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S27.E06: Week 4: Trios Night

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1 hour ago, Toonces464 said:

There is a huge difference between the core audience of the show and the ones who tune in for a particular season because they like a particular contestant. The core audience has ALWAYS driven the winner and, as someone pointed out above, this demographic seems to like a certain type of contestant. It has nothing to do with skin color or gender or even dance talent. It's personality and the journey. And, who the pro is.

I don't think you can say it has nothing to do with skin color or gender. For some of the core audience that is true but you can't say that's the case across the board. For some, it matters, whether that's something they choose to acknowledge or not. And the show itself engages in the stereotypes that hurt black women both on this show and in the world. Arrogant and cocky are just nice ways of saying "uppity" so when the show goes out of its way to paint black women are arrogant season after season (with Tamar being the most egregious example) they're teaching their audience to see black women that way. Now, it's not going to work on every audience member but it certain will work on a portion and to say it won't is just wrong.

The show engages in stories where black women don't connect with their partner and are cold but also films their dances in poor lighting or from above. How is an audience supposed to feel connect to the dancer or to the couple if we can't see their faces?

The show values the idea of a journey but when you're talking about people who may be competitive (so not old people) almost exclusively casts black women who would be considered ringers. I can think of only a few black women who have been cast who wouldn't be considered a ringer (Laila Ali, Nene Leaks, Lolo Jones, Arike Ogunbowale and Amber Rose and even she had a few people calling her a ringer because of a background in exotic dance) compared to a majority of black women who have been either singers with some dance experience or actors who dance as a part of their job. Why is it the show can cast from wide net for white women but has one lane for nearly every black woman? Where are the instagram models? The CW stars? The makeup artists? The meteorologists? The Bachelor contestants? (Actually I know that show has issues with race as well which does leave a very small pool for DWTS to pull from.) Why cast black women who the producers must know will immediately be called ringers unless that's what you want?

The show sets these women up by creating storylines where they won't succeed and then the judges stand there dumbfounded every time those failure storylines work.

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10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Maybe he's better when cameras aren't on him? How he got onto reality TV is beyond me, but people seem to like him. I don't personally get it, but Joe seems like a decent guy who isn't made to be on TV. I guess people liked Joe for being a normal guy when he was on The Bachelorette? I think? I can see it, since it doesn't translate onscreen. 

Meanwhile, Bobby's whining and pouting about his low scores on social media and I'm rather turned off by Bobby's "woe is me, I'm getting SHAFTED" trials and tribulations story. I actually didn't like his dance tonight at all. Yeah, it was good as a Hammertime dance, but not as a cha-cha. 

Joe didn’t make it past night one on TB.  

People like him because he’s good looking. It seems they assume he’s a good guy because he doesn’t talk hardly at all.

id rather have cringy booby than schmoe.  At least he tries.  Joe is one of those people who coast on their looks.  Resting on pretty.  I’m not having it no more. 

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Joe clearly should go, but I would find the show boring and pointless if the best natural dancers always made it through and the worst dancers went home. I always thought the point of this show was to see unnatural dancers improve and grow , but it seems to be more that people think borderline professional dancers who are amazing from day 1 should always win or get further. If anything, this show is more ageist than racist.. as the older people have no shot of winning. They may be good, but their flexibility/ ability to do flips and spins will never compare to a younger person. Having 75 year olds compete against 17 year olds makes no sense.

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6 hours ago, MsTree said:

Race has nothing to do with being eliminated, esp. on SYTYCD. Just ask Fikshun & Twitch!

The same could be said for Cloris Leachman who was barely coherent, and Master P who even refused to wear dancing shoes.

But both were actually famous at one point, and good at what they did.  

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10 hours ago, PhD-Purgatory15 said:

Milo & Witney, this was a whirling dervish of a routine. Probably about as good as Witney can choreograph to be honest. And having Riker certainly didn't hurt....they meshed seemlessly.

Bobby Sharna, Yay for Lindsey Stirling!!!!! Honestly, I'm going to give Bobby a tiny bit of a pass because this would've been my 12 year old dance fantasy come to life. I loved Hammertime so much as a kid. But yes, there was all of about 12 seconds of cha cha content, and it wasn't great. I'm still not totally convinced that the semis or even the finals won't include Bobby and Joe (gulp) both :-(

Jenna & Grocery Joe: I'm choosing to believe Jenna purposely choreographed this abomination to try and sacrifice Joe into the dancing ether. And in all it's train-wreck glory....it still wasn't enough to get him booted. Sigh.

Won't it take until next week to boot him for whatever the hell that was last night? I don't know how the show works anymore, but I thought this week's boots were based on votes from last week's show? 

What really hurt the entertainment value of that trainwreck was the fact that Jordan's shirt malfunction really took him out of the role/character he was supposed to play and he seemed genuinely pissed off by the end. If it was a fun, hammy performance (which Joe himself can't really do, it's not his personality), it could have at least salvaged the entertainment portion, since the actual dancing was always going to be a lost cause. 

It also seems like Erin Andrews really hates Joe's monosyllabic ways and can't wait to not have to interview him anymore and Jenna's reaction to them staying didn't exactly seem to be leaping for joy. It's got to be awkward at some point to still be hanging around when everyone clearly thinks it should have been you every single vote. 

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But this experiment of putting a black celebrity with a newby black pro was cruel because the show knows exactly what its doing, and it's just feeding the beast.  

Another issue with this pairing is that Tinashe isn't a well-known entity on her own, so putting her with a brand new pro with no following of his own was always going to hurt them. When they introduce pros, they should pair them with a celebrity with more name recognition since dance ability doesn't seem to factor in as much. Like Witney's first season, she got Alfonso, an amazing dancer, but more importantly, he had a hook in being "Carlton" for all those years, so people didn't know her, but they did know him and it elevated their voting profile.

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Evanna & Keo, This is why I hate Keo so much and think he should've been dropped from the pro lineup multiple times. This dance was all about him. Evanna and Scarlett were basically accessories. If someone who had never watched DWTS, never seen this season, had magically turned it on right as they started dancing....could they have figured out that Evanna was the star? She was a glorified extra in her own trio.

I don't hate Keo, but I agree that he tends to outdance his partners. I also noticed in last week's "most memorable year" show that he seems to be rather standoffish with his partners. All of the other pairings had conversations that seemed to be an exchange of emotions, but Evanna's package seemed to be her just talking into the void with little/no response from Keo. 

As far as this dance, as I watched it, I thought that they should do the trios differently based on gender of the celeb so they can be in the center. If it had been Evanna and 2 guys, she might have stood out more, but having Keo in the center of the 2 women, he just naturally drew the eye. (Then again, Milo/Ryker/Witney had the same format and I still managed to watch Milo and especially Riker, so maybe it's just about choreography and staging). 

Most importantly to me, I FINALLY figured out who it is that Milo reminds me..Colin from Real World Hawaii. That's been bugging me for weeks! 

 

 

 

colin.jpg

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I enjoyed seeing Melissa last night.  She and Tony remain one of my top 5 all time DWTS pairings.  (No drama, no showmance, just seemed to really enjoy each other and had fun—I miss Tony).    I also didn’t think John’s dance was as bad as the judges seemed to.      I like Milo and JP and would be fine with either to win it all.

 

And I really don’t feel that race or gender has to do with who gets voted off.   This dancing is subjective – some like one person for some reason, some like a certain pro.   Fan bases factor into the whole thing – and some might have a good fan base but it is not a base that is going to take the time to vote on a dance competition show.

 

And there are discussions every season that the “best” dancer is voted off mid-show.   The “best” dancer doesn’t always (or usually win) and we all have different opinions on who the “best” dancer is.  

 

I don’t see DWTS as anything more than a fun, fluffy reality show and I don’t find it a fair comparison for real life where racism and hatred exist. 

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Its time for dwts to be cancelled. The ratings are tanking and its not a fun show anymore. It has turned into a populartity contest instead a danceshow.  TInashe getting voted off was disgusting, it was so disgusting. That wasnt right, that wasnt right at all. Even if u werent a fan of her or not rooting for her, u got to admit that was just wrong on so many levels. 

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14 minutes ago, vdw84 said:

Its time for dwts to be cancelled. The ratings are tanking and its not a fun show anymore. It has turned into a populartity contest instead a danceshow.  TInashe getting voted off was disgusting, it was so disgusting. That wasnt right, that wasnt right at all. Even if u werent a fan of her or not rooting for her, u got to admit that was just wrong on so many levels. 

DWTS has always been a popularity contest. I don't think they're going to cancel it because Tinashe got eliminated. There are other fun shows on the air however!

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I'm not going to pretend race doesn't play a role in this show, or sexism either.  I'm not going to pretend it doesn't bother me that we have lost four female celebs in four weeks and the ONLY male celeb that has ever been in jeopardy is John.  Now of course I know they don't tell us the real bottom two, but still.  I am not arguing against what many have said about black women and how they fare on this show, but also beyond that women celebs tend to be held to a much higher standard than the men.  On every level.  Everything they do is scrutinized, from their past experience to the way they dress.  Now I know the obvious flip side to that is the female pros are much stronger but c'mon...this season is a glaring hole of obviousness in this degree.

I also realize I probably can't speak since I haven't cast a vote.  Well, that's a lie.  I might have cast a few votes for Nancy in week 2.

I understand Bachelor nations crazy support of Joe.  The part I don't understand at this point is they are actively keeping him on a show where he has no desire to be to watch him get ripped apart (even if they are being nice to him) by the judges and general public.  He doesn't want to be there.  He sucks at it.  Jenna clearly doesn't want to be there.  But believe me, after last night I still saw his fans going hard and insisting that both he and Jenna want to be there.  Did they not see Jenna at the judges table?  You are only promoting your faves embarrassment at this point.  That was the worst routine I have seen on this show in a LONG time.

I think the judges praise of Jenna was mostly acknowledgment that she got the short end of the stick, not just in terms of Joe by being handed a second guy who can barely move.  The only way they could have possibly gotten anything decent out of that was if Jenna had gotten a second female pro in the number to dance around him and where they could literally both walk him through the routine.  That said, I agree with the sentiment that I'm not sure Joe wouldn't be faring SLIGHTLY better with an Emma or someone that knows there way around people that can't dance. 

Also JMO, but I think there is a big difference between fun underdog who isn't the best dancer and guy who can barely walk in a straight line without stumbling.  Not saying I supported them, but David Ross is an example of the former to me.  Not great but working hard and numbers are mostly entertaining/passable and resembling dance.  I'd even put Bobby in that category.  Joe is in the can barely walk in a straight line category. 

I also thought the whole night was weird.  Trios should be later in the season when the dead weight is gone.  They also IMO should be either all pros or returning celebs, not a mix of random people.  I prefer pros.  Otherwise you get the weird unfairness of last night.  I actually will argue Evanna had the greatest disadvantage.  Because while Jenna's trio was obviously worse, Jordan is at least recognizable to Joe's base.  Evanna got her her friend who was in HP, but not in a big enough role that anyone cares about, nor does said friend have a fanbase.  On top of not being that great a dancer...though she tried.  I wouldn't even be surprised to see Evanna go next week.

The only trios I really enjoyed were Milo's and shockingly, Mary Lou's.  Oh, Tinashe's was good too and I think Brandon was clever with the choreo in terms of his celebs didn't match up, plus Amy's limitations.  Alexis's was fine.

Edited by spanana
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9 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

DWTS has always been a popularity contest. I don't think they're going to cancel it because Tinashe got eliminated. There are other fun shows on the air however!

I didnt mean they were going to cancel because of her, Im just saying they will pro. get cancelled because people are getting fed up, people have been getting fed up for alot now with this show. 

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The middle aged white women who make up the largest voting bloc will always choose the mediocre white male over the beautiful talented Black chick.  They have done it time and time again.

Edited by gohawks
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12 minutes ago, Toonces464 said:

DWTS has always been a popularity contest. I don't think they're going to cancel it because Tinashe got eliminated. There are other fun shows on the air however!

 Tinashe is a talented person who has worked with popular artists.  She got her name out, probably all she really wanted.

i don’t want to cancel the show, but damn Joe needs to stub a toe and Say he’s injured and bow out. There should be some bar however low set for people who simply suck this badly. 

Yes, it’s a popularity contest.  I’d say Juan Pablo is probably more popular than schmoe because he’s good looking, sexy, dances well, and is a competent actor .  

It seems a lot of people voting like under dogs and don’t like ringers.  Tinashe danced with Britney.  She is a ringer.  Joe is an untalented schlub.  Under dog. 

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8 minutes ago, gohawks said:

The middle aged white women who make up the largest voting bloc will always choose who the mediocre white male over the beautiful talented Black chick.  They have done it time and time again.

People keep saying because she was ringer and partnered with a new pro but as someone who has watched from the beginning, it runs so much deeper than that. I want get into it on this board, oh no but its so much more that people either choose not to want believe, hell I dont want believe it but u cant ignore what is so in ur face, its so in ur face. 

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43 minutes ago, vdw84 said:

Its time for dwts to be cancelled. The ratings are tanking and its not a fun show anymore. It has turned into a populartity contest instead a danceshow.  TInashe getting voted off was disgusting, it was so disgusting. That wasnt right, that wasnt right at all. Even if u werent a fan of her or not rooting for her, u got to admit that was just wrong on so many levels. 

Turned into? Its been a popularity contest for years. Shocking boots have happened every single season. Tinashe is no different than Simone, or Heather, or Sabrina, etc.

Some people still find it to be a fun show. Its enjoyable for me because I dont take things too seriously. Im use to bad dancers leaving early while crap dancers stay. Even the couples I do like I'm not invested in to the point I'm going to carry on and be upset because they missed out on winning a tacky trophy. If its no longer fun for you or anyone, you don't have to watch.

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5 minutes ago, howmanywords said:

Turned into? Its been a popularity contest for years. Shocking boots have happened every single season. Tinashe is no different than Simone, or Heather, or Sabrina, etc.

Some people still find it to be a fun show. Its enjoyable for me because I dont take things too seriously. Im use to bad dancers leaving early while crap dancers stay. Even the couples I do like I'm not invested in to the point I'm going to carry on and be upset because they missed out on winning a tacky trophy. If its no longer fun for you or anyone, you don't have to watch.

I know I don't  have to watch if its no longer fun for me and guess what I don't have to stop voicing my opinion either about the bias of the show, so its all good.

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2 hours ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I always thought the point of this show was to see unnatural dancers improve and grow , but it seems to be more that people think borderline professional dancers who are amazing from day 1 should always win or get further

That's what I thought, too, that the show was originally supposed to show how unnatural dancers improved over time.

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11 minutes ago, howmanywords said:

Turned into? Its been a popularity contest for years. Shocking boots have happened every single season. Tinashe is no different than Simone, or Heather, or Sabrina, etc.

Some people still find it to be a fun show. Its enjoyable for me because I dont take things too seriously. Im use to bad dancers leaving early while crap dancers stay. Even the couples I do like I'm not invested in to the point I'm going to carry on and be upset because they missed out on winning a tacky trophy. If its no longer fun for you or anyone, you don't have to watch.

While I agree and I'm not overly invested either, there is to me a difference between not being invested and actively finding myself annoyed every second I watch the show these days.  Which that is for a multitude of reasons, but last night didn't help.

I also still argue there is a big difference between a David Ross type who is somewhat of an undedog, not in terms of popularity, but dance skill and etc.  A guy who comes off like an every man.  Versus whatever it is Joe is.  I get Joe comes off like the every guy and we all know the show loves an Alek Skarlatos story.  But I also think Lindsay managed to get a lot more out of Alek, even if he wasn't great, then what we have been seeing out of Joe.  Again, I don't know if that is on Jenna or if Joe is just that beyond hopeless.  So there is an underdog and man literally unable to even remotely do one dance move.  Joe manages to screw up standing in one spot and waving his arms.

Also not to what you posted, but since I also saw it in this thread.  I've seen some criticism angled at Witney supposedly stealing Lindsay's choreo from her Jordan trio last season.  To which I call bull.  I'm not sure if the backlash I've seen is coming from Lindsay fans or Jordan fans or just people that hate Witney, but it's a salsa trio.  There are only so many salsa steps in existence.  In order to choreograph a trio salsa, Witney was going to have to use some of the same dance steps.  I have no idea if Wit choreographed her routine on her own or if she had help, but either way it wasn't a ripoff of Lindsay's number.

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That's what I thought, too, that the show was originally supposed to show how unnatural dancers improved over time.

I think it's about both.  Believe me that I've never been in the best dancer always has to win box.  I think the winner just needs to have a mix of decent ability, decent performance and a likeable personality.  That doesn't always need to be the best technical dancer.  However this show has had ringers since the very beginning, so it's hard to pretend that the show was always about unnatural dancers improving over time.  Yeah, for sure that was part of it but there was ringer backlash starting in season 1.  If you want to see the ultimate showdown in that arena, just check out S3 and Emmitt vs. Mario Lopez.

Edited by spanana
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11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Haaaaaaa :D. Perfect. 

I saw somebody in the comment section over at TV Line mention that they voted for Joe as a means of protesting the people who come in with dance experience, so there's yet another reason to throw into the "Why is Joe still here?" pile. I've personally never cared whether the contestants had dance experience or not, but even if I did, I would think there's better ways to make that point. But I do know that's been a debate among some out there, so...*Shrugs*

OK, I get protesting ringers, but then why vote for Joe of all people??? In that case channel the votes toward those who have no dance experience but who have decent skills (e.g., Demarcus).

2 hours ago, TeeMo said:

While watching Jenna splitting around the floor with a pained look of exasperation on her face last night, all I kept thinking of was how she reacted like George Clooney had walked into the room when Grocery Joe showed up as her partner in week 1.

Joe is terrible and being saddled with another total non dancer for a trio was not really fair BUT I am not sure why the judges were all over Jenna with those “You get the MVP “ comments last night. The point of this stupid show is for the pros to teach non dancers how to dance. Just because we now often have seasons with ringers and borderline professional dancers doesn’t change that. A good number of contestants every season are still non-dancers and even non-performers like Joe. He has not improved one iota since week one and there were parts of that dance last night where Jenna had the two guys dancing way in the background almost in the shadows while she shook her booty up front. The random girl from Harry Potter was also quite clearly not a dancer but Keo managed to teach her enough steps in a week’s time to make her passable in their trio. For goodness sake, Tristan managed to create memorable, passable dances with a woman suffering from a brain tumor. Plenty of the pros have had legitimately elderly contestants. We’ve even had othetbpoorly dancing Bachelor contestants like Chris Soules who literally had to be taught how to count the beat of the music. Derek and Sharna have had contestants with missing limbs (neither of which were dancers before this show) and they STILL managed to teach them enough to look better than Joe has all season. It is BS for the judges to say to Jenna “Well, you did the best with what you have” because she absolutely did not. Joe is young, handsome enough and in good shape. He is never going to be a good dancer but he should absolutely be better than what he is showing us every week and that is on Jenna as his pro. 

Yeah, I have to disagree with the judges on their MVP comments. I think the true MVP last night was Keo. Evanna's trio partner was clearly not as good as Evanna because Evanna had been doing this show, but she was quite decent for having had no prior experience with the show.

Most of the trio partners were decent, but they were on previous seasons of DWTS, so they had dance experience. Maddie was on Dance Moms so she had dance experience. On the other hand, Jenna had a trio partner with no prior dance experience and she did jack shit. The only partner of Jenna's that has been good has been Adam but I think it is in spite of Jenna, not because of Jenna. She's an awful teacher when her partners have no experience.

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19 minutes ago, spanana said:

I also still argue there is a big difference between a David Ross type who is somewhat of an undedog, not in terms of popularity, but dance skill and etc.  A guy who comes off like an every man.  Versus whatever it is Joe is.  I get Joe comes off like the every guy and we all know the show loves an Alek Skarlatos story.  But I also think Lindsay managed to get a lot more out of Alek, even if he wasn't great, then what we have been seeing out of Joe.  Again, I don't know if that is on Jenna or if Joe is just that beyond hopeless.  So there is an underdog and man literally unable to even remotely do one dance move.  Joe manages to screw up standing in one spot and waving his arms.

You know what David and Joe have in common though? They're both from Chicago, and when I realized that, part of me honestly wondered if Joe's votes had been influenced by Chicago fever as well. 

If Joe danced like David I would be fine with him staying in the competition. Alek was not only a better dancer than Joe, but he also seemed to show more personality, so I had no problem with him finishing where he did. The fact that Joe doesn't even say much on top of everything else just gives off a white male privilege vibe that I don't get from Milo, John, or even Bobby. 

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4 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

The fact that Joe doesn't even say much on top of everything else just gives off a white male privilege vibe that I don't get from Milo, John, or even Bobby. 

I wouldn't say it's this, personally. Well, maybe a little of that, but I simply think that Joe is so average that he doesn't belong on television. He's just boring and the camera doesn't seem to love him...or maybe the camera does and he doesn't love it.

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I had no idea who Joe or Tinashe were before the season.  I watched Tinashe's dance once on the live show, and Joe's dance live plus about 6 times on YouTube.  (Val and Gleb in the background are amazing.)  I don't vote.  I don't care who wins.  I'm sure the finale will be Milo/Juan Pablo/DeMarcus anyway, so I'm not gonna have a fit when Evanna and Alexis get cut next.

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14 hours ago, vibeology said:

And don't even get me started on how the show edited Tamar Braxton.

THIS. OMG. I remember being horrified by how they treated her. It was like they took what they had done to Nastia a season prior and dialed it to 100. I don't know, nor will I join in speculating, how large a role race plays in it. But... they tend to give female contestants "bitch" edits at least once a season - especially if they're talented with big personalities - while men are "competitive." And if the men are not great dancers, they're "sweet," "bumbling," or "just trying their best."

I don't know if any of this is premeditated or overt, but TPTB seem to have some preconceived notions about how certain people should behave, and will edit them accordingly no matter what they're actually doing or saying. 

I love Grocer Joe and Bobby Bones. They're nice guys who don't deserve vitrol because they're being voted through.

However, on the opposite side, amazing women like Heather Morris, Tinashe, Tamar, and even Nancy Kerrigan didn't deserve to go before others who weren't half as good. I'm hesitant to call the voting public at large racist or sexist. However, bad taste? 100%. I watched every season of American Idol. We never got it right after season 1. Any show that is based on public votes ensures the "best" person doesn't win, and shocking boots are a must for ratings. So I don't think voters or TPTB are eager to sideline or eliminate great contestants, but for the producers, it means water-cooler talk and ratings. They're not going to get upset by the "wrong" person going home, no matter who it is.

But maybe, just maybe, we're reaching a tipping point with DWTS where, in any given season, too many good people go home while too many bad people stay, rendering the show unwatchable. Shock boots only work if there are enough good people left to carry the episodes. We still have Milo and a few other fabulous dancers left, but if they start dropping week after week while Joe and Bobby remain... we are in trouble. 

Tinashe was the best dancer this season, thus far. The season will be weaker without her. But the season will go on, and we can hope her votes go to strong dancers.

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15 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

And Jenna’s outfit was wayyy too close to inappropriate as you can get.

I've been watching this show in a distracted way, wondering why men always wear long pants and once in a while an open shirt or no shirt, while women wear practically nothing. Little bikini outfits, slits up the side, slits down to there. Why not have men dance in tiny speedo undies and fringe. I know, I know, it's our "culture," but why? Women outfits were created by men ... why? (Obvious answer.)

What was up with the third person being someone with no dance experience from some (Joe) and lots of dance experience for others (Milo, DeMarcus).

Rashid demonstrated that he is a better dancer than DeMarcus. That wasn't a good look IMO.

Joe's dance with Jordan. Oh my. When it was over, I said "That sucked" to my tv. And I never (well, seldom) talk to my tv.

What was up with Erin's fascination with the Milo/Ryker hair? It's not like they had locks down to their shoulders, or even their ears. I didn't get that at all. But then, I don't "get" Erin. I'm not a fan.

I continue to like Evanna.

Bobby's dance was the second worse of the night, close to last with Joe. Although his didn't make me say anything to my tv, so there's that.

Since I don't care who stays or who goes, I was fine with Tinashe leaving. I'm fine with any of them leaving.

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8 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Rashid demonstrated that he is a better dancer than DeMarcus. That wasn't a good look IMO

Yep and I really like DeMarcus. But watching him next to Rashad, Rashad was the one I couldn't take my eyes off of (just like his season, but I don't think that was the intention here)

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26 minutes ago, howmanywords said:

Yep and I really like DeMarcus. But watching him next to Rashad, Rashad was the one I couldn't take my eyes off of (just like his season, but I don't think that was the intention here)

Dude certainly looks good without a shirt!

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Maybe they need to retool the show? Either cast ONLY people who can dance with pros or cast ONLY people who have never taken a lesson with pros. Fix the costuming - those overalls and clunky boots wouldn't make any male dancer look or move good. What they dressed Nancy McKeown in was just a sin.  Make the celebrity carry a portion of the dance, don't just dance around them like they're a pole (looking at you Jenna).

Master P didn't want to do anything and his attitude sucked. Have we heard anyone complain that Joe isn't trying? Some people just dance like a board. It's not their fault. It's a popularity contest. Always has been. And saying people should quit because you think they suck? Well, life doesn't work that way.

If you like a contestant in advance, and are inclined to pick up a phone, you're not going to switch to someone that other people like better.  And at the end, it's a shiny piece of glitter and mindless entertainment, not the Hunger Games. 

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3 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

OK, I get protesting ringers, but then why vote for Joe of all people??? In that case channel the votes toward those who have no dance experience but who have decent skills (e.g., Demarcus).

Exactly. Also a good point. 

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I just re-watched all the dances and my favorite 3 were Milo, Mary Lou and John. I thought these teams did really well and I think John deserved a bit higher score. (And did you see the kicks he and Joey did at the beginning in the intro? I was impressed!) This might sound funny but Mary Lou is starting to have a bit of a waist-line and she never has...she always looked like a little fireplug to me! Then I had to think of my least favorite dances....easy! Joe's and Bobby's, but at least Bobby tried. (And those MC Hammer pants have to be the stupidest pants ever invented!)

One thing I did notice was that when the contestants were upstairs chatting with Erin, when you could see Jenna and "her boys", she was standing as far from them as she could. In one interview, the two men were standing together and Jenna was between Milo and Riker with Witney on the other side of the guys. I guess she didn't even want to stand with them!

Edited to add, what the heck was the other bachelor talking about when he stated he had always been sexy, just not salsa sexy....stuck on himself much? I am glad I have never watched this show and know I never will.......

Edited by suebee12
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35 minutes ago, suebee12 said:

Edited to add, what the heck was the other bachelor talking about when he stated he had always been sexy, just not salsa sexy....stuck on himself much?

That was his schtick on The Bachelor and Bachelor in Paradise. He is a MALE MODEL, emphasis on "male," and some of his THs were quite funny as yeah, he was pretty much all about himself and liked to talk, even though he didn't make sense most of the time. The Bachelorette gifted him with a pair of golden underwear/trunks if that tells you anything. A funny line last night was Joe saying he didn't want to mess up his hair in rehearsal.

About the overalls in Joe's dance ... the two (or three?) men dancing in the background (was one Val?) made those overalls pretty darn sexy. The camera did not stay on them long enough for me.

I remember the days when, if the pair didn't get into the dance as soon as the music started, Len accused them of "mucking about." Now dances are full of time wasters. Props, lots of not dancing, plus extra dancers in every routine ... this show isn't at all what it started out as. I'm guessing it wants to appeal to the Everyman, not just the dance fan. Dance fans can watch "real" dancers when PBS airs dance competitions I guess.

Edited by saber5055
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6 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

You know what David and Joe have in common though? They're both from Chicago, and when I realized that, part of me honestly wondered if Joe's votes had been influenced by Chicago fever as well. 

For what it's worth, the Chicago Tribune has covered his weekly progress on the show, so this is entirely and horribly possible.

Contemplating Brandon's uphill battle as a new pro, there's another factor that probably works against him compared with most of the other younger pros: lack of television fanbase prior to DWTS. Lindsay, Witney, and Jenna were all top 10 finalists on SYTYCD, and Alan made it through a few weeks of competition in his season -- he stood out enough back then that I recall with fondness both his partnership and their routines, and always remembered him after. But Brandon's claim to fame there is partnering Arnold sisters in auditions; the one time he was auditioning himself, he made it as far as Vegas, and I had to look this up to even remember how far he got before missing the final cut for top 20. Otherwise, his TV exposure has been as a troupe member here and then that junior competition with Brittany Cherry years ago. Since I'm not watching the current DWTS Juniors for additional insight on everyone, I've personally had trouble getting a feel yet for who he is as a teacher, choreographer, and dancer based on this alone, and I'm probably not the only viewer who feels that way. Tinashe didn't deserve this early an exit, but I do think a more experienced pro would have helped her get farther by knowing how best to maximize/showcase her strengths in terms of staging as well as choreography.

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21 hours ago, tedd said:

this is absolutely outrageous. i’m not surprised they did this to tinashe. they never want to see the best dancer win. i am shocked and furious. she has officially joined normani, sabrina bryan, brandy, heather morris, mel b, zendaya, simone, christina millian, and lil kim in the robbed hall of fame. even when you are the most consistent, it still ain’t enough. 

You forgot Mya. Here she is with Dmitry dancing Samba. One of the very best for a celebrity on this show.......

Mya and Dmitry 70s Samba

Edited by luvthepros
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5 hours ago, saber5055 said:

What was up with Erin's fascination with the Milo/Ryker hair? It's not like they had locks down to their shoulders, or even their ears. I didn't get that at all. But then, I don't "get" Erin. I'm not a fan.

She was talking to Witney, who’d been whipping her hair around like crazy throughout the routine. 

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4 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

She was talking to Witney, who’d been whipping her hair around like crazy throughout the routine. 

Yeah, but she had Milo and Ryker whip THEIR hair around (what hair they have) during the interview when she was freaking about it. She kept talking about their hair, especially Ryker's, not Witney's.

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10 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Joe didn’t make it past night one on TB.  

People like him because he’s good looking. It seems they assume he’s a good guy because he doesn’t talk hardly at all.

id rather have cringy booby than schmoe.  At least he tries.  Joe is one of those people who coast on their looks.  Resting on pretty.  I’m not having it no more. 

To each their own but where is the pretty?

49 minutes ago, luvthepros said:

You forgot Mya. Here she is with Dmitry dancing Samba. One of the very best for a celebrity on this show.......

Mya and Dmitry 70s Samba

 You know I really liked their Argentine Tango that year just as I like Derek's and Lil Kim's Argentine tango. People talk about this in their salsa but both of them were just meh to me.  I don't watch this on a regular basis. Whatever happened to Dimitri?

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23 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Bobby and Joe both have ENORMOUS fanbases. They'll both be in top four, I'm pretty sure. I think Milo can win, but you bet Bobby and/or Joe will be in F3. 

I would love to see Milo take it this season. But.....I want him to have some good competition going in to the final. Joe and Bobby are joke contestants and should have been early fodder (especially Joe). Joe is an embarrassment and can give Master P a run for his money.

This is getting ridiculous. Tinashe was a joy to watch because I enjoy great dancing (and she is beautiful too). She is the type of contestant who could give the top contestants some dance competition. As I said, I want Milo to win but not up against Joe or Bobby.

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Not enjoying the World of Dance lighting. And the trio dances seem more awkward than entertaining.  

Ummm, in Joe's dance. Gleb and Val are in the background half naked and Gleb is repeatedly thrusting a huge wrench into the hole of a tire that Val is holding up and thrusting back at Gleb. ... ... If they were trying to create a diversion from the horror of Joe's dance, they succeeded.  

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10 minutes ago, luvthepros said:

This is getting ridiculous. Tinashe was a joy to watch because I enjoy great dancing (and she is beautiful too). She is the type of contestant who could give the top contestants some dance competition. As I said, I want Milo to win but not up against Joe or Bobby.

She was so beautiful and talented, so sad she is gone. I agree that I wanted to milo and tinashe in the finals duking it out, he was so hurt to see her eliminated, they became close buddies.

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11 hours ago, spanana said:

I'm not going to pretend race doesn't play a role in this show, or sexism either.  I'm not going to pretend it doesn't bother me that we have lost four female celebs in four weeks and the ONLY male celeb that has ever been in jeopardy is John.  Now of course I know they don't tell us the real bottom two, but still.  I am not arguing against what many have said about black women and how they fare on this show, but also beyond that women celebs tend to be held to a much higher standard than the men.  On every level.  Everything they do is scrutinized, from their past experience to the way they dress.  Now I know the obvious flip side to that is the female pros are much stronger but c'mon...this season is a glaring hole of obviousness in this degree.

Also JMO, but I think there is a big difference between fun underdog who isn't the best dancer and guy who can barely walk in a straight line without stumbling.  Not saying I supported them, but David Ross is an example of the former to me.  Not great but working hard and numbers are mostly entertaining/passable and resembling dance.  I'd even put Bobby in that category.  Joe is in the can barely walk in a straight line category. 

I also thought the whole night was weird.  Trios should be later in the season when the dead weight is gone.  They also IMO should be either all pros or returning celebs, not a mix of random people.  I prefer pros.  Otherwise you get the weird unfairness of last night.  I actually will argue Evanna had the greatest disadvantage.  Because while Jenna's trio was obviously worse, Jordan is at least recognizable to Joe's base.  Evanna got her her friend who was in HP, but not in a big enough role that anyone cares about, nor does said friend have a fanbase.  On top of not being that great a dancer...though she tried.  I wouldn't even be surprised to see Evanna go next week.

The only trios I really enjoyed were Milo's and shockingly, Mary Lou's.  Oh, Tinashe's was good too and I think Brandon was clever with the choreo in terms of his celebs didn't match up, plus Amy's limitations.  Alexis's was fine.

 

spanana, I agree with your posts that I had to quote them.  Even though I agree with both posts, I did cut them.  Otherwise, this post would be long.  There are lots of reasons why Tinashe got eliminated and when you add them up, it's not a surprise that she was eliminated early.  What did surprise me is that she got cut on Week 4.  Sabrina Bryan was eliminated on Week 6 both times she was on.  Heather Morris was also eliminated on Week 6.  So I expected Tinashe to last at least two more weeks.

As others mentioned, race and sexism could have played a part.  Four women have been eliminated in a row.  We could potentially see an all male finale.  It would be a joke if both Joe and Bobby made it to the finale.

Tinashe was probably not well known for the DWTS older demographic.  I didn't know her.  I knew John, Nancy, and Mary Lou.  So basically the older contestants.  Brandon is also a new pro so he doesn't have a large fan base either.

There is the ringer backlash.  Bobby didn't help when he mentioned that Tinashe was a professional dancer during the show and on social media.  Is she really a professional dancer or is she more of a singer?  Heather Morris was a professional dancer.  When she mentioned being on Britney Spears show, I couldn't tell if she meant that she was a background dancer for Britney or if she sang with her.  I don't care if there are ringers on this show but others do.  So when you combine Bobby's comment with the Britney reference, there will be people that won't vote for her based on that.  Side note - Didn't like that Bobby singled out both Tinashe and DeMarcus especially since the latter doesn't have dance training.

This week's elimination was based on last week's show.  It was Most Memorable Year theme.  I think if you don't have lots of fans voting for you, then you need an emotional story.  Alexis had one.  Tinashe didn't.  I think this is the reason why Kristin Cavallari was voted off even though she was one of the better dancers during that season.

I also agree with what you said about Joe.  Is this the first time that he had Latin?  He and the other Bachelor was just walking.  There was no hip action at all.  I think Jenna did the best that she could with that situation.  The other Bachelor wasn't going to learn anything in one week.

My favorite trio was Milo, Witney, and Ryker.  Second favorite was MaryLou, Sasha, and Nastia.  Then I think Alexis and Tanishe's trios are next.  Brandon showed that he can choreograph to a celebrity with limitations.

Other thoughts:

Melissa, Cheryl, and JP - Never liked Melissa doing Latin and my opinion is the same.  Cheryl looked really good and she did know how to flirt with the camera.

John, Joey, and Emma - Thought that their piece was going to be funny since Joey was in it but it wasn't.  It was a mess especially the lifts.  Love the song but you need strong performers to dance to it.  They were not except for Emma.

DeMarcus, Rashad, and Lindsay - As somebody else mentioned, it just showed how much better Rashad is in comparison to DeMarcus.

Lindsey, Bobby, and Sharna - Fun and they did get the MC Hammer part.  But way too little cha cha.

Evanna, Keo, and friend - I think it's not a good sign that I forgot about them until I read your post.  Her friend was obviously not as good as Evanna.  However, she wasn't a distraction so there's that.

The three matador piece with Artem, Val, and Gleb was hot.

10 hours ago, spanana said:

Also not to what you posted, but since I also saw it in this thread.  I've seen some criticism angled at Witney supposedly stealing Lindsay's choreo from her Jordan trio last season.  To which I call bull.  I'm not sure if the backlash I've seen is coming from Lindsay fans or Jordan fans or just people that hate Witney, but it's a salsa trio.  There are only so many salsa steps in existence.  In order to choreograph a trio salsa, Witney was going to have to use some of the same dance steps.  I have no idea if Wit choreographed her routine on her own or if she had help, but either way it wasn't a ripoff of Lindsay's number.

I think it's about both.  Believe me that I've never been in the best dancer always has to win box.  I think the winner just needs to have a mix of decent ability, decent performance and a likeable personality.  That doesn't always need to be the best technical dancer.  However this show has had ringers since the very beginning, so it's hard to pretend that the show was always about unnatural dancers improving over time.  Yeah, for sure that was part of it but there was ringer backlash starting in season 1.  If you want to see the ultimate showdown in that arena, just check out S3 and Emmitt vs. Mario Lopez.

 

I didn't think Witney's salsa trio looked like Lindsey's salsa trio either.  Some salsa steps looked similar but the routine as a whole looked different.  Also, if Witney's and Lindsay's choreo have some similarities, it's because they had the same teachers.  Lots of times, a dancer's choreography is based off who taught them.  Brandon will have the same influence.  

Agree with the last paragraph.  Rashad wasn't the best technical dancer during his season.  That would have been Heather.  But it wasn't a tragedy that he won.  David Ross was not a good dancer so I'm glad he was second and didn't win.  

Edited by realdancemom · Reason: Shortened quotes
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32 minutes ago, luvthepros said:

I would love to see Milo take it this season. But.....I want him to have some good competition going in to the final. Joe and Bobby are joke contestants and should have been early fodder (especially Joe). Joe is an embarrassment and can give Master P a run for his money.

This is getting ridiculous. Tinashe was a joy to watch because I enjoy great dancing (and she is beautiful too). She is the type of contestant who could give the top contestants some dance competition. As I said, I want Milo to win but not up against Joe or Bobby.

ITA.  I was rooting for Milo to win after the second week.  But I was waiting for Tinashe and Brandon to win me over with one of their dances.  Would have loved to see both Milo and Tinashe in the finals.  Yuck if it's Joe and Bobby especially Joe.

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Joe's trio will go down at the worse trio of all time. I thought Bonners season 24 was bad but honey, this took the whole cake. Joe is awful, absolutely awful. This is the first time I have ever felt sorry for Jenna because its like she is begging to be put out of her misery by giving his awful choreography because of his bad dancing.

 

Milos and Tinashe had the best trios, choreography and execution wise. 

Edited by vdw84
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I don’t think it was bad that Jordan was the third dancer, other than handicapping Jenna.

The only reason Joe is there’s is because of the Bachelor.  He and Jordan became friends.  Jordan was very popular and brought the personality (albeit fake) so he’s a good energy addition to Joes journey.  Not to mention he had a pretty epic breakup as well so capitalized on that extended 15 MOF.

And well it helped that Jordan was actually worse than Joe in the dancing department.  His foot work was worse and never got that shirt off.  Jordan you had one job.

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On 10/15/2018 at 9:05 PM, kcrabtree06 said:

If there was anything I learned from tonight’s episode, it’s choose your trio partner wisely. That third person (Riker vs Jordan) can definitely make or break the dance.

It definitely makes or breaks it, but do the celebs/pros choose their trio partner, or do the producers tell them who they're going to dance with?

On 10/15/2018 at 9:07 PM, Dancelove said:

Actually it was a rip of Lindsay's Salsa from last season. 

There were definite similarities, but enough differences that I wouldn't call it a copy. Lindsay's was even better, though!

On 10/15/2018 at 9:23 PM, Toonces464 said:

I had absolutely zero interest in the trios with the third person who had nothing to do with the show. Whoever came up with that idea should be fired immediately. If they couldn't find three more contestants willing to participate then they should have just thrown the troupe in. Or former pros.

Oh my dear Rashad. I wanted to love it, but I just couldn't. Even with you in it. 

Wasn't it always troupe members or pros who had been eliminated thus far in the season? Also, I felt like it was always an opposite-gender third person (Artem with Val & Rumer, Lindsay with Witney and Alfonso, etc). It worked so much better that way! 

13 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Won't it take until next week to boot him for whatever the hell that was last night? I don't know how the show works anymore, but I thought this week's boots were based on votes from last week's show? 

What really hurt the entertainment value of that trainwreck was the fact that Jordan's shirt malfunction really took him out of the role/character he was supposed to play and he

As far as this dance, as I watched it, I thought that they should do the trios differently based on gender of the celeb so they can be in the center. If it had been Evanna and 2 guys, she might have stood out more, but having Keo in the center of the 2 women, he just naturally drew the eye. (Then again, Milo/Ryker/Witney had the same format and I still managed to watch Milo and especially Riker, so maybe it's just about choreography and staging). 

Right...only Joe's score from the judges counted on Monday. It's this Monday that the votes will matter. Agree completely on the trios - Milo just happens to be charismatic enough to pull attention, but the other celebs dancing with the same gender trio partner didn't fare all that well. 

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Again, watched on delay and paused before the results...

Juan Pablo-That was a good dance to start the night off.

Is it just me, or is Len getting a little more risque with his comments this season?

Tinashe-This song being done for a tango immediately turned me off, and the story for the dance, a courtroom, didn't make sense to me. The actual dance itself looked technically good, though.

John-I wish he would be a little bit sharper in some of his movements, but not a bad dance. Having Joey didn't do him any favors, nor did getting his phone number wrong.

Evanna-Well, that was energetic, if kind of sloppy in places. I'm calling it right now that Scarlett will be a contestant next season.

DeMarcus-Ouch (the finger), and Rashad just showed how he has the "it" factor that DeMarcus doesn't have.

Mary Lou-Well, dang, Sasha is a lot stronger than I would have thought! That was a fun dance, and she did a good job.

Milo-That was impressive, he should be a front-runner for sure!  This dance made me smile, and I love it when that happens. as a side note, Carrie Ann is rude.

Joe-He's actually proud of picking that song?! Ugh. The pre-dance package was cringy, as was the dance. Shoot, I was embarrassed for them.  The best part about it, besides it ending, was Val and Gleb. Joe seriously needs to be eliminated tonight. 5s were generous.

Alexis-It's curious that Maddie didn't mention Dance Moms. The lighting made it hard for me to tell what was going on for most of the dance.

Bobby-How did he get the pimp spot? He was more tolerable tonight, until he talked to the judges. He and Joe should be the next two to go, but I know I'm probably about to be disappointed...

On to the results...

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And, holy crap! Neither one of them should have been in jeopardy, but of the two, Evanna should have been the one to go. I have a feeling Tinashe didn't have the fan support, plus being with Brandon, who is not an established pro, didn't help. I am honestly sad to see them go.

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16 hours ago, bealled said:

I also was really starting to like Brandon. They need to keep him in the cast.

Me, too. I thought he had some really good, creative choreography. I hope he's back as a pro next season.

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On 10/16/2018 at 1:25 AM, kirklandia said:

Not a total waste of two hours - I'm still chuckling over Len's comment "Well, you nailed the Hammer part".

Len had a great night with his one liners. The one I loved was what he said to Demarcus about good it was his finger that got hit rather than something else (I'm paraphrasing that). Not only the line was funny but Len's delivery and facial expression was priceless.

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Late to the party, because the only person who impressed me on this episode was Ryker.

I am a huge Bachelor fan (yea, I know, LOL) and I think Joe is a really nice guy. But I had to FF through most of his performance. I was cringing that much. No way am I voting for him!

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7 minutes ago, spanana said:

I cut down yours as well, but I agree.  I wasn't surprised Tinashe went, just surprised it was this early and before Alexis.  Especially since last week they put her in jeopardy which is generally done to help rile fans up to save that person the next week.  So it's telling that enough people still didn't care enough to rally to save her.  My caveat on Alexis is just what you said.  MMY is very manipulative so if you have a sob story and not a great dance there is a good chance you might stay over someone that didn't have a sob story and a better dance.  Alexis and her emotion in MMY were genuine IMO, but the point was she had a sad story that people at home could relate to in some way.  It's always a calculated risk when people do happy stories on MMY.  I also agree that the most blatant example I can remember was Kristin Cavallari who did I believe a happy samba or something about moving to LA, which wasn't bad at all, but her story was so generic and happy and nonexistent that nobody cared.  A happy lightweight story for MMY can work if you're a Milo or a Zendaya whose performance quality is so high that nobody really cares, but it's a calculated risk if you aren't that type of performer.

No, Rashad wasn't the best technical dancer but I rooted for him.  Largely for Emma, largely because I enjoyed him and also it was the most entertaining partnership for me.  To me the winner needs to be a mix of a) a good to great dancer who doesn't have to be the most technical of the season, b) usually a natural performer/strong performance skills, c) a good pro relationship/partnership including strong choreo from said pro and d) likeable and humble (at least in DWTS presentation).  It's also for all those reasons that I 99.9% think Milo is winning this season.  He checks all the boxes.

Something just still doesnt add up. I mean Tinashe was top scorer for past 3 dances and she avoided elimination twice, I mean even avoided that dreadful bottom 6 the first week. Im just confused at where all her votes went because homegirl was getting votes but then it just stopped.

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