Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search

S03.E08: The Worst Possible Use of Free Will


Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

We saw how the mirror centaur was meant to torture Tahani (it mirrored back her personality in a negative way).

We saw how the mirror centaur was meant to torture Tahani (it mirrored back her personality in a negative way).

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

Is anyone else disappointed that we didn't get to see how Jason was tortured by Blake the penguin?

Blake turned his back to the TV while the Jaguars were playing.

  • Love 7
Link to comment

You should start watching from the beginning, if you haven't, because this is not really an episodic show, but more like a long novel.  Based on all we know about Michael, Eleanor and Chidi, the cliche of the owl eating the lizard wouldn't make sense as a plot development, because Michael wouldn't worry about showing that to Eleanor, and Eleanor wouldn't be mad at Chidi about it.

  • Love 21
Link to comment
1 hour ago, SailorGirl said:

I can't stand the Barefoot Contessa, so that would definitely be on my diagram. 

I am VERY curious, however, as to what an "Ambien-Hamster Mishap" could be . . . or maybe its better not to know . . . 

Ooooooh, better not to know;)

Link to comment
34 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I guess I just don't "get" this show.  This  is the first season that I have started watching it.

I thought that the owl was going to eat that lizard and that the lizard didn't run away.  I thought that is what Michael was afraid to show Eleanor.

If that had happened, then Eleanor would have been pissed at Chidi for picking the owl when he could have taken a dog.  It would have been all on Chidi since he stalled around unable to make a decision on which dog to take.    By the time he makes up his mind both dogs were gone.  The only three animal options that were left weren't all that great so he took the owl.

The first two seasons of this show are so good. The twist that shocked most viewers—that they were in the Bad Place—has been spoiled for you, but it’s still really worth a watch. The second season is some of my favorite tv ever. I’m still loving this season, but mostly because I’m ridiculously invested in these characters. Maybe see if your library has DVDs of the seasons (if you don’t want Netflix.) Just make sure to get out of the library before they start filming porn...

  • Love 14
Link to comment
5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Love Chidi's inability to pick a puppy (although, why wouldn't he simply ask Janet to conjure up another one?)

Because his pathology is considering all options and I think discounting factors that might be merely his own selfishness. Conjuring another puppy wouldn't help with that. 

It was nice to see something of Chidi smitten with Eleanor. We didn't get much of that last season. But I will say that the bit where Eleanor lost her hair took me out of the story because it seemed odd that Michael and Janet would have had the opportunity to study the side effects of (1) a new device (2) on humans (3) in the Earth environment. When I pick up a prescription the long list of distressing and unlikely side effects were collected from clinical trials! 

  • Love 1
Link to comment

Oh, I loved this episode (so it would figure that my DVR didn't record it and I had to wait until it showed up on OnDemand today. Boo.).

Anyway. I'm so glad we, and Eleanor, got to see how she and Chidi fell in love. It made my little shipper heart so happy. Michael described some of those events (Chidi sneezing, the kiss by the lake) last season so I'm happy we actually got to see them. All the little scenes of them cuddling or holding hands were sweet. I'm glad Michael also made her realize that her attributing her feelings for Chidi to determinism was just a defense mechanism.

All the scenes with the animals were perfect. Of course Tahani would choose a centaur that looks like her, and of course Jason would think penguins are mythical creatures. Like Chidi, I wouldn't have been able to choose between the puppies either. Though, in my case, it would be kittens. The lizard crawling up Eleanor's head while she just kept talking like nothing was happening had me in stitches, as did Tahani's expression as it happened. Also, Eleanor running around calling for "Lizard!" because she didn't name it. 

Janet really didn't like the reminder about Jason and Tahani being married.

I missed Shawn and Vicki. I'm glad they're back. Since their powers probably won't work on Earth, I look forward to Shawn getting frustrated when he can't lock people inside cocoons whenever they piss him off. 

When Eleanor and Michael are sitting at the table in the library, there's one of those motivational posters behind them that reads "Gradadude." 

  • Love 10
Link to comment

Parks and Rec had a running gag about libraries, too. I love libraries, but I still enjoy the jokes.

12 hours ago, Samsnee said:

To me they should have realized they were in the bad place when Chidi felt pain and started bleeding from the owl scratch. Why would you bleed in the good place?

I think it's Chidi's low self-esteem that makes him not question things like that. Why would the soulmate animal scratch him? Why would he not be able to ask for another puppy if the original ones on offer were gone? Does "The Good Place" have a puppy shortage? Why a lot of things. I think that there have been lots of hints (even in the very first episode, with a dog being kicked into the sun), but these people are too anxious and confused to actually see through it at first. But then, they do see through it over and over again, eventually, which is why Michael's experiment failed.

  • Love 7
Link to comment
11 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I guess I just don't "get" this show.  This  is the first season that I have started watching it.

I thought that the owl was going to eat that lizard and that the lizard didn't run away.  I thought that is what Michael was afraid to show Eleanor.

If that had happened, then Eleanor would have been pissed at Chidi for picking the owl when he could have taken a dog.  It would have been all on Chidi since he stalled around unable to make a decision on which dog to take.    By the time he makes up his mind both dogs were gone.  The only three animal options that were left weren't all that great so he took the owl.

Both seasons of Good Place are on Netflix (at least in the US)

6 hours ago, phalange said:

Oh, I loved this episode (so it would figure that my DVR didn't record it and I had to wait until it showed up on OnDemand today. Boo.).

My DVR didn't record it either! My parents had to watch it On Demand.

Link to comment
17 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I guess I just don't "get" this show.  This  is the first season that I have started watching it.

As others have said it would be best to start with Season 1 and give it at least 5-6 episodes.  Some folks loved it from the jump (moi) and others needed a few more eps to gain the full appreciation.

  • Love 5
Link to comment
On 11/8/2018 at 8:27 PM, Chaos Theory said:

The funniest bit though is that apparently every place in Arazona produces porn when they close down for the night. 

 

On 11/8/2018 at 8:32 PM, tennisgurl said:

And now we know that every place in Arizona becomes the site of a porn shoot after dark. The more you know!

That bit was extra funny for me because I know someone from near my hometown who shoots porn for a living in Scottsdale.

  • Love 6
Link to comment
17 hours ago, Dots And Stripes said:

Anyone notice a Lil Sebastian like mini horse among the animals in this episode? D’Arcy Carden (Janet) posted a pic of herself with one and I assume it was taken when they filed this episode.

Too bad this wasn’t the real horsey heaven.

 

15 hours ago, whiporee said:

It wouldn't surprise me if Lil' Sebastian ended up in the Bad Place. That miniature horse had bad morals and was a little bit full of himself, diploma from Notre Dame and all. 

I don’t watch Parks and Rec so I didn’t know what you were referring to, but then I saw this article posted on Facebook!

https://ew.com/tv/2018/11/10/the-good-place-lil-sebastian-parks-and-recreation/?utm_content=link&utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly_entertainmentweekly&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=756490F0-E50C-11E8-A8E6-C2B9C28169F1

  • Love 2
Link to comment

I've been wondering, given Chidi's pathology, would he really have gone to Eleanor instead of to Michael's "be one with your soul animal event"? After all, he'd committed to going to the latter. Didn't not going violate some ethical construct? Shouldn't he have been paralyzed over whether to go or follow Eleanor? Did he tell MIchael that he wasn't going or did he just not show up? This only occurred to me on my third viewing. Maybe I should just limit myself to two, at least for the first week. 

Link to comment
47 minutes ago, Loandbehold said:

I've been wondering, given Chidi's pathology, would he really have gone to Eleanor instead of to Michael's "be one with your soul animal event"? After all, he'd committed to going to the latter. Didn't not going violate some ethical construct? Shouldn't he have been paralyzed over whether to go or follow Eleanor? Did he tell MIchael that he wasn't going or did he just not show up? This only occurred to me on my third viewing. Maybe I should just limit myself to two, at least for the first week. 

I think the reason that Chidi and Eleanor are actual, real-life soulmates, despite what Michael has said about making the whole thing up, is that they make each other better. He helps her to be less selfish, to think about the well-being and happiness of others, and he makes her feel secure as she actually has someone she can depend on, who will help her and support her. As for Chidi, Eleanor helps him to take himself less seriously. More importantly, we've seen Eleanor make Chidi more decisive, too, like when he stormed into Michael's office in season 1 to tell him that Eleanor did belong there and should get points for improvement. Deciding to skip flying and help the woman he was in love with (since we know he was smitten since she handed him the tissue before sneezing) was probably fairly easy for him at that point in that reboot. They help each other overcome the character flaw that sent them to the Bad Place, and it's really sweet 'n' stuff.

And I think three viewings of an episode is perfectly acceptable. 

  • Love 13
Link to comment

Kristen Bell is hilarious and cute even with a lizard crawling on her head!

The Good Place’s Lizard Is a ‘Moody’ Improv Master

Count me in as the flashbacks making me miss the afterlife stuff too. I know there were probably those who didn't want an entire season of still-evil Michael making attempt after attempt a torturing our favorite four but now I wish they had!

Edited by VCRTracking
  • Love 4
Link to comment
On 11/9/2018 at 5:27 AM, Samsnee said:

 

 Apparently the crawling was unplanned and Kristin just rolled with it because she’s awesome. 

 

https://www.vulture.com/2018/11/the-good-place-season-3-kristen-bell-lizard.html

The lizard made that scene. It was hilarious.

On 11/9/2018 at 11:32 AM, possibilities said:

Jason always seems to escape the effects of torture. he's so relentlessly innocent and sunshiney that he never gets too bothered by anything. It must drive the demons crazy!

He really is up for anything. 

 

Centaur Tahani was amazing. She was everything I didn't know I needed in my life. The flashbacks were adorable as was the argument Eleanor made being based in philosophy. 

  • Love 4
Link to comment
16 hours ago, Mockingbird said:

I think the reason that Chidi and Eleanor are actual, real-life soulmates, despite what Michael has said about making the whole thing up, is that they make each other better. He helps her to be less selfish, to think about the well-being and happiness of others, and he makes her feel secure as she actually has someone she can depend on, who will help her and support her. As for Chidi, Eleanor helps him to take himself less seriously. More importantly, we've seen Eleanor make Chidi more decisive, too, like when he stormed into Michael's office in season 1 to tell him that Eleanor did belong there and should get points for improvement. Deciding to skip flying and help the woman he was in love with (since we know he was smitten since she handed him the tissue before sneezing) was probably fairly easy for him at that point in that reboot. They help each other overcome the character flaw that sent them to the Bad Place, and it's really sweet 'n' stuff.

I love both characters and agree with all your reasons about why they are soulmates, but (UO here) I see them as platonic soulmates rather than as passionate lovers. The declaration of love in the bed scene just didn't ring true to me, for those reasons. I feel that Chidi and Simone have had more potential lover chemistry than Chidi and Eleanor. I know most viewers ship Chidi and Eleanor, but one of the things I love about this show is the focus on developing true friendship and supporting your friends even when it is not easy. Making Chidi and Eleanor romantic soulmates takes away from that focus for me. (Note that I am not saying you can't be romantic/passionate soulmates who are also best friends--my husband and I have that kind of relationship--but I'm just not feeling the romance and passion between Chidi and Eleanor.) 

  • Love 7
Link to comment

What I am really enjoying, regarding ships on this show, is that I will be thrilled if Eleanor and Chidi become a true romantic couple, but I will be just as thrilled if they each meet the love of their lives and remain best friends forever. So long as they have each other I don't quite care how it plays out. And as long as it is mutual. The only thing I do not want, shipping wise, is for one to pine after the other. I am so thankful that Eleanor didn't find out about her and Chidi's relationship until after he broke up with Simone (I miss you Simone!!!!!) 

I do hope they resolve the Janet/Jason/Tahani triangle though. It is the only part of the show I don't like. I honestly like Jason with either of them, or neither of them. But I hate watching Janet pinning away for Jason while he goes happily along totally ignorant of her feelings. Please, show, make that stop. 

  • Love 22
Link to comment

One of the things that's making me miss the first two seasons is all of the philosophy lessons this season are soooooo ham-fisted and After-School Special like. 

Quote

Eleanor: "This is all just ... determinism."
Michael: "What?"

Cut to Eleanor literally reading a definition of determinism out of a book. All that's missing is a narrator, and this setup is straight from a 1950s training video. It's like the overriding yearning to teach the unwashed masses philosophy theories is driving the show, not the plot or the characters.

Also, while the reboots framework for this show is entertaining and whimsical, watching Eleanor watch -- yet not remember -- her previous experiences is rather frustrating to me as a viewer. I'm seriously hoping this is the last time I have to watch Team Cockroach Soul Squad learn how to be better people. 
 

  • Love 2
Link to comment

I let this one sit a while, just fired it up today. I'd kind of thought they'd lost their way and as I was waiting for it I bemoaned that it was probably this last season ending with a whimper... and then I watched the episode. Holy forking shirtballs that was hilarious. Shows they still have the magic. Awesome stuff.

Isn't the loosing teeth thing a dream element that represents death? I've had quite a few heinous teeth falling out dreams. They all came flooding back to me when she spit her teeth out though so it wasn't all puppies and laughs. I'll forgive them though.

With the Bad people on Earth too I'm looking forward to where this will take us next. I mean beside Canada.

  • Love 2
Link to comment

I enjoyed this episode a lot, but I thought it showed (again) that the show has lost a lot of the magic without the Good Place setting. The return of the Good Place setting was so wonderful. All of the whimsy made sense and the actors did a great job returning to who they were.

I am not super excited about the Bad Place demons because what purpose can they actually serve? They don't (or shouldn't) have their powers. They don't logically lead to any kind of showdown with the Good Place over the point system. They don't directly relate to the Soul Squad trying to help people get to the Good Place.

I am also really over Janet pining for Jason. It's not interesting, and it doesn't serve her character. Meanwhile, all of the really interesting stuff that can be happening with Janet dealing with who she is when she is not a functional Janet is being overlooked.

  • Love 4
Link to comment

I'm totally an Eleanor/Chidi shipper too. (Do we not have a portmaneau couple name? Cheleanor? Nordi?) Kristen Bell didn't really sell the romance last season IMO but in this ep, I bought it.

Eleanor read the definition for determinism out of "A Complete Idiot's Guide to the Cliff Notes to Philosophy For Dingdongs ... For Morons (Abridged Edition)" -- I think that's what the last two words say, anyways.

Technically the Jeremy Bearimy of it all means there's not particular reason the illegal afterlife-Earth portal opened up in the present time rather than a while ago, but ... it probably did, to make the storytelling easier. And that would definitely kill my pet "Vicky is secretly Simone" theory, not to mention that Vicky appeared on earth as Vicky. Ah well.

TBH, considering that in this episode Michael reiterated (in flashback) that the entire Good Place was made up by him, it's kind of disconcerting that Doug "92% right" Forcett might still be one of the very few true things pre-face-turn Michael said.

  • Love 3
Link to comment
On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 7:50 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I also liked that she wasn't upset about the fact that she and Chidi weren't in love anymore but that she wanted to believe that she was capable of loving someone despite her parents and being Arizona garbage.

This is caused my eyes to well up, a bit.  I forkin' love Kristin Bell.   How a show can make me laugh out loud and then cry a few minutes later...that's good! 

And I could absolutely tell that the lizard just decided to climb Mount Eleanor and that Kristin Bell was just awesome about it.  (But she did NOT "rock" that bald look, unfortunately!)

  • Love 5
Link to comment
6 hours ago, arc said:

I'm totally an Eleanor/Chidi shipper too. (Do we not have a portmaneau couple name? Cheleanor? Nordi?) Kristen Bell didn't really sell the romance last season IMO but in this ep, I bought it.

Eleanor read the definition for determinism out of "A Complete Idiot's Guide to the Cliff Notes to Philosophy For Dingdongs ... For Morons (Abridged Edition)" -- I think that's what the last two words say, anyways.

Technically the Jeremy Bearimy of it all means there's not particular reason the illegal afterlife-Earth portal opened up in the present time rather than a while ago, but ... it probably did, to make the storytelling easier. And that would definitely kill my pet "Vicky is secretly Simone" theory, not to mention that Vicky appeared on earth as Vicky. Ah well.

TBH, considering that in this episode Michael reiterated (in flashback) that the entire Good Place was made up by him, it's kind of disconcerting that Doug "92% right" Forcett might still be one of the very few true things pre-face-turn Michael said.

It could be that the afterlife portal was designed to land in a specific spot in earth's timeline. It's also possible it landed right after Michael and Janet got to Australia, and the demons have had a long head start to get to Calgary. 

  • Love 2
Link to comment

I'm late to the party so I'll just echo what everyone else has said - loved the return of the Good Place, seeing the reboot where Chidi and Eleanor fell in love, the lizard, the centaur Tahaniya, the return of the Vicki and the demons*, and most of all the scenes between Eleanor and Michael. As you've all said, the entire cast is pitch-perfect and work so well with each other, but the Michael/Eleanor dynamic is really something special. Love this show!!

*That'd be a good name for a band

On 11/8/2018 at 9:00 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Fun seeing Arizona get the butt of the jokes this go around.  Is it really a haven for porno films?  I always assumed Los Angeles was the place for all of that.

I've lived in Arizona for 24 years and can honestly say I've never been kicked out of a public place due to a porn film shoot - then again, I don't live in Phoenix. Thankfully.

On 11/9/2018 at 7:40 AM, jmonique said:

At 6:48 or so into the show, when they come back from a break and Tahani is noting how Eleanor and the lizard both have combination skin, if you look above their heads, there's a little magical streak through the sky. If you pause it, it's the magic panda from last season that Jason wanted to catch, hopping from one balcony to another.

 

Thank you!! I noticed the streak of light but was always watching the lizard, so I never caught what the light was. Guess I'll have to rewatch the ep again, darn. This show is amazing.

On 11/9/2018 at 8:22 AM, Blakeston said:

So we saw how the lizard was meant to torture Eleanor (it ran away, which could expose her as a fraud). We saw how the mirror centaur was meant to torture Tahani (it mirrored back her personality in a negative way). And we saw how Chidi was tortured by having to choose between the puppies (and then winding up with an owl that attacked him. and gave him the world's most withering stare).

Is anyone else disappointed that we didn't get to see how Jason was tortured by Blake the penguin?

Wasn't there an animated kids' movie some years back about a dancing penguin? Maybe Blake tortured Jason by not dancing.

On 11/9/2018 at 5:53 PM, Melina22 said:

I couldn't stand it when not just her hair but her teeth fell out. It gave me the wiggins. (My nightmares come to life.) 

SAME! The burned, hairless look was horrendous enough but when she kept spitting her teeth out it was the end of me. *shudders*

On 11/9/2018 at 6:32 PM, phalange said:

Like Chidi, I wouldn't have been able to choose between the puppies either. Though, in my case, it would be kittens.

Me too. I would've just had to take both kittens with me.

Edited by Maelstrom
  • Love 2
Link to comment
8 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

I've lived in Arizona for 24 years and can honestly say I've never been kicked out of a public place due to a porn film shoot - then again, I don't live in Phoenix. Thankfully.

 

So they don't kick you out? You just stay and watch? No judgment! :)

 

11 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

Isn't the loosing teeth thing a dream element that represents death? I've had quite a few heinous teeth falling out dreams. They all came flooding back to me when she spit her teeth out though so it wasn't all puppies and laughs. I'll forgive them though.

 

I feel like I have read it represents lack of control and anxiety, but who knows? I haven't personally had it, but I do have recurring dreams about law school classes I haven't attended where I have to take the exam and/or can't find the classroom. Also a lot of dreams about elevators that don't go where they are supposed to (which seems to have replaced dreams where I am driving but my brakes don't work well and I keep accidentally running red lights). 

 

I did love that she was wondering if she pulled off the bald look while her teeth fell out. 

  • Love 6
Link to comment
38 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Happy Feet?

That sounds right, thanks!

30 minutes ago, The Companion said:

So they don't kick you out? You just stay and watch? No judgment! :)

Nah, here in northern Arizona they don't announce it, and just wait until everyone leaves on their own ;)

  • Love 6
Link to comment

I always thought dreams about teeth falling out were a sign of calcium deficiency.

I weirdly thought the falling in love flashbacks were kind of boring. I thought I wanted to see how it played out, but it turned out to be quite generic and overly saccharine to me.

Link to comment
48 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Nah, here in northern Arizona they don't announce it, and just wait until everyone leaves on their own ;)

Northern Arizona is by far the more refined part of Arizona, so that totally makes sense. :)

  • Love 2
Link to comment
On 11/8/2018 at 7:20 PM, Melina22 said:

I cannot wait to find out who in rural Canada is going to be their ideal human (speaking as someone who lives in rural Canada.) This should be good. 

I’ve been thinking about this way too much. How far north do you think they’ll go? Because The only person I can think of is a mythical person: Santa Claus.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
12 minutes ago, PityFree said:

I’ve been thinking about this way too much. How far north do you think they’ll go? Because The only person I can think of is a mythical person: Santa Claus.

In the first season Michael mentioned that every religion guessed the afterlife about 5% correctly, but a stoner from Calgary guessed it 92% correctly. That's my guess as to who the soul squad is going to visit. Then again, every time I've tried to figure this show out I've been wrong;)

  • Love 2
Link to comment
40 minutes ago, mammaM said:

In the first season Michael mentioned that every religion guessed the afterlife about 5% correctly, but a stoner from Calgary guessed it 92% correctly. That's my guess as to who the soul squad is going to visit. Then again, every time I've tried to figure this show out I've been wrong;)

But...but...Calgary is one of the least rural places IN Canada with a population exceeding 1 million!

  • Love 4
Link to comment

Just because he was in Calgary in the 70s doesn't mean he's still there. 

Also, I get the whimsy/joke/whatever but Eleanor's hair and teeth fell out on Earth -- that stuff doesn't just grow back in 5 minutes.

  • Love 3
Link to comment
14 minutes ago, dusang said:

Just because he was in Calgary in the 70s doesn't mean he's still there. 

Also, I get the whimsy/joke/whatever but Eleanor's hair and teeth fell out on Earth -- that stuff doesn't just grow back in 5 minutes.

Could that be clue that they are not on the real Earth?

  • Love 2
Link to comment
3 hours ago, RainbowBrite said:

But...but...Calgary is one of the least rural places IN Canada with a population exceeding 1 million!

 

1 hour ago, PityFree said:

 Even though the stoner guy from Calgary guessed what the afterlife would be like, that doesn’t mean he’s an example of an “ideal human.” 

 

1 hour ago, dusang said:

Just because he was in Calgary in the 70s doesn't mean he's still there. 

Also, I get the whimsy/joke/whatever but Eleanor's hair and teeth fell out on Earth -- that stuff doesn't just grow back in 5 minutes.

 

1 hour ago, PityFree said:

Could that be clue that they are not on the real Earth?

All good responses?? And remember, I said I always guessed wrong;)

  • Love 1
Link to comment
3 hours ago, PityFree said:

 Even though the stoner guy from Calgary guessed what the afterlife would be like, that doesn’t mean he’s an example of an “ideal human.” 

Maybe the idea of the points system inspired him to lead a generous, selfless life?

Link to comment
10 hours ago, mammaM said:

In the first season Michael mentioned that every religion guessed the afterlife about 5% correctly, but a stoner from Calgary guessed it 92% correctly. That's my guess as to who the soul squad is going to visit. Then again, every time I've tried to figure this show out I've been wrong;)

I thought Doug Forcett got it 72% correct?

Link to comment
On 11/9/2018 at 4:03 PM, icemiser69 said:

I was hoping that they would have the first two seasons On Demand, but unfortunately they don't.

They do have all of the seasons of "This Is Us" On Demand.  I am catching up on that series.

I haven't watched NBC in about five years, I am just realizing that I have missed out on a lot of good shows.

It’s on Netflix 

Link to comment
×
×
  • Create New...