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S09.E07: You Say Goodbye, I Say Hello

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Dylan immediately drinking and no one batting a single eyelash = one of fifty sharks the show jumped, but for ME, the biggest. I think that was the moment as a sophomore in college, that I knew I just couldn't with this fucking show I had grown up with. How did they expect me to continue to be loyal when all the pre-teen emotional turmoil 12 year old me went through watching Dylan's alcoholism, that sad scene of him hugging his inner child after not giving in to drinking after Jack's funeral, the amazingness of him swigging wine straight from the bottle at Felice's fancy parter when he fell off the wagon--all of that rendered meaningless when they trot him back out in season 9 and decide he's not really an alcoholic anymore. As Sarah might say, EAT BEES, SHOW! 

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Kelly Being A Bitch about Valerie's letter to Brandon about calling off the wedding has never made sense to me.  Sure, I guess the writers wanted to contrive one last fight between these two, and sure, Kelly would latch on to any reason to Be A Bitch to Val.  But it's just so stupid.  Kelly had independently reached the same conclusion that Brandon and Valerie did - that it would be a mistake - and she and Brandon called off the wedding mutually, together.  And IIRC, Kelly was the one who shut the door on their relationship for good.  So she's mad that Valerie expressed an opinion that Kelly herself reached and acted on...why?

Anyway, SOB, bye Valerie!  The character really went through the ringer over the years, but Val was the scheming bad girl of my formative years and I'm going to miss her so.  See you when you sweep back into town and win the series finale, girl!

And ugh, Gina.  Like Tara said, it's not really Vanessa Marcil's fault, but she's such a bad photocopy of Val.  I had forgotten about this phone call with her Luanne-esque mother, which only drives the point home more.  Also, what guy that Donna liked could Gina have even gone after, I thought the story now was that there were no guys before David.

In other news, okay, Noah didn't kill that kid when he drove drunk.  But given he went to the police and said he could have, doesn't that mean he's in violation of the terms of his last drunk driving arrest/conviction?

Finally, Dylan.  I'm sure they hyped his return at the time, but still, why stick in his "Special Guest Star" title card before his "surprise" appearance at the end?  And oh boy, I can't wait until Tara and Sarah's confusion about his casual drinking turns to rage.  Fun!

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Kelly Being A Bitch about Valerie's letter to Brandon about calling off the wedding has never made sense to me.  Sure, I guess the writers wanted to contrive one last fight between these two, and sure, Kelly would latch on to any reason to Be A Bitch to Val.  But it's just so stupid.  Kelly had independently reached the same conclusion that Brandon and Valerie did - that it would be a mistake - and she and Brandon called off the wedding mutually, together.  And IIRC, Kelly was the one who shut the door on their relationship for good.  So she's mad that Valerie expressed an opinion that Kelly herself reached and acted on...why?

The whole thing was dumb.  It's not like Val was the reason the marriage didn't go forward.  The only good thing that I think came from it was Val realizing she doesn't need to be around these people. 

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I could have sworn that Denise's mom was the same mom as the gay homeless teenager at the car wash that David saved with darker hair but I guess its not

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Edited by RosieRose221

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I’ve considered many times to make a list of all the episodes that are named after Beatles songs. It enrages me because I feel the show is dragging the fab four in the dirt by keeping on doing it. 

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2 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Finally, Dylan.  I'm sure they hyped his return at the time, but still, why stick in his "Special Guest Star" title card before his "surprise" appearance at the end?  And oh boy, I can't wait until Tara and Sarah's confusion about his casual drinking turns to rage.  Fun!

If the only thing you had going on in your life was returning to Catbutt Mouth Kelly and the rest of the gang, wouldn't you start drinking again too?

Edited by benteen
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Back, back, before even myspace, in the age of friendster.com, Atlas Shrugged was hugely popular among people who hadn't read a book since college but wanted to pretend they had. It was right up there with Of Human Bondage on the "that book doesn't mean what you think it means" reading list. It was only when far-right conservatives rediscovered Ayn Rand a few years later that people realized they should stop pretending they had read it. 

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why do they drink champagne from cups? Get champagne glasses, idiots. Aren’t they supposed to be from rich and fancy families? Felice wouldn’t be caught dead drinking champagne like that!

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It’s hilarious that Luke Perry is “speciel guest star” from now till the end of the show. Whatever gets you through the night, Jones. 

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53 minutes ago, Nanna said:

It’s hilarious that Luke Perry is “speciel guest star” from now till the end of the show. Whatever gets you through the night, Jones. 

You are no Heather Locklear, Jones.

I do wonder if Brian Austin Green or Ian Ziering were like, "Heck yeah, with Jason gone, I'm the male lead!" only to get the news about Luke Perry's return.

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I know I'm standing alone here but I legit don't rewatch any eps from the time Luke leaves until he returns. I live for the moment he returns. THANK GOD. He is the only thing that makes the last 1.5 seasons watchable. The writers dropped the ball spectacularly and could have done far more with Kelly and Dylan in the final seasons had they gotten rid of silly lawyer Matt and Gina who no one cared about. At the end of the day, I'm always thrilled that K/D ended up together. I missed Brandon (always wanted him with Andrea), but I missed Val at the end far more than I ever missed Brenda.

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3 hours ago, Nanna said:

I’ve considered many times to make a list of all the episodes that are named after Beatles songs. It enrages me because I feel the show is dragging the fab four in the dirt by keeping on doing it. 

More proof that the writers for this "young adult" series were firmly in middle age when they wrote for it. Not The Beatles fault.

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I know we all know this, I know we don't care, but: now there is not even one single Walsh-adjacent person living at 953 Hillcrest Drive. The Malones were 'practically family,' at least. So now it's Steve and Noah? At least one of whom should still have some money except the writers clearly forgot these were the rich kids of Beverly Hills? WHY DO THE WALSHES KEEP PAYING THIS MORTGAGE/WHO IS PAYING RENT/BUILD A NEW FUCKING SET YOU CHEAPSKATES. 

 

(edited to finish because I hit enter too fast in my rage)

Edited by Molly Cule
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Ha, I have not thought about this in years, but my mom is the original Denise's mom. When I was 17, summer before I moved away to college, I was pretty sure I was very mature and was hanging out in bars with my fake ID and my very mature friends. We all looked 17. These were bars that were fine with it, though we were pretty sure we were pulling off the greatest scam of 1992. Anyhoo, I met a dude who was 23, and thought nothing of giving him my phone number so he could call me and ask me out on a date. So I of course lived with my parents, so it was our house phone- no such thing as my own phone, and none of us even knew we could get pagers, we were a naive bunch. I think I saw him a few times on the sly, but I never had sex with him, as I am not that kind of girl! But the poor bastard had the misfortune of calling the house when I was not home, and my mom answered. My mother is no fool, and could tell by the sound of his voice that he was an adult man and not a teenager. She laid into him immediately and told him I was 17. The difference is, he was not even as stupid as David, and told her he knew I was 17. So THEN she amped it up and let him know how disgusting he was for trying to "date" a teenager. When I got home, she told me all about it, and I didn't talk to her for the rest of the summer, but did not see the guy again. Now that I am a mother myself, I am grateful to her for stopping this in its tracks, and grateful that she didn't tell my dad, who would have chopped this guy's balls off.

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Dylan immediately drinking and no one batting a single eyelash = one of fifty sharks the show jumped, but for ME, the biggest. I think that was the moment as a sophomore in college, that I knew I just couldn't with this fucking show I had grown up with. How did they expect me to continue to be loyal when all the pre-teen emotional turmoil 12 year old me went through watching Dylan's alcoholism, that sad scene of him hugging his inner child after not giving in to drinking after Jack's funeral, the amazingness of him swigging wine straight from the bottle at Felice's fancy parter when he fell off the wagon--all of that rendered meaningless when they trot him back out in season 9 and decide he's not really an alcoholic anymore. As Sarah might say, EAT BEES, SHOW! 

Yes this!

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Jumping on to reveal that I know far too much about the cast's off-screen life, but at this point in the show Jennie Garth and Tiffani Thiessen were close friends, although they didn't get on when TAT first joined the show and are supposed to have had some sort of bust up in recent years. TAT was present at the birth of Jennie's eldest child and both she and Tori were bridesmaids at JG's wedding in 2001. The lack of emotion in TAT's final scene must just be rubbish acting!

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So -- before 90210, Daniel Cosgrove was on All My Children, which I watched at the time (he was like a third replacement Scott Chandler, for anybody who knows those characters.) ANYWAY... just before he started on that soap, somehow I was at a New Year's Eve party where he walked in, tux etc. You know how we just get used to TV shows being full of beautiful genetically gifted people -- well seeing this guy in real life (before I had ever seen him on TV) -- he was stunning. Like he was carrying his own followspot around somehow. Then a month later I saw him on AMC and was like "THAT WAS THAT GUY." AMC might have been his first major gig -- apparently he was working as a bailiff in upstate New York or something like that. He was okayish on the soap -- you can get by being a "personality" -- he wasn't great, but wasn't terrible. But obviously he's not able to rise above the dreck the 90210 writers room was churning out.

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  7 hours ago, TeslaNewton said:

Holy shit, Dylan looks so old!

Yeah, but he always has. He could still get it, though. Sorry. (Not sorry!) 

I watch Riverdale purely for Luke Perry. I will always be in love with him. He (circa 1992) is the template for what I find attractive. I was raised on 90210. Pity me if you like, but I wouldn't have it any other way!

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I’ve been listening to the podcast for years — and only once posted here — but now I’m motivated to contribute some unapologetic defensive posts about Dylan McKay and/or Luke Perry.

I have to respectfully disagree with Sara and Tara’s assertion that Luke Perry was phoning it in during this episode.  I think for the first few episodes after his return, he was motivated (unlike any of his co-stars).  I actually thought his appearance at the end of this episode was dashing and left us wanting to know more.  

Obviously there were some continuity issues and other things that made the last scene awkward:

- Dylan drinking again (even at Dylan’s bachelor party, Steve knew to serve his buddy iced tea).

- Presumably Dylan is expecting to see some Walshes in the Walsh house.  Sure, he knows Brenda is in London and he must be aware that Mama and Papa Walsh are in Hong Kong, but what about Brandon?  

- Not only are there no Walshes, but half the people in the house are people he doesn’t even know.  Janet, Noah (aka poor man’s Dylan), and Gina (poor man’s Valerie) are standing there like dipshits.  Couldn’t Noah go to bed and the other two leave early?  It would make sense to have Nat there (for once) since Nat and Dylan were pretty close.  

With that said, Dylan’s staredown with Kelly was tremendous.  Although Brandon was the closest with Dylan, I totally buy Steve, David, and Donna being psyched to see their friend from high school.  

As a fan of the show in general and Dylan in particular, I was so excited to find out what happened to this character since his wife died in front of him.  

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So much wasted opportunities.  I wish that instead of the stupid letter as the reason, Kelly was just being a bitch and that helped seal the deal for Val to leave.  David shouldn't have told anyone those secrets.  Val doesn't want Kelly's pity.   Though Val should have been smarter than to put her thoughts in writing.  What if they did get married?!

Never understood why Val couldn't have at least seen Dylan.  It would have been better to have them run into each other at the airport.  Dylan has been gone on these years- wouldn't he at least check into his hotel first? Or gone to the Peach Pit vs Brandon's house?

Gina- you may be a copy but that hair... so jelly.

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3 hours ago, profreader said:

So -- before 90210, Daniel Cosgrove was on All My Children, which I watched at the time (he was like a third replacement Scott Chandler, for anybody who knows those characters.) ANYWAY... just before he started on that soap, somehow I was at a New Year's Eve party where he walked in, tux etc. You know how we just get used to TV shows being full of beautiful genetically gifted people -- well seeing this guy in real life (before I had ever seen him on TV) -- he was stunning. Like he was carrying his own followspot around somehow. Then a month later I saw him on AMC and was like "THAT WAS THAT GUY." AMC might have been his first major gig -- apparently he was working as a bailiff in upstate New York or something like that. He was okayish on the soap -- you can get by being a "personality" -- he wasn't great, but wasn't terrible. But obviously he's not able to rise above the dreck the 90210 writers room was churning out.

I know I posted before but hubs went to HS with Jennie Garth (before she left to LA).  She was the new girl junior year I think and he said she practically glowed with beauty.  Within seconds it was like all the popular mean girls realized that they had to befriend this girl.  It was a huge deal when she dropped out and the drama teacher said she had zero talent.  LOL

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15 hours ago, MCMLXXVII said:

Not only does “going out” Denise look old, on first glance I’d swear it was Sheryl Lee or someone dressed in a Laura Palmer costume.

 

349AD3AE-D75D-4336-9B97-88FE9249D818.jpeg

I was actually thinking S1 Kelly:

Kelly-Taylor-beverly-hills-90210-7792571

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3 hours ago, helent said:

Isn't ice-skating a rich person's sport? Maybe Gina's family is only "poor" in te same way as the Walshes in S1.

That makes sense. They didn't bother to make her Tonya Hardingesque (in fact she looks like Nancy Kerrigan)or make mother sound as trashy as, say, Luanne, or whatever Ray's mother's name was. Trasherina von Meth, maybe.

Came here to clarify the light-up-the-bar situation. Unlike the unnecessarily elaborate speciality of the house served to Noah (one Flaming Idiot, coming up), the original was a trick pulled at a dive in the bowels of Hollywood called the Firefly. The Firefly's trick was to shut the doors, pour a line of brandy down the rail and light it up, necessitating some head-snatching-back among the sleepier denizens. The place was a hipster-barfly-shady character hangout in the late '80s-early'90s and I and my friends who worked at the Beverly Beat L.A. Weekly used to hang out there all the time, soaking in the atmosphere and gin. I actually got together with my husband of 25 years there on Halloween night, 1988. It was a great place to take New Yorkers who had spent all day bitching about how plastic and unreal Los Angeles was. You want real, motherfucker?

I can only imagine some writer had stumbled upon the place and stuck a bastardized version into the script, far too late for it to resonate among people who'd experienced the real thing, of per uzh.

Someone please enlighten me--why was Kelly a Bitch About It to Dylan? I honestly don't know.

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2 hours ago, Silly Angel said:

Someone please enlighten me--why was Kelly a Bitch About It to Dylan? I honestly don't know.

I have a few guesses... and they all revolve around Kelly.  I think that she probably was pissed that Dylan actually went back to Brenda (after all that soul mate wild west stuff) after Toni was murdered.  Then, my other guess is that Kelly would expect a special call-out from Dylan when he first set foot in LA vs Kelly being part of the general group that he saw.  Remember how she pitched a fit that Dylan was getting married and HER feelings about the announcement.  I think even he called her out on it. 

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Seriously Dylan and drinking. How does no one see this as an issue? How does Kelly not see it?

It is nice that Val gets a farewell scene and it is not with Kelly. That would have been awful. Instead probably with the only character who treated her the best. Kind of wished David went with her. Beats him marrying Donna. 

Did Dylan not call or like send an email? Who just shows up like that out of nowhere? Show makes no sense.

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11 minutes ago, SoupThrower said:

Seriously Dylan and drinking. How does no one see this as an issue? How does Kelly not see it?

It is nice that Val gets a farewell scene and it is not with Kelly. That would have been awful. Instead probably with the only character who treated her the best. Kind of wished David went with her. Beats him marrying Donna. 

Did Dylan not call or like send an email? Who just shows up like that out of nowhere? Show makes no sense.

Maybe his telegram hadn't show up yet since it was a holiday.

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33 minutes ago, SoupThrower said:

Seriously Dylan and drinking. How does no one see this as an issue? How does Kelly not see it?

It is nice that Val gets a farewell scene and it is not with Kelly. That would have been awful. Instead probably with the only character who treated her the best. Kind of wished David went with her. Beats him marrying Donna. 

Did Dylan not call or like send an email? Who just shows up like that out of nowhere? Show makes no sense.

It makes it even more hilarious when you remember that Steve, Kelly, David and Donna all attended an intervention for Dylan about his drinking at the WALSH HOUSE, you know, the place they are currently giving Dylan alcohol.

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27 minutes ago, SoupThrower said:

Did Dylan not call or like send an email? Who just shows up like that out of nowhere? Show makes no sense.

I think this is very in line with Dylan's character. He was probably only looking for Brandon though. 

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1 hour ago, ZeroDiscipline said:

I think this is very in line with Dylan's character. He was probably only looking for Brandon though. 

Back then, all these dopes would have driven to The Walsh House right?  Wouldn't Dylan be tipped off when he got out of the cab and saw all the cars? 

It really is too bad Val never slept with Bill Taylor.  

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Am I the only one who actually thought the tension between Dylan and Kelly was intriguing? Of course the writers will fuck it all up in the next few episodes but this was still a cool moment.

As a viewer, I had so many questions:
- How’s Dylan handling that whole dead wife thing?
- Is he still holding a candle for Kelly?
- Why is Dylan drinking again? (Okay, apparently I have more questions than his friends do.)
- How will Dylan cope without his surrogate family in L.A.?
- And how do we find out that Dylan has been apart from Brenda without making him looking an ass? (The show has a lot of flaws but I feel Dylan’s character was previously well-protected as to not make us hate him whenever he does something questionable.)

As to why Kelly was a being bitch, I thought she was conflicted:
- Even after Luke Perry left the show, she always made it known that she only ever truly loved two people (Brandon & Dylan). At the very least she still has strong feelings and unlike when Brandon left, Kelly didn’t really get any closure.
- When Brandon left town, Kelly felt some relief and freedom to move on with Matt. Now that Dylan is back, her newly cemented relationship with Matt isn’t going to be happening so smoothly.
- I (obviously) think Dylan was a great character but he was always troubled. So Kelly knows that with Dylan in town, even if everything is platonic, she will be worrying about him constantly.
- As we saw throughout season 5 and then again when he got married in season 6, she never totally got over Dylan.

Also looking forward to hearing Sarah and Tara lose their minds over the retcons we learn about in the next episode.

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I might be alone but I thought Dylan looked pretty slick when he showed up at the Walsh house.  And from what I remember so did a lot of girls in my dormitory when this aired in 1998.  

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So Dylan’s drinking was addressed later in the series and he simply replied he could handle it. He definitely had a problem with drugs. I hated that Val left but we got Gina. Of course Gina was no Val but she went out of her way to irritate Kelly and Donna and that amused me. Kelly is still a bitch about everything, Dylan returning, Matt’s job, and Gina. We know why she hated Gina. Once Gina started dating Dylan, Kelly started to hate her. Jennie Garth and Tiffani were getting along towards the end of the show, but when Vanessa Marcil came on board, Jennie hated her too. Vanessa also started dating Brian who she has a kid with. Vanessa has said in interviews that the girls on the show didn’t like her.

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5 hours ago, DylanFanboy said:

Not to be “that guy,” but that’s season 3 Kelly.

I searched quickly and trusted google. Should have learned by now...

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On 9/10/2018 at 5:29 PM, thesupremediva1 said:

I watch Riverdale purely for Luke Perry. I will always be in love with him. He (circa 1992) is the template for what I find attractive. I was raised on 90210. Pity me if you like, but I wouldn't have it any other way!

Is there room on the couch for me to join you? Because...same. 

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1 hour ago, sara416 said:
On 9/10/2018 at 3:29 PM, thesupremediva1 said:

 

Is there room on the couch for me to join you? Because...same. 

There is always room! I need someone to talk about the show with, as I watch 5 eps each Friday on Pop and then lose my mind in a vacuum of nostalgia. Luke Perry lovers, unite!

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  13 hours ago, sara416 said:
  On 9/10/2018 at 6:29 PM, thesupremediva1 said:

 

Is there room on the couch for me to join you? Because...same. 

There is always room! I need someone to talk about the show with, as I watch 5 eps each Friday on Pop and then lose my mind in a vacuum of nostalgia. Luke Perry lovers, unite!

i am in!! love Luke! I watch on Pop too!

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Matt did no lawerying in this episode, but I will snark on him being a bonehead by making out with Kelly.  She's been nothing but a bitch to you since Day One, but you cannot resist that catbutt mouth.  Further, the immediate tension between Kelly and Dylan was an huge red flag you should heeded and ran screaming in the opposite direction.

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I actually think Luke Perry looks pretty good here.  There is no way he is believable as a 24 year old though.  Of course, no on on this show is acting like a 24yo so, whatever...

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