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The Conners Past and Present

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The video store scene in Season 9 with D.J. and Heather - apparently written by Roseanne's kids - made me want to kill myself, especially as an actual burgeoning film buff. "Do you know Quentin Tarantino?"

I think D.J. foregoing his dreams to enlist and serve like so many did after 9/11, and ending up scarred and disenfranchised, is very realistic. I empathize with his PTSD, etc. subplot and I hope for a lot more of it. Michael has gotten a lot better, but I still don't think they can hang a ton of story on him.

Edited by jsbt
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Becky and Roseanne the first few seasons had a very superficial mother daughter relationship that fell apart the second Becky started dating and it never really recovered. Becky liked stereotypical girl things like shopping which was easy for Roseanne to understand while Darlene liked Sports which Roseanne didn’t.  But as the kids grew up and her relationship to Becky erodes it actually grew stronger with Darlene.  It wasn’t a recon at all but based on Something else.  Maybe drawing which Roseanne understood.  Maybe David who Roseanne liked.   Or maybe Darlene grew up in the opposite direction that Becky did.

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Roseanne & Darlene's relationship doesn't really grow stronger as Darlene grows older.

That's one of the main reasons Roseanne eventually becomes so close to David.

As an adult Darlene is every bit as secretive, resentful and contemptuous of Roseanne as Becky; she just happened to remain in Lanford.

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This is a seemingly random post but it is something I have been thinking about all season and I just saw something else that reminded me of it so here goes ;).

I have noticed the overall “sound” of the show is different than the original series, and I can think of 2 reasons why.   The first is nobody is really too loud.   In the original, we had Roseanne (the loudest of them all), Dan, Jackie-   All these really big voices.   Now they are older (and one absent), and their voices tend to break as they rise up instead of staying strong.   NOT that this is an issue, it’s just something I noticed.   In fact, I think the only two who could be bold and loud right now are Becky and Gina.   When Darlene “yells”, it’s more emphatic than booming.   Even young Harris has a very cool, yet scratchy voice that gives out.   Again not saying ANY of this is an issue, just something that I noticed that has changed.   

The other thing I noticed is the speaking cadence has changed.   And this is what I was reading about that prompted this random post.  Every decade or two Americans change the way they speak.   If you go back and listen to recordings from the past, there is definitely a certain sound and tone and style.   The 80s/90s way of speaking in the original series isn’t the same way they are speaking today.   Most notably?? is this type right here??  And a softer version of that.  This type of half question/have statement way of speaking I think first became common online and has made its way into dialect.  I have noticed a LOT of the characters (well actors, but you know what I mean) speak like this, from Harris to Mark to Becky to Dan, and it’s not a way of speaking that was as common in the original series.   

I dont know if this made any sense but it’s just something I have been thinking about so decided to finally share even though it’s useless haha.  

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I do think you're right that the sound is different. I'll just throw a third variable into the mix and that's the transition from analog to digital that's taken place since the original series aired.  While I don't think about it too much re: tv, I hear this every day when I listen to music online.  Analog is so much warmer in tone. 

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I was watching Roseanne today (don't hate me) and the episode had that scene where the guy running for local office comes to her door and she nails him on providing tax incentives to business by lowering business taxes and raising them on the workers. It was like she was a different person, a different actor. She's really changed. 

Edited by peacheslatour
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On 1/9/2019 at 10:11 PM, BeachDays said:

Honestly I think the reason they aren’t doing better is because they want this to be a show about the lower class and struggling.   So the stories are written to keep them there.  

It bugs me a lot. 

Here are the facts:  if Lanford is based on Elgin, Il, it has a population of 100k and is less than 50 miles from the Chicago metro. It may not have high paying jobs, but they all do have jobs and a house.  The girls can live at home, pay Dan rent, and save the difference in paying full rent and utilities.  They can go for programs for jobs that are in demand and can’t be outsourced-Nursing for one.  Hell, my cousin lives in a 500 person town, didn’t bother to go for LPN or RN, yet makes 15+per hour as an aide.  Yes, her commute is long, but that’s standard for rural people. She’s not poor.  

Its not like they’re living in rural Appalachia.  

And Dan working construction at 65+ is just asinine.  He has social security, and should be able to get a part time job to make ends meet.  Let him tend bar at the Lobo, damnit.  Between that, and renting out to his kids, he would be fine.  Lots of people do it.  Or he could take his construction skills and turn the upstairs into an income unit.  

The connors were never poor, just stupid and short sighted.  They have a house with laundry facilities, two bathrooms, their kids were always groomed and dressed as good as their peers.  They’re in a rut, and it’s getting irritating watching them never come out of it.

and there is no reason Darlene’s ass can’t drive/carpool or catch a bus to a better job in Chicago.  And do they not know people now work at home?  

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I get your point but also bc they want to keep the “struggling” aspect, I have to just chalk it up to “whatever they want for the show” and sorta not let my brain think too deeply about it haha.   I do think they seem more comfortable and middle class until there is a point they want to ram home, and then that feels like it’s out of the blue.   

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They have a house with laundry facilities, two bathrooms, their kids were always groomed and dressed as good as their peers.

It always killed me that they referred to their house as a dump or a hovel. Shit, they've got a three bedroom house, a huge kitchen, two full baths, a finished basement, a detached garage and a sun porch. As a designer all I could think about is what they could have done with all that space. And Dan a contractor!

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29 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

It always killed me that they referred to their house as a dump or a hovel. Shit, they've got a three bedroom house, a huge kitchen, two full baths, a finished basement, a detached garage and a sun porch. As a designer all I could think about is what they could have done with all that space. And Dan a contractor!

Yeah, it’s a bunch of BS.  I lived in a fucking shack with one of those red pumps for water, no electric, no indoor plumbing. 

They have no idea what poverty is.  I can tell you it ain’t this.  People are so naive.

and, isn’t that house a Craftsman?  It’s beautiful!  Just decorated poorly. 

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isn’t that house a Craftsman?  It’s beautiful!  Just decorated poorly. 

Yes! Oh, what I could do with that house. And not the insipid pastel nightmare that Kathy Bowman came up with either.

Edited by peacheslatour
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28 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

and, isn’t that house a Craftsman?  It’s beautiful!  Just decorated poorly. 

That house would go for a million easy anywhere within 50 miles from NYC. 

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9 minutes ago, Superclam said:

That house would go for a million easy anywhere within 50 miles from NYC. 

Same with Seattle, San Francisco or Atlanta. Hell, near Seattle it would go for two.

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650k in Ft Lauderdale.  Man, we’re ‘po here comparatively speaking.

would be great to see Dan meet someone not down and out and have her redecorate. 

This whole setup frankly sucks.  You can have a gritty family comedy with out having everyone broke and miserable all the time.

finally, anytime my mother got anything resembling a windfall, she kept at least half for investment.  She’s not poor anymore.  That’s one thing that keeps people in poverty, poor money management.  The good times people were prosperous next to her in her life before her forties. 

but the connors were never poor.  Just stupid about money. 

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2 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Here are the facts:  if Lanford is based on Elgin, Il, it has a population of 100k and is less than 50 miles from the Chicago metro. It may not have high paying jobs, but they all do have jobs and a house.  

Not that it makes a big difference, but in the first season of Rosanne they said they lived in/near Aurora. Also, we don't know how many mortgages Dan has on that house. He has lived there long enough to be free and clear on the original mortgage, but who knows how many times he has decided to borrow against his equity.

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My other huge fandom is Star Wars so I’m used to things just being done “for plot” and completely unrealistic haha.  

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4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

It always killed me that they referred to their house as a dump or a hovel. Shit, they've got a three bedroom house, a huge kitchen, two full baths, a finished basement, a detached garage and a sun porch. As a designer all I could think about is what they could have done with all that space. And Dan a contractor!

I think this is an issue of TV vs. reality. From a real world perspective it's a lot of space that isn't really being used and a lot of stuff that is sort of jammed together and not well designed, but it's that way because they need space for cameras, crew, blocking scenes. etc.  Not to mention that there is a degree of sarcasm/self-deprecating  humor in many of those references. I'm sympathetic to most of the criticisms on this thread, but I think the house is just one of those things that we have to accept as viewers and not think about too much, especially since they are pretty much locked into it by decisions that were made for reasons of practicality before the original series started.

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1 minute ago, wknt3 said:

Not to mention that there is a degree of sarcasm/self-deprecating  humor in many of those references. 

Exactly. Making jokes is what these people do, after all :p.

I agree, though, that given some of the places I've lived throughout my life, I would've been perfectly happy to find and live in a home like the Connors'. I knew people who had houses like theirs as well. 

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I never thought the Conners were stupid. I certainly thought they were often poor. The show has always been involved with their economic ups and downs, and there were usually more downs. I don't see any difference today.

Edited by jsbt
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I love how we're all Dan's financial planners now. And I don't mean that in a snarky way :)

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And how would the show be if they got smart about money and did the things suggested above.  Would they have any storylines?  

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2 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

And how would the show be if they got smart about money and did the things suggested above.  Would they have any storylines?  

They didn’t seem so bad off in the original show, and they had plenty of storylines. They also kept having storylines after opening up the Lunchbox.

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5 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I think this is an issue of TV vs. reality.

Yeah, I think unless the people are supposed to be filthy rich, pretty much no one on TV can afford the home they're living in.  I don't think the niceness of the Connors' home has any actual relationship to how poor they are supposed to be.  (Although, yeah, they could definitely rent out the basement for a few hundred a month.)

Edited by janie jones
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1 hour ago, Meushell said:

They didn’t seem so bad off in the original show, and they had plenty of storylines. They also kept having storylines after opening up the Lunchbox.

they had their power turned off, often talked about paying 1 bill while putting off another one, all the jokes about sending the check for the electric bill to the water company.  Had at least 2 mortgages on the house at one point, at least 1 failed business, Roseanne was often bouncing from job to job.  Had to choose between buying Dan new shoes or Becky a dress for a dance.  They couldn't afford a VCR & were gifted one.  "The Conner's leap into the 21st century!" ~Darlene  Roseanne had the hidden credit card that Dan didn't know about "What fool credit card company gave us a credit card?"~Dan  She talked about how the alarm never went off because she didn't pay the bill. (same episode as the unknown credit card). 

 

They had plenty of storylines that revolved around not having enough money for luxuries/wants and other times, not enough money for their bills. 

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1 hour ago, Steff said:

they had their power turned off, often talked about paying 1 bill while putting off another one, all the jokes about sending the check for the electric bill to the water company.  Had at least 2 mortgages on the house at one point, at least 1 failed business, Roseanne was often bouncing from job to job.  Had to choose between buying Dan new shoes or Becky a dress for a dance.  They couldn't afford a VCR & were gifted one.  "The Conner's leap into the 21st century!" ~Darlene  Roseanne had the hidden credit card that Dan didn't know about "What fool credit card company gave us a credit card?"~Dan  She talked about how the alarm never went off because she didn't pay the bill. (same episode as the unknown credit card). 

 

They had plenty of storylines that revolved around not having enough money for luxuries/wants and other times, not enough money for their bills. 

Yes, but they seem worse off now. Admittedly, that was more last year stories than this year. 

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2 hours ago, Meushell said:

Yes, but they seem worse off now. Admittedly, that was more last year stories than this year. 

Their problems just changed.  Now they couldn't afford to fill their prescriptions, couldn't afford Roseanne's knee surgery, didn't know how they were going to pay to fix the basement when it flooded.  The problems became more expensive problems than just how to pay the light bill. 

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7 hours ago, Steff said:

Their problems just changed.  Now they couldn't afford to fill their prescriptions, couldn't afford Roseanne's knee surgery, didn't know how they were going to pay to fix the basement when it flooded.  The problems became more expensive problems than just how to pay the light bill. 

Do we really need to see Dan and it seems, all three kids, struggling for storylines? D.J. is sort of the exception, maybe. He still couldn’t even help pay for his parents anniversary dinner. Similar plots were used in the past, yes, but it didn’t feel like they relied on them as much as they do now. There are many other potential stories to tell.

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4 hours ago, Meushell said:

Do we really need to see Dan and it seems, all three kids, struggling for storylines? D.J. is sort of the exception, maybe. He still couldn’t even help pay for his parents anniversary dinner. Similar plots were used in the past, yes, but it didn’t feel like they relied on them as much as they do now. There are many other potential stories to tell.

IMO we are still seeing other stories being told, but generational poverty is real & many families struggle from generation to generation to break the cycle of poverty.  Often they aren't able to.  Darlene was the closest to breaking the cycle, but then circumstances set her back to where she's struggling again.   It also plays into the way the economy/job opportunities never really allow for some families to escape the paycheck to paycheck lives.  I see it as staying true to the original recipe Roseanne, they are a family that struggles to stay afloat.  Sometimes the pressure isn't as bad, other times it's a panic.  We also have more multi-generational families living together now than we have in many many years (I'm not going to go hunting for the exact stat), so it makes sense for Darlene to move back home when she is struggling, lost her job & her husband left her. 

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According to Pew Data, 33% of 25–29 year olds lived with their parents or grandparents in 2016 — nearly three times the number than in 1970. That’s pretty shocking!

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20 hours ago, Meushell said:

They didn’t seem so bad off in the original show, and they had plenty of storylines. They also kept having storylines after opening up the Lunchbox.

Ahhh nostalgia.  Ain’t it grand.  They were horribly bad off.  After Roseanne quit the factory she was out of work for months.  She worked one crummy job after another.  She hated the fast food job she worked at.  Then they’d was the job sweeping hair,  it was only later she got steady work as a waitress working for Leon at the Diner.  

Dan hated  drywall but it was at times the only steady job either of them had.  Then he did the motorcycle thing and that went under.  Yes The Lunchbox might have been their only actual real earned  success.

 

17 hours ago, Meushell said:

Yes, but they seem worse off now. Admittedly, that was more last year stories than this year. 

I think maybe because the writing is different and sadder somehow.  Maybe because the character of Roseanne is dead.  Maybe because The way the show ended way back had some hope to it but Darlene and David self destructed after Mark died.  Maybe the idea of generational poverty isn’t funny anymore.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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41 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

 The way the show ended way back had some hope to it but Darlene and David self destructed after Mark died.  Maybe the idea of generational poverty isn’t funny anymore.

Very true there was hope, hey they made it. The whole family made it. The couples that we grew to adore overcame their hardships to be together. But the fact that one thing  like Mark's death can change people. Becky dealt with it with turning to alcohol alone she reached out to Darlene. While David left because he couldn't handle not having Mark in his life. It broken them in the ways that nobody could have seen coming.

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2 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

Very true there was hope, hey they made it. The whole family made it. The couples that we grew to adore overcame their hardships to be together. But the fact that one thing  like Mark's death can change people. Becky dealt with it with turning to alcohol alone she reached out to Darlene. While David left because he couldn't handle not having Mark in his life. It broken them in the ways that nobody could have seen coming.

IMO that is also very real.  A death has a ripple effect thru those that loved them.  Some never recover from the loss & it spirals their entire lives into a direction they never imagined or planned for.  It directly did that to Becky & David.  Darlene was part of the extending ripple effect.  Mark wasn't her brother or husband, but what it did to her husband completely changed her life & plans. 

I still find the show to be a rather honest, if bleak, portrait of life of a family living paycheck to paycheck just trying to get by.  Just like original recipe Roseanne, the only stable constants they have is family, love, and humor. 

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1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

I think maybe because the writing is different and sadder somehow.  Maybe because the character of Roseanne is dead.  Maybe because The way the show ended way back had some hope to it but Darlene and David self destructed after Mark died.  Maybe the idea of generational poverty isn’t funny anymore.

It probably is the writing. Before it seemed like part of there lives, but not the focus of their lives. I don’t think that focus is necessary for plot.

Edited by Meushell
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3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

According to Pew Data, 33% of 25–29 year olds lived with their parents or grandparents in 2016 — nearly three times the number than in 1970. That’s pretty shocking!

I'm 34 and I'm currently living with my mom.  

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On 1/13/2019 at 10:03 PM, Meushell said:

They didn’t seem so bad off in the original show, and they had plenty of storylines. They also kept having storylines after opening up the Lunchbox.

I agree that there should be stories beyond financial woes, but I also thought that the show went markedly downhill once they began moving further away from those stories, although I know there are other factors (like Roseanne Barr steadily going off the rails, and the usual struggles of a show that has been on for 5 or 6 seasons). 

I haven't felt like they have focused a whole lot on money woes this season, at least not to such a heavy degree as what we got this week. I wonder if that's why the script felt rusty - if they felt they had to address these topics but their heart wasn't in it. 

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9 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Ahhh nostalgia.  Ain’t it grand.  They were horribly bad off.  After Roseanne quit the factory she was out of work for months.  She worked one crummy job after another.  She hated the fast food job she worked at.  Then they’d was the job sweeping hair,  it was only later she got steady work as a waitress working for Leon at the Diner.  

Dan hated  drywall but it was at times the only steady job either of them had.  Then he did the motorcycle thing and that went under.  Yes The Lunchbox might have been their only actual real earned  success.

 

I think maybe because the writing is different and sadder somehow.  Maybe because the character of Roseanne is dead.  Maybe because The way the show ended way back had some hope to it but Darlene and David self destructed after Mark died.  Maybe the idea of generational poverty isn’t funny anymore.

I think part of the sadness is that things were supposed to be getting better but they have actually gotten so much worse. Especially for menial workers like the Conners. In the eighties they could actually have been middle class. Now they are nearly destitute. It would be nice if people could just work hard and get ahead but luck and timing plays a role and Conners have never had either.

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6 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

I think part of the sadness is that things were supposed to be getting better but they have actually gotten so much worse. Especially for menial workers like the Conners. In the eighties they could actually have been middle class. Now they are nearly destitute. It would be nice if people could just work hard and get ahead but luck and timing plays a role and Conners have never had either.

The security of the mid-century American working class -- in which Dan and the Harris sisters grew up and started out -- was based on labor conditions that vanished under their feet, as they reached middle age. They each fought back by trying to start a business based on what they knew. But the bike shop and the Lunch Box folded, taking the Conners' savings plus whatever they had borrowed, leaving them with new debts, a house worth very little (for the next decade or more), and no place back into the vanishing middle class.

Somehow they kept the house, even after the recession. (Bev again, along with physical labor that took out Roseanne's knee and Dan's back?) And by then, most new jobs in Lanford were probably in patient care, especially, hands-on tending of the elderly: realistically, Jackie would more likely have been working at the facility that expelled her mother. Roseanne would not have been hired and Dan would not have applied. Right when their own bodies finally demanded maintenance long deferred, and they needed to learn how to care for them. 

The twenty years between Roseanne and The Conners were, for the Conners, much harder than the twenty-five years before. 

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On 1/5/2019 at 1:44 AM, BeachDays said:

I have noticed the overall “sound” of the show is different than the original series, and I can think of 2 reasons why.   The first is nobody is really too loud.   In the original, we had Roseanne (the loudest of them all), Dan, Jackie-   All these really big voices.   Now they are older (and one absent), and their voices tend to break as they rise up instead of staying strong.   NOT that this is an issue, it’s just something I noticed.   In fact, I think the only two who could be bold and loud right now are Becky and Gina.   When Darlene “yells”, it’s more emphatic than booming.   Even young Harris has a very cool, yet scratchy voice that gives out.   Again not saying ANY of this is an issue, just something that I noticed that has changed.   

The other thing I noticed is the speaking cadence has changed.   And this is what I was reading about that prompted this random post.  Every decade or two Americans change the way they speak.   If you go back and listen to recordings from the past, there is definitely a certain sound and tone and style.   The 80s/90s way of speaking in the original series isn’t the same way they are speaking today.   Most notably?? is this type right here??  And a softer version of that.  This type of half question/have statement way of speaking I think first became common online and has made its way into dialect.  I have noticed a LOT of the characters (well actors, but you know what I mean) speak like this, from Harris to Mark to Becky to Dan, and it’s not a way of speaking that was as common in the original series.   

The original show had more cast members who didn't have a sitcom style of delivery. This time around most of them do. 

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On 1/13/2019 at 7:15 PM, lookeyloo said:

And how would the show be if they got smart about money and did the things suggested above.  Would they have any storylines?  

Of course.  People don’t become less interesting because they become wiser.  You get different storylines.

It’s unrealistic on a show that purports to show realism that the Connors never had a financial plan, even after the kids left home.  My Dominican born aunt seized every penny she could get her hands on after the kids left home and has a good retirement to look forward to.  She also went without things to ensure the life insurance was maintained.  

ETA:  Did jobs really vanish under the Connors feet?  Roseanne’s knee going out probably had more to do with obesity than the actual labor, and Dan still works in construction.  My father worked construction and knew it was a dead end for an older man.  By the time he turned 55, my mother had been working a modest but secure job with a retirement plan for the past 15 years.   He stopped construction and took up a job cooking and tending bar until he turned 65. 

My co workers spouse just retired from nursing at 72.  Roseanne could have trained for a similar career in her 40s, but never did.

it just rings false to me that this family, who was intelligent and tough enough to survive stumbled.  Every one of them. 

Edited by Mu Shu
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30 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

it just rings false to me that this family, who was intelligent and tough enough to survive stumbled.  Every one of them. 

Sadly, I can believe it. There are people out there who didn't catch any breaks, for sure, but there are also people who just don't plan for tomorrow and who live paycheque to paycheque until there is no paycheque.  Not all these people are unintelligent.  For a lot it comes down to "one damn thing after another" and they end up homeless or otherwise struggling as they enter old age.  I would love it if The Conners - or at least most of the Conners, finally caught a break but I don't know if that's the way they'll ever go on this show.

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On 1/14/2019 at 6:38 PM, Annber03 said:

I'm 34 and I'm currently living with my mom.  

Why not?  If it helps the two of you, I say go for it.  There’s nothing wrong with family helping each other out by living together. 

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Oh, yeah, I'm with you-I've got no complaints about my current situation. My mom and I have a good relationship, which definitely helps, and, like you said, it's beneficial for both of us at this time :). Just one of clearly many families going through this kind of living situation as of late, it seems. On the plus side, I think the fact that this is so common nowadays makes people a little less judgmental about that kind of setup, because as we've seen, there's all sorts of valid reasons why people do that. 

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I'm fairly intelligernt but yep zero money sense. We do exist out here, and are often addicts/alkies. The one sides feeds the other, so I totally get Becky's take on things. Hence the show rings true for me.

eta: other weirdness - all my fave bands had members who killed themselves. artists i think are tortured internally despite their gifts. the conners perhaps subconsciously ruin themselves? 

Edited by Colorado David
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Interesting convo here. 

I've lived in a small, poor town not quite like Lanford but similar enough that I can relate. If you've never encountered people who can't seem to reverse their situation, it's easy to think of a person who has overcome their situation and wonder why the Conner family can't be more like that. They're just not those people. Plus, they're not actually real 😁

But there are times I yell at the TV, too. I want that beautiful house. I don't understand why Becky wasn't living at the house before Darlene moved in. Wasn't it just Roseanne and Dan living there? I wonder why Dan doesn't drive Uber or how Roseanne afforded a car new enough for Uber. And I especially wonder if Darlene has ever heard of the internet. It's ridiculous that someone in her field is only searching for local jobs in Lanford. It would make more sense to see her struggling to get her articles published or getting a copywriting business off the ground. 

But it's tv so mostly I just laugh and enjoy having the Conner family back. 

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4 minutes ago, love2lovebadtv said:

But it's tv so mostly I just laugh and enjoy having the Conner family back. 

There are a few shows, sitcoms mainly, where my husband threatens to leave the room if I can't suspend belief and just "enjoy the damn show" without nitpicking!  I have to remind myself that it's just TV countless times.  On The Conners though I'm mostly not doing that.  I can understand why they are where they are and although some stuff does rankle I can mostly let it go.  Now Two and Half Men on the other hand - oh god.

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11 minutes ago, love2lovebadtv said:

I don't understand why Becky wasn't living at the house before Darlene moved in.

Because she had an apartment.  Most American adults don't want to live with their parents if they can afford to live on their own.  (Especially if they have a series of casual sexual relationships; I think it would be pretty awkward to bring a one-nighter home when Mom and Dad are hanging out on the couch.)

Edited by Bastet
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2 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

There are a few shows, sitcoms mainly, where my husband threatens to leave the room if I can't suspend belief and just "enjoy the damn show" without nitpicking!  I have to remind myself that it's just TV countless times.  On The Conners though I'm mostly not doing that.  I can understand why they are where they are and although some stuff does rankle I can mostly let it go.  Now Two and Half Men on the other hand - oh god.

lol 2 1/2 men, BBT, 2 broke girls....can't handle that level of lameness. jmo. mind you I loved the Shield, and way certain no cop team could operate that corrupt way in reality.

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