America To Me - General Discussion

[Tom Holmberg]

Info on Jada Buford, who is now a junior at Howard studying film

'“I decided to allow cameras to follow a year in my high school life, because I thought I could be a voice for the black girls that get left out of the conversation when we’re talking about racial equity in education,” said Buford....'

https://newsroom.howard.edu/newsroom/article/8896/film-student-spotlighted-starz-docuseries-america-me-highlights-racial

[Tom Holmberg]

I thought school board member Jackie Moore was extremely arrogant in her comments to the citizens asking questions about OPRF tearing down the parking garage to build an Olympic-sized pool, esp. when that money could be used to address the educational issues at the school (she voted for building the pool).   

[Tom Holmberg]

On ‎10‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 2:56 AM, Mardo2044 said:

He should stay in school as long as he is able to make forward progress because he gets the support and services. 

It seems as if a big factor is that the Oak Park elementary schools are failing these kids, who enter high school so far behind they can never catch up.

[meep.meep]

I think for Terrance, it's a big stretch to conclude that his elementary school failed him.  He has mental problems.  It is going to be much harder for him to learn.  I loved his special tutor.  There's something to be said for the European educational system where someone like Terrance would be taught a trade rather than having him continue in traditional schooling.

I'm liking the wrestling coach more.  "Do you need a hug?" was a great motivator.

[Mardo2044]

On 10/1/2018 at 7:11 PM, chabelisaywow said:

Meeting Ke-Shawn, up to know, he just reinforces the "white students want to try harder" feeling.  I know he has a lot going one -but  a lot of people have drama in their lives.  The Stanford bound wrestler is succeeding - is he an anomaly ? But he has two parents, etc.... what about Grant?

Ke-Shawn is very likeable and you want to pull for him.  He does have a lot going on at home but it seems he has a loving mom and grandma. The school can't make him want it for himself, and he does have to work for it.  My dad grew up in a very abusive household, pulled himself out of nothing and worked hard to make a good life for himself.  He always says "It serves no one to be a victim.  At some point you have to decide you are worth working harder than you ever have in your life, and make it happen."

[Mardo2044]

On 10/9/2018 at 5:04 PM, meep.meep said:

I think for Terrance, it's a big stretch to conclude that his elementary school failed him.  He has mental problems.  It is going to be much harder for him to learn. 

I agree.  A better example for elementary schools failing these kids is the teacher advocating for reading services who got a student from grade 1 to grade 4 reading level in 1 term.  A shame that student did not get a teacher until high school.

[IntrovertRed]

On 10/12/2018 at 5:22 AM, Mardo2044 said:

I agree.  A better example for elementary schools failing these kids is the teacher advocating for reading services who got a student from grade 1 to grade 4 reading level in 1 term.  A shame that student did not get a teacher until high school.

But do we know that it wasn’t offered at his elementary school?  I don’t know what’s the standard  for public schools, but at my son’s elementary school, they had reading specialists for kids who had lower reading skills and worked in small groups of 3-5.  Most were mainly boys, my son being one of them.  He struggled with reading a long time and it’s still his least favorite thing to do, however it did help and he’s doing well as a high school junior.  The past several years the district has laid off the amount of such specialists so I don’t know how it works now sadly.

Edited October 14, 2018 by KLJ

[Mardo2044]

On 10/13/2018 at 10:17 PM, KLJ said:

But do we know that it wasn’t offered at his elementary school?  I don’t know what’s the standard  for public schools, but at my son’s elementary school, they had reading specialists for kids who had lower reading skills and worked in small groups of 3-5.  Most were mainly boys, my son being one of them.  He struggled with reading a long time and it’s still his least favorite thing to do, however it did help and he’s doing well as a high school junior.  The past several years the district has laid off the amount of such specialists so I don’t know how it works now sadly.

My point is, 8 years of school and a student is coming into highschool with a 1st grade reading level?  If they are able to make MASSIVE stides in 1 semester....There is something wrong there, long before highschool.  Specialist or not.  Terrance has learning disabilities so a different matter... ots just a ;longer trajectory and any forward progress he can make to prepare him is helpful.

[Tom Holmberg]

Local Oak Park newspaper column on episode 7 (the columnist seems to have given up actually discussing the episodes): http://www.riverforest.com/News/Articles/10-9-2018/Have-you-lost-your-righteous-mind%3F/

[Tom Holmberg]

Article on Kendale, who's going to Cornell and still wrestling:

https://news.cornellcollege.edu/2018/10/kendale-mccoy-20-featured-10-part-starz-docuseries-america/

Chicago Magazine on Episode 8

http://www.chicagomag.com/arts-culture/October-2018/America-to-Me-Episode-8-Recap-Time-for-a-Good-Cry/

[Surrealist]

On 10/14/2018 at 9:54 PM, Mardo2044 said:

My point is, 8 years of school and a student is coming into highschool with a 1st grade reading level?  If they are able to make MASSIVE stides in 1 semester....There is something wrong there, long before highschool.  Specialist or not.  Terrance has learning disabilities so a different matter... ots just a ;longer trajectory and any forward progress he can make to prepare him is helpful.

Right. I think Terrance having neurological problems was addressed in the first or second episode. 

So, I'm not surprised he continues to have difficulty in school and in the college prep track. That said I feel sorry for him, and hope he finds meaning and happiness in his life.

[Tom Holmberg]

Oak Park newspaper on Episode 8:

http://www.oakpark.com/News/Articles/10-16-2018/Temporarily-embarrassed-geniuses/

Romain compares Proviso East's (my alma mater, though PMSA didn't exist when I went) problems with OPRF:

"When the mere concept of moving PMSA closer to East and West was broached, the students and parents of the selective-enrollment school flooded the board with their fears and concerns (of bullying, of being around students who aren't as motivated, of behavior problems, etc.). These concerns weren't coming from whites. PMSA's student body is 61 percent Hispanic and 29 percent black...Proviso — a district divided between one high-performing school and two low-performing ones and where student achievement is demarcated by factors that aren't as clear-cut as black and white."

[Mardo2044]

Does voting down the pool mean the money goes towards education?  It sounds to me they are just going to propose another pool plan.  I'm confused.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Mardo2044

[Tom Holmberg]

1 hour ago, Mardo2044 said:

It sounds to me they are just going to propose another pool plan.  I'm confused.

They are still trying to build an Olympic-sized pool.  http://www.oakpark.com/News/Articles/6-19-2018/OPRF's-antiquated-swimming-requirement/

The citizens argument, besides the cost was tearing down the parking garage for the students, building a smaller one, and letting the rest park on the streets.  Oak Park side streets are fairly narrow, so its not unreasonable for neighbors to object to dumping all those cars on their streets.

[Mardo2044]

51 minutes ago, Tom Holmberg said:

They are still trying to build an Olympic-sized pool.  http://www.oakpark.com/News/Articles/6-19-2018/OPRF's-antiquated-swimming-requirement/

 

Thanks for this article.  I do question getting rid of the swim requirement.  Although I agree students should be able to test out, inability to swim and drowning amoungst minority populations is considerably higher than white populations.  Proposed 3-6 weeks is not nearly enough to teach a child to swim.  Maybe not to drown, but I think the 2 semesters or whatever for students that currently take, assuming they could incorporate a test-out is fantastic.  

[Tom Holmberg]

1 minute ago, Mardo2044 said:

I do question getting rid of the swim requirement. 

Of course that is totally unrelated to building an Olympic-sized (or two Olympic-sized) pool.  The school already has a pool (actually a girls' pool and a boys' pool), similar to probably most of the other high school pools in the area. 

Here's a picture of the current pool: http://www.riverforest.com/News/Articles/1-6-2011/OPRF-pools-reopen-after-passing-inspection/

[Tom Holmberg]

OPRF is still pushing for a new pool(s):  http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/oak-park/news/ct-oak-letter-sheehan-tl-0927-story.html

[Mardo2044]

22 hours ago, Tom Holmberg said:

Of course that is totally unrelated to building an Olympic-sized (or two Olympic-sized) pool.  The school already has a pool (actually a girls' pool and a boys' pool), similar to probably most of the other high school pools in the area. 

Here's a picture of the current pool: http://www.riverforest.com/News/Articles/1-6-2011/OPRF-pools-reopen-after-passing-inspection/

But the OakPark article http://www.oakpark.com/News/Articles/6-19-2018/OPRF's-antiquated-swimming-requirement/ argues one of the reasons needing more lane space is due to the high school swim requirement and advocating to significantly gut the swim requirement to stay in the existing school pool facilities.  I am just saying that is short sighted.  This isn't the best article because it says POC don't swim for cultural reasons, and we all know it is because generations were denied access to public pools... but it does provide information about swim preventable deaths in the minority population: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/15/in-pools-young-blacks-drown-at-far-higher-rates/9146213/

Edited October 19, 2018 by Mardo2044

[Mardo2044]

I thought someone somewhere suggested this be a park district endeavor rather than a school endeavor so that everyone could enjoy the facilities at a different location.  I thought that was a great idea.  Unique partnerships can be formed, in this example town, school district, and ymca https://www.heraldonline.com/news/local/article212249194.html

[Tom Holmberg]

21 minutes ago, Mardo2044 said:

I thought someone somewhere suggested this be a park district endeavor rather than a school endeavor

The school Board seems determined to build a pool come hell or high water (so to speak).

[Mardo2044]

42 minutes ago, Tom Holmberg said:

The school Board seems determined to build a pool come hell or high water (so to speak).

Apparently so, and it seems they have been working on this issue several years. I've been reading up on this now. I do have a competition swimmer, so I understand the desire to have a pool that allows for diving as well... but it seems to spend alot of money to combine 2 pools and build 1 pool that is not even 50 meter olympic size, but a 40 yard stretch pool to accomodate diving, doesn't really get them the result they want either.  It would enable them to potentially host state HS swim competition depending on seating and parking, but as far as benefit to competition swimming it does not really give them what they need.  I guess only Evanston, New Trier, and now maybe Libertyville could host IHSA in the area.  It's hard to explain to non swimmers, but 50 meter competition swimming is a different beast, feel, different times.  Serious D1 (and Olympic) hopefuls would be drawn to a school with both long course and short course capability for sure.  So seems like alot of money to not even REALLY get what they want.  

[Suck It Trebek]

Can’t they use Ridgeland Commons or Rehm (maybe Rehm only...it’s been 30+ years since I’ve been there [my goodness I’ve gotten old!], but they have high diving platforms.) I have no idea the intricacies of what all it would entail from insurance to transportation to whatever else, but seems they could use this money elsewhere. 100% am saying that with zero skin in the game, of course...and, btw, my local HS has no pool. I’ve been watching this with my high schooler and we’re both in awe of all the programs and clubs that are available. It’s wonderful!

[Mardo2044]

I'm not certain where their dive team goes now, but it is off property and they are trying to make it so the swim and dive team can train together on property.  Which I understand to a point, but it is a really hefty price tag. I would not go for a change personally unless I could get the 50 meter pool because it is not enough of a cost/benefit.

[Tom Holmberg]

22 hours ago, Suck It Trebek said:

I’ve been watching this with my high schooler and we’re both in awe of all the programs and clubs that are available. It’s wonderful!

No matter what the problems are there, the students have an opportunity for a first-class education if they take advantage of it.  And it seems that at least some of the students on the show got into good colleges. (I haven't looked for updates on all of the students being followed).

[Mardo2044]

Happy to see Terrance gain some confidence with his French and graphic arts.  However, this last episode was brutal.  How long are we going to have Ms. Stoval try to fight the good fight with her work on equity before she tired of the push back from admin?  So they say they want change and embetterment but they won't empower her to impliment it?  Crazy.  It was nice to see Hawthorne elementary in CPS allow her to pilot her program there.  But why she isn't allowed to teach her own teachers at OPRF or pilot it there is mind boggling.  I can't imagine they are on her side any more now that she is exposing their resistance to embetterment. They are at risk of losing her as they did the assistant VP.

Edited October 22, 2018 by Mardo2044

[Tom Holmberg]

16 minutes ago, Mardo2044 said:

But why she isn't allowed to teach her own teachers at OPRF or pilot it there is mind boggling.

I thought it was telling that at the meeting that was filmed everyone was supportive, but the later meeting that wasn't filmed she was shot down. 

[Mardo2044]

4 hours ago, Tom Holmberg said:

I thought it was telling that at the meeting that was filmed everyone was supportive, but the later meeting that wasn't filmed she was shot down. 

I knew there was resistance when that Gevinson, instructional committee chair, was enthusiastic and was pushing for a commitment and the head of school board Superindent Isoye said, "we may have some questions".  Stalling, no affirmative...it's like swimming upstream. 

Edited October 22, 2018 by Mardo2044
Have names and titles

[Mardo2044]

FYI-  the principal at Hawethorne CPS that allowed Stovall to pilot WOVEN in his school has since left Hawethorne and continues EQUITY in education endeavors at https://highjumpchicago.org/staff/nathan-pietrini/

[Tom Holmberg]

OPRF Board Member Jackie Moore: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/america-me-oprf-school-board-president-jackie-moore-new-steve-james-doc-1153291

"But despite Moore's support, and despite Stovall having gotten approval to pilot WOVEN at another Chicago school, magnet Hawthorne Scholastic Academy, OPRF never approved it. (Stovall has since left Oak Park and is pursuing a Ph.D. in Race, Inequality and Language in Education at Stanford University.)"

 

Link to Jessica Stovall interview: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/america-me-oprf-teacher-jess-stovall-new-steve-james-doc-1137570

[Suck It Trebek]

What a shame that OPRF lost such a dedicated and passionate educator. I would love to know what Podolner said/did at that meeting. How frustrating it must have been for Jessica Stovall to be lumped in with him when her ideas had merit all on their own; it was her program! It kind of came across to me that he was too aggressive and forceful and, let’s face it, probably didn’t let Jessica get a word in edgewise when she should have been the one to lead the discussion.

[Mardo2044]

14 hours ago, Suck It Trebek said:

It kind of came across to me that he was too aggressive and forceful and, let’s face it, probably didn’t let Jessica get a word in edgewise when she should have been the one to lead the discussion.

Certainly his actions didn't help...but the principal and superintendent did not support the initiative.  Poldoner just gave them a convenient excuse.  Not one encouraging word from those 2 when she is presenting to subcommittee. Why would it take a year to present?  She was able to pilot it in a completely other school before she even could get to subcommittee.  That is administration that may complain about their issues but not want to be agents of change.  You should be trying lots of things and keep what works, not talking at it.  It's remiss to not interview Principal  Rouse and why he as a person of color did not support the program.  That would have been really covering issues of race.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Mardo2044

[Tom Holmberg]

Too bad they aren't as committed to change as they are to a new pool.  In case people don't know, Gevinson is the father of Tavi Gevinson, twelve-year-old fashion blogger who grew up to be a magazine editor and actress.

[meep.meep]

Loved Kendale's mom/aunt going all crazy about the prom.  She got in the pictures!  Everyone has something that they are just ridiculous about.  

Jada can stuff it.  I've had people touching my hair for decades and I'm not black.  Young people think they are the only ones who have ever had a problem.  Harassing the black kids who legitimately live in the district is a much worse and more racist problem.  

[Tom Holmberg]

14 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Jada can stuff it.

She seems into the drama. I think we've all known people like that.

[Skyfall]

On 10/23/2018 at 7:06 AM, Mardo2044 said:

Certainly his actions didn't help...but the principal and superintendent did not support the initiative.  Poldoner just gave them a convenient excuse.  Not one encouraging word from those 2 when she is presenting to subcommittee. Why would it take a year to present?  She was able to pilot it in a completely other school before she even could get to subcommittee.  That is administration that may complain about their issues but not want to be agents of change.  You should be trying lots of things and keep what works, not talking at it.  It's remiss to not interview Principal  Rouse and why he as a person of color did not support the program.  That would have been really covering issues of race.

 

If you haven’t seen the finale early on the app, the last part has been addressed.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Skyfall

[Tom Holmberg]

Chicago magazine on Episode 9: http://www.chicagomag.com/arts-culture/October-2018/America-to-Me-Episode-9-Recap-The-Black-Teacher-Struggle-is-Real/

"Oh, you sweet, naïve cherry blossom. OPRF is basically acting like a guy on Tinder who will flatter you, make plans, then never, ever keep them and act like you’re the bitch when you call him out on his behavior. The school’s administrators have taken to straight up lying to avoid Jessica’s contribution to the racial equity conversation..."

 

"What America to Me Told Me About My Own High School": http://www.vulture.com/2018/10/america-to-me-starz-oak-park-high-school.html

"I find myself exasperated by well-intentioned white people. America to Me illustrates that the Oak Park community is teeming with well-meaning “good white people” who espouse progressive values but have trouble with a tangible follow-through. This impasse is harmful..."

[SoCal Mema]

I was so frustrated with the final episode.  I wanted a follow-up, even if it was just in the rolling credits, of where some of the kids ended up post high school.

[Tom Holmberg]

36 minutes ago, SoCal Mema said:

where some of the kids ended up post high school.

I posted some links above on where some of the students are now.

[Tom Holmberg]

‘America to Me’: What Did the Students Think?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/arts/television/america-to-me-students-starz.html

Amazing Reviews - Low Ratings

“America to Me” is the best-reviewed new series of the year, but the cultural response isn't commensurate with its significance.

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/10/america-to-me-best-new-show-2018-ratings-1202015412/

[Skyfall]

3 hours ago, Tom Holmberg said:

‘America to Me’: What Did the Students Think?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/28/arts/television/america-to-me-students-starz.html

Amazing Reviews - Low Ratings

“America to Me” is the best-reviewed new series of the year, but the cultural response isn't commensurate with its significance.

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/10/america-to-me-best-new-show-2018-ratings-1202015412/

Starz goes for quality not ratings a lot of times. They’ve gotten lucky with Power and Outlander and I think that helps offset the shows that don’t set the ratings afire. I will say I think not going with HBO was smart as where would it fit AND not get lost in the shuffle?

[Tom Holmberg]

OPRF Principal speaks: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/america-me-oprf-principal-nate-rouse-new-steve-james-doc-1155787

"Watching this, I have context right? I know the below-the-line story. So I can’t say that there is anything that was shocking, but one of the things that has been difficult for me is to try to provide context to things that people are reacting to, yet at the same time not seem that I am just defending or deflecting...."

 

Chicago Magazine on Episode 10: http://www.chicagomag.com/arts-culture/October-2018/America-to-Me-Episode-10-Recap-Do-Better-Oak-Park/

"Principal Nate Rouse and Superintendent Steven Isoye are called out repeatedly in the episode for not taking action on the racial achievement gap, for not being visible around the school, for not showing up to celebrate the success of nonhonors students. The school board and administration feel like they are under pressure to satisfy a white community that fundamentally believes Oak Park isn’t the kind of place with this kind of problem. Board member Steve Gevinson does not like being categorized as a white male and wishes people would get to know him before making assumptions about him...."

[Mardo2044]

I thought there was a lot to unpack in the last episode.  Superintendent Isoye exits before docu-series hits, questinable timing, or it could have been pool fatigue.  Principal received low staff ratings and improves his student visability somewhat but does not attend the challenged readers' celebration.  :(  supposedly refuse interviews, so I am left to question whether a principal who is a poc wants to keep status quo rather than benefit all students at his school.

The savy elderly lady who said when a teacher white or black wants to enact change, they didn't last long.  Leadership is driven from the top.  Teachers need to be supported.

[Tom Holmberg]

Oak Park newspaper on final episode: http://www.oakpark.com/News/Articles/10-30-2018/Bringing-'America-to-Me'-...-to-a-beginning%3F/

"Bringing 'America to Me' ... to a beginning?"

 

OPRF needs money: http://www.oakpark.com/News/Articles/10-30-2018/OPRF-facilities-plan-cost-jumps-to-nearly-$220M/

[Tom Holmberg]

OPRF in the News:

‘Sometimes stupid is criminal’

https://chicago.suntimes.com/education/judge-tells-teen-accused-sharing-swastika-picture-stupid-is-criminal-oak-park/

The Nov. 11 demonstration, prompted by swastika incident, was second in two weeks

http://www.oakpark.com/News/Articles/11-13-2018/Rocky-few-weeks-at-OPRF-culminate-in-march-/

Afterthought on 'America to Me'

With comments by some of the featured students

http://www.oakpark.com/News/Articles/11-13-2018/Afterthought-on-'America-to-Me'/