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S01.E10: Chapter Ten: The Witching Hour

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My favorite character by far was Zelda played by Miranda Otto. I also really liked Ambrose. I am hoping that Kiernan Shipka grows into the character and does a much better job in the next 10 episodes.

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1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I found myself preferring all the witch stuff over the boring high school drama stuff.

I'm hoping they can integrate them better by forming a Scooby Gang. (I really miss Buffy.)

Out of all the new witch shows, I like this one the best but now we have to wait so long to see more.

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Overall I thought the story was weird and felt all kinds of wrong, but I still watched every one of them, so I don't know what that says about me. I just like shows about witches and magic even when they're this dark and Satanic. 

I was disappointed that Sabrina signing the book was not revealed to her aunts or Ambrose. I'm looking forward to their reactions to that.

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Love the addition of cousin Ambrose.  I never read the comics, was he in there?

He's in the comics but the reason for his house arrest is different. So is the nature of Salem, for that matter.

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Did they just sort of drop the storyline of a witch hunter on the loose - the one who killed the boy Ambrose worked on and whose familiar (the iguana) he inherited? 

Yes, they sort of abandoned that story. I had forgotten all about it until you mentioned it. Will be interested to see if it's picked up again next season. 

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Lilith is intriguing, although she doesn't seem particularly powerful, considering she is the Mother of Demons.

It seems to me that witches should be able to tell whether or not someone else is a witch or a demon in disguise. The Spellmans took Miss Wardwell at face value a little too easily if you ask me - especially Zelda, who seems the most intuitive and suspicious of the group. The ease with which Miss Wardwell ingratiated herself into their lives felt a little too convenient. You would at least think someone would mention how different she had become so suddenly, with her hairstyle and posture and behavior.

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I though they specifically talked about being high priest... that other children could challenge for it. There may be more to it that we don't know.... like if you die you're out (which I suppose could lead to us finding out Blackwood played a role in killing sabrina's parents) but if you step down you can give the title to your child or something random like that.... 

They really haven't explained this very well given our collective confusion. My take on it, based on the fact that Zelda feared for the elder, female twin, is that a first-born heir takes precedence regardless of whether it's male or female, so the girl twin would be in line to be the next High Priestess. I'm guessing that prior to the twins' birth Prudence had a somewhat tenuous claim to the title even if illegitimate, but she's bumped down in the line of succession behind any legitimate heirs. 

As for why Sabrina is not next in line since her father was high priest, it may be that her claim was denied since she was half-mortal. If the title is indeed hereditary as it seems to be, it follows that Father Blackwell and Edward Spellman shared some sort of common ancestry which made Blackwell next in line after any Spellman offspring.

I'm confused how long witches are supposed to live - have they specified that? Hundreds of years? It struck me that Zelda said the Spellman ancestors were partially responsible for what happened to the hanged 13. That would only have been about 400 years ago at most. How many generations separated them in that case? I would have guessed those "ancestors" would be either Zelda and Hilda's parents, or grandparents at most.

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On 11/7/2018 at 9:29 PM, iMonrey said:

I'm confused how long witches are supposed to live - have they specified that? Hundreds of years? It struck me that Zelda said the Spellman ancestors were partially responsible for what happened to the hanged 13. That would only have been about 400 years ago at most. How many generations separated them in that case? I would have guessed those "ancestors" would be either Zelda and Hilda's parents, or grandparents at most.

It is very confusing. Ambrose taught Harry Houdini his stage stage magic. Houdini died in 1926. Yet, Ambrose looks at most 20 while Hilda and Zelda look late 40s.  Have we been given an accurate date for the setting of the show. 

Thoughts:

I did feel bad for Zelda that Hilda planned to move out of their room, but I don't understand why they shared a bedroom anyway.

I know Sabrina is being lied to about her parents' deaths but Limbo Diana was saying that took Sabrina from her right after her baptism as a newborn.

I understand Roz's abilities, but Susie's abilities I don't understand at all. Is she really seeing her Aunt Dorothea or is reading the journals getting to her?

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2 hours ago, Kuther2000 said:

I understand Roz's abilities, but Susie's abilities I don't understand at all. Is she really seeing her Aunt Dorothea or is reading the journals getting to her?

I think Susie must be talking to Dorothea, otherwise she really wouldn't have a super power. Roz has visions and Harvey is a Witch Hunter. They must work together with Sabrina to take down the Dark Lord. My money is on the Dark Lord.

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On 10/31/2018 at 4:44 AM, methodwriter85 said:

I feel like I'm the only one who actually likes Harvey,

I'm with you. I have always liked the character, as far back as the sit-com. I'm unfamiliar with this actor, but I'm going to try to keep an eye on his work, because I've been impressed.

I don't know how I feel about Sabrina being manipulated into signing the Book Of The Beast in order to save the town, but I'm pretty sure I hate it.

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2 hours ago, Last Time Lord said:

I'm with you. I have always liked the character, as far back as the sit-com. I'm unfamiliar with this actor, but I'm going to try to keep an eye on his work, because I've been impressed.

I don't know how I feel about Sabrina being manipulated into signing the Book Of The Beast in order to save the town, but I'm pretty sure I hate it.

I'm going to assume though that Sabrina isn't going to be nearly as obedient as they thought she would be once she signed the book.

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9 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I'm going to assume though that Sabrina isn't going to be nearly as obedient as they thought she would be once she signed the book.

I find Sabrina far more interesting when she's flirting with her dark side so I am excited about this turn of events. 

I also think it was the perfect way to get her to sign the book. If she'd done it because she wanted to, it would change who she is as a character and if she didn't sign it, she would never believably grow strong enough to fight the fight that is obviously coming. 

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Does anyone think that perhaps Sabrina’s parents purposefully baptized her and signed her name in the book of the beast because they foresaw Sabrina being forced to sign the book and this was a way to protect her?

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I just finished the series last night.  Weirdly the thing that bothers me the most (although not the only thing that bothers me) is the Kinkle family owning the mine.  In fact, everything relating to the mine bothered me.  First, if they owned a mine, they would be relatively wealthy and they wouldn't actually work the mine.  I mean, I admit that most of my knowledge of mining is from watching the first few seasons of Justified but ... seriously.  Second, I understand the retro aesthetic of the show but the 1940s coal-mining equipment is pushing it a bit too far. Third, if there is a mine collapse the owner can't just declare everyone dead after like 24 hours and hold a funeral.  The general absence of police or any authority/regulatory officials in the whole show is jarring but COME ON.  I can suspend my disbelief on the School for Unseen Arts more readily than for that.

I agree that Sabrina is a weak link in the show.  I appreciate her being confident and pushing forward despite odds but resurrecting the dead is beyond the pale in any understanding of the world.  The fact that she did it, that she thought she could outwit the balance of nature by offering a soul and then taking it back, is a level of confidence too far.  She really thinks the rules don't apply to her and I don't know that the fallout was enough for her to get it.  The very next episode, within thirty seconds of Hilda saying "I can't hold this much longer", she abandoned her!!  Like, WTH??

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1 hour ago, dusang said:

The fact that she did it, that she thought she could outwit the balance of nature by offering a soul and then taking it back, is a level of confidence too far. 

Yeah, it was bad enough that she thought she was powerful enough after studying magic for what, ten seconds, to think she could bring someone back from the dead, but to then think she can not only pull this complex magic off but that she can also trick the universe by not really offering the other soul she promised? UGH She lost me completely in that moment, and this is why I 100% don't give a damn that she got manipulated into signing the book. She, herself, is a manipulative little shit, so if she can dish it, she can sit there and take it. 

I just hope she has to suffer the consequences of her many bad decisions before getting to be the great saviour of her coven. BLECH. To be honest, if it's a battle between her and Lilith, I'm totally on team Lilith. lol

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On ‎11‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 7:27 PM, Squirt said:

So I watched the first 10 episodes and the more I got into the show the more I enjoyed it. Once they got into the Mining accident I was entrenched in the show and the dark character development for several of the characters. Yeah, the show is dark but that is what I expected with it. I am looking forward to the next 10 episodes. Does anyone know when they will be available on Netflix?

I was watching something on hulu yesterday (or maybe CW app? basically place with ads lol) I got up to get smth to drink so I didn't see it, but I heard it was an ad for "season 2 of Sabrina coming soon on Netflix"

I also got a notification from my tv shows tracking app that there will be a Christmas special...

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Wrong place to put this but here you go.

Chilling Adventures of Sabrina: A Midwinter’s Tale     Dec. 14

As for next month’s Sabrina holiday episode, while it’s being marketed as a special, it’s technically the 11th of 20 episodes Netflix ordered when it first greenlit the series. The remaining nine episodes of season one are finishing up production now and are expected to be released sometime in 2019. 

https://www.vulture.com/2018/11/chilling-adventures-of-sabrina-christmas-episode.html

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I liked the premise of the show and I will continue to watch - but the quite dark satanist setting vs. the young adult storylines didn't mix well enough for me. That being said, the humor that was woven into the stories along with replacing all sayings with their satanist-equivalten was thoroughly entertaining. I also thought the acting was great all around - Miranda Otto and Richard Coyle were outstanding. And I agree that the addition of Ambrose was a good choice - he is basically the replacement for Salem, who doesn't talk (pitty, I love a sarcastic cat)

The make up on this show however was really really really bad - especially on Lucy Davis and Tati Gabrielle, their faces always had a greenish tint. It was so distracting and they need to fix that asap.

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34 minutes ago, Aulty said:

The make up on this show however was really really really bad - especially on Lucy Davis and Tati Gabrielle, their faces always had a greenish tint. It was so distracting and they need to fix that asap.

I know. I thought I was the only one who noticed. I actually that Hilda's face tint was very yellowish at times as well.

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This show only works when Sabrina flirts with the dark side.   She can’t just say my way or the high way.  I am surprised any  of the adults let her take it as far as she did.  Having her continually outwit evil was what annoys me the most.  A teenager outwitting the Devil?  Maybe getting lucky once.....but the show only works for me if it’s more of a dance between them which means she has to sign the book and get outwitted occasionally and lose big.  

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Really bummed that Sabrina had to lose the human side of herself, especially because it wasnt because she chose to, but instead she was tricked by Lilith.?

I hope that she doesnt turn into another Prudence, but I doubt they would do that to us?

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I thought the series started off really weak but finished strong over the last 3-4 episodes when the stakes got ramped up, the characters started to seem less like cardboard cutouts, Sabrina finally became likable, & there were actual consequences for both the story & the people in it.

At first I was just having fun playing Diversity Bingo. So, she's talking to her African-American friend about their LGBTQ friend & she casually mentions her Jewish friend's Bar Mitzvah & her Mexican friend's Quinceañera. So far so good. But where's the standard-issue gay best friend? Ah, it's her cousin who's a different race! Hmmm... we haven't had an interracial couple yet - there they are! Now, what race are the Weird sisters? All of them you say?!? Bingo! 

I also thought Sabrina started off as too much of a Mary Sue. Perfect in every way, all the boys want to date her, all the girls are either her friend or jealous of her. All the adults respect her. She defies & outwits the Devil of all people (albeit with some help). She stands up to every authority figure, never faces any real consequences for it, & almost always gets the authority figure to back down.  She's great at witchcraft, is apparently The Chosen One or something, & is never wrong about anything.  Anyone who doubts her or dislikes her is shown to be wrong or evil (or both).  Plus she complained all the time about people lying to her while lying to (even mind-wiping) her boyfriend & her best friends.

But then the last 3-4 episodes came along & all that started to change.  She started to fail, to have "good" people disagree with her choices, to have her boyfriend complain that she lied to him (I don't think she ever did see the irony in that, though).  She was the one getting manipulated, & I actually liked seeing her "go dark" a bit.  The fake sacrifice with one of the Weird sisters was surprising, not because of the actual fake out plan, but that Sabrina would slit the girl's throat like that, even given the fake out plan.

I guess we needed to see her get there, but I found endgame Sabrina so much more interesting than perfect, milquetoast Sabrina from the beginning of the show.  Plus the storylines really seemed to  be going somewhere instead of existing just to check off boxes.  I'm looking forward to a Season 2 now that she's signed the book.

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This was definitely not the Sabrina I grew up with, but I still really enjoyed it. I thought the first few episodes were a bit flabby, but the last arc was really strong, and I am super excited to see where it goes next. I much prefer the witch stuff, and it looks like next season will focus on that more, so I am all for that! Sabrina can be really infuriating, but I think it makers sense. She is a teenager after all, and a lot of teens can be self important, and self involved. 

So Lilith huh? Oh yeah, that should be fun! I think that the Dark Lord might end up screwing her over though, and she could end up trying to usurp him if he tries to promote Sabrina over her. The Coven, despite having about equal male and female members, seems to still be a patriarchal society, especially with Lord Blackwood and his obsession with having a son. I think thats going to become a theme next season, with the female members trying to take more power, which sounds promising. I am also suspicious of Ambroses boyfriend. Didn't Nick say it was hard for them to fall in love? Was he just saying that to get Ambrose closer to Blackwood, or is it possible for a witch/warlock to fall in love, and its just hard?

So, is Nick (I mean, Nick Scratch? Was Lucy Fer taken?) actually the Dark Lord? One of his offspring? Or just a bad boy for Sabrina in contrast for nice, normal Harvey, and thats just a common name for magic families to give their sons? Apparently Sabrina is officially friendemies with the Weird Sisters! She even got to borrow their clothes!

I guess Hilda's new boyfriend is some kind of magic being ass well, I hope he isnt just after Hilda as part of some scheme. She seems so happy! I loved all of the Spellman family dynamics. Zelda is probably my favorite character (I hate smoking, but God dang she makes smoking look cool), followed by Ambrose, which is basically if Salem the cat become a person. They're scenes together are always really great, they all have an interesting dynamic. 

On 11/6/2018 at 6:31 AM, AngelKitty said:

I'm hoping they can integrate them better by forming a Scooby Gang. (I really miss Buffy.)

 

Well, Harvey is the descendant of witch hunters, Ros can see the future, and Susie can talk to ghosts apparently, so maybe Sabrina can start her own Scooby gang! 

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3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So, is Nick (I mean, Nick Scratch? Was Lucy Fer taken?) actually the Dark Lord? One of his offspring? Or just a bad boy for Sabrina in contrast for nice, normal Harvey, and thats just a common name for magic families to give their sons?

You do get to pick your witch name, so Nick is probably just fanboying.

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On 10/29/2018 at 7:05 PM, calliope1975 said:

While I did really enjoy the series, this was a huge disappointment and one of my biggest problems with the series. There's a lot of lip service to women but little agency given to them. Hell, I was on the original 13's side. They got screwed over, and I'd want revenge, too. Even badass Madam Satan wants to...serve at the Dark Lord's side? BE the Dark Lord yourself, Satan lady! Even first born males are given more importance. I'm really hoping this is all set up to overthrowing the patriarchy en total and not just the Dark Lord. 

 

On 10/30/2018 at 7:00 AM, BooBear said:

I agree, this show is oddly non feminist. Co signed to all of the above but why is it set in some sort of 50s universe? (other than the comic) Every woman on this show seems perfectly content to shoot for the highest honor possible... getting with a man. I suppose that Sabrina's story could be ending it all and seizing the power from the dark lord... and becoming the "lord" herself.  But everything about the show annoyed me on this point. I find this show very similar to Harry Potter but just look at the differences. EVERYTHING Sabrina does revolves back to Harvey. She doesn't want to take her dark powers because of Harvey. She uses her powers to save Harvey and on and on. Has she once thought about herself, what she wants to do?  

I agree with both thoughts above. They established the show with Sabrina recognizing her high school is sexist and starting a club called WICCA to protect women. After the club was established, the storyline completed dropped, and there was no mention of supporting women afterward even as the Church of the Night's storyline was becoming increasingly sexist. It was pretty apparent to me in the Feast of Feasts episode that this is the direction Faustus's storyline was headed because of his constant obsession with having a male heir. Even during Lilith's and Faustus's interactions, they seemed more like equals. Shouldn't Lilith be above him in the hierarchy since she's a demon and not just A demon but the Mother of demons?

I feel the overall writing of the show suffers from ADD. It can only focus on one plot point at a time and does not tie up loose ends of one plot if another major plot has already started (i.e. Connor's murder mystery).

While I did love the look of the show and I thought the actors did a phenomenal job, I just don't think I'll be able to overcome the blatant sexism even though there may be a showdown next season. I may give it a shot at a later date if I hear through the grapevine that some of the missing plot points are explained and resolved.

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I think that most of the sexism on the show is intentional acts by characters, rather than the show's sexist attitudes.  In the last scene, they show Ambrose being skeeved out by all the patriarchal bullshit that the High Priest is spouting to make sure that we know it's a problem. Similarly, his treatment of Lilith is shown to be idiotic and her plans shown to succeed while all his fail. 

For me, some of the early episodes and some of the later episodes were pretty good but the middle ones dragged a little.  Also, they need to do way fewer close-ups of bad prosthetic monster faces.

I know that the show will go to a showdown with the dark lord but I would prefer it if they really treated it as choices between two worlds, rather than good vs evil.   There's no reason why they can't focus on the devil as being for pleasure, free will, pride, and unconstrained ego more than causing others pain.  They're never going to show god anyway so I'd enjoy a show that toyed with expressly accepting that witches praying to Satan can be the good guys, rather than our religions. 

Edited by rab01

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The very next episode, within thirty seconds of Hilda saying "I can't hold this much longer", she abandoned her!!  Like, WTH??

I understood it as she abandoned Hilda because Hilda said she couldn't hold much longer. The protection spell wasn't going to work with just the two of them, so Sabrina gambled that Hilda could hold out long enough for Wardwell's plan to work.

 There's no reason why they can't focus on the devil as being for pleasure, free will, pride, and unconstrained ego more than causing others pain.

Yes, I was excited initially when Father Blackwood claimed that would be the case when Sabrina first questioned her dark Baptism. But that turned out to be a pack of lies. 

I find the base level worldbuilding of the show to be a problem. The witches are shown to be very, very evil. But yet, I'm also supposed to think they're wronged when the non-witches attack them. I agree that the misogyny/sexism throughline wasn't well developed. The show is aware of the sexism in the institutions and some of the characters, but there's so rarely real pushback.

Roz and Susie don't work for me as friends. The actors are fine, but I don't understand why these particular characters are close friends. They don't seem to have much in common, and Roz's and Susie's supernatural abilities seem to exist just to try and justify having the characters on the show. Roz's at least makes some sense despite being cliche, but the show didn't even bother trying to explain Susie's. Dorothea seems kind of evil to me with the way the ghost scenes are shot, but I don't know if the show is going in that direction (and I don't want them portraying the genderbending feminist ghost guiding the genderqueer character as evil). Roz and Susie mostly seem to be on the show because Sabrina needed friends at Baxter High in the first two episodes, and then the show was stuck with them. Sabrina and the Weird Sisters are more interesting, and Sabrina/Prudence seem like a better potential BFF pairing than Sabrina/Roz or Sabrina/Susie.

I don't find Harvey the most interesting character, but IMHO, he fits the story well. He has a clear role in Sabrina's mortal life, but also through the mines/Witch Hunting family, a clear connection to her witch life. 

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8 minutes ago, Zuleikha said:

Roz and Susie don't work for me as friends. The actors are fine, but I don't understand why these particular characters are close friends. They don't seem to have much in common, and Roz's and Susie's supernatural abilities seem to exist just to try and justify having the characters on the show. Roz's at least makes some sense despite being cliche, but the show didn't even bother trying to explain Susie's. Dorothea seems kind of evil to me with the way the ghost scenes are shot, but I don't know if the show is going in that direction (and I don't want them portraying the genderbending feminist ghost guiding the genderqueer character as evil). Roz and Susie mostly seem to be on the show because Sabrina needed friends at Baxter High in the first two episodes, and then the show was stuck with them. Sabrina and the Weird Sisters are more interesting, and Sabrina/Prudence seem like a better potential BFF pairing than Sabrina/Roz or Sabrina/Susie.

I so agree. Roz and Susie feel like they are there, like you said, because Sabrina needed "mortal" friends. I think it's a mistake to give them both some kind of magical ability, and have Harvey be descended from witch hunters because it takes away from the whole "mortal" friends idea. 

I could totally buy Sabrina and Prudence as, if not BFFs, then definitely as reluctant allies, which I think might be where they are heading. I think the whole sexist crap is the show trying to build up to the male witches vs female witches showdown we all know is coming, at least I hope it's coming, otherwise the show is just a sexist nightmare. 

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Now that I've finished, I can say I was pleasantly surprised.

I didn't go into this expecting to make it far (hell, only just made it through the Riverdale pilot) but it was quite enjoyable.

Perhaps signing the book was necessary because it'll make her grow as a witch. She's been going about the magic/witchy stuff half assed because I don't think anyone ever told her everything she needed to know. I don't know about the goth look but I really preferred the post-book signing version. 

So, when Sabrina's mom said they took her baby, perhaps she wasn't talking about Sabrina. I foresee secret sibling stuff coming in season 2.

I don't mind Roz or Susie or Harvey with helpful skills. It wouldn't be half as interesting if they went about not knowing for five seasons. Then I'd prefer they'd be useful rather then plot points. I think it will be interesting to see what happens with a relationship that is supposed be adversarial by nature but isn't. 

"I don't fly without you, Sabrina" makes my heart melt every time.

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I don't mind Harvey but I think Nick is much more attractive.

I can smell a virgin like a rabid wolf smells blood- ha! I'm Team Wardwell all the way. 

Agree Sabrina is a) irritating and b) more interesting when she's evil. 

The baby stuff is just a drag, not into it. Also not into the over the top 70s style women=good men=bad feminism.

Edited by cleo
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