S10.E04: Who's Sorry Now?

[FormerMod-a1]

Quote

Now a certified psychic, Jack channels Rosario to help Karen open her heart to love again; Grace learns love means having to say you're sorry... to Will.

Air date: October 25, 2018

[mtlchick]

I normally don't cry at sitcoms but the last 10 minutes had me tearing up.  

For all the faults the reboots have had, it's moments like these that remind you why it was a landmark show then and is still an important show now. 

Jack being the embodiment of Rosario was awesome.

[JNM5505]

Got those old ship-gay-guy-with-straight-girl feels.

The episode would have been A+ if it weren't for Jack and Karen.

Now want to watch those episodes which Will and Grace reference to. But I think my DVDs are gone.

Edited October 26, 2018 by JNM5505

[festivus]

I was kind of bored with Will and Grace's story but then they brought it at the end. That was really well done. 

[Annber03]

Agreed on the ending with Will and Grace. That was really sweet and touching. 

27 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

Jack being the embodiment of Rosario was awesome.

It was eerie how spot on his impression was. I especially loved him arguing with Karen the way Rosario used to :p. 

[Tanichka]

I was under the impression that this was a sitcom.  This episode sucked.

[AntiBeeSpray]

1 hour ago, mtlchick said:

I normally don't cry at sitcoms but the last 10 minutes had me tearing up.  

For all the faults the reboots have had, it's moments like these that remind you why it was a landmark show then and is still an important show now. 

Jack being the embodiment of Rosario was awesome.

Loved that bit! Jack had Rosario's essence down. So well done.

The episode as a whole was really good. Gave nice windows into the characters themselves.

[SnarkEnthusiast]

Wow, Grace had self-introspection for once. I liked her saying that Will being gay improved her life rather than ruining it, with the implication that their friendship became much stronger and is worth infinitely more to her than the romance he denied her (in her mind, especially at that time, she seems to have always perceived his coming out as intentionally leading her on and humiliating her on a whim when he couldn't stomach her sexually anymore, as opposed to him grappling with his own self-loathing and on some level trying to make the relationship work romantically because he did love her). This was a really important revelation for Grace to have, especially because her entire character is more or less formulated around sexual bitterness and the "delusional straight woman" trope of perpetually hoping that there could be romantic potential there again. She does always seem to kind of be waiting around to see if Will decides to climb back down the Kinsey scale, so hopefully this puts an end to her guilt tripping and like Will said, blaming all their fights on the Original Sin of Will leaving her.

Admittedly, given the wacky supernatural hijinks of the Jack/Karen plot, I thought the thunderstorm would factor into the Will/Grace plot by jolting them into a parallel timeline where Will and Grace had gotten married and Will was still in the closet. I always think the occasional little dance that the show does around actual romantic subtext between Will and Grace is interesting, even if it's been well-established as more dysfunctional codependency than anything else. I'm reminded of the original run episode where Will goes to therapy after having sex dreams about Grace. It fascinates me that they continue to be reluctant to totally close that door, although I guess in the 90s you could chalk it up to needing to appease or appeal to straight female viewers.

While Sean Hayes is a master of both physical comedy and line delivery (ITSNOTFAKEKAREN!), sometimes I think the writers think Jack is more adorable than he actually is and lean into that a little too hard. He's pushing 50, so it's weird that they have him flouncing around like a 13-year-old trying out new hobbies every week. With that said, the Jack/Karen/Rosario moment and especially the kiss was very sweet and heartfelt. It actually felt like Karen and Rosario finally getting a chance to have a proper goodbye.

Edited October 26, 2018 by SnarkEnthusiast
mixed up the Kinsey scale lol

[Annber03]

20 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Admittedly, given the wacky supernatural hijinks of the Jack/Karen plot, I thought the thunderstorm would factor into the Will/Grace plot by jolting them into a parallel timeline where Will and Grace had gotten married and Will was still in the closet. 

Oh, wow. That would've been interesting. 

[bichonblitz]

Eric Mc saves this show. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by bichonblitz

[TV Diva Queen]

Wow - I actually enjoyed that.  The image of Rosie gave me the chills.  :) 

[Tosia]

I like all of them.  Jack may be almost 50, but he does  some really funny physical comedy. 

Grace was properly obtuse to Will's hints at apologizing, and seems to be very needy, insecure,  or lacking this season.

. Will is the wonderfully earnest Mary Tyler Moore straight (haha)  character to the buffoonery and craziness around him. 

 Karen was Karen, although a little too sweet about never loving again--especially after all the jokes about Stan and playing around on him over the years--and now she really loves him?

FLOVE the Will and Grace's apartment!

[theredhead77]

Loved it. For all the re-con and seeming stagnant lives they sure have grown. The last 10 minutes were so powerful, completely fit within the show but also a message to all the "Graces" out there. 

[iMonrey]

Another episode aired out of sequence! Grace says she plans to put the cardboard cut-out of herself in the lobby of such-and-such a place and that's exactly where it was in the season premier when they introduced David Schwimmer. I don't know why they're showing all these episodes out of a rather obvious order but I guess they really wanted to promote David Schwimmer's guest appearance this season.

I'm not sure how I feel about how justified Will felt about being abandoned by Grace. I understand they myriad complications in his personal situation but the fact is that he's the one who was lying, between the two of them, about their relationship. I understand why and the reasoning and have sympathy for what he was going through, but Grace was in fact the victim as far as the relationship goes. That said I was touched to have her see his side of it.

[willowk]

Such a good episode -I loved the realization Grace had that she failed to support Will when he needed it most, and being able to finally understand it was not all about her. Jack as Rosario was priceless. Although having her ghost make an actual appearance was rather cheesy IMO. iMonrey-you're right, the ep was out of sequence, I didn't think about it until I read your post. It seems clear that they originally meant The "Where in the world is Karen Walker ep to be #1, last night's episode to be #2, The Schwimmer ep number 3 and the Texas ep 4. Why they changed it up that much is puzzling.

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Another episode aired out of sequence! Grace says she plans to put the cardboard cut-out of herself in the lobby of such-and-such a place and that's exactly where it was in the season premier when they introduced David Schwimmer. I don't know why they're showing all these episodes out of a rather obvious order but I guess they really wanted to promote David Schwimmer's guest appearance this season.

I'm not sure how I feel about how justified Will felt about being abandoned by Grace. I understand they myriad complications in his personal situation but the fact is that he's the one who was lying, between the two of them, about their relationship. I understand why and the reasoning and have sympathy for what he was going through, but Grace was in fact the victim as far as the relationship goes. That said I was touched to have her see his side of it.

[TiredMe]

I totally teared up at the end. Those two have such chemistry (friend chemistry). I’m so glad they came back to my screen.

Edited October 26, 2018 by TiredMe

[memememe76]

Since the reboot, the show has one episode per season where I end up tearing up. Even with the sentiment, that "Doesn't that feel good?" was a damn hilarious line.

[Claire85]

I like that this episode showed us that coming out was actually painful and frightening for Will, not just awkward (like flashbacks in the original series when he goes clubbing with Jack). I started to cry when Grace talks about him writing that he wanted to hurt himself, and Will can’t answer at first, and then can only say, “It was a long time ago.” 

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Claire85 said:

I started to cry when Grace talks about him writing that he wanted to hurt himself, and Will can’t answer at first, and then can only say, “It was a long time ago.” 

God, yes. That was heartbreaking. Especially the quiet way in which he said it.

[link417]

On 10/26/2018 at 1:08 PM, iMonrey said:

Another episode aired out of sequence! Grace says she plans to put the cardboard cut-out of herself in the lobby of such-and-such a place and that's exactly where it was in the season premier when they introduced David Schwimmer.

I thought she put a cutout in the lobby of the apartment building in the premiere? Jack walked in pretending he didn’t live there and that neighbor said she was just coming through the lobby to get her mail.

ETA: This episode she was going to put it in the lobby of the design union.

16 hours ago, memememe76 said:

Since the reboot, the show has one episode per season where I end up tearing up. Even with the sentiment, that "Doesn't that feel good?" was a damn hilarious line.

Yes! I literally laughed out loud when I was making a conscious effort not to (laughter and spicy food are not kind to my esophagus). That and the “uncanny resemblance” hand gesture from Karen were the funniest parts of the episode for me.

Grace’s revelation was so touching, I was nearly in tears. Debra and Eric were great in that scene, not overdone and not underwhelming.

Edited October 27, 2018 by link417

[JNM5505]

10 hours ago, Claire85 said:

I like that this episode showed us that coming out was actually painful and frightening for Will, not just awkward (like flashbacks in the original series when he goes clubbing with Jack). I started to cry when Grace talks about him writing that he wanted to hurt himself, and Will can’t answer at first, and then can only say, “It was a long time ago.” 

This actually makes sense for a gay man coming out of the closet in the 1980s. Homophobia was at its worst during that time with the recurrence of AIDS and probably other issues that I was too young (a matter of months in age) to remember. I would love to see more flashbacks of Will angst, because I think EMC does it well. Sure, this is a sitcom and I haven't seen EMC in other roles besides Will Truman, but I think he can handle drama and angst pretty damn well.

Also the "does it feel good" got me saying "God, Grace, you are such a bitch." but then I saw someone else's post. While I agree with them that Grace was the victim, Will was not in a very good place and Grace was his best friend. She probably made Will feel comfortable and secure enough to the point where he could confide in her about being gay during a time when the word gay would get you raped and killed by a mob. So, I think it was very brave of him!

I don't see this show as much of a sit-com (never see sit-coms as sit-coms) as much a drama. Especially with Will and Grace, which is why I'm not so fond of Jack and Karen. They bring more of the obnoxious laughter while Will and Grace bring the drama and intense feels for the most part. I think EMC and Debra M have such amazing chemistry together.