S01.E10: Bluebeard's Castle

[formerlyfreedom]

Beck's deepest truths are revealed; Joe pushes the limits of what he'll do for love.

Season Finale! Airing Sunday, 11/11/18.

[Spartan Girl]

Surprise, bitch! Candace is alive! Holy fuck, what a twist!

 Boy, does it scare me that I felt nothing for Beck throughout this whole episode. Yeah she didn't deserve to be stalked and murdered, but when she was screaming at Joe at how he "used people that looked down on him", I was just like, "Um, looked in a mirror much?" Yes, she never murdered anyone but still...

I'm more disturbed that Paco was an accessory to Beck's murder than the actual murder. Well, at least Ron's dead...

Sign me up for season two!

Edited November 12, 2018 by Spartan Girl

[DanaMB]

I cannot believe my power went out right when they came back from the last commercial break!!! I'm so pissed.  I saw Joe grab Beck and then it came back on when Candace showed up. Unbelievable. Thank god for the 1:00a.m. re-airing. I can't wait for next season. I wonder if we have to wait a year.

[dubbel zout]

6 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I'm more disturbed that Paco was an accessory to Beck's murder than the actual murder. Well, at least Ron's dead...

When Joe told him a fresh start wasn't a bad thing, Paco replied, "For you, too." Either Paco becomes Joe Jr. or he returns to blackmail Joe. I hope the latter. Or maybe the PI finds something to connect Joe to Peach's death. 

According to Google, there's very little DNA in urine, so you can't ID someone that way. Joe lucked out there if he didn't leave fingerprints on the jar he peed into.

[Madding crowd]

I found this episode very disturbing. I didn’t want Beck to die and while Penn makes a good Joe, I can’t root for a man who stalks and murders a woman. Sad for Paco and what he has seen in his short life. Since I’m a writer myself, I enjoyed seeing the writing storyline. 

[LittleIggy]

When you are fighting for your life, don’t hit the homicidal person in the head once, hoping he’ll stay out long enough for you to get away. Hit that motherfucker enough times that you know he won’t be getting up!

I didn’t want Beck, as dumb as she was, to die. I never did really like Paco. Now I know why. Can’t wait to see what S2 holds.

[lanter]

Quote

When you are fighting for your life, don’t hit the homicidal person in the head once, hoping he’ll stay out long enough for you to get away. Hit that motherfucker enough times that you know he won’t be getting up!

I went into this series with low expectations. With few exceptions (eg UnReal) I have never found Lifetime Original Series to be that compelling/good. This show definitely took me off guard. Between network shows, paid cable, and streaming series, I am impressed by anything that stands out from the pack. "You" did that. My thoughts on the season finale are:  1) Well, that Is the most likable Beck has ever been. 2) Damn girl, have you not ever watched a horror movie? When you knock a psycho out, you keep knocking until you see brain matter. 3) WTF!!! I was not surprised to see Beck get taken out, but Candace showing up was unexpected. The next season is going to be awesome. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by lanter

[Lady Calypso]

Wow, a LOT happened in this episode. 

I will say that I grew suspicious of Candace's fate last episode, when they didn't bother showing her death scene. I had briefly thought that they would maybe have a twist where she's alive, but wasn't sure how that would work. With Mooney being a surprise alive person from Joe's life, I guess it was leading up to Candace. And he seems to be surprised too, so I guess he did try to kill her and she survived it?

I actually thought this was Elizabeth Lail's best work. I really felt for Beck and her absolute terror. Is she the best person? No. She can be a real shitty person, actually. But did she deserve any of this? No, because Joe's a complete sociopath. Beck seemed to realize her own flaws while locked in the cage and I am glad she got the upper hand on Joe for a little while. However, in the end, it didn't seem to matter. What a horrifying way to go out.

Well, I got a feeling that Paco would be shaping into Joe Jr. Having Joe as a mentor just spells disaster for the kid, like a vicious cycle, with Mooney doing this to Joe first.

[Spartan Girl]

Another stupid and fatal mistake Beck made was writing a FULL NOVEL implicating Dr. Nicky. One or two pages might have been enough to trick Joe, but nope she had to go all out, practically giftwrapping a patsy for Joe to use for her murder.

I do agree this was the most sympathetic we saw Beck, even moreso than in the novel. I did feel some sympathy during the writing sequence where she admitted how she self-victimized herself. The "werent you asking for it" bit? Oy. That was powerful, especially in this current time.

Edited November 12, 2018 by Spartan Girl

[BooBear]

17 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I do agree this was the most sympathetic we saw Beck, even moreso than in the novel. I did feel some sympathy during the writing sequence where she admitted how she self-victimized herself. The "werent you asking for it" bit? oy. that was powerful, especially in this current time.

I thought that was the best part.  I think there are a lot of women out there like Beck and hopefully that might make them think a little about their actions.  I also enjoyed that we got confirmation that Beck knew how awful she was.  And she "could" write when forced. 

Quote

I found this episode very disturbing. I didn’t want Beck to die and while Penn makes a good Joe, I can’t root for a man who stalks and murders a woman. Sad for Paco and what he has seen in his short life. Since I’m a writer myself, I enjoyed seeing the writing storyline. 

I am a pretty dark person but this made me a tad worried. Now I know why in the end the bad guy loses. Because if the bad guy wins... real people could act similar. I did enjoy that everyone was well written and that Joe didn't always win... but this is as close to a real likable serial killer. I always felt Dexter was not a real "serial" killer because he always chose bad people that deserved to die. Beck, did not deserve to die.  

Though I do feel they gave enough wiggle room that she might not be dead.  How plausible would it be that Ron's super burned body took Beck's place?  

[EdnasEdibles]

Yes, Beck did the total rookie slasher film mistakes. Don't just assume the guy is knocked out. KILL HIM DEAD. Like cut off his head and burn the bones. Sage the whole book store. Or if the guy lets you out of the torture cage, don't call the cops until you are absolutely 100% free. Like outside. With witnesses. 

That being said, I did not want her to die and I kept hoping Paco or the PI or even the other bookstore worker would hear her and rescue her. It was a good show. 

And I googled to discover that urine is not a good source of DNA so Uncle Jesse will likely rot in jail. :(

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

Surprise, bitch! Candace is alive! Holy fuck, what a twist!

Is she really alive? My DVR cut off as Joe saw her. Help!

Quote

According to Google, there's very little DNA in urine, so you can't ID someone that way. Joe lucked out there if he didn't leave fingerprints on the jar he peed into.

You can but the DNA degrades faster than it does in other sources. Not sure where it goes exactly but when the pee isn't frozen or tested right away, evidence is lost. From an investigation standpoint, he'd probably have been "safer" peeing right on the floor or in a drawer or something, haha!

And the way he was shambling about the mansion, he's lucky he didn't leave evidence all over the damn place! Maybe he did--if he's not on file, then any fingerprints are moot anyway.

Edited November 12, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[chick binewski]

3 hours ago, BooBear said:

Though I do feel they gave enough wiggle room that she might not be dead.  How plausible would it be that Ron's super burned body took Beck's place?  

1

The fact we never saw Beck's lifeless body made me certain she is alive. But my predictions based on TV tropes have been really off the mark lately so I could be totally wrong on this. I also thought maybe Candace was a hallucination and she becomes some sort of conscience for Joe next season. Again, probably way off the mark. 

I think Badgley makes the show watchable simply through his narrations, where he can be snarky, honest (when he's not shifting the truth to meet his needs) and funny with pitch-perfect delivery. The complete opposite of who Joe is when interacting with people.

Spoiler

I'm looking forward to next season and Joe hating on L.A. Or loving L.A.? I read a ridiculous statistic that something like 25% of all serial killers have spent at least some time in California so maybe he'll feel right at home.

Edited November 12, 2018 by chick binewski
Content mentioned in interviews but MIGHT be spoiler-y?

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, BooBear said:

 And she "could" write when forced. 

That cracked me up. All it took was being in mortal danger!

[Guest]

Well, Paco is a little asshole. Beck should've played it cool and pretended Like she had just accidentally locked herself back there. As soon as she mentioned Joe, she sealed her own fate. You could watch Paco's face change. One of the more subtle performances from that child actor all season. He didn't even care why she was in there, he just wanted to protect Joe. Although I think a blackmail plot would be infinitely more interesting next season, I think given all the time we wasted on boring Mr. Mooney back story, they're setting up an obvious parallel between Joe and Paco where Paco is the kid with a rough home life who stumbles on to a sociopathic mentor and gradually becomes sociopathic himself. That said, I would much prefer Paco rebelling against Joe and holding it over his head rather than watching Joe Academy next season

Despite Beck's usual idiocy, she did have her moments this ep. Stabbing Joe with the typewriter key was pretty badass, as was coming up with the plan to frame Dr. Nicky. Did she write down her internal monologue about needing to pretend to be in love with Joe to save herself or was that just regular internal monologue while she typed the novel? You would think that she would realize that it's probably not a smart idea to tell your homicidal boyfriend that you know he's a disgusting murderer and you hate him before you're actually all the way out of the basement. She could have kept the façade going for five more minutes, surely. Her ego got in the way. Although I guess the love angle had fallen apart when she stabbed him. Still....fucking moron. But, she allowed her desire to gloat about her own success and superiority in "unmasking" Joe to trump her own survival instinct, which I guess is a nice cynical way to bring the show's/book's? fixation on horrible vapid millennials full circle.

Chekov's piss jar was a massive disappointment. There is indeed DNA in urine and one would assume that the police just wouldn't shrug off a random jar of blood filled urine found at a murder scene. Also, while I'm very intrigued by Candace still being very much alive, it requires a little bit of suspension of disbelief that she just appeared totally fine out of the ether when Joe himself thought he killed her. Did she just play dead or something?

Overall, fantastic finale of an amazing show and I have all my fingers and toes crossed that they get another season! 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Guest

[Jillybean]

Has a 2nd season been confirmed?

[Madding crowd]

I feel sorry for Paco and think he will turn out just like Joe. He has been subjected to violence most of his life, Joe advocates violence and is his male role model and it seems like he spends a lot of time alone either at Joe's apartment or hiding out somewhere.  I think the actor plays him very emotionless, which is kind of how you get when you witness violence again and again. 

I think Beck did what she could to get out. I would imagine being imprisoned by a serial killer who keeps a box full of people's teeth would unnerve you to the point of hysteria. I think she tried to do what she could but became panicked in the end. I think her writing out the story of Dr. Nicky was maybe a little too convienient to the plot. I didn't hate Beck. She was immature and selfish and finding her way in the world, the same as so many people her age. But she wasn't a criminal like Joe. I never made too much of any of the cheating, because she and Joe were not together in any legitimate way. He stalked and lied to her and she never really made it clear she was in love with him and they were exclusive. Of course Joe demands all his obsessions be true only to him, but Joe and Beck never had a real relationship imo. Dr Nicky had no business having an affair with his patient, and in that case I blame him because he was in a position of authority there. 

I love dark subject matter and read a lot of thrillers. But I do feel creeped out at stalkers and how easy it is for them to take over your life. I hope the second season will have something different than Joe stalking and killing more people. I also don't want to see poor Paco as Joe's killing protege. I will have to think about how I would want the next season to go, but for Joe to just keep killing isn't it.  I do wonder how Joe, Mr.. Mooney and Ethan support themselves since it doesn't seem like the bookstore makes a lot of money. Joe could be making money by buying and selling rare books, but he seems to spend very little time actually at the bookstore unless he is in the basement. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Madding crowd

[BooBear]

1 hour ago, Jillybean said:

Has a 2nd season been confirmed?

Yes, in so far as they did it before season 1 aired. This originally I think was supposed to air on Netflix so I am betting they figure it still has potential there once done on lifetime. 

[AuntieDiane6]

Well, I certainly hope Lifetime publicizes it better... it is a GREAT show but nobody knows about it. I've done my part, though... I promoted it to a friend and she binge-watched it and recommended it to HER friends. 

[Anela]

I didn't keep up with this, because Joe annoyed me, just as he did in the book. So the kid was bad, too? Damn it. 

I didn't know there was a season two, but of course there is: There's a second book. 

2 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Well, I certainly hope Lifetime publicizes it better... it is a GREAT show but nobody knows about it. I've done my part, though... I promoted it to a friend and she binge-watched it and recommended it to HER friends. 

It will probably end up on Netflix. 

[Chaos Theory]

Well shit.....

Did they actually go there and have Joe kill Beck?

Yes they did. 

 

Just when I was starting to like Beck too.

Bastards!!!!!!!

[tennisgurl]

That was a wild ride, I was guessing what would happen to the very last second! Talk about a show being a million times better than expected. I almost didnt bother with this show, as Lifetime doesn't exactly have a long record of fine entertainment, but I am so glad that I did! Great performances, and an impressive mix of thriller, and dark comedy, with a very strong beginning, middle, and end. I cant wait to see what happens next season! 

Penn really has been amazing every episode, and its truly tragic that he probably wont see any awards love for his performance, due to the show being a Lifetime thriller. If this was on HBO, I bet people would already be talking Emmy's. He was so likable, that it was easy to root for him, but he could instantly turn around to be icy and terrifying, even seconds after being sweet and charming. I guess Unreal took a few awards home before it went into the garbage, so maybe this show can as well? 

I am fascinated by Joe, and even feel somewhat sorry for him, but I cant root for him, and want to see him eventually caught. You can only murder so many people and still be a likable protagonist, even in villain protagonist way. I dont want him to be caught yet, because I want the show to keep going, but he needs to be stopped. Even as he was putting out Becks book, he was already looking for his next victim, before he realized she was Candace. Beck wasn't exactly the best kind of person (and neither were any of his other victims, really) but she didnt deserve to die, and I ended up just feeling bad for her. She was so close to escaping, and she still ended up dumped in the ground by her boyfriend, who is voice overing about how much this all sucks for HIM. 

It looks like Paco is going to go onto a become Joe Junior, just the way that Joe was abused/mentored by the bookstore guy. Its a vicious cycle of abuse and warping of morality, and its probably the creepiest part of the whole series. Really, I was more chilled by Paco leaving Beck to die than I was by anything that Joe did all season. Joe ranting to Beck about how the bookstore psycho would lock him up to "teach him" really gives you a good glimpse into his mind. He was taught that, after a life of abuse and neglect, that being controlled and locked away "for your own good" by someone else was a good thing, and now thats how he sees his mission in relationships. Its really rather pitiable, if also super scary and psychopathic.   

I do love how Beck can only get off her ass and write when death is directly involved. Her not dead dad, her best friend, and even her imminent death! 

[BaskingsharkGTX]

Hmmmm, that was... interestingly fucked up. I have been deeply unimpressed with every new show of 2018 regardless of where it comes from except this one which was... intriguing in a lot of ways. Penn and Elizabeth were both very good this week. I was impressed at the vein on his forehead when he yelled at Paco and it's interesting to compare Joe to Dan Humphrey (who would probably come in and buy books at Joe's bookstore just to be pretentious) and his relationship with Serena on Gossip Girl (which I did not think was healthy and did not want them to end up together.)

Chekhov's smoking McGuffin jar of piss aside, there are still plenty of loose ends Joe has left lying around. The girlfriend he dumped last episode for example, who obviously suspects something.  Plus Paco knows all. And now we have less of a smoking gun and more of a smoking Candace.

See you next season, Bunny.

[lb60]

I'd like to thank Daniel Cosgrove for making me tune in to this show.  It turned out to be creepy, good stuff.

RIP Ron (you child abusing, girlfriend beating, alcoholic dirtbag). 

[tennisgurl]

Shout Out to the very appropriate Bluebeard reference in the title! Its one of my favorite lesser know, creepy fairy tales, and it works horribly well for Joe. 

[RedInk]

I thought the writing and acting in this episode was phenomenal,  and pretty much everything I wanted to say has been mentioned...except I'm not sure they're setting up Paco to be Joe Jr. I actually thought it was very clever the way they set up the scene with Paco and Beck, because she said "he's killed people," and I interpreted Paco's reaction to mean he thought she was referencing his mom's scumbag boyfriend. She was going to tell. So by walking away, he was protecting the man who had saved him. And it seemed to me he was conflicted about that murder, even though it was self-defense (kind of). That may be too much hand-waving on my part, but I don't think he knew Joe was a serial killer - he just knew Joe took out the guy who was likely going to kill his mother and possibly him, too.

Edit: I may be remembering the scene incorrectly bc it was so stressful lol. I just wasn't sure a kid that age understood the gravity of what was happening or that by leaving he was sealing her fate.

Edited November 13, 2018 by RedInk

[Door County Cherry]

15 hours ago, BooBear said:

Though I do feel they gave enough wiggle room that she might not be dead.  How plausible would it be that Ron's super burned body took Beck's place?  

I think she's super dead.  While we never saw her directly dead, we did see Joe burying her body at Dr. Nicky's house.  I imagine he texted Dr. Nicky as Beck in order to re-establish a relationship which cops who would scour her phone would discover.  

8 hours ago, BooBear said:

Yes, in so far as they did it before season 1 aired. This originally I think was supposed to air on Netflix so I am betting they figure it still has potential there once done on lifetime. 

It was a Lifetime show but Netflix picked up international streaming rights.  Once that happened, it got a second season.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Really, I was more chilled by Paco leaving Beck to die than I was by anything that Joe did all season.    

That was the most disturbing part of the series for me. She was screaming and begging for her life, and even though Paco's been living in fear the whole season, he had no empathy. He's an abused child who knows all too well what it feels like to be in mortal danger, and yet you could see his morality vanish in that split second when he realized saving her wouldn't be in his personal best interest. Creepy as fuck.

I thought Elizabeth Lail (Beck) had a really thoughtful take on it in her interview with Vulture: "She was so close. Paco, open the door! It’s so sad. The fact that Joe manipulated Paco, that he had Paco’s trust so fully that he wouldn’t even open the door at that moment, that’s scary stuff."

[yourdreamer]

11 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Well, I certainly hope Lifetime publicizes it better... it is a GREAT show but nobody knows about it. I've done my part, though... I promoted it to a friend and she binge-watched it and recommended it to HER friends. 

I was reading my (fluff magazine) and it had on the pop culture sheet You in big bold writing, saying everybody should watch it, it’s that good. 

Also, I recommended it to a friend and my mother. Both are watching. I am making some effort! 

Edited November 13, 2018 by yourdreamer
Forgot my references

[lvbalgurl]

Wow, I felt as if I was holding my breath for the entire episode.  I've not been impressed by Elizabeth Lail until this ep but I thought she was terrific.  I finally truly felt for Beck.  I wanted her to get out of there alive.  I felt incredibly sad for her when Paco didn't help her.  Damn.

Joe went full on crazy this ep, it's like he'd unveiled whatever mask he'd had up all season and was just his sad, crazy, lonely, twisted, disturbed self.  He was scary and chilling but because he's so broken as an individual, there was still a part of me that felt something for him.  I feel weirdly guilty about having a strange sympathy for a man who is stalking murderer, but I'm gonna go ahead and attribute that to Penn's incredible portrayal of him.  I didn't want to feel anything for Joe after the finale, because I really hate that he killed Beck, but yet, there's a part of me that does.

I've only watched a little bit of Dexter, but, as someone mentioned above, this is different.  He killed horrible people who pretty much deserved their fate.  This isn't easy.  Beck could be annoying and self-absorbed, but she didn't deserve what she got.  And I wanted her to live.  Yet here I am.  Penn should get an Emmy for this - I was blown away by how good he was on this show.

Edited November 13, 2018 by lvbalgurl

[RichiesOlderBro]

11 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

On 11/12/2018 at 6:49 AM, BooBear said:

Though I do feel they gave enough wiggle room that she might not be dead.  How plausible would it be that Ron's super burned body took Beck's place?  

I think she's super dead.  While we never saw her directly dead, we did see Joe burying her body at Dr. Nicky's house.  I imagine he texted Dr. Nicky as Beck in order to re-establish a relationship which cops who would scour her phone would discover.  

20 hours ago, BooBear said:

Yes, in so far as they did it before season 1 aired. This originally I think was supposed to air on Netflix so I am betting they figure it still has potential there once done on lifetime. 

It was a Lifetime show but Netflix picked up international streaming rights.  Once that happened, it got a second season.

They had to edit out cuss words, so I doubt this was originally made for basic cable.  The sex scenes looked like they had been edited as well.

[TattleTeeny]

I heard the cuss words.

[dubbel zout]

11 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

I heard the cuss words.

Same here: I heard "fuck" and "shit."

Beck is dead; if not, that dilutes the entire show. Candace's return will drive next season, and that's enough, IMO. I don't need Beck popping back up.

[AnnieHeights]

I was sad Beck was killed....she was a lot more likeable that Candace.  Beck wasn't perfect by a long shot but I felt she actually had a lot more feelings for Joe than Candace did.  I think the rebound girlfriend will come back to haunt Joe and pretty much warned Beck she would wind up like Candace (when obviously we all thought she was killed by him).  I agree with the above poster that said Joe took off his mask.  It was the first time I saw him as a monster and not just a 'misunderstood' serial killer - ha!  Also in agreement about the impressive vein action in his forehead this episode!  I loved this series!  Penn was awesome as Joe!       

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 11/12/2018 at 11:31 AM, SnarkEnthusiast said:

There is indeed DNA in urine and one would assume that the police just wouldn't shrug off a random jar of blood filled urine found at a murder scene.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the jar just sitting inconspicuously among a bunch of other jars?  (Or am I wrong about that?)  So I was thinking, I wouldn't know if cops would be clever enough to even notice those jars or inspect them - would they?  What cop would ever think that somebody would urinate in a jar?  It's just so out of the ordinary. (I'm not a cop so I don't know how detectives think.)

Candace was gorgeous.  The way her mouth moved reminded me of someone else famous.  Couldn't place it.

If Elizabeth Lail stopped the breathy voice thing, then I could join in on the accolades for this episode.  But every time I hear it..... ughhhhhhh.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[sadie]

I held my breath through most of this. Once Joes mask dropped it was truly terrifying, great bit of acting by Penn.  This guy deserves every award they could give him and I hope he reads these boards to see the appreciation that is out there for him. Beck again for me was a mix of terror for her, but I just eye rolled at some of her actions. She seemed to be in the cage long enough to collect herself. Once I got him locked in the first thing I would have done was grabbed those keys. Her escape was so close. The ending was sadder than I thought it would be, young dead girl post humously famous. I hated Dr Nicky so, meh, him getting framed only bothered me because at this point I did want to see Joe pay. Paco might have been the scariest end result of all of this, him staring at Beck locked up and just being devoid of anything was chilling. Well done Lifetime. Bravo. Now can you hold onto this greatness in season two as I don’t think I will survive another disappointment that was Unreal. 

[Door County Cherry]

3 hours ago, RichiesOlderBro said:

They had to edit out cuss words, so I doubt this was originally made for basic cable.  The sex scenes looked like they had been edited as well.

A lot of cable shows now have curse words.  Whether or not they air depends on network rules (FCC doesn't apply to basic cable.)  For instance AMC will give Better Call Saul one or two fucks a season.  Others will be dropped and are dropped depending on when it airs.  Good Behavior always had an uncensored version available On Demand.

[Chaos Theory]

I read an article and the showrunner wanted to be tasteful when it came to showing Joe’s murders.  She wanted to be carefully not to make it too “pornographic”.  So the actual murders were often kept off the air and the after effects were left and Showing Beck getting brutally murdered felt too showy and stalkerish in its own way. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Kimmel77]

The finale left me a little dissatisfied; I needed to see Beck die for closure [the same with Peach]. Has this show got an issue with showing female death..

Paco must have figured out Joe killed Beck. I also find it now a stretch that everyone connected to Beck and Peach has not grown suspicious about three intimately connected people dying/disappearing in the space of a year. That PI has to be on that trial in season 2 along with everyone else.

Candice being alive didn't surprise me as that wasn't conclusively dealt with in her last appearance. I guess Joe tried to bury her alive or something.

Season 2 may be interesting. I do hope it doesn't spin into Joe falling for Candice and seeing her reappearance as an act of god bringing them back together.

[JD5166]

They didn’t do a very good job making Beck completely unlikeable like she was in the book, in fact I kind of liked her in the end and was feeling weird about her murder. I will definitely tune in for season two tho! Great show esp for a lifetime production. 

[waving feather]

Damn, I felt bad for Beck at the end. And Joe is irredeemable to me at the end, not even when he killed her but his voice-over when he convinced himself that this is what she would have wanted (to be a successful author instead of an alive one). How he has absolutely NO remorse about killing her is disgusting. He even had more remorse about killing Benji. Beck used Joe for sure when they were together but she didn't ask to be stalked in the first place. Just a friendly interaction at a bookshop and he deemed it an opening to stalk her and in the end kill her. No one deserves that. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by waving feather

[kj4ever]

I've got to hand it to Penn. The way his monologue changed in this episode from Charming to downright creepy was genius. I also liked Beck's internal monologue when she was writing. It was so true to the times. During most of this season I think a lot of people thought she deserved what she was getting just because of the way she looked and the way she acted. Sound familiar?

Edited November 14, 2018 by kj4ever

[princelina]

On 11/12/2018 at 10:58 PM, RedInk said:

I thought the writing and acting in this episode was phenomenal,  and pretty much everything I wanted to say has been mentioned...except I'm not sure they're setting up Paco to be Joe Jr. I actually thought it was very clever the way they set up the scene with Paco and Beck, because she said "he's killed people," and I interpreted Paco's reaction to mean he thought she was referencing his mom's scumbag boyfriend. She was going to tell. So by walking away, he was protecting the man who had saved him. And it seemed to me he was conflicted about that murder, even though it was self-defense (kind of). That may be too much hand-waving on my part, but I don't think he knew Joe was a serial killer - he just knew Joe took out the guy who was likely going to kill his mother and possibly him, too.

Edit: I may be remembering the scene incorrectly bc it was so stressful lol. I just wasn't sure a kid that age understood the gravity of what was happening or that by leaving he was sealing her fate.

That's exactly what I thought too.

[Eliot]

On 11/11/2018 at 11:16 PM, DanaMB said:

I cannot believe my power went out right when they came back from the last commercial break!!! I'm so pissed.  I saw Joe grab Beck and then it came back on when Candace showed up. Unbelievable. Thank god for the 1:00a.m. re-airing. I can't wait for next season. I wonder if we have to wait a year.

My DVR cut off right after Candace said, "Hi, Bunny," so I wasn't sure whether it was a dream/hallucination or real! So annoying.

Penn reminds me a lot of a young Tom Everett Scott.

[rejnel]

Quote

I'd like to thank Daniel Cosgrove for making me tune in to this show. 

I’ve only known him as Bill Lewis till now. He was great as a sleazy abuser. And I really like that Ron, as awful as he was, was dead right about Joe.

Compelling season, to say the least! The last two episodes were especially great.

Can anybody tell me what Blythe says in their final talking head? Sounds something like "the most moving prose I'd read since "82nd to Last?"* I'm sure it is nothing like that! But what actually is it?

 

ETA: was there any strong reason to believe Candace was dead? Other than Joe's tendency to kill people? I also thought that was very ambiguous, but people online seem to be surprised she's not dead. Even her "I'm alive" is the kind of thing someone could say in other circumstances besides having been left for dead. For example, I have said it upon showing up two hours late for dinner after fighting holiday traffic. Certainly, if she disappeared and successfully ghosted the world for a while, it would be a good first line on returning.

E AGAIN TA: *maybe this was “Zadie’s second to last?” That would be on brand for the hilariously pretentious Blythe!

Edited January 3, 2019 by rejnel

[ursula]

On 11/12/2018 at 7:19 PM, tennisgurl said:

She was so close to escaping, and she still ended up dumped in the ground by her boyfriend, who is voice overing about how much this all sucks for HIM. 

I don't know why but I bust out laughing over this. Like talk about adding insult to injury. 

Re: Paco. I'm surprised that people were shocked he didn't help Beck. I kept expecting him to return with the gun under the counter and shoot her in the face. 🤣 So the fact that he just ran off actually relieved me. 

On 11/12/2018 at 8:50 PM, BaskingsharkGTX said:

it's interesting to compare Joe to Dan Humphrey (who would probably come in and buy books at Joe's bookstore just to be pretentious) and his relationship with Serena on Gossip Girl (which I did not think was healthy and did not want them to end up together.)

YOU is basically a dark Derena fanfiction. With the obssesive frenemyship with Blair/Peach upgraded to femslash, Benji as a combo Chuck and Nate, and Karen as Dan's WOC "other woman". Oh, and spoiler -

Spoiler

Dan was Gossip Girl all along. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by ursula
Spoiler 😉

[red12]

On 11/11/2018 at 11:52 PM, LittleIggy said:

When you are fighting for your life, don’t hit the homicidal person in the head once, hoping he’ll stay out long enough for you to get away. Hit that motherfucker enough times that you know he won’t be getting up!

Ha! This is what I always direct toward the screen during those types of scenes. I'm like "Hit him more. It's called bludgeon for a reason, dummy." You know the assailant is going to get up and catch them. The victim also rarely picks up the gun when it's lying next to another unconscious actor. Drives me insane.

[methodwriter85]

On 11/12/2018 at 11:27 PM, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I thought Elizabeth Lail (Beck) had a really thoughtful take on it in her interview with Vulture: "She was so close. Paco, open the door! It’s so sad. The fact that Joe manipulated Paco, that he had Paco’s trust so fully that he wouldn’t even open the door at that moment, that’s scary stuff."

I'm  pretty into reading true crime, and it's kind of chilling how often you read stories where people could have helped victims but didn't because they had been manipulated by the killer. It's also a reminder of how you really do have to make life or death choices in those moments, and it's not like the movies where you're always rescued from the bad guy. I kind of love that they went there with Beck- she was so close but made the wrong choice because she didn't realize in the split second she needed to that Paco was utterly loyal to Joe. And I kind of love that she didn't- it was in-character and we never saw her interact with Paco in any meaningful way.

I saw this series as a deconstruction of both the Manic Pixie Dream Girl and the Nice Guy. Our "Nice Guy" thinks that Beck is his Manic Pixie Dream Girl who's going to make his life better, but turns on her when he realizes that she won't. I mean, romantic comedies usually have this element of stalking

Anyway, this was riveting work. I don't think I'm ever going to view Penn Badgely the same way again. I just remember him as the cute little guy with dark hair and puppy dog eyes who did a bunch of teen movies and t.v. shows like 10 years ago and then got too old for that stuff.

[betha]

Just finished this. I wouldn’t describe Joe as a serial killer like Ted Bundy.I think of a serial killer as someone who kills for killing’s sake- the thrill from the actual deed. Joe isn’t that into the deed. He feels like he is killing for reasons. I would describe Joe as a sociopathic domestic abuser. It’s about control, very classic for domestic violence. Maybe he isn’t sociopathic, actually, I think he does feel love. Psycopathic? Delusional?

Edited January 6, 2019 by betha

[ribboninthesky1]

I never watched Gossip Girl, so I wasn't familiar with Penn Badgley.  His sardonic narration plus the great production values saved this for me.  That said, I wasn't the least bit sympathetic towards Joe, and I'm sure I was meant to be.  I mean, for all of his "I just want love" schtick, he murdered Beck entirely out of self-preservation.  So glad that Karen got out alive - she was the only functional, sane character in the entire series. 

Also, was Joe meant to be so thin and borderline sallow? Because it was made clear he wasn't in great shape, and he looked like a solid wind gust would have knocked him off his feet.  I get that with the Benji and Elijah murders that he caught them off guard.  But I kept thinking Peach should have been able to take him down easily.  Hell, even Paco could have, if he wanted. 

In any case, I was hoping Beck would get out and live.  For all of her flaws, she's not a killer, and didn't know that Joe has a titanium skull that is impervious to all blows.  She was focused on escape, so her last actions didn't bother me.