S07.E04: Help

[Joe Hellandback]

The Good; A real heartwarmer/wrencher, some lovely stuff here. And Willow visiting Tara's grave. Plus Amanda!

Best line; Buffy the Student Counsellor; "...and all that shi...guff!"

Women good/men bad; The loathsome SDH boys who want to sacrifice Cassie for their own greed! They need a damn good killing! Cassies dad is a drunk but loves his daughter and would never hurt her. Cassie's friend Mike thinks making boy's crazy is part of girl's job.

Jeez!; Threatening Cassie with the meat cleaver, ugh!

Kinky dinky;

Xander thinks Googling is some form of sexual act? Cassie speaks of her unused thighs in her poetry.

Captain Subtext; One student fears that they're gay but it might just be an excuse to date Buffy. Willow tells Xander she's 'over you sweetie'. However she also used to write Doogie Howser fanfic (Alysson Hannigan now starring with Doogie Howser himself aka Neil Harris in 'How I met your mother' wonder if that was on the cards when they wrote this?)

Guantanamo Bay; Buffy threatens the student with coins in his locker who reminds me a LOT of Jonathon.

Apocalypses; 7,

Scoobies in bondage: Buffy: 8 Giles: 4 Cordy: 5 Will: 4 Jenny: 1 Angel: 4 Oz: 1 Faith: 3 Joyce: 1 Wes: 1 Xander; 2 Dawn; 4

Scoobies knocked out: Buffy: 19 Giles: 12 Cordy: 6 Xander: 14 Will: 8 Jenny: 2 Angel: 6 Oz: 3 Faith: 1 Joyce: 3 Wes: 1 Anya;5 Dawn; 4 Tara; 1

Kills: 1 vamp and 1 demon for Buffy Buffy: 109 vamps, 60 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human, 1 god.

Cordy: 3 vamps, a demon Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.

Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1 a demon, Anya: 1 vamp and 1 a demon Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons Spike; 8 vamps and 6 demons Buffybot; 2 vamps Tara; 1 demon Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon Scoobies go evil: Giles: 1 Cordy: 1 Will: 3 Jenny: 1 Angel: 1 Oz: 1 Joyce: 1 Xander: 4 Anya; 1 Dawn; 1 Buffy; 1

Alternate scoobies: Buffy: 8 Giles: 4 Cordy: 1 Will: 5 Jenny: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 2 Joyce: 2 Xander: 4 Tara; 1 Dawn;1 Spike; 1 Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 12 Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara

Sunnydale deaths; poor Cassie but like Joyce through natural causes 99

Total number of scoobies: 4, welcome Willow back to the gang Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?) Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula? Scoobies shot: Giles: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 4 Riley; 1 Buffy; 1 Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost: Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes? Cordy: 1? Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 1 possible, Dracula(?) Angel: 1;Buffy Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?) Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley Xander: 2; Faith, Anya Willow: 2;Oz and Tara Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vampwhore Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya Anya; 2 Spike and Xander

Dawn in peril; 12

Dawn the bashful virgin; 9

What the fanficcers thought; Read a lovely one once where in order to honour Cassie's memory Dawn takes Mike to the winter dance in her place and they have a wonderful time.

Questions and observations; Amanda for the first time, by a long chalk my favourite potential, I think she's just wonderful. Surely Tara's gravestone should have an epitaph? Glenn Mornoshower who plays Cassie's dad is one of those actors you see EVERYWHERE in films and TV. Buffy borrows Dawn's clothes, surprised they're not too tall for her. Dawn's dialogue seems very Law & Order, a show MT guest-starred on. Buffy resents being referred to as Dawn's sister just as she didn't like being known as Willow's friend at university. Wouldn't it make more sense for Spike to tackle the demon who he can hurt rather than the boys whom he can't? Marks out of 10; 7/10 ( this mark becoming something of a habit in season 7)

2 out of 4 found this helpful. Permalink

8/10

[Halting Hex]

Shut UP, Cassie.  Seriously, just STFU and die, already.

Incredibly boring cheap attempt at emotional manipulation, which makes no sense once the "surprise" is revealed…if Cassie really had a deadly congenital heart defect, how could she be unaware of it?  What kind of mother wouldn't take Cassie to specialist after specialist, get her test after test, looking for a solution?  Oh, but then Cassie wouldn't have "visions" of her death for her to bore Buffy (and us) with, never saying in two words where she uses twenty (or two hundred) instead.

Seriously, how tough it to say "I'm worried I'm going to die", FFS?  Shut UP!

And when she does shut up, it's so that Rebecca Rand Kirshner can throw a crumb to the Spuffy 'shippers ("Someday she will tell you"…that you're a disgusting piece of shit and she wishes she'd never met you?  Probably not, alas) or waste time having not one but two of her teen-angst poems read aloud on network television.  Personally, I'd be too embarrassed that I ever wrote that shit to even think of exhuming it (this is, after all, the very same episode where Willow shows justified reticence over her own adventures in teen poetry), but apparently Kirshner has no such compunctions.  Gee, thanks, Bec!

(Maybe if she copyrighted the poems separately from the script, she made some extra $$ by including them?  I don't know the law on this, I admit.)

Buffy's morals and sense of Slayer duty continue to decline when, after rescuing Cassie from Peter Nichols and his Red Robes, she just lets the attempted murderers stroll off.  Well, once you've spent an entire year fucking an actual mass-murderer, these kids don't seem so bad, I guess.  Still, we've come a loooooong way down from Reptile Boy, where Richard and Tom went to prison for "15,000 years", haven't we?  (And this episode will look even lamer as television when Veronica Mars knocks the whole "jocks wearing robes" trope out of the ballpark in "Clash of the Tritons", next season. "Say 'repressed homosexuality'!" Heh.)

Meanwhile, I still have the vomitous memory of going online after this one and seeing brain-damaged Jossholes comparing Cassie's inane blitherings about her cousins to Prophecy Girl and "Giles, I'm 16 years old.  I-I don't want to die."  Blasphemers! Grrr…

Marks, 2/10, because we got some nice Xillow, because it's blessedly Anya-free, because we got a useful bit of trivia on Tara's birthdate, and because it's amusing to learn that Willow wrote Doogie Houser, M.D. fanfic, given that nobody at the time had a clue that Alyson would shortly be spending nine seasons co-starring with Neil Patrick Harris.

But still, slow and stupid and boring as hell and miles away from being anything resembling an actual good episode.  People often say that S7 got off to a strong start.  Not I, team.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎08‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 11:02 PM, Halting Hex said:

Shut UP, Cassie.  Seriously, just STFU and die, already.

Incredibly boring cheap attempt at emotional manipulation, which makes no sense once the "surprise" is revealed…if Cassie really had a deadly congenital heart defect, how could she be unaware of it?  What kind of mother wouldn't take Cassie to specialist after specialist, get her test after test, looking for a solution?  Oh, but then Cassie wouldn't have "visions" of her death for her to bore Buffy (and us) with, never saying in two words where she uses twenty (or two hundred) instead.

Seriously, how tough it to say "I'm worried I'm going to die", FFS?  Shut UP!

And when she does shut up, it's so that Rebecca Rand Kirshner can throw a crumb to the Spuffy 'shippers ("Someday she will tell you"…that you're a disgusting piece of shit and she wishes she'd never met you?  Probably not, alas) or waste time having not one but two of her teen-angst poems read aloud on network television.  Personally, I'd be too embarrassed that I ever wrote that shit to even think of exhuming it (this is, after all, the very same episode where Willow shows justified reticence over her own adventures in teen poetry), but apparently Kirshner has no such compunctions.  Gee, thanks, Bec!

(Maybe if she copyrighted the poems separately from the script, she made some extra $$ by including them?  I don't know the law on this, I admit.)

Buffy's morals and sense of Slayer duty continue to decline when, after rescuing Cassie from Peter Nichols and his Red Robes, she just lets the attempted murderers stroll off.  Well, once you've spent an entire year fucking an actual mass-murderer, these kids don't seem so bad, I guess.  Still, we've come a loooooong way down from Reptile Boy, where Richard and Tom went to prison for "15,000 years", haven't we?  (And this episode will look even lamer as television when Veronica Mars knocks the whole "jocks wearing robes" trope out of the ballpark in "Clash of the Tritons", next season. "Say 'repressed homosexuality'!" Heh.)

Meanwhile, I still have the vomitous memory of going online after this one and seeing brain-damaged Jossholes comparing Cassie's inane blitherings about her cousins to Prophecy Girl and "Giles, I'm 16 years old.  I-I don't want to die."  Blasphemers! Grrr…

Marks, 2/10, because we got some nice Xillow, because it's blessedly Anya-free, because we got a useful bit of trivia on Tara's birthdate, and because it's amusing to learn that Willow wrote Doogie Houser, M.D. fanfic, given that nobody at the time had a clue that Alyson would shortly be spending nine seasons co-starring with Neil Patrick Harris.

But still, slow and stupid and boring as hell and miles away from being anything resembling an actual good episode.  People often say that S7 got off to a strong start.  Not I, team.

You're so cold! I bet you never clapped to save Tinkerbell! I always figured Buffy turns the red robes over to the SDPD for kidnapping and once again, ensouled Spike is not culpable for anything unsoulled Spike did. It's nice to see the gang try to help an ordinary SDH pupil and it sure is a kicker that they fail

[Halting Hex]

11 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

You're so cold! I bet you never clapped to save Tinkerbell!

I hated Tinkerbell!  Long before Peter was trying to get us to revive her.

And I thought E.T. was a brilliant and moving film, all the way up until he dies…and then they do the hokey "Tinkerbell" revival, and it all goes to shit.  (And Spielberg steals the movie's best moment, the one bike flying in front of the moon at night, and ruins it with that horde of kids all flying.  Ugh.)

11 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

I always figured Buffy turns the red robes over to the SDPD for kidnapping

Nothing in the slightest to indicate this, and Buffy is literally walking away from them the last time we see them:

Quote

BUFFY (to Cassie): C'mon.

PETER:  Help! Help me, please! I'm bleeding.

BUFFY (walking away): Sorry. My office hours are 10 to 4.

 

11 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

ensouled Spike is not culpable for anything unsoulled Spike did.

Really?  The demon's still there.  Souls can go away, we've seen it.  And maybe Spike shouldn't be killing people in the first place, his attempt to be all "I have a SOOOOOOUL now!  I'm different" aside.  I mean, I've been sorry for doing bad things (not mass-murder, but still) myself.  Doesn't mean I didn't do them, though.

Edited November 10, 2018 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

3 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

ensouled Spike is not culpable for anything unsoulled Spike did

It's kinda weird, you know, when ensouled Angel bears the responsibility for the things soulless Angelus has done, but ensouled Spikey is not culpable for anything his unsouled self did. Angel  always referred to Angelus' atrocities as something he has done, not some other guy. Angel's journey both in Buffy and Angel is about redemption for the past sins and righting the past wrongs. I don't like Angel but at least he felt actual remorse. Do we see Spike regretting the killings of thousands of innocent people? I don't. Angel and Spike are both vampires. They both did terrible things. How come Angel bear the full responsibility for the past crimes and Spike don't? 

[Joe Hellandback]

22 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

I hated Tinkerbell!  Long before Peter was trying to get us to revive her.

And I thought E.T. was a brilliant and moving film, all the way up until he dies…and then they do the hokey "Tinkerbell" revival, and it all goes to shit.  (And Spielberg steals the movie's best moment, the one bike flying in front of the moon at night, and ruins it with that horde of kids all flying.  Ugh.)

Nothing in the slightest to indicate this, and Buffy is literally walking away from them the last time we see them:

 

Really?  The demon's still there.  Souls can go away, we've seen it.  And maybe Spike shouldn't be killing people in the first place, his attempt to be all "I have a SOOOOOOUL now!  I'm different" aside.  I mean, I've been sorry for doing bad things (not mass-murder, but still) myself.  Doesn't mean I didn't do them, though.

Hmmmm, let's see? Oh yeah, Erika Eleniak is in ET (before she and Drew Barrymore went Playboy) and also in Baywatch with Charisma so in 2.

She can catch up with them later, she doesn't probably carry handcuffs unless it's time for sexy bondage fun.

 No, believe me I'm no Spuffy fan and kept having to say to folks at The Bronze he was evil when they kept trying to defend him but once he gets his soul back all sins forgiven, he's no more responsible than Angel was for Angelus.  

19 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

It's kinda weird, you know, when ensouled Angel bears the responsibility for the things soulless Angelus has done, but ensouled Spikey is not culpable for anything his unsouled self did. Angel  always referred to Angelus' atrocities as something he has done, not some other guy. Angel's journey both in Buffy and Angel is about redemption for the past sins and righting the past wrongs. I don't like Angel but at least he felt actual remorse. Do we see Spike regretting the killings of thousands of innocent people? I don't. Angel and Spike are both vampires. They both did terrible things. How come Angel bear the full responsibility for the past crimes and Spike don't? 

Spike does bear the responsibility, he is practically insane with remorse when he cares about all his sins. But as he later points out to Angel;

Spoiler

he actively went out and got his soul back whilst it was forced on Angelus to make him Angel. 

[lembergwatcher]

3 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

he is practically insane with remorse when he cares about all his sins

Was it actual remorse or just the First playing games with Spike's mind?

[Halting Hex]

7 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Was it actual remorse or just the First playing games with Spike's mind?

A good question.  I don't recall hearing much actual remorse, just babble associated with his dissociative state.

[illdoc]

And, Angel is still remorseful, a hundred years after getting his soul. Whereas Spike seems to be over it in a couple of weeks.

[Joe Hellandback]

13 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

A good question.  I don't recall hearing much actual remorse, just babble associated with his dissociative state.

No, Spike felt remorse long before the First got to him, I mean he tried to cut his soul out the memory of what he had done haunted him so badly, he tries to persuade Buffy

Spoiler

to kill him 

 

13 hours ago, illdoc said:

And, Angel is still remorseful, a hundred years after getting his soul. Whereas Spike seems to be over it in a couple of weeks.

Because he has the support of Buffy and the rest of the Scoobs, he has a mission and as he later tells Angel he actively decided to recover his soul and fought for it whilst Angelus had his forced upon him.