A Million Other Reasons: Speculation

[formerlyfreedom]

A place to discuss what may or may not happen (Spoiler-free) for A Million Little Things.

[HazelEyes4325]

The only part of the story I can speculate about so far is the Eddie mess.  I think it will come out that while he "loves" Delilah, he's been warming beds around the neighborhood.  I just can't imagine that they would bring Constance Zimmer in for a 1 line red herring, so I'm sure that she will be one of his conquests.  My guess is that Eddie will pine over Delilah for a bit until the truth about the other women comes out and then he'll have to deal with Katherine (and I hope that they give Katherine some respect here).  

The rest of the show...Rome will continue to be depressed?  Gary will continue to woo Maggie?  We haven't been given much with either of those lines yet.

One thing I really do NOT want to see is that it ultimately comes out that John's death was accidental.  Not that I want anyone to commit suicide, but I think that would be a cheap cop-out for this show.  If you start going down the road of him commit suicide, you need to stick with it.

[TrudyC]

19 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

One thing I really do NOT want to see is that it ultimately comes out that John's death was accidental.  Not that I want anyone to commit suicide, but I think that would be a cheap cop-out for this show.  If you start going down the road of him commit suicide, you need to stick with it.

I don't think this will happen. The story is told in a way where we know without a doubt that it was a suicide. Everything from the height of the balcony wall (he would have had to climb over it), to the quick ecstatic grin he flashes when he tells the person on the phone that he won't be able to deal with this in the future (paraphrasing). I think you're probably right about Zimmer. I saw her name in the credits and didn't realize that was her. I assume she'll be back, too.

[shapeshifter]

First, a caveat: I have been interested in time travel since my 8th grade science fair project, and I am now grandmother aged.

That said, when the 3 women are talking by themselves, Rome's wife says, "I'm here for you. Whatever you need," to which Jon's widow replies that she needs a time machine.

So.

I will not be surprised if at the end of the series we learn that in fact Eddie and Jon's wife have hooked up, Rome is dead, etc., and Jon is still alive. 

Or something like that.

[HazelEyes4325]

This is more wishlist than speculation (because whoever writes the press releases for upcoming episodes has pretty much killed the opportunity for speculation...), but I really want to know how Katherine and Eddie got together.  Their pairing makes no sense--although, pairing anyone with Eddie at this point makes no sense because he's not a functioning adult.  But she's a very capable and successful lawyer and he once had a hit song.  Was she some sort of groupie a decade ago?  Did he actually have some promise a decade ago?  I'd really like to know because, right now, none of it is making sense.

[squidprincess]

To be fair, he is really really pretty.  Maybe Katherine is just shallow?  

Though hopefully they'll show us more flashbacks to happier times.  It's hard to mourn a relationship if we don't know why it was good, once.

[HazelEyes4325]

4 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

To be fair, he is really really pretty.  Maybe Katherine is just shallow?  

Though hopefully they'll show us more flashbacks to happier times.  It's hard to mourn a relationship if we don't know why it was good, once.

1

No disagreements from me on that point but these two have been together for at least 7 years.  Pretty will only get you so far.

And my guess is that we aren't meant to mourn the relationship as much as we are supposed to cheer on its re-birth...which sounds really cheezy when I read it, but hopefully, you get my gist.

[HazelEyes4325]

In the media thread, @Anela posted:

Quote

They describe katherine's character as "used to be the fun one" in this link: https://deadline.com/2018/05/a-million-little-things-abc-drama-series-recast-anne-son-1202386968/

I forgot about that.  One on hand, it makes sense that Katherine was a party girl when she got together with Eddie, but what doesn't make sense is that it sounds like she was "part of the group" back then.  Granted, I could be reading too much into that.  

I do think they will have to go into the history of Katherine and Eddie's relationship and I hope they do it justice.  I'm far more interested in watching that than I am with any Eddie/Delilah crap.  However, that being said I would be okay with them working through how they got to where they are in their marriage and then deciding that it can't be salvaged.

[nexxie]

I asked on another thread when we’re going to find out that Jon was hooking up with the assistant who hid his goodbye note - but this might be a better place for that question.

Can’t recall the assistant’s name, but we see her carrying out Jon’s wishes. Delilah mentioned going through problems in her marriage and feeling forgotten - and, though the two women seem very friendly, I think there’s more to the story. 

[HazelEyes4325]

11 minutes ago, nexxie said:

I asked on another thread when we’re going to find out that Jon was hooking up with the assistant who hid his goodbye note - but this might be a better place for that question.

Can’t recall the assistant’s name, but we see her carrying out Jon’s wishes. Delilah mentioned going through problems in her marriage and feeling forgotten - and, though the two women seem very friendly, I think there’s more to the story. 

 

Ashley is the assistant.  I actually don't think it will come out that Jon and Ashley are having an affair, for three reasons:

1 - They seem to want us to believe that is the case, so I think it is a red herring

2 - Two affairs for one show (especially when the first one has not been well-received by viewers) is an awful lot..

3 - It seems clearer with each episode that Jon was up to some shady business practices that Ashley knew about (although I don't know if Jon knew she knew...)

As for that 3rd one, I think that will all come to a head with Regina's restaurant and I'm not sure that Jon got that property for her completely out of the goodness of his heart.

[nexxie]

17 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Ashley is the assistant.  I actually don't think it will come out that Jon and Ashley are having an affair, for three reasons:

1 - They seem to want us to believe that is the case, so I think it is a red herring

2 - Two affairs for one show (especially when the first one has not been well-received by viewers) is an awful lot..

3 - It seems clearer with each episode that Jon was up to some shady business practices that Ashley knew about (although I don't know if Jon knew she knew...)

As for that 3rd one, I think that will all come to a head with Regina's restaurant and I'm not sure that Jon got that property for her completely out of the goodness of his heart.

Good points!

It’s possible Jon expected Ashley to find the goodbye note and act on his instructions - or she could be protecting somebody, Jon, the others or herself.

[shapeshifter]

43 minutes ago, nexxie said:

  I actually don't think it will come out that Jon and Ashley are having an affair, for three reasons:

1 - They seem to want us to believe that is the case, so I think it is a red herring . . .

Is there a term for a red herring that seems to be revealed to be a red herring but later turns out to be true?
A blue herring?
A blue bird?

OTOH, maybe Ashley is not even interested that way in men.

[Anela]

1 hour ago, nexxie said:

I asked on another thread when we’re going to find out that Jon was hooking up with the assistant who hid his goodbye note - but this might be a better place for that question.

Can’t recall the assistant’s name, but we see her carrying out Jon’s wishes. Delilah mentioned going through problems in her marriage and feeling forgotten - and, though the two women seem very friendly, I think there’s more to the story. 

I think it's a red herring. It might be that he admitted something that she didn't want to get out. She was talking to someone, and saying that something was back on? Or did I mishear that? That, of course, could also be a red herring. I don't know if I'll speculate too much - I gave up on that with LOST. I'm a bit tired of shows with so many twists and turns, that you look back and wonder why TF they put a few things in there - and it's just to stretch out the episodes, usually.

[HazelEyes4325]

2 minutes ago, Anela said:

I think it's a red herring. It might be that he admitted something that she didn't want to get out. She was talking to someone, and saying that something was back on? Or did I mishear that? That, of course, could also be a red herring. I don't know if I'll speculate too much - I gave up on that with LOST. I'm a bit tired of shows with so many twists and turns, that you look back and wonder why TF they put a few things in there - and it's just to stretch out the episodes, usually.

She said the subway* was back on.  Earlier in the episode, Regina mentioned that she heard that they were about to approve the new subway stop near the restaurant, which tells me that the restaurant and whatever Jon was doing are tied together.

*IT'S THE "T" No self-respecting Bostonian would call it "the subway!"

Edited October 13, 2018 by HazelEyes4325

[Anela]

5 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

She said the subway* was back on.  Earlier in the episode, Regina mentioned that she heard that they were about to approve the new subway stop near the restaurant, which tells me that the restaurant and whatever Jon was doing are tied together.

*IT'S THE "T" No self-respecting Bostonian would call it "the subway!"

LOL, I will probably always remember that now. And thank you.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Ashley is the assistant.  I actually don't think it will come out that Jon and Ashley are having an affair, for three reasons:

1 - They seem to want us to believe that is the case, so I think it is a red herring

2 - Two affairs for one show (especially when the first one has not been well-received by viewers) is an awful lot..

3 - It seems clearer with each episode that Jon was up to some shady business practices that Ashley knew about (although I don't know if Jon knew she knew...)

As for that 3rd one, I think that will all come to a head with Regina's restaurant and I'm not sure that Jon got that property for her completely out of the goodness of his heart.

I agree. I think that it's financial issues, rather than an affair. Jon probably was into some shady business practices, whether fully by his own choice or coerced into it by the company, and Ashley is a major part of that, being his assistant and handling a lot of his transactions and business affairs. I think it's likely Jon knew that she knew, but maybe not. 

I do think that there's a chance that the restaurant that Regina bought is actually the only non-shady deal he made, as sort of a last gift to her without having it taken away. I'd like to think that Jon would try to make sure that Regina's restaurant wasn't taken away after his suicide in case his shady business deals got out. He took the time to buy the property before he killed himself, so I'd like to think that he thought of protecting it as well. 

[DearEvette]

I am not getting the vibe that  Jon and Ashley were involved.

I am getting the vibe that she was just his uber assistant who knew everything he did.

My theory is that 1) she is his complete ride or die.  He was up to some shady shit and she is deeply in the know and is now trying to cover it all up  after death.  This is why she read the letter and didn't give it to Delilah.  Jon must've confessed everything in the letter and there is something in the letter that implicates Jon and Ashey herself and she doesn't know how Delilah will take it.

 or 2) Ashely herself was up to some shady shit and Jon's death will uncover what she was doing.  So she is trying to cover her tracks and throw suspicion back on Jon.

Regards his reasons for killing himself, I wonder if the show/writers would just make it about depression a la Anthony Bourdain and not necessarily something shady.  Someone seemingly has everything to live for and has a great life but they are really sufferring.  I think the show already alluded a little to this with Rome trying to find a video that shows Jon not smiling.  It could be a case that this guy does all this altruistic stuff and is always smiling to hide an immense well of pain.

Edited October 14, 2018 by DearEvette

[HazelEyes4325]

36 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I do think that there's a chance that the restaurant that Regina bought is actually the only non-shady deal he made, as sort of a last gift to her without having it taken away. I'd like to think that Jon would try to make sure that Regina's restaurant wasn't taken away after his suicide in case his shady business deals got out. He took the time to buy the property before he killed himself, so I'd like to think that he thought of protecting it as well. 

 

Personally, I think he was using the restaurant to hide money (which is why he--I assume it was Jon and not Ashley--put Delilah's name on the lease).  However, I can also see a situation where the restaurant was completely on the up and up but it becomes collateral damage once his other business deals come to light.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

*IT'S THE "T" No self-respecting Bostonian would call it "the subway!"

Can I be an honorary Bostonian since I thought they were talking about a subway sandwich shop?

I hope they don't ultimately blame his suicide on one of the many medications that warns of the possible side effect of suicidal ideation. 

Edited October 14, 2018 by shapeshifter
Typo

[HazelEyes4325]

52 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Can I be an honorary Bostonian since I thought they were talking about a subway sandwich shop?

1

Wouldn't that be a twist...if Jon's downfall was due to a sandwich shop?  Ha ha!

52 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I hope they don't ultimately blame his suicide on one of the many medications that warns of the possible side effect of suicidal ideation. 

1

That would be...disappointing.  I have a feeling that his suicide will be because of his business deals and not depression because Rome already has the depression market cornered in this show.  

[doodlebug]

12 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I agree. I think that it's financial issues, rather than an affair. Jon probably was into some shady business practices, whether fully by his own choice or coerced into it by the company, and Ashley is a major part of that, being his assistant and handling a lot of his transactions and business affairs. I think it's likely Jon knew that she knew, but maybe not. 

I do think that there's a chance that the restaurant that Regina bought is actually the only non-shady deal he made, as sort of a last gift to her without having it taken away. I'd like to think that Jon would try to make sure that Regina's restaurant wasn't taken away after his suicide in case his shady business deals got out. He took the time to buy the property before he killed himself, so I'd like to think that he thought of protecting it as well. 

I agree, there’s some sort of shady business that Jon was involved in, that Ashley knew about, and that she grabbed his suicide note because she was afraid that he confessed to Delilah about it.  It’s also tied into the trust fund papers she retrieved and the mystery woman named in them who is probably played by Constance Zimmer.  I’d expect that it will turn out, that the making of the deal hurt a bunch of decent people and will turn out to be a big part of the suicide.

[shapeshifter]

18 hours ago, doodlebug said:

there’s some sort of shady business that Jon was involved in, that Ashley knew about

In the flashback to the moment of Jon's suicide, we see Ashley running towards him, seeming to be yelling, "No!" and then we see the note to Delilah.
Maybe Ashley yelling "No!" is supposed to signify something other than just her reaction to his jumping, like maybe she had just received an email or phone call that changed whatever was motivating Jon to kill himself—but she was too late to tell him.
Some things that would likely motivate him to kill himself:

• He had been caught (or framed/blackmailed for) doing something illegal and wanted to spare his family the expense and humiliation and misery of a trial, conviction, and his incarceration 
  —but Ashley just obtained proof of his innocence or news of the blackmailer's death, or . . .
• He received a terminal diagnosis and wanted to spare himself and his family the expense of medical procedures and his suffering 
  —but Ashley just got a message that it was the wrong diagnosis

—the note could also be a wild card that the writers still haven't decided on

 

[dargosmydaddy]

16 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

He received a terminal diagnosis and wanted to spare himself and his family the expense of medical procedures and his suffering 
—but Ashley just got a message that it was the wrong diagnosis

Hmm, if that was the case I can't think why she wouldn't tell people. I mean, it's awful to think of him killing himself over a mistake, but at least it's a reason, and not one that reflects badly on him (as opposed to if he were doing something illegal). And then they could blame (and sue) whoever gave the misdiagnosis.

Personally I hope Jon's reason (if it's ever revealed) and Ashley's reaction aren't anything too over-the-top soapy. I'd be OK with never knowing, as that would be realistic. But I do think they're leading up to some kind of twist or whatever, so I hope it's a decent/ believable one.

[HazelEyes4325]

I really think that Jon had to be having some sort of business/financial trouble.  Not only has the show given us every reason to think that, but right now this show is a handful of threads that aren't really tied together: We have Eddie/Delilah/Katherine, Gary and his cancer, Gary and Maggie, Maggie and her cancer, Rome's depression, Regina's restaurant, and whatever Ashley is up to.  At this point, they need something to start tying these things together.  Yes, it is seemingly obvious that it was financial issues, but I really don't need a twist here.  To invoke that other show, they tried to make a big mystery of how Jack died, but that really wasn't important.  What was important was that he was dead.

I don't want to see this show replaying all of the mistakes from TIU.  I think trying to play up the "why did Jon kill himself" line is starting to head in that territory.  In this case, knowing why he died could actually be relevant to the show, but not if they blow the mystery out of proportion.

[HazelEyes4325]

In the 1.3 thread, @smartymarty wrote:

Quote

With all his Super Suicide Pre-Planning, you'd think Jon would not have included himself in the hockey outing.

I think that is a hint that something else was happening.  The bit of the letter that we saw said things like "I tried to stop this," etc.  It could be that Jon got himself into so much trouble of some sort that he felt jumping was the only way to stop it *at that moment* and that he had set all these other things in motion, like Gary's birthday, thinking he'd be around to be a part of them.

I suppose an argument could be made that Jon was not depressed at all and this was "all business."  I really hope they don't try to pull that.

[TheLastKidPicked]

1 hour ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I suppose an argument could be made that Jon was not depressed at all and this was "all business."  I really hope they don't try to pull that.

I hope they don't go there, because it sends the message that if you have financial problems the best way to take care of your family is to kill yourself for the life insurance.  Or step in front of a well-insured bus.

But I don't think they will pull that.  The writers are being too careful to set Jon up as this big hero because he "planned for everybody. . .   Even me!"

I think they are actually placing him on that high pedestal to set him up for a fall (double meaning intended).

[HazelEyes4325]

In the 1.3 ep thread @smartymarty wrote:

Quote

Then he could have texted that to the whole group and then jumped. He wanted to talk to Eddie, but Eddie didn't pick up, so he just left the short message. (IRL he could have explained "I know about the affair, it's okay, love her." But this is a TV show, so the message had to be enigmatic.)

I see what you're saying, but it seems to me that it points more towards that he wanted to talk and maybe it didn't matter who.  Eddie was the most likely to pick up...he might also have been the most likely to think whatever Jon was going to say was some lighthearted thing and not think too much about it at the moment.  Gary or Rome, on the other hand, would probably be more likely to pick up on any subtext in whatever Jon was telling them but Eddie, well, Eddie is "brand new" (channeling a bit of Phoebe from Friends there...) and probably wouldn't have caught on that anything was amiss when Jon said something like, "Hey, I want you all to just love each other, okay?"

I admit that I could 100% wrong on this.  However, if it is going to come out that Jon knew about the affair, they are going to have to do some retconning in flashbacks for it to make sense.

[Sandman]

On 10/13/2018 at 5:03 PM, nexxie said:

It’s possible Jon expected Ashley to find the goodbye note and act on his instructions - or she could be protecting somebody, Jon, the others or herself.

My speculation is that what we've seen of Ashley's finding Jon will turn out to be an incomplete and inaccurate snapshot of the office balcony scene: they've flashed back to her running towards him, screaming a couple of times now, just often enough to make me suspicious. I think that will be the red herring. Ashley found the envelope addressed to Delilah and opened it. Why? She followed the instruction meant for Delilah to find the insurance documents hidden behind the picture in Jon's study, and she has yet to tell Delilah any of this, though Jon's note is the very thing Delilah is increasingly desperate to find. Why Ashley's continued silence? (The dry cleaning thing could just be sentimentality -- but I'm beginning to doubt it.)

Long story short, wild-ass theory: Ashley shoved him off that balcony in a screaming rage.

[nexxie]

2 hours ago, Sandman said:

My speculation is that what we've seen of Ashley's finding Jon will turn out to be an incomplete and inaccurate snapshot of the office balcony scene: they've flashed back to her running towards him, screaming a couple of times now, just often enough to make me suspicious. I think that will be the red herring. Ashley found the envelope addressed to Delilah and opened it. Why? She followed the instruction meant for Delilah to find the insurance documents hidden behind the picture in Jon's study, and she has yet to tell Delilah any of this, though Jon's note is the very thing Delilah is increasingly desperate to find. Why Ashley's continued silence? (The dry cleaning thing could just be sentimentality -- but I'm beginning to doubt it.)

Long story short, wild-ass theory: Ashley shoved him off that balcony in a screaming rage.

Wow, interesting - you may be right - that would certainly change it up!

[Sandman]

Note that most often my out-there theories prove to be utter hogwash, but still. The lovely Ashley just makes me think "Hmmm..."

On 10/16/2018 at 4:17 PM, TheLastKidPicked said:

I think they are actually placing him on that high pedestal to set him up for a fall (double meaning intended).

I think this is probable. "Friday Night Dinner" definitely hinted at some cracks in the "everybody loves Jon" picture of perfection.

[debraran]

They did show him telling his wife that "everything he does is for the family" when he takes another call at pizza night. I feel if it's not business, if the deleting of all those files by his assistant, weren't part of it, it doesn't make sense. I'm sure he had a good heart but many good people take wrong turns. I remember a neighbor of mine, worked for a big company, embezzled, got arrested  and said the very popular line "I did it for you, the kids" She left him and said, No you did it for you.  Things can just spiral, maybe having to face his friends and family was too much.

The phone calls to "love each other" was a bit like This is Us, but if he knew about the affair, and if seemed so, he knew the fallout also. Just stay close is good advice.

I hope it doesn't get like Jack and his death, it made me like TIU less and I never cared what appliance or plug started the fire, it was the people, it got away from the original premise and I hope this show stays on track.

Edited October 19, 2018 by debraran

[HazelEyes4325]

In the spoiler thread, @Lady Calypso wrote:

Quote

Yeah, Delilah being pregnant is the absolute worst. I never wanted her to be the leading female of this show. Plus, with her being pregnant, now there's a significant amount of additional empathy being forced on her from the viewers. Oh, poor Delilah is now pregnant and has to deal with the loss of her husband! Except...the baby is likely Eddie's and now she has an even more protective bubble around her in regards to her affair.

I have a guess as to how this is going to play out (hence this being speculation!).  Now, I definitely don't WANT this to happen, but I think this is what will happen.

Buckle your seatbelts for a hell of a lot of Delilah.  We are now into episodes that were filmed after the show aired.  Sometimes, when there seems to be sort of a negative consensus about a character or plot on these boards, I like to hop over to other places to see if it is a commonly-held feeling or "just us."  The Delilah hate, while not "universal," is definitely widespread.  Because of that, I think we are entering "Operation Redemption" for Delilah.  She is going to be the mother of the year, she is going to MOURN, and we will love hate her for it.  And, sadly, she will take over the show.

I'm basing this prediction on 2 things.

1 - I have actually seen TV before and this, unfortunately, happens all the time and it never works.

2 - I am not getting the impression that DJ Nash is the most competent showrunner.  We are 5 episodes in and there are basic mistakes happening that just shouldn't happen.  This show was supposed to be THE HIT of the season and it isn't and I think there is probably a fair amount of terrified scrambling behind the scenes.

Now, if they want to make Delilah more likable, putting her first and foremost is not the way to do it.  Instead, they should keep her in the background for a while until the audience "forgets" their first impression of her and then re-introduce her in a new way.  That's how it should go, but I'm positive it won't go that way.

[HazelEyes4325]

In the 1.5 thread, @debraran wrote:

Quote

 

I hate the pregnancy story line but I'm sure if the kids don't know, they will soon enough. DNA tests, chatter on the phone they overhear, whatever. Why did they do this, the writers, I don't know. She's in her 40's, if it not Jon's does she and Eddie get together? Ugh.

And is it just me, but why did a friend bring a pregnancy test to her friends house, to do? That struck me very odd and if it was only to give the curve ball later, PLEASE don't do the This is Us type stuff, just write well. You can write great scripts with tension and laughs and tears without the mystery element. 

 

This is my feeling of what is going on.  I don't think DJ Nash quite knows what he has gotten himself into with this show.  From what I understand, he's primarily a comedy writer, right? I know this show is supposed to be quite the departure for him. 

I think he had an incredible idea from his life (great) and thought, maybe, he could capitalize on the This is Us popularity for it (not great).  But I don't think he actually understands what writing a show such as this entails.  The good news, though, is that this show is (still) redeemable.  If I were in charge (evil giggle), this is how I would handle it.

1 - Figure out the Delilah situation.  They have 2 choices (and, trust me, the way it is going, they'll pick the 3rd choice): They can either be okay with her being an unlikable character or they can *effectively* make her more likable.  I don't think every character in every show, even a show like this one that doesn't have "villains," needs to be likable.  But it seems in the TV world, that you are supposed to love everyone and that is just not realistic.  Let Delilah be an annoying, needy manipulator and be okay with that and be okay with the audience not liking her.  It might actually make this a better show.  Of course, it still won't solve the performance issues, but it will help the story.

The other option (which they won't take) is to sideline Delilah.  I don't mean to take her out of the show completely (although that would be fine too..), but put her in the background for a while.  Let the audience "break up" with their initial reactions to her and then reintroduce her in a more positive way. 

But, I'll put my money on option #3, which I described in the post above.

2 - Cut back on the number of storylines.  I really think this show would do well with 3 major stories: the Rome story, the Gary story, and the Eddie story.  Get rid of this horrible pregnancy story--abortion, miscarriage, false positive, I don't care.  It's just too much.  Figure out Ashley's sneakiness and be done with it.  Just get back to the core of what this show is supposed to be about.

3 - Bring in a co-showrunner.  Nash has a story to tell and I think he should tell it, but I also think he needs someone to guide him and/or rein him in.  Right now he's kind of like the bull in the china shop and that needs to stop.  Have someone there to help Nash be more effective.

There you go, if it were up to me, that is what I would do...

[Lady Calypso]

If I had my way, this is what I'd do:

1. Get rid of the notion of Delilah/Eddie being endgame. That's what is holding the show back the most, I think. That, and not very many people seem to actually like the pairing. I know there are some who do, but I've seen mostly lukewarm comments on the two. Have both of them realize that they only took comfort in each other because it was easy, rather than them having deep feelings for each other. Have them agree that they really cannot get back together because their feelings weren't from a place of genuine love.
2. On that note, deal with the pregnancy respectfully. Have it be Jon's. Since I don't think they'd have Delilah lose the baby, the next best thing is have it genuinely be Jon's. I think if it's Eddie's, then Delilah loses the complete respect of her two children for a long, long time. Sophie will hate Delilah no matter what once the affair comes out, but with it being her dad's kid, there's less of a chance of Sophie and Danny feeling like they lost their father AND their mother, as it being Delilah and Eddie's baby ensures that Delilah's always choosing between Jon or Eddie, and with Jon dead, Eddie wins. Plus, it being Jon's has the show put Delilah/Eddie on the backburner and it would not take up the entire show like it had for the first four episodes.
3. I agree with embracing Delilah as an unlikable character. I don't think she's redeemable for me right now and with the path that I see they're heading down, it's better to let her embrace her major flaws and not make excuses for who she is, which is what the show is doing now. 
4. Yeah, cut back on storylines. There's a lot going on and too many tropes being thrown in. I wouldn't mind what they did in the fifth episode, with them focusing on two major plots (Gary/Maggie and Eddie/Katherine) with the other characters taking a backseat (Rome only got two or three small scenes, Delilah/Sophie also got about the same amount of scenes).
5. Figure out how to redeem Eddie. Right now, there's hope for him. Even if it's not getting back together with Katherine, I would welcome a storyline where the two figure out how to co-parent. 
6. Deal with the dying Maggie stuff sooner rather than later. I'd rather she stuck to her guns and die respectfully, with it being her choice, rather than the showrunner have her give in to Gary. 
7. Figure out what's going on with Rome/Regina, because they're not given nearly as much screentime as they deserve and I know next to nothing about Regina as a person. Also, keep them childless because I am pretty convinced that they could head down the road with Rome wanting to have kids now that he thought Regina was pregnant.
8. Hire more females on the staff, whether it's just for writing or producing or whatever. DJ Nash may have had some female writers, but he either needs better ones or he needs to have less control in the writer's room, as the dialogue reeks of male influence. 

[Guest]

Yes to sidelining Delilah. I don’t think she can be a likes character at this point, but maybe down the road. I realized hers is the only storyline I dislike, yet overall I haven’t enjoyed the show. I think it’s because her storyline has been so prominent. Let others take focus.

[HazelEyes4325]

@Lady Calypso I agree with all your points, but mostly #1.  Eddie and Delilah does.not.work.  I'm not even sure why it was even an option to do that unless they felt like they needed to tie one of the two characters into the show.  I don't think they need to do that for Eddie--the Eddie/Rome/Gary friendship is, and should be, front and center.  If it is Delilah they are trying to make relevant then, well, they shouldn't.

I also agree that this show needs some strong female writers.  I don't think the female characters need to be the center of this show because I accept the fact that this is ultimately a "bro" show, but the female characters do need to be complex and well written, which they aren't.  Even if this is a "bro" show, it's a bro show aimed at a female audience.

I do think that redeeming Eddie is actually a pretty straight-forward thing to do.  In fact, he probably has the easiest story to handle of the three guys.  He needs to grow up and that process can carry on through multiple seasons with the show.  However, tying him to Delilah effectively prevents any growth for him and, if the show wants to be successful, they need to realize that sooner rather than later.  We need to see him figure out things with Katherine--and I don't mean reconcile (whether they reconcile or not is not a big deal to me).  But, with Katherine, he is in a situation that requires him to be an adult--he has a child AND he has to be able to co-parent.  With Delilah, he's just a child she's stringing along and that is not something I want to watch.

[snarkylady]

Too many characters (and I'm note even including the children):

Jon -- committed suicide -- I'd like to know what led to him taking his life, he seems like one of the more interesting characters

Rome -- almost committed suicide

Gary -- cancer in remission

Eddie -- adulterer

Delilah -- adulterer

Regina

Maggie -- cancer not in remission or recurrent after initial remission

Katherine -- cheated on by spouse

Ashley --no info yet, but her behavior seems suspect

Interesting to me that I didn't know what to put for Regina.  This is a dark show, with two suicidal, two cancerous and two adulterers out of nine with the jury out on Ashley and not enough info for Regina.  They need to convince me why I should watch and so far it isn't all that compelling.  As I said in one thread I would watch for James Roday but that will only take me so far.  I agree with the people above who suggested narrowing the focus.  By delving deeper into individual characters perhaps it would be of greater interest and I could care a bit more. 

[HazelEyes4325]

@snarkylady I agree that there are too many "central" characters to this show.  Personally, I'd be happy if they kicked Delilah out but, as the widow of the departed best friend, I just don't see that happening (not because they can't, but because they won't).   However, I don't quite know what the point of Ashley is beyond the mystery envelope and cryptic phone calls.  Once that all comes out, why would she even be needed here?  I did see a crazy FB post about how someone thinks she's Jon's secret daughter.  Please, please, please let that idea stay in crazy-land...

I do wish they would do more with Regina.  Of course, I don't understand why Rome's story isn't front and center here.  I would think, if the set up is that a man commits suicide right as one of his best friend *attempts* suicide, it would be the whole basis of the show!

[Lady Calypso]

So, I suddenly got a thought about this whole Delilah/Eddie situation. Now, I don't know whether this is something that is actually plausible or the shitty acting and writing from Stephanie Szostack/the show is throwing me off....but along the lines of the theory about Eddie having deeper feelings than Delilah, I do wonder about her true intentions with Eddie.

She may have enjoyed the sex and may have enjoyed the company, but I wonder what would have happened if Jon was still alive and the beginning of the series with Eddie telling Delilah that he was leaving Katherine to be with her had still happened. In that moment, Delilah would have had no choice but to make a choice. With Jon's suicide, she got very, very lucky in not having to choose. I know that Delilah said that she was invisible in her marriage to Jon but she does seem to still love Jon, even through death.

It makes me wonder...would she have really chosen Eddie over Jon? With her not saying anything to the extent that Eddie has said about her, I can't help but wonder if MAYBE, just maybe, the breaking point for Eddie's sobriety is if Delilah tells him that she would have chosen Jon over him. I wonder if she miscarries and, in the heat of the moment through even more grief, she tells Eddie her true feelings. It would certainly be an interesting twist and if the showrunner has caught on to the fact that the affair of Delilah/Eddie is the least popular thing about this show, maybe he'd use it to his advantage to end it. 

I mean, this show will likely die with Eddie/Delilah still endgame, but one can wonder (and hope). 

[HazelEyes4325]

1 minute ago, Lady Calypso said:

It makes me wonder...would she have really chosen Eddie over Jon?

 

Nope.  Not a chance.  

The only thing Eddie has to offer Delilah is a roll in the hay (and, apparently, a baby).  Jon was the one who gave her a pretty nice lifestyle (and two children) and from everything we've seen, Jon loved Delilah.  Delilah even said back in 1.3 that if she could do it all over again with Jon, she would.

I'm sticking with my miscarriage speculation.  I'll admit it's probably more of a wish list thing, but I'm probably going to stick with it until we see that baby's crowning...which we may not if this show doesn't clean up its act.

[Lady Calypso]

33 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Nope.  Not a chance.  

The only thing Eddie has to offer Delilah is a roll in the hay (and, apparently, a baby).  Jon was the one who gave her a pretty nice lifestyle (and two children) and from everything we've seen, Jon loved Delilah.  Delilah even said back in 1.3 that if she could do it all over again with Jon, she would.

I'm sticking with my miscarriage speculation.  I'll admit it's probably more of a wish list thing, but I'm probably going to stick with it until we see that baby's crowning...which we may not if this show doesn't clean up its act.

I hope so, but I just don't know about this showrunner and his intentions. For all I know, this is just shitty writing and we're supposed to buy that Delilah is in love with Eddie. 

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I hope so, but I just don't know about this showrunner and his intentions. For all I know, this is just shitty writing and we're supposed to buy that Delilah is in love with Eddie. 

This is how I would play it from here on out (even though, if I were in charge, we would not even be in this position).  Delilah has a miscarriage and that's it for Eddie in her eyes.  Eddie can't cope with that, falls off the wagon, hits rock bottom, and then they can start redeeming him. 

Unfortunately, I think we're just at the beginning of Operation Redemption for Delilah and we will be seeing a lot of her from here on out...

[Dusty]

I'm taking a breather from watching the show but it's still wrapped around my brain at the moment like a harmless but inconvenient parasite and I just thought of something. Delilah is going to need a lawyer soon because of whatever shady stuff Jon was into. Probably a lawyer who knows about corporate law and finance stuff. Guess who seems to be that type of lawyer from what little we saw? Good ol' Katherine. How much do you want to bet that she's going to go to Katherine for help when all this comes out? While secretly being pregnant with her husband's baby.

[HazelEyes4325]

On 11/2/2018 at 5:32 PM, Dusty said:

I'm taking a breather from watching the show but it's still wrapped around my brain at the moment like a harmless but inconvenient parasite and I just thought of something. Delilah is going to need a lawyer soon because of whatever shady stuff Jon was into. Probably a lawyer who knows about corporate law and finance stuff. Guess who seems to be that type of lawyer from what little we saw? Good ol' Katherine. How much do you want to bet that she's going to go to Katherine for help when all this comes out? While secretly being pregnant with her husband's baby.

Possible, but my guess is that it will actually be the opposite.  Instead, Katherine is representing some entity that Jon shorted and goes after his estate.  

Since we don't really know:
1 - What kind of lawyer Katherine is

2 - What exactly Jon did

It is still pretty much a crapshoot, but I would put money on Katherine getting pulled into the clusterfuck somehow.

[Lady Calypso]

8 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

1 - What kind of lawyer Katherine is

From her part in episode 5 with her scene in court, it does sound like she could be a corporate lawyer. Just a snippet from the episode:

Quote

So, Mr. Andrews, am I to understand you were unaware that Huntington Properties misrepresented their second-quarter earnings? That's correct. You turned in your work laptop, exhibit 22. Mr. Andrews, did you delete any files on the hard drive before surrendering your laptop? Objection. Speculative. He'll answer. It's possible. So, it's possible you deleted financial records of a company prior to turning in a subpoenaed piece of evidence? Objection. Your Honor, can we have the rest of the day to identify any deleted files? - Counselor? - I'm good with that. 

Not the most well put together script since it doesn't differentiate who's talking, but this is Katherine arguing against a corporate business. Look at the similarities with her case and with Ashley's role in deleting files after Jon's death and possibly being involved in some shady business deals, Now, realistically, I'd think she wouldn't be able to represent Jon OR his company because she has a bias with being friends with him. But since this is TV, and since I don't know for sure if it's illegal or not allowed, and since they'll want to bring Katherine in somehow, I'm willing to bet all my money that she gets involved in the Jon scandal later in the season. The issue is that there's only 10 episodes left until the end of the season and nobody has found out about Jon or Ashley so....this storyline will need to be sped up. 

[HazelEyes4325]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

From her part in episode 5 with her scene in court, it does sound like she could be a corporate lawyer. Just a snippet from the episode:

Not the most well put together script since it doesn't differentiate who's talking, but this is Katherine arguing against a corporate business. Look at the similarities with her case and with Ashley's role in deleting files after Jon's death and possibly being involved in some shady business deals, Now, realistically, I'd think she wouldn't be able to represent Jon OR his company because she has a bias with being friends with him. But since this is TV, and since I don't know for sure if it's illegal or not allowed, and since they'll want to bring Katherine in somehow, I'm willing to bet all my money that she gets involved in the Jon scandal later in the season. The issue is that there's only 10 episodes left until the end of the season and nobody has found out about Jon or Ashley so....this storyline will need to be sped up. 

Yeah I'm sure she works in corporate law, but we don't know if she's with a private firm or if she's a prosecutor or what.  Honestly, I'm not too concerned about that (there are so many other things I'd rather learn about Katherine).  That being said, I am completely convinced that she'll get pulled into this Jon/Ashley/Delilah/Eddie mess soon enough,

[HazelEyes4325]

In the 1.6 thread, @debraran posted:

Quote

 

Article trying to give Ashley a break :

https://www.bustle.com/p/why-did-ashley-hide-jons-note-on-million-little-things-shes-acting-out-of-love-says-the-shows-creator-13026808?fbclid=IwAR0r7NMTbnEd7h2uX6OkuNtJWPmuzhFOeuhexsavIEuv_jNuFsCp96rmtww

I never thought affair but if she's his kid, that deception probably stumps Delilah's. ; )  Time will tell.

 

And @doodlebug posted:

Quote

Christina Ochoa, who plays Ashley, is 33 years old, Ron Livingston, who played Jon is 51.  There's no way Jon is any older that Ron, and, since they've established Delilah as 43, he might be younger.  Ashley doesn't look to be under 25; she looks around 30ish to me.  So, if she is going to be Jon's daughter, he would've had to have been in high school or college when she was conceived.  Or junior high if he and Delilah were the same age.  If she is his daughter, she would've been conceived long before he got involved with Delilah, so it would make no sense he would hide her.

I don't know if I buy the Ashley as Jon's daughter theory.  That seems just too out there for me.  I also don't think that they were having an affair, only because I can't see a show running the same storyline twice at the same time.  Now, it could be that Ashley was "in love" with Jon, even if that feeling wasn't reciprocated.  Or, it could be something more complex (and far less interesting for this subplot I already have little interest in) that there was some 3rd party involved.  Something along the lines that Jon did something to help someone close to Ashley and Ashley feels indebted to him.  Whatever it is, I'm sure they're going to drag it out as long as they can.

Edited November 4, 2018 by HazelEyes4325

[Dusty]

18 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Possible, but my guess is that it will actually be the opposite.  Instead, Katherine is representing some entity that Jon shorted and goes after his estate.  

It is still pretty much a crapshoot, but I would put money on Katherine getting pulled into the clusterfuck somehow.

Yeah, she's going to get pulled in but as much as I wouldn't want her to have to help Delilah I think it would be extra terrible if she's on the opposing side. For one, it seems like none of the people in the group are really her friends anyway so she'll be totally shitted on by Gary and co. if she does. Especially by Gary. Even though it's just her doing her job they'll probably twist it into her being vindictive about the affair/baby (if she knows) and tarnishing Jon's good name in her quest for revenge or whatever it is that they come up with so Delilah is the victim of Katherine and not Jon's. Katherine going to be in a no win situation for her no matter what.

[debraran]

11 hours ago, Dusty said:

Yeah, she's going to get pulled in but as much as I wouldn't want her to have to help Delilah I think it would be extra terrible if she's on the opposing side. For one, it seems like none of the people in the group are really her friends anyway so she'll be totally shitted on by Gary and co. if she does. Especially by Gary. Even though it's just her doing her job they'll probably twist it into her being vindictive about the affair/baby (if she knows) and tarnishing Jon's good name in her quest for revenge or whatever it is that they come up with so Delilah is the victim of Katherine and not Jon's. Katherine going to be in a no win situation for her no matter what.

I think she can excuse herself from a case where she knows the people involved. I can't see a judge saying that would be a fair trial. I couldn't serve on a jury when I knew the judge but not well.  A friend of my husband's was a lawyer and couldn't help him with a bad dog bite case because owner was friends wife.

I hope Katherine is more than Theo's mom and the spurned wife but they have so much going on, some characters get shorter shrift now.

Edited November 5, 2018 by debraran

[nexxie]

I’ve been hoping to see more of Grace Park, and it makes sense for Katherine to be involved through law - but, maybe cuz I loved her on Hawaii Five-0, I really want her to be a good guy!