S08.E03: Unexpected/ S08.E04: Jinger and Jermey's Little Secret

[louannems]

4 minutes ago, Loves2Dance said:

Jessa thinks she's cute dropping the, "It must be a Millennial thing." Girl, no...

Did you notice her face when she said that?  She stuck her lips way out and frowned, "It must be a millennial thing".  She really looked bitchy!

[Lunera]

If the rumors that have been floating around about Jana are true, then she already has a guy that Boob disapproves of. I think Laura is there so to watch Jana at all times so that she doesn't step out of line, she probably even monitors her phone usage.

I think it's called tomato staking.  I remember hearing about it on a fundie blog and Michelle has been accused of doing this to Jana before.

Something weird is definitely up with Laura and the Duggars.

http://www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com/ch07.php

[SunnyBeBe]

21 minutes ago, Lunera said:

If the rumors that have been floating around about Jana are true, then she already has a guy that Boob disapproves of. I think Laura is there so to watch Jana at all times so that she doesn't step out of line, she probably even monitors her phone usage.

I think it's called tomato staking.  I remember hearing about it on a fundie blog and Michelle has been accused of doing this to Jana before.

Something weird is definitely up with Laura and the Duggars.

http://www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com/ch07.php

This theory sounds like it may be the most logical. And if it is the case,  I realize that it's a crazy idea, but, why wouldn't Jana just pack a bag, call a cab and leave...catch a flight or whatever to where her love interest is....get a job, apartment....she has to know that with a few strokes on her phone, she'd have plenty of bucks raised to carry her financially, if money is the problem. I mean, she could even do it, when they are out of town or asleep.  And when Laura's in the shower. lol 

[lookeyloo]

7 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

This theory sounds like it may be the most logical. And if it is the case,  I realize that it's a crazy idea, but, why wouldn't Jana just pack a bag, call a cab and leave...catch a flight or whatever to where her love interest is....get a job, apartment....she has to know that with a few strokes on her phone, she'd have plenty of bucks raised to carry her financially, if money is the problem. I mean, she could even do it, when they are out of town or asleep.  And when Laura's in the shower. lol 

@Churchhoney - who is on hiatus from this forum - has told us why that is very very hard to do and maybe Jana doesn't have the strength to do it.

[Westiepeach]

1 hour ago, Happyfatchick said:

@Portia, I always say my husband looks like Walter (Jeff Dunham’s Walter).  He’s really not a heartless, grumpy old fart (and thankfully, the kids and grands all disregard the RBF) - but he sure LOOKS the part.  I feel ya.  I too suffer RBF.  I used to sit and practice making my lips defy gravity.  Nowadays, I just try to smile and make sure it reaches my eyes.

Husband told me my RBF looks like Grumpy Cat. So there. 

[Sew Sumi]

32 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

This theory sounds like it may be the most logical. And if it is the case,  I realize that it's a crazy idea, but, why wouldn't Jana just pack a bag, call a cab and leave...catch a flight or whatever to where her love interest is....get a job, apartment....she has to know that with a few strokes on her phone, she'd have plenty of bucks raised to carry her financially, if money is the problem. I mean, she could even do it, when they are out of town or asleep.  And when Laura's in the shower. lol 

Ever read the Allegory of the Cave? 

[DangerousMinds]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, Jessa is surprising me.  If she could maintain a family of 4 for a couple of years, she might have the time to develop some cool interests.   Oh, I read that Jinger has some pretty cool and non-fundie friends in the TLC family.  I guess that's for the Media thread. I'll have to go over there with this. I'm not sure it's true. 

When has Jessa ever had ANY interests? Aside from curling her hair and troweling on makeup?

[SunnyBeBe]

2 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Ever read the Allegory of the Cave? 

Oh yes....I get it.  It's tough to break free when you are so indoctrinated, that's for sure.  I grew up fundie too, but, not as affected as the Duggars.  And, I knew others who were similarly situated.  But, it is possible.  I've seen others do it, as did I to a certain extent.  There are also people who leave their families and security  who have even more at stake, like those from polygamous sects where their lives are at risk.  And, if Jana had a love interest, who wanted her to break free......I'm not sure why she wouldn't do it. Religion or not. Family or not.  JMO.

[Marthalord]

1 hour ago, Lunera said:

If the rumors that have been floating around about Jana are true, then she already has a guy that Boob disapproves of. I think Laura is there so to watch Jana at all times so that she doesn't step out of line, she probably even monitors her phone usage.

I think it's called tomato staking.  I remember hearing about it on a fundie blog and Michelle has been accused of doing this to Jana before.

Something weird is definitely up with Laura and the Duggars.

http://www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com/ch07.php

The rumors about her seeing a divorced man came from a gossip site that is pure fiction. 

[Lunera]

Just now, Marthalord said:

The rumors about her seeing a divorced man came from a gossip site that is pure fiction. 

I have heard those before, not sure if I believe it. I meant the one about Jana seeing a man named Brandon. A woman commented on the Duggar page claiming she is friends with a woman whose brother is supposedly Jana's beau. She claims she saw pictures of them together and they looked happy. No mention of the guy being divorced. I hope the rumors are true. 

[Loves2Dance]

3 hours ago, louannems said:

Did you notice her face when she said that?  She stuck her lips way out and frowned, "It must be a millennial thing".  She really looked bitchy!

I don't know if I would say bitchy, more like, "See I said something trendy..." And I'm over here like, "Nah girl, that is not how we do it." 

3 hours ago, Lunera said:

If the rumors that have been floating around about Jana are true, then she already has a guy that Boob disapproves of. I think Laura is there so to watch Jana at all times so that she doesn't step out of line, she probably even monitors her phone usage.

I think it's called tomato staking.  I remember hearing about it on a fundie blog and Michelle has been accused of doing this to Jana before.

Something weird is definitely up with Laura and the Duggars.

http://www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com/ch07.php

So she's like the Jessica Willis of the family? If this is true, I'll get my pitchfork ready and we can go free her! 

[BitterApple]

Regarding Jana, I don't know what to believe as far as the courtship rumors, but I do think if she had a boyfriend she wouldn't want her relationship played out on tv, Boob-approved or not. 

[xwordfanatik]

3 hours ago, Loves2Dance said:

Jessa thinks she's cute dropping the, "It must be a Millennial thing." Girl, no...

Complete with the eye roll.  Jessa thinks she's all that, and can't stand it when someone else gets more attention.

[zenme]

So, if it's cool enough during the photo shoot for sweaters and jackets, and the wind is blowing, then Jessa needs to put socks on Henry instead of leaving him barefoot. 

[Teresa]

One thing I will say about Jeremy is he's the one husband who married into this family who truly seems to respect and treat Jinger as his equal. He was so in awe of her strength in childbirth and gave her so much credit. It was refreshing to see. He at least seems not to be so antiquated as the others. I also love that she's the only one to have had a girl (besides Smuggar) and gave her a decent name. 

[Aunt Catfish]

4 hours ago, Lunera said:

If the rumors that have been floating around about Jana are true, then she already has a guy that Boob disapproves of. I think Laura is there so to watch Jana at all times so that she doesn't step out of line, she probably even monitors her phone usage.

I think it's called tomato staking.  I remember hearing about it on a fundie blog and Michelle has been accused of doing this to Jana before.

Something weird is definitely up with Laura and the Duggars.

http://www.raisinggodlytomatoes.com/ch07.php

Looked at your link.....scary stuff...couldn't stick with it past a minute.  We have a son the same age as Jana and I promise we have never thought of him as a tomato plant!  And we certainly have never had him followed around 24/7!!!  If you have to resort to these measures the problem might just lie with your parenting.  Of course this thought would never occur to some people.

[crazycatlady58]

5 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

@Churchhoney - who is on hiatus from this forum - has told us why that is very very hard to do and maybe Jana doesn't have the strength to do it.

I miss Churchhoney . I hope she comes  back.

[queenanne]

9 hours ago, graefin said:

Didn't Laura work at IBLP headquarters? I would guess she's as straight-laced as they come. I think Jana is pretty far over on the introvert scale, which is probably problematic for her on many levels in the culture she lives in.

Oh, and I think Jenni not smiling is actually kind of a good thing. It means she is still in touch with her emotions and hasn't yet succumbed to these people's training to keep a happy countenance like her siblings were regardless of how she actually feels. In one of the earlier episodes, Jill was leading violin practice and instructed the younger kids to "try to have a pleasant expression on your face." That's just a tiny example, but this kind of negative affect-blotting indoctrination seems to get drilled into them from a young age. Maybe Dim Bulb and Mechelle are slipping because they've grown lazy(ier) with age. Maybe Jenni is rebelling just a bit. Whatever the case, it means that Jenni hasn't been fully cultified yet, which in turns hopefully means she has a better chance at leading a successful adult life than, say, sister-mom Jill.

I agree about Jenni in general and forcing people to smile all the time, but I'm not sure Jill's rehearsal technique is the best example of Duggars gone wrong.  Because I'm pretty sure that orchestra, ballet, etc. teachers have said similar to me and the entire gang, "Even if it's not coming easily for you, it should *look* easy and fun.  For the benefit of the audience, try not to look like you're being tortured while you're playing, because then they'll be concentrating on how miserable you all look."

[kalamac]

1 hour ago, Aunt Catfish said:

Looked at your link.....scary stuff...couldn't stick with it past a minute.  We have a son the same age as Jana and I promise we have never thought of him as a tomato plant!  And we certainly have never had him followed around 24/7!!!  If you have to resort to these measures the problem might just lie with your parenting.  Of course this thought would never occur to some people.

That's the problem with Gothardism as a whole. They claim it's this great system that raises perfectly godly children etc., but if the people who belong to this religion, and follow its teachings aren't able to go out unchaperoned, without being tempted into sin - when even completely non-religious people manage to go out alone without sinning all over the place, then the teachings really aren't that great.

Back on topic, Felicity is still cute.

Edited August 16, 2018 by kalamac

[MichaelaRae]

 Once under control and worthy of my trust again

 

This entire clause made me die inside. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by MichaelaRae

[louannems]

3 hours ago, Aunt Catfish said:

Looked at your link.....scary stuff...couldn't stick with it past a minute.  We have a son the same age as Jana and I promise we have never thought of him as a tomato plant!  And we certainly have never had him followed around 24/7!!!  If you have to resort to these measures the problem might just lie with your parenting.  Of course this thought would never occur to some people.

I've read that link before.  All of it.  That site is really into instant obedience and spanking babies and toddlers.  It amazes me how a site like that can stay up in this day and age.

[Nysha]

3 hours ago, Aunt Catfish said:

Looked at your link.....scary stuff...couldn't stick with it past a minute.  We have a son the same age as Jana and I promise we have never thought of him as a tomato plant!  And we certainly have never had him followed around 24/7!!!  If you have to resort to these measures the problem might just lie with your parenting.  Of course this thought would never occur to some people.

Here's a review of her book, Raising Godly Tomatoes, that's even scarier than her blog. Major cult & child abuse accusations. Someone who knows the author reviewed her book...

[BunnyBlueBrown]

Episode...discussion...

[graefin]

2 hours ago, queenanne said:

I agree about Jenni in general and forcing people to smile all the time, but I'm not sure Jill's rehearsal technique is the best example of Duggars gone wrong.  Because I'm pretty sure that orchestra, ballet, etc. teachers have said similar to me and the entire gang, "Even if it's not coming easily for you, it should *look* easy and fun.  For the benefit of the audience, try not to look like you're being tortured while you're playing, because then they'll be concentrating on how miserable you all look."

I don't know. Shouldn't one's expression just come naturally and not be something manufactured and forced? I took piano lessons for 10 years, had to play at recitals and in front of judges at Carnegie Hall, and was never coached to look a certain way.

I mean, if you think about all the concert violinists in the world (see what I did there, Jessa?), how many of them have an ever-present "pleasant" expression while performing? It's going to vary depending on the piece they're performing, the movement within the piece, the phrase within the movement. Sometimes they might look deep in concentration, sometimes excited, sometimes whatever else . . .

The Duggars are far from this level, I know, but I'm sure you get the general point.

[DangerousMinds]

13 minutes ago, Nysha said:

Here's a review of her book, Raising Godly Tomatoes, that's even scarier than her blog. Major cult & child abuse accusations. Someone who knows the author reviewed her book...

Who is Joe LaQuiere?

[Albanyguy]

10 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

why that is very very hard to do and maybe Jana doesn't have the strength to do it.

Leaving the cult would take more strength than Jana probably has. These kids have been conditioned from birth to think of themselves as weak and helpless; unable to cope without Mama, Daddy and Jesus protecting them from the evil outside world. But even so, I don't think Jana WANTS to leave. I think that of all the daughters, she and Jill are the two biggest Kool-Aid drinkers. No matter how tightly controlled they were before marriage, Jessa and Jinger still let an occasional unorthodox or rebellious comment slip through. Jana and Jill both seemed perfectly content with their narrow, dull little lives. Because Jana is still a single daughter, she isn't allowed to post her every thought or share an endless stream of photos on Instagram. If she could, we might find out that she's just as vapid as Jill and maybe even just as nasty and judgmental as Derick.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Albanyguy

[Aethera]

Guys please stick to the episode discussion in this thread! 

[graefin]

1 hour ago, Albanyguy said:

Jana and Jill both seemed perfectly content with their narrow, dull little lives.

Going to answer this in the Jana thread.

[GleamingMist]

18 hours ago, DragonFaerie said:

I don't know.  I mean if Jana hasn't found someone she likes, I can see Boob waiting and not pimping her out.  Simply because he has to know, Jana's wedding is the highest rated thing still out there, other the JD and Abbie's.  The other twins, Jer and Jed are 19, but unless he scores a double wedding for them, I think most folks will be like, eh.  Look another Duggar wedding, boring.  After that we have the kids no one remembers - There's a Jason?  There's a Justin?  James - the orchestra pit was probably the most famous he'll be on the shower and then the Fab Jackson.  But Jackson is only 14, so what - 4-6 years before his wedding?  I think he'll try to string along babies and houses and whatever he can because once  Jana gets married, TLC is gonna pack up and leave - IMHO.  That is until Jennifer and Jordyn do their tell all book tour.

Was Jason the orchestra kid?  That just proves for unremarkable they are all ha ha

[Aunt Catfish]

14 hours ago, kalamac said:

That's the problem with Gothardism as a whole. They claim it's this great system that raises perfectly godly children etc., but if the people who belong to this religion, and follow its teachings aren't able to go out unchaperoned, without being tempted into sin - when even completely non-religious people manage to go out alone without sinning all over the place, then the teachings really aren't that great.

Back on topic, Felicity is still cute.

Well, I am about to go to the store unchaperoned!  Am tempted to purchase some beer too.  Wonder what other trouble is waiting for me?  I agree that little Felicity is cute.  Let's hope that her parents have enough sense to let her grow naturally and not torment her into being a Godly Tomato!

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm just glad that if a girl had to come along, it was with Jeremy and Jinger.  I do not feel that they would put first born female into a life of servitude.  I do hope that Jinger can develop her voice though. 

[OpieTaylor]

On 8/15/2018 at 9:58 AM, EVS said:

To me it sounds like, since Laura and Jana are unmarried “older” fundie women, they are meant to be each other’s companion and accountability partner.  My hope is that they are actually covering for each other and sneaking around doing fun, forbidden, heathen activities and hooking up with hot non-fundie guys. Probably not, I know, but I would love it if this was true.

I've thought before that Jana may be some sort of fundie nun - she's chosen to dedicate her life to Jesus and, rather than the church, to her parent's family (JBoob is her pope!). Perhaps Laura feels the same and maybe doesn't have a bunch of her own little siblings to take care of. So she's joined Jana's "convent." And maybe they aren't even attracted to men, so are going to live celibate lives. 

[Evagirl]

Somebody mentioned in an earlier thread how much Jinger looked like Joy in this episode.  I hadn't watched it on my DVR then.  I did finish watching a couple of nights ago and wow!  Jinger in that hospital bed looked exactly like Joy - just a little thinner.  Jinger's face filled out some with the pregnancy and I think that's what made her look so much like Joy.

Also, J & J are my favorite Duggar married couple.  I think because Jeremy was older (about 30 I think), and had lived an independent life not associated with the Fundamentalists, he is more well-rounded as a person.  He gives Jinger so much credit and I love the way he encourages her.  It's like he's aware of how she was raised to be submissive, pleasure your husband while denying yourself stuff.  Jeremy has and is taking Jinger to a higher level.  I can see the confidence in her that I never saw before.  I think a lot of that has to do with Jeremy not being cut from the same cloth as the other Derick and Ben.

Speaking of Derick - where is he and Jill too?  Have they been fired?

[Jeeves]

16 minutes ago, Evagirl said:

Speaking of Derick - where is he and Jill too?  Have they been fired?

Yes. Derick and TLC parted ways publicly a few months ago after Derick attacked Jazz Jennings (of TLC's "I Am Jazz" series) on Twitter. It wasn't pretty.

Whether he quit or was fired, depends on who you ask. He bitched about TLC not paying the medical bills for one of his kids' birth (I think it was Sam) and said they were "volunteers" on the show and all sorts of other crazy sh*t that I didn't even try to follow too closely or figure out. I can't take the brain damage. I'm sure others here can explain it better, probably in the Dillards' topic.

So, the Dillards are off the show.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Jeeves

[Evagirl]

39 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Yes. Derick and TLC parted ways publicly a few months ago after Derick attacked Jazz Jennings (of TLC's "I Am Jazz" series) on Twitter. It wasn't pretty.

Whether he quit or was fired, depends on who you ask. He bitched about TLC not paying the medical bills for one of his kids' birth (I think it was Sam) and said they were "volunteers" on the show and all sorts of other crazy sh*t that I didn't even try to follow too closely or figure out. I can't take the brain damage. I'm sure others here can explain it better, probably in the Dillards' topic.

So, the Dillards are off the show.

Using the same sentence the Bates Clan are so fond of using - "Oh my word!"  Thanks for the update.  

[SMama]

Derick whined about TLC not paying for Israel’s birth.

[Marigold]

I loved how Jinger announced the pregnancy.  Not a Jim Bob fan (is anyone?) but he did look surprised and had genuine emotion. 

Michelle is really weird nowadays.  She was kooky before but this Josh scandal really destroyed her.  I wonder if Jim Bob or the others notice it?  She is stiff and forced, like she is not really connected but is trying to act like her old self.  Michelle is not familiar to me anymore.  She looks like Michelle Duggar but it's like she is not the Michelle Duggar we saw on TV for all those years. It's very bizarre to watch her try to get through scenes and interact with family. Bottom line, Michelle is not well at all.

Joy and Austin are absolutely nuts. They are the crazy couple that we all know. We kinda smile and nod while wondering WTF is wrong with them. 

I think Laura is a family friend.  The Duggars have a collection of people who seem to tag along with them.  Sometimes they are on camera and sometimes we just see them in social media.  It was a fun trip to Laredo for a happy occasion and why wouldn't a good friend come along?  d don't think there is more to the Jana-Laura relationship than just friendship. 

I think there are a lot of factors that contribute to Jana being single which everyone mentioned above.   

[humbleopinion]

Positive there is a producer on location that makes sure the molester and dullards are out of the shot when filming.

Nice that the molester’s kids aren’t prevented from wandering in and out of the range of the cameras, not their fault their Dad’s a festering pus wound.

Edited August 19, 2018 by humbleopinion

[bigskygirl]

I now will need to find a way to use the term festering pus wound in a conversation.

[Nysha]

I agree that the disclosure about Josh's behavior severally unhinged Michelle. I also think she is on a pretty high dose of antidepressants.

[lascuba]

55 minutes ago, Marigold said:

 

Michelle is really weird nowadays.  She was kooky before but this Josh scandal really destroyed her.  I wonder if Jim Bob or the others notice it?  She is stiff and forced, like she is not really connected but is trying to act like her old self.  Michelle is not familiar to me anymore.  She looks like Michelle Duggar but it's like she is not the Michelle Duggar we saw on TV for all those years. It's very bizarre to watch her try to get through scenes and interact with family. Bottom line, Michelle is not well at all.

 

Yeah, the molestations becoming public--and the public's reaction to that--really messed her up, and Joshley Madison was the final nail in that coffin. Same with Jill. Those two in particular basked in the public's adoration, and they thought that the FoxNews interview would be enough to shut up the loudest of the critics. Instead, they were excoriated for it. And for all their efforts to protect Josh, they had to deal with the news that the man they defended was cheating on his wife, thus proving that JB/M's ways of dealing with his adolescent behavior wasn't as perfect as they claimed.* I remember in the first Counting On special, when Jana practically broke down describing how Michelle told her about the AM scandal. I don't think she was crying because of how she felt over the that news, I think it was because Michelle was completely hysterical over it and Jana got emotional remembering that. 

*I feel weird about this because I don't believe that Josh molesting his sisters as an adolescent and his cheating on Anna are connected other than him just being a general dirtbag, but the family sees those things as connected, so that's why Joshley Madison fucked with their minds so much. 

[Marigold]

@lascuba

I didn't even connect Jill with it but you're right.  Jill is not the same either.  I know being married to Derick is no picnic but she is not herself either. 

Interesting they way they all dealt with this.  Jill and Michelle are not themselves.  jessa tries extra hard to look happy. I think jessa is much happier being married but she tries so, so hard to let us know. 

[lascuba]

1 minute ago, Marigold said:

@lascuba

I didn't even connect Jill with it but you're right.  Jill is not the same either.  I know being married to Derick is no picnic but she is not herself either. 

Interesting they way they all dealt with this.  Jill and Michelle are not themselves.  jessa tries extra hard to look happy. I think jessa is much happier being married but she tries so, so hard to let us know. 

I think TLC scared Jessa straight after that disasterous interview. She was fully herself there, angry and blunt and happy to let everyone know that she's right and they're wrong. She was completely different in that bullshit sex abuse special TLC aired just a couple of weeks later, all sweetness and light. She hasn't been herself since, and part of that could be due to just growing up a bit and mellowing out, but I think it's mostly that she got the message that being direct and unsmiling in her opinions means less $$$. Which is a shame, because blunt Jessa is a hell of lot more entertaining no matter how wrong she is. 

[humbleopinion]

Michelle and Jilly took the brunt of the psychological damage from the molestation..

Chelle’s slipped into the deep end when it came out to the world the nasty unspeakable shenanigans that happened in her house and caused by her devil spawn first born THEN with Josie’s problems Chelle had to eascape the real world..

Medicating her dulls the truth...She can barely respond in platitudes and nonsensical blather.

Jilly’s in denial but the next crisis may do her fragile ego in....

[yogi2014L]

Mechelle and Boob were never sane. Sane people do not have 19 children. Sane people do not join cults. Sane people do not allow their teenage daughters to raise their kids. I could go on and on lol

I do think Mechelle has declined in her mental health after the Joshley scandal. I also think she was addicted to pregnancy and going through this 'season of life' has probably unhinged her further than the Josh stuff did

That being said- I wonder if Jinger really wanted her there for the birth? Or was it more for filming purposes? I have a fantastic relationship with my mom and we are very close and I didn't want her in the room. ( I actually forgot to even tell her I was in labor, lol whooops)

[BitterApple]

Jinger and Michelle never struck me as particularly close, however I could see Jinger feeling bad about not inviting her, especially if Diana was going to be there. 

[humbleopinion]

Chelle has that Forest Gump thousand yard stare when she’s not saying cliched and practiced phrases when fully medicated and doped up with her “floaty zone” meds.

Edited August 18, 2018 by humbleopinion

[Marigold]

On 8/18/2018 at 1:50 PM, lascuba said:

I think TLC scared Jessa straight after that disasterous interview. She was fully herself there, angry and blunt and happy to let everyone know that she's right and they're wrong. She was completely different in that bullshit sex abuse special TLC aired just a couple of weeks later, all sweetness and light. She hasn't been herself since, and part of that could be due to just growing up a bit and mellowing out, but I think it's mostly that she got the message that being direct and unsmiling in her opinions means less $$$. Which is a shame, because blunt Jessa is a hell of lot more entertaining no matter how wrong she is. 

Another good analysis.  You are spot on with those three, Jilly, Jessa and Michelle.  Michelle is dissociated, Jill is fucking weird and Jessa is super sunshine. 

Change is always gradual. If we look back, we can barely recognize the three of them compared to their new 2018 Post-Josh personalities.

Jinger seems to have landed on her feet.  While I'm not a big fan of JereME, he has been good for Jinger.  I also think Jinger has been good for Jeremy.  Lately he seems a little less self involved both on camera and on social media

Edited August 20, 2018 by Marigold

[MsJamieDornan]

On 8/14/2018 at 6:55 AM, winsomeone said:

And JB and Michelle are slowly worming their way back into every episode, and talking more too.

And it's pissing me off. I want them gone.

[Marigold]

JB is talking and rambling, back to normal.

Michelle seems awkward and doesn't know what to say, which is odd because the old Michelle Duggar spoke well on camera.