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S05.E10: Week 6: Season Finale

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I caannn't with Joe and Kendell's conversation!? It was like a soap opera but reality! I was so heartbroken for Joe but the scene was beautiful at the same time (nice soundtrack abc). I found myself rewinding that scene over and over again (okay, blame that part on my slight OCD).

If they don't make Joe the next bachelor after the upcoming season, they will be losing A LOT of money. 

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20 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

good god, Chicago has to be crawling with eligible women.  It’s not like he lives in Weiner, AR.  

Weiner has at least one eligible woman crawling around.

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19 hours ago, jumper sage said:

Just to put Ken to bed forever:  Ken, of Barbie and Ken, is her gay friend.  Barbie dated GI Joe.  Ken had nothing and just mooched off her dream house, van and other accessories.  GI Joe had a government job with benefits and a pension and the coolest choppers and other vehicles.  I should know, Barbie lived in my basement Barbie village and GI Joe lived upstairs in my brother's play area and would copter down for dates.  Ken usually watched Midge or whoever and made snacks.

@JenE4 - You had me at Nicki/Cardi rumble!

The barbie in my basement always picked GI Joe, too. That beard...that scar...the full lips and those grasping hands that fit perfectly around Barbie's scrawny neck to pull her in for a kiss. Or around her scrawny arm to rescue her from the ravines she habitually fell into while horseback riding. My Ken had unflexible hips and had to ride Barbie's horses sidesaddle. Big turn-off. And at least GI Joe had those blue briefs so you could speculate about what he was packing underneath, while naked Ken was just blatantly devoid of any anatomy. I feel like I've been repressing these memories for a long time...

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I've got to say this... WHY WHY WHY does Robby always plaster that lock of hair all slicked down and super glued across his forehead just underneath that upward wave of hair. IT LOOKS SOOO STUPID! It is so distracting to look at, that's all I can see when I look at him and I hate it! Hey Robby if you read this, STOP IT! Please! It is the most unattractive hair style I've ever seen a man insist on wearing, and seems to be the only way this man can do his hair because it distracted me when he was on the bachlorette too. What a turn off! Terrible look. If he's trying to hide a scar or something, the scar would be preferable to look at than that STUPID PLASTERED lock of hair he insists on donning that you can see he takes great pains to make it stay like that.

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33 minutes ago, BiteTheLime said:

The barbie in my basement always picked GI Joe, too. That beard...that scar...the full lips and those grasping hands that fit perfectly around Barbie's scrawny neck to pull her in for a kiss. Or around her scrawny arm to rescue her from the ravines she habitually fell into while horseback riding. My Ken had unflexible hips and had to ride Barbie's horses sidesaddle. Big turn-off. And at least GI Joe had those blue briefs so you could speculate about what he was packing underneath, while naked Ken was just blatantly devoid of any anatomy. I feel like I've been repressing these memories for a long time...

YAY!!!!!!!!!

Want to go 1 on 1 with Suzy Homemaker?

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48 minutes ago, BiteTheLime said:

The barbie in my basement always picked GI Joe, too. That beard...that scar...the full lips and those grasping hands that fit perfectly around Barbie's scrawny neck to pull her in for a kiss. Or around her scrawny arm to rescue her from the ravines she habitually fell into while horseback riding. My Ken had unflexible hips and had to ride Barbie's horses sidesaddle. Big turn-off. And at least GI Joe had those blue briefs so you could speculate about what he was packing underneath, while naked Ken was just blatantly devoid of any anatomy. I feel like I've been repressing these memories for a long time...

I am probably showing some age here, but my brothers had Lone Ranger & Tonto figures which would have to stand in for Ken when my dog chewed his legs off. Lone Ranger was a little too short so he always looked like he was motorboating Barbie and his hair was plastered down like Jordans & Robbies.  

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Someone needs to tell these people (the women in particular) that they are not actresses.  Kendall's fake crying was embarrassing, you need to produce tears to pull that crap off.  Then we get Krystal and her "sexy" voice and way-too-over the top smiles for the rest of the show.  Did she think she was auditioning for Basic Instinct, the TV show or something?  Ughhhh.

I feel bad for Joe, I do.  But he should've known what kind of woman Kendall was when she dumped him for Leo the Magnificent.  He should've never taken her back.  I guess it's better to find out now, here, in Paradise that she will flitter off with anyone she finds "hunky" the moment they smile in her general direction.  He should move on and never look back with her.  She got a three week vacation for free by keeping him on the line, all in all, not a bad summer's work, I suppose.

Was there some back story to the Jordan/ Robbie thing?  Did Robbie steal his woman once?  Jordan seems like a nice guy (a little too in love with himself) but to worry that your girl is going to get swept up for the last two days of the show?  Seems to me he is no where near confident in this "relationship".  As an aside, he strikes me as a guy who wants an attractive woman by his side, just not as attractive as he is.  He also seems to desperately want the nuclear family.

Annaliese is annoyingly desperate.  That is all.

What's Annaliese's guy's name again?  Oops, forgot.  Anyway, he strikese as someone who also wants a woman who is nowhere as good looking as he is.  Annaliese was fun for a week or so in Paradise but that is not a long term relationship.  I'd be surprised.  

Kevin is a dope.  He should just commit to a lifelong realtionship with himself if he's going to breakdown when it's time to nut up.  Astrid handled that situation beautifully.  Seriously, if Kevin can't trust when a woman like Astrid, who has been honest and straightforward this whole time, says "I love you", he needs to not date.  

Edited by Destiny74
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22 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

I blame Jade and Tanner for all this *need* to get engaged B.S.

Actually, the two fakers before them -- Marcus and Lacey. Jade and Tanner and Carly and Evan made it work... but I think they are exceptions, not the rule. This whole go to the FS and have to get engaged...how about go to the FS and decide you want to try this in the real world. Nothing wrong with that. They would have had five successful couples this season if they went that route!

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4 hours ago, Mahamid Frauded Me said:

Poor Joe, if you are out there, the Piggly Wiggly by my house is hiring. I will totally let you bag me  my groceries.  Kendall, you are a moron. 

I'm pretty sure Joe OWNS a grocery store - and that his family is in the grocery business, so I guess they have a number of stores.   It's a lucrative business, I"m sure he's pretty financially secure.  so yeah, Kendall is a moron.  

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7 hours ago, Rainsong said:

Joe, I don’t offer advice very often, especially months after the fact when it’s pointless and you can’t hear me anyway, but you are committing a cardinal sin of joking about Very Serious Things like getting engaged.  It just isn’t the done thing even on reality TV.  Kendall sparks up at his flippancy and rightly so.  Joe attempts to transplant his cold feet onto Kendall’s ankles.  Kevin refers to ‘The way Kendall treated him.’  Huh?  Bro Code and all that but let’s not revise history (badly) here.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw it that way.  I'm no Kendall fan and if she really only liked him as a friend she shouldn't have been stretched out on him kissing him for the duration of the show -- but we'll never know how she might have reacted to an honest, serious proposal.  When he was rolling on the ground laughing while saying, "What if I proposed? hahaha," like a kid giggling and saying "What if I asked you for a date?"  I didn't know if he was ridiculing her, or laughing at the show's expectations, or trying to let her know he thought the whole thing was a joke.  I was not at all surprised when she looked shocked and walked away.  Everything she said to him the next day might have been a speech she made up to save face when she thought he was laughing at her.

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2 hours ago, phlebas said:

Weiner has at least one eligible woman crawling around.

Lol.  I like Tia and think she’s incredibly sexy and accomplished.

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23 hours ago, leighdear said:

The Fantasy Suites are just sanctioned sex.  Of course several of them have already done the deed, but in sandy, sweaty & salty discomfort.  And probably fewer crabs in the suites.  Maybe. 

Fewer crabs? Not after they leave.

 

Thank you, I’ll be here all week.

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On 9/10/2018 at 8:03 PM, dizzyd said:

Wtg Joe, just kick that dumb brat to the curb. That was the smartest most real thing I've seen on this show.

Joe was right about everything and saw right through Kendall's excuses. I liked when he said, "please quit saying we." It really did strike me as an honest, unscripted conversation, which is rare on this show. I think Kendall is a fool but it wasn't hard to predict this would happen. As soon as she accepted the date with Leo and blathered on about their "connection" I knew she wasn't really into Joe. 

Edited by Sweet-tea · Reason: Sorry to the posters who already mentioned the "we" thing
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3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw it that way.  I'm no Kendall fan and if she really only liked him as a friend she shouldn't have been stretched out on him kissing him for the duration of the show -- but we'll never know how she might have reacted to an honest, serious proposal.  When he was rolling on the ground laughing while saying, "What if I proposed? hahaha," like a kid giggling and saying "What if I asked you for a date?"  I didn't know if he was ridiculing her, or laughing at the show's expectations, or trying to let her know he thought the whole thing was a joke.  I was not at all surprised when she looked shocked and walked away.  Everything she said to him the next day might have been a speech she made up to save face when she thought he was laughing at her.

Ok.  I agree that if a couple have dated seriously, an engagement should not be a laughing matter to one and not the other.

However, these people have known each other for three drips.  Two couples have come out this show, two!  I would not get engaged to a man I met three weeks ago while on a secluded vacation on a Mexican beach run by an outfit that claims to try and find twwwwuee wuuuuv for people.  Especially if that outfit had such a lousy track record.

Do I like you, yeah.  Would I like to continue seeing you, yeah.  Would I like to try and see if this connection is valid in the real world with problems like work, friends, and family?  Sure.  Wanna get engaged under these circumstances?  Hell no.

I think getting engaged at the tail end of this experience is kinda laughable.  Call me a cynic.

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10 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Lol.  I like Tia and think she’s incredibly sexy and accomplished.

I'm actually fine with Tia too. But she would come off as a little desperate and shrill in a season where she wasn't standing next to Annaliese.

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7 hours ago, Destiny74 said:

I think getting engaged at the tail end of this experience is kinda laughable.  Call me a cynic.

I wasn't criticizing Joe for not proposing (although I can see my post sounded like it.) I was criticizing him for seeming to tease her about a proposal and laughing while he did it.  I couldn't tell  if he was laughing at the idea of proposing so soon or laughing at the idea of proposing to Kendall and I don't think she could tell either.

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1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I wasn't criticizing Joe for not proposing (although I can see my post sounded like it.) I was criticizing him for seeming to tease her about a proposal and laughing while he did it.  I couldn't tell  if he was laughing at the idea of proposing so soon or laughing at the idea of proposing to Kendall and I don't think she could tell either.

No, I totally get that.  And you're right, it is a valid point.  I guess I just think that ANYONE getting engaged or even remotely serious about getting engaged at the tail end of this experience is laughable.  Keeping dating, become exclusive, sure...but not engaged.

I feel Joe may have the same feelings I do.  However, Kendall may actually have thought an engagment should be coming.

Your point is valid.  Maybe Kendall should've talked with Joe about that specific incident if it offended/ hurt her that much.  I think he was clueless about why she went cold that night.

 

Finally, I am really sad that there are so many emotionally damaged people.  They carry these pains into other realtionship and pass that emotional damage on to others.  Seriously, it is really sad, heartbreaking.

Edited by Destiny74
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1 hour ago, Suzysite said:

It looked to me like he was laughing about proposing because he was halfway considering it.  I think he wanted to test her reaction without looking like a reject if she shot it down, which she did.

This. Plus, they just re-aired the encounter. Joe isn’t “rolling on the floor laughing” as someone else suggests. He mentions engagement then looks up with a big goofy grin. I’m not sure he laughs at all. Anyway, Kendall’s reaction isn’t as someone disgusted that her bf is making fun of marriage. She reacts like somebody who isn’t really into a guy but just found out the guy is really into her. 

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20 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Chad—and don’t forget his sidekick, Daniel. I would love that. Bring back Chris Bukowski, Kalon, Wes the “Love, it don’t come eeeeaaaaasssyyy” singing guy, the wrestler guy on Ali’s season who was There for the Wrong Reasons and hobbled through the garden in a cast to escape, the Trampoline park owner who eviscerated Ashley (as in JP and Ashley), Ed the alcoholic womanizer who broke Jillian’s heart, the guy who voted “keep” in Bachelor Pad, “Love and Protect Your Heart” Kasey, etc. And for the girls, Vienna, Courtney, Kelsey, Rosalyn (the one who ran off with a crew member)... Of course, most of these people are probably pushing 40 by now, which means they’d need to be pried out of the geriatric home—or just hold the show in an assisted living facility instead of in Paradise. But I would totally watch an old school villains redemption show. 

might as well bring back Corryn and Dario too!

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1 hour ago, Stan39 said:

This. Plus, they just re-aired the encounter. Joe isn’t “rolling on the floor laughing” as someone else suggests. He mentions engagement then looks up with a big goofy grin. I’m not sure he laughs at all. Anyway, Kendall’s reaction isn’t as someone disgusted that her bf is making fun of marriage. She reacts like somebody who isn’t really into a guy but just found out the guy is really into her. 

I assumed that their "fantasy suite" night involved some talking about the show's unrealistic expectation that couples get engaged at the end of the show.   Joe seemed to understand how easy it is to get swept up in the fantasy, and was trying to figure out if what they had was real. 

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7 minutes ago, BiteTheLime said:

Accomplished at what?? Making haggy faces and cussing like a sailor?

She’s a Physical Therapist who graduated Magna cum laude.  Beats the hell out of “former chicken”, or “social media loser”.

Unlike Kendall who needs a man to keep her safe, Tia is locked and loaded.  She can keep herself AND her man (once she snags one) safe.   

Tia can kick both out asses.  

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Well, I can imagine Tia with a shotgun but I don't see her as any "badder" than any of those other women when it comes to a fight.  I think Bibiana, for example, could kick her ass.  Good thing she's a physical therapist because then she could just work on herself.  

However, I could get with BIP/MMA.  Have the men and women in cage matches.

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2 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Well, I can imagine Tia with a shotgun but I don't see her as any "badder" than any of those other women when it comes to a fight.  I think Bibiana, for example, could kick her ass.

Her buddy Raven could labotomize her with a stiletto. I just see nothing badass about Tia. She's shrill and loud and she could have a dozen degrees and would still be low class, crass and presenting herself as dumb as a rock. 

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Lol! You guys just don’t appreciate the 2 Shames of the Ozarks.

but you have to admit both have hustle and more than just SM careers.  Most of these women have no job or bullshit jobs.  

Bibiana is all bluster.  Plus as the resident Duff, she has to play nice with the popular girls.  Lot of duff benefits if you play it right.

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On 9/10/2018 at 8:30 PM, leighdear said:

I liked Josh Murray's looks, I thought Chris Soules was so cute and I adored Arie.  They all suck for various reasons, but I love those faces!  *LOL*

To be fair, only one of them has murdered someone.

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On 9/10/2018 at 7:00 PM, saber5055 said:

OMG, I just saw TIA on the preview for tomorrow. Please, lightning strike me now.

When CH started assuring us that all of our "favorites" from this season would be returning to dish the show's dirt, I saw a shot of Tia yammering and I was momentarily shocked.

I had honestly forgotten she was on this season.

What a glorious few days that was.

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6 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

She’s a Physical Therapist who graduated Magna cum laude.  Beats the hell out of “former chicken”, or “social media loser”.

Come on now, be fair. That's "Ex Social Media Loser".

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So, ABC is pushing this idea that suicide is inspirational and therefore a positive for EVERYONE! Yay! Such a positive message!

 

Also, ABC wants us to believe that witches shouldn't be persecuted! They're pushing witchcraft!

 

Nothing sinister in ABC programming!

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2 hours ago, kelvins said:

So, ABC is pushing this idea that suicide is inspirational and therefore a positive for EVERYONE! Yay! Such a positive message

Seriously, I've always noticed that people become ten times more awesome the moment they die, but setting up someone who couldn't deal with his problems and killed himself as the fount of all wisdom is such a head scratcher. Another thing that seems to happen at the moment of death is the widow becomes, "stronger than everyone else put together."

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2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Seriously, I've always noticed that people become ten times more awesome the moment they die, but setting up someone who couldn't deal with his problems and killed himself as the fount of all wisdom is such a head scratcher. Another thing that seems to happen at the moment of death is the widow becomes, "stronger than everyone else put together."

And if we'd all just notice the color of each other's eyes - and how magnificent they are - we could prevent such tragedies.    Gag.

Edited by Suzysite
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3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Seriously, I've always noticed that people become ten times more awesome the moment they die, but setting up someone who couldn't deal with his problems and killed himself as the fount of all wisdom is such a head scratcher.

Well, he did find a way to avoid watching another season of Bach in Paradise so maybe he's on to something.

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On 9/12/2018 at 8:12 AM, Suzysite said:

It looked to me like he was laughing about proposing because he was halfway considering it.  I think he wanted to test her reaction without looking like a reject if she shot it down, which she did.

This is why I said a few episodes back that neither of them could communicate like adults.. I know, I know, I'm Captain Obvious right?  But if you need to test someone's reaction to a proposal, you aren't anywhere near the point where you should be proposing.  I like both Kendall and Joe (although Kendall was starting to annoy me towards the end) but they clearly just weren't ready for anything serious.  I think Joe got swept up into the producer's urging to take it to a proposal, and Kendall understandably didn't know if he was being serious or not because he said it while laughing and in a joking manner.  I can see how she was taken aback when after weeks of light hearted fun, with no real expression of feelings, he angrily proclaims she should have known how he was feeling.. maybe not in those exact words, but it was something along the lines of Kendall:  "i don't know how you feel" Joe: "how could you not".. um, because you waited until the last day to mention it?

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While I can understand Kendall being surprised at Joe's proposal, not knowing if he was serious or not, it was her reaction that annoyed me.  She could have just asked, "Joe, are you serious?  Let's talk about this." in a non-confrontational way, instead of acting like he said something wrong.  I can see why he got angry and frustrated because she had to know that he was really interested in her since he never showed any interest in the other women.  

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Well to be fair.. she did say "joe you aren't serious, i can tell by your smile, you're messing with me" to which he replied "you never know" while continuing to smile. I mean I get the happy go lucky, coy routine and that can also be from fear or shyness.  But you're talking about proposing marriage.. maybe you should sit up and say "ok but for real, let's have a serious talk about this".  

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51 minutes ago, GracieK said:

I can see how she was taken aback when after weeks of light hearted fun, with no real expression of feelings, he angrily proclaims she should have known how he was feeling.. maybe not in those exact words, but it was something along the lines of Kendall:  "i don't know how you feel" Joe: "how could you not".. um, because you waited until the last day to mention it?

 

13 minutes ago, GracieK said:

Well to be fair.. she did say "joe you aren't serious, i can tell by your smile, you're messing with me" to which he replied "you never know" while continuing to smile. I mean I get the happy go lucky, coy routine and that can also be from fear or shyness.  But you're talking about proposing marriage.. maybe you should sit up and say "ok but for real, let's have a serious talk about this".  

To be fair, we don't know that they DIDN'T have a serious conversation about marriage.  We only know that we didn't observe them doing so.  

Didn't they just have their "fantasy suite" night?  I assume that's the perfect opportunity for serious conversations about the future. 

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1 minute ago, backformore said:

 

To be fair, we don't know that they DIDN'T have a serious conversation about marriage.  We only know that we didn't observe them doing so.  

Didn't they just have their "fantasy suite" night?  I assume that's the perfect opportunity for serious conversations about the future. 

Well I can only comment on what is shown. I agree we don't know what the editors choose to leave out, so my comments are about how it played out to the viewers.

They didn't go to the fantasy suite.  They broke up before the fantasy suite.

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7 minutes ago, GracieK said:

They didn't go to the fantasy suite.  They broke up before the fantasy suite.

Ok, thanks for the correction.  I do think they talked about their feelings for each other, though.  And, yeah, I totally would have been joking along with Joe about the craziness of a proposal after such a short time together.  

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2 minutes ago, backformore said:

Ok, thanks for the correction.  I do think they talked about their feelings for each other, though.  And, yeah, I totally would have been joking along with Joe about the craziness of a proposal after such a short time together.  

Oh yeah I would joke about it being crazy as well.  I get why they were both laughing about it.  But if Joe was really serious, and I don't know if he truly was about that part, he wasn't expressing it from what we were shown.  They both admitted they are commitment-phobes, so I think he was laughing about it due to his fears, and she freaked out and walked away over hers.  It was kind of a recipe for disaster between two people not acting mature enough for a mature topic.  I do think Joe was in the right when he pointed out that she should speak for herself and not project her feelings onto him or use "we", as she should speak for herself and let him do the same. 

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13 minutes ago, backformore said:

 

To be fair, we don't know that they DIDN'T have a serious conversation about marriage.  We only know that we didn't observe them doing so.  

Didn't they just have their "fantasy suite" night?  I assume that's the perfect opportunity for serious conversations about the future. 

This. Everyone giving Kendall a pass because Joe was “just kidding about proposing” is missing the forest for the trees. Kendall didn’t react like she was offended he wasn’t being serious. Kendall reacted like he WAS being serious and she wasn’t ready for any type of commitment. “Oh, but Joe never communicated he was serious until just that moment so it’s unfair for Kendall to be blindsided like that!” Kendall and Joe have been on the show since Day 1. He’s turned down dates to be with her and expressed how upset he’d be if she dumped him for Leo. Leo!!!! Don’t forget Kendall’s moronic attraction to THAT guy. I’m sure Joe, at some point, mentioned continuing the relationship outside of paradise in the two weeks they were together, it’s just they can’t show everything and that stuff tends to be boring. I think people defending Kendall need to step back and look at the big picture. Look at her actions the whole season, maybe not just in that moment, to see why Joe is frustrated and upset. He just seems like her backup plan to ensure she stays on TV when other guys fall through. She basically friend-zoned the guy. 

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Didn't kendall kiss TWO other guys besides Joe, after being with Joe?   I can't recall everyone who came in.  But I thought Joe liked Kendall right away and never changed his mind, while Kendall continued to "play the field" with someone else, and then with Leo.   While Joe waited for her to come to her senses and return to him.    I think at the end he felt he was being played by someone who was settling for him, constantly looking to see if someone "better"  was going to enter the scene.  

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4 minutes ago, Stan39 said:

This. Everyone giving Kendall a pass because Joe was “just kidding about proposing” is missing the forest for the trees. Kendall didn’t react like she was offended he wasn’t being serious. Kendall reacted like he WAS being serious and she wasn’t ready for any type of commitment. “Oh, but Joe never communicated he was serious until just that moment so it’s unfair for Kendall to be blindsided like that!” Kendall and Joe have been on the show since Day 1. He’s turned down dates to be with her and expressed how upset he’d be if she dumped him for Leo. Leo!!!! Don’t forget Kendall’s moronic attraction to THAT guy. I’m sure Joe, at some point, mentioned continuing the relationship outside of paradise in the two weeks they were together, it’s just they can’t show everything and that stuff tends to be boring. I think people defending Kendall need to step back and look at the big picture. Look at her actions the whole season, maybe not just in that moment, to see why Joe is frustrated and upset. He just seems like her backup plan to ensure she stays on TV when other guys fall through. She basically friend-zoned the guy. 

I'm not giving either of them a pass.  I think they are both immature.  Frankly, I think it's giving Joe a bit of a pass by expecting Kendall to read his mind because he didn't go out with any other girls.  Guys don't like it when we women expect you to read our minds, so it should go go both ways.  If they did discuss dating outside of Paradise, that is completely different than now saying you might propose while grinning and in a non-serious manner.  Why can't these people just speak to each other like adults??  They are all emotionally stunted and immature like a bunch of high school kids still testing the waters of the opposite sex.

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6 minutes ago, Stan39 said:

Kendall and Joe have been on the show since Day 1. He’s turned down dates to be with her and expressed how upset he’d be if she dumped him for Leo. Leo!!!! Don’t forget Kendall’s moronic attraction to THAT guy. I’m sure Joe, at some point, mentioned continuing the relationship outside of paradise in the two weeks they were together, it’s just they can’t show everything and that stuff tends to be boring. I think people defending Kendall need to step back and look at the big picture. Look at her actions the whole season, maybe not just in that moment, to see why Joe is frustrated and upset. He just seems like her backup plan to ensure she stays on TV when other guys fall through. She basically friend-zoned the guy. 

That goes both ways. If we are to assume Joe told her all about his deep feelings, we must also assume she told him she wasn't feeling it either, as evidenced by her running after other guys. If Kendall wasn't listening to Joe, Joe wasn't listening to Kendall either. I think it was quite clear she wasn't ready for commitment with him so his proposing with or without a laugh probably stunned her. She was probably thinking "oh shit, didn't he get the memo that I'm not ready for that.

Or....perhaps Joe and Kendall both decided to play the game, act like they had some drama in their relationship to get screentime, pretended to break up. Then got back together just in time for his next TV gig.

We can play "what happened when the camera's weren't rolling" forever. His fans will say he said and did all the right things and she wasn't listening, her fans will say she said and did all the right things and he wasn't listening. What we saw on the show was a guy who seemed more into the girl than she was into him who then proposed to the girl who wasn't all that into him for...reasons that are likely so he would get more time on tv so he could get another gig on tv, which he got. So I guess it worked. And they are together, so guess that worked too.

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1 minute ago, backformore said:

Didn't kendall kiss TWO other guys besides Joe, after being with Joe?   I can't recall everyone who came in.  But I thought Joe liked Kendall right away and never changed his mind, while Kendall continued to "play the field" with someone else, and then with Leo.   While Joe waited for her to come to her senses and return to him.    I think at the end he felt he was being played by someone who was settling for him, constantly looking to see if someone "better"  was going to enter the scene.  

She did.. she kissed both Leo and Venmo.  She told him about both instances.  I think she was an asshole for kissing both those dudes, but Joe knew, so I don't consider that being played unless behind the scenes she was professing monogamous love for him.

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15 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

What we saw on the show was a guy who seemed more into the girl than she was into him who then proposed to the girl who wasn't all that into him for...reasons that are likely so he would get more time on tv so he could get another gig on tv, which he got. So I guess it worked. And they are together, so guess that worked too.

But he didn't propose. 

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1 hour ago, GracieK said:

I'm not giving either of them a pass.  I think they are both immature.  Frankly, I think it's giving Joe a bit of a pass by expecting Kendall to read his mind because he didn't go out with any other girls.  Guys don't like it when we women expect you to read our minds, so it should go go both ways.  If they did discuss dating outside of Paradise, that is completely different than now saying you might propose while grinning and in a non-serious manner.  Why can't these people just speak to each other like adults??  They are all emotionally stunted and immature like a bunch of high school kids still testing the waters of the opposite sex.

I agree with you. Now, it’s quite likely I blocked out some scenes or didn’t pick up on key emotions amongst the group—like all of the characters on A Million Little Things,  lol. But while I recall Joe commiserating with Jordan and the Goose, I seem to recall him “playing it cool” with Kendall. “ Oh, you want to go out with Leo? [Shrug, smile] Okay, cool.” Then goes running to cry to the Gander. “Oh, you kissed John? [pulls his fallen face into his smile and shrug] Okay, whatever.” 

Actually, Joe and Jenna had a lot in common with their constant and sometimes inappropriate smiling. You can tell Jenna is a flirt by profession. Literally. Here we all are sitting around with our Resting Bitch Faces, and she “knows her angles” as Jordan would say and whenever is around a guy (Jordan, Benoit, etc.) will just sit there with this open-mouthed smile and tilted head. Granted, it’s a thing of beauty that she knows how to hold her face just so to have this sexy ingenue thing going. But who just SITS like that with a gaping smile while listening to someone talk about some monotonous thing? Oh, a professional sugar baby, that’s who. Joe has a similar thing going on with that constant smile and shrug no matter what anyone is saying. It’s like they’re both defense mechanisms. I don’t know, maybe it’s because I’m just not charming myself, lol, but it seems suspect. Stop being so cute with those practiced smiles!! Lol.

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2 hours ago, GracieK said:

I'm not giving either of them a pass.  I think they are both immature.  Frankly, I think it's giving Joe a bit of a pass by expecting Kendall to read his mind because he didn't go out with any other girls.  Guys don't like it when we women expect you to read our minds, so it should go go both ways.  If they did discuss dating outside of Paradise, that is completely different than now saying you might propose while grinning and in a non-serious manner.  Why can't these people just speak to each other like adults??  They are all emotionally stunted and immature like a bunch of high school kids still testing the waters of the opposite sex.

I think we should agree to disagree and move on. We’re looking at the show from two different perspectives and probably at an impasse. Nbd. This show isn’t worth this much effort. 

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