S07.E02: Beneath You

[Joe Hellandback]

The Good; All the Spike/Buffy stuff and some nice scenes with Xander and a potential love interest (maybe she wasn't demony enough for him?). Also love Dawn threatening Spike

The Bad; More dead potentials, ugh! Stupid looking worm, I expected something more Tremors (Kevin Bacon is in Will and Grace with Seth Green so in 2) . Also it attacks Nancy in her house but then just goes away? The mad Spike and Buffy scene at the end goes on too long.

Best line; Spike; "When did your little sister become unbelievably scary?"

Women good/men bad; Anya still tempting the scorned

Jeez!; Spike punching Anya isn't nice

Kinky dinky; Xander lists unwanted pregnancy as one thing Buffy will have to help the high school pupils with.

Spoiler

and something both she and Dawn will later experience

Spike refers to 'Getting it hard and servicing the girl'. Anya exclaims "Oh penis!"

Captain Subtext; The little look Spike and Xander give each other when Nancy wonders if any Scoobies haven't slept with one another. Once again virginal Dawn is threatened by a huge phallic symbol. Anya calls her latest dupe 'Honey'.

Guantanamo Bay; Buffy knows that a bastinado is a hardwood club used to torture prisoners in Turkey. Giles would be proud.

Apocalypses; 7,

Scoobies in bondage: Buffy: 8 Giles: 4 Cordy: 5 Will: 4 Jenny: 1 Angel: 4 Oz: 1 Faith: 3 Joyce: 1 Wes: 1 Xander; 2 Dawn; 4

Scoobies knocked out: Buffy: 19 Giles: 12 Cordy: 6 Xander: 14 Will: 8 Jenny: 2 Angel: 6 Oz: 3 Faith: 1 Joyce: 3 Wes: 1 Anya;5 Dawn; 4 Tara; 1

Kills: Buffy: 108 vamps, 58 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human, 1 god. Cordy: 3 vamps, a demon Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human. Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1 a demon, Anya: 1 vamp and 1 a demon Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons Spike; 8 vamps and 6 demons Buffybot; 2 vamps Tara; 1 demon Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon

Scoobies go evil: Giles: 1 Cordy: 1 Will: 3 Jenny: 1 Angel: 1 Oz: 1 Joyce: 1 Xander: 4 Anya; 1 Dawn; 1 Buffy; 1

Alternate scoobies: Buffy: 8 Giles: 4 Cordy: 1 Will: 5 Jenny: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 2 Joyce: 2 Xander: 4 Tara; 1 Dawn;1 Spike; 1 Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 12 Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara

Sunnydale deaths; 94

Total number of scoobies: the Dawnster is finally part of the Scoobies, about time too. Great line when Dawn says assemble the gang and Xander points out that the 3 of them ARE the gang. Xander, Buffy, Dawn

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?) Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot: Giles: 2 Angel: 3 Oz: 4 Riley; 1 Buffy; 1 Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost: Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes? Cordy: 1? Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 1 possible, Dracula(?) Angel: 1;Buffy Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?) Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley Xander: 2; Faith, Anya Willow: 2;Oz and Tara Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vampwhore Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya Anya; 2 Spike and Xander

Dawn in peril; 11

Dawn the bashful virgin; 9

Questions and observations; Lovely moment with Xander and Buffy in the car when he tells her the SDH kids are lucky to have her. The worm rather reminds me of an old horror film call 'Blood Beach' (John Saxon is in NOES with Robert Englund, Robert is in Charmed with CC who is in Buffy so in 3). Spike has his old hair back, he gradually resembles himself more and more over the season. Love Buffy's Daisy Duke line "Where I go to get my scorn on!" (John Schneider is in Smallville with James Marsters so to Buffy in 2) Always thought Nancy was the same girl who was a White-hat in The Wish but she wasn't. Nice pun on 'Beneath You', remember 'Fool for Love'. Spike assumes the same Christ-like pose he showed us in Restless.

Marks out of 10; 7/10

[Jack Shaftoe]

Dawn's threat is so stupid "Oh, hey Spike, first rape is consequences-free! Try it again though and I might get pissed for real." How scary. I don't believe for a second that Xander wouldn't try to stake Spike on sight either. Or that Spike would risk it, the whole scene is absurd.

Spike, Mr. I-Am-Not-a-Misogynist punches Anya in the face because she might reveal his shiny new soul a bit earlier. Yes, no unfortunate implications there, no sir.

JM chewed so much scenery I am there was any left.

[Halting Hex]

11 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Dawn's threat is so stupid "Oh, hey Spike, first rape is consequences-free! Try it again though and I might get pissed for real."

Goes right along with Buffy telling Ben that "it's okay to try to sacrifice my sister once!  But you tell Glory that if she ever tries it again…"

Spoiler

 Or her telling Caleb "Okay, so Xander's got another eye.  But you only get one free pass, you know."

I love the taste of empty threats in the morning.

And I remain flabbergasted that Spike managed to re-dye and re-gel his hair while he was fucking insane.  Showing how completely up the ass of the Spikettes Joss was by this point…oooooooh, don't change Spike's hair!  We love the calcified look of the platinum helmet!  He should wear it forever and ever!  So it was left to wardrobe to try and change Spike's look, at least a little.  Hence the blue shirt with the three-quarter sleeves.  Which I've never been a fan of, to be honest.

And let's look at the chronology of Xander/Spike interactions:

6.17-Xander beats Spike up, only stopping when Buffy collapses

6.18-Xander beats Spike longer and harder, only stopping when Buffy and Anya call him off.  Spike sticks the knife in deeper by bragging about his having fucked Buffy all over town.

6.19-Spike tries to rape Buffy.  Only Buffy's pleas stop Xander from going after Spike.  Spike leaves town.

6.20 through 7.01-no interaction, Spike not present for most of this time.

7.02-Xander sees Spike for the first time since the rape…and barely whispers a complaint to Buffy.  Geez, Xan, did Anya wish your balls into the cornfield while we weren't looking, or what?

And we get yet another fucking useless Willow/Giles scene, where Willow worries the group won't accept her back, and both she and Giles are too stupid to suggest that she use "the ingenious speaking tube" to call B/X/D up and find out how they're feeling.  Gotta keep the "suspense" for next episode, don't you know?

Still, it has its good points.  Xander tells Anya she doesn't get to use the non-wedding as an excuse for the rest of her life.  Buffy smacks Spike around, even if the "fight" is static and lacks, well, punch.  Nick Brendon and Kaarina Aufranc (Nancy) have very nice chemistry…I wouldn't mind seeing her come back.  And it's well-paced; we meet the monster at the end of the teaser, not after farting around for the first act.  

11 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

JM chewed so much scenery I am there was any left.

Well, he had his enabler (Joss) telling him "this was supposed to be your episode" and "I'm going to save you" and then rewriting the crucial church scene to fluff Spike's pale white ass.  Petrie's original was fucking kick-ass ("How you like me now?"), whereas Whedon rewrote it to give Spike excuses (ohh, Sparky never wanted that nasty sex! His wuvv is twue!!) and damaged what should have been a sharp climax.

"Can we rest Buffy? Can we rest?"  Could you rest six feet under?  Please?

Marks:  7/10 as written (originally); 6/10 as aired.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎06‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:40 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

Dawn's threat is so stupid "Oh, hey Spike, first rape is consequences-free! Try it again though and I might get pissed for real." How scary. I don't believe for a second that Xander wouldn't try to stake Spike on sight either. Or that Spike would risk it, the whole scene is absurd.

Spike, Mr. I-Am-Not-a-Misogynist punches Anya in the face because she might reveal his shiny new soul a bit earlier. Yes, no unfortunate implications there, no sir.

JM chewed so much scenery I am there was any left.

Because Buffy forgives him or at least tolerates him as a useful ally and they spare him for her sake if nothing else. And Anya can take it (and dish it out) 

16 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Goes right along with Buffy telling Ben that "it's okay to try to sacrifice my sister once!  But you tell Glory that if she ever tries it again…"

  Hide contents

 Or her telling Caleb "Okay, so Xander's got another eye.  But you only get one free pass, you know."

I love the taste of empty threats in the morning.

And I remain flabbergasted that Spike managed to re-dye and re-gel his hair while he was fucking insane.  Showing how completely up the ass of the Spikettes Joss was by this point…oooooooh, don't change Spike's hair!  We love the calcified look of the platinum helmet!  He should wear it forever and ever!  So it was left to wardrobe to try and change Spike's look, at least a little.  Hence the blue shirt with the three-quarter sleeves.  Which I've never been a fan of, to be honest.

And let's look at the chronology of Xander/Spike interactions:

6.17-Xander beats Spike up, only stopping when Buffy collapses

6.18-Xander beats Spike longer and harder, only stopping when Buffy and Anya call him off.  Spike sticks the knife in deeper by bragging about his having fucked Buffy all over town.

6.19-Spike tries to rape Buffy.  Only Buffy's pleas stop Xander from going after Spike.  Spike leaves town.

6.20 through 7.01-no interaction, Spike not present for most of this time.

7.02-Xander sees Spike for the first time since the rape…and barely whispers a complaint to Buffy.  Geez, Xan, did Anya wish your balls into the cornfield while we weren't looking, or what?

And we get yet another fucking useless Willow/Giles scene, where Willow worries the group won't accept her back, and both she and Giles are too stupid to suggest that she use "the ingenious speaking tube" to call B/X/D up and find out how they're feeling.  Gotta keep the "suspense" for next episode, don't you know?

Still, it has its good points.  Xander tells Anya she doesn't get to use the non-wedding as an excuse for the rest of her life.  Buffy smacks Spike around, even if the "fight" is static and lacks, well, punch.  Nick Brendon and Kaarina Aufranc (Nancy) have very nice chemistry…I wouldn't mind seeing her come back.  And it's well-paced; we meet the monster at the end of the teaser, not after farting around for the first act.  

Well, he had his enabler (Joss) telling him "this was supposed to be your episode" and "I'm going to save you" and then rewriting the crucial church scene to fluff Spike's pale white ass.  Petrie's original was fucking kick-ass ("How you like me now?"), whereas Whedon rewrote it to give Spike excuses (ohh, Sparky never wanted that nasty sex! His wuvv is twue!!) and damaged what should have been a sharp climax.

"Can we rest Buffy? Can we rest?"  Could you rest six feet under?  Please?

Marks:  7/10 as written (originally); 6/10 as aired.

Buffy couldn't bring herself to kill Ben, again she's only human. Spike's hair is probably all that is holding him together. Again Xander does what is best for Buffy as does Dawn. Will is probably still to awkward to phone, I like the Willow/Giles scenes, if ever there was a time for Gillow this is it.

Six Feet Under is a great show.  

[Jack Shaftoe]

A really useful ally who has stabbed them in the back at least three times. I wonder what an unreliable ally would be in the Scoobies' book.

[Halting Hex]

Awkward phone call >>> full-blown panic attack.  

Spoiler

As we shall see next episode.

Unless she really was using her anxieties as a way to get Giles into bed.  Hadn't thought of that one, I admit.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎07‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 4:53 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

A really useful ally who has stabbed them in the back at least three times. I wonder what an unreliable ally would be in the Scoobies' book.

But whom they trusted to look after Dawn and cure Buffy of the Geeks dope and has been loyal to them since late s5?

23 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Awkward phone call >>> full-blown panic attack.  

  Hide contents

As we shall see next episode.

Unless she really was using her anxieties as a way to get Giles into bed.  Hadn't thought of that one, I admit.

Maybe she did? Sure there's a fanfic somewhere. Maybe he did put her in his dungeon?

[Jack Shaftoe]

Quote

But whom they trusted to look after Dawn

You mean like the times when he had to protect Dawn from Glory who was vastly stronger than him or the even more hilarious idea of him protecting her from human villains like Warren? Yes, the only this proves is that the writers shoehorned Spike in a truly ridiculous fashion, not that the Scoobies were right to trust this "ally".

[Halting Hex]

And, as noted, because of the whole James/Michelle/underage-lust backstage worries, it had been a loooong time since Spike had "protected" Dawn, anyhow.  Buffy doesn't get the "brilliant" idea of taking her 15-year-old virginal sister to her attempted rapist's place for "safekeeping"* until after Spike has left town, it turns out.  And it's Clem who ends up Dawn-sitting, presumably because James C. Leary (Clem's actor) has never written any songs about how "dangerous" MT's burgeoning sexuality is to him.  At least, as far as I know.

*-Hey, you know how people have noted that taking Dawn to Spike's makes no sense not only because Spike can't be trusted, but because Warren has Spike's crypt under video surveillance and Buffy knows that?  Well, what if Buffy was actually counting on both of those?  Let Spike work off those bathroom-floor frustrations by giving Dawn her first taste of vampire-loving (she did go parking with one, after all) and Buffy gets it all on tape!  Goes on the shelf right next to the Spankya hook-up Buffy saw on the monitor in Entropy…

Edited November 8, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎08‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 5:33 PM, Jack Shaftoe said:

You mean like the times when he had to protect Dawn from Glory who was vastly stronger than him or the even more hilarious idea of him protecting her from human villains like Warren? Yes, the only this proves is that the writers shoehorned Spike in a truly ridiculous fashion, not that the Scoobies were right to trust this "ally".

No, Willow aside Spike was the strongest Scoob and as we see with Intervention Spike is prepared to suffer and die to protect her. 

On ‎08‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 11:17 PM, Halting Hex said:

And, as noted, because of the whole James/Michelle/underage-lust backstage worries, it had been a loooong time since Spike had "protected" Dawn, anyhow.  Buffy doesn't get the "brilliant" idea of taking her 15-year-old virginal sister to her attempted rapist's place for "safekeeping"* until after Spike has left town, it turns out.  And it's Clem who ends up Dawn-sitting, presumably because James C. Leary (Clem's actor) has never written any songs about how "dangerous" MT's burgeoning sexuality is to him.  At least, as far as I know.

*-Hey, you know how people have noted that taking Dawn to Spike's makes no sense not only because Spike can't be trusted, but because Warren has Spike's crypt under video surveillance and Buffy knows that?  Well, what if Buffy was actually counting on both of those?  Let Spike work off those bathroom-floor frustrations by giving Dawn her first taste of vampire-loving (she did go parking with one, after all) and Buffy gets it all on tape!  Goes on the shelf right next to the Spankya hook-up Buffy saw on the monitor in Entropy…

I doubt that was a factor if James had a case of 'Jennifer fever', plus by the time Buffy sent Dawn to Spike Warren's camera's were disabled.  

And it seems to be Dawn who's the voyeur she's always spying on couples. 

[lembergwatcher]

Nancy and Xander would've been a nice couple IMO.

[lembergwatcher]

On 11/7/2018 at 7:58 PM, Halting Hex said:

Unless she really was using her anxieties as a way to get Giles into bed.  Hadn't thought of that one, I admit.

You mean, first she tortures him (Grave), then she shags him? 

[Joe Hellandback]

6 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

You mean, first she tortures him (Grave), then she shags him? 

This is Buffy, kink is the norm, has Buffy ever had a boyfriend she didn't beat up? I did always wonder what Giles and Willow got up to on their long holiday together, Willow seems disappointed she didn't put her in his dungeon. 

[lembergwatcher]

On 9/15/2020 at 1:06 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

I did always wonder what Giles and Willow got up to on their long holiday together

Willow & GILES??? That's disgusting... It's almost like having sex with one of the parents...

[Halting Hex]

It is canon that Willow had "such" a crush on the G-Man back in high school, as she recounts in Where the Wild Things Are.  (She even had his picture in her locker, as seen in I Robot, You Jane.)  So, if you think that's "disgusting", perhaps you should take it up with Ms. Rosenberg herself?

(prepares lemberg's memorial…)

[lembergwatcher]

🙂 G-Man was slightly younger when Willow was at high school. Besides, he didn't apologize for "rank arrogant amateur".

[Joe Hellandback]

On 10/15/2020 at 11:42 AM, lembergwatcher said:

Willow & GILES??? That's disgusting... It's almost like having sex with one of the parents...

"Uh oh, daddy's home!"

[Halting Hex]

On 10/16/2020 at 7:50 PM, lembergwatcher said:

🙂 G-Man was slightly younger when Willow was at high school.

As was Willow.  You find 41/16 preferable to 47/22?  Many would disagree.

(Including the state of California.)

Quote

Besides, he didn't apologize for "rank arrogant amateur".

Quite true.  Not seeing what that has to do with any age-related issues, though.

[lembergwatcher]

9 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

Not seeing what that has to do with any age-related issues

Nothing. It has everything to do with my dislike of a man. Post-season 2 Giles is such an embarrasment... JMO, of course.

In a time when everything writers cared about was Willow's sexuality (and to some extent her magic), when Oz was just a distant memory (Willow never mentioned him after New Moon Rising) and any attempts of re-creating old Xillow glory days were slaughtered mercilessly, I don't get why was Giles (of all male characters) given the privilege of spending the biggest amount of screen-time with Willow in the seventh season...

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by lembergwatcher

[lembergwatcher]

OK, I agree sometimes they look quite cute.

But Giles is a dick anyway. He's beneath Willow.

 

[Halting Hex]

16 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

(Willow never mentioned [Oz] after New Moon Rising)

Well, she does dream of him in Restless.  So I'd date that as the endpoint, even if she doesn't explicitly say the name.

[lembergwatcher]

On 9/15/2020 at 1:06 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

This is Buffy, kink is the norm, has Buffy ever had a boyfriend she didn't beat up? I did always wonder what Giles and Willow got up to on their long holiday together, Willow seems disappointed she didn't put her in his dungeon.

Buffy didn't beat up Owen and Scott AFAIK.

Faith: first she fucks him, the she kills him. Willow: first she kills him, then she fucks him.

No wonder both girls had such irreconcilable differences... 

[Halting Hex]

Buffy didn't beat up Riley;  that's just a training session in A New Man.  She's concerned she was rough on him, but he's fine.  (He's certainly "ready for duty" in the next episode, as we see.)  He tries to get her to lash out at him in Into the Woods, but she refuses.

OTOH, Buffy knocks Giles unconscious in Prophecy Girl and Bad Eggs, and smacks him in the chops in Passion as well.  Bamp-chicka-bamp-bamp?

(And let's not forget her climbing all over Jenny in Innocence…)

[Joe Hellandback]

On 12/4/2020 at 11:57 AM, lembergwatcher said:

Buffy didn't beat up Owen and Scott AFAIK.

Faith: first she fucks him, the she kills him. Willow: first she kills him, then she fucks him.

No wonder both girls had such irreconcilable differences... 

But she never got to the physical stage with either?

On 12/6/2020 at 1:30 AM, Halting Hex said:

Buffy didn't beat up Riley;  that's just a training session in A New Man.  She's concerned she was rough on him, but he's fine.  (He's certainly "ready for duty" in the next episode, as we see.)  He tries to get her to lash out at him in Into the Woods, but she refuses.

OTOH, Buffy knocks Giles unconscious in Prophecy Girl and Bad Eggs, and smacks him in the chops in Passion as well.  Bamp-chicka-bamp-bamp?

(And let's not forget her climbing all over Jenny in Innocence…)

Doesn't she smack him in 'Out of My Mind'? And rough up him and Angel in the ep where they fight?

[Halting Hex]

So, I was checking out the transcript (I'd forgotten Rocky the chomped Yorkie's name) and…wow.  I knew that Previously… segment was stupidly long ("helped" by their including the entire segment from 7.01, plus new "highlights" from that crap-fest), but I had no idea there were 19 separate clips.  JFC, Editors.  Take it easy.

And, whilst scrolling, I came upon this:

Quote

 

DAWN: I thought you hated [attending] Sunnydale [High].

XANDER: Yes, and no, with an emphasis on the yes. But, at least then I was dating.

BUFFY: You could be dating now.

 

Yo, X?  That's what we call A Hint.  You've been waiting all this time for Buffy to give you a cue?  Get on that, bro.

And yes, one could quote your younger self and say "Oh, I don't know, Xander…frying pan/fire?", but I have to think that Buffy is at least a step up from Anya.  Plus, as noted, Xander hasn't fully gotten over the Buffster yet, IMO, so he might as well check that box and see if it was worth the wait.

I'd understand if he felt differently, though…

NOT FROM THE EPISODE:

Quote

 

After Spike's entry, Buffy takes him aside, leaving the others in the living room.

NANCY:  Who's that?

XANDER:  The "reformed" (makes finger-quote) serial killer that Buffy used to date.  After she dumped him, he tried to rape her.

NANCY (shocked): What?

XANDER:  Don't worry, it's just another monster deal.  Vampires are real, Buffy has super-powers, Buffy kills them.  Unless they're so hot, of course.

DAWN (cautioning): Xander…

XANDER:  Oh, hush, Green Energy Girl.  (Off Nancy's look.) Dawn's not real either, just a recently-transformed hoax.  Check it out for yourself.

Nancy attempts to pass her hand through Dawn, half-expecting not to make contact.  In actuality, she inadvertently smacks Dawn on the cheek.

DAWN:  Ow!

NANCY: Oh, sorry!

Xander chuckles.

DAWN:  I hate when he does that.

 

 

Edited January 16 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

1 hour ago, Halting Hex said:

Quote

BUFFY: You could be dating now.

 

Yo, X?  That's what we call A Hint.  You've been waiting all this time for Buffy to give you a cue?  Get on that, bro.

So Buffy wants sex, Spike is temporarily unavailable and Xander has to, figuratively speaking, pick up Peroxide's leftovers? Besides, chances are Buffy has some sort of demonic STDs thanks to her, you know, "unconventional preferences" and it can end very-very bad for Xander. So bad in fact, that magic syphilis from Chumash spirits may look like a fun memory... 

[Halting Hex]

On 1/16/2023 at 3:46 PM, lembergwatcher said:

Besides, chances are Buffy has some sort of demonic STDs

I don't know; it's been about 8 months since Buffy had her last injection of Ice Penis, after all.  (Riley comes to town right after Buffy's birthday, remember.)

And while Buffy's immune system isn't impregnable (it collapses in Killed by Death, resulting in her being the only one in the group who caught the flu, even though I think that's more about Buffy running herself ragged trying to find Angel), she does have a healing factor, as seen in that same S2 episode (as well as her not bruising from Ted's smack).

So IMO it's likely that any cases of Gone-arrhea or Stiff-illis* she might have caught have worked themselves out of the system by now.

*-neither of these 'vampire STD" puns are my work. Darn it.