S02.E08 Part VIII

[bilgistic]

On 9/20/2018 at 1:07 AM, Simba122504 said:

I believed the beacon was the father until the start of this episode. I don't even understand how Vera was able to blackmail Novack over this? Vera and Heather's dad didn't even personally know each other. She didn't even know Heather. Vera was a Mosswood member and once you enter Mosswood, the rest of the world doesn't exist. How can she force an outsider who is also a stranger to send her money for 10 years? It's not like she was ever going to report it to the police.  And one more time. She never even met Heather's dad. They have no connection at at.   Vera believed the beacon was the father. Marin told Vera he[the beacon] was the father. I'm positive TB believed he was the father too. If I'm wrong about the cult mother not knowing Heather's dad or Heather, then correct me if I'm wrong. I'm positive there wasn't any flashback or present scenes showing that. But we all knew daddy dearest was hiding something and was involved in some way. Of course he kept the keys in his jeans. Of course he did! The trope says the culprit will always leave the evidence right there in the open. They still never explained why Julian chose to kill Beth and that other member instead of just running away. He knew them well. They never harmed him. His first instinct was to poison them, even though they gave him no reason to do that. It did have good suspense at the start of the season. 

 

It seemed implied in the diner conversation with Harry that Jack was sending the money voluntarily, presumably because he felt guilty and at the very least some sense of responsibility. He set up the shell corporation named Daedalus, which in Greek mythology is the father of Icarus. Daedalus made Icarus's wings of feathers and wax that melted when he flew too close to the sun. He fell into the sea and drowned.

Vera did have a connection to Heather's dad through the mustache man, Fisher. In the first(?) episode, Jack invited Harry to a party at Fisher's. Fisher was in the cult, but he didn't live at Mosswood.

Edited September 23, 2018 by bilgistic

[DangerousMinds]

I think they both both 18.

[Lion18]

On 9/19/2018 at 11:49 PM, Irlandesa said:

I kind of liked it too except for the fact that they never explained the first murder.  We never found out why he killed them--if it was just because he was afraid they were taking him away?  Nothing.

Otherwise, I enjoyed them wrapping up the stories.  I don't know that I would have seen all of them if I hadn't read the speculation here. 

Please help. Why didn’t Julian get put in prison for killing his fake parents?  Or after Niagara Falls will he be serving a prison sentence?

[WearyTraveler]

1 minute ago, Lion18 said:

Please help. Why didn’t Julian get put in prison for killing his fake parents?  Or after Niagara Falls will he be serving a prison sentence?

He got 4 years in a juvenile facility, with a review in 3 years.  His visit to Niagara Falls was authorized: while in the car, he reminded Ambrose and Heather that they had to be back by 6:00.  He wasn't tried as an adult, he was tried as a juvenile, so his sentence was a juvenile sentence, he was never going to prison.

[Lion18]

1 minute ago, WearyTraveler said:

He got 4 years in a juvenile facility, with a review in 3 years.  His visit to Niagara Falls was authorized: while in the car, he reminded Ambrose and Heather that they had to be back by 6:00.  He wasn't tried as an adult, he was tried as a juvenile, so his sentence was a juvenile sentence, he was never going to prison.

Thank you.  I lost such interest in the show and  missed it. 

[WearyTraveler]

I thought this season was better than the first one in that it was much less convoluted.  I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it either.  

 

Regarding the "rock", I don't think we need any particular explanation.  Why do people follow crazy cult leaders to the extent of committing suicide at their command? The answer to that has already been given by scientists, and it's the same answer when it comes to adoring or believing in the special powers of some inanimate object that their cult leader told them to worship.

[LoveLeigh]

IMO: if a series opens with a double murder and a detective comes to help solve that murder and at the end of the series all sorts of nonsense is explained EXCEPT why the accused did the crime, the series is a fail. 

I can go with a series not solving a murder and explaining why it remained unsolved, but in this season 2 it seems as if the characters knew why and the answer was never presented to the viewers. The entire content of episode 1 was totally ignored. Why did Julian kill Beth and Adam? That question was key to season 2 and we are never given a reason? So then Julian did it because he is psychotic? He did it because he thought he was being kidnapped? And why did Vera keep telling Julian he was special? What was Julian's big mission? 

I think this season was totally sloppy and preposterous. 

[slothgirl]

46 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

IMO: if a series opens with a double murder and a detective comes to help solve that murder and at the end of the series all sorts of nonsense is explained EXCEPT why the accused did the crime, the series is a fail. 

I can go with a series not solving a murder and explaining why it remained unsolved, but in this season 2 it seems as if the characters knew why and the answer was never presented to the viewers. The entire content of episode 1 was totally ignored. Why did Julian kill Beth and Adam? That question was key to season 2 and we are never given a reason? So then Julian did it because he is psychotic? He did it because he thought he was being kidnapped? And why did Vera keep telling Julian he was special? What was Julian's big mission? 

I think this season was totally sloppy and preposterous. 

I posted my thoughts on why he killed them above. I also think they tried to address that question in the courtroom scene where Julian's fate was sealed. 

They left a lot unanswered, but for me, not that. IMO it was about the only thing they DID answer.

[Kiss my mutt]

I wonder if Vera gave Ambrose Jimson weed to have him hallucinate. She mentioned earlier to Julian that a small amount with cause those. 

I liked Ambrose’s smile at the end. It as the first time I really saw a genuine happy smile from him. He saw so much of himself in that boy. 

I enjoyed both seasons. The story was a bit loosey-goosey but it was made up by the character development.  Fine performances are all around. 

[MamaMax]

So my general reaction to this whole series is: I DON'T GET IT. 

[Lady of nod]

On 9/20/2018 at 6:00 PM, Neurochick said:

Here’s my take on the show.

Mosswood was a place where prominent men from the town came to abuse women.  The Beacon allowed that.  Vera realized what was going on at some point.

Marin became pregnant by Heather’s father.  I believe she was too drunk to give consent.  Marin went to Mosswood because she wanted to get away from everything.  

The doctor killed himself because he didn’t want it to come out that he was performing abortions at Mosswood, also maybe he saw that women were being abused and said nothing.

The tea Vera gave Abbrose was laced with something, that droning sound seemed to bring on a hypnotic state,nuthatch plus the tea produced something like a blackout.  Ambrose basically said he wants to die, that’s what oblivion is, but he doesn’t actually want to die, if that makes sense.

The body they found had nothing to do with Mosswood.

I really liked the show.  I don’t need everything wrapped up in a nice red bow for me to be satisfied.

I agree with all of this. And I don't need every little thing explained either. The one thing I do want is an explanation on is why Julian killed the couple. That makes no sense to me and since it was central to the plot they should have addressed it better. 

[MamaMax]

1 hour ago, Lady of nod said:

I agree with all of this. And I don't need every little thing explained either. The one thing I do want is an explanation on is why Julian killed the couple. That makes no sense to me and since it was central to the plot they should have addressed it better. 

I just want to know WHY they took him and WHY he killed them!

[AuntiePam]

54 minutes ago, MamaMax said:

I just want to know WHY they took him and WHY he killed them!

I think we're supposed to believe they took him to protect him from the Beacon, who was (presumably) planning to sacrifice him.  As for why, we not only have to read between the lines, we have to provide the lines.  Someone above suggested that Julian had a warped notion of death -- it was like starting over -- but that still doesn't explain why he chose that time and place and that couple to test that theory.

[slothgirl]

18 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

- but that still doesn't explain why he chose that time and place and that couple to test that theory.

Because he overheard them saying that they were never taking him back home and that they had lied to him about the trip and where they were going. He knew they weren't really going to NF's and he knew he'd never see his mother again. He didn't know that initially which is why he seemed happy and close to them in earlier scenes of the trip and then suddenly turned on them. You have to go back and watch the earlier episodes to see that scene.

We also learned from the scene with Vera where she talks to him about the weed that he might not have even expected them to die based on what she says about the weed combined with his skewed idea of what death is. But if he did expect them to die, he would have done it because he knew they were kidnapping him. I don't understand why people don't think this was explained. To me it's the ONLY thing that got even partially explained.

We have no reason to think the Beacon was still around to sacrifice him. The impression given from the scene of Vera giving the Beacon tea is that Julian was still an infant when the beacon left the picture (in whatever state he left in). I seriously doubt the Beacon would have bothered to raise Julian for that long before going forward with his plan, nor would I expect Vera to wait that long living in anxiety and fear the whole time. Julian thought of Vera as his mother and has plenty of time with her for quite awhile. The Beacon wouldn't have allowed that. He's LONG gone before this incident, and not a factor. Bess and Adam were no doubt working out a plan with Marin and possibly Jack. It had nothing to do with the red herring of the sacrifice.

[MamaMax]

1 hour ago, slothgirl said:

Because he overheard them saying that they were never taking him back home and that they had lied to him about the trip and where they were going. He knew they weren't really going to NF's and he knew he'd never see his mother again. He didn't know that initially which is why he seemed happy and close to them in earlier scenes of the trip and then suddenly turned on them. You have to go back and watch the earlier episodes to see that scene.

We also learned from the scene with Vera where she talks to him about the weed that he might not have even expected them to die based on what she says about the weed combined with his skewed idea of what death is. But if he did expect them to die, he would have done it because he knew they were kidnapping him. I don't understand why people don't think this was explained. To me it's the ONLY thing that got even partially explained.

We have no reason to think the Beacon was still around to sacrifice him. The impression given from the scene of Vera giving the Beacon tea is that Julian was still an infant when the beacon left the picture (in whatever state he left in). I seriously doubt the Beacon would have bothered to raise Julian for that long before going forward with his plan, nor would I expect Vera to wait that long living in anxiety and fear the whole time. Julian thought of Vera as his mother and has plenty of time with her for quite awhile. The Beacon wouldn't have allowed that. He's LONG gone before this incident, and not a factor. Bess and Adam were no doubt working out a plan with Marin and possibly Jack. It had nothing to do with the red herring of the sacrifice.

AHA. Yes. I got sidetracked by the sacrifice thing, and was like, Surely Vera got rid of the Beacon a long time ago, so why send Julian away NOW? For some reason I kept thinking that Vera was lying about Bess and Adam kidnapping Julia and that she was in on it. 

[Simba122504]

On 9/22/2018 at 7:44 PM, bilgistic said:

It seemed implied in the diner conversation with Harry that Jack was sending the money voluntarily, presumably because he felt guilty and at the very least some sense of responsibility. He set up the shell corporation named Daedalus, which in Greek mythology is the father of Icarus. Daedalus made Icarus's wings of feathers and wax that melted when he flew too close to the sun. He fell into the sea and drowned.

Vera did have a connection to Heather's dad through the mustache man, Fisher. In the first(?) episode, Jack invited Harry to a party at Fisher's. Fisher was in the cult, but he didn't live at Mosswood.

 

*I hate this new phone* I'm going to stay by many questions being left unanswered and lot of storylines not making sense in the end.  That nutty lady in the mental institution who was a former member was never brought up again.  She said her uterus was removed. Nothing became of that plotline. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by Simba122504
Dumb phone. Ugh

[AnnieHeights]

Didn't Julian say something like he thought death gave them a new beginning or something like that? Combine that with the realization he was being kidnapped, he felt that was the only way out and they would ultimately be ok, because death didn't mean the same thing to him as it does to us.   

[Xeliou66]

Part of the ending was satisfying but part of it wasn’t. I liked the conclusion for each of the characters and thought that overall the plot was decent, but there were still some loose ends which was disappointing. I am still unsure why exactly Julian killed Adam and Bess, I get that it was because Adam and Bess were taking him away from his home and weren’t taking him back, but why? Were they working with Marin to take Julian to her? That’s the only explanation I can think of, nothing else makes sense about why they would take Julian from Mosswood. Not clearing up the exact circumstances leading to Julian killing Adam and Bess is unforgivable for a show that’s supposed to be about why he did it. 

I’m guessing Vera killed the Beacon, but that was never cleared up. And what was with the rock? And why did the doctor kill himself? Did he not want to be exposed as a member of the cult? What will happen to the other cult members, like Fisher, now that Vera is apparently dismantling the cult? Some of this should’ve been cleared up.

It was incredibly easy to figure out that Jack was going to be a bad guy, I had that pegged from the start, I knew he was going to be Julian’s father as soon as we figured out Marin was his mother, it’s not surprised Jack raped Marin, he gave off an incredibly creepy, strange vibe the whole series. 

The show left too many lose ends but I still enjoyed it, it the plot was interesting and fairly suspenseful.

[WearyTraveler]

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Were they working with Marin to take Julian to her? That’s the only explanation I can think of, nothing else makes sense about why they would take Julian from Mosswood.

There was a scene where Marin talked to Bess and begged her to help her get Julian back. Bess agreed. So, it follows that's why they took Julian away. 

[endure]

On 2018-09-20 at 7:35 AM, Darian said:

The strong acting wasn't enough to overcome the lazy, indulgent storytelling. Wish I'd learned my lesson from season 1 and not come back for this one. 

I am totally in agreement, the storey was crap, the acting was good in parts and i definitely won’t be back for another season.

[thomasdown92]

It was a really unsatisfying end to an interesting series. It was like they completely forgot to show what really happened to "The Beacon". He didn't seem like a character who will just leave his community and followers and vanish into oblivion. The acting was top notch but I wish they had sustained the suspense till the very end. 

[QQQQ]

On 9/21/2018 at 2:25 PM, proserpina65 said:

And given the discussion about jimson weed we saw between Vera and Julian, I don't think he really understood that they would die.

OMG, the whole show I thought he had used GINSENG  😂

[FozzyBear]

I really like Bill Pullman’s performance as Ambrose this season. I especially liked that he looked afraid so often. I don’t think male actors are directed to look afraid that often. Ambrose looked weak and scared so much, it was an interesting choice. For me it gave a bit more dimension to what could have been the “middle aged pensive guy with a secret who doesn’t like to talk” trope.  

[DonnaMae]

On 9/20/2018 at 2:29 PM, Iguessnot said:

Here's one. Why did the doctor kill himself? 

He knew he would be exposed for doing illegal abortions, which would end his career and he'd probably go to prison.

[DonnaMae]

On 9/27/2018 at 1:42 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Were they working with Marin to take Julian to her?

Didn't you see that scene where Bess was talking on the phone to Marin?  They abducted Julian to take him to Marin.

[Umbelina]

Overall, I liked all three seasons, including this one.

I "got" why Julian gave them the tea.  That part was well explained, in bits and pieces, but done.  They were lying to him.  Lies split the soul.  When you die, the soul heals and you come back.  He basically had no idea what death is, was never shown or taught, and as said above, the Jimson weed wasn't fully understood by him either.  From what he'd been told?  He was saving their souls.

BUT

Those men from the town coming to "enjoy" Mosswood.  Not members, but obviously anxious to participate.  WTF?

Just leave that dangling?

The one thing I really want to know is about the town's involvement with the cult, it's implied freedom to rape and even kill "the partner" but that seemed to be for the indoctrinated, not tourists. 

As for the doctor's suicide?  He's the Mosswood doc.  Obviously he's seen and participated in a LOT, rapes, deaths, beatings, abortions, God knows what else.  I think he offed himself because he enabled a lot of what went on there, and hushed it up.  He may have even enjoyed some of the same bennies that those strange men visiting were expecting to.

So basically, I want to know about the town and Mosswood, as well as more about what perverted crap went on there before Vera took over.

[Kristi800]

On 9/20/2018 at 3:39 AM, AnimeMania said:

Ambrose doesn't care if Vera murdered "The Beacon" or did she?

She said he left. She didn't confess to killing him even though she did! (Just binged)

I wonder if they told Julian that Heather is his sister. Don't see it, but so be it. 

I don't think Marin was underage but regardless, he raped her and just turned 18. So Vera was blackmailing him, but he could have blackmailed her that she wasn't Julian's mother.

It did seem that the whole town was a part of Mosswood, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was some ritual part of the "cleansing" killed Heather's mom, which could be why her father left.