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S05.E05: Week 3: Part 2

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22 minutes ago, GracieK said:

I don't know if this was directed at me or if my post just happened to fall right before yours in regards to Kendall.  I don't think Kendall is the next member of Mensa or an amazing pure-hearted intellectual.  I just think she is looking for a certain "type" and Joe never struck me as that type.  She, whether you agree or not, projects that she is not into the "ordinary".. taxidermy, ukuleles, picnicking in graveyards.. maybe it's contrived, or maybe she's just different.  My feeling is she's searching for someone who is also different.  Leo ain't it.  I'm sure she already realizes this by now.

I think the way she was quick to accept Leo's date was insensitive to Joe. .but I don't see this as a double standard between the men and the women.  Kenny went on a bunch of dates and kissed 3 women in a night and no one was jumping on him as wrong reasons.  As much as I hated seeing Joe get his feelings hurt, I also did not see all this passion and seriousness between them that would make her accepting another date so egregious.  She probably should have been more up front that she wasn't having serious feelings towards Joe.. but he also should have been more up front that he was having serious feelings. 

Wasn’t directed at you or anyone in particular. It just seems like this board really likes Kendall and was looking for reasons to give her the benefit of the doubt. You may be right about a lack of connection (I’m not really paying attention). But I don’t think Kenny is a good comparison. Crystal ended things with Kenny so he wasn’t with anyone. And I’m sure some of the girls just pursued him to get a rose. Kendall has been with Joe from the start and (connection or not) waited until Leo arrives (and goes on a date with him) before telling Joe he should be pursuing other options, too. I don’t think Kendall is shady, just that if the roles were reversed I could see a girl crying in hysterics and all the others rallying to kick the guy out. A big part of why Kendall doesn’t look awful in this situation is how Joe is handling it. He’s upset, but he’s not going insane and trying to turn people against Kendall or Leo. 

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6 minutes ago, Stan39 said:

Wasn’t directed at you or anyone in particular. It just seems like this board really likes Kendall and was looking for reasons to give her the benefit of the doubt. You may be right about a lack of connection (I’m not really paying attention). But I don’t think Kenny is a good comparison. Crystal ended things with Kenny so he wasn’t with anyone. And I’m sure some of the girls just pursued him to get a rose. Kendall has been with Joe from the start and (connection or not) waited until Leo arrives (and goes on a date with him) before telling Joe he should be pursuing other options, too. I don’t think Kendall is shady, just that if the roles were reversed I could see a girl crying in hysterics and all the others rallying to kick the guy out. A big part of why Kendall doesn’t look awful in this situation is how Joe is handling it. He’s upset, but he’s not going insane and trying to turn people against Kendall or Leo. 

Those are fair points.  I guess I personally don't feel shocked that she accepted a date from someone else because I just didn't see this super strong connection, and Joe himself admitted he hadn't expressed serious feelings toward her.  I do think the way she went about things was insensitive, but they don't seem to communicate like adults so I'm not that surprised that they weren't on the same page.  I like Joe, and I hope he finds someone who is suited for him because from what I've seen he's sweet and funny, and there are lots of girls out there looking for that type of guy.

Edited by GracieK
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5 minutes ago, GracieK said:

Those are fair points.  I guess I personally don't feel shocked that she accepted a date from someone else because I just didn't see this super strong connection, and Joe himself admitted he hadn't expressed serious feelings toward her.  I do think the way she went about things was insensitive, but they don't seem to communicate like adults so I'm not that surprised that they weren't on the same page.  I like Joe, and I hope he finds someone who is suited for him because from what I've seen he's sweet and funny, and there are lots of girls out there looking for that type of guy.

I think we’re on the same page, just different perspectives. And you’re nicer than I am about it. Lol. 

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3 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

Dude, is Kendall blind? Joe, even being there from day 1, is STILL smokin hot and doesn't look too sweaty. He's disturbingly beautiful, and not in the little-boy china-doll way that Jordan does or the weird Fabio-cover way people associate with Leo. He's a real, tangible, hot guy with a great personality and no need for drama.

I just LOVE Joe. I don't think he could carry The Bachelor because he's not loquacious, but I LOVE him here so much and the shots of him looking heartbroken morphed me into Ms. Right Reasons. DO NOT HURT THIS MAN HE IS TOO PURE FOR THIS WORLD. 

If it's possible, I think Joe has even more goodwill toward him now than he did at the start. This scares me. I don't want him to accrue love and then become Bachelor and pull and Arie and reveal himself as an awful tool-box.

Speaking of Grampa Arie and the Beige Nightmare Fiance, wtf are they doing on my TV again? Please banish them forever. I can't stand Amanda, and I am sick of Cardboard Cutout Ben, but those two could make anyone else palatable by comparison.

Why is Colton getting another date?! Stop trying to make Colton happen, show. And while you're at it, stop trying to make Tia happen.

Was Adam sick? Did Raven drink his blood? They both looked sick and gross. Raven and Tia aren't bad people, but they have no class. Say what you want about Becca being boring, but she couldn't look that trashy if she tried.

I love that everyone loves Joe. He is clearly a cast favorite, and that says a lot. Watching Eric go to bat for him, and Jordan supporting him, did my heart good. And the giggle-fest with Jordan and Joe was my favorite thing that went on this season on any Bach show. I was actually giddy. More Joe, please. Less Leo. And if Leo goes at Joe next week physically, I hope they ask Leo to leave. No one is going to survive a go at Grocer Joe in the court of public opinion.

I so don’t want Joe to be TB.  It will ruin my fantasies.

as to Leo, his Kenny G/poor man Fabio ass can play his damn flute and pick his nose. I will march  my hag army right down to paradise.  I figure we will be 500k strong, and armed with melee weapons.  If the go fund me pans out we will equip our older members with bayonet mounted muskets.  Alpha male my ass.  No one messes with Joe!   We will kick your ass so high you will have to take your shirt off to shit.  Back off!

yes, I know this isn’t happening in real-time.

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1 minute ago, Mu Shu said:

as to Leo, his Kenny G/poor man Fabio ass can play his damn flute and pick his nose. I will march  my hag army right down to paradise.  I figure we will be 500k strong, and armed with melee weapons.  If the go fund me pans out we will equip our older members with bayonet mounted muskets.  Alpha male my ass.  No one messes with Joe!   We will kick your ass so high you will have to take your shirt off to shit.  Back off!

yes, I know this isn’t happening in real-time.

 

If Leo thinks he had problems when he and Bekah went at it on twitter after she started to get DMs from girls he has allegedly harassed, just wait till next week when his problems with Joe turn physical, that he looks to have instigated.    Its not going to be a good night for him and I for one can't wait.    

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I can't believe I'm saying this, but the sight of drunk Joe and tipsy Jordan giggling madly was genuinely endearing.

It was my favorite thing ever and especially because they were laughing about how dumb this show is.

When Colton got the date card I was confident this show hates us. Colton is not my person and never will be. Stop trying to make Tia happen. More Eric please!

I think Clare and Benoit's "engagement" was super fake and when they "broke up" she posted a picture of their feet together---I thought it was one of those photos where the woman puts the shoes on her hands and pretends there's another person there. Her instagram has since been scrubbed of any reference to him. I think they were about as real as Marcus' BIP wedding that no one must ever speak of.

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It was weird to see Leo talk and be kind of aggressive with the women since he barely talked on the Bachelorette.

These people are acting like they are in high school making out in front of each other and competing for each other for the sake of roses or the REAL reason: more air time.  It's such juvenile behavior to have to have a guy you have dated once before this show and another time on this show declare he is your boyfriend....a guy who told you a couple of days earlier he didn't know what he wanted.  And the expectation of finding a fiancé on this show? Just because you share some make out time and possibly a fantasy suite date if you hang on that long, doesn't mean that will translate to the real world, especially since other alternatives will then be available.   Yeah it is fun to watch but also cringe-worthy at the same time!

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Hi all. Just wanted to pass on some interesting news. I live 40 miles from where Jordan is from,  (I love him and his silly comments) he is from Crystal River Florida.  On my 5 o’clock news they just did an interview with his father and brother about a run this weekend that Jordan will be at.  It’s about a run the family is hosting for families that have lost children from miscarriage or stillborn children. His brother lost a child. I wish I could go but only to have lunch with Jordan to hear him talk. I could never make a 5k run. 

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21 hours ago, adhoc said:

You know, if you don't have enough film footage to really do justice to two hours, maybe your Tuesday show should only be one hour. Si?

Or, better yet, NO Tuesday show!

During the telenovela (STUPID!), who was the guy who sank to their knees in the sand and yelled out "I am unlovable!" Was that Ben Higgins?

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21 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

My god Joe is beautiful.

oh yay.  Jonny Gelecki showed up in Kenny Gs wig.

He's a god. I'm super attracted to him

- "You have blue diamond eyes." 

- "Well, they're green, but..."??? 

First of all, wtf is a 'blue' diamond? Lolol

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4 minutes ago, ChiMama said:

During the telenovela (STUPID!), who was the guy who sank to their knees in the sand and yelled out "I am unlovable!" Was that Ben Higgins?

Yep it was. I hope that was the extent of his participation this season. Although I'm sure Yuki would be happy to see him.

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3 minutes ago, RealitytvLover said:

He's a god. I'm super attracted to him

- "You have blue diamond eyes." 

- "Well, they're green, but..."??? 

First of all, wtf is a 'blue' diamond? Lolol

Maybe that’s one level above blue steel? Lol.

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I was so super excited when this episode began as I thought that now that Colton and Tia were together we wouldn't have to see them again.  So wrong, so so wrong.  However, I was able to fast forward their scenes, so I saved time watching this.  I missed Colton and his boyfriend/girlfriend stuff, but thankfully so many of you took the bullet for me and watched the whole episode and shared this magic moment.  I agree with others that Colton seems to chase a relationship that will lead to his being on t.v.

It is just so funny to me that these people are so desperate to be in a relationship, but ONLY in a relationship that they start on t.v.  

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SO, because someone has the idea that Leo looks like a guy on the cover of a romance novel, they have to make a "date" about a romance novel/movie?  then have other bach alums "play parts,"  and then have Leo and date pose for a photo for the "cover"?   WTF?  How does this even make sense?  Arie is the main character, but Leo is the guy on the cover?   Stupidest fucking thing ever.  

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I don’t even believe those romance novel cameos were even in Mexico.  They were on a beach, which could have been any beach.  They weren’t shown interacting with any of the current participants, and God knows Yuki would have given a big show of making a fuss over Ben.  It doesn’t make sense to send them there and pay for their accommodations without having them actually being part of the show in some way. 

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23 hours ago, phlebas said:

But Raven is nailing pretty much everything we were all saying at the beginning of Becca's season: Colton is attracted to the spotlight. Aly Raisman is a legend already, Tia was odds-on favorite to be the Bachelorette until Arie dumped Becca, then Colton was all over Becca, and now the spotlight's back on Tia.  And OH LOOK Colton wants to be the next Bachelor.

I'm obviously missing something, because I've heard that logic before, and I don't get it.  Let's say Tia was picked to be Bachelorette.  What fame/gain would Colton get from having dated her for a weekend, and then ended it with her?   I doubt they would have put him on Tia's show (they've used up that gimmick already, of having a contestant already having dated the star), so there only seem to be negatives in terms of how his 'relationship' with her would have been spun.  Or is it purely the notion of Colton's dating preferences being dictated by the spotlight, but not that he himself is looking to increase his fame from it?  

 

21 hours ago, Rainsong said:

 Raven is here to pour cold water on the kindling and we get another episode of Tia Is Conflicted.  Was Tia really ever the It Girl

I could not believe it when Raven actually said such nonsense.

20 hours ago, dbell1 said:

ABC sucks for letting that walking sexual harassment suit Leo anywhere near these people.

And what we've seen so far from his own words in Paradise, is like a direct confirmation that he absolutely could have committed sexual harassment in the real world.

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27 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

I'm obviously missing something, because I've heard that logic before, and I don't get it.  Let's say Tia was picked to be Bachelorette.  What fame/gain would Colton get from having dated her for a weekend, and then ended it with her?   I doubt they would have put him on Tia's show (they've used up that gimmick already, of having a contestant already having dated the star), so there only seem to be negatives in terms of how his 'relationship' with her would have been spun.  Or is it purely the notion of Colton's dating preferences being dictated by the spotlight, but not that he himself is looking to increase his fame from it?  

If he is really the star-f*cker he appeared to be, I assume he was trying to raise his own profile. But who knows? Maybe he's just turned on by being seen with (or seen as) famous people.

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20 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Leo claims to be 31?  I would guess a decade older. 

Totally agree. If Leo is 31, I'm Heidi Klum. (I'm not Heidi Klum.)

19 hours ago, backformore said:

Do grown-ups who are dating have to do the "will you be my girlfriend?"  thing?  It just seems so high school to me. 

THIS. I'm 45 (46 next week!) and have been in plenty of relationships, and none of them have involved anyone asking anyone to be their gf/bf. It sounds like getting pinned in the 50's.  In all of my relationships, there was just a natural evolution to using that title. Their mentality is middle school, so it makes sense for them.

16 hours ago, phlebas said:

Apparently that's a necessary first step to making it "official." There is the initial non-binding offer, then assuming the offer is informally accepted, the couple registers at a courthouse or Justice of the Peace. At that point, they submit all the paperwork to the Dating Registry Council.  After a notice is posted publicly and local citizens have a chance to raise and resolve concerns, the couple are then officially "a thing."

Unfortunately, Colton initiated the process in a different country. There may be a delay upon returning the US, depending on the Macking Extradition Treaties in place with Mexico. It may be easier for him to just ask again at the airport when they get back -- there's normally a place reserved for that between the smoker's lounge and Auntie Em's Pretzels.

By the book, Tia. After all this time, you don't want an Anchor Boyfriend.

I cannot tell you how much I appreciated this post, as a lawyer! Absolutely perfect. I do wonder if there is an acceleration clause if the Bachelorette Handshake is used at some point. ;-)

Leo is creepy. He's that guy that goes right up to where your natural boundary is in any given situation, and then just slowly pushes past it, with the notion, "women like it when men take the lead." He's the kind of guy where if you didn't want to kiss him, and told him that, he'd kiss you anyway a little while later with a "whoops, I just couldn't help myself, you're just so beautiful/attractive/whatever." That's how low-key predators work. They start by slowly pushing past your boundaries until you acclimate to the feeling of having your boundaries breached, then the boundary violations come faster and stronger and you've lost your sense of how to keep your own boundaries.

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23 hours ago, betha said:

Fastest way to turn me off...

”Because I’m an alpha, so...”

wtf. If you have to state your alpha-ness you clearly are not. Is Leo on those female-hating man-first message boards? 

Uggggh Kendall. Please recognize your mistake next week and hope Joe gives you another chance.

I no longer like Kendall due to how she is treating my beloved Joe. She is a fool! Leo is smarmy, but I think all Kendall sees is "bad boy" and "manly." Many women think men like this are exciting when they're actually just jerks. She sees Joe as "nice guy" and is pushing him into the friend zone. 

It's all about Leo's hair and the way he flings it around. Otherwise, I doubt Kendall would look twice at Leo. As mentioned upthread, she is clearly very attracted to Leo. Phht! Joe deserves better. I hope he ends up with someone else and Kendall ends up alone. 

Angela is barely present on this show. Who is she with again? 

I missed the last show and have no idea what happened between Tia and Colton, but he's done a 180. Will it last? I doubt it. Otherwise, why would we have gotten Tia's scene with Raven? 

The French guy is not all that to me. I have no idea why Jenna is so attracted to him, but I'm finding Jordan's commentary quite entertaining. 

Loved Jordan and Joe laughing together!

Edited by Sweet-tea
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Honestly, I dont get the Leo appeal. I actually liked in in Beccas season, but hearing about his bullshit outside the set, and seeing his behavior here, has really turned me off. The guy screams "major creep" in almost every interaction he has with people, and he isnt even all that good looking! Maybe because I rarely like the flowing hair look on guys? Or maybe its just his personality, which is just...is he trying to give Chris a run for his money for biggest asshole on the island? I have no clue what Kendall sees in him. Even if she isnt as into Joe as he is into her, that is a major step down. 

And any guy who calls himself an "alpha male" isnt anything of the kind. As Tywin Lannister once said, "Any man who must say, "I am the king" is no true king."

Poor Joe. If you want any comfort, I bet I can think of a line of women that could cover North America twice that would be ready to comfort you...and see where things go. Also, probably the most I've ever liked Jordan, in either show he has appeared on, is when he hangs out with Joe. Especially this week, when they were both cracking up over the stupid romantic novel date. he actually seemed like a real person, and not some Ken Doll who somehow came to life due to confused black magic. Mostly, Jordan seems like a guy playing a part. I cant imagine actually being in a relationship with him, especially if this is actually how he is. And thats not even considering in his clear rage and jealousy issues. I dont blame Jenna for pulling back. 

Oh goodie, another Colton and Tia date, with even more Colton and Tia drama! Truly, THIS is what we all wanted! Why dont we get more of Eric? Eric seems like a cool guy! 

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A lot of women overlook the nice guys, only to pursue the bad boys, if only to try to change them into nice guys…go figure! 

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With all of the guys who have been there from the start and never gotten a date card, they give it to Colton?! Who just had a date card two weeks ago (probably just a few days in Bachelor time)? I would have been pissed if I were Eric or Joe or any of those dudes or their ladies! I did not need to watch a half hour of build up to a juvenile "will you be my girlfriend tick yes or no" conversation.

Tia: "He makes me feel like I'm the only girl in the room!" Like... for the past two days? Remember when your BFF Becca showed up like literally within the past week and your brand new boyfriend had a meltdown and thought he might leave because he was so in love with her? No, just me?

Leo is nothing but practiced lines and a huge dose of narcissism. The way he was reaching out to touch Chelsea's arm by the pool almost as soon as they sat down made me cringe. And I haven't even read the articles about the sexual harassment allegations. He's got great hair but his face is not attractive. How Kendall could go from kissing beautiful Joe to wide-faced beady eyed Leo is baffling to me. And she may be looking for deeper conversations than what she's getting with Joe, but we didn't see any of that happening with Leo. Just sounded like cut and paste pickup lines.

Ah, poor Jordan. Jenna was so over it at the end there, you could see it in her eyes. And then he had to go and be really sincere and sweet. Dammit.

I do like Benoit though! He and Jenna seemed to really genuinely have fun on their date, it was refreshing. He obviously likes his hot, crazy blondes.

I would be happy to see Jorge and his many business ventures appear on every date from now on... you have set my expectations, producers!

Krystal used her "oh, hope you don't mind staring at my great ass while I casually flip over onto my stomach" move with two different guys tonight.

My laugh out loud moment was Chelsea doing this hilarious half-drunk looking wink at Benoit when he was debating who to hand the date card too. That and her hormones raging when Leo showed up. Cracking me up, but hey, the poor girl has been stuck hanging out with David through the past four episodes (with a side of creepy Nick). 

Joe! My God! Why is he so handsome?! And adorable? I almost even love that he barely has used a single word that is above a second grade reading level. He's always just direct and to the point. Someone asked him how the date made him feel or something and I loved that he responded, "I feel unhappy!" Everything about him is so endearing. I will help you forget about Kendall, Joe! I can be in Chicago in an hour (well, let's make it 11 so I can take a Megabus and save some money).

I love how all of the guys love Joe too. Like every one of them is in his corner. When Chris told him his eyes are blue like diamonds or whatever (despite the fact that they are not blue at all), I thought, that's the most romantic thing we've heard Chris say yet.

I'm also all here for the Joe and Jordan friendship. The two of them cracking up together on the bench filled me with a joy I did not know could be possible from a Bachelor franchise show.

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To all those wondering what Leo’s appeal is, as the kids say, he’s got the BDE (big dick energy).

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15 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

I just LOVE Joe. I don't think he could carry The Bachelor because he's not loquacious

No body could be worse than Chris "the farmer", but Bachelor would be a bad move for Joe.

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7 hours ago, rlc said:

To all those wondering what Leo’s appeal is, as the kids say, he’s got the BDE (big dick energy).

No, he does not. Calling himself an alpha confirmed that and tries way too hard.

Edited by comosedice
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8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

And any guy who calls himself an "alpha male" isnt anything of the kind.

Seriously.   Anyway, isn't it time to shelf that silly little piece of pop psychology right next to  the, "Men are From Mars, Women are From Venus?"   Even inside the animal kingdom the roles aren't that clearly defined.  Any man who self-describes as an alpha male probably also thinks he's hard wired to spread his seed as widely as possible. Never mind that our larger brains should make us capable of resisting animal urges when appropriate, it's all pure bull crap.  BTW, Leo;  Joe owns his own business making him more of a leader than a man who has sex in front of cameras at the direction and orders of another man.  Really, how alpha is that?

I don't mind long hair on a man but Leo has little bitty close set eyes and a sneery mouth, plus he's too chunky for my taste. Actually I don't find any man in paradise particularly attractive this year and that includes Joe, but I wont go into detail about that because I'm afraid of you guys.

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If I were interested in a guy the second he said he was an alpha male I'd be moving on. That is just...eeeeew. Is that supposed to be attractive? It just makes me think he's going to try to force me to do things I don't want to do.

9 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

Leo is creepy. He's that guy that goes right up to where your natural boundary is in any given situation, and then just slowly pushes past it, with the notion, "women like it when men take the lead." He's the kind of guy where if you didn't want to kiss him, and told him that, he'd kiss you anyway a little while later with a "whoops, I just couldn't help myself, you're just so beautiful/attractive/whatever." That's how low-key predators work. They start by slowly pushing past your boundaries until you acclimate to the feeling of having your boundaries breached, then the boundary violations come faster and stronger and you've lost your sense of how to keep your own boundaries.

That is Leo, perfectly defined. He is far more dangerous than your typical predatory male who is very obvious and much easier to avoid. Leo is smooth. He worms his way in, you feel safe with him until he has you alone and you are no longer safe. RUN KENDALL!!!! I hate that she doesn't know the truth about him. This show needs to do better background checks on these assholes. Even on Bachelorette there was something sleazy about him. I wasn't sure what it was then, but now I know.

I love Joe but I don't think he's that hot/good looking. I more like his personality. Looks wise I find him fairly ordinary. I really don't find any of this years crop very attractive, physically. This show is circling the drain for me.

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19 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

I so don’t want Joe to be TB.  It will ruin my fantasies.

as to Leo, his Kenny G/poor man Fabio ass can play his damn flute and pick his nose. I will march  my hag army right down to paradise.  I figure we will be 500k strong, and armed with melee weapons.  If the go fund me pans out we will equip our older members with bayonet mounted muskets.  Alpha male my ass.  No one messes with Joe!   We will kick your ass so high you will have to take your shirt off to shit.  Back off!

yes, I know this isn’t happening in real-time.

I'M IN!

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3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Actually I don't find any man in paradise particularly attractive this year and that includes Joe, but I wont go into detail about that because I'm afraid of you guys.

HOW DARE YOU! 

 

LOL JK

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I guess I'll start with Leo. I know who Leo is, I have met many Leos. Leo thinks that it is his right to do what he wants, and not only that, it is natural for him to do what he wants because he is top of the food chain. No one has commented on when Leo and Kendall were talking and Leo said "Yeah it would bother me if you made out with... Grocery Store Joe." Leo didn't mention Joe because Kendall told Leo about them, Leo didn't randomly pick Joe, Leo picked Joe as an example because he looks down on Joe as a soft spoken, non-confrontational, easy going guy. Leo can't fathom how any female would be attracted to a Joe.

This leads me to Leo's infamous "I'm an alpha so I don't like seeing you with other dudes but I can mack on chicks" conversation with Kendall. Enough has been said about that, but what about Kendall's response? "Oh, yeah, I get that." Do you? Or do you just think Leo is hot? If it was some unattractive guy she'd have said "That's very unfair, toxic, and misogynistic." It's similar to what Jenna said about Benoit's failed engagement, which she said showed that Benoit is open to commitment. Again, if she found Benoit ugly she'd have said something like "He's not ready, doesn't take things seriously, etc." 

Kendall was making up the most bullshit post hoc explanations for her attraction to Leo, trying to convince herself that they're more compatible. Look, you and Joe aren't a great match, but at least admit to yourself that you just want to get into Leo's pants. Kendall also did a very poor job, generally, in communicating with the guys. First, when Leo asked her about connections, you could almost see the gears turning in her head as to how she could not mention Joe because if she did then maybe Leo wouldn't be interested. Then, when she was talking to Joe after the date, she told Joe that maybe he should be putting himself out there. You could tell that she didn't even really believe herself. Anyway, I really don't think Kendall and Joe are a match so if all of this leads to them realizing that then good on them.

Finally, I chuckled a bit when Leo asked Chelsea if she'd go out in the rain with him. Dude, she'd rob a bank if you asked her.

Colton and Tia, I was just on my phone the entire time. I don't care.

Jenna and Benoit, I also don't care. This was one of the most boring episodes in Bachelor franchise history.

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21 hours ago, GracieK said:

they don't seem to communicate like adults so I'm not that surprised that they weren't on the same page

LOL!  I know you were talking about Joe & Kendall, but this sentence pretty much applies to everyone there :)

17 hours ago, backformore said:

Arie is the main character, but Leo is the guy on the cover?

I never read those kind of books, but isn't it the same as how Fabio is on the covers, but he isn't a character in the book?

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51 minutes ago, el diego said:

Kendall was making up the most bullshit post hoc explanations for her attraction to Leo, trying to convince herself that they're more compatible

haha, thanks for using bullshit and post hoc in the same sentence.   Plus, I agreed with you!  

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13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, probably the most I've ever liked Jordan, in either show he has appeared on, is when he hangs out with Joe. Especially this week, when they were both cracking up over the stupid romantic novel date. he actually seemed like a real person, and not some Ken Doll who somehow came to life due to confused black magic. Mostly, Jordan seems like a guy playing a part.

Haha I agree, I said in a previous episode's thread that he reminds me of Schmidt from New Girl. Around the wrong people he can be a complete douche, but around the right people he can be charming and funny (and still weird but in a good way).

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13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Honestly, I dont get the Leo appeal. I actually liked in in Beccas season, but hearing about his bullshit outside the set, and seeing his behavior here, has really turned me off. The guy screams "major creep" in almost every interaction he has with people, and he isnt even all that good looking! Maybe because I rarely like the flowing hair look on guys? Or maybe its just his personality, which is just...is he trying to give Chris a run for his money for biggest asshole on the island? I have no clue what Kendall sees in him. Even if she isnt as into Joe as he is into her, that is a major step down. 

And any guy who calls himself an "alpha male" isnt anything of the kind. As Tywin Lannister once said, "Any man who must say, "I am the king" is no true king."

Poor Joe. If you want any comfort, I bet I can think of a line of women that could cover North America twice that would be ready to comfort you...and see where things go. Also, probably the most I've ever liked Jordan, in either show he has appeared on, is when he hangs out with Joe. Especially this week, when they were both cracking up over the stupid romantic novel date. he actually seemed like a real person, and not some Ken Doll who somehow came to life due to confused black magic. Mostly, Jordan seems like a guy playing a part. I cant imagine actually being in a relationship with him, especially if this is actually how he is. And thats not even considering in his clear rage and jealousy issues. I dont blame Jenna for pulling back. 

Oh goodie, another Colton and Tia date, with even more Colton and Tia drama! Truly, THIS is what we all wanted! Why dont we get more of Eric? Eric seems like a cool guy! 

Setting aside the real life stuff about Leo, just from watching him on the show, I can both see how the girls fell for the routine and see how insincere it is. We get the advantage of seeing him do the exact same routine on each girl, while each girl there only sees the one-on-one time they had with him. It looks obvious to us that he's had A LOT of practice with his moves, which is a red flag, but for them, they might mistake it for a "connection." Especially since they're so desperately looking for one. 

I do think he's a good looking guy, his face quite reminds me of the late great Patrick Swazye and while I'm not into long hair on men, his is certainly eye-catching. BUT, the intense eye contact is unnerving and some his moves made me uncomfortable. I forget who he was kissing on the beach, but at one point, he pushed really hard on the back of her head, a move I could see being repeated in less...tv-friendly situations and without regard for consent. It squicked me out. 

I do think Kendall is making a huge, glaring mistake that will become clear to her pretty quickly. Joe really seems to care about her and she got her head turned by a guy who's basically after every girl there, that's going to blow up in her face. 

Joe and Jordan giggling over the "romantic novel" reenactment was the highlight of the show. Jordan is so much more likable when he's not making stupid speeches and tortured metaphors. 

And God help me, I'm kind of liking Krystal this time around. Her dramatic "the line has been crossed. CROSSED" made me laugh and it seems like the other girls like her. I'm also enjoying Astrid, she's got a very dry humor and seems like a cool person. I hope she and Kevin make it.

Benoit isn't what I'd traditionally find physically attractive, but he's got a way about him. He, like Leo, is also into the extreme, intense eye contact, but I find it more palatable on him. He and Jenna are cute together. Jenna's utterly blank face as Jordan was trying to apologize to her made me laugh. I guess he had no way of knowing how well her date had gone, but it was extremely poor timing to pull her aside while she was still basking in the glow of her date. She was already on the fence about Jordan and it was clear that he was losing in the mental comparison in that moment. 

The less said about Tia and Colton, the better. The show is trying SO hard to make them happen. Between the overexposure to their "story" and the soaring music accompanying the totally adult and normal (snort) "be my girlfriend" moment, they apparently think this is some kind of romantic triumph, when all we're seeing is a desperate woman finally wearing her target down. Not a good look for anyone. 

Also, the whole time she was talking to Raven, I just wanted to reach through the tv and flip her hair over in a side part. Why does she insist on the flat, middle part Morticia look? 

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Regarding Jordan's beach apology, I thought it was pretty good and sincere (especially compared to his rose ceremony apology). The one part I didn't like was the "What's a guy gotta do?" line. Made it seem like Jenna had to pick him because he was apologizing.

Also, can't believe I forgot to comment on Raven's "it girl" statement. What a stupid high school mentality these people have. I'm thinking the insular, tiny world of Bachelor Nation makes these people act like they're teenagers.

Oh, one more thing I forgot to touch on! Joe's appeal really is his innocence and purity. He is untouched by this awful franchise. The less he talks, the better. The general rule of the more we see someone the less we like them is very true on this show. I do think Joe is a stand up guy, and that's why everyone (including the dudes on the show) likes him, but I want him to keep his untouched aura.

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1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

Also, the whole time she was talking to Raven, I just wanted to reach through the tv and flip her hair over in a side part. Why does she insist on the flat, middle part Morticia look? 

A middle part hides your hair extensions better if you have fine hair.   

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6 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

If I were interested in a guy the second he said he was an alpha male I'd be moving on. That is just...eeeeew. Is that supposed to be attractive? It just makes me think he's going to try to force me to do things I don't want to do.

It's a way to excuse future assholish behaviour. "I told you I was an alpha, baby."

1 hour ago, el diego said:

Regarding Jordan's beach apology, I thought it was pretty good and sincere (especially compared to his rose ceremony apology). The one part I didn't like was the "What's a guy gotta do?" line. Made it seem like Jenna had to pick him because he was apologizing.

It would have seemed more sincere if he had done it the next day. Waiting up ALL ALONE to kibosh the end of her date with Benoit was a dick move.

That being said, Benoit belongs with Annaliese. They both reek of desperation.

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17 hours ago, phlebas said:

If he is really the star-f*cker he appeared to be,

Virgin Colton?  God I hate this show.  I did catch Raven telling Tia that Colton was using her or something stupid.  How does Colton get to be the secret spy, the master of illusion, the man for who all of womanhood will bow down to?

Exactly what kind of virgin is he?  We all know there are different levels: You can be a virgin in penis/vagina only where anal sex is A OK.  You can be a virgin who gets multitudes of blow jobs.......

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17 minutes ago, OldWiseOne said:

It would have seemed more sincere if he had done it the next day. Waiting up ALL ALONE to kibosh the end of her date with Benoit was a dick move.

That being said, Benoit belongs with Annaliese. They both reek of desperation.

This a good argument. However, I can also reasonably see Jordan taking that long to truly realize that he needed to apologize. He did want to talk to Jenna before her date but never got a chance.

Very much agree with you re: Benoit. He frames it as being passionate, but it's just desperation. I think his "European" sensibilities (if that's the word?) make that more believable, but as Jordan and Joe were discussing he's French-Canadian, so does it really count? ;)

Edited by el diego
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Ugh! Leo!  Isn't he under investigation for sexual impropriety?  He certainly was forceful on this episode.  I like confident I don't like an asshole.

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Will Colton have his first orgasm in paradise just like Raven did? I can't believe she said that. *eye roll*

The only positive thing I have to say about Leo is he has some purdy hair.

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1 hour ago, OldWiseOne said:

That being said, Benoit belongs with Annaliese. They both reek of desperation.

Yes.

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Kendall is a mystery wrapped in a riddle.  She twists my brain all around!  I used to think she was so smart, but now I don't know!  Maybe she IS really smart but she's also just trying to make the most of being on this show!  Maybe she's trying to build an empire!  A taxidermy empire.  What is she thinking?  I've never met anyone like this.  She's so odd.  I thought she was super intelligent but going for Arie (was she actually going for him or just trying to get screentime?), macking on Joe (I think Joe is adorable and beautiful but they couldn't seem more on different wavelengths - was she just trying to use him for screentime?) and now Leo (she's using Leo to move on from Joe, because she doesn't want to lead Joe on any longer).  Is she Machiavellian?  Don't check my spelling on that.  I'll never figure her out and I don't want to.

3 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

And God help me, I'm kind of liking Krystal this time around. Her dramatic "the line has been crossed. CROSSED" made me laugh and it seems like the other girls like her.

Very much same.  Even her weird selective baby voice doesn't bother me at all.  It's kind of hilarious when she randomly uses it.  I think she's trying hard not to be villainous, and it's working well for her.  She's really entertaining.

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3 hours ago, ByTor said:

 

I never read those kind of books, but isn't it the same as how Fabio is on the covers, but he isn't a character in the book?

I assume that the guy on the cover of a book is  depicting the hero in the story. It's the only visual, so I assume the story is about the people on the cover.  But they were turning a book into a movie, I think? Which didn't make sense to me. Is the hero Arie, who is acting it out? Or Leo,who is posi g for photos? It just seemed so completely pointless, an excuse to have long-haired guy be a guy on the cover of a romance novel. Maybe they're thinking that their audience is into that? 

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19 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Kendall is a mystery wrapped in a riddle.  She twists my brain all around!  I used to think she was so smart, but now I don't know!  Maybe she IS really smart but she's also just trying to make the most of being on this show!  Maybe she's trying to build an empire!  A taxidermy empire.  What is she thinking?  I've never met anyone like this.  She's so odd.  I thought she was super intelligent but going for Arie (was she actually going for him or just trying to get screentime?), macking on Joe (I think Joe is adorable and beautiful but they couldn't seem more on different wavelengths - was she just trying to use him for screentime?) and now Leo (she's using Leo to move on from Joe, because she doesn't want to lead Joe on any longer).  Is she Machiavellian?  Don't check my spelling on that.  I'll never figure her out and I don't want to.

Very much same.  Even her weird selective baby voice doesn't bother me at all.  It's kind of hilarious when she randomly uses it.  I think she's trying hard not to be villainous, and it's working well for her.  She's really entertaining.

Oh yes Kendall is a Machiavelli.  Remember when she laid that psycho babble on Crystal?

and she shoves sawdust I’m dead animal bodies.  Yuck. 

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