S05.E05: The Depth Of Grief

[Dee]

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Lucious and Cookie prep their new artist Devon for a premiere listening party, but worry he may not be ready for that kind of pressure. Hakeem is determined to convince Tiana that he's matured, but she has a hard time letting go of everything they've struggled through the past couple years. Meanwhile, Cookie becomes concerned about Jamal.

[wanderingstar]

How sweet was Jamal and Kai's proposal scene? They got me choked up. 

Tiana has put up with a lot from Hakeem. Don't blame her for being fed up.

That Kingsley is cruising for a bruising.

[tennisgurl]

Kai is alright! And he and Jamal are engaged! That was so cute, I actually got a little emotional. "You stole my thunder." I really liked their whole plot, with Cookie realizing that she needs to trust Jamal to take care of himself and that Kai loves him and wont be backing off any time soon. 

Tiana seems ti be handling things really well, especially with Hakeem freaking out. I dont blame her for storming out, she has been taking care of the kids, working on her new music, AND dealing with Hakeem and his issues. Hakeem has always taken trauma or losing people badly, and tried to get "tough" and it never works out. 

Weird seeing Lucious actually being the reprehensible parent! Kingsley is not gonna be long for this world, is he?

[Rebky]

Ok, I'm confused.  I did not realize Tiana was carrying twins.  How did I miss that? Wow...

Edited November 1, 2018 by Rebky

[mtlchick]

As much as the dual proposal was sweet, Lucious telling Cookie that she can't tell Jamal what to do with his love life was more heartfelt considering for years he was repulsed in having a gay son.  

 

That said, if Jamal and Kai's proposal and his HIV status was supposed to be the game changer that Jussie had been teasing in pre show interviews, I feel that was kind of a let down.

 

Aside: do they still own Leviticus? 

[Jeopardy15]

I’m so glad the Cookie’s ignorance didn’t persuade Kia to leave Jamal. That proposal was EVERYTHING!???

[Dee]

This show is seriously ROCKING on ALL cylinders! Keep it up Empire!

[Biggie B]

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Weird seeing Lucious actually being the reprehensible parent!

Did you mean 'responsible' instead of 'reprehensible'? Lucious was the voice of reason and tolerance.

I was very surprised to learn that Tiana and Hakeem had twins and that one of them died. Wow - quite sad. I thought that Hakeem's gun might've come into play when he got into it with Blake. 

Kai and Jamal's proposals were terrific. I hope we get to see their wedding, and I want Becky to be the maid of honor. 

[ahpny]

There may not be much overlap between the audiences for Empire now and that of Queer as Folk 15 years ago, but the Jamal-Kai plot seems lifted almost without change from that series of a decade and a half ago. All of these points are common to both:

·        An adorable, admirable and generally good gay son has an overbearing, and overprotective mother who accepted him always when many others didn’t.

·        The good gay son finds a nice (and hot!) boyfriend who seems almost too perfect in all respects, save one.

·        That one is of course he’s HIV+.

·        The otherwise sympathetic and gay-friendly mother takes offense at the idea of the HIV+ boyfriend dating her precious HIV- son and seemingly rejects rational medical concern and refuses to believe that the relationship can proceed without undue danger to her son.

·        The mother bluntly confronts the HIV+ boyfriend and demands that he break it off to keep her son safe.

·        The HIV+ boyfriend (and the son) both refuse the mother’s breakup demands and stand firm.

·        The charming (and hot!) HIV+ boyfriend nevertheless wins over the overbearing mother when she realizes how truly he does love her son.

Also, if Lucius really cared about Cookie as much as he says he does, he wouldn’t be feeding his heart-attack-surviving wife Philly cheese steaks. They’re pretty much a cardiologist’s worst nightmare. And where was the cheese anyway?

[Vixenstud]

5 hours ago, Biggie B said:

Kai and Jamal's proposals were terrific. I hope we get to see their wedding, and I want Becky to be the maid of honor. 

Damn them for making me cry!  

43 minutes ago, ahpny said:

Also, if Lucius really cared about Cookie as much as he says he does, he wouldn’t be feeding his heart-attack-surviving wife Philly cheese steaks. They’re pretty much a cardiologist’s worst nightmare. And where was the cheese anyway?

I'm from Philly but I mentioned that as well!

So I take it the girl twin would have been named Princess?  Couldn't see the name over the pink.

I'm sorry but wasn't moved by Tiana's 'acting' when she broke up with Hakeem, again.....just walk then, heiffa!!

[Biggie B]

I thought Lucious was making the cheese steaks for himself. He was done making them when Cookie came into the kitchen and said she could tell something must be upsetting him, since cheese steaks are his go-to comfort meal. No way of knowing whether he was making them just for himself or for both of them. And hey, Cookie not only took some for herself but then took his portion, too! I am a female heart attack survivor (was 44 when I had mine) and unless Cookie's eating those cheese steaks regularly, one serving (even a big one!) isn't going to move the needle much, so long as her usual diet is more heart-healthy. 

[journalism16]

I loved this episode, it was great to see Jamal so happy and I'm glad  he and Kai are engaged.It was so sad to see that Tiana and Hakeem were having twins,and then to lose Princess was heartbreaking to watch. But Tiana has put up with a lot from Hakeem, and I don't blame for being fed up with how he is acting. But I'm glad she will be there for Bella, and raise Prince. And she is also trying to help him with his issues.

 

I am happy that Cookie and Andre had a talk about his time in prison, it was really sweet. But I can't wait to see next week's episode.

[Vixenstud]

Forgot to mention....dang but Tiana's body is banging, she looked great in her underwear!

[Empress1]

23 hours ago, Vixenstud said:

So I take it the girl twin would have been named Princess?  Couldn't see the name over the pink.

I think so, and ... yikes. I actually have known people named Prince and Princess but they weren't related, let alone twins.

Hakeem really does not take loss well - he's very immature overall. I think he's only supposed to be about 21-22 in show time so he comes by his immaturity honestly, but Tiana's probably around the same age and she doesn't have the luxury of wilding out. Neither should Hakeem.

I liked Andre realizing that the people in prison were just people like him, and I'm interested in how he'll help the young man he promised to help. (I hope he doesn't sleep with the mother.)

Of all the things I like about this show, the way Taraji delivers the line "Boy ..." might be my favorite. She says it every episode and she always does great things with it.

[wanderingstar]

This episode had so much going on emotionally and character-wise. I particularly liked the Tiana/Hakeem story. I especially appreciated them showing the medical staff disregarding her wishes during her labor and the consequences of that disregard. It's clear that Tiana has carried much of the emotional load of the loss of their baby, and she was right to call out Hakeem on how unfair he has been to her.

I thought last season that Hakeem had grown slightly, but he has regressed a lot this season. I get why he has given the losses he's experienced, but it is still disappointing.

I also loved the conversation between Andre and Cookie. He finally gets what she experienced in prison.

This was just a really good, character-driven episode.

[crowceilidh]

I'm a little confused.  So, the absolutely full grown coffin that Lucious has been lowering over since the beginning of the season is for a newborn baby?  Or are there two different deaths?

[Dee]

Two different deaths.

Hakeem & Tiana's daughter, Princess, died some time during the two year time jump.

The coffin Lucious has been hovering around, in the flash forwards this season, is for a death that will happen six months removed from Empire's current timeline.