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S02.E07: Truth or Lie

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18 hours ago, Mothra said:

So many posters here--this is not personal--keep saying that Kreeny's parents were in favor of this marriage, and I just don't see it.  What I saw was parents who were suspicious in the first place of Pole because he would make the trip to the backside of Brazil and show up with six lockers full of protective gear, who would "ask for their daughter's hand" by making the universal "fuck" sign (poking his forefinger through the OK sign on his other hand), unable to speak or understand their language, run away when he got upset--literally *run away*--leaving their daughter to the depredations of a robber, make their daughter take all kinds of medical tests, keep their daughter upset and in tears, who were told by their daughter that Pole was verbally abusive to her when they were alone--the father agreed to allow his daughter to marry Pole only after Kreeny whined and begged (because Kreeny does want to go to the US) (as if he could have prevented the marriage anyway) and a mother who can't talk about the marriage without crying, who told her daughter *as the daughter was having a breakdown about whether to go ahead with the wedding or not* she could come back home--these are not parents who "supported the marriage."

 I saw Paul's obscene gesture not as the universal F*ck sign, but as putting a ring on a finger. 

I feel like Karine's parents support this marriage because they see Paul as a "way out" for their daughter.  Desperate times call for desperate measures.

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1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

Please note my screen name, intentionally chosen as an homage to my religious preference.

Having said that, there's not a Sunday night that goes by that I don't look at Mr. AZC and say, "We're probably going to go to hell just for watching this mess."

You’ll have a lot of great company down there, if that’s the case!!

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i wonder if these open relationships Jon   was a part of were just relationships he had with married women who were cheating on their spouse, or were they truly open relationships in which the women’s spouses knew and were okay with them having sex with Jon and also had relationships outside the marriage. 

Looking at Jon and listening to him talk, I just do not see someone so attractive or interesting that all these women would be so taken by him. I think he’s probably had his share of one night stands, but I don’t think he’s had more than a couple of what we would consider “relationships”. 

I see Rachel’s concern about his being okay with “open” relationships as fear that he will  stray during the time she is in the US. She is aware that there’s  good chance they will be separated for stretches of time and she doesn’t want to have to worry about his fidelity during that period. 

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22 hours ago, crabbygrrl said:

Final thought:  I am so tired of hearing in all of the 90 day series about how generous, open hearted, family oriented, caring people the non-Americans are.  It's a put down and it's abused and I don't like it.  You want to send laptops and huge screen TVs to your (lawyer) mom or let your family eat all the food in your house and then act like Americans are just tightfisted jerks. I've dealt with this accusation myself and it infuriates me.

 

I agree.  My husband is first generation and his family is far from caring and family oriented, unless it’s their nuclear family.   My parents have embraced my husband and treated him like a son.  My inlaws have pretty let all the spouses of their children know they don’t matter.  They like to think they are all tight but all of them would slit each other’s throats for a nickel.   Yeah, so, I don’t buy it.  

These people who look for love overseas do it because they can’t find it here.  In most cases it’s because they are incapable of having a real relationship with another.  They are looking for adoration and having the upper hand.  They want to control, not love.  

Its apparent to me that most of these foreigners are trolling many Americans at once, hoping one will bite.  Not every American is as desperate as these fools, spending $$$ to meet the love of their life, only after meeting them online two weeks prior.   So when one takes the bait, the foreigners, for the most part, will jump on the chance coming to  America.  

Note to Tarik:  if Hazel is as religious as she claims to be, she isn’t having sex with you until you are married.   Of course, I don’t believe she is that religious.   She just can’t stand you.  

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3 hours ago, LocalGovt said:

 I saw Paul's obscene gesture not as the universal F*ck sign, but as putting a ring on a finger. 

I feel like Karine's parents support this marriage because they see Paul as a "way out" for their daughter.  Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Absolutely that's how he meant it.  But look at Kreeny's father's face.  That's not how it came across.  Remember, this was after Pole begged for Kreeny to be able to stay with him at a hotel, swearing he would defend her honor and not fuck her.  Dad must've been really confused about Pole's intentions!

I'm not sure Kreeny's parents see her life with Pole as a good thing.  She has told them that he is mean to her when they are alone, that he treats her badly.  I have not seen warm "welcome to the family" embraces from the parents.  Feelings are one thing, but I'd like to see some evidence that the parents are in favor of this marriage.  Everything I've seen so far indicates the opposite.

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On 9/21/2018 at 11:53 AM, gonecrackers said:
On 9/21/2018 at 9:07 AM, iwasish said:

 

Next week it looks like Tarek is upset because they haven't had sex therefore he has no proof of her love.

He needs proof of her love and they've only known each other like three weeks.   This guy is a straight-up skeeze, isn't he.   Also, Tarik, aren't muscle shirts for guys with muscles?

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Re the open relationship thing. I get what Jon was saying. Some of his married FWBs were involved in open relationships. It can be assumed that their husbands or boyfriends knew and consented or were down with it. Open relationships or any form of ethical non-monogamy involve honesty and not messing around behind someone's back.

I can speak from experience. I'm an ethical non-monogamist or poly, as I have a husband and a girlfriend of just about the same amount of time. I despise labels and refuse to call it a lifestyle choice. Obviously, everyone's in the loop because she lives on the estate in her own wing, and she's not my dirty little secret. Kiddos are fully aware of who she is. My parents consider her their daughter-in-law. It has been a well oiled machine for almost two decades. I grew up in a religious household, went to parochial schools, always have been devout in my faith, and I still found myself in love with two people. I struggled with it, have lost "friends"/family behind it, etc. Whatever. I raise my glass of wine and eat my Rice-a-Roni and steak cut on the bias. Cheers and suck it.

Poly or any ethical non-monogamy isn't everyone's cup of tea, but Rachel came off kind of judging him and making a big to do about nothing honestly. Yes, there are some people who absolutely feel smothered in a monogamous relationship and can't be with just one person. There are some people who are OK with their partners dating others, and they are happy to only be with the one person. Reality is, some people ebb and flow where their lovestyle is concerned. If my marriage or relationship ended, I wouldn't seek a second partner. I'd be hunky dory with a monogamous situation. It really isn't Rachel's business what he did before she met him. He wasn't being a homewrecker, acting like Mr. Steal Ya Girl, or tearing apart relationships. It sounded like something he found himself in, but it isn't a need or even a want. He didn't say he wanted their relationship to be open or anything along those lines. She was concerned for nothing.

Edited by AussieBabe
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On 9/22/2018 at 10:27 AM, Dobian said:

If you mess around with a married person then you are as guilty as they are lol.  You can rationalize all you want about what the law says or the Bible says, morally you are in the same boat they are.  You did a bad thing, doesn't matter if you want to put the blinders on and not own up to it.  It takes two to tango.

Absolutely.  I can't go along with the attitude of, "well, I'm single; what a married person does [including sleeping with me] is nothing I'm responsible for."

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6 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Please note my screen name, intentionally chosen as an homage to my religious preference.

Having said that, there's not a Sunday night that goes by that I don't look at Mr. AZC and say, "We're probably going to go to hell just for watching this mess."

Actually, I was kind of thinking about you when I wrote that post.  But if we don't expose ourselves to sin, how will we recognize it so we can avoid it?  <--that's a really feeble excuse I've heard from religious people to excuse their addiction to shows like this.

I am not a believer, but I do wonder why I choose to watch (and enjoy!!!) the spectacle of these folks doing things they shouldn't be doing--and they shouldn't be doing them for reasons far beyond whatever their (and our) religious beliefs.  Their reckless, selfish behavior is immoral imo based solely on my own beliefs about how we should treat each other in this world.  And if everyone in the world behaved like this, what a mess we'd be in.  Yet I watch.  And I look forward to Sunday nights so I can watch more.  Worst of all, I don't feel guilty about it!

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On 9/22/2018 at 1:27 PM, crabbygrrl said:

They know exactly what they are doing, you only have to look at the seductive poses they post. 

Yup. I look at those poses and think, I guess you have to be a man not to see what she's selling - and it ain't a cozy home life with 2 kids and a puppy. It's like Catfish. These guys see what looks to me like obviously fake pictures or pictures of girls who don't have to travel across country to find a boy friend, but they don't see that at all. No one on these shows ever wants the sweet looking, modestly dressed girl. They go for the ho, and then wonder how they got catfished or involved with a woman who just wants money from them. 

And while I'm here - how come these people, male and female, never questions why they love of their life on the other end of the phone can't tell them where they work, won't meet them, turns out suddenly to have cancer and can't take their calls for a month, won't Skype, nada. But they're still in love. 

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3 hours ago, LGGirl said:

Note to Tarik:  if Hazel is as religious as she claims to be, she isn’t having sex with you until you are married.   Of course, I don’t believe she is that religious.   She just can’t stand you.  

"If Hazel is as religious as she claims to be", she wouldn't have had a child out of wedlock.  

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On 9/17/2018 at 4:59 PM, trimthatfat said:

Not only did she not seem to care about her clothing, not even for the nights out, but she has had a perma-frown this whole season. She just seems depressed to me. 

Meeeee tooooo!  The light never reaches her eyes.  The end of the visit (with the tears and clinging) was the same emotional shade as the beginning.  I don’t know what Jon sees in her - I mean I dont hate her, she seems like a sweet, compliant girl.  But she’s dull as dirt.  He’s a repeat offender fighter, and she has ZERO fight in her.  Maybe it’s yen and yang, I dunno, I just don’t see how she has him so interested when the other 90 gazillion women he’s been with didnt finish the race.  I like him - seems to me when she throws her Eyeore questions out there in her flat monotone voice, he always has a good, level-headed answer.   However, it worries me that no one she met ever had an encouraging thing to say about him.  Even his mom!   I actually think he wants to settle down, just don’t know that he has it in him to do it.

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I cant watch tonight because Im in the. Emglish countyside on vacation. [yorkshire) l Jon’s home town got a mention today on something I was watching.and its as beautiful in England as it looks but freaking cold.

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3 hours ago, Eldemarge said:

He needs proof of her love and they've only known each other like three weeks.   

I just don't understand that whole mindset at all.  If I sleep with someone early on it usually is because I don't see a future and I just want to have fun.  If I wait and take time to get to know someone before we knock boots it means I sense a future...that is how I went about my life.  Hazel might be a bit more cautious seeing that she has a child from one relationship and a messy break up not long ago.  Or on the other hand, the guy that has her clothes my have been her pimp and she is desperate to get away ASAP lol.

Tarik just keeps pushing for sex and she keeps backing away, Tarik does not see that the more he pushes the more she tenses up...has he even had a conversation with her about his daughter if so does she grasp the reality of what his daughter would even need in the way of care? 

Tarik is in this strickly for his penis and his brother must realize that and is trying to squash a disasterous relationship.  

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3 hours ago, AussieBabe said:

Re the open relationship thing. I get what Jon was saying. Some of his married FWBs were involved in open relationships. It can be assumed that their husbands or boyfriends knew and consented or were down with it. Open relationships or any form of ethical non-monogamy involve honesty and not messing around behind someone's back.

I can speak from experience. I'm an ethical non-monogamist or poly, as I have a husband and a girlfriend of just about the same amount of time. I despise labels and refuse to call it a lifestyle choice. Obviously, everyone's in the loop because she lives on the estate in her own wing, and she's not my dirty little secret. Kiddos are fully aware of who she is. My parents consider her their daughter-in-law. It has been a well oiled machine for almost two decades. I grew up in a religious household, went to parochial schools, always have been devout in my faith, and I still found myself in love with two people. I struggled with it, have lost "friends"/family behind it, etc. Whatever. I raise my glass of wine and eat my Rice-a-Roni and steak cut on the bias. Cheers and suck it.

Poly or any ethical non-monogamy isn't everyone's cup of tea, but Rachel came off kind of judging him and making a big to do about nothing honestly. Yes, there are some people who absolutely feel smothered in a monogamous relationship and can't be with just one person. There are some people who are OK with their partners dating others, and they are happy to only be with the one person. Reality is, some people ebb and flow where their lovestyle is concerned. If my marriage or relationship ended, I wouldn't seek a second partner. I'd be hunky dory with a monogamous situation. It really isn't Rachel's business what he did before she met him. He wasn't being a homewrecker, acting like Mr. Steal Ya Girl, or tearing apart relationships. It sounded like something he found himself in, but it isn't a need or even a want. He didn't say he wanted their relationship to be open or anything along those lines. She was concerned for nothing.

There's an insurmountable difference, though, between what we do in our own lives and what is being presented for our entertainment on this show, and I'm sure that no one here would be as judgmental about someone in person as we are about these guys who parade their fucked-upedness every week.  People who are in relationships of whatever sort who are not in the position of  using sex or withholding sex as part of a transaction--which I think is the case in 90% of what we're watching--is immoral imo.  That's pretty much where my judgment stops:  with the bartering aspect of sex we see over and over here.  And it's so unfair (keep your pants on, Rachel) when what is being bartered is fucking for a chance at a better life.  Seems like a gross devaluation of one or the other.

Jon and Rachel are almost unique in not being in that transactional mode, but I think a little eye-rolling is certainly justified when/if either of them questions the ability of the other to be faithful.  Jon has confessed to various affairs with various partners, and Rachel has confessed to unprotected sex with someone else after she had become serious with Jon.  No Simon Pures here.

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I'm sad because I get 90 Days on Prime so won't see it until tomorrow!  But I'll contribute a Rice a Roni link -- you have to have a weird sense of humor to appreciate it!

 

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8 hours ago, iwasish said:

 

I see Rachel’s concern about his being okay with “open” relationships as fear that he will  stray during the time she is in the US. She is aware that there’s  good chance they will be separated for stretches of time and she doesn’t want to have to worry about his fidelity during that period. 

True, I have never been the jealous type, but I don't see anything wrong with him getting his rocks off while we're apart.  I probably wouldn't do it too, just because sex doesn't really mean much to me.  I could really care less what he does when I go back to the US.  The only risk is that he may fall in love with someone else, and if that happens, then a major problem is solved.

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10 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:
On 9/22/2018 at 2:27 PM, crabbygrrl said:

They also all seem to have better phones than I do.

 

Poverty stricken with 800 dollar phones!!  Quick send money!!

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4 hours ago, Honey said:

True, I have never been the jealous type, but I don't see anything wrong with him getting his rocks off while we're apart.  I probably wouldn't do it too, just because sex doesn't really mean much to me.  I could really care less what he does when I go back to the US.  The only risk is that he may fall in love with someone else, and if that happens, then a major problem is solved.

I think the difference is that she IS concerned about him stepping out and would be upset if he left her for someone else. IMO, the fact that Jon has had the kind of relationships that were not monagamy based scares Rachel, because monagamy is so important to her. If he had said he had a lot of relationships but that they were commitment based even if only for a brief time, she would be a bit less stressed.

Edited by iwasish
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6 hours ago, MrFluffy said:

OK, something's off with the Darcy/Jesse airport scene.

And last night, when Jesse's plane was taxiing, they showed a United plane on the runway. United doesn't fly to/from JFK. 

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On 9/22/2018 at 8:08 PM, guilfoyleatpp said:

I don't think either one of the two people on the show ever used the word "adultery," so I'm not going to touch that topic. Not everyone is Christian, or religious even. 

adultery isn't a religious term.

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No, the "free refills" is only an American thing.  People in other parts of the world don't drink nearly as much soda.

Its not just soda. When I visited Ireland, they charged me for extra packets of butter. And in London, the McDonalds wouldn't give me extra ketchup packets. 

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It is not just an American thing. It may be an American marketing move to give away basically free sugar water in its base price. In other parts of the world you can by bottomless, or whatever the local term may be and get continued refills of rice, the soup of the day or a sugar water drink. And then use the little bit of the main dish to add a bit of flavor to the rice, popcorn, bar nuts, etc that you stuffed yourself on.

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21 hours ago, crabbygrrl said:

I'm sad because I get 90 Days on Prime so won't see it until tomorrow!  But I'll contribute a Rice a Roni link -- you have to have a weird sense of humor to appreciate it!

 

I know this is completely off topic, but I have the same odd sense of humor.  Why is he out of breath?  The microwave looks pretty modern, but this is what I would have expected to see on TV when they were a fairly newly available product - Look!  You can actually cook in one!

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19 hours ago, KateHearts said:

adultery isn't a religious term.

Oooh, I guess that’s me told, then. 

Except you and your two friends who hearted your post weren’t following the entire discussion. 

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I was into this show at the beginning...but as I watched all the drama unfold it became clear that these people are are delusional and have no common sense...can they not see the train wreck!!  How can they believe all the BS that comes out of their "love's" mouth?? Are they really that stupid? I'm not the brightest in this world...but I can spot a scam and bold faced lies.....Jesse is a self absorbed idiot that is passive-aggressive...Paul has been "taken" by Karinne ..is so childish and immature....

All of these couples need therapy...to come back to reality...this is a gong show!!

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On 9/19/2018 at 1:00 PM, lucy711 said:

I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure I read online that Darcey doesn't have primary custody of her kids.  I think the girls live with their dad.  I don't know how often she sees them.

I have the same impression. I think Darcy is not responsible enough to take care of her daughters. The girls live with their father and she plays a ‘mommy’ role on rotating weekends

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On 9/23/2018 at 4:39 PM, JennyMominFL said:

I cant watch tonight because Im in the. Emglish countyside on vacation. [yorkshire) l Jon’s home town got a mention today on something I was watching.and its as beautiful in England as it looks but freaking cold.

We just got home from London (and Bath and the Cotswolds) and every London scene they are in, I am looking to figure out where they are!

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20 minutes ago, Meowwww said:

We just got home from London (and Bath and the Cotswolds) and every London scene they are in, I am looking to figure out where they are!

London Eye!!!

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1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

London Eye!!!

Yeah with apparently their own pod. When we went on the Eye, we were jammed in with 13445645 other people and their kids.  

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36 minutes ago, Meowwww said:

Yeah with apparently their own pod. When we went on the Eye, we were jammed in with 13445645 other people and their kids.  

We looked into booking a private pod to renew our wedding vows.  It's doable, but  not cheap.  

ETA:  Current price is about $550 American for a private pod.

Edited by AZChristian
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Long time watcher. First time poster. I like Angela, and I like Michael. He seems very sweet. It appears they are having great sex, and of all the couples, they are the 2 that I like individually as people the most.

Tarik and Hazel are a nightmare. Hazel is completely unattractive to him, but wants a better life. He wants an attractive wife, who is affordable.

Ricky is a nightmare. He and Tarik is are the same type of person. Desperate.

I'm not sure if I'm down with Ximeia's facial expressions. Ricky is too eager to tell her he came for Melissa. It was not hard at all to tell her-- he couldn't wait to let her know how *lucky* she was. I see that relationship going nowhere. Ricky isn't into her-- he's trying to save face IMO.

I do not get Darcey's desperation to be with Jesse. They appear to hate each other. His wistful lamenting on free refills. That was probably the best thing I've heard in a year. OMG, I laughed hard. That was pretty cute.

Jon and Rachel seem like a solid couple. They are a cute family together.

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On 9/23/2018 at 12:23 PM, AussieBabe said:

Re the open relationship thing. I get what Jon was saying. Some of his married FWBs were involved in open relationships. It can be assumed that their husbands or boyfriends knew and consented or were down with it. Open relationships or any form of ethical non-monogamy involve honesty and not messing around behind someone's back.

If adultery bothered me, then "some of his married FWBs were involved in open relationships" would get my attention, and it would be a different discussion from if it were "all of his married FWBs were involved in open relationships."

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