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S13 E11: Staying Strong


ByTor
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1 hour ago, rose711 said:

But just like the media simulation, I doubt they were briefed on what was appropriate ahead of time. It was just another test.  I’m sure if she knew what to wear, she could easily pull it off.

There are many situations that the DCC will get thrown into that they won’t be briefed about: sponsor events, showing up at schools, grocery store appearances, etc.

I think the luncheon was a great test to see if the girls understand how to dress and act in certain situations. It may be unfair if they haven’t learned these lessons prior to DCC, but life ain’t always fair!  And that’s why maturity goes a long way, and girls who have gone through college or university will be better prepared for these. 

Victoria has obviously never been to a nice dinner except as the daughter/child of someone. And that’s exactly what her dress looked like. 

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1 hour ago, Stee said:

There are many situations that the DCC will get thrown into that they won’t be briefed about: sponsor events, showing up at schools, grocery store appearances, etc.

I think the luncheon was a great test to see if the girls understand how to dress and act in certain situations. It may be unfair if they haven’t learned these lessons prior to DCC, but life ain’t always fair!  And that’s why maturity goes a long way, and girls who have gone through college or university will be better prepared for these. 

Victoria has obviously never been to a nice dinner except as the daughter/child of someone. And that’s exactly what her dress looked like. 

I think Victoria has been in the bottom in every activity in training camp except Travis Wall liked her weeks ago.  Other than that, I don’t recall her doing well at anything. Yet, she expected to make show group.

I agree she’s just too young and immature and it shows in all she does.  

Edited by rose711
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12 hours ago, Jess14 said:

I think my perception is clouded by the "I hope they cleaned it out" comment

That really annoyed me.  What does she think, that the kitchen staff stand around every day and wait for the hunters to come to the back door with their fresh killed quail, which they are then responsible for cleaning out?  IMO another example of her "Aren't I just the cutest lil' country thang you ever saw?" that she has going on. 

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1 hour ago, Stee said:

There are many situations that the DCC will get thrown into that they won’t be briefed about: sponsor events, showing up at schools, grocery store appearances, etc.

I think the luncheon was a great test to see if the girls understand how to dress and act in certain situations. It may be unfair if they haven’t learned these lessons prior to DCC, but life ain’t always fair!  And that’s why maturity goes a long way, and girls who have gone through college or university will be better prepared for these. 

Victoria has obviously never been to a nice dinner except as the daughter/child of someone. And that’s exactly what her dress looked like. 

Colleen tried to be as nice about it as possible. The look on Kelli's face pretty much said it all. ?

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On 10/12/2018 at 10:36 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I loathe that too. 

Waist up: Hi, I’m a sweet wholesome all American girl...

Waist down: who might yank these bottoms right off at any second so that you can fuck me!

Same with the bikini bottoms in the swimsuit shots:  "Whoops!  Is that my vagina?  tee hee!"

 

2 hours ago, Stee said:

Victoria has obviously never been to a nice dinner except as the daughter/child of someone. And that’s exactly what her dress looked like. 

Isn't the restaurant her dad manages fairly upscale?  Maybe he makes her eat in the kitchen when they go there.  

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3 hours ago, rose711 said:

It looked like a party dress not a lunch dress. It was too bright and unprofessional with the ruffle. It would have been a “don’t” at the Belk shows. 

Also, I think it made her look young compared to the other candidates. She needs to look more mature and less like a high schooler.

But just like the media simulation, I doubt they were briefed on what was appropriate ahead of time. It was just another test.  I’m sure if she knew what to wear, she could easily pull it off.

I don’t know. I definitely think the color was the biggest issue, but otherwise I didn’t see a huge problem,  Her dress looked like what they wear to their first meeting, and looked like a dress that you might see a young women wear at an afternoon wedding. You could definitely make it more cocktail-ish with shoes and accessory, but I didn’t think she looked out of place with everyone else.

As for the ruffle, I’m an attorney, and I see professional women, especially younger women, wear dresses and shirts with ruffles (and skirts with ruffles at the bottom) and flowers, etc to social events, and even at work sometimes. It’s just one of the in styles right now. Certainly, if it was a business luncheon, that’s a different story, but the DCC rarely seem to be at those sorts of events. 

Maybe it’s the fact that VK looks so old to me that I just don’t see her as looking younger than the other girls. I think she looks closer to 30 no matter what she has on lol!! 

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2 hours ago, Stee said:

There are many situations that the DCC will get thrown into that they won’t be briefed about: sponsor events, showing up at schools, grocery store appearances, etc.

I think the luncheon was a great test to see if the girls understand how to dress and act in certain situations. It may be unfair if they haven’t learned these lessons prior to DCC, but life ain’t always fair!  And that’s why maturity goes a long way, and girls who have gone through college or university will be better prepared for these. 

Victoria has obviously never been to a nice dinner except as the daughter/child of someone. And that’s exactly what her dress looked like. 

I didn't think her dress looked bad, or was inappropriate, but her earrings, now that is a whole different topic! The earrings were definitely high school pizza joint!

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16 minutes ago, Jess14 said:

I didn’t see a huge problem,  Her dress looked like what they wear to their first meeting, and looked like a dress that you might see a young women wear at an afternoon wedding. You could definitely make it more cocktail-ish with shoes and accessory, but I didn’t think she looked out of place with everyone else.

Same.  I think the dress is not professional enough for a business lunch, but for lunch with other dancers?  Perfectly acceptable IMO (ruffles and color included).  Different professions have different "rules" for what is acceptable to wear at interviews, for example (a CPA and a fashion designer would not be expected to dress the same), and the same holds true for afternoon outings.

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On 10/12/2018 at 7:47 PM, Pink-n-Green said:

A Kentuckian friend of mine served ham biscuits at his wedding.  I pretty much tackled the waiter every time he walked out of the kitchen with a fresh tray.  You folks know your biscuits.

According to the September, 2017 issue of Forbes, the Dallas Cowboys are worth $4.2 Billion.  If they had to pay for more cheerleaders, the franchise would surely collapse.

Yes we do :) especially my grandmother's...they were the best!!  

And I know...two more cheerleaders will cause them financial ruin...and yes I just giggled when I read this!! 

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On 10/15/2018 at 10:43 AM, Mardo2044 said:

Maybe someone talked about this, but there is a bonus clip of VK being critiqued about her dress on etiquette day.  I could not see if it was a luncheon attire knee length or longer, but I think pink is a nice color for her.  It did not have cut-outs.  Maybe it didn't come across the same on camera but it did not look terribly out of place to me. Then again, the etiquette person would typically know.  I am curious what others think http://www.cmt.com/video-clips/c09u4q/dallas-cowboys-cheerleaders-making-the-team-noticed-for-the-wrong-reason

I heard Kelli say that once again they are going to make accomodations for VK and send her out to be "polished" before the season starts so she stops being a TOTAL embarrassment. Have they ever done "Operation Polish" for anyone else?

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10 minutes ago, nittanyvolleyball said:

Talk about dresses, what the heck was Alanna wearing?

Any pictures? I don’t even remember seeing her. She has definitely flown under the radar! 

One more note on VK....while her hair is beautiful, i think that it’s almost too much. I know it fits the DCC look, but it’s look all over the place at times.

Edited by Jess14
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16 minutes ago, jlc said:

I heard Kelli say that once again they are going to make accomodations for VK and send her out to be "polished" before the season starts so she stops being a TOTAL embarrassment. Have they ever done "Operation Polish" for anyone else?

I remember others saying on here that Kelli did have someone (can't remember who) read the Jackie O (it was Jackie O, right?) book. I'm sure that doesn't even come remotely close to the "polish" Victoria needs (&, in Victoria's mind, wouldn't be useful to her anyway since Jackie O was never an immature 18 year old trying out for DCC ?)

Edited by hannahbanana
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As someone who attends A LOT of luncheons during the spring social season, I can tell you there’s nothing wrong with Victoria’s dress or her earrings. It was completely appropriate and in style.... luncheons at the society level are extremely fashion conscious. As long as your boobs aren’t hanging out, the dress isn’t too short, and you’re relatively stylish, you’re fine. Her dress would’ve fit in beautifully at most Dallas or Houston luncheons last season. One shoulder and ruffles were huge last season. Pink was too. It was perfectly fine for this etiquette class. 

 

Obviously business luncheons have different rules, but I don’t go to those. ?

Edited by PrincessLeia
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32 minutes ago, jlc said:

I heard Kelli say that once again they are going to make accomodations for VK and send her out to be "polished" before the season starts so she stops being a TOTAL embarrassment. Have they ever done "Operation Polish" for anyone else?

I just re-watched it & Kelli says Victoria WOULD BE a perfect candidate for an operation polish, not that they were going to do it (doesn't mean she didn't try, though).

Edited by hannahbanana
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20 minutes ago, PrincessLeia said:

As someone who attends A LOT of luncheons during the spring social season, I can tell you there’s nothing wrong with Victoria’s dress or her earrings. It was completely appropriate and in style.... luncheons at the society level are extremely fashion conscious. As long as your boobs aren’t hanging out, the dress isn’t too short, and you’re relatively stylish, you’re fine. Her dress would’ve fit in beautifully at most Dallas or Houston luncheons last season. One shoulder and ruffles were huge last season. Pink was too. It was perfectly fine for this etiquette class. 

 

Obviously business luncheons have different rules, but I don’t go to those. ?

Exactly, and IMO a "professional luncheon's" dress requirement with dancers is totally different than a "professional luncheon" with lawyers/accountants/bankers etc...

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16 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Exactly, and IMO a "professional luncheon's" dress requirement with dancers is totally different than a "professional luncheon" with lawyers/accountants/bankers etc...

I wonder what the etiquette trainer was thinking about then?  She’s the one who singled out Victoria. I know that dress wouldn’t work in New York but Dallas has different fashion.

Maybe they were expecting them to dress for a luncheon with business people and not dancers? How many luncheons do they go to anyway? 

Of all of Victoria’s issues, getting her a new dress and a hairbrush should be very simple to fix. They already fixed her makeup at cameos. 

If this were her only problem, instead of just another one on the list, it wouldn’t be a big deal.

i wonder why they didn’t put it in the show?

Edited by rose711
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35 minutes ago, rose711 said:

I wonder what the etiquette trainer was thinking about then?  She’s the one who singled out Victoria. I know that dress wouldn’t work in New York but Dallas has different fashion.

Maybe they were expecting them to dress for a luncheon with business people and not dancers? How many luncheons do they go to anyway? 

That’s all I can think of. IIRC, the dress she pointed out as being appropriate was Brennan’s, and it seemed to be more business casual. Definitely stylish, but something that I could wear to work if I’m not wearing a suit that day. VK’s outfit looked more like a dress for an afternoon luncheon during the summer/spring, which to me, seemed in line with the event.

To be honest, I’m curious as to how often they end up at luncheons and dinners for their work with DCC. They don’t seem to post many pictures of these types of events, though that doesn’t mean that they don’t occur. 

It’s especially strange to given what they wear to the first welcome meeting. I thought VK’s dress was more cocktail-is there. You had other girls in a range of outfits from I’ll-fitting rompers (looking at you Christina!) to sundresses to dressier luncheon/evening dinner dresses to business casual. But they draw the line during the etiquette class? I’m confused as to want them to wear lol.

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51 minutes ago, rose711 said:

I wonder what the etiquette trainer was thinking about then?

My opinion (based on absolutely nothing but instinct LOL) is that Colleen stepped out of her area of expertise to critique fashion rather than manners (which she is darn good at).

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53 minutes ago, rose711 said:

How many luncheons do they go to anyway? 

 

5 minutes ago, Jess14 said:

I’m curious as to how often they end up at luncheons and dinners for their work with DCC.

I'm with both of you in wondering how many they attend.  If I had to guess, I would say not many at all (only because I haven't seen much mentioned about this on social media, and the events they do go to do seem to get posted).

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27 minutes ago, ByTor said:

 

I'm with both of you in wondering how many they attend.  If I had to guess, I would say not many at all (only because I haven't seen much mentioned about this on social media, and the events they do go to do seem to get posted).

There's a lot that they do that doesn't get posted.  

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2 minutes ago, scorpio1031 said:

There's a lot that they do that doesn't get posted.  

Is there?  Not doubting you, but it seems like the DCC social media do tend to post events that they attend.

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2 hours ago, nittanyvolleyball said:

Talk about dresses, what the heck was Alanna wearing?

Yeah that thing was ugly as sin.   To me if anyone wore anything they shouldn’t have to that luncheon it was her.   It looked like a beauty salon smock at the top, but also w/ a hideous flower pattern on it.   Almost like something a nun would wear if they were allowed to decorate their habit in a floral print.  Just bad.

Edited by MyFavShows
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3 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Is there?  Not doubting you, but it seems like the DCC social media do tend to post events that they attend.

I'm sorry, let me clarify - I'm talking show group.  They do corporate events and appearances that aren't talked about on their social media.  

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4 minutes ago, scorpio1031 said:

I'm sorry, let me clarify - I'm talking show group.  They do corporate events and appearances that aren't talked about on their social media.  

Gotcha.  And it's true, just because something isn't on social media doesn't mean it didn't happen.

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On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 4:37 PM, Jess14 said:

 

I don't care for gamey meat either though. It's one reason why I'm not a big fan of duck.

Arby's just announced a new menu item in certain markets - a duck sandwich.  I thought of you when I saw it......LOL!!!!  

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1 hour ago, scorpio1031 said:

Arby's just announced a new menu item in certain markets - a duck sandwich.  I thought of you when I saw it......LOL!!!!  

Eew.. I'll take a hard pass on that. I'm also going to make the bold prediction that this will not be a long-lived product on the menu. My father really likes duck, and I doubt even he would eat a duck sandwich from Arby's lol. 

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2 hours ago, scorpio1031 said:

Arby's just announced a new menu item in certain markets - a duck sandwich.  I thought of you when I saw it......LOL!!!!  

???  Arby needs to stick with what they have been trying to do best for 50 yrs - roast beef. small like of chicken sandwiches.

Leave ducks to the high end restaurants. I didn't think duck was all that cheap for a fast food restaurant to turn a profit.

With the rise of people who don't eat meat growing, I didn't think adding a another meat sandwich in the world is the best move. I wish them the best.. 

 

arby.png.6bd86d404913a5e89a36b862505cee14.png

Edited by sATL
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The Duck sandwich is only at sixteen locations, so I won't even have to hear about it.       They also have huge turkey ones too, for those who don't like duck.    

I would love to see the etiquette lesson include one of the huge burgers, or meat sandwiches that are so thick you have to squash it to get it in your mouth, and when you pick it up the sauce drips everywhere.   That would be a challenge that would be fun to see.  

I love the etiquette class, and because of the hurricane induced cable outage, I missed it.     Maybe they'll have a marathon before the finale, and i can see it.  

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4 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

The Duck sandwich is only at sixteen locations, so I won't even have to hear about it.       They also have huge turkey ones too, for those who don't like duck.    

I would love to see the etiquette lesson include one of the huge burgers, or meat sandwiches that are so thick you have to squash it to get it in your mouth, and when you pick it up the sauce drips everywhere.   That would be a challenge that would be fun to see.  

I love the etiquette class, and because of the hurricane induced cable outage, I missed it.     Maybe they'll have a marathon before the finale, and i can see it.  

the episode was on cmt.com . Did they take it down , already ?

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8 hours ago, rose711 said:

I wonder what the etiquette trainer was thinking about then?  She’s the one who singled out Victoria. I know that dress wouldn’t work in New York but Dallas has different fashion.

Maybe they were expecting them to dress for a luncheon with business people and not dancers? How many luncheons do they go to anyway? 

Of all of Victoria’s issues, getting her a new dress and a hairbrush should be very simple to fix. They already fixed her makeup at cameos. 

If this were her only problem, instead of just another one on the list, it wouldn’t be a big deal.

i wonder why they didn’t put it in the show?

 

You can’t compare what’s appropriate in NYC vs. Texas. Completely different styles.... I’d be lost in NYC fashion, although my cousin who lives there says stick to black or gray when confused! 

 

If thdy were expecting them to dress for a business luncheon, then no one was dressed appropriately, including Kelli Finglass

Edited by PrincessLeia
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44 minutes ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

I don't know, since the cable outage the link from my cable company to other network sites has been shaky at best.      Reading on here is just like seeing it though, because other posters catch things I wouldn't even notice.  

I hope you’re ok from the hurricane. I went through Sandy and I know a bit of how damaging and difficult it can be. 

You can buy a single episode from amazon if you want but maybe it will be repeated.

42 minutes ago, PrincessLeia said:

You can’t compare what’s appropriate in NYC vs. Texas. Completely different styles.... I’d be lost in NYC fashion, although my cousin who lives there says stick to black or gray when confused! 

 

If thdy were expecting them to dress for a business luncheon, then no one was dressed appropriately, including Kelli Finglass

Just wear black and avoid pastels. That pink dress wouldn’t be worn by any girl out of elementary school here- it’s just too bright. 

On the other hand New Yorkers are so absorbed with their own lives, I would just wear what you want. No one will really care.

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7 minutes ago, rose711 said:

 

Just wear black and avoid pastels. That pink dress wouldn’t be worn by any girl out of elementary school here- it’s just too bright. 

On the other hand New Yorkers are so absorbed with their own lives, I would just wear what you want. No one will really care.

I’d die in New York. No Lilly Pulitzer or Trina Turk. Or bright colors. 

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11 hours ago, Jess14 said:

As for the ruffle, I’m an attorney, and I see professional women, especially younger women, wear dresses and shirts with ruffles (and skirts with ruffles at the bottom) and flowers, etc to social events, and even at work sometimes. It’s just one of the in styles right now.

Lordy I hate ruffles and bows and both are the IN thing this year.  I refuse to buy anything with bows which is why I have nothing to wear to church nowadays.  And I want my shoulders covered up or I freeze.

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11 hours ago, Jess14 said:

Any pictures? I don’t even remember seeing her. She has definitely flown under the radar! 

One more note on VK....while her hair is beautiful, i think that it’s almost too much. I know it fits the DCC look, but it’s look all over the place at times.

 

Omg, so under the radar! I thought for sure she’d be among he first cut!! she literally looks like a neanderthal with a univrow and all when they show shots of her skipping across the field. Sounds like her dancing is amazing, wish we could see 3 less VK sound bites and replace with 15 more seconds of Alana dancing in each episode. 

10 hours ago, rose711 said:

I wonder what the etiquette trainer was thinking about then?  She’s the one who singled out Victoria. I know that dress wouldn’t work in New York but Dallas has different fashion.

Maybe they were expecting them to dress for a luncheon with business people and not dancers? How many luncheons do they go to anyway? 

Of all of Victoria’s issues, getting her a new dress and a hairbrush should be very simple to fix. They already fixed her makeup at cameos. 

If this were her only problem, instead of just another one on the list, it wouldn’t be a big deal.

i wonder why they didn’t put it in the show?

 

 

9 hours ago, ByTor said:

My opinion (based on absolutely nothing but instinct LOL) is that Colleen stepped out of her area of expertise to critique fashion rather than manners (which she is darn good at).

My conspiracy theory is that the producers asked her to pick someone and suggested VK. I can i my imagine that this is someone’s terrible and ill advised master plan to feature her so much and keep her from being cut for so long. #conspiracy

30 minutes ago, PrincessLeia said:

I’d die in New York. No Lilly Pulitzer or Trina Turk. Or bright colors. 

Omg. The opposite. I’d die if you made me wear that. I’m not going to go full NY (although my wardrobe does have an above average amount of tan/grey/black) but LP is a bridge too far. 

Edited by WinkyFace
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8 hours ago, ByTor said:

Gotcha.  And it's true, just because something isn't on social media doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Link or it didn’t happen. 

I know I’m an old geezer, and that phrase is probably 10 years old, but I laughed so loudly the first time I saw it posted on the internet. 

4 hours ago, scorpio1031 said:

Arby's just announced a new menu item in certain markets - a duck sandwich.  I thought of you when I saw it......LOL!!!!  

It seems like Arby’s is always rolling out weird menu items. I’ve seen a roast beef gyro and a Hawaiian fish sandwich to name two. 

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38 minutes ago, parrotfeathers said:

Lordy I hate ruffles and bows and both are the IN thing this year.  I refuse to buy anything with bows which is why I have nothing to wear to church nowadays.  And I want my shoulders covered up or I freeze.

Lol! That’s how I felt when big, thick belts around the waist were in style. I didn’t really like them, but I went along with crowd and bought several. Im short, so in pictures, the belt looks like it takes up half of my torso. I cringe so hard looking at some of those pictures lol.

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12 hours ago, hannahbanana said:

I remember others saying on here that Kelli did have someone (can't remember who) read the Jackie O (it was Jackie O, right?) book. I'm sure that doesn't even come remotely close to the "polish" Victoria needs (&, in Victoria's mind, wouldn't be useful to her anyway since Jackie O was never an immature 18 year old trying out for DCC ?)

The Jackie O book task was given to Megan Flaherty and not because of her etiquette. She wasn't mixing in with the other girls in the bonding events and Kelli told her she needed to develop grace. I found the whole thing odd. Megan tried out 3 times and got into training camp all 3 but always ended up getting cut because she just couldn't learn the routines. After she was cut the third time she told Kelli and Judi off for bringing her back and cutting her again. 

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1 hour ago, SSAHotchner said:

The Jackie O book task was given to Megan Flaherty and not because of her etiquette. She wasn't mixing in with the other girls in the bonding events and Kelli told her she needed to develop grace. I found the whole thing odd. Megan tried out 3 times and got into training camp all 3 but always ended up getting cut because she just couldn't learn the routines. After she was cut the third time she told Kelli and Judi off for bringing her back and cutting her again. 

I bought the book after watching the episode and tried to do the assignment myself...and I couldn’t. Neither could Meghan. The book didn’t offer examples of graciousness. So dumb.  

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4 hours ago, PrincessLeia said:

I’d die in New York. No Lilly Pulitzer or Trina Turk. Or bright colors. 

Oh hell to the no.  Give me some faded well loved jeans, a slub tee and some cute ankle boots or comfy sneaks & I’m good.  I don’t need a lot of fuss.  I’m more about comfort with a little boho thrown in.

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2 hours ago, SSAHotchner said:

The Jackie O book task was given to Megan Flaherty and not because of her etiquette. She wasn't mixing in with the other girls in the bonding events and Kelli told her she needed to develop grace. I found the whole thing odd. Megan tried out 3 times and got into training camp all 3 but always ended up getting cut because she just couldn't learn the routines. After she was cut the third time she told Kelli and Judi off for bringing her back and cutting her again. 

 

1 hour ago, PBSLover said:

I bought the book after watching the episode and tried to do the assignment myself...and I couldn’t. Neither could Meghan. The book didn’t offer examples of graciousness. So dumb.  

I totally remember when Kelli told Megan to read that Jackie O. book and it made me laugh because it reminded me of Elaine on Seinfeld:

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19 hours ago, PrincessLeia said:

As someone who attends A LOT of luncheons during the spring social season, I can tell you there’s nothing wrong with Victoria’s dress or her earrings. It was completely appropriate and in style.... luncheons at the society level are extremely fashion conscious. As long as your boobs aren’t hanging out, the dress isn’t too short, and you’re relatively stylish, you’re fine. Her dress would’ve fit in beautifully at most Dallas or Houston luncheons last season. One shoulder and ruffles were huge last season. Pink was too. It was perfectly fine for this etiquette class. 

 

Obviously business luncheons have different rules, but I don’t go to those. ?

I loved her dress, but those earrings ? Agreed that the dress would have been perfect at most Dallas luncheons I’ve attended, and that includes Junior League events, various fundraisers, brunch at the Zodiac downtown, etc. The color is bright but not inappropriate. 

8 hours ago, PrincessLeia said:

I’d die in New York. No Lilly Pulitzer or Trina Turk. Or bright colors. 

LMAO. When I was in NY for fashion week I always loved those showrooms to brighten things up...those and Kate Spade and Alice  & Olivia. Not at New Yorkers are dark and dreary, but color does seem to be more of an accessory. 

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6 hours ago, go4luca said:

Oh hell to the no.  Give me some faded well loved jeans, a slub tee and some cute ankle boots or comfy sneaks & I’m good.  I don’t need a lot of fuss.  I’m more about comfort with a little boho thrown in.

LP and TT are designed for comfort.... most of their pieces, including dresses. It’s just a completely different style than wearing jeans and a T-shirt. Plus, COLOR.

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I thought it would be interesting to see more about the place they held the luncheon.  Since they don’t allow cell phones, I guess colleen’s whistle was out of the question.  

 

https://www.thestarinfrisco.com/cowboys-club/members

I read somewhere (either on this board or the spoiler or FB) that appropriate dress for specific occasions is covered in their DCC Bible.  If that is correct and VK followed it, she should not have been singled out. Of course the opposite is true, also.

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