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He left in 1991, when there was a huge purge in the cast in the transition from Paul Rauch, Leah Laiman and Craig Carlson, to Linda Gottlieb and Michael Malone. I think they did give him a formal exit, but I'm not sure how.

 

Michael Palance, who played Dan (he was called Dan once he grew up), seemed like he fit the role though, from what I've seen. Apparently almost as many actors played Dan as they did Kevin before he was finally written off. He and Brenda MacGillis were in love at one point, they could have left town together, as she left around the same time with her son Steven (Her son with Steve Holden, Max's brother--and of course, Max's nephew and Al's cousin. He could've been brought on as a young adult later on.)

 

What happened to Michael Storm was just criminal. I couldn't believe it when I read in Llanview in the Afternoon that Michael Storm just wanted to take a vacation, but the show interpreted it as him quitting and so he never came back. He joined the show two years before Erika, for God's sake! He should have been back for the end, treated with the respect he deserved. 

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Thanks for all that, UYI.  I totally agree with you on Michael Storm - even as a kid, I always loved seeing Dr. Larry, and I missed him when he just stopped showing up. I barely remember Dan - like, I basically just recall that he was a character who existed - and I don't remember Brenda at all. According to Wikipedia, he left town with someone named Laura Jean Ellis, who I likewise don't remember.

 

I did find a clip of Dan and Brenda (with bonus 1991 credits!). So they've got some kind of thing, but apparently she also dated Larry? Soapy!

 

 

(ETA: Steve Holden was the guy who was killed by exploding birthday cake, right?)

Edited by Melgaypet

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Brenda was involved in the whole baby switching storyline with Gabrielle and Tina in the late 80s. Here is a great scene with her and Gabrielle.

 

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Dan was the doctor on call the night Gabrielle switched Steven with Garrick Grande, the son of Michael Grande and his wife Alicia (Alicia was killed in a car crash she and Gabrielle had on the way to the hospital--Austin Buchanan had tampered with the brakes). Garrick died shortly afterwards, both because of being born premature and the impact of the car crash, and because Michael was threatening to kill himself if both of them were killed, Gabrielle switched the babies.

 

This was in May 1989, so I was only about three months older than those babies. :)

 

 

I wish her testimony where she describes the events that night were on YouTube. They were on this great fan site dedicated to Fiona in the dark ages known as the pre-social media heavy days of the Internet in the early 2000's, but that stuff is long gone, and many of those clips still haven't made it to YT yet. 

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I did find a clip of Dan and Brenda (with bonus 1991 credits!). So they've got some kind of thing, but apparently she also dated Larry? Soapy!

 

 

(ETA: Steve Holden was the guy who was killed by exploding birthday cake, right?)

 

Yeah, you don't see very many father/son type triangles on soaps, do you?

 

And yes, Steve was killed by the wedding cake at Asa & Renee's and Cord & Tina's double wedding in 1988. Brenda was already pregnant with Steven, and asked for some cake. Ursula Blackwell (Jill Larson pre-AMC) had rigged the cake to kill Tina, but the bomb didn't go off until just after Steve heard something suspicious about the cake possibly being rigged . He then pushed Brenda, who had gone to get some cake, out of the way and was killed by the bomb. And of course, he never got to meet his son.

 

Here's the clip! Erika's narration is due to this being from a VHS released in 1993 for memorable OLTL weddings. That's why the clip is so edited, too. The double wedding is up on YT, though, so maybe that includes the explosion.

 

 

Also, was Russ Anderson PERFECT casting for Steve or what? He looks JUST like JDP.

Edited by UYI

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Seriously one of the best soap deaths ever. I remember watching that. It was ludicrous and SO amazing to watch.

 

Explodey wedding cake!! Come on! Instant win!

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Jon Russell gets Max to admit he loves Gabrielle under oath during her baby switch trial, 1989. This isn't the full version--it was on Fiona Fest, the best Fiona Hutchison fan site ever, way back when, but was long ago taken down--but an edited version, from when Megan and Max spoke for the last time in 1992, when she was dying of lupus. 

 

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Tweet from Brett Claywell (Kyle Lewis) re: the Supreme Court's ruling on gay marriage:

 

I am humbled and proud of our role, no matter how small, in helping all people achieve their equal right to love. #KishLives #LoveWins

 

Take it away, Reverend Carpenter:

 

Edited by TeeVee329
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I knew I wasn't the only one thinking "now Oliver and Kyle can get married!"

 

And Amelia and Madame Delphina can take a vacation.

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Who loved Nora and RJ? I found a very touching video where she comforts him right after Elizabeth, Keri, and Jamie's deaths. (Of course, the latter two weren't dead and it turned out that RJ knew that for months, but I'm like 95% sure at this point he really did think they were dead, so this is not fake grief.) HBS and TDS worked brilliantly together

 

Their scenes are cut with ones of Natalie & Cris (adorbs!) having to deal with Antonio being a tool, as per usual. And also Hank!

 

Edited by Melgaypet
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I always wanted them to do R.J. and Nora for real. TDS and HBS would hint at their characters' affair constantly in little things here and there. I still remember Nora's goofy dream when she was trying to hold onto her memories after Lindsay drugged her back in 2000; she went down a line of her loved ones, and R.J. was there and just purred, 'it was good once, Nora, remember that!' Jesus.

 

Dena Higley hinted at an R.J./Nora thing very, very briefly as a minor subplot but wasted it, because she didn't give a shit about Nora or any of it. They actually kissed, and then it turned into juvenile backburner fodder for Nora and Lindsay catfighting. It was embarrassing and disappeared overnight.

Edited by jsbt
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I liked Nora and RJ, even as friends. TDS and HBS had great chemistry together, even just as friends/former in-laws. It would have been interesting to see them become a couple. They definitely wouldn't have worked long term, but damn, it would have been fun to see who it pissed of more, Bo, Hank, or Lindsey.

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Was Higley the one who pulled the trigger on RJ and Lindsey?  It was something I had wanted for so long, but the show did nothing fun with them once they actually were a couple.

Edited by TeeVee329

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It was a slight Ross-ening, if you will.

 

I thought it was an Eli-ing? Or - do you mean Ross from Friends?

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The Rossening came first. And we even used that term when it started happening to Eli but then it went so far beyond that it turned into 'getting Eli'ed.'

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Yeah, Eli got Ross-ened but good, but the term started with his brother Ross the previous year. 

 

Other victims of Rossen-ing include Brody and Schuyler.

Edited by TeeVee329

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Wow, lol. Can you guys give me the short version of both of their descents? Thanks. (short for your sake, not mine. If you wanna make it long by all means do so.)

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Dandesun is probably best equipped given both brothers were involved with Blair and Rossen-ed to prop up VicTodd.

 

As for my beloved Schuyler (played by Scott Clifton, if you didn't know), he got Rossen-ed hard to prop up Rex and Gigi. 

 

Poor Schuyler has about the worst day a person can have:

  • He gets drugged by a lunatic (and he's a recovering addict so that's extra not great).
  • Has his baby kidnapped.
  • Is forced to break a psychopath out of jail to get said baby back.
  • Learns his beloved dead mom isn't his mom.
  • Learns a woman who hates him is his mom.
  • Learns that the aforementioned psychopath is his father.
  • Learns that the baby isn't actually his after all.

 

He then loses the plot bad. He lures Gigi to a remote cabin in the woods, trying to recreate the moment where she picked him over Rex.  He pulls a gun on her and intimates that he wants them to have sex.  Awful Rex bursts in and beats the crud out of Schuyler and, when he starts whining about how HIS life is in ruins, Schuyler tries to shoot him.  Beloved commissioner Bo jumped in the way and was critically hurt. 

 

But, despite the horrible day he had had, despite this all being out-of-character behavior, despite him clearly having gone temporarily insane, everybody acted like he was always an unhinged loony ready to snap, the cops shove him around, the one person who offers him support (his new mom Roxy) gets scorn for doing so, and all the sympathy is reserved for Rex and Gigi.

 

And it didn't end there!  On his last day, Schuyler ridiculously pleads guilty instead of pleading temporary insanity after Gigi bursts into his arraignment and his last line of dialogue is telling Rex that "he never had a chance with Gigi", despite all the evidence to the contrary we actually saw on-screen. 

 

GAH!

Edited by TeeVee329
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Okay, I'm not sure how familiar with OLTL you are, ulkis, so forgive me if this is stuff you know.

 

A little background: Todd Manning and Blair Cramer are a particularly tempestuous supercouple. In 2003-ish (I'm bad with dates), they have two kids, Starr and baby Jack. After one of their many nasty breakups, Todd hires ne'er-do-well Ross Rayburn to help him kidnap the kids away from Blair. The plan goes awry - notably because Ross has second thoughts - and he, Todd, and Todd's ex-wife, lawyer Tea Delgado, end up shipwrecked on an island in the South Pacific. Todd is a jerk, hoarding food and lobbing grenades, before having sex with Tea in the surf and sailing away on a raft, leaving Tea and Ross behind to starve to death for all he cared (his sister Viki called the Coast Guard to go rescue them after Todd got home to Llanview).

 

Fast-forward to 2009. Tea has returned to get Todd* off a rape charge (he was guilty, btw) and started a romance with him, while hiding the fact that she had married Ross and has a daughter Dani. Ross (and Dani) believe she's his bio daughter and he has raised her all her life. Tea knows she's actually Todd's daughter, conceived on the island (yet somehow now a teenager older than Jack, who's botched kidnapping is what led them to the island). Ross has also returned, angry with Tea because she stashed Dani in a boarding school where he couldn't see her. Ross is portrayed as charming, laid-back surfer dude type. Roguish, but not violent or dangerous and with a lot of chemistry with Blair, who at the time was inexplicably hung up on Todd again, enlisting Ross's help in (unsuccessfully) stopping Todd and Tea's wedding, and genuinely anguished over the separation from his child.

 

Tea admits Dani's existence to Todd. The writing takes a sharp turn now. Tea claims repeatedly that Ross has a violent temper (he once smashed up a kayak! OMG!), ominous music is played over his scenes, all to prove that Ross is awful and too dangerous to be near Dani, in order to make Todd - a man who had beaten the hell out of various teenagers and once knocked his daughter Starr down a flight of stairs - look better in comparison. This culminates in Ross choking Tea unconscious, and taking Blair and Dani hostage at gunpoint, before being shot off a bridge** by Todd. Thus, a promising, likable character was ruined and a new term was born.

 

*This guy eventually turned out to not actually be Todd Manning, but everyone, including the audience thought so at the time

 

**He came back, only to be murdered by Eli as part of his downfall. Which was even more inexplicable. Someone else can outline that one.

 

ETA: Whew, how many time will I edit this post? Dandesun tells it better.

Edited by Melgaypet
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Why do you want to make me sad, ulkis? Why?

 

Okay. Ross Rayburn was the dude who was stranded on an island 'somewhere in the South Pacific' with Tea and Todd about a year after Jack was born. Blah blah blah Todd had sex with Tea to get her on his side so he could come back and take the kids away from Blair again except having sex with Tea just reminded him how much he actually loved Blair. So he ended up taking the raft that Ross had made out of sticks and twine and paddling ineffectively in the shallow water for a bit before he somehow apparently made it to Fiji. Or was it Guam? Whatever. Meanwhile Ross and Tea stayed behind and got bizay!!

 

Flash-forward to the Not!Todd years when we all still thought he was Todd. After he kidnapped Marty and held her in his house with the horrible cow print rug and raped her again (except she totes wanted it! with amnesia! she didn't know who he was! This was called The Grossening/Rapemance and effectively ruined Todd until Howarth returned and it was revealed that "Todd" was Victor. And Ron insisted that it totally wasn't a romantic story! Why we all hatin'?) Tea returns to Llanview looks at Not!Todd and says 'I'd know you anywhere!' She defends VicTodd successfully and starts engaging in rough, wall-banging, face-slapping sex everywhere.

 

Blair, who had washed her hands of the guy after the Marty reveal, suddenly gets a raging case of 'dog-in-manger' disease and decides she needs to interfere with VicTodd and Tea and does this by discovering that, hey! Tea's actually married! To Ross Rayburn! A kid who is about three years older than Jack shows up and we're told it's the baby that Tea and Todd made on the island eight years before. Even though Dani should be at least a year younger than Jack. And then Ron tells us all on screen through Dani to 'get over it.' (Because nothing is going to get in the way of Ron making sure that his Todd/Tea is the REAL super couple. Yes, it's still annoying!) Ross who raised Dani, was there to 'cut the cord' when Tea gave birth was effectively cut out of Dani's life because Tea decided she was Todd's kid. And with all of this we got stories about Ross' rage and how, even though he never raised a hand to Dani or to Tea, he was a much better option than Todd, who DID knock Tea the fuck out with a raging punch to the face at one point. Ross destroyed a kayak! Oh noes! He's horrible and Todd is clearly the better, more stable option!

 

Then Eli shows up and he's a lawyer. And he's engaging in banter with Tea and is, apparently, into her for some reason no one ever explained properly. But then, after Tea and VicTodd got married, Blair decided she needed to blow off some steam and she did it with Eli. And it was ridiculously fun and hot. (At the same time, VicTodd and Tea were having dreary, true love, goodbye sex because she had to leave him since Dani hated him. Oh! So sad! Mega angst!) So Blair and Eli engage in this wild, hot affair that the audience actually responds positively to. And Ron says 'Blair deserves some happiness' and then proceeds to torpedo it because of reasons.

 

Eli is Ross' brother! Eli actually isn't really named Eli! He actually killed Kelly's mother in California! Why? Because Melinda saw a picture of them in the newspaper... before they started dating... and was going to blow his cover! Or something! Melinda's killer was clearly supposed to be some beau that showed up for Kelly but was such a dud they wrote him off immediately. And then Eli pushed pregnant Marty down the stairs... five minutes after getting out of bed with Blair... to keep McBain preoccupied and stop trying to figure out who killed Kelly's mom. Then it turns out that Eli's some sort of male black widow... marrying rich women and then killing them. Did he love Blair? He seemed to... and then everyone suddenly knew he was bad news but Blair had to be the dupe until they ran off to get married and she got clued in and shot him after he laid a completely inappropriately hot kiss on her after admitting to everything. And then the cabana caught fire so he burned up...  but not completely... and then he and Ross teamed up together to get Dani back! Oh! And Tea was supposed to be dying during this time of cancer!

 

Psyche! Just a clever ruse dreamed up by Eli for Ross to get Dani back. But all of that fell through so he ended up shooting Ross and hoping to pin it on VicTodd! But then he wanted Blair so he kidnapped Starr and Hope to get Blair to go along with it (and then Starr got kidnapped from her own kidnapping and almost buried alive... a whole other thing) and the building that Eli had Tea in (Blair escaped the van and found her and freed her and Tea totally fell weeping into Blair's arms like a sapphic damsel in distress) and that Starr was believed to be in blew up... like they do... and Cole shot Eli who had been apprehended and handcuffed. And that's why Cole went to prison.

 

It was a DOUBLE CLUSTERFUCK!! And I remain infinitely bitter because Todd and Blair and Eli would have been a triangle worth watching. Instead we got lame ass Tomas.

 

This culminated in Ross taking Blair and Dani hostage at gunpoint, before being shot off a bridge* by Todd. Thus, a promising, likable character was ruined and a new term was born.

 

This was a favorite move of Ron's for a good long while. Guy goes nuts over losing child and takes people hostage over it. Usually the child in question and someone else.

 

Also? Blair was consistently saving the day in these situations but always got overlooked and dismissed by the likes of Tea and Not!Todd... who then completely ousted her in regards to Jack. And then blamed her for it when she was the only one who was horrified by his actions and did anything to curtail his behavior.

 

It was dark times for a Blair fan, let me tell you.

Edited by Dandesun
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(he once smashed up a kayak! OMG!),

 

That poor kayak!  Ross, you monster! #eyeroll

 

I'm pretty sure during that first run of Ross-ening that Ross also attacked Tea.  And he maybe tried to rape Blair?

 

Dandesun, don't forget that Eli always sorta-maybe talked Layla and her mom into pulling the plug on Evangeline Williamson, a character who has a...um...enthusiastic fan base.  It was a pointless two-week diversion in the middle of the summer of teens, Teens, TEENS that threw even more evil paint on Evil.

Edited by TeeVee329
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I was fine with that part of it. Evangeline wasn't coming back. And then Eli did the most evil thing of all:

 

He failed to kill Rex AND Ford when he had the chance.

 

The point is, that the Rossening was throwing a character with potential completely under the bus to salvage Not!Todd after the Rapemance thoroughly destroyed the character. (For some... the sheer amount of Todd/Marty fanfic says that some people really really love that pairing... although it does tend to be one person... but anyway...) Then Eli started to get Rossened but then it became so ridiculous where they literally pinned every. single. bad thing that happened in Llanview over the course of a YEAR onto Eli... it needed a new term.

 

Getting Eli'ed.

 

And it still makes me sad. *sob!* Eli!!

Edited by Dandesun
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I was fine with that part of it. Evangeline wasn't coming back. And then Eli did the most evil thing of all:

 

He failed to kill Rex AND Ford when he had the chance.

 

Oh, I didn't really care about Vange (I was more annoyed at what a dumb story it ended up being for Cristian and Layla), but she has her fans and that was a very deliberate move by Ron to turn even more viewers against the character.

 

But yes, him not murdering Rex AND Ford given the opportunities he had (that day he spent monologuing to Rex's unconscious body...GRRR!) was unforgiveable.

Edited by TeeVee329

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I was fine with that part of it. Evangeline wasn't coming back. And then Eli did the most evil thing of all:

 

He failed to kill Rex AND Ford when he had the chance.

 

Truly the most horrific of his crimes.

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Todd is a jerk, hoarding food and lobbing grenades, before having sex with Tea in the surf and sailing away on a raft

 

 

This sounds hilarious.

 

Fast-forward to 2009. Tea has returned to get Todd* off a rape charge (he was guilty, btw)

 

 

Was this the Marty/Todd sex that Ron claims wasn't rape?

 

Flash-forward to the Not!Todd years when we all still thought he was Todd. After he kidnapped Marty and held her in his house with the horrible cow print rug and raped her again (except she totes wanted it! with amnesia! she didn't know who he was! This was called The Grossening/Rapemance and effectively ruined Todd until Howarth returned and it was revealed that "Todd" was Victor. And Ron insisted that it totally wasn't a romantic story! Why we all hatin'?) Tea returns to Llanview looks at Not!Todd and says 'I'd know you anywhere!' She defends VicTodd successfully and starts engaging in rough, wall-banging, face-slapping sex everywhere.

 

I see that it was.

 

Eli is Ross' brother! Eli actually isn't really named Eli! He actually killed Kelly's mother in California! Why? Because Melinda saw a picture of them in the newspaper... before they started dating... and was going to blow his cover! Or something! Melinda's killer was clearly supposed to be some beau that showed up for Kelly but was such a dud they wrote him off immediately. And then Eli pushed pregnant Marty down the stairs... five minutes after getting out of bed with Blair... to keep McBain preoccupied and stop trying to figure out who killed Kelly's mom. Then it turns out that Eli's some sort of male black widow... marrying rich women and then killing them.

 

Oh man, I teared up from laughter.

 

Wait, I'm a little confused - Ross faked Tea's cancer to get back Dani? At first I thought he must be a doctor then but I looked at the recap and he's a lawyer, did he bribe a doctor or something?

 

That poor kayak!  Ross, you monster! #eyeroll

 

 

I do like kayaks. What a bastard!

 

He failed to kill Rex AND Ford when he had the chance.

 

You know that's just wrong when I, who didn't even watch OLTL, know that's wrong.

 

Thanks guys. I appreciate being distracted/entertained from my fangirl feels.

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Wait, I'm a little confused - Ross faked Tea's cancer to get back Dani? At first I thought he must be a doctor then but I looked at the recap and he's a lawyer, did he bribe a doctor or something?

 

Eli blackmailed a doctor named Greg "A Brain Is Not A Foot" Evans into helping him fake Tea's cancer diagnosis. 

 

Somehow, Eli knew that Greg a) was actually the father of his "little sister" Destiny because he b) slept with his brother Shaun's girlfriend while Shaun was in jail and then c) accidentally killed her.

 

The Greg stuff all came out in one episode.  In his next appearance, Greg was sentenced and swiftly gone from the canvas.  Ron reRon-ed quite a bit of it for TJ and Shawn's exit.

 

Hilariously looking back to the months prior, Greg broke up with his girlfriend Rachel because she was supportive of Schuyler, who Greg thought was morally shady.  Oh Dr. Pot, you were definitely calling the kettle black on that one.

Edited by TeeVee329
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Thanks guys. I appreciate being distracted/entertained from my fangirl feels.

 

Yeah, you're going through some stuff, ulkis. So sorry that Ron decided to turn his attention to Dante/Lulu and, more importantly, Dante's integrity.

 

The things Ron did to Blair... let's just say I feel you. I feel you big time.

 

Yeah, TeeVee329 brings up the magic that was Greg Evans. "The doctor awoke before dawn... he put his scrubs on... he took a slide from the X-ray machinery and... he flailed on down the hall!" Oh, and I also have to recall that Eli, after the cabana fire, wheezed and croaked out the exposition for this ridiculous, convoluted, totally made up on the fly scheme to Greg for some reason while he was plotting to come back to Llanview and get Blair back and so on and so forth.

 

And let's not forget that when the initial shit was going down with Eli, Ron insisted that this was the plan all along but then confessed towards the end of the run that Eli was a last minute fall guy because, for some strange reason, the audience really wanted to know who pushed Marty down the stairs.

 

Fuckin' Ron.

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And let's not forget that when the initial shit was going down with Eli, Ron insisted that this was the plan all along but then confessed towards the end of the run that Eli was a last minute fall guy because, for some strange reason, the audience really wanted to know who pushed Marty down the stairs.

 

Yup.  I felt so vindicated when he FINALLY admitted that his being forced to axe Kyle, Fish, and Schuyler left him with a story hole that he had to fill and that Marty going down the stairs (though, I have no doubt she was always going to lose that baby) was it.  His insistences prior that it was his master plan to destroy Eli all along were such horseshit.

Edited by TeeVee329
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Yeah, you're going through some stuff, ulkis. So sorry that Ron decided to turn his attention to Dante/Lulu and, more importantly, Dante's integrity.

 

At least the USA women's team won the game yesterday, heh. I tuned in and my jaw dropped when I saw it was 4-0 at 16 minutes.

 

Ron should watch a few world cups, they could teach him a thing or two about soapiness.

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Blair decided she needed to blow off some steam and she did it with Eli. And it was ridiculously fun and hot.

 

So hot. They had Kassie wear these wrap dresses so Eli could peel Blair like a grape before the sexing started. It was great.

 

it became so ridiculous where they literally pinned every. single. bad thing that happened in Llanview over the course of a YEAR onto Eli... it needed a new term.

 

We used to joke on TWOP that Eli was worse than Hitler, Pol Pot, and Stalin combined.

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And let's not forget that when the initial shit was going down with Eli, Ron insisted that this was the plan all along but then confessed towards the end of the run that Eli was a last minute fall guy because, for some strange reason, the audience really wanted to know who pushed Marty down the stairs.

 

That was such obvious nonsense - especially since there was a perfectly plausible stair-pusher in crazy Hannah.

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So hot. They had Kassie wear these wrap dresses so Eli could peel Blair like a grape before the sexing started. It was great.

 

Meanwhile, VicTodd was moping around in his pajamas, heh.

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At least the USA women's team won the game yesterday, heh. I tuned in and my jaw dropped when I saw it was 4-0 at 16 minutes.

 

Ron should watch a few world cups, they could teach him a thing or two about soapiness.

 

The women's team was all over it yesterday. Carli Lloyd's third goal bomb from midfield was a thing of beauty. I couldn't believe I was seeing it as it happened. No one was beating them yesterday. No one. It was rather like Germany kicking the crap out of Brazil last year. In some ways, I loved the Germany win so much more... but the US yesterday was magnificent. Loved every moment of it. I do love that out of the 7 goals scored yesterday, we scored 6.

 

So hot. They had Kassie wear these wrap dresses so Eli could peel Blair like a grape before the sexing started. It was great.

 

They had such chemistry. It was fun and hot and first and then he actually started to give a damn about her. Remember when he walked in and she just said 'hold me' and he did? How long had it been since someone was that nice to Blair? If Eli had been with Blair when Roger's Todd came back her uncertainty would have made all kinds of sense. That they wrote Tomas as being the one who handed Todd over to Irene and her people and then have everyone in Llanview excuse him but Blair being the first to do so was beyond the pale. Blair would never have accepted Tomas after finding that out about him. She may have tried to understand but she would not have continued a relationship with him.

 

Todd was everything to her and it wasn't just her that it affected, it affected her kids as well and we know Blair doesn't forgive that shit lightly, Or at all.

 

That was such obvious nonsense - especially since there was a perfectly plausible stair-pusher in crazy Hannah.

 

Hannah was perfect for that role! Marty going to bat for her repeatedly would have made it that much harder. I mean, it was already being shown that Marty was a horrible, horrible psychiatrist... that should have come back to bite her in the ass.

 

Meanwhile, VicTodd was moping around in his pajamas, heh.

 

I remember... I think it was Serial Drama doing the recap for that episode and the comment 'Doesn't Todd look hot in his sweat pants?'

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Tomas as being the one who handed Todd over to Irene and her people

 

That wasn't the original plan, though, was it? I thought they changed course with Tomas because they got RoHo back and Ron could finally do his beloved Two Todds story. And of course, once RoHo returned, poor Ted King got the shaft worse than he did when he was on GH.

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Was Higley the one who pulled the trigger on RJ and Lindsey?  It was something I had wanted for so long, but the show did nothing fun with them once they actually were a couple.

 

Yes, which means I missed it because I bye bitched the show once Al, Max and Gabrielle were gone for a long, LONG time. I would've watched RJ & Lindsay. :'( 

Edited by UYI
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That wasn't the original plan, though, was it? I thought they changed course with Tomas because they got RoHo back and Ron could finally do his beloved Two Todds story. And of course, once RoHo returned, poor Ted King got the shaft worse than he did when he was on GH.

 

I think the cancellation also affected things.  Ron clearly had more (probably stupid) story planned with Tomas' ex Yvette and his son Baz that got cut to make way for the endgame stories.

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Yeah, I'm way late, but I just wanted to reiterate how much that Eli bullshit pissed me off. Ron insisted the Eli Clarke, Evil Supervillain reveal had been "planned all along," but once the show got cancelled he admitted in the press that it was a bullshit stopgap measure - 'we needed a Friday cliffhanger, and we figured, why not push Marty down the stairs? But we had no idea who could've done it.' I'm paraphrasing, but that is almost exactly what he said. Raise your hands if it reminds you of his attempted lie about Fluke/Eckert, which Tony Geary outed him on.

 

There is a funny bit in Jeff Giles' OLTL oral history book (Llanview in the Afternoon, now on Amazon!) where Bob Woods (Bo Buchanan) remembers being baffled by Eli's sudden face turn. "Did you drink some bad water or something?"

 

The thing was, they were never able to pull Victor/Todd back from the rapemance with Marty, though they tried so, so hard to gloss it over and make anyone else the heavy - Victor was having kinky, wild sex with Téa within six months of the rape, played for laughs and summer fun. They tried to make us feel for him when he jumped off a roof because Marty wouldn't be his New Year's Eve date, then they tried to use the kids, then they had him help Marty recover her memory at the KAD house - nothing worked. And when people responded to Michael Lowry as Ross, well, Ross suddenly became a dangerous man who beat up kayaks. They eventually walked that back, though, a couple months later - Ross was revealed to be alive and well, and was used to urge Dani (and the audience) to accept Victor. "Hey, we know you guys liked Ross, so here he is, alive! Do as he says!" Then, of course, during the Eli debacle, he came back again as Billy Warlock and got killed off.

 

They pinned every fucking random, pointless crime and subplot on the show on Eli, because they literally had no idea what the fuck they were doing that year. Téa's cancer? Eli! Ford's beating? Eli! Marty's fall? Eli! Melinda's death? Eli! (Clearly a big rewrite because, as others said, the actor they cast as Kelly's old British flame Reed was dreadful - and Reed was clearly the original culprit, in a story featuring Kevin Buchanan which could've actually interested me.) I also don't think anyone's mentioned that according to Dr. Greg, his girlfriend died from tripping on the carpet.

 

Blair got fucked and fucked again with these new love interests, and then they brought in Ted King as Tomas, but all of them, even Tomas, were clearly all just the writers marking time. The token romances and disinterest is something Ron has perfected since at GH, but the thing that's obvious now is that he didn't care about any of those - he was just waiting until he could secure Roger Howarth as Todd. Plot was all, and after the early purge of all the gays and minorities in the spring, 2010 was a very bad year for OLTL. For me, though 2009 was certainly full of flaws and the trouble began with the rapemance in '08, 2010 is when the rot really began to set in, with the Fords, the contempt for the audience with the Eli debacle, etc., and while the show had good times and bad going forward, Ron Carlivati was definitely never the same.

Edited by jsbt
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Okay, I'm not sure how familiar with OLTL you are, ulkis, so forgive me if this is stuff you know.

 

A little background: Todd Manning and Blair Cramer are a particularly tempestuous supercouple. In 2003-ish (I'm bad with dates)

 

 

The South Pacific stuff was actually the summer of 2002. I feel bad saying that because I actually AM good with dates*, and I always feel so obnoxious doing stuff like this! I'm sorry!

 

*I was 13, so I remember watching the show that particular summer very well, even though T&B were second to my (vain) M&G hopes. :)

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The South Pacific stuff was actually the summer of 2002. I feel bad saying that because I actually AM good with dates*, and I always feel so obnoxious doing stuff like this! I'm sorry!

 

*I was 13, so I remember watching the show that particular summer very well, even though T&B were second to my (vain) M&G hopes. :)

 

Don't feel bad, when you're as terrible with dates as I am, you get used to people correcting you and learn to appreciate it. I remember now: Dead Baby Lie reveal happened during Live Week, May 2002, which led right into the attempted kidnapping and the Island Somewhere in the South Pacific during the summer. It was February 2003 when the Storm of Change or whatever that was called came - Malone's return and Al being the Voice of the Night and Mitch's reign of terror and eventually Todd ending up in Victor Lord's crypt.

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Just went back to watch this, which is from October of 2003 after Al died the month before. I think there were some clear edits here, lines that were cut off. Ack, why did they get crapped on so badly? DAMN YOU MALONE. :'(

 

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You know what Ron wanted as they were trying to get Howarth back. He wanted a Todd-Tea-Victor triangle while he shunted Blair and Tomas off to the side. He was certainly happy to ignore them for weeks at a time because they were not a priority.

 

Did Ted King get the shaft? Well, yeah, he did. But he was always going to a part of the Todd story that Ron was fashioning whether they got Howarth back or not. His introduction was based on the painting of Blair at her golden balloon wedding to Todd. That wasn't a mistake and it was well before cancellation and Howarth's return. Ted King got screwed over more by Ron's Delgado fetish and cancellation than anything Howarth did.

 

But Ron didn't get what he wanted with Howarth because Howarth came back to do Todd and Blair. Ron tried to have it both ways by flinging Tea at him repeatedly so she could get all up in his face and shriek about how he didn't fuck her and shoving Blair off to the side for three weeks after he revealed himself to the pertinent parties at the Vickerman premier. Now, granted, there were all sorts of weird things going on behind the scenes with PP and going online but then not going online and then resurrecting again and that did cause some problems with story but too many different sources from too many places behind the scenes were in agreement as to what RoHo wanted when he came back. And he was still pretty much able to dictate things at that point. Plus, the way he played things out on screen... especially in comparison to 2002-3. A world of difference.

 

The real shame was that Ted King ended up having some pretty awesome chemistry with Florencia Lozano and I recall we kept coming up with ways for them not to be related so they could totally get it on. Hell, even their picture in that People issue was all smoldering chemistry oozing all over the place. Ron spent too much time trying to squeeze everything he could out of Tea and Todd and throwing Tomas at Blair as some ridiculous obstacle that made no sense. There were better ways to handle all of that but, by that time, Ron had used up all of his markers with me. I didn't trust him as far as I could throw an elephant.

 

And I'm quite wee so that's not far.

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I have to say, even though I'm definitely a fan of T&B, there could be some great TNT scenes/acting from RoHo and FloLo, including in their two most infamous scenes: the snowstorm scene where he throws out after she strips naked for him, and of course, the scene where he punches her in the face. I'm amazed that latter ever aired to begin with. Did JFP and/or ABC get in trouble at all for it? 

 

 

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See, that's the thing; I never saw an indication of Ron going for a Todd/Téa/Victor triangle. I thought he had very clearly set up each woman getting "a Todd," and I thought he had clearly already plotted out the August reveal from the moment he introduced Blair's painting, the old photograph, etc. at the beginning of 2011. That was a huge moment that dovetailed too well to not be the planned payoff of an arc. That was what the whole point of that endless build-up and rambling about was - it was all leading to another one of Ron's Big Moments, where the real Todd pulls out the old photograph the painting that started the whole mess came from, and shows it to Blair.

 

And it was a great moment, and it was spectacularly executed. The problem, as was by then becoming a regular issue with Ron and is now very commonplace on GH, was that the road to that big beat, and everything after, was deeply flawed. Trevor St. John (Victor/"Todd II", for the newbies in the audience) had opted to leave the show, and Frank and Ron chosen to spin their wheels and waste time til the big August reveal, so they had only about four weeks to play out the entire "Two Todds" mystery onscreen, which is not what they'd originally planned. But that was their choice and their gamble, and their failure.

 

I do think Ron always, always intended to keep Téa very central. She was very important to him, establishing her primacy was important to him, and I expect that if they'd kept both Todds around longer they would've had both women, both Blair and Téa, bouncing back and forth between them, probably romantically, for ages (even though I personally never would believe Blair would ever be torn between Todd and Victor after what the latter had put her through over the previous eight years). But I think RC had signposted his ultimate, final destination for both women from the beginning and with TSJ gone, he was basically stuck playing around only that. I'm not sure he was ever that invested in Tomas. Tomas was just a stalking horse for an easy triangle or quadrangle, a plot device, like so many men on GH today. It doesn't matter how implausible it is that something would happen, it will happen because Plot demands it.

 

RC gave Téa the lion's share of scenes with RH-Todd early on because he loved the actors together, because he had it bad for Todd and Téa and because he knew she would be hamstrung soon enough with Victor's exit, and he hadn't planned better story for her afterwards because he and FV had barely planned for TSJ leaving at all (again, GH fans may find this familiar). Yes, I felt there were times he gave the Todd and Blair stuff up to the audience grudgingly. But I didn't see any sign of him not doing it, or pulling for a Todd and Téa romance onscreen. He kept them intimate in the antipathy between them, but he didn't go for a romance angle. He did everything he could do short of that, though, and he clearly had his POV about it. And he was already starting to set up a triangle with Téa, McBain and Natalie by the end - with McBain almost certainly intended as the Patrick Thornhart to Victor's Todd, and pregnant Téa's pregnant Blair.

Edited by jsbt
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Plot was all, and after the early purge of all the gays and minorities in the spring, 2010 was a very bad year for OLTL. For me, though 2009 was certainly full of flaws and the trouble began with the rapemance in '08, 2010 is when the rot really began to set in, with the Fords, the contempt for the audience with the Eli debacle, etc., and while the show had good times and bad going forward, Ron Carlivati was definitely never the same.

 

So much word.

 

Obviously, I was always going to be operating from a place of bitterness after April 2010, after Rachel, Kim, Schuyler, Fish, and Kyle vanished from the canvas.

 

But starting with the musical, the rest of the year was awful, especially the summer.  Recall the summer of teens ,Teens, TEENS with the two most talented younger cast members (Matthew and Markko) underused or vilified in favor of the Fords.  Recall the Fords themselves, with one annoying, whiny plastic member of the family cropping up every day.  Recall Rex thinking he was a Hopi Indian and teaching Shane about their heritage.  Recall the juvenile shenanigans Viki, Charlie, Dorian, and David were reduced to.  Recall how aggressively boring Kelly was.  Recall Natalie following McBain back to the LPD.  Recall how little anybody else - Roxy, Clint, Cris and Layla - got to do.  And, of course, as we've been discussing, recall the ruin of Eli.

 

Just bad, baaad times.

Edited by TeeVee329
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Tomas' ex Yvette and his son Baz

 

Oh, god, I forgot all about Yvette and Baz. Terrible, terrible stuff.

 

Reed was clearly the original culprit

 

With Vase as the weapon, I believe. Another in the long line of Late, Lamented Inanimate Objects. See also: Chandelier. RIP, my precious.

Edited by dubbel zout

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Baz kind of looked like a wannabe Bruno Mars. I remember liking him a little, but not enough where I wanted him there during the last few months of the show.

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Oh, god, I forgot all about Yvette and Baz. Terrible, terrible stuff.

 

It made no sense.  Tomas was married to Yvette and knew about Baz, but somehow didn't know Baz was his son?  How does that even work?

 

And the story with Starr was the worst because it was literally word-for-word the same story they did the previous summer - newcomer (James/Baz) comes to town, he annoys Starr at first with his attitude, but she warms up to him, her boyfriend (Cole/James) becomes jealous, etc., etc.

Edited by TeeVee329
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It made no sense.  Tomas was married to Yvette and knew about Baz, but somehow didn't know Baz was his son?  How does that even work?

 

Yvette had known that Tomas was a dangerous man, so she lied to Tomas and said that she'd had an affair and that the man with whom she'd "had an affair" was Baz's father.

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