S04.E05: Quite A Ride

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Quote

Jimmy identifies a new market for his talents; Mike vets a potential partnership; Kim drives a hard bargain.

[Shriekingeel]

A thoroughly entertaining episode with lots of classic Jimmy/Saul antics. 

 

Kim with the O BABY WHAT IS YOU DOING moment with her passive aggressive attempt to get herself fired from MV. Not sure why she’s doing that. 

 

Loved the symbolism of Saul literally slicing up/gutting the law in the flash forward. 

 

Why was the first SuperLab architect rejected?

[WritinMan]

Holy crap--that was a fantastic episode! Loved the cold open.

1 minute ago, Shriekingeel said:

Why was the first SuperLab architect rejected?

Because nothing about him showed that he cared enough about the job to do it properly. The other guy was concerned about all the little details.

[Primetimer]

But only indirectly, as Mike brings his tradecraft to project management, Kim rebels, and Jimmy's entrepreneurship takes a hit in our EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of S04.E05.

View the full article

[Starchild]

2 minutes ago, Shriekingeel said:

Why was the first SuperLab architect rejected?

I think they knew he was giving an unrealistic estimate.

[benteen]

Great episode.  Loved the cold opening bringing us back to the BB era and the last days of Saul Goodman.  Enjoyed seeing the origins of the meth lab too.  I've always liked the way BB and BCS shoots scenes, picks locations and even utilizes colors.  Great seeing Jimmy starting to work his old cons.  Didn't expect those three punks to return.  Jimmy definitely should have followed through with the therapist, despite Howard not being a great example of their work.

[thuganomics85]

I'm pretty sure this was the first time we actually got a scene with "Saul", since the other flash-forwards is when he's under his new identity.  Fun seeing a glimpse of what he was doing when everything was going to shit for Walter and the rest of the Breaking Bad gang.  Should have known that Saul would have money stashed away and was pretty much prepared for anything.

Figured something was going to mess up Jimmy's operation, but I liked that it wasn't the biker gang, but those teenage punks that he didn't account for.  I do wonder if we'll see them again.  It would be kind of ironic if he ends up representing them as Saul somewhere down the line.

Oh, Kim!  She's is so going to blow her Mesa Verde job by prioritizing these other cases instead.  I get that she's more passionate about that style of law and that's not a bad thing, but I worry that her burning this bridge could have major consequences for her.

Of course, Gus would be that freaking thorough about who they hire to create the underground meth lab!  Mike's reactions and indifferent responses were great as always.

Damn, Howard looks rough!  I worry for him. 

Kind of missed Nacho, but I'm also kind of relieved that he got a break since he's pretty much been put through the ringer anytime he appears.

[peeayebee]

Man, I'm worried about Howard. I don't foresee a good end for him. It's sad that Jimmy is so oblivious as to what's "eating" Howard.

I think I need a tidy explanation for how Jimmy's covering his tracks at the cell phone store. I believe he printed a bunch of phony receipts, then he loaded the cash register with money. So, I assume he was charging more for the phones to make a profit. Is that about right? Oh, and seeing that car bouncing around made me think Tuco was inside. :D

Kim would really do much better with individual clients than a big corporation. At least that's how it looks to me. She seems to get a lot of satisfaction from interacting with people, and she's good at it.

Loved the scenes with Mike in the van and at the laundry. I was surprised when the first guy was dismissed. I thought he came off well, but I suppose Gus doesn't like people who are unrealistically overconfident. Love that the other guy was so low-tech. I have no idea how he's going to accomplish this job.

The flash-forward with Saul and... the receptionist, whose name escapes me, was great. Do we know what was in the box behind the wall?

[Blakeston]

In addition to the first candidate being overly optimistic, it couldn't have helped his case that he blabbed details about a different criminal project. Gus is nothing if not discreet.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Man, I'm worried about Howard. I don't foresee a good end for him. It's sad that Jimmy is so oblivious as to what's "eating" Howard.

I think I need a tidy explanation for how Jimmy's covering his tracks at the cell phone store. I believe he printed a bunch of phony receipts, then he loaded the cash register with money. So, I assume he was charging more for the phones to make a profit. Is that about right? Oh, and seeing that car bouncing around made me think Tuco was inside. :D

Kim would really do much better with individual clients than a big corporation. At least that's how it looks to me. She seems to get a lot of satisfaction from interacting with people, and she's good at it.

Loved the scenes with Mike in the van and at the laundry. I was surprised when the first guy was dismissed. I thought he came off well, but I suppose Gus doesn't like people who are unrealistically overconfident. Love that the other guy was so low-tech. I have no idea how he's going to accomplish this job.

The flash-forward with Saul and... the receptionist, whose name escapes me, was great. Do we know what was in the box behind the wall?

The receptionist is Francesca.  I believe the shoebox is the box of memorabilia we see Gene open up in the flash forward of episode 101.  It contained some old photos,  a passport, the Band Aid box that he kept his childhood coin collection in and the VHS tape of Saul Goodman ads.

[Starchild]

51 minutes ago, PreviouslyTV said:

But only indirectly, as Mike brings his tradecraft to project management, Kim rebels, and Jimmy's entrepreneurship takes a hit in our EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of S04.E05.

View the full article

To the question of the point of Howard's scene in the bathroom:

I believe, based on his half-whispered "What's wrong with me?", that Jimmy really intended to see that shrink. The main purpose of the scene with Howard was to reinforce Jimmy's doubts that a shrink could help him. Of course it also helped show the different ways these guys are processing the guilt over Chuck's death: one man knows exactly what's bothering him and is trying to face it and deal with it, while the other is in complete denial. When it finally breaks through, Jimmy's reaction will be a lot worse than insomnia.

[Bryce Lynch]

I wonder:

a) Who is the lawyer Saul told Francesca to call?

b) Why did he want her to be at the payphone on November 12th at 3:00 PM? That would be about 8 months later.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Shriekingeel said:

Why was the first SuperLab architect rejected?

 

1 hour ago, WritinMan said:

Because nothing about him showed that he cared enough about the job to do it properly. The other guy was concerned about all the little details.

This.  Plus, I think the final straw was his displayed lack of discretion when he spoke about the tunnel he had previously built.

5 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

a) Who is the lawyer Saul told Francesca to call?

b) Why did he want her to be at the payphone on November 12th at 3:00 PM? That would be about 8 months later.

Good question but I did notice he told her to tell him (did they specify a gender?) that Jimmy sent her.  And your part b is certainly an intriguing tease.  I wonder if they actually have a plan or if they're writing themselves into a corner that they're going to have to answer.

[MrWhyt]

16 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

In addition to the first candidate being overly optimistic, it couldn't have helped his case that he blabbed details about a different criminal project. Gus is nothing if not discreet.

I think this was the #1 reason why he was rejected.

[Quilt Fairy]

34 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Man, I'm worried about Howard. I don't foresee a good end for him. It's sad that Jimmy is so oblivious as to what's "eating" Howard.

I think Jimmy knows exactly what is eating Howard, and he's reveling in it. 

25 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think I need a tidy explanation for how Jimmy's covering his tracks at the cell phone store. I believe he printed a bunch of phony receipts, then he loaded the cash register with money. So, I assume he was charging more for the phones to make a profit. Is that about right?

I did not think about him charging more for the phones than he paid for them, but now that you've mentioned it I think it's quite likely.  I did feel that at some point he was going to get robbed, because it was obvious that these were all strictly cash transactions.

[benteen]

Yeah, I also thought that Jimmy was charging more for the phones than we he spent "buying" them.  He was covering his tracks with that.

[WritinMan]

31 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

 

This.  Plus, I think the final straw was his displayed lack of discretion when he spoke about the tunnel he had previously built.

 

Right. He shouldn't be talking about other jobs.

[LittleIggy]

1 hour ago, WritinMan said:

Holy crap--that was a fantastic episode! Loved the cold open.

Because nothing about him showed that he cared enough about the job to do it properly. The other guy was concerned about all the little details.

Yeah, and the first guy was like “easy-peasy, no problem.” Gus is no fool. He knows that is not an easy project.

Fun seeing Saul in the opening. 

Wow, Howard with his tie undone and collar open (which he didn’t fix before leaving the restroom). He really is in rough shape.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

If Kim doesn't want to work for Mesa Verde any more, that is fine but she owes it to them to be upfront about it. I don't care for this long suffering bleeding heart route they are taking her.

If she wants to play hero to the little people, that is fine. But her old friend gave her the benefit of the doubt and trusted her with this huge account when she needed a morale boost. They are not the bad guys just because she decided to grow a conscious or whatever it is that is going on with her 

 

I like Howard, I hope he doesn't meet a tragic end. Chuck is not worth all the guilt and heartache. He was a pretty rotten man and caused the most harm to himself. Howard could've kicked him out of the firm a long time and he certainly didn't have to take care of him years after he became incapacitated.

[shapeshifter]

Did the punks get all the money Jimmy made that night? If so, bummer.
ETA: Not feeling so bad now that I read on the Spec & Chat thread that Jimmy probably used the stolen Hummel money to buy the phones, so, "what goes around comes around."

 

So Kim is kind of aware that she's screwing up the Mesa Verde situation, but not entirely conscious of what she's doing, right?

 

I can't help but think--knowing Gus's ultimate end and his propensity for cruel violence as well as the depravity of his entire business venture--that ultimately it made no difference which guy got the lab building contract. It's kind of a neatly wrapped lesson of the universal law of everything.
And now I'm recalling my ex husband frequently saying "mox nix," from the German for "it doesn't matter" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mox_nix ).

 

2 hours ago, benteen said:

Jimmy definitely should have followed through with the therapist, despite Howard not being a great example of their work.

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

The main purpose of the scene with Howard was to reinforce Jimmy's doubts that a shrink could help him.

Yes, Howard did serve as a reinforcement to Jimmy's preconceived notion that a shrink would be a waste of time (not to mention a security risk), but, also, this was in the early 00s, right? Shrinks were still not very effective then. It wasn't really until HMO plans for employees began to include mental health coverage and demand to see results in a limited number of visits that structured programs like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and Mindfulness began to replace freeform "talk" sessions that were often not particularly helpful and were frequently just a prerequisite to see a psychiatrist for medications that often had more unwanted side effects than any positive effects.

Edited September 4, 2018 by shapeshifter

[ahmerali]

I have a feeling that Jimmy is going to get his revenge on the punks. Maybe not the money, but his revenge.

Trying to figure out who the other lawyer might be or what the Francesca phone call is about. One thing I can say for sure is that the opening scene does not follow right after the scene where Jesse attacks Saul in BB....Saul and Francesca are wearing different clothes. So it's a different day.

Also according to the Breaking Bad timeline, Saul uses the Disappearer on March 15th, by the time Francesca makes that phone call in November, Walter White will already be dead....trying to find the significance of that date, and can't yet...I'm still speculating strongly that Kim will use the Disappearer first, maybe on November 12th of the coming year....

[Auntie Anxiety]

Great to see both Saul’s office (although I would have been even more thrilled to see an outside shot with faux Lady Liberty) and the space before the meth lab became the meth lab. Was like seeing old friends.

Poor Kim. Looks like Mesa Verde is a millstone around her neck. She really can’t walk away from the bank, not after all that Jimmy (and she) went through to keep the client. And what happened to Kim’s cute and perky ponytail? Maybe once her arm heals....

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I think the scene on the couch where Jimmy talked of how he used to be a "tough guy" and Kim affirming him now was a major clue as to Kim's new career motivation:  Kim was a Jimmy in her youth.  This is why he is attractive to her and it explains why she keeps giving him chances.  Her speech about giving youngins a last chance to make something of themselves sounded like a recall of her youth.  How on earth is a Denise so important to Kim?  Kim was more invested in Denise than Denise was in herself.  Because she was a Denise.

Tic Tacs!  What a great call back that was.  My friend used to gobble those things up in unreal amounts.  So many did.

Lane messed up?!  Who caught it?  If the person who caught it knew there was an "it,", why SUCH a big deal for Kim to fix it?  The person who caught it would already know what was wrong.  Or s/he would not have caught "it."

I liked how Jimmy made a straight and legal purchase of the phones.  No PPD issues!  And he gets credit for making the sales.  :)  

The musical montage was so dang cool.  It took me to one of my favorite scam movies of all time - Jackie Brown.  The music used was prominent in that movie, which had several absolutely iconic tunes.  Loved that homage.  Totally made my day.  I had never considered such a connection. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by Lonesome Rhodes

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I think the scene on the couch where Jimmy talked of how he used to be a "tough guy" and Kim affirming him now was a major clue as to Kim's new career motivation:  Kim was a Jimmy in her youth.  This is why he is attractive to her and it explains why she keeps giving him chances.  Her speech about giving youngins a last chance to make something of themselves sounded like a recall of her youth. 

Also: Kim rightfully claims that giving a young vandal probation gives him a "second chance," whereas incarceration likely turns him into a gangster.
This is mirrored by Jimmy, who, although not incarcerated, is banned from practicing law, which seems to be putting him in league with illegals outlaws just as much as if he was in jail or prison.

Both the kid (David?) and Jimmy are going to be criminals anyway.

Edited September 4, 2018 by shapeshifter
"illegals" is not a noun meaning "those involved in illegal enterprise"

[FortKnox]

Yeah Jimmy is going to get those punks back. He's going to get Mike on them and since they did something to Jimmy, mugging him and taking his money, Mike will take the case.

Someone needs to refresh me here. The last time we saw Saul on BB was when he was getting ready to get his new ID and Walt was trying to force him to help fight Uncle Jack and crew. But, what did we see Saul doing before that scene?

And that date, November 21 right? I guess we find what happens then at the start of next season with Gene.

Edited September 4, 2018 by FortKnox

[AuntiePam]

It'd be cool if the lawyer Francesca calls on November 12 is Kim. 

[DangerousMinds]

57 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Also: Kim rightfully claims that giving a young vandal probation gives him a "second chance," whereas incarceration likely turns him into a gangster.
This is mirrored by Jimmy, who, although not incarcerated, is banned from practicing law, which seems to be putting him in league with illegals just as much as if he was in jail or prison.

Both the kid (David?) and Jimmy are going to be criminals anyway.

Illegals?

1 hour ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I think the scene on the couch where Jimmy talked of how he used to be a "tough guy" and Kim affirming him now was a major clue as to Kim's new career motivation:  Kim was a Jimmy in her youth.  This is why he is attractive to her and it explains why she keeps giving him chances.  Her speech about giving youngins a last chance to make something of themselves sounded like a recall of her youth.  How on earth is a Denise so important to Kim?  Kim was more invested in Denise than Denise was in herself.  Because she was a Denise.

Tic Tacs!  What a great call back that was.  My friend used to gobble those things up in unreal amounts.  So many did.

Lane messed up?!  Who caught it?  If the person who caught it knew there was an "it,", why SUCH a big deal for Kim to fix it?  The person who caught it would already know what was wrong.  Or s/he would not have caught "it."

I liked how Jimmy made a straight and legal purchase of the phones.  No PPD issues!  And he gets credit for making the sales.  :)  

The musical montage was so dang cool.  It took me to one of my favorite scam movies of all time - Jackie Brown.  The music used was prominent in that movie, which had several absolutely iconic tunes.  Loved that homage.  Totally made my day.  I had never considered such a connection. 

I disagree that Kim had to have been a Denise in her own youth. I definitely was not, but I certainly care more about the Denises of the world than any big bank.

[PeterPirate]

I think the cold open ties in with the end of the episode.  At the end Jimmy is talking about how great his law practice is going to be with Kim after his ppd is over, and the cold open shows the very end of that practice.  So, yeah, I think November 12 will be when Kim re-arrives.  

I found it interesting that Kim knew that Jimmy had been at the Dog House.  I now have to think that Kim's foray into the criminal justice system ties in with Jimmy's nefarious business endeavors.  Kim has turned to the Dark Side.  The most appropriate forerunner for her is Anakin Skywalker.   

This is a 180 turnaround from what I thought after the last episode.  This show does like to mess with the mind, that it does.  

Edited September 5, 2018 by PeterPirate
Add "nefarious". And then the Anakin Skywalker thing.

[MisterBluxom]

I can't believe you people knew so much about what was going on. I was pretty much bewildered at the whole episode.

I didn't even realize the two engineers were being interviewed to build the underground meth lab.

I thought it was some brand new project. I guess I better try to keep the time lines straight.

I really want to see those kids get the shit kicked out of them. Maybe Jimmy/Saul can make some deal with the bikers to protect him and break those punks' legs - all six legs.

[dwmarch]

I liked the contrast between Kim's public defender cases and the urgency of Mesa Verde's document crisis. There's this bank summoning her because OMG there's an error with the documents and we need them fixed right away. In the meantime, Kim is looking at a human being who is about to anxiety attack her own self into jail and Kim knows she can prevent that from happening. Mesa Verde's incorrect documents aren't going to cause cancer and fixing the error RIGHT NOW isn't going to cure cancer. Kim is starting to realize that all this pressure she has been putting herself under, literally killing herself for this overly ambitious bank is all artificial and meaningless in the long run. Mesa Verde had the resources to fix the problem all along without Kim's help but it was inconvenient for them. Kim is becoming more inclined to tell them what they can do with their convenience.

[Bryce Lynch]

50 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

I liked the contrast between Kim's public defender cases and the urgency of Mesa Verde's document crisis. There's this bank summoning her because OMG there's an error with the documents and we need them fixed right away. In the meantime, Kim is looking at a human being who is about to anxiety attack her own self into jail and Kim knows she can prevent that from happening. Mesa Verde's incorrect documents aren't going to cause cancer and fixing the error RIGHT NOW isn't going to cure cancer. Kim is starting to realize that all this pressure she has been putting herself under, literally killing herself for this overly ambitious bank is all artificial and meaningless in the long run. Mesa Verde had the resources to fix the problem all along without Kim's help but it was inconvenient for them. Kim is becoming more inclined to tell them what they can do with their convenience.

Except what she does as a public defender actually harms society.  That scumbag kid she got off with 4 months probabation is almost certainly going to hurt a lot of people and it is unlikely that Denise will turn her life around.  

I think that is what Judge Neelix was trying to warn her about.  

It is a catch-22.  Criminal defense attorneys are obviously necessary to a fair justice system.  But, people get robbed, assaulted, raped, and murdered every day because of the work they do.

[rehoboth]

5 hours ago, FortKnox said:

Yeah Jimmy is going to get those punks back. He's going to get Mike on them and since they did something to Jimmy, mugging him and taking his money, Mike will take the case.

Someone needs to refresh me here. The last time we saw Saul on BB was when he was getting ready to get his new ID and Walt was trying to force him to help fight Uncle Jack and crew. But, what did we see Saul doing before that scene?

And that date, November 21 right? I guess we find what happens then at the start of next season with Gene.

I was thinking that the biker gang might want more of those phones.  They might run into Jimmy  at one of his hangouts and ask why he isn't coming around anymore and they may provide some kind of protection for him.  Either that or it's time to find Huell.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Illegals?

Whoops. One of the problems of sleep-typing at 1 a-hem is that you might make up a word that actually is a word that means something else. I was going for a brief way to say "those involved in illegal enterprise," but clearly the moment in linguistic history has long passed to creatively use "illegal" as a noun in this way.
Thank you, @DangerousMinds, for tactfully drawing my attention to it!

 

 

 

2 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

really want to see those kids get the shit kicked out of them. Maybe Jimmy/Saul can make some deal with the bikers to protect him and break those punks' legs - all six legs.

I have a problem with the direction of the scene and the lack of facial swelling afterwards. This seemed like more like Generic Crime Show Star's Beating, not Vince Gilligan Show Attention To Detail. If they had in fact beaten him as badly as it appeared that they were, Jimmy should have been in the hospital with life threatening internal injuries. A friend's husband was mugged and beaten that way waiting for the last train home at 12:30am from a job as a chef in Chicago. 
So, given the injuries we saw the next day, and given that Jimmy used the stolen Hummel money to buy the cell phones himself, like Jimmy, I'd be inclined to let it go, and, as a viewer and an older mom, I'd hope Jimmy would learn to not be "in the wrong place at the wtong time" in the future. He's lucky the biker guys didn't beat him up.

[acid burn]

I think Kim's public defender storyline accomplishes two things: (1) It contrasts how she handles ennui versus how Jimmy handles ennui--Kim is unfulfilled with her high-paying position as a corporate attorney so she seeks out people she believes genuinely need her help, legally, to turn their lives around. Jimmy, OTOH, is unfulfilled with his low-paying, temporary position at the cell phone store so he targets people he assumes are involved in some type of criminal enterprise who can fund his illegal side-hustle; and (2) it shows us that Kim is both drawn to those she believes she can save and is morally flexible in her quest to do so (she threatened that prosecutor without really threatening him, per se, like a champ). 

Both Kim and Jimmy are incredibly self-destructive in their own ways, although neither fully realizes it yet. I suspect when Kim leaves it might not be because Jimmy does something that causes her to walk away. I could be completely wrong, of course, but it makes me a little afraid for Kim. On the flip side, it also makes me wonder if Kim is the attorney Jimmy tells Francesca to call at the beginning of the episode.

Edited September 4, 2018 by acid burn

[Bannon]

Kim's self sabotage is very interesting. Once again, a character in the BB/BCS universe lacks the self awareness to frankly acknowledge what motivates the character, and simply act to fulfill that motivation, or to examine the utility of the motivation. Instead, we get, as another poster aptly described, a passive aggressive outburst in which Kim starts making decisions without forthrightly acknowledging to herself that she is making a decision, and the basis of the decision. I have no idea where this is going to lead, but I am tremendously interested in finding out. Same with Howard, who is clearly headed towards a life changing crisis, if not already immersed in it.

Mike is caught up in the practicalities of executing a covert massive engineering project, and this might account for his lack of attention to detail in what ultimately matters; which is how to cleanly and safely transfer wealth to Kaylee. He really should have done something similar to what Saul initially did with  Walt, under the cover of what Walt Jr. did with a GoFundMe prototype for Walt's cancer treatment. Set up an internet charity for children of slain police officers, and clean the money as it gets to Kaylee. No future safety deposit box filled with cash, for the DEA to seize. Money laundering is hard enough, however, even when it doesn't require you to revisit that event which fills your psyche with agonizing pain.

My goodness, the writing for this show is tremendous, along with the direction. The shooting of the process with the French and German engineers was just fantastic.

[Bannon]

11 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I think Jimmy deep down knows what is eating Howard.   I just don't think Jimmy can understand why Chuck's death would bother Howard at all.  Chuck's death hasn't affected Jimmy, at least not yet.

Jimmy also saw that  even though Howard was seeing a "shrink", it didn't look like it was helping Howard at all.  That is probably why Jimmy had torn up the psychiatrist's name and number and flushed it.

Really disagree that Chuck's death hasn't affected Jimmy yet. It seems to me that Jimmy is filled with anger and grief, albeit covered undeneath a veneer of nihilism, and that is what is motivating him.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Except what she does as a public defender actually harms society.  That scumbag kid she got off with 4 months probabation is almost certainly going to hurt a lot of people and it is unlikely that Denise will turn her life around.  

I think that is what Judge Neelix was trying to warn her about.  

It is a catch-22.  Criminal defense attorneys are obviously necessary to a fair justice system.  But, people get robbed, assaulted, raped, and murdered every day because of the work they do.

I don't agree public defenders on the whole harm society, at least I don't think it's easy to quantify.  In this case the kid had an attitude that said he wasn't going to listen to her advice, but she was right in telling him that if he doesn't, he'll be with criminals 24/7 and it's good she's trying to divert him from becoming a real 'scumbag' like Nacho (who lots of viewers like to pull for).  As for Denise, it's not predetermined that she's doomed to not turn her life around.  She looked like she could be amenable to drug treatment or other intervention, more so than the first client.  The interesting thing to me is that this kind of work, while it is currently firing up Kim, has the potential to be as soul-sucking as the regulatory humdrum she is fleeing from. 

[benteen]

8 hours ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

If Kim doesn't want to work for Mesa Verde any more, that is fine but she owes it to them to be upfront about it. I don't care for this long suffering bleeding heart route they are taking her.

If she wants to play hero to the little people, that is fine. But her old friend gave her the benefit of the doubt and trusted her with this huge account when she needed a morale boost. They are not the bad guys just because she decided to grow a conscious or whatever it is that is going on with her 

 

I like Howard, I hope he doesn't meet a tragic end. Chuck is not worth all the guilt and heartache. He was a pretty rotten man and caused the most harm to himself. Howard could've kicked him out of the firm a long time and he certainly didn't have to take care of him years after he became incapacitated.

Excellent points, particularly on Kim.  She pledged to be Mesa Verde representative and that she would focus all her time on that.  She broke that promise and should be upfront about it.

Though this is what Mesa Verde gets.  They are a big bank really looking to expand and should have more than one lawyer.

I agree that Howard shouldn't be beating himself up over the likes of Chuck and Jimmy is scummy for not letting him off the hook.  I'm not saying that Jimmy should tell him about his role in the insurance bit but at least reassure Howard that Chuck was a sick man who made his own decisions.

[shapeshifter]

11 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

I was expecting one of those punks to be the client that Kim got off.

Great point, @icemiser69! In a generic sense, he was.

 

2 minutes ago, acid burn said:

I think Kim's public defender storyline accomplishes two things: (1) It contrasts how she handles ennui versus how Jimmy handles ennui--Kim is unfulfilled with her high-paying position as a corporate attorney so she seeks out people she believes genuinely need her help, legally, to turn their lives around. Jimmy, OTOH, is unfulfilled with his low-paying, temporary position at the cell phone store so he targets people he assumes are involved in some type of criminal enterprise who can fund his illegal side-hustle;

And yet, as others mentioned upthread, the odds are very poor of really helping very many juvenile offenders whose lives tend to be void of opportunity and social support.

[Bryce Lynch]

10 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I don't agree public defenders on the whole harm society, at least I don't think it's easy to quantify.  In this case the kid had an attitude that said he wasn't going to listen to her advice, but she was right in telling him that if he doesn't, he'll be with criminals 24/7 and it's good she's trying to divert him from becoming a real 'scumbag' like Nacho (who lots of viewers like to pull for).  As for Denise, it's not predetermined that she's doomed to not turn her life around.  She looked like she could be amenable to drug treatment or other intervention, more so than the first client.  The interesting thing to me is that this kind of work, while it is currently firing up Kim, has the potential to be as soul-sucking as the regulatory humdrum she is fleeing from. 

There might be hope for Denise, but it seemed clear that the young man was headed toward committing more and bigger crimes.   The fact is defense lawyers in general, and especially public defenders, defend mostly guilty people and help get criminals back out on the street more quickly to do more harm.   Regulatory humdrum might not inspire the soul, but it probably won't darken it the way helping people get away with harming other people can.  

But, of course, they are necessary to an honest criminal justice system.  Without defense attorneys, innocent people could easily be railroaded and people's civil rights could be violated, routinely.  Kim used the Miranda violation to get her client a ridiculously light sentence, which in the specific case was bad for society,  but in the bigger picture is good, because it deters the government from violating people's rights.  Of course, in this day and age, when everyone can recite Miranda rights (but half of Americans can't name a single Supreme Court Justice) it is a bit ridiculous to throw out evidence over them.  But, the principle extends to things like illegal searches and denying an attorney when one has been requested, etc..  

[Bryce Lynch]

32 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Kim's self sabotage is very interesting. Once again, a character in the BB/BCS universe lacks the self awareness to frankly acknowledge what motivates the character, and simply act to fulfill that motivation, or to examine the utility of the motivation. Instead, we get, as another poster aptly described, a passive aggressive outburst in which Kim starts making decisions without forthrightly acknowledging to herself that she is making a decision, and the basis of the decision. I have no idea where this is going to lead, but I am tremendously interested in finding out. Same with Howard, who is clearly headed towards a life changing crisis, if not already immersed in it.

Mike is caught up in the practicalities of executing a covert massive engineering project, and this might account for his lack of attention to detail in what ultimately matters; which is how to cleanly and safely transfer wealth to Kaylee. He really should have done something similar to what Saul initially did with  Walt, under the cover of what Walt Jr. did with a GoFundMe prototype for Walt's cancer treatment. Set up an internet charity for children of slain police officers, and clean the money as it gets to Kaylee. No future safety deposit box filled with cash, for the DEA to seize. Money laundering is hard enough, however, even when it doesn't require you to revisit that event which fills your psyche with agonizing pain.

My goodness, the writing for this show is tremendous, along with the direction. The shooting of the process with the French and German engineers was just fantastic.

Agree about Kim.  

Mike's original plan to get money to Kaylee was  fairly sound.  If Walt hadn't gone overboard with the magnet outside the police evidence room and broken the picture frame, where the offshore bank account number were hidden, the DEA probably would have never discovered Kaylee's original stash.  I think that was supposed to be fate. as Hank mentioned that the laptop they were trying to wipe was encrypted, so they would never have seen the videos of the lab anyway.  It also followed the pattern of Jesse having a good idea and Walt pushing it too far, leading to disaster.

His method for distributing the hazard pay and putting away Kaylee's cash using safe deposit boxes all in the same bank, was very, sloppy, though.  

[ShadowFacts]

11 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

There might be hope for Denise, but it seemed clear that the young man was headed toward committing more and bigger crimes.   The fact is defense lawyers in general, and especially public defenders, defend mostly guilty people and help get criminals back out on the street more quickly to do more harm.   Regulatory humdrum might not inspire the soul, but it probably won't darken it the way helping people get away with harming other people can.  

But, of course, they are necessary to an honest criminal justice system.  Without defense attorneys, innocent people could easily be railroaded and people's civil rights could be violated, routinely.  Kim used the Miranda violation to get her client a ridiculously light sentence, which in the specific case was bad for society,  but in the bigger picture is good, because it deters the government from violating people's rights.  Of course, in this day and age, when everyone can recite Miranda rights (but half of Americans can't name a single Supreme Court Justice) it is a bit ridiculous to throw out evidence over them.  But, the principle extends to things like illegal searches and denying an attorney when one has been requested, etc..  

Probably the guy is a Nacho in the making, but it's not crystal clear.  He is not happy just working at his grandfather's restaurant, just like the upholstery shop wasn't enough for Nacho.  The thing that doesn't bode well is that this kid didn't have any family with him at the court appearance.  Doesn't mean he's a throwaway, though, and that locking him in jail would be a good thing for society, either.  It's not really cut and dried.  This kid did crude thievery (or was it just vandalism?) with concrete through a window, Jimmy and Mike do more sophisticated theft and they are much older, essentially beyond reform.  Better to at least try to intervene on the criminal-minded when they are young and more malleable.  Of course it doesn't work a lot of the time, it would be unrealistic to think it could, but that doesn't mean it's better not to even try. 

[SunnyBeBe]

4 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

I can't believe you people knew so much about what was going on. I was pretty much bewildered at the whole episode.

I didn't even realize the two engineers were being interviewed to build the underground meth lab.

I thought it was some brand new project. I guess I better try to keep the time lines straight.

I really want to see those kids get the shit kicked out of them. Maybe Jimmy/Saul can make some deal with the bikers to protect him and break those punks' legs - all six legs.

As I was watching last night, I thought, OMG, if you didn't follow BB how would much of this stuff would make any sense.  Of course, knowing what had transpired and why we were seeing the opening scene added to my amusement.  I cracked up when he called the vacuum cleaner repair.  

I wonder if the cell phone manager knew just what a motivated employee Jimmy would be....lol.  

I was very frustrated with Kim.  Conversations with DAs just don't go that way, most states have minimum guidelines for punishment, and inappropriate deals can be rejected by the judge. I get what they are going for, but, it didn't work for me. And, going to a client's home....just so unrealistic. And her story about the clerk holding the case...it doesn't work that way.  It's just not realistic.  And, I hate that, because, I really, really, respect the show and writers, but, I hope they move from this soon, let Kim lose the Messa Verde....the writing is on the wall and let her do her court appointed work, which is close to being pro bono and you don't get reimbursed for cab fare.   I really hope that we can see something more amusing with Kim.  What we are apparently seeing is just not that amusing to me. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Tighthead]

If you are doing criminal defence/PD work out of a commitment to justice, you might quickly find it as soul destroying as bank regulatory work. A very low percentage of your clients are truly in a place (mentally, physically, opportunities etc) to turn their life around. It’s easy to become a cog in just another machine.  If she is going to pursue the work she will quickly find that she doesn’t have the time or will to take cabs and give pep talks to wayward clients.  I actually thought that last night Denise had skipped out the back door.

I’m not disparaging the work. I’ve had a very diverse practice in law for 20 years. It’s almost all like the iceberg theory. Ninety per cent of the practice is hidden below the surface and it can be very mundane.  

Ia tree with the comment above that with the expansion, Mesa would need more representation. Normally I would expect in house counsel (Kim’s friend) to liaise with outside counsel in each jurisdiction. Realistically I’m not sure there would be a role doe Kim now. 

As for the suggestion above about why was a simple fix a big deal, they mentioned that the paralegal couldn’t locate the files. That seemed like a bit of a stretch but information tech was different then. 

[ahmerali]

7 hours ago, FortKnox said:

Yeah Jimmy is going to get those punks back. He's going to get Mike on them and since they did something to Jimmy, mugging him and taking his money, Mike will take the case.

Someone needs to refresh me here. The last time we saw Saul on BB was when he was getting ready to get his new ID and Walt was trying to force him to help fight Uncle Jack and crew. But, what did we see Saul doing before that scene?

And that date, November 21 right? I guess we find what happens then at the start of next season with Gene.

 

It was November 12th at 3 PM.

I rewatched this part of BB...Saul is not seen at all in "Ozymandias", it was two episodes before that where Jesse mangles his face, and in the following episode Saul talks to Walt about what happened and how Jesse is a problem that needs to be taken care of. Then later he finds Walt at the carwash, and tells him the Huell is missing...so we don't know exactly what triggers Saul to get out of Dodge, but my guess is that Jesse dropped Saul's name to Hank and Gomie, and he got a call from the DEA....

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I think Jimmy deep down knows what is eating Howard.   I just don't think Jimmy can understand why Chuck's death would bother Howard at all.  Chuck's death hasn't affected Jimmy, at least not yet.

Jimmy also saw that  even though Howard was seeing a "shrink", it didn't look like it was helping Howard at all.  That is probably why Jimmy had torn up the psychiatrist's name and number and flushed it.

 

I think Jimmy does what he always does, finds a way to use an opportunity. Seeing Howard suffer emotionally for Chuck's death means that the 'suffering' is happening, and it's not on Jimmy to deal with....he can move on.

And with Kim....the self-sabotage is becoming quite apparent, she obviously just wants to feel like she's doing something 'good', and doesn't quite know what that looks like....my feeling is that she sees Jimmy trying to be 'good', and thinking that once he becomes a lawyer again, if she's at his level (doing PD work rather than the high-profile stuff) then she can be 'good' with him. I think she also has the feeling of "If I had just been there with Jimmy when he was younger, if I had been able to set him straight and just help him a bit...maybe he would be a better person and feel better about himself....I care so much for him and I want him to feel better....he's been through so much and obviously he feels so terrible about his brother's death (which that bastard Howard is responsible for) and is just trying to be strong and move on....maybe I can make up for it by helping others like him instead of just making a bank richer...." Something like that.

One thing I just realized - it doesn't make sense for Kim to be lawyer that Francesca calls. Francesca obviously knows Kim, she used to work for Kim for crying out loud! And she certainly wouldn't have to tell Kim that "Jimmy sent me". The only - ONLY - way it makes sense is if Kim is now working for another firm somewhere as a criminal lawyer, and saying "Jimmy sent me" is some sort of code that gets someone sent over to her.

With regards to the call on November 12th - Jimmy is actually asking Francesca to be at a certain place at 3 PM. If anything she is going to *receive* a call, not make it. I think it's likely from the dialogue that Jimmy will be calling her on a burner phone he has provided for her, or she will have to get something from someone to get to him somehow. What the call might be about is still quite up in the air, but I am quite sure that it's to give her his new address so that she can get something to him, or maybe just news about what happened to his practice and his clients, and to make sure nothing follows him to Omaha

Edited September 4, 2018 by ahmerali

[jww]

"really want to see those kids get the shit kicked out of them. Maybe Jimmy/Saul can make some deal with the bikers to protect him and break those punks' legs - all six legs."

Actually if/when the bikers realize they paid  2-5x retail for the phones they may come looking for Jimmy for a refund(Walmart has prepaid phones  now for $15) also it is hard to believe no one was aware of the ready availability of prepaid/disposal phones.  I do believe Jimmy cleaning the windows was symbolic of Jimmy deciding to clean up his act  and not do anything to endanger his probation and getting his law  license back.

[Bryce Lynch]

8 minutes ago, ahmerali said:

It was November 12th at 3 PM.

I rewatched this part of BB...Saul is not seen at all in "Ozymandias", it was two episodes before that where Jesse mangles his face, and in the following episode Saul talks to Walt about what happened and how Jesse is a problem that needs to be taken care of. Then later he finds Walt at the carwash, and tells him the Huell is missing...so we don't know exactly what triggers Saul to get out of Dodge, but my guess is that Jesse dropped Saul's name to Hank and Gomie, and he got a call from the DEA....

When Saul arrived at the vacuum cleaner shop with the disappearer, Walt was already there.  Saul was aware of Walt's phone call to Skyler, which was recorded by the police.  I am thinking that flash forward probably takes place a day or so after Hank and Gomie were killed and that he heard about Walt being exposed as Heisenberg on the news.  

I still have no clue about November 12 at 3PM.  Maybe it is just a random time he set, figuring that by that time (about 8 months later) the heat would have died down and Francesca wouldn't be followed by law enforcement.  He might have wanted an update about what was going on in ABQ and what she had told the police and what they told her.  It is also possible he might have had a message for someone else, he wanted her to pass on.

If Francesca flipped on him, this call would be a good opportunity for law enforcement to get some clues about Saul's whereabouts.  They could trace the incoming call and try to get Francesca to get him to reveal information about himself.  

[MisterBluxom]

16 minutes ago, jww said:

"really want to see those kids get the shit kicked out of them. Maybe Jimmy/Saul can make some deal with the bikers to protect him and break those punks' legs - all six legs."

Actually if/when the bikers realize they paid  2-5x retail for the phones they may come looking for Jimmy for a refund(Walmart has prepaid phones  now for $15) also it is hard to believe no one was aware of the ready availability of prepaid/disposal phones.  I do believe Jimmy cleaning the windows was symbolic of Jimmy deciding to clean up his act  and not do anything to endanger his probation and getting his law  license back.

But consider the timing. How many people would know they could get prepaid phones at that time? I still remember back in 1985 I saw some man downtown holding what looked like a shoebox up to his ear and talking into it. That was the first time I ever saw a cell phone. Before that I had no clue they existed.

So, Jimmy may have actually been doing the bikers a big favor and they may have considered paying $30 for a "private phone" to be a great deal. It might take them a long time to ever find out they could buy them somewhere else because the industry was just starting up at that time. Wasn't it?

I'm asking cuz I'm not really sure.

[attica]

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Except what she does as a public defender actually harms society. 

Disagree pretty hard with this. Kim could have gotten David's case thrown out, based on what-his-name's improper handling of the case. She instead negotiated some punishment for him, which shows she thinks he bears responsibility.  Anyway the point of a defense attorney isn't so much to make angels of their clients, it's to hold the prosecutors to the standards set forth by law. You wanna throw somebody in jail, depriving them of their freedom? You gotta come correct.  Every defendant deserves zealous representation, regardless of their low-life-ness. Doing so protects all of us.

[Bannon]

42 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

As I was watching last night, I thought, OMG, if you didn't follow BB how would much of this stuff would make any sense.  Of course, knowing what had transpired and why we were seeing the opening scene added to my amusement.  I cracked up when he called the vacuum cleaner repair.  

I wonder if the cell phone manager knew just what a motivated employee Jimmy would be....lol.  

I was very frustrated with Kim.  Conversations with DAs just don't go that way, most states have minimum guidelines for punishment, and inappropriate deals can be rejected by the judge. I get what they are going for, but, it didn't work for me. And, going to a client's home....just so unrealistic. And her story about the clerk holding the case...it doesn't work that way.  It's just not realistic.  And, I hate that, because, I really, really, respect the show and writers, but, I hope they move from this soon, let Kim lose the Messa Verde....the writing is on the wall and let her do her court appointed work, which is close to being pro bono and you don't get reimbursed for cab fare.   I really hope that we can see something more amusing with Kim.  What we are apparently seeing is just not that amusing to me. 

Frankly, the most unrealistic part was that a first time offender like that, in New Mexico, would ever be threatened with real jail time. If they portrayed the New Mexico criminal justice system realistically, where even violent criminality frequently results in very light sentences, a lot of the audience would be commenting on how unrealistic it is.