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Door County Cherry

S02.E04: Part IV

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17 hours ago, slothgirl said:

I missed the first 5-10 minutes... who was the crazy woman and how did they get hooked up with her?

If I get this right.....Heather ran a background check on Dr. Jeffries Poole.  It was clean except for one malpractice complaint that went nowhere.  The person filing the complaint was the crazy woman.

Edited by Jextella
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25 minutes ago, Jextella said:
1 hour ago, slothgirl said:

I missed the first 5-10 minutes... who was the crazy woman and how did they get hooked up with her?

If I get this right.....Heather ran a background check on Dr. Jeffries.  It was clean except for one malpractice complaint that went nowhere.  The person filing the complaint was the crazy woman.

Dr. Jeffries is the psychiatrist who wrote all the books and started Mosswood.

Dr. Poole was the doctor the police were trying to question and he committed suicide. The crazy lady filed a malpractice complaint against Dr. Poole because she went in for an abortion and he removed her entire uterus. The police were there to get her side of the story. The crazy lady was living in Mosswood at the time. She also said that lots of people in town were helping Mosswood. 

Wild conspiracy theories follow super spoilery:

Spoiler

Who was living in storage bin, Dr. Jeffries, Marin, or both. The two people that Julian murdered (or were possibly murdered by the ponytail guy from Mosswood, making Julian innocent) were taking Julian to his real parent/parents, Dr. Jeffries and Marin. Vera, also a psychiatrist, with the help of the electronic device that she stole from "Inter-Logic?" was able to out mind control Dr. Jeffries and take over his cult. 

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I can't believe Harry agreed to go into the woods with Vera, w/o his gun or phone.  He's smarter than that, he even said he knew she was trying to draw him in, but he would go to try to figure out her scheme.  And drank the tea? 

Come on. 

The father knows something.  The way he abruptly had to get back to weeding. 

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1 hour ago, teddysmom said:

I can't believe Harry agreed to go into the woods with Vera, w/o his gun or phone.  He's smarter than that, he even said he knew she was trying to draw him in, but he would go to try to figure out her scheme.  And drank the tea? 

Come on. 

The father knows something.  The way he abruptly had to get back to weeding. 

I am sure Vera implanted a suggestion in Harry's brain. 

The father is probably telling Vera everything his daughter tells him about the case. I don't understand why the daughter tells her father every detail, I don't think he has any law enforcement background.

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I'm liking this series, but it's too long and starting to feel like it's going to turn out cliche'. We're only halfway through and it's still all a big tease. This could have been at least 2-4 episodes shorter and been more riveting. The performances are good, but they aren't enough to make up for what increasingly feels like another disappointing conclusion (like last season's). 

We now have the requisite male cult leader who probably used his position to sexually assault vulnerable brainwashed newbies.

We have hints that doctors routinely sterilized the women when they got pregnant.

We have a massive town conspiracy (to what purpose? How could it possibly serve the Powers That Be in the town to encourage residents to join an isolated cult and then eliminate the possiblity of kids there? Maybe it's their version of Eugenics... get rid of the town's ne'er do wells and delinquents while stopping them from breeding at the same time)

We've got a mysterious lake that people might be getting "buried" in

And we seem to have hypnosis as a therapy tool (that beating sound has got to be in aid of that) on unsuspecting patients... possible brainwashing there too?

It's all so prurient and titillating, just like last year's hints of sexual slavery and abduction.

I'm interested in what's going on for Vera. I'm still getting a sense that she's a force for good somehow, or wants to be and may not be aware that she's harming. I care about Julian. The child actor is doing great! I don't care a whit about Marin (poor girl, no one caring about her is how she got into this mess). I like Heather, but it's SO obvious that what Marin keeps going on about her "lying to herself" is about her being gay.

I wish EVERY SINGLE DAMN CHARACTER (except Heather and Harry) wasn't suspicious and creepy. Maybe that's why I have trouble seeing Heather's father as being shifty and secretive... it's just too much. They could just change the name to "Trust No One". (If he was really hiding things, he didn't need to go to such lengths to recall the tatoo design)

I think this series would do far better to focus on the psychological development instead of teasing lurid crap (both seasons), especially when sexual deviance and brainwashing are exactly what we expect from a story involving a cult. So the big reveal will be what? ... the cult is exactly what we expect a cult to be? Or that it isn't? When they hinge the entire plot development on this, there's only 2 possible outcomes and one is boring, therefore it must be the other... or maybe not, but I'm starting to not care.

Showrunners: Stop trying to create plot development type suspense as the hook for this show. You made that mistake last season and many of us felt burned that it didn't pay off. Now you're doing it again in a season where there is plenty of psych stuff to carry the show.

Edited by slothgirl
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I definitely think that Heather's dad knows more than he is letting on. I dont know if he is actually in the cult, or just knows more than he is letting on, but there is definitely hiding something connected to the case. 

Come on Harry, dont drink the tea given to you by the cult leader who your investigating out in the woods alone! I know your smarter than that! I guess he got caught up in the moment? Or he just didnt think anything of it? He knows that Vera is sketchy! Even if she has some twisted good intentions, she still is up to something. 

I continue to suspect that Julian is being raised as some kind of nature messiah of some kind. Also, is it a coincidence that the woman in the mental hospital said that her uterus was removed on a commune with no children?

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1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I continue to suspect that Julian is being raised as some kind of nature messiah of some kind. Also, is it a coincidence that the woman in the mental hospital said that her uterus was removed on a commune with no children?

I rewatched this episode. It is totally ridiculous. The part where Harry is stumbling around in the woods, are you kidding me? And Julian being able to contact the detective. And the woman with her uterus removed. This is just awful. 

I will watch it just because I am curious to know the answers to the mystery but it is sort of funny in a weird way. That cult is like an SNL comedy sketch. And Vera needs heavy medication. 

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3 hours ago, slothgirl said:

I like Heather, but it's SO obvious that what Marin keeps going on about her "lying to herself" is about her being gay.

Do you mean you think she isn't gay? Because she seems pretty self aware that she is gay, and that she is attracted to Marin. She hasn't come out to her father yet in the flashbacks, but I don't see her deceiving herself about this. Maybe Heather is lying to herself about the possibility of a romantic future with Marin, who seems to be bi or experimenting.

5 hours ago, teddysmom said:

I can't believe Harry agreed to go into the woods with Vera, w/o his gun or phone.  He's smarter than that, he even said he knew she was trying to draw him in, but he would go to try to figure out her scheme.  And drank the tea? 

He's smart, but he's also terminally curious. He may have a self-destructive streak, and being in Keller has triggered some serious pain. Putting all that together and I can kind of see how he might act against his better judgement. 

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16 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

This show is sort of disappointing. Nothing is happening. And it seems sort of preposterous in a lot of ways. 

I'll watch through to the end, but it did jump the shark, as the saying goes.

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18 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

And it seems sort of preposterous in a lot of ways. 

I don't think it's any more preposterous than real life. Now, if the Holy Rock suddenly came alive or started to talk, THAT would be preposterous.

I just wish all the episodes were available to binge watch since there's no book to spoil myself with.

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Like I said last week. I'm tired of a series taking forever and a day to explain a subplot. Ambrose's childhood flashbacks with his mentally ill mother. How many times will we see him standing in that burning kitchen? Why did Ambrose let Vera trick him? If he did it on purpose. What did he learn if he cannot remember anything? I don't know if Heather's father knows anything because everyone is a suspect in that damn town. Has Heather dated anyone since her one sided love with Miran? When will the DNA test be done? I'm still interested but I'm also starting to get annoyed. 

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4 hours ago, tpel said:

Do you mean you think she isn't gay? Because she seems pretty self aware that she is gay, and that she is attracted to Marin. She hasn't come out to her father yet in the flashbacks, but I don't see her deceiving herself about this. Maybe Heather is lying to herself about the possibility of a romantic future with Marin, who seems to be bi or experimenting.

I was thinking that maybe Heather wasn't quite ready to face it back in the flashbacks and might have tried to pretend she was also just experimenting or Bi. It was the only reason I could think of why Marin brings it up when she does. What else could Heather be lying to herself about when it comes to affection for Marin?

1 hour ago, Simba122504 said:

Like I said last week. I'm tired of a series taking forever and a day to explain a subplot. Ambrose's childhood flashbacks with his mentally ill mother. How many times will we see him standing in that burning kitchen? Why did Ambrose let Vera trick him? If he did it on purpose. What did he learn if he cannot remember anything? I don't know if Heather's father knows anything because everyone is a suspect in that damn town. Has Heather dated anyone since her one sided love with Miran? When will the DNA test be done? I'm still interested but I'm also starting to get annoyed. 

Yes, they are breaking the cardinal rule of suspense... you can't just keep adding questions. You have to throw the audience a bone every now and then. Answer something every now and then. Make one thing clear but leave some more uncertainty. They just keep throwing in everything they can think of to muddy the waters and raise more questions. I guess we did learn one thing... it seems maybe Harry's mom didn't die in the fire itself.

It reminds me of the demise of the original X-files. It got so convoluted that I just didn't care anymore. Or Lost. Even when they claim that all will become clear before the end, if you don't get ANYTHING answered until the very end, you lose interest. They need to realize it's no different from a relationship. There's keeping some mystery and allowing for discovery of your partner over time, and then there's those people you date where you can't take ANYTHING at face value and instead of piquing your interests, it just increases your mistrust and you walk away (hopefully).

And I'm with you on how EVERYONE is a damn suspect.

Edited by slothgirl
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To me, this show is just fine.  The issue is that today many of us are used to binge watching shows.  This is the type of show that's probably better when you binge watch. 

But this show does hold my interest.

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After nothing happened last week, almost too much happened this week. I had a hard time believing that Ambrose would go into the woods with Vera and especially drink the tea, which I assume was drugged.

I have no idea what the storage unit was for, but I assume the stuff in there was being kept for wherever the 2 victims were taking Julian.

Why haven’t they run a DNA test to see who Julian’s real mom is? 

Heather’s dad is just incredibly suspicious, his behavior is so off. I have no doubt he is holding something back and will be heavily involved in the plot.

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The cult/Vera seems to teach that everyone on the outside lies. It keeps coming up. So, maybe Marin is referring to something specific when she says Heather is lying to herself (and for a coherent narrative, she probably should be), but it's also possible that the as the cult is trying to isolate Marin from the people in her life, they are telling her Heather is a liar. If Marin believes Heather hasn't told her any lies, either the cult pivoted to "she's lying to herself; everyone does until they get enlightened here" or whatever (I'd be a terrible cult leader) or Marin herself, wanting to draw closer to this place she feels a sense of belonging, has  to believe "she's a liar" is right so maybe she got to "she lies to herself" on her own. Either way, we see the "they're all liars" come up often. It's a source of conflict for Julian, too.  

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22 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I don't understand why the daughter tells her father every detail, I don't think he has any law enforcement background.

That I do get, actually.  If I were a police officer, I'd talk about my cases with my mother even though she has no background in law enforcement.  Some people find using a sounding board useful.

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19 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

And Julian being able to contact the detective.

I don't know about juvenile detention centers, but generally speaking, prisoners are allowed phone calls, and Ambrose did give Julian his number.  The call was probably monitored, which may or may not be significant.

18 hours ago, tpel said:

Do you mean you think she isn't gay? Because she seems pretty self aware that she is gay, and that she is attracted to Marin. She hasn't come out to her father yet in the flashbacks, but I don't see her deceiving herself about this. Maybe Heather is lying to herself about the possibility of a romantic future with Marin, who seems to be bi or experimenting.

I took it to mean she hadn't really admitted it to herself yet, even though she knows she's attracted to Marin.

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Why haven’t they run a DNA test to see who Julian’s real mom is? 

Probably because they need a court order, and to get one, they need more evidence that Vera isn't his real mother.

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14 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:
22 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I don't understand why the daughter tells her father every detail, I don't think he has any law enforcement background.

That I do get, actually.  If I were a police officer, I'd talk about my cases with my mother even though she has no background in law enforcement.  Some people find using a sounding board useful.

Even if you lived in a small town and your mother knew or were friends with all the people you are investigating. It seems like a breach of privacy since a person would tell the police things you normally wouldn't tell regular people and you would expect the police not to blab it all over town.

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55 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Even if you lived in a small town and your mother knew or were friends with all the people you are investigating. It seems like a breach of privacy since a person would tell the police things you normally wouldn't tell regular people and you would expect the police not to blab it all over town.

Even then.  I probably shouldn't, but I probably would.  I might not use names, though.

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When Vera was in the jail talking with Julian, did I hear them correctly that Julian asked whether he could go home now that he passed his test?  What was the test?  Being "kidnapped" and killing his kidnappers? 

We are no closer to finding out why Julian killed those people with the tea.  Speaking of which, did the detective really forget what Julian's tea did to that couple?  And did it occur to him that Julian could only have learned about murder tea from VERA?  WTF?

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The test was the Psych Evaluation where he said you split in two when you lie, then knocked the chair over and went psycho. I don't think he passed.

Edited by AnimeMania · Reason: misspelling
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20 hours ago, slothgirl said:

I was thinking that maybe Heather wasn't quite ready to face it back in the flashbacks and might have tried to pretend she was also just experimenting or Bi. It was the only reason I could think of why Marin brings it up when she does. What else could Heather be lying to herself about when it comes to affection for Marin?

 

She could be lying to herself about Marin returning that affection.  Heather is way more into Marin than Marin is into Heather.

Marin could think that Heather is ignoring her relationship with Heather's father.  The way they spoke on the road was not how my friends' fathers would speak to me when I was growing up.

There's lots of things that could be contained in that "you are lying to yourself" .

How come we're not wondering how the detective got back from Mosswood and into his cozy motel room?

Maybe this is crazy, but I wouldn't mind having a baby rock around the house.  Bet Heather's dad has one in the basement! dun dun dun dun......

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5 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

How come we're not wondering how the detective got back from Mosswood and into his cozy motel room?

Perhaps whoever paid for the motel room and any video footage the motel has, might provide some clues to what happened to him.

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21 hours ago, Neurochick said:

To me, this show is just fine.  The issue is that today many of us are used to binge watching shows.  This is the type of show that's probably better when you binge watch. 

But this show does hold my interest.

I watched the first season on Netflix a while ago (first I'd heard of it) and enjoyed it while binge watching.  We could always do the same with this season by recording them all and waiting until the end of the season to watch them. I am truly tempted to do that .

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46 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Perhaps whoever paid for the motel room and any video footage the motel has, might provide some clues to what happened to him.

I'm pretty sure it will be a topic for next week's episode. I just assume Vera got help; taking him there from the cabin, although I suppose it's possible that he got himself back in a fugue or disassociative state

 

7 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

Even if you lived in a small town and your mother knew or were friends with all the people you are investigating. It seems like a breach of privacy since a person would tell the police things you normally wouldn't tell regular people and you would expect the police not to blab it all over town.

I don't think there's any legal expectation of privacy, or guarantee of such, in a police inquiry. The police keep things private for their own interests to protect the investigation, not to protect the individuals being investigated, or anyone surrounding the case. There are probably department guidelines that vary widely as to speaking about a case and possibly jeopardizing it. But they aren't doctors or counselors... as an agency, they can probably tell anyone they want about the case as long as they don't reveal information that is protected by some other legal means. As individuals, they may be restricted from it, but it's a "look the other way" departmental offense because everyone does it.

Also, small towns are where people blab all over town the MOST! The police are probably the LAST to know what's going on. haha

1 hour ago, meep.meep said:

She could be lying to herself about Marin returning that affection.  Heather is way more into Marin than Marin is into Heather.

Marin could think that Heather is ignoring her relationship with Heather's father.  The way they spoke on the road was not how my friends' fathers would speak to me when I was growing up.

There's lots of things that could be contained in that "you are lying to yourself" .

She specifically brings up "you are lying to yourself" just after Heather tried to kiss her, Marin rebuffed her saying "I thought we said we aren't going to do that anymore" and Heather saying ok, fine I'll drop it. THAT"S when Marin said you are lying to yourself. I don't see how you can infer that it's about Heather's father from that. Sure, could be about ANYTHING... but it definitely got triggered by Heather first trying to kiss her and then agreeing to drop it. I think it's more likely about Heather not admitting that she won't be able to drop it and pretend it's not an issue.

I can't remember the other times Marin's said that Heather was lying to herself, but I am considering a binge watch this weekend to see if some early things make more sense with what we have learned so far revealed

Edited by slothgirl
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On 8/24/2018 at 7:01 PM, slothgirl said:

I'm pretty sure it will be a topic for next week's episode. I just assume Vera got help; taking him there from the cabin, although I suppose it's possible that he got himself back in a fugue or disassociative state

 

She specifically brings up "you are lying to yourself" just after Heather tried to kiss her, Marin rebuffed her saying "I thought we said we aren't going to do that anymore" and Heather saying ok, fine I'll drop it. THAT"S when Marin said you are lying to yourself. I don't see how you can infer that it's about Heather's father from that. Sure, could be about ANYTHING... but it definitely got triggered by Heather first trying to kiss her and then agreeing to drop it. I think it's more likely about Heather not admitting that she won't be able to drop it and pretend it's not an issue.

I can't remember the other times Marin's said that Heather was lying to herself, but I am considering a binge watch this weekend to see if some early things make more sense with what we have learned so far revealed

Definitely some mystery there, because there's nothing ambiguous about how Heather acts with Marin. But we see Marin flirting and blatantly propositioning men in front of Heather. That might be one thing Heather is lying to herself about. But it probably also something else. Must be something else to her mother's death. Dad was sidestepping issues.

I'm enjoying this season. Each episode keeps me at the edge of my seat. I also like having the whole story wrapped up in 8 episodes or so. I know the first season had issues, but the story was engrossing and at the end, it was wrapped up, no sequel needed.

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When Vera was attending to Ambrose's ankle and she pulled too tight, he gasped and I was sure we were going to go down the S&M story line again. That story line in the first season disturbed me and never made sense to me. Is anyone else only looking at the Ambrose character wondering when that story line is going to return? Yuck.

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I have a very hard time distinguishing between the police chief and Heather's dad.

My speculation about Marin is that

Spoiler

Heather's dad is Julian's father--though Julian's darker complexion and nearly black hair don't suggest it, but this is TV where those things often don't matter. Heather's dad (OK, I just looked up his name; it's Jack) seemed a little too comfortable/close with Marin when he was talking with her on the road, touching her tattoo. The way he abruptly ended his and Heather's conversation about Marin was suspicious, like he didn't want her digging too deeply.

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1 hour ago, bilgistic said:

I have a very hard time distinguishing between the police chief and Heather's dad.

My speculation about Marin is that

  Hide contents

Heather's dad is Julian's father--though Julian's darker complexion and nearly black hair don't suggest it, but this is TV where those things often don't matter. Heather's dad (OK, I just looked up his name; it's Jack) seemed a little too comfortable/close with Marin when he was talking with her on the road, touching her tattoo. The way he abruptly ended his and Heather's conversation about Marin was suspicious, like he didn't want her digging too deeply.

I think it's also possible that:

Spoiler

He is MARIN'S dad. Maybe what Heather is lying to herself about is her father's affair with Marin's mother and the possibility that they could be sisters.

I hope he wasn't having a thing with a high school aged Marin. But it would explain a lot. My issue with that is that he didn't have to remember the tattoo design, and draw if for Heather, if he's trying to hide everything. 

Do we actually need to use spoiler tags for unspoiled speculation?

Edited by slothgirl
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5 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I have a very hard time distinguishing between the police chief and Heather's dad.

Me too. Every time the chief is on it takes me a bit to realize he's not Heather's dad.

Anyway, that scene with Heather's dad and Marin made me think it's going to turn out that he killed her, maybe accidentally, and the whole thing with the cult, at least as it relates to her, is going to end up being a red herring. I'm probably wrong about that but it was just the impression I got for whatever reason.

I also don't get what Heather is supposedly lying to herself about. To me it seems like she's the one actually being honest, and if anyone's lying to themselves, it's Marin.

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Early-on, I thought the dad was involved, and now I'm not so sure.  Marin's tattoo seemed too foreign to him.

When Ambrose arrived at Heather's and Jack's house, there was a guy walking his dog and Jack flagged him and pointed Ambrose out.   It gave the appearance that Jack wanted this person to see who Ambrose was so he could keep tabs.  On the flip side, it could be this person is actually watching Heather's dad for some reason and Jack flagging him was coincidental.

Julian's father has to be the guru guy if looks have anything to do with it.  He's the only one Julian looks like in any small amount. 

Also, we're seeing more sex stuff come up.  The woman in the asylum said the cult likes pretty people her uterus was removed without her consent; and she said the cult people like pretty people (or something like that).  The guru was investigated for sexual offenses of some sort; the doctor who killed himself was an obstetrician there aren't any kids in the cult with members opting to focus "the work" instead; dead parents, bad parents, missing parents, etc.  Lots of things having to do with sex and fertility and parentage.

Vera made mention of how special Julian is.  Could be he is the spawn of the guru and some appointed special woman...which I take to be Marin (assuming the timeline works).  She was pretty, and likely fertile at the time, etc.

My sense at this point is that Interlogix is involved somehow with some sort of undercover testing and/or breeding program.  The dairy cow farmer is involved somehow (otherwise what a random segue!).   The guru guy is in partnership with Interlogix.  The commune is the cover, and the commune's members are pawns. Vera included.

...I generally stink at predictions, but this is what I come up with now :)

Edited by Jextella
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5 hours ago, Jextella said:

My sense at this point is that Interlogix is involved somehow with some sort of undercover testing and/or breeding program. 

Wouldn't this suggest that you would want the cult to have more kids not no kids?

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3 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Wouldn't this suggest that you would want the cult to have more kids not no kids?

Neither.  They are testing subjects only.  Again, just a stinkie hypothesis.

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I was going to do a rewatch of the early episodes to look for clues and found that it is NOT available on demand with my cable company.

Poo

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When Heather is watching the tape of a session at Mosswood, is that Vera or Marin, or someone else, in profile just as the film ends?

On a completely unrelated note, every time someone mentions Niagara Falls, I keep expecting Ambrose to spin around and break into the old Three Stooges skit (slowly I turned...)

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I think it was Marin in the video.

Also, I think the mustachioed guy was in the video. A few episodes ago, he had the party to which Jack invited Ambrose. He looks like an older Jason Sudeikis with a bushy mustache.

...which is also why I think Jack is involved somehow.

Edited by bilgistic · Reason: I wanted to spell "mustachioed" the fancy way.
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On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 10:19 AM, AnimeMania said:

Even if you lived in a small town and your mother knew or were friends with all the people you are investigating. It seems like a breach of privacy since a person would tell the police things you normally wouldn't tell regular people and you would expect the police not to blab it all over town.

Well, you kind of said it right there-it's a small, small town. Everyone is going to end up knowing everything anyways. But I think many of them already do. You don't have a "cult/commune" that close for that long & not have some go there out of curiosity. Or gossip about it.

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On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 2:33 PM, bilgistic said:

I have a very hard time distinguishing between the police chief and Heather's dad.

My speculation about Marin is that

  Reveal hidden contents

Heather's dad is Julian's father--though Julian's darker complexion and nearly black hair don't suggest it, but this is TV where those things often don't matter. Heather's dad (OK, I just looked up his name; it's Jack) seemed a little too comfortable/close with Marin when he was talking with her on the road, touching her tattoo. The way he abruptly ended his and Heather's conversation about Marin was suspicious, like he didn't want her digging too deeply.

Lol. Well Heather's dad is Tracy Letts, otherwise known as Mr. Carrie Coon. So If you think Jack knows more about Vera than he lets on....he does. And the chief is Jay O Sanders, who has been in practically everything.

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On 8/23/2018 at 12:37 PM, slothgirl said:

I'm liking this series, but it's too long and starting to feel like it's going to turn out cliche'. We're only halfway through and it's still all a big tease. This could have been at least 2-4 episodes shorter and been more riveting. The performances are good, but they aren't enough to make up for what increasingly feels like another disappointing conclusion (like last season's). 

We now have the requisite male cult leader who probably used his position to sexually assault vulnerable brainwashed newbies.

We have hints that doctors routinely sterilized the women when they got pregnant.

We have a massive town conspiracy (to what purpose? How could it possibly serve the Powers That Be in the town to encourage residents to join an isolated cult and then eliminate the possiblity of kids there? Maybe it's their version of Eugenics... get rid of the town's ne'er do wells and delinquents while stopping them from breeding at the same time)

We've got a mysterious lake that people might be getting "buried" in

And we seem to have hypnosis as a therapy tool (that beating sound has got to be in aid of that) on unsuspecting patients... possible brainwashing there too?

It's all so prurient and titillating, just like last year's hints of sexual slavery and abduction.

I'm interested in what's going on for Vera. I'm still getting a sense that she's a force for good somehow, or wants to be and may not be aware that she's harming. I care about Julian. The child actor is doing great! I don't care a whit about Marin (poor girl, no one caring about her is how she got into this mess). I like Heather, but it's SO obvious that what Marin keeps going on about her "lying to herself" is about her being gay.

I wish EVERY SINGLE DAMN CHARACTER (except Heather and Harry) wasn't suspicious and creepy. Maybe that's why I have trouble seeing Heather's father as being shifty and secretive... it's just too much. They could just change the name to "Trust No One". (If he was really hiding things, he didn't need to go to such lengths to recall the tatoo design)

I think this series would do far better to focus on the psychological development instead of teasing lurid crap (both seasons), especially when sexual deviance and brainwashing are exactly what we expect from a story involving a cult. So the big reveal will be what? ... the cult is exactly what we expect a cult to be? Or that it isn't? When they hinge the entire plot development on this, there's only 2 possible outcomes and one is boring, therefore it must be the other... or maybe not, but I'm starting to not care.

Showrunners: Stop trying to create plot development type suspense as the hook for this show. You made that mistake last season and many of us felt burned that it didn't pay off. Now you're doing it again in a season where there is plenty of psych stuff to carry the show.

I'm trying to decide if I really want to invest in this show. I'd have to catch up. Just saw a portion of one last night. I tried Season One and it just wan't that intriguing to me.  The series seems to have a good premise, decent actors, but, then it just falls apart on script and for some reason just bores the hell out of me.  I wish it didn't.  Do you think it would help if I start fresh with Season Two and start with the first episode? 

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On 8/30/2018 at 1:02 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Do you think it would help if I start fresh with Season Two and start with the first episode? 

We have only one character that crosses over from Season One and they really toned down his personality. This is original plot and doesn't had to mirror what the author wrote. The storyline is much more coherent than Season One's.

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On 8/24/2018 at 6:21 PM, AnimeMania said:

Perhaps whoever paid for the motel room and any video footage the motel has, might provide some clues to what happened to him.

I'm doing a fast catch up of episodes.  After Vera handed Ambrose that tea, which he was crazy to drink, she passed some kind of object from her hand into a cloth napkin.  (Remote for the clicking device?) Either that or he was WAS drugged.  Maybe, both. 

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On 8/30/2018 at 1:02 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I wish EVERY SINGLE DAMN CHARACTER (except Heather and Harry) wasn't suspicious and creepy. Maybe that's why I have trouble seeing Heather's father as being shifty and secretive... it's just too much. They could just change the name to "Trust No One". (If he was really hiding things, he didn't need to go to such lengths to recall the tatoo design)

Ah...straight from the book: "How to Write a TV Screenplay".  Also repeated in that best seller: "You Can Write for TV and Be Famous".   Short books, but a key point was:  make every character a suspect.  And if you are stuck, pop up a previously unrevealed character and make him/her the bad guy (consider Jessica Biel in a final episode reveal cameo, eh?).  Asmiov used to do that in his novels..and it was infuriating. 

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