S20.E01: Man Up/S20.E02: Man Down

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Here's the thing, in the current MeToo climate she's untouchable, I'm not sure the network would dare to cancel the show. 

It's 20 seasons in and the ratings are now fractional. The reasons for canceling would be valid, MH or no MH.

[wknt3]

15 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

It's 20 seasons in and the ratings are now fractional. The reasons for canceling would be valid, MH or no MH.

And so are the reasons for renewing (they definitely will make money from repeat airings, it's ratings are still better than much of what would replace it, the desire to atone for the mistake of cancelling the mothership a season too soon (which is why they renewed CI the last time even when the numbers didn't really justify it) using it to launch the Hate Crimes spinoff and keep the brand alive, and I would suspect a certain expectation for a bit of a bounce back for an announced final season with a lot of returning characters for a last hurrah.) Mariska is the key, but again it's mostly about numbers and dollars - their research suggests that the majority of the audience that has stuck with it is watching for her and the show is not financially viable without her. Everything else is a secondary consideration and even then is far more about money and practical concerns than image (it's another lever that may keep Mariska coming back without another raise or coming back at all, it drives most of the media attention and online buzz about an aging show that would otherwise be ignored, etc.) and it's a real mistake to assume that it's about anything other than money (even the real world reason they would bring it back knowing it will lose the network money is about making money in the long term. Dick Wolf has made NBCUniversal a buttload of money over the years and there is a value in keeping him happy by letting him break the record he wants so badly.)

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, wknt3 said:

And so are the reasons for renewing (they definitely will make money from repeat airings, it's ratings are still better than much of what would replace it, the desire to atone for the mistake of cancelling the mothership a season too soon (which is why they renewed CI the last time even when the numbers didn't really justify it) using it to launch the Hate Crimes spinoff and keep the brand alive, and I would suspect a certain expectation for a bit of a bounce back for an announced final season with a lot of returning characters for a last hurrah.) Mariska is the key, but again it's mostly about numbers and dollars - their research suggests that the majority of the audience that has stuck with it is watching for her and the show is not financially viable without her. Everything else is a secondary consideration and even then is far more about money and practical concerns than image (it's another lever that may keep Mariska coming back without another raise or coming back at all, it drives most of the media attention and online buzz about an aging show that would otherwise be ignored, etc.) and it's a real mistake to assume that it's about anything other than money (even the real world reason they would bring it back knowing it will lose the network money is about making money in the long term. Dick Wolf has made NBCUniversal a buttload of money over the years and there is a value in keeping him happy by letting him break the record he wants so badly.)

Oh, I get all that. I just don't think the show is "untouchable" because of #MeToo. Your reasons for renewing make complete sense. I'm just saying - should NBC want to end the show - they have valid reasons there, as well.

[wknt3]

59 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Oh, I get all that. I just don't think the show is "untouchable" because of #MeToo. Your reasons for renewing make complete sense. I'm just saying - should NBC want to end the show - they have valid reasons there, as well.

Yeah probably should have started off by saying I was agreeing with you. My bad! I think there are good reasons on both sides and wouldn't be surprised if NBC goes the Criminal Minds route and picks up a final shorter season. Whatever happens it won't be because of ideological concerns. That affects the content of individual episodes like this one and not the bigger decisions like renewal.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Yeah probably should have started off by saying I was agreeing with you. My bad! I think there are good reasons on both sides and wouldn't be surprised if NBC goes the Criminal Minds route and picks up a final shorter season. Whatever happens it won't be because of ideological concerns. That affects the content of individual episodes like this one and not the bigger decisions like renewal.

Well, whatever happens, ol' Dick is looking ahead. TV Line is reporting there is already a spinoff for FBI in the works.

[Fellaway]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Well, whatever happens, ol' Dick is looking ahead. TV Line is reporting there is already a spinoff for FBI in the works.

Geeze, you'd think they'd at least wait to see if the show has staying power before trying to franchise it.  Even the venerated L&O had its turkeys.

[illdoc]

In fact, the FBI forum on this site has been "vaulted" (that is, turned into a single thread topic).

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, illdoc said:

In fact, the FBI forum on this site has been "vaulted" (that is, turned into a single thread topic).

To be fair, though, forums are but a sliver of viewers. Not everyone that watches discusses or even goes online at all. CBS says it is their top new drama (which is not saying much, but then, no one's ratings are gangbusters now. Even the "hit shows" have ratings that, even 10 years ago, would be ripe for cancellation).

[King of TV]

I rewached the episode and I didn't care about the side plot with Benson and Rollins, it  should've been in an entirely different episode, I guess they tried to shoehorn that in to make sure they met the network's standard of a 44 minute slot .

I'm not conversative but good God the virtue signaling in this episode was out of control.  Especially with how they went to an unrealistic extreme with John's toxic masculinity. 

It was so obvious that John was the one who did the rape, since he softly said to his son "You'll learn", when he didn't want to kill the rabbit. I hated seeing the rabbit suffering too, I couldn't look at it without cringing, and the sound of it's neck cracking when John killed it made my skin crawl, at least that part was shown offscreen. Once they found the semen in Sam's underwear, it was a wrap. The evidence was too specific for it to be a coincidence, Sam's reactions to Fin questioning him about the rape should've already raised a red flag. Need I say more about that? Brian calling Sam a pussy was low hanging fruit to sidetrack the audience from knowing that John was the actual suspect, and when you pull too hard, you kind of make the clues more obvious leaving us with another reason why the episode was so predictable. 

Sam was stupid for pulling a Call of Duty black opps side mission on the school. I understand that his father raped him, but of course we pull a cliche and Dominick convinces Sam not to self-delete after he performed the school pow pow. Sam should've committed suicide anyway since he had a high chance of being in prison for life after he fired up the school. Let's just say for Sam's sake, he better hope that hell isn't a real thing, because being dead would've been a lot better than what's to come for him after he's in custody. Did it ever cross Sam's mind that if he shot up the school, what his father did to him is going to happen to him in prison as well. I get that people have impaired judgement during instances of extreme emotions, but I feel like he had enough time to think that through since it was somewhat premeditated and not fully instantaneous. Why would he also think his father "loves him", if he was raped....twice by him, why would Sonny's words be enough to sway Sam out of commit suicide? Seems like another way to make sure the episode clocks in standard time. If Sam did end up committing suicide they would've been able to pull that off with the episode length they had, even with the abortion side plots in tact and yes, I agree that this episode had everyone repeating the same things over and over. What was the point of Olivia knocking over that woman on the bike, it didn't further the plot, was that another piece of low hanging fruit to keep everyone in suspense. Ultimately, that small plot point ended up giving me apprehensive epididymal hypertension instead. Again, could've been another element to add into a completely different episode since that tidbit did nothing to further the plot. 

Sam should've gotten mentally evaluated since he drunk alcohol and snapped during all the interrogations, it's pretty clear that he has PTSD from John molesting him. Especially since this isn't the first time it happened. It was a second degree murder. I think a 25 year sentence would've been fair due to the unique circumstances, having a shit father isn't an excuse for what he did, there are plenty of people who had shit fathers that do the right thing and seek help, instead of shooting up a school. Sam's mental state at that point was perplexing, as much as I think it was dumb of him to do what he did, something still tells me he wasn't of sound mind when he did it, considering the snapping and the small hints of Stockholm syndrome that occurred earlier in the episode.

Overall thoughts, 4/10. Mediocre episode. Not suspenseful enough, the entire situation was too simplistic, and I get it was a Lawyer's job to plead the defendant's case, but c'mon, if it already too late when Sam snapped during the interrogations, it was already too late when John's semen was found in the underwear. We were better off not having this episode exist.