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S06.E06: True or False

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An alderman's wife is bludgeoned to death and Voight faces pressure from First Deputy Superintendent Brennan to resolve the case; in efforts to elicit a confession, Upton reveals a dark story that pertains to her childhood.

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Not a bad episode.. Actually thought for a while that somehow the abused daughter was gonna be revealed to be the killer somehow.. But then it became evident that it was gonna be the husband... Can't say im suprised that the show barely spent anytime on the fact that a perfectly innocent mentally unstable young man killed himself after a tough interrogation.. And the scenes we did get were just ppl telling Hayley it wasn't her fault.. Kudos to her for at least knowing a mistake was made while damn near every white man in sight was tripping over themselves to absolve her.. Also I woulda liked a follow up with the witness.. Not to bash her because she legitimately seemed to not wanna point the finger at the kid... But to highlight the iffy nature of cross racial identification 

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I really liked the episode.  I feel bad because I thought "wonder what his angle is" when the first suspect was being interrogated by Voight, Kevin and the rest.  And when he "confessed" I believed him.

The Ruzek/Upton situation interest me because he seems MUCH more into her then vice versa.  I think she likes Adam, but I think she is mainly with him for the stud service.  Whereas, he seems to genuinely care about her and his feelings are growing.

Adam/Kim always struck me as far more open, in terms of emotion. Certainly so on Kim's side.  Hailey isn't an ice Queen but she is purposely keeping Adam at arm's length.

Also liked the light that was she'd on Upton.  We usually do see her in control.  Very few times do I recall her raising her voice.  I guess we see where that level of restraint, came from.

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I thought it was a solid episode.  Had a feeling there was some truth to Upton's story about her dad.  Adam does seem much more into her than she is to him.  Thought he'd make a bigger deal out of Jay being there.  Thought Hailey and Jay were going to kiss for a second.

Voight was funny when telling Adam, if she continue's to have car problems.................. LOL!

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1 hour ago, Advance35 said:

. Certainly so on Kim's side.  Hailey isn't an ice Queen but she is purposely keeping Adam at arm's length.

I feel like the exact same sentence could have been used in the season two episode thread only replace Upton with Lindsey and Adam with Jay.

I like that the deviated from the obvious by putting Upton with Ruzek but now I'm starting to think it was just to create the worlds most childish triangle between Ruzek, Jay and her. 

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I actually really liked this episode. It didn't hit us over the head with Hailey's personal problems and only revealed them to the extent that they were relevant to the case. There wasn't a stupid obstructionist bureaucrat. It was just a case with some decent twists. As a person concerned with justice and civil rights issues, I would have liked an examination of the false confession, but I know better than to expect that from this show. The romantic entanglement is kind of silly, but at least it didn't take over the show.

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Just noticed it, but is Tracy Spirindakos 'Hailey" channeling Frances McDormand's  speech pattern/acting stye esp in 3 Billboards? 

Edited by sheetmoss

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5 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Not a bad episode.. Actually thought for a while that somehow the abused daughter was gonna be revealed to be the killer somehow.. But then it became evident that it was gonna be the husband... Can't say im suprised that the show barely spent anytime on the fact that a perfectly innocent mentally unstable young man killed himself after a tough interrogation.. And the scenes we did get were just ppl telling Hayley it wasn't her fault.. Kudos to her for at least knowing a mistake was made while damn near every white man in sight was tripping over themselves to absolve her.. Also I woulda liked a follow up with the witness.. Not to bash her because she legitimately seemed to not wanna point the finger at the kid... But to highlight the iffy nature of cross racial identification 

I wish we could have gotten a scenes of the grandmother confronting Haley. She seemed like the type tat would have cussed Haley's ass out and been a mouthpiece for the black audience. And of course those white dudes didn't rally care because what's another dead black person. Heaven forbid Atwater ever has a point of view. I mean damn they didn't even entertain that the kid could be telling the truth,

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Too many procedural problems in this one for me, and ironically, the one thing that tipped the scales in the story (Haley in the box with the initial suspect) was the part that actually rang true; she conducted a great interview and got the desired result. Retired cop and I were chatting about this today after breakfast and what she did in there was bang-on the right way to elicit a confession if the suspect hasn't lawyered up. Find his weakness, play to it and take your time. If he's weak, scared, or confused, he'll break.

But the problem is that once he got I.D.'d in the lineup, and after failing to budge with what it turned out to be his real story, they would have easily had enough evidence to charge him, pass him along to the State's Attorney's office and move on to the next case. They wouldn't have even bothered with a real lineup...it's not done like that any more anyways. Show a 6-pack, circle the suspect you identify, sign it and that's it. That's enough to get an arrest warrant.

That they found the Honda with the shot out back window would almost certainly be enough to secure a conviction, and they probably wouldn't have thought twice about the entire case. Tell the Alderman we got the guy, the evidence is solid, and walk away. The point is, there was no need to break him in questioning. Contrary to what many people think, a confession here would have been nothing more than icing on the cake. IRL, you gather the evidence, get a positive ID, bring the guy in and confront him. Give him a chance to "explain his side" and fill in details, maybe provide motive, tell you where the weapon is, and so on. If he keeps BSing, and you have enough other evidence, walk out and charge him, and that's it.

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2 hours ago, mommalib said:

 I mean damn they didn't even entertain that the kid could be telling the truth,

In a dramatic piece for TV, etc, that's definitely an issue. In real life, they simply follow the evidence. It's not the job of the (real) police to go to the ends of the earth to exonerate a suspect. If something happens to turn up in the normal course of an investigation then fine. But otherwise, their job is to investigate, charge, and testify to the facts of the investigation at trial. It would be up to the defense attorney to find that video surveillance from the park and (hopefully) any other evidence to clear his name.

I think most of us wish that if we were ever in an interrogation room, falsely accused of a crime, that the PD would jump through hoops to make sure they didn't lay a charge against an innocent person, but that's not how it works, for better or ill. Now I'm not talking about fabricating evidence or beating a forced confession out of someone, or holding them in a torture cage in the garage here, just normal investigatory work.

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8 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

But to highlight the iffy nature of cross racial identification 

Actually, eye witness testimony/identification of any kind, is some of the most unreliable evidence there is.  A dozen people can see the same thing, and all of them will have different versions of what happened.  They will all disagree on height, eye and hair color, number of people involved, etc.

4 hours ago, Chas411 said:

I feel like the exact same sentence could have been used in the season two episode thread only replace Upton with Lindsey and Adam with Jay.

I like that the deviated from the obvious by putting Upton with Ruzek but now I'm starting to think it was just to create the worlds most childish triangle between Ruzek, Jay and her. 

God, I hope not.

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I wasn't even mad at her getting the confession I mean at the time what evidence they had at least pointed at his direction . And with the pressure to put the bracelets on someone Upton saw something and went for it.. My issue was 1. They knew the kid wasn't totally right.. His affect was odd they all wondered aloud what was up with him.. He was there for hours and never lawyered up.. He talks about  suicide then basically right after confesses... Ok you don't have a reason to not believe  him ( although Kevin seemed less than 100 percent when he said I guess we go him to Voight) and  has  real huge emotional response.. How does no one out him on a suicide watch... And then the aftermath is Voight Halstead and Ruzek all watching and caring for Upton who at least had the self-awareness to know that while what she did was good and textbook it was also manipulative especially to a troubled young man... And our two minority characters.. I don't know if they really said anything after the kid was dead... 

On a completely different note. But unfortunately the same kinda issue with this show.. Atwater and Upton spoke words to each other... Dunno why they've been keeping her away from Atwater and I guess also Dawson.. But I could guess

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9 hours ago, Chas411 said:

I feel like the exact same sentence could have been used in the season two episode thread only replace Upton with Lindsey and Adam with Jay.

I like that the deviated from the obvious by putting Upton with Ruzek but now I'm starting to think it was just to create the worlds most childish triangle between Ruzek, Jay and her. 

As an Atwater fan I'm glad he's been spared the melodramatic romance storylines. I mean Halstead and Ruzek just seem to be used for whipping boys by emotionally dysfunctional women. (not that they haven't been spared the dysfunctional brush when the mood suits the writers).

They couldn't put Atwater and Upton together because Atwater is the 'nice' guy with no baggage and that wouldn't suit this angsty claptrap that they have dreamed up and tried to pass off as entertainment. 

Atwater hopefully gets spared that trope when they finally give him a love interest.

Edited by Guildford · Reason: spelling
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6 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

In a dramatic piece for TV, etc, that's definitely an issue. In real life, they simply follow the evidence. It's not the job of the (real) police to go to the ends of the earth to exonerate a suspect. If something happens to turn up in the normal course of an investigation then fine. But otherwise, their job is to investigate, charge, and testify to the facts of the investigation at trial. It would be up to the defense attorney to find that video surveillance from the park and (hopefully) any other evidence to clear his name.

I think most of us wish that if we were ever in an interrogation room, falsely accused of a crime, that the PD would jump through hoops to make sure they didn't lay a charge against an innocent person, but that's not how it works, for better or ill. Now I'm not talking about fabricating evidence or beating a forced confession out of someone, or holding them in a torture cage in the garage here, just normal investigatory work.

 

6 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

In a dramatic piece for TV, etc, that's definitely an issue. In real life, they simply follow the evidence. It's not the job of the (real) police to go to the ends of the earth to exonerate a suspect. If something happens to turn up in the normal course of an investigation then fine. But otherwise, their job is to investigate, charge, and testify to the facts of the investigation at trial. It would be up to the defense attorney to find that video surveillance from the park and (hopefully) any other evidence to clear his name.

I think most of us wish that if we were ever in an interrogation room, falsely accused of a crime, that the PD would jump through hoops to make sure they didn't lay a charge against an innocent person, but that's not how it works, for better or ill. Now I'm not talking about fabricating evidence or beating a forced confession out of someone, or holding them in a torture cage in the garage here, just normal investigatory work.

The kid asked her if she ever thought about killing herself, that should have been a red flag to her. But these cops be having tunnel vision and they forget that your human especially if you black.

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I really hope this Upton/Ruzek relationship goes away. The show does not NEED it. And especially in this episode, their was no chemistry at all between them in their scenes. Upton actually looked more comfortable with her partner than with Adam. And now the covering for one another is starting, when Ruzek lied to Voight about why Hailey didn't take the shot. This follows Hailey not mentioning to Voight right away about Ruzek seeing his dad working for the dealer last week, and Adam asking her not to report it just because it's him.  Ugh. And if they weren't sleeping together, there is no way Hailey let's Ruzek pull her out of an interview when she outranks him. I expected her to say "Officer Ruzek, I'm not done yet. Back off."

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And yet her behavior in that interview was inappropriate.  SHe could have asked the girl about the black eye in a different tone of voice, more gentle and compassionate, and the dad probably wouldn't have reacted so strongly and the girl may have answered her.  But her emotions were in charge, so she went in too hot and aggressive, and that was hurting all aspects of the interview, not just her interest in possible child abuse.

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Lindsey had her issues but I think Upton is a much bigger emotional shipwreck (and I say that as someone who likes the character), Hailey just has nice wrapping paper (usually her composure and visible state of mind is well tempered).   I thought Lindsey was able to seamlessly connect with the rest of the team, whereas Hailey seems to connect no more then necessary. Last year, after everything that happened with that Booth guy, even though she was near tears, she still brushed Jay off and wouldn't answer when he asked if she was in love with the guy Booth murdered years before.

During her relationship with Jay, I thought Lindsey was very open about personal matters that she carried with her. Contrast that with Hailey who opened up about some heavy baggage, only when she could weaponize it against a suspect. 

I thought the nail in Jay/Lindsey's coffin was when he dropped her shortly after his "wife" came back.  

Ruzek will have a much steeper hill to climb if he ever wants to Upton to care for him. I think he may end up getting his heart shredded before all this is over.

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On ‎11‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 12:23 AM, Guildford said:

As an Atwater fan I'm glad he's been spared the melodramatic romance storylines.

I still like Atwater and Finn (L&O SVU), and I think this is probably why.  I can only take so much dysfunction and drama for a character, before I get bored, and don't want to see it anymore.  I want more scenes of Atwater, but I don't want him to end up looking like a pathetic jackass (which is how I see Adam and Jay).

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2 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I still like Atwater and Finn (L&O SVU), and I think this is probably why.  I can only take so much dysfunction and drama for a character, before I get bored, and don't want to see it anymore.  I want more scenes of Atwater, but I don't want him to end up looking like a pathetic jackass (which is how I see Adam and Jay).

Its kinda double edged tho because then they get background stuff until we get some "super duper black" story and then they're pushed front and center... More so Atwater than Fin.. But also him... So until its black guy episode they are basically just even tempered guys who pip in and dissapear... We rarely get to see them emote... I dunno if its incompetent writers... Or fear of seeming to portray ppl of color in a negative light.. But a way to fix that is to just put more fully realized characters of color in the episodes.. Then you can have all sorts of emotions... But if they stick to just one of us until the blk/latin etc episode Atwater/Fin/Dawson etc.. Are kinda shelved... 

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20 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

 I dunno if its incompetent writers... Or fear of seeming to portray ppl of color in a negative light.. 

I think it's both of these tbh.. which seems odd because they are happy to have more than there fair share of bad guys be people of colour and run with that trope but Atwater, when he is written is starting to be too far the other way, they are very close to making him saintlike. I am not saying I want him to be an flake, like they love to write Halstead & Ruzek most of the time, but come on make him human at least......and that I think comes back to the incompetence of the writers.

Edited by Guildford · Reason: spelling

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16 hours ago, Guildford said:

I think it's both of these tbh.. which seems odd because they are happy to have more than there fair share of bad guys be people of colour and run with that trope but Atwater, when he is written is starting to be too far the other way, they are very close to making him saintlike. I am not saying I want him to be an flake, like they love to write Halstead & Ruzek most of the time, but come on make him human at least......and that I think comes back to the incompetence of the writers.

Not sure I follow your line of thinking.  You are upset that Atwater is a straight and narrow, by-the-book cop who doesn't toe the line?  I don't understand what him being black has anything to do with it.  If you had a whole unit of corrupt cops, then how is that interesting?  The drama surfaces because you have Antonio playing it straight vs. Voight's questionable tactics.  Atwater was more than willing to watch Burgess allow that perp to die and not say anything, more because of his loyalty to Burgess rather than anything more sinister.  

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My apologies if I didn't make my point very well. I am not upset that Atwater is the by-the -book cop and I was answering in context to the previous comment of the writers being '.. fear of seeming to portray ppl of color in a negative light..'

I am not sure why being more human means being corrupt? The way they portray Atwater at the moment is he never makes a mistake, and he wasn't always written this way. To me to seems they are pushing him too far down the 'perfect person' route while everyone else is making mistakes after mistake and doing dumb things or makes the wrong call whereas Atwater always makes the right call all the time. That is not realistic when you are dealing with criminals, people on edge, people trying to survive. They can still have him being the good by-the-book cop and I like that about him but I'd like to see him have some things not turn out all sunshine and roses all the time. (Yes I know his family was sent away but what fallout/effect did that have on him...nothing. He was stabbed in the leg and held captive...but no follow up and at the end of the day that was to show how he turned that cop hating Dad into someone who blamed himself for his own son's death and put him on the path to redemption...I found that a bit too all wrapped up in a nice neat bow and I would have liked to see some follow up or fallout from that.)

From my perspective it's quite jarring and I would like a bit more balance to his character. Particularly at the moment they seem to only bring him to the forefront to show how bad everyone else is behaving (which is another gripe of mine).

I hope that clarifies things a little.

Edited by Guildford · Reason: .
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Did anyone else think that the suspect was on the autism spectrum, or something similar?  I definitely thought that was the angle that they were going for at first, and I still think that might have played a part.

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I don't think I can continue with this show.  Everyone is just so damn unlikeable now.   I want to punch Adam, and Upton.  Ugh.,   I haven't warmed up to her and she just keeps getting worse for me.  The only ones I can stand are Atwater and Burgess. 

 

I feel like this is a theme for all the Chicago shows though.  Almost everyone on Med I can't deal with anymore either.  They are all judgemental unprofessional aholes. 

 

Let me know when Kevin gets a lead story and I'll tune in.  Otherwise, I am out.

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On 11/1/2018 at 3:26 PM, Chas411 said:

I feel like the exact same sentence could have been used in the season two episode thread only replace Upton with Lindsey and Adam with Jay.

IMO Lindsay and Halstead were always into one another - and fairly equally. The only real reason for any resistance was their fear of losing their jobs.

Neither Ruzek nor Upton seem too concerned about any of that, which is rather surprising, considering Ruzek not only went through it with Burgess but witnessed the Linstead issues, and Upton has - til this - seemed smarter than risking her career for a fling.

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On 11/1/2018 at 2:27 PM, SuzieQ said:

I thought it was a solid episode.  Had a feeling there was some truth to Upton's story about her dad.  Adam does seem much more into her than she is to him.  Thought he'd make a bigger deal out of Jay being there.  Thought Hailey and Jay were going to kiss for a second.

Voight was funny when telling Adam, if she continue's to have car problems.................. LOL!

Love how Adam hesitated, then just turned and walked away without a word - what could he say? He knew they were busted.

I knew Hailey was telling the truth about her dad. Sad, and I felt bad for the kid, even when it was likely he was guilty. I get why everyone was telling her she did nothing wrong, but if I were Upton I'd still feel soul-crushingly horrible about what happened. 

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