S08.E07: A Birth-day and a Birthday

[Albanyguy]

On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 12:21 PM, mythoughtis said:

Many of the lay midwives I’ve encountered are indeed members of strict fundamentalist churches and they cater to like-minded women.  They are often sceptical of modern medicine and convinced that most cesareans are unnecessary amongst other things.

And this is why so many horribly incompetent midwives like Theresa Fedorosky are allowed to escape the consequences of their actions. If a botched home birth results in injury or death due to complications that could have been avoided, nobody would dream of taking legal action against the midwife because she's "one of us". Even if a young mother dared to consider reporting her midwife to the authorities for incompetence, her parents, husband and pastor would gang up on her and pressure her to "forgive" because the midwife is a Godly Christian woman and whatever went wrong was simply "God's will" (or worse, whatever went wrong was the young mother's fault because she didn't pray hard enough). Thank God that Dr. Jill has always been too lazy to actually follow through on her "career" as a midwife.

[kokapetl]

Swanson is a mangling of the Swedish name Svensson. It seems that Swedish people were apparently once too “ethnic” for America. 

[LilJen]

On 9/4/2018 at 2:02 PM, doodlebug said:

No, it's don't have a homebirth without a qualified attendant and good prenatal care.  Many regular doctors and CNM's will provide prenatal care even if the woman is planning to stay home for the birth. Most of them won't actually come to the house for the birth, though. Of course, the birth is the most crucial part of the process; so my best advice would be to use a board certified practitioner and deliver in a licensed maternity facility.  Expecting anyone, especially a direct entry midwife whose training and experience are simply not anywhere close to the level of a CNM or MD, to not only provide all prenatal care but then to come to your home and spend 10-15 or more hours in constant vigilance over you and your child is expecting far too much of any one person.  Most babies delivered at home are healthy in spite of the circumstances, not because of them.

BTW, I've heard from multiple people in attendance at home births that lay midwives do not plan to be present for the labor, they expect to be called and come out an hour or two before the birth.  If they are called and come out and delivery is not imminent, they will often go back home after chastising the family for wasting their time.  You are not going to find a lay midwife who is willing to stay at your home from the moment you think something is happening until it actually does unless it is somebody like Jill.  Average labor for a first baby is 12-16 hours from the time things really start happening.  There can be a normal prodromal period of labor up to 24 hours prior to that and it is normal.

 

On 9/4/2018 at 6:48 PM, sATL said:

I would like to know what is the real reason the women think they can't have the "labor of their dreams" somewhere other than at home? Have they actually toured a facility and asked questions? They focus so much on the labor - the focus should be on a healthy baby and mom.

If Austin was an EMT who transported moms to the hospital - why would that be such a foreign idea to him to have his child in one?

I think the Bates are also leaning away from home births, too. 

I think some women, once they've heard a few hospital-birth horror stories ("The nurses were awful!" "The doctor only flew in just before the birth and tore me to pieces!" "I had no say in what happened, despite them saying I would"), are only too happy to chuck it in favor of the "labor of their dreams" fantasy sold by so many. Yep, sometimes horrible, traumatic births happen in hospitals, and some personnel are awful, but on the whole it is STILL safer to have all those people, equipment, and experience close at hand if something goes wrong. I ended up with an emergency c-section (no known reason, just losing baby's heartbeat every contraction) and was pissed about it for a good while--I didn't *think* I held fantasies of the ideal labor (I hold dh's hand, I tell him "never touch me again!", he gives helpful encouragement, we listen to mellow music and I do the breathing I was taught, I get to cut the cord, baby is immediately in my arms after birth and I feel a surge of divine love), but it was evident afterward that I DID have some hope of those wonderful moments that birthing moms have when things go well.

Long way of saying I can kind of understand, a little, why some of these women go for the home birth. They hope for that dreamy experience that everyone says is what childbirth is supposed to be like.

[latetotheparty]

3 hours ago, Totally said:

It looked like Jinger ate the filling of her quiche and left the crust

Maybe she’s lowcarbing

Or doesn’t like crust. I actually like crust in quiche but tend to leave it with pie, go figure. Maybe it had, as Mary Berry would say, a soggy bottom. :)

[McManda]

2 hours ago, kokapetl said:

It seems that Swedish people were apparently once too “ethnic” for America. 

At one point all people not British were too ethnic for America.

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 minute ago, McManda said:

At one point all people not British were too ethnic for America.

And the Native Americans even more so...

[kokapetl]

24 minutes ago, McManda said:

At one point all people not British were too ethnic for America.

Even then it was only certain British Protestants. 

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

And this is why so many horribly incompetent midwives like Theresa Fedorosky are allowed to escape the consequences of their actions. If a botched home birth results in injury or death due to complications that could have been avoided, nobody would dream of taking legal action against the midwife because she's "one of us". Even if a young mother dared to consider reporting her midwife to the authorities for incompetence, her parents, husband and pastor would gang up on her and pressure her to "forgive" because the midwife is a Godly Christian woman and whatever went wrong was simply "God's will" (or worse, whatever went wrong was the young mother's fault because she didn't pray hard enough). Thank God that Dr. Jill has always been too lazy to actually follow through on her "career" as a midwife.

There would also be difficulty finding a malpractice attorney to take the case.  Lay midwives don't have malpractice insurance and don't make a steady income.  Also, itwould be hard to find a jury where every single juror thinks having a home birth with a lay midwife is a valid option.  Since malpractice lawyers take cases on contingency; they only get paid if they win.  If the jury isn't completely convinced that a lay midwife should be a competent practitioner, they may well decide that it's not her fault that things went off the rails, what did those parents expect, choosing someone with so little training to deliver their kid? And, even if the jury decides in the plaintiff's favor, the lay midwife doesn't have insurance and likely doesn't have enough assets to provide a reasonable payout.

As for the legal aspects, yes, parents could go to the police and tell them what happened.  A lay midwife could be charged with practicing medicine without a license or even assault or worse if something really egregious happens.  However, this would mean the parents would have to go public and testify against her.  This would probably cause the parents to be ostracized in their church community.  Many of these fundamentalist types are inherently distrustful of public institutions/the justice system anyway.  They've also been brainwashed into believing that everything that happens is God's will, there is no one to blame except themselves for not having enough faith.  I have seen this attitude firsthand on multiple occasions.

[queenanne]

Isn't there actually a Bible verse that says Christians shouldn't sue other Christians ever, or which is at minimum twisted by many Christians to interpret it as such?  

Found it:

Question: "What does the Bible say about lawsuits / suing?"

Answer: The apostle Paul instructed the Corinthian believers to not go to court against one another (1 Corinthians 6:1-8). For Christians not to forgive each other and reconcile their own differences is to demonstrate spiritual defeat. Why would someone want to become a Christian if Christians have just as many problems and are just as incapable of solving them? However, there are some instances when a lawsuit might be the proper course of action. If the biblical pattern for reconciliation has been followed (Matthew 18:15-17) and the offending party is still in the wrong, in some instances a lawsuit might be justified. This should only be done after much prayer for wisdom (James 1:5) and consultation with spiritual leadership.

More here if you are curious:

https://www.gotquestions.org/lawsuits-suing.html

[zoomama]

looked at that house....omg hideous. it has great possibilities but needs a total gut job!  dont even get me started on that pool.....gag.

[mythoughtis]

The 1st post of this page has a quote attributed to me. That’s inaccurate. Those are doodlebugs words that I then Quoted and made a response to. I know zero midwives

Edited September 8, 2018 by mythoughtis

[Rabbittron]

On 9/5/2018 at 7:25 PM, Pingaponga said:

I'm assuming Joe and Kendra aren't "housesitting". So how does JB decide who gets a house to live in off-property, who gets a house on-property, and who has to make do with house-sitting? Because I can't figure it out.

The deeper Blobs claws are in a person's back decides where they get to live. 

[EmeraldGirl]

Giving birth with the comforts of home? I’d be having a stroke just thinking that my mattress might get bloody. 

I’m torn on most of these couples. I find Kendra and Joe pretty sweet. He needed her. But his social awkwardness and licking of plates scares me.  Jessa and Ben seem good together. They’ve settled in. Jessa takes the lead, Ben lays back. And their kids seem really sweet and calm. I really like Joy for some reason. She’s not very bright, but seems to go with the flow and isn’t at all tamed by nostrils. JIll seems way too codependent, and Lauren is just creepy. I like Jinger, but she is very meek. Maybe that’s just who she is, and she will inherit the earth. 

[Heathen]

People who are from or whose ancestors were from El Salvador are referred to as Salvadorans. El is the Spanish word for the; thus, saying "El Salvadorans" is equivalent to saying "the Salvadorans." There is no e or i in Salvadoran. 

Can someone post screenshots of the Josiah/Lauren house for those of us who don't have cable? 

[andromeda331]

17 hours ago, kokapetl said:

Swanson is a mangling of the Swedish name Svensson. It seems that Swedish people were apparently once too “ethnic” for America. 

Some of us Swedes refused to buckle! 

[frenchtoast]

All this discussion of houses, remember do not post links or pictures of people's houses. From the sitewide guides and FAQ:

Quote

This isn't really a big trend here BUT since it has come up recently in one thread, I would like to be clear that we don't want posts spilling home addresses, maps and truly personal details on that level of anyone (either on TV or not).

It's kinda creepy.

We think people on TV are "fair game" for comments but let's respect everyone's personal privacy. Please and thank you.

[Sew Sumi]

I think the request was for interior shots. I don't think they showed the outside of the SiRen manse, nor do we know its address. I hope it's okay to show the interior in all its drywalled glory. Actually, I think someone already did, either on this thread or SiRen's. 

[awaken]

My mattress (and carpets) survived my three homebirths great!  Not a bloodstain anywhere. ?

now, my daughter who gets frequent nosebleeds, that’s been a mattress issue, even with a protective cover!  

[Heathen]

5 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I think the request was for interior shots. I don't think they showed the outside of the SiRen manse, nor do we know its address. I hope it's okay to show the interior in all its drywalled glory. Actually, I think someone already did, either on this thread or SiRen's. 

Yes, I meant interior screenshots. Forgive me -- I assumed that was acceptable since there have been so many posted in this forum already (Duggars, Dullards, Vuolos, Seewalds, and so on). 

[frenchtoast]

Yes, interior shots are fine, it was more a gentle reminder so it didn't start heading towards more identifying information. It was just a preemptive note.

[Sew Sumi]

Thanks for the clarification.

[graefin]

If I have time tonight, I can restream the ep and grab some screen shots of the house.

[RedDelicious]

On 9/8/2018 at 7:37 AM, Totally said:

It looked like Jinger ate the filling of her quiche and left the crust

Maybe she’s lowcarbing

I'm 99.999% sure that is a trick taught at Weight Watchers (I used to go to meetings and I loved them).  Was it Jana who was sent to Weight Watchers and then taught the rest of the girls how to do it?  Duggar School of Becoming a Professional by Observation strikes again.  Ugh.

[graefin]

Found this link over on FJ. Saves me some work ;)

https://imgur.com/gallery/CtRJ1rF

[BitterApple]

It's a really dreary looking house. Not somewhere I'd choose to live but free is free, I guess.

[graefin]

It's weird that of all the properties they own, this would be the one assigned to Josiah/Lauren, isn't it? What could be the reasoning? They know they aren't the best match, so give them as much space as possible so they don't get on each other's  last nerve too quickly?

[Mojitogirl]

That seems to have been a commercial establishment what with the sliding doors, big vestibule, and sweeping wide staircase. Since I don’t trust these people, I’m thinking it was for the TV show and he’s living somewhere else. Maybe he’s JB’s project manager/ security guard and lives in a little area?  I wonder what JB’s ultimate plans are for it?  A church seems more and more likely, IMO. 

ETA:  i bet the bathrooms are public type bathrooms with stalls. I hope there were living quarters somewhere in there. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Mojitogirl

[Lunera]

5 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

I'm 99.999% sure that is a trick taught at Weight Watchers (I used to go to meetings and I loved them).  Was it Jana who was sent to Weight Watchers and then taught the rest of the girls how to do it?  Duggar School of Becoming a Professional by Observation strikes again.  Ugh.

In an episode where Jinger was still courting she asked for tacos with lettuce instead of tortillas. I think Jessa also mentioned cutting out carbs with her 2nd pregnancy.

[ChiCricket]

On 9/4/2018 at 5:48 PM, sATL said:

I would like to know what is the real reason the women think they can't have the "labor of their dreams" somewhere other than at home? Have they actually toured a facility and asked questions? They focus so much on the labor - the focus should be on a healthy baby and mom.

If Austin was an EMT who transported moms to the hospital - why would that be such a foreign idea to him to have his child in one?

I think the Bates are also leaning away from home births, too. 

 

  This question made me remember my sister getting really into having a natural home birth after she joined a very fundamental Bible following church.

  I remember her saying it was because it 'was in the Bible' that women should suffer, so I googled it:

Genesis 3:16 

To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

  Maybe that has nothing to do with a home birth, but you sure can't get an epidural at home.  Maybe that's the reasoning?

Edited September 13, 2018 by ChiCricket
I can't explain what I mean very well :/

[Bethanne]

On 9/5/2018 at 11:50 AM, GleamingMist said:

Kendra cemented her place as my new favourite Duggar with that comment!  I think it was immediately followed by comments about only being able to handle really healthy food or something like that?  I love when they throw shade while keeping sweet.

Me too. Down here south of the Mason-Dixon line, it’s known as the “Bless your heart” phenomenon. ;)

Edited September 16, 2018 by Bethanne