S08.E05: An Explosive Reveal

[Evagirl]

6 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I agree with the above, but I wonder if TLC will bump up Abbie and JD now that Si and Lauren are proving to be a total dud. 

I think they wanted to originally keep them under the hood until the love affair with JinJer wore off, but they may need to rethink their strategy. 

Well I personally enjoy the shows that showcase JinJer (I like that Bitterapple!).  I guess I feel vested in this show since I've been watching it from the beginning - when it was 15 or 16 kids and counting.  I've watched these kids grow up on TV, so yes, I'm interested in how their lives pan out.  I wish none of them ill will.  I do snark though, especially when it comes to JB.  But I was there when Grandpa Dugger passed away, I was there for at least three births, and all the births of all grandkids that they showed.  I was there when they introduced us to the Bates family.  I have a history (even if it's a television history) with this family.  

I'll continue to watch unless they stop showcasing JinJer - the most normal of the whole lot IMO.  They've become my favorite and I root for them every week.  I am looking forward to seeing his parents interact with their first grandchild.  And looking forward to how JinJer raise their child compared to how the other sisters and brothers are raising theirs.

[GeeGolly]

Even if this was the first time JB & M visited Jinger and Jeremy in their new home, they've seen each other many times during the last year. And Jeremy and Jinger were just at the TTH taking pictures of the Littles album cover when they announced the pregnancy.

I'm guessing JB wouldn't be angry because he didn't pick Jeremy for Jinger because the only courting couple he was involved in introducing was Jill and Derick. Every other Duggar child found their own mates.

I think JB was mildly intimidated by Jeremy in the beginning and Jeremy eased JB's feelings by being a respectful SIL and good husband to Jinger.

[bigskygirl]

24 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Even if this was the first time JB & M visited Jinger and Jeremy in their new home, they've seen each other many times during the last year. And Jeremy and Jinger were just at the TTH taking pictures of the Littles album cover when they announced the pregnancy.

I'm guessing JB wouldn't be angry because he didn't pick Jeremy for Jinger because the only courting couple he was involved in introducing was Jill and Derick. Every other Duggar child found their own mates.

I think JB was mildly intimidated by Jeremy in the beginning and Jeremy eased JB's feelings by being a respectful SIL and good husband to Jinger.

 JB had a hand in his children's picks for mates. He could not allowed his children to get married if he did not have a say so in their future spouses. Right now TLC is selling Jeremy and Jinger as the best Duggar couple, and I bet when the time comes JD and Abbie will be sold as the next best couple.

[GeeGolly]

21 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

 JB had a hand in his children's picks for mates. He could not allowed his children to get married if he did not have a say so in their future spouses. Right now TLC is selling Jeremy and Jinger as the best Duggar couple, and I bet when the time comes JD and Abbie will be sold as the next best couple.

I think that's how JB & M thought it would be and what he wants folks to believe. But Ben picked Jessa, Joy picked Austin, Joe picked Kendra. Jinger was set up, and Josiah picked Marjorie and Lauren.

And thank goodness TLC sees what is a tad more entertaining to watch. If they'd just reduce Jessa's time on camera too.

[mythoughtis]

1 hour ago, InternetToughGuy said:

 

How is TLC promoting JD and Abbie? I remember a brief clip of Lauren and Josiah's wedding of JD looking at Abbie, but I don't recall them being introduced together on the show yet.

According to the internet( must be true), JD did a lot of the early courting during the time of year they are not filmed. Supposedly he did that on purpose. So TLC may only be able to pick up the storyline in the middle. 

 I like what I see of JD and Abbie so far. I like Jinger and Jeremy. Kendra and Joe are cute( even though I don’t like their religion).   Never did care for Josh and Anna.  We saw how Jill and Derick turned out. Josiah and Lauren make me sad.  Jessa and Ben, the same. Joy and Austin bore me. 

Edited August 23, 2018 by mythoughtis

[Temperance]

On 8/23/2018 at 6:53 PM, GeeGolly said:

I think that's how JB & M thought it would be and what he wants folks to believe. But Ben picked Jessa, Joy picked Austin, Joe picked Kendra. Jinger was set up, and Josiah picked Marjorie and Lauren.

And thank goodness TLC sees what is a tad more entertaining to watch. If they'd just reduce Jessa's time on camera too.

I think you're right about Ben and Jessa and JinJer, but the rest of them were set up by the Duggars or the other parents. JB and the Forsyths had known each other for years and probably set it up. Remember Joy even said "The courtship is up to Austin and my dad." I think Kendra's parents and JB set up Joe and Kendra. Lauren Swanson's father seems to have been a big reason for their courtship. (It wouldn't surprise if another Swanson ends up courting a Duggar down the road either.) 

(It's too soon for me to tell with JD and Abbie).

You left out Anna and her husband were definitely set up by JB. 

[bigskygirl]

I read or heard someplace Abbie's family knew the Duggars for a long time. I bet if this was true they were planning on getting JD and Abbie together.

In my opinion, none of the couples are interesting unless one of the kids finally tell off JB and Michelle and actually go out in the real world and earn their own way in the world without JB and TLC. Jinger may have step away from the family, but it was only because Jeremy is in control and setting up rules. She went from being JB's daughter to Jeremy's wife. She still cannot stand up on her own two feet without a man leading her way.

[GeeGolly]

6 minutes ago, Temperance said:

I think you're right about Ben and Jessa and JinJer, but the rest of them were set up by the Duggars or the other parents. JB and the Forsyths had known each other for years and probably set it up. Remember Joy even said "The courtship is up to Austin and my dad." I think Kendra's parents and JB set up Joe and Kendra. Lauren Swanson's father seems to have been a big reason for their courtship. (It wouldn't surprise if another Swanson ends up courting a Duggar down the road either.) 

(It's too soon for me to tell with JD and Abbie).

You left out Anna and her husband were definitely set up by JB. 

Josh definitely pursued Anna, they showed it step by step in the early shows. Joy and Jana both stated in the show that Joy was pursuing Austin, even to the point of writing her name at construction sites.

Why do you think the families set up Joe & Kendra and Josiah and Lauren?

[kokapetl]

On 24/08/2018 at 5:06 AM, InternetToughGuy said:

How is TLC promoting JD and Abbie? I remember a brief clip of Lauren and Josiah's wedding of JD looking at Abbie, but I don't recall them being introduced together on the show yet.

That’s for 2019. 

[Pingaponga]

I don't think that JB liked Jeremy as much as his other sons-in-law initially.  Now, who knows? But Jeremy admitted that he had never heard of courtship before meeting Jinger. Jeremy may be fundie, but he's clearly not the same "type" of fundie as JB.  When given the questionnaire by JB, the girls all said he outdid everyone else when it came to answering it by writing so much (sorry, don't remember exactly how it was expressed). Which could be a "I'm trying really hard to impress" kind-of-thing, or (more likely) a "I think this is ridiculous so I'm going to go all out in my responses" kind-of-thing. (I would definitely be doing the latter.)  Jeremy and Jinger definitely created their own standards when it came to physical contact during their courtship and engagement, and while everyone has said they did, they all had the exact same standards.  Coincidence, or JB's influence? Jeremy wasn't interested in moving to Duggarville, while all other sons-in-law at the time were (at least initially) willing to do so.

JB has had a year to adjust to the fact that Jinger has moved away and he doesn't have the same influence on her and her husband as he had hoped for. He has also had to realize that he doesn't have the same influence on Jill and Derrick. But comparing the two daughters and their lives, he has to see that Jinger is happier and, from all appearances, healthier than Jill.  Which has to be some consolation to JB. Jinger is living a much more stable life right now than Jill or, for that matter, Joy. 

It's kind of interesting/ironic/shows the fates have a sense of humour that the one daughter who expressed an actual opinion several years when the four older girls were asked about whom they might marry, got what she wanted.  Jinger said she wanted to live in a city, and Jill quickly corrected her with a "but you'll gladly accept whatever God has planned for you".  And didn't the Duggars actually issue a clarification that Jinger meant she wanted to live closer to a Wal-Mart or something?  But Jinger got what she wanted - a larger community (not a big city, but according to Google Laredo is definitely bigger than Tontitown), not close to her family.  The other girls were all "we'll see what God has planned for us", and really, I'm not too sure I'm as happy for any of them as I am for Jinger.  Yes, Jessa has a husband who loves her and two cute kids.  But she's living in a house owned by her parents or grandmother.  And her husband works for her father doing...who knows what.  Joy seems to be living with her in-laws as her husband decided to list their house when their c-sectioned baby was two months old, and he's currently building another house from scratch.  And Jill has Derrick, who is somehow affording law school and food and rent on what appears to be no income.  Maybe God likes it when you have an opinion, and He doesn't have to do all the work?

[bigskygirl]

Jeremy may have taken Jinger away from Duggar Land, but he does not seem to mind making money and having his five minutes of fundie fame off of his wife's family name. He is making money because his wife's parents turn into major famewhores who sold out his wife and her siblings for some money on TLC. Sorry Jeremy, you can pretend all you want about you and Jinger being on your own, but you do not mind making money off the Duggar name. Can we say busted.

[Absolom]

40 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

But she's living in a house owned by her parents or grandmother.

Jessa and Ben live in a house they bought from her grandmother.

40 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

And her husband works for her father doing...who knows what.

We don't know what Ben is doing now.  For several months he was interning at a church in Siloam Springs as part of his online ministry program.  Perhaps he's been doing more projects like that.  

I've tended to give up the reminders that Jeremy is NOT a fundamentalist.  He's part of a conservative, evangelical church.  Conservative beliefs do not equal fundie regardless of how heinous many people think they are.  

Edited August 26, 2018 by Absolom

[bigskygirl]

How much did Jessa and Ben pay for the house? I thought they were struggling for money because the news of the molestation scandal has cause financial hardship leading to the one lawsuit.

[Sew Sumi]

Jessa and Ben paid Grandma a buck to basically transfer the deed. 

[bigskygirl]

A whole dollar?! Must be nice to get things handed to you while others work their fingers to the bone to provide shelter and food for themselves and their families. *sarcasm folks sarcasm*

Edited August 26, 2018 by bigskygirl

[Catlyn]

On 8/21/2018 at 8:34 PM, mythoughtis said:

I can’t snark on them for a Keurig. I have one. LOL. I do sometimes use my own coffee in those reusable pods. 

I know they save a lot of hassles at work. We have one and everyone buys their own coffee/tea preference and no one complains that someone left the pot on/with less than a cup and didn't make a new one.  Some makers are using bio plastic for Kuerig cups and there are the reusable pods. The reason why I like it for work is probably why they have them in their homes. Not that I think they would think of the eco friendly solutions.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Catlyn
subject/verb disagreement. Luckily it wasn't a big argument.

[Absolom]

29 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Jessa and Ben paid Grandma a buck to basically transfer the deed.

No, we don't know how much they paid.  The one dollar and other valuable consideration is just the Arkansas jargon for real estate transactions.  It's the same on the documents where I sold my mother's house and you can surely believe I didn't sell that house for a dollar.  Oh it was the same on the documents where they bought the house also and they paid quite a few dollars for it.  :)   

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, bigskygirl said:

Jeremy may have taken Jinger away from Duggar Land, but he does not seem to mind making money and having his five minutes of fundie fame off of his wife's family name. He is making money because his wife's parents turn into major famewhores who sold out his wife and her siblings for some money on TLC. Sorry Jeremy, you can pretend all you want about you and Jinger being on your own, but you do not mind making money off the Duggar name. Can we say busted.

This is how I also feel.

[latetotheparty]

55 minutes ago, Catlyn said:

I know they save a lot of hassles at work. We have one and everyone buys their own coffee/tea preference and no one complains that someone left the pot on/with less than a cup and didn't make a new one.  Some makers are using bio plastic for Kuerig cups and there are the reusable pods. The reason why I like it for work is probably why they have them in their homes. Not that I think they would think of the eco friendly solutions.

As a single person who lives alone a Kuerig would make a lot of sense but I’ve get to find a pod that makes coffee strong enough for me. 

[floridamom]

I believe somewhere it was buried in the Seewald house purchase from Mary Duggar that Jessa and Ben paid $100,000 for that shack of a house on a busy road near the interstate.

Someone here on this site posted the link to the recorded transaction and I read it. Anyone else remember this?

[Sew Sumi]

I believe the $100,000 figure came from the property assessment. No way did the Seewalds have that kind of cash lying about. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[kokapetl]

The $100,000 figure came from the $330 stamp duty paid by Ben and Jessa on their property. The tax rate is $3.30 per $1,000 of actual consideration on transactions that exceed $100.

[BitterApple]

Wow, they paid 100k? Unless there's more land attached than I originally thought, it sounds like Grandma Duggar overcharged them. The house is a tiny dump in a horrible location. Jessa posted one video of Bin and the boys in the backyard and you could barely hear what they were saying because the highway traffic was so loud in the background. If they really had cash like that on hand, they would've been better off investing in a nicer place and taking out a small mortgage.

[Lunera]

On 8/26/2018 at 12:14 PM, bigskygirl said:

Jeremy may have taken Jinger away from Duggar Land, but he does not seem to mind making money and having his five minutes of fundie fame off of his wife's family name. He is making money because his wife's parents turn into major famewhores who sold out his wife and her siblings for some money on TLC. Sorry Jeremy, you can pretend all you want about you and Jinger being on your own, but you do not mind making money off the Duggar name. Can we say busted.

He's a pastor in a tiny church in Laredo, no way would he have gotten amount speaking engagements that he has gotten without the Duggar fame. Also, his mother's charity got tons of exposure after being featured on the show. 

[penbrat]

On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 3:14 PM, bigskygirl said:

Jeremy may have taken Jinger away from Duggar Land, but he does not seem to mind making money and having his five minutes of fundie fame off of his wife's family name. He is making money because his wife's parents turn into major famewhores who sold out his wife and her siblings for some money on TLC. Sorry Jeremy, you can pretend all you want about you and Jinger being on your own, but you do not mind making money off the Duggar name. Can we say busted.

I say good for Jerm.   I am glad to see someone I like make some money off of the Duggars.   I think Jerm and Jing seem in it for the long haul - maybe Jessa and Ben cause I can't ever see him getting the gumption to stand up to her or leave.   Too soon to say about Kendra and her hubs (but I do like her)

[Lukeysboat]

On 8/26/2018 at 3:21 PM, Absolom said:

I've tended to give up the reminders that Jeremy is NOT a fundamentalist.  He's part of a conservative, evangelical church.  Conservative beliefs do not equal fundie regardless

Very true!! There are lots of evangelicals out there who dance, drink, and date.   The lifestyle of a person who attends an evangelical church does not have to remotely resemble the lifestyle of the Duggers or the Bateses.  They are not the same. 

[Sew Sumi]

Jeremy swore off drinking after his disorderly conduct arrest in college. He accepted the courtship model with Jinger, and no woman has come forward as being his ex. We don't know if he dated. As for dancing, I bet they slow dance at home. Will Jinger dance at one of Jeremy's relative's wedding? I guess we'll never know unless someone posts some DL footage.

[Jeeves]

On 8/26/2018 at 1:21 PM, Absolom said:

I've tended to give up the reminders that Jeremy is NOT a fundamentalist.  He's part of a conservative, evangelical church.  Conservative beliefs do not equal fundie regardless of how heinous many people think they are.  

 

11 hours ago, Lukeysboat said:

Very true!! There are lots of evangelicals out there who dance, drink, and date.   The lifestyle of a person who attends an evangelical church does not have to remotely resemble the lifestyle of the Duggers or the Bateses.  They are not the same. 

Thank you both! I think this is what a lot of people miss when they think about Derick and Jill.

Derick is kind of a nutjob, and he found the Duggars attractive enough that he reached out to Jim Bob to be his "prayer partner". But I've always thought that Derick, who grew up as a mainstream evangelical, didn't really understand how different the Duggars' belief system was, from what he knew as a Southern Baptist. He was sitting there in Nepal (or somewhere Himalayan), all into being a missionary for Jesus, and probably imbibing the scrubbed version of the Duggars that TLC presents.

I'd bet a couple of good dinners that Derick honestly thought that Jill would be like the young women her age he'd grown up with, and gone to school and church and college with. Except, he thought, that Jill had been reared with an extra dose of holiness and devotion to Jesus and was like him in wanting to go be a missionary. 

Let's think about the young women who were Derick's peers at that time. By the time she's into her 20's, a typical Arkansas Southern Baptist woman has been living a mainstream life. She's gone to school, and probably to college, held jobs, had friends, has hobbies and interests of her own. She may be into horses, or fashion, or music. She probably goes to movies with friends, has cookouts, has dated and either is still dating or has married. She doesn't have to be escorted by an accountability partner when she leaves the house. If she dresses like a fashion disaster, it's down to her own taste and not a rule imposed by her parents. She probably has had her own home for awhile, either rented or owned, shared with roommates or as a married woman, or on her own. She may be very devout, or a more of a believer and regular church-goer; she may dance and drink socially although not hang out at bars all the time.

Just think of all the skills, including social skills, that a young woman living that kind of life, develops between the ages of, say 13 and 24. And then think of how few of those experiences and skills Jill possessed when she married Derick.

I believe Derick expected Jill to be on a par with those normal Southern Baptist women, somebody who'd be eligible, after taking some college-level coursework, to apply along with him to the IMB to be missionaries. I blame him for letting Jim Bob and Jill rush him into an engagement and covenant (!) marriage, while he was still pretty newly returned from abroad and still IMO fatally naive about the reality of the Duggars and who Jill was. I think he was dazzled by the prospect of being married and getting to have teh sex, and the Duggars' affluence and status, and celebrity, which all fit in with his rosy view of his future as a missionary serving Jesus. With a devoted wife who he acquired without going through all the cr*p that one can experience with regular dating. (I wonder if Derick was really bad at dating. Just saying.)

I also think the first year or so of marriage must have hit Derick like an oncoming train. He finds out that his wife has been almost incredibly sheltered from the real world, has the emotional development of a 13 year old, and is much less educated than he expected, like maybe junior high school level. She will never ever meet the educational requirements of the IMB and that scuttles the future that he had such ambitions for. What must have appeared at first as an intoxicating adoration of him is revealed as extreme clinginess. She gets pregnant pretty much ASAP, and despite the midwife training he helped her complete, botches her own delivery to the point she's rushed in for an urgent (if not emergent) C-section. He's working a corporate job that he probably hates, and then it's revealed that Crown Prince Joshley sexually abused Jill when she was a small child. 

Derick has stumbled and fumbled and changed course a few times since Joshgate hit. I give him credit for, however badly things went, at least trying to get Jill out of Arkansas in the aftermath of Joshgate, and establish some kind of life that wasn't completely in JB's hip pocket.

Derick didn't grow up in a fundie family. He wasn't lectured on modesty wear, his mother didn't wear frumpers, he didn't need an accountability partner, he went to college like an ordinary guy and must have enjoyed it because he likes going back to OSU and visiting friends and family in Oklahoma. It's too bad that the wife he chose (or let Jim Bob choose for him) isn't the peer that I think he expected. 

On one hand, I don't like his crazy abusive social media posts, and I think he often acts like an immature zealot nutjob. OTOH, I think he's just trying to find a way forward in life in the circumstances he's in. 

[madpsych78]

On 8/30/2018 at 8:39 AM, Jeeves said:

 

Thank you both! I think this is what a lot of people miss when they think about Derick and Jill.

Derick is kind of a nutjob, and he found the Duggars attractive enough that he reached out to Jim Bob to be his "prayer partner". But I've always thought that Derick, who grew up as a mainstream evangelical, didn't really understand how different the Duggars' belief system was, from what he knew as a Southern Baptist. He was sitting there in Nepal (or somewhere Himalayan), all into being a missionary for Jesus, and probably imbibing the scrubbed version of the Duggars that TLC presents.

I'd bet a couple of good dinners that Derick honestly thought that Jill would be like the young women her age he'd grown up with, and gone to school and church and college with. Except, he thought, that Jill had been reared with an extra dose of holiness and devotion to Jesus and was like him in wanting to go be a missionary. 

Let's think about the young women who were Derick's peers at that time. By the time she's into her 20's, a typical Arkansas Southern Baptist woman has been living a mainstream life. She's gone to school, and probably to college, held jobs, had friends, has hobbies and interests of her own. She may be into horses, or fashion, or music. She probably goes to movies with friends, has cookouts, has dated and either is still dating or has married. She doesn't have to be escorted by an accountability partner when she leaves the house. If she dresses like a fashion disaster, it's down to her own taste and not a rule imposed by her parents. She probably has had her own home for awhile, either rented or owned, shared with roommates or as a married woman, or on her own. She may be very devout, or a more of a believer and regular church-goer; she may dance and drink socially although not hang out at bars all the time.

Just think of all the skills, including social skills, that a young woman living that kind of life, develops between the ages of, say 13 and 24. And then think of how few of those experiences and skills Jill possessed when she married Derick.

I believe Derick expected Jill to be on a par with those normal Southern Baptist women, somebody who'd be eligible, after taking some college-level coursework, to apply along with him to the IMB to be missionaries. I blame him for letting Jim Bob and Jill rush him into an engagement and covenant (!) marriage, while he was still pretty newly returned from abroad and still IMO fatally naive about the reality of the Duggars and who Jill was. I think he was dazzled by the prospect of being married and getting to have teh sex, and the Duggars' affluence and status, and celebrity, which all fit in with his rosy view of his future as a missionary serving Jesus. With a devoted wife who he acquired without going through all the cr*p that one can experience with regular dating. (I wonder if Derick was really bad at dating. Just saying.)

I also think the first year or so of marriage must have hit Derick like an oncoming train. He finds out that his wife has been almost incredibly sheltered from the real world, has the emotional development of a 13 year old, and is much less educated than he expected, like maybe junior high school level. She will never ever meet the educational requirements of the IMB and that scuttles the future that he had such ambitions for. What must have appeared at first as an intoxicating adoration of him is revealed as extreme clinginess. She gets pregnant pretty much ASAP, and despite the midwife training he helped her complete, botches her own delivery to the point she's rushed in for an urgent (if not emergent) C-section. He's working a corporate job that he probably hates, and then it's revealed that Crown Prince Joshley sexually abused Jill when she was a small child. 

Derick has stumbled and fumbled and changed course a few times since Joshgate hit. I give him credit for, however badly things went, at least trying to get Jill out of Arkansas in the aftermath of Joshgate, and establish some kind of life that wasn't completely in JB's hip pocket.

Derick didn't grow up in a fundie family. He wasn't lectured on modesty wear, his mother didn't wear frumpers, he didn't need an accountability partner, he went to college like an ordinary guy and must have enjoyed it because he likes going back to OSU and visiting friends and family in Oklahoma. It's too bad that the wife he chose (or let Jim Bob choose for him) isn't the peer that I think he expected. 

On one hand, I don't like his crazy abusive social media posts, and I think he often acts like an immature zealot nutjob. OTOH, I think he's just trying to find a way forward in life in the circumstances he's in. 

^THIS. Derick is also the only one in the family who has never experienced homeschooling as a student. I think he went to public school for K - 12. (Jeremy and Lauren went to college, but they were both homeschooled.)

Are he and Jill the only ones who have a covenant marriage?

[Scarlett45]

11 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Derick has stumbled and fumbled and changed course a few times since Joshgate hit. I give him credit for, however badly things went, at least trying to get Jill out of Arkansas in the aftermath of Joshgate, and establish some kind of life that wasn't completely in JB's hip pocket.

This is the one thing I do give Derrick credit for. At that time I do believe he really cared for Jill and wanted them to have a productive life together, but now it seems as if he’s kind of half there. 

[Sew Sumi]

The missioncation in Danger America was planned before Joshgate hit. Remember, they had already shot an episode in which Derelict and Jill made the announcement to the family, but it was part of the Lost Season that was scrapped after 19 Kids was canceled.

[Scarlett45]

On 9/1/2018 at 2:52 PM, Sew Sumi said:

The missioncation in Danger America was planned before Joshgate hit. Remember, they had already shot an episode in which Derelict and Jill made the announcement to the family, but it was part of the Lost Season that was scrapped after 19 Kids was canceled.

Oh I didn’t know that, thank you.