S07.E15: Last Chance for Romance

[Ilovepie]

6 hours ago, Kareem said:

The huge wad of insecurities that is Amber decided once again that "I'll be Agatha Nagatha! That will make him love me!" and tequila was required in order to deal with her.

I think this is it exactly - the more she pushes, the more turned off he gets. He is just so frustrated at this point he can't even try to be nice anymore.  I think this process is turning both of them into alcoholics.......

[Ilovepie]

4 hours ago, CousinOliver said:

Add me to the "Dave doesn't bother me' camp.  I get wanting reassurance, but once he's expressed his feelings, what more is he supposed to say? She wants assurances that they'll stay together on decision day, but can he give that without lying? She wants to hear 'I love you', but does he? I'm against lying when Mia does it; Dave doesn't get a unlimited "free lies to make Amber feel happy" pass.  Wouldn't it be worse to profess false love to someone days before you (might) say, "go home"?

He knew he wasn't giving her what she wants, but nonstop reassurances and professions of love that does not exist are not owed to her just because she wants them.  

Thank you! I couldn't figure out a way to this, but you expressed my exact feeling on all the Dave stuff. He's not the warmest, but that is his personality. I don't think he has some grand scheme to humiliate Amber. It's not his job to constantly reassure her, which seems to be what she expects. Meanwhile, she does absolutely nothing for him other than sex (according to Dave on Unfiltered). He has every right to reject her, just like everyone else does on this show. He has been upfront with her, she doesn't like his answer, so she just keeps pushing. It doesn't make him a bad person because they matched him with a neurotic woman and he doesn't love her. She is exhausting. I think he really tried to make this work, but she just can't let it go and he's fed up. I would be too.

[seacliffsal]

I am totally that person that will get frustrated and start shutting down when asked the same thing over and over again-even after I have stated that I don't want to discuss it anymore and my answer is not changing (and I'm female-not that it matters).  I think Amber thinks she will wear Dave down to the point that he'll say what she wants him to say.  Nope.  Once someone reaches the point when they no longer want to discuss the EXACT SAME THING over and over, it can actually start creating a negative response towards the "talker" that wasn't there before.  I have actually told someone over the phone that I was going to hang up as I gave the exact same response three times and the person refused to accept it.  I am so exhausted by Amber.  I think she is a nice person, but she has to understand that she cannot control someone else's emotions and responses and has to just allow them to develop their own feelings at their own pace.

Amber wants Dave to say certain things and Bobby wants Danielle to say that she loves him.  However, Bobby allows Danielle to proceed at her own pace and does not demand that she says things she is not ready to say.

[Marsh]

4 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

I'm definitely Team Dave, in the debacle known as "Dave and Amber". I know a lot of you dislike Dave, and I respect that, but honestly, Amber would drive me crazy.

Believe me Amber drives EVERYONE crazy.  Need to clear up some confusion on this subject - I think at this point of the season the majority of us are split into two groups:

 

1. People that dislike Amber, but like Dave. 

2. People that dislike both Amber and Dave.

 

These groups don't exist:

 

3. People who like Amber but don't like Dave.

4. People who like both Amber and Dave. 

5. People who like Mia. (had to throw that in there)

[islandgal140]

When Mia was darkening Tristan's hotel room doorstep it just came to me who/what Mia reminds me of - Wybie from Coraline.  Something about her posture, her energy and they way she walks reminds me of that character.

I can't even with Tristan and Mia. I believe Tristan. Mia is just a low level sociopath. She actually fixed her mouth to say that she thought all their problems were minor ones to Tristan's shock and surprise. When she noticed he didn't agree with that assessment she asked him what he thought their big issues were to which he rightly replied: you told me you wanted a divorce and walked out on me!! There is something really wrong with her. I don't think much of Tristan even entertaining being in her presence at this point. Then these 2 idiots cuddle on the couch and exchange "I love yous" WTF?!!? At this point, they are just sticking around for the $$. Makes no sense. 

12 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Amber means: Just tell me you won’t dump me on Decision Day you asshole...reassure me so I can relax the next few days...

Yeah, Amber wants a spoiler/sneak preview of decision day. LOL!  Amber is stuck in a self-fulfilling prophecy spiral. Her feelings that Dave isn't attracted to her are feeding her insecurities and her constant need to be reassured is driving Dave away. 

The resolution to the Dave/Amber fight was the most nonsensical thing to happen on the show.

[Ilovepie]

@Marsh I think you summed it up correctly. I am definitely in camp #1. I think how you feel about these people is somewhat influenced by your own personality and personal experiences with people like Dave. I am a woman, but I happen to have a personality like Dave, so maybe that is why I don't see a bunch of red flags.  I also don't feel he has made her more insecure -I don't think that's even possible with Amber: she was always crazy insecure.

I don't think Amber is a bad person, but she needs help big time. Maybe she wouldn't have come across as needy as she does if she had been matched with someone more nurturing, but she would still need help nonetheless.

You are correct that #5 doesn't exist! ;-)

[Crazy Bird Lady]

1 hour ago, Marsh said:

Believe me Amber drives EVERYONE crazy. I think at this point of the season the majority of us are split into two groups:

1. People that dislike Amber, but like Dave. 

2. People that dislike both Amber and Dave.

I agree with that.

Quote

These groups don't exist:

3. People who like Amber but don't like Dave.

4. People who like both Amber and Dave. 

5. People who like Mia. (had to throw that in there)

Um... As far as #3 is concerned, I think it might depend on what you mean by "like" Amber. 

Amber is stressful and can be annoying, for sure. I imagine that Amber's best (girl) friends probably get long phone calls from her on a regular basis, in which discussion topics are: Amber, her life, her feelings, and her concerns. I also imagine it is difficult to get off the phone with her.

But I don't think she's a bad person, per se.

I consider myself in group #2, except I'm not unsympathetic to Amber's emotional/"relationship" problems. I think she's trained herself not to let her face reveal emotions -and that's not a good thing. It means she's determined not to let others see what she's feeling (the same skill that expert poker players have --or children of alcoholic/abusive families). It doesn't benefit Amber when the show's "experts" intervene to "help" her. Amber needs a year or so with a talented psych counselor, one whose focus is on helping Amber (not on making more drama to increase ratings for the show). 

Am I that one oddball who "likes" Amber?

Edited October 10, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[KateHearts]

Amber's expression rarely changes. Her eyes don't really show much emotion at all- she will say, "I'm really worried what's going to happen on decision day..." with the same flat expression as when she says, "I'm really enjoying today and I think it will help our relationship."  It's fascinating to me.  She has a funny little bulldog look to her that is, for the most part, very neutral.  If I were truly baffled and upset that I wasn't sure he wanted to stay or cared for me, I think a little frown would appear. It's hard to believe her.  And I think in part it's not because she really cares for him or wants to grow the relationship, it's that she doesn't want to start over yet again, or look bad on TV. 

Bobby made cinnamon rolls. Bobby taught Danielle how to fish in waders.  Bobby uncomplainingly accepts two new foster dogs.  Personally, I would view him as somewhat of a doormat, which is unappealing in my book.

Tristan and Mia- I really turned my head for a minute after the "I want a divorce" and dramatic walkout/frantic phone calls/Mia's disappeared scene and next thing I see is the two of them on the couch in their usual positions: "cuddling," where tristan is sprawled on the couch and Mia is curled in a fetal position, facing away from him, neck hunched in, turtle-style.  They are the most interesting study in body language ever. I'm not sure I fully believe either one of their accounts of their numerous fights. He seems irritable and critical; she plays victim and overdramatizes everything.  What's a really stupid reason for demanding a divorce and leaving in the dead of night? Why, to see if he REALLY loves you and begs for you to stay, of course!

[humbleopinion]

Ever see a more awkward picnic than Tristan and Mia at Lady Bird Johnson Lake?

Eat 2 grapes, pass cold water bottles...and CUT!...let's get you 2 fakers outta here...leave those swans alone....

[Neurochick]

Amber seems like the type of woman who, if she and Dave stayed married, would be asking him every five minutes, "do you love me?"  That would drive me nutso.

I get Danielle, I have a friend who really loves me, yet I just don't have the same feelings for him.  However, some people need to act their way into right thinking, while others think their way into right acting.

[DocTerv]

Amber and Dave are fine when they have some activity to distract them from how much they dislike each other (frequent sex nothwithstanding). As long as there is some bright shiny object for them to focus on they can deal with being together but when they have to actually talk to each other it all goes to hell. Amber seems like a needy, self-centered mess and Dave sort of seems to enjoy poking her insecurities with a stick. I think Dave might actually be tolerable if they'd paired him with a confident woman who'd just go on about her business without requiring constant reassurance. That woman would  just tell him straight out when he's being a dick.   

[humbleopinion]

Mountain Fork Brewery: The flights of beers...Danielle and Bobby struggle to even taste them all...

Amber and Dave would throw those down with hardly a breath between the chugs and slamming the empty glasses on the table.

 Dog report: Pretty copper doggie at the river....

[princelina]

1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

I am totally that person that will get frustrated and start shutting down when asked the same thing over and over again-even after I have stated that I don't want to discuss it anymore and my answer is not changing (and I'm female-not that it matters).  I think Amber thinks she will wear Dave down to the point that he'll say what she wants him to say.  Nope. 

And if that did happen, she'd start with, "Do you really mean it?  I think you are just saying that because you knew I wanted you to say it."  Aaaaaaaaaargh!!

 

1 hour ago, Crazy Bird Lady said:

Am I that one oddball who "likes" Amber?

I don't "dislike" Amber, but I am firmly on Team Dave in this relationship :)

 

52 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Ever see a more awkward picnic than Tristan and Mia at Lady Bird Johnson Lake?

Eat 2 grapes, pass cold water bottles...and CUT!...let's get you 2 fakers outta here...leave those swans alone....

I know, right?  They couldn't even fake sitting in the grass on the blanket - just there on the curb with the awkwardly-shaped-producer-provided food basket.

[humbleopinion]

Danielle states that her marriage to Bobby has been a stabilizing force in her life and she can't imagine life without him...she has quickly forgotten how to pick up dog poop, make her travel coffee, her breakfast, her lunch, and the lame salads she used to call dinner instead of the home cooked dinners that Bobby prepares..

 Ricky Bobby is most likely washing her clothes, her car, her dogs...doing the housework, the tidying up...BUT...Bobby thinks all those tasks  are small sacrifices he is willing to do so Danielle has no distractions when she gets home, except to relax and spend time with him and the puppers.

 Not unlike Dave, Danielle also believes the experiment is an organic process cannot be accelerating to the next level until it feels right.

Bobby is a patient man but his nerves may get the best of him....he wants this so badly.

America wants this so badly..

We need Bobby and Danielle to wash the stank of Tristan and Mia off.

If Danielle dumps Bobby...

Henry will never forgive her and will be forever looking at her with heavy lidded contempt ...thinking...you dumb beyotch...you messed up my cushy life, made me leave my huge yard, say goodbye to my pack with Nellie and foster dogs, but most of all...are keeping me from my alpha male...New Dad....

Edited October 10, 2018 by humbleopinion

[endure]

Amber you have all but driven Dave away by your incessant insecurities whether it's your hair your height, your cooking.  The relationship is all about you and it does not matter what he says you never believe him.  Grow up and sfu!

[stuckin60s]

I found it interesting that during the unfiltered episodes that Dave said he sends flowers to Ambers office and calls her during the day. he repeats how attractive he thinks she is etc...

he also said she does not do special things for him.   She is a spoiled insecure mess.  She needs therapy and Dave is not the one to do it.  They might stay together at decision day but not long afterward

As far as Jamie and the others in the same clothes, aren't the unfiltered filmed on the same day?  When describing the events the participants say things like " I was feeling XYZ at the time"

I also wish Amber would say feelings and not fillings

[Lusterleaf]

 I don't blame Dave for being frustrated with Amber. It would drive most people nuts to constantly have to reassure Amber every two seconds that she is wanted/attractive. (with the exception of Bobby, who likes showering his wife with affection/comments)....Though Dave could have communicated his frustrations with Amber, instead of being cold and not answering her.

I think Amber would have been better matched with someone like Bobby- he fits her bill - he does everything around the house, will raise her children, and will constantly be told that she is loved.

[humbleopinion]

Bobby would be flummoxed just by Amber's nightly beauty regimen...the wipes, the cleansers, the pre-treatments, the post treatments, the lotions, the potions, the serums....dabbing this here then dabbing that  there before massaging lamb's placenta as a night mask....

Bobby washes his face with a bar of LAVA...the grit in a bar of LAVA is what keeps his skin baby bottom smooth and pores small...

Amber would kill to have Ricky Bobby's porcelain skin undamaged by the sun, unblemished by daily boozing and never subjected to being ridden hard and put away wet......

 

Amber does have unique ways of saying certain words...maybe Dave is confused and wonders why she keeps talking about his teeth..his fillings...

Edited October 10, 2018 by humbleopinion

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

America wants this so badly..

Not really, I couldn't give two shits if Danielle and Bobby divorce, it might be a shame but it's not the end of the world.

Like Tristan said, some people are tired of being single, but not ready to be married.

Amber does say "fillings" but come on,  most intelligent folks would know she's saying "feelings." I hope Dave isn't that dim.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Neurochick

[Ilovepie]

2 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Ever see a more awkward picnic than Tristan and Mia at Lady Bird Johnson Lake?

I know, right? It was like Tristan was grilling Mia on what she had learned like a child! Also, was it my imagination, or was Mia wearing slippers in the park???

[Waterlilly]

I think the producers gave Tristan and Mia the welcome basket a sheet and told them to go out there and act like you’re having a picnic. Just wear whatever. 

HaHa Humble lava soap!  Been a lon g time since I have heard that. 

[Kiss my mutt]

Sure Dave has feelings for Amber....indifference except for sexual attraction. 

Amber is tiresome but Mia and Tristan need to just go. I don’t care about either one of those losers

[nell]

I think we're being played on the breakups/makeups just to add some drama before decision day.  Really over this show - there is so little new content, and so much repetition.  

Danielle, I mean this in the kindest way:  you are a beautiful girl; lighten up those eyebrows - too severe for your pretty face!

[LuvMyShows]

6 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Ever see a more awkward picnic than Tristan and Mia at Lady Bird Johnson Lake?

Eat 2 grapes, pass cold water bottles...and CUT!...let's get you 2 fakers outta here...leave those swans alone....

 

5 hours ago, princelina said:

I know, right?  They couldn't even fake sitting in the grass on the blanket - just there on the curb with the awkwardly-shaped-producer-provided food basket.

Plus it was so weird that they were facing away from the water.  They could have sat facing the water, on the blanket/grass, a little farther back, and still accommodated the camera crew.  But what was truly weird was when Mia said it looked pretty, and Tristan replied, "How do you know?"    

[Jax7917]

I'm not buying that danielle hasn't told bobby she loves him .  I just think the producers are making her hold back from saying it on camera because they think that'll give the viewers some doubt about them staying together in the end and add suspense ... but it's just very stupid because more than any other couple that's ever been on this show , it's so obvious that they'll stay together . 

[kira28]

From what we have been shown Dave just isn't into amber. Yes she's way too insecure but I kind of get that since Dave isn't overly expressive. He seems like he has barely contained rage toward her at times and he's gritting his teeth when he talks to her. I think amber isn't a very good partner. She does nothing for him except sex him up every day. She seems to do nothing thoughtful but expects so much from Dave. And would be exhausting to be around! So yeah Dave I feel for u. 

[Yeah No]

I guess I don't see Amber the way a lot of people do.  I see it as she needs to know Dave feels about her the same way she feels about him, and his inability to give her that is not the answer she wants, so she just keeps asking the question hoping to get a different answer.  I don't agree that she should do that, but the fact still remains that he doesn't feel the same way for her as she does for him.  He just keeps weaseling around the issue every time she brings it up by telling her he wants things to go in that direction and is doing everything he has been asked to do, yada yada, but she knows he isn't into her and is trying to get him to be real with her.  He is not really being open or honest with her, though, and that's why she keeps picking away at him.  He wants her to think there's a hope and a chance of things ending up where she wants them to go if she just backs off, but I think she knows better.  Hell, even I know better!  It doesn't take a crystal ball to see his feelings for her wouldn't go anywhere even if she backed off and let things just keep going on and on forever with no pressure.  He'd be more than happy to take her down that road and leave her off when he was good and done with her, though.  She has every reason to be concerned about this given that decision day is in oh, a WEEK.  Sorry but he's an asshole.

9 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Amber seems like the type of woman who, if she and Dave stayed married, would be asking him every five minutes, "do you love me?"  That would drive me nutso.

We all need to be with someone that doesn't make us feel insecure.  If we are, we are with the wrong person.  It doesn't always mean that the person feeling insecure in the relationship is a mess or has problems.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Yeah No
Would be nice if I called him "Dave".

[Yeah No]

9 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I don't think Amber is a bad person, but she needs help big time. Maybe she wouldn't have come across as needy as she does if she had been matched with someone more nurturing, but she would still need help nonetheless.

I think she would need help to get over the idiots that didn't return her feelings and gave her "baggage", including Dave.

[crgirl412]

I am just watching this now and I'm about half-way through the episode and can see why Dave isn't married. 

Right now, they remind me of the type of couple who have been together (but not married, maybe engaged) for years, like 5+ and now basically hate each other.  

[Yeah No]

10 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

I am totally that person that will get frustrated and start shutting down when asked the same thing over and over again-even after I have stated that I don't want to discuss it anymore and my answer is not changing (and I'm female-not that it matters).  I think Amber thinks she will wear Dave down to the point that he'll say what she wants him to say.  Nope.  Once someone reaches the point when they no longer want to discuss the EXACT SAME THING over and over, it can actually start creating a negative response towards the "talker" that wasn't there before.  I have actually told someone over the phone that I was going to hang up as I gave the exact same response three times and the person refused to accept it.  I am so exhausted by Amber.  I think she is a nice person, but she has to understand that she cannot control someone else's emotions and responses and has to just allow them to develop their own feelings at their own pace.

I agree with you that Amber's tactic is making things worse, but as to allowing feelings to develop "at their own pace", that might be much easier to do if the couple weren't already married like Dave and Amber are, and have the looming deadline of decision day coming up in a week.  Those two facts make this a very different kind of situation where the stakes are higher and she needs to have more certainty about his feelings for her to be confident about saying "yes" on decision day.

10 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Amber wants Dave to say certain things and Bobby wants Danielle to say that she loves him.  However, Bobby allows Danielle to proceed at her own pace and does not demand that she says things she is not ready to say.

First of all, I am in the camp here that thinks it's BS that Danielle hasn't already said "I love you" to Bobby and that this is some kind of producer gimmick to make us worry about the future of their relationship in the absence of any REAL issue between them.  But even if that's not the case, Danielle's body language is more than obvious with Bobby.  She looks at him with big eyes, writes him penned letters telling him how much she LOVES being with him and every little thing he does for her, and how she can't believe how they matched her with someone so "perfect" for her, blah blah blah.  Dave does NOTHING EVEN CLOSE to any of that.  We see nothing but his cold dead eyes.   This is a monumental difference between them, and one that makes ALL the difference in my opinion.

[Yeah No]

I'm going to apologize in advance for all these posts, but all the talk about Amber has pressed a button, I guess.

I think Amber nailing Dave down like she was in this episode is evidence of her strength, not her weakness.  She is standing up for herself in demanding to know whether he has deeper feelings for her, which he obviously doesn't.  She is just trying to be strong and face it, that's why she keeps asking.  She really doesn't want it to be true, but she needs to keep going to the dry well to finally accept that it's never going to bear any water.

I think Amber has every right at this point to expect that her feelings be returned if she is going to put any more energy into this relationship.  She shouldn't at this point be content with shutting up and "just seeing where things will go" with him, because 9 times out of 10 by this point we all know where this is going to go, and it's not to a good place.  So I see her as being strong and standing up for herself in this episode, not being an "insecure nag".

[Crazy Bird Lady]

On 10/10/2018 at 10:54 PM, Yeah No said:

I think Amber nailing Dave down like she was in this episode is evidence of her strength, not her weakness.  She is standing up for herself in demanding to know whether he has deeper feelings for her, which he obviously doesn't.  She is just trying to be strong and face it, that's why she keeps asking.  She really doesn't want it to be true, but she needs to keep going to the dry well to finally accept that it's never going to bear any water.

You said that so well! It's what I think, too.

I was damn well proud of Amber when she actually called Dave a dick because he was being one!! Amber spent probably half the afternoon trying to get Dave to at least answer her question of whether he would want to be there, at that resort, with her [if it wasn't a contrived activity mandated by MAFS]. He never really answered her --except by saying something huffy like, "Well I certainly don't want to be here with you when you keep asking me questions like this!!" (And it's true -- the definition of stupidity is doing the exact same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. Amber hasn't learned that, she probably never will.)

I do get it that Amber has caught herself in a trap where she's in love with a husband who's always got time for her in bed, but never has time to listen. I'm really pissed at her, though. After all of that, how could she turn around and make nice with Dave just in time to "go to bed a little early"... Amber, you idiot.  You crumpled like a napkin and gave in!!

The truth is, all the spouses are sounding each other out, trying to figure out what the other one may say on Decision day. Each in their own ways. It's why Tristan and Mia are playing the "I didn't put you out, you left me" game, then they got back together and all curled up in that sad bed. Then they fought in the car about whether or not they would choose to stay together at Decision Day, and Tristan pretty much told Mia he can't handle all her drama. So then she leaves in the middle of the night, saying she wants a divorce --but then comes right back in the morning spinning her tale that she didn't really want to leave, she just wanted Tristan to beg her to stay so she'd know he really loved her.

Even Danielle and Bobby had their own version of that one. Again during the mini-moon, Bobby poured out his heart and his love to Danielle, telling how very important she is to him (and, yes, hoping she'll at least answer him back with something like "you're the most thoughtful, kind, and special man I've ever been with, and I love the times we spend together. (Compromise is a good thing.) I get it that Danielle isn't comfortable saying "I love you" to Bobby at this point, and she shouldn't. What she should do is tell Bobby what he means to her, and why it makes her happy being married to him -Instead of responding with bored and super self-centered quips like, "I love how you make me coffee in the morning."

(I guess I'm a little mad at Danielle, too.)

Edited October 12, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Ilovepie]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I think she would need help to get over the idiots that didn't return her feelings and gave her "baggage", including Dave.

I think we just are on opposite sides re: Dave. She is partly responsible for the baggage she is getting this time - she signed up for this knowing the odds of a successful match were not great, and she is also actively sabotaging this relationship by her neediness. I don’t think this makes Dave an idiot. I do not feel sorry for her, except for the fact that she just doesn’t see that she is part of her own problem with men.

[endure]

Does Amber express her undying love or her huge like, if not yet love to David on a regular basis?  Just curious or is it just about her.  I seem to have missed some episodes along the way.

.

[LennieBriscoe]

Amber should have played the "Not tonight,  Dear; I have a headache" card LONG before Decision Day.  

I don't see Bobby as a pushover or any other kind of weak. He's been The Man with (imaginary mental landscape):

"I want you to learn to skeet-shoot, fly-fish, and picnic in my pick-up, because  that's my world. I'll make your coffee and pack your lunch,  but you're going to make an honest attempt at making dinner. I'll care for the dogs,  but I'm going to let you know it's a 'beat-down'. I respect your autonomy  enough not to pressure you to express an emotion you don't wish to.  

Finally,  I tell you I love you in the security of marriage, not in the trepidation of dating."

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, Ilovepie said:

I think we just are on opposite sides re: Dave. She is partly responsible for the baggage she is getting this time - she signed up for this knowing the odds of a successful match were not great, and she is also actively sabotaging this relationship by her neediness. I don’t think this makes Dave an idiot. I do not feel sorry for her, except for the fact that she just doesn’t see that she is part of her own problem with men.

I understand your opinion, but I think it borders on blaming Amber for getting stuck with a guy that isn't into her, and that's just not fair because in this case she had absolutely nothing to do with who got matched with her other than to answer some questions about what she was looking for in a guy.   I don't think that's enough to put on her shoulders.  As to self sabotage, I personally don't think anything she would have done differently with Dave would have made one iota of difference.  Just from my own experience as a woman in situations like this, I don't believe she would have started acting like that until she knew it was a foregone conclusion that he was just not going to dig on her whatsoever.  I see her reaction as after the fact.  I also think she knew deep down that SHE wasn't really clicking with HIM either.  So I believe she knew she had nothing to lose at that point by acting in what appears to be a self-sabotaging way.  Besides, in my experience, women usually don't act that insecure around a guy unless there's a really good reason.  I have never personally known any case of this in which that wasn't the case.  I am just sick and tired of the women always getting blamed for this.  It's almost like a "gaslight" situation (we've already seen that term used this season).  Dave comes off looking great while Amber looks like a needy mess when the real situation is much different.  I personally think he's communicating to her in subtle verbal and non-verbal ways that she's just not good enough and that's where her reaction is coming from.  In fact, it's so obvious we can even see some of it on camera.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Yeah No

[humbleopinion]

 To quote Anna Scott from Knotting Hill...

I'm just a girl, standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her.

Amber wants to know if Dave can love her.

Bobby wants to know if Danielle can love him.

Just give her/him a yes or no.

Dave, can you love Amber?

Danielle, can you love Bobby?

Edited October 11, 2018 by humbleopinion

[Empress1]

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I see it as she needs to know Dave feels about her the same way she feels about him, and his inability to give her that is not the answer she wants, so she just keeps asking the question hoping to get a different answer.

Oh, I think that's exactly what she's doing. And didn't Dave say that during the outing this episode? The problem is that that's a fruitless tactic.

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I think Amber has every right at this point to expect that her feelings be returned if she is going to put any more energy into this relationship.  She shouldn't at this point be content with shutting up and "just seeing where things will go" with him, because 9 times out of 10 by this point we all know where this is going to go, and it's not to a good place.  So I see her as being strong and standing up for herself in this episode, not being an "insecure nag".

I agree, but her feelings aren't returned. They've apparently had the same conversation many times and she hasn't gotten the answer she wanted. So now what?

The way I see it, she has two choices. She can either realize that her feelings aren't returned and cut bait, or she can hang in there and see if Dave's feelings get stronger. But she can't keep asking him if he has feelings for her because it doesn't get her the answer she wants. She wants him to love her, which IS reasonable, but asking how he feels about her every five seconds isn't the way to do that - there's NO way to do that. He will fall in love with her or he won't, but the constant temperature-taking isn't helping and she knows it isn't helping.

I would see her standing up for herself if she were like, "I'm there, you're not going to get there, I deserve to be loved, good luck." And I was glad that she told Dave straight up that he was being a dick, because he was. That's standing up for herself. Asking the same question over and over isn't standing up for oneself, IMO. There's no benefit to it - she doesn't get the answer she wants AND she gets on Dave's nerves and he lets her know, which makes her feel worse. Whether or not they continue isn't solely up to Dave, you know?  

[DocTerv]

By FAR the most interesting thing about this show is reading the different interpretations of what is going on in these "marriages". I really enjoy everyone's thoughtful comments. And the snark of course! Ban Danielle's chunky eyebrow stencil! 

[Ilovepie]

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I understand your opinion, but I think it borders on blaming Amber for getting stuck with a guy that isn't into her, and that's just not fair because in this case she had absolutely nothing to do with who got matched with her other than to answer some questions about what she was looking for in a guy.   I don't think that's enough to put on her shoulders.  As to self sabotage, I personally don't think anything she would have done differently with Dave would have made one iota of difference.  Just from my own experience as a woman in situations like this, I don't believe she would have started acting like that until she knew it was a foregone conclusion that he was just not going to dig on her whatsoever.  I see her reaction as after the fact.  I also think she knew deep down that SHE wasn't really clicking with HIM either.  So I believe she knew she had nothing to lose at that point by acting in what appears to be a self-sabotaging way.  Besides, in my experience, women usually don't act that insecure around a guy unless there's a really good reason.  I have never personally known any case of this in which that wasn't the case.  I am just sick and tired of the women always getting blamed for this.  It's almost like a "gaslight" situation (we've already seen that term used this season).  Dave comes off looking great while Amber looks like a needy mess when the real situation is much different.  I personally think he's communicating to her in subtle verbal and non-verbal ways that she's just not good enough and that's where her reaction is coming from.  In fact, it's so obvious we can even see some of it on camera.

I’m not saying it’s her fault he’s not into her, but she had to know it was a possibility she could end up divorced at the end of this. That is why I am putting some of it on her. I don’t think either one of them looks good in this scenario, but I do think Dave honestly tried and her behavior has been a huge turn off for him. I think if he had been matched with someone less needy and more confident he could have made a successful match if he was attracted to the person. I don’t think she would be successful with anyone because she is needy and selfish. I don’t think he made her insecure; she already was coming into this, and besides, she is like that with other people not just him.

Everyone, including Dave, has told her she is over analyzing. He has reassured her a lot and she won’t accept it. Neither of them can be what the other wants or needs. Dave is not going to become a coddling nurturer. He is into brutal honesty. She is not going to suddenly stop second guessing everything he says which just makes him more frustrated and thus more brutal honesty. It’s a vicious cycle at this point and they are just not right for each other. I think we all agree on that. I just don’t view his behavior as negatively as hers.

[gonecrackers]

I don't know whether to commend Amber's persistence or SMH at her intense, sad need for validation from such a cold, critical fish of a man, because I would've shut down with him a long time ago. I think she is rightfully wary of Decision Day & afterward when the cameras leave & *reality* truly hits.

Dave brings out the worst in her, & the show has made sure we've seen all of it. This marriage is not something she needs to cling to.

On Unfiltered Dave was definitely enjoying watching the clips of himself (& JamieO & her legs) a bit too much. His demeanor there didn't do anything for my opinion of him. I find him passive aggressively smug, & even a little creepy. How Amber ever boinked this guy twice a day is beyond me. She either deserves a medal or a smack upside the head. Either way she (& Tristan) will need lots of recovery time from their public disintegration.

Take Paisley & run back home Amber.  Leave Dave, alone, feeling blameless & secure in his sterile environment with all his 'bro' pictures.

[Crazy Bird Lady]

5 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

I don't know whether to commend Amber's persistence or SMH at her intense, sad need for validation from such a cold, critical fish of a man, because I would've shut down with him a long time ago. I think she is rightfully wary of Decision Day & afterward when the cameras leave & *reality* truly hits.

Dave brings out the worst in her, & the show has made sure we've seen all of it. This marriage is not something she needs to cling to.

On Unfiltered Dave was definitely enjoying watching the clips of himself (& JamieO & her legs) a bit too much. His demeanor there didn't do anything for my opinion of him. I find him passive aggressively smug, & even a little creepy. How Amber ever boinked this guy twice a day is beyond me. She either deserves a medal or a smack upside the head. Either way she (& Tristan) will need lots of recovery time from their public disintegration.

Take Paisley & run back home Amber.  Leave Dave, alone, feeling blameless & secure in his sterile environment with all his 'bro' pictures.

If only!!

Oh, and (most importantly): Amber, don't do a MIa and come crawling back to him the next morning. Let The Dick get himself one of those anatomical dolls if he wants to continue having "sex every night, and sometimes in the morning"! 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Marley GMA]

I'm curious and may have missed the episode but have Danielle and Bobby even consummated their marriage?

[Lusterleaf]

36 minutes ago, Kmascio5660 said:

I'm curious and may have missed the episode but have Danielle and Bobby even consummated their marriage?

Yes they have- Danielle made mention in one of the episodes that his small ring size has no meaning....

[Neurochick]

15 hours ago, Yeah No said:

We all need to be with someone that doesn't make us feel insecure.  If we are, we are with the wrong person.  It doesn't always mean that the person feeling insecure in the relationship is a mess or has problems.

Yes, but if you keep asking someone, "do you love me," over and over again even AFTER the person has said yes, then maybe the issue is with you.

However, I think Dave and Amber were doomed from the start; from when he realized she'd dated men he knew from their gym, and when he said his celebrity crush was Jessica Biel.

I also think that some of these folks don't really know what love is.  They keep waiting for something that commercials and romantic movies tell they they're supposed to feel.  I think it's different for every couple, and you really can't compare your relationship to someone else's.

I think before anyone says "I do" on this show; the show really needs to figure out why these people are single in the first place.  There aren't cookie cutter reasons, so the show needs to figure it out BEFORE the wedding day.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Neurochick

[humbleopinion]

Amber: Dave, thank you for saying that you will stay married to me on Decision Day.

Dave: More wine?

Amber: Yes, please.

Amber: I feel better now. The wine is very good.

Amber: What about the Reunion Show?

Dave: What about the Reunion Show?

Amber : Can I assume you will want to stay married between Decision Day and the Reunion Show?

Dave: Considering the 2 shows are 7 days apart there is a good chance we will continue to be married.

Amber: Why can't you just promise me?

Dave: I will still be going through the process organically and if I stall at a level and cannot advance to the next level then who knows....

Amber : You can't stay married to me for an additional 7 days?

What if I move back to my apartment with Paisley for the 7 days?

Dave:I can't accelerate or stop or stall or pause or control the process...

Amber: Well, that's shitty.

Dave: Yes, this is.....

[LuvMyShows]

9 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I would see her standing up for herself if she were like, "I'm there, you're not going to get there, I deserve to be loved, good luck." And I was glad that she told Dave straight up that he was being a dick, because he was. That's standing up for herself. Asking the same question over and over isn't standing up for oneself, IMO. 

This!

[Crazy Bird Lady]

12 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I would see her [Amber] standing up for herself if she were like, "I'm there, you're not going to get there, I deserve to be loved, good luck." And I was glad that she told Dave straight up that he was being a dick, because he was. That's standing up for herself. 

Absolutely. I think almost all of us would want to see that.

Unfortunately, I think it took quite a lot of alcohol for Amber to even tell Dave he was being a dick. Amber is afraid, very afraid.  ...Of Dave. ...Of his cold, hard criticisms, his judgements, and his ultimate complete rejection of her.

Amber knows it's coming, how could she not?! --But still she convinces herself that Dave's coldly 'logical' argument ("proving" that it's all 100% Amber's fault) is correct.

In Amber's mind, their inevitable divorce really might be all her fault, caused by her "unreasonable insecurities." And the things she's insecure about may really be all in her imagination.  Amber doesn't want that to be true; she's afraid that it is. That's why a sober Amber will never, ever "stand up for herself" without a bunch of professional help.

          ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Amber acts like a battered woman -or at least, like a woman who has learned from her past that it's not safe to "stand up for herself".

Frustrating, isn't it?

Edited October 12, 2018 by Crazy Bird Lady

[Happyfatchick]

On 10/9/2018 at 8:43 PM, LilaFowler said:

Watching Tristan on Unfiltered -- I'm more on his side now. I believe his version of events in terms of Mia leaving the apartment.

Danielle is extremely articulate. I'm not surprised that she's successful in software sales.

Re Danielle:  I just noted that for the first time tonight.  She is supremely articulate.  She’s the go-to voice on unfiltered, isnt she?  Insightful and thoughtful without harshness.   Suddenly, I’m liking Danielle a whole lot.  (I didn’t “dislike” her before, but suddenly, she seems so smart).  She’s also diplomatic.  

[qtpye]

I can't help but wonder if the genders had been reversed in the Bobby/Danielle dynamic.... and it was the female doing everything for the male along with saying they love them as much as their family...would people be as charmed? Is it more likely that the female would come off as desperate/pathetic and people would be screaming at her to stop pressuring the man to tell her "I love you" after such a short period of time? I was kind of thinking what comes off as such a sweet gesture in a man/might look totally different on a woman.