S04.E02: Breathe

[Conan Troutman]

8 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Probably a lot of value in the land, but she would probably also get the homeowner's insurance proceeds, if any. 

Well, maybe not if it's ruled as arsony, and technically it was. I wonder if that's a potenial plot? Howard lies to the insurance company about the possible suicide and Jimmy uses it to sink him for good?

[ShadowFacts]

16 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I know the long range story, but, at this point, WHY has Lydia hired Mike as security for her company? If he's not really a security consultant, what's his function in her mind? Is he just a person to have on call, in case she needs an errand taken care of?

She didn't hire him for security, or any function.  She only acquiesced to Gus' request to launder Mike's bundle of money.  She has Gus in high esteem, she made some comment to Mike last season about he is so much more than a drug kingpin.  She doesn't want or need Mike there at all, and is annoyed that he showed up to a warehouse. 

18 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Are there more theories about why Jimmy went off on the office manager who hired him?

My take was that he disdains these guys the way he does the stupid and/or greedy people he has scammed in the past.  The way he thought his father was a chump.  I didn't think he had a purpose in making a scene.  I think the Hummel thing being valuable occurred to him in the middle of the night, there was no other planning. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of the episode!

Better Call Saul Copes Near Copiers

Kim steps in for Jimmy in the settling of Chuck's estate while Jimmy sells himself as a salesman in our EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of 'Breathe.'

[EtheltoTillie]

Random thoughts:  It's a good thing they have the recaps, 'cause I can't follow those cartel scenes--too dark!  And I can't distinguish the characters other than Nacho and Gus.

I like that they used the name Neff.  Shout out to Walter Neff (the failed insurance scamster played by Fred MacMurray--and "played" by Barbara Stanwyk--in Double Indemnity).  When have you ever met a real person named Neff?

As noted above, Gus appreciates Mike's attention to detail.  Gus has run his chicken restaurants the same way, so as not to draw attention to the cover. 

[Bryce Lynch]

49 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Can you or someone else remind me how we know that Jimmy suspected suicide?

 

You've made me want to rewatch this scene. I didn't take much note of Neff calling the stuff crap, and now I want to revisit Jimmy's reaction to that. I didn't see it as key to Jimmy changing his mind about the job. However, I don't know if he was sincerely enthusiastic about the job. I think he was just playing the role of selling himself for a job, any job, because he needs one. 

 

I don't think it's Howard's intention to be cruel, but it's rather unthinking to suggest that Jimmy go thru the burned down house to find any mementos (though it was originally Rebecca's idea, IIRC). I know Howard said that the garage was relatively untouched, but in hindsight I'm surprised none of them mentioned that the house doesn't exist any more. I guess there's value for Rebecca in the piece of land.

But again, I think Howard is trying to do the right thing and be good to Jimmy. As for the $5000 check, I can't imagine Jimmy contesting the will. I mean, JIMMY, no, but SAUL would.

Jimmy could decide for himself whether he wanted to go through the house or be on the scholarship board.  I don't see Howard making the offers being in any way insensitive.  

Assuming Chuck had homeowners insurance, I imagine the insurance company would pay to rebuild the house, or compensate Rebecca for the lost value.  I was thinking that if Howard filed the insurance claim on behalf of the estate, he might be on the hook for insurance fraud, since he strongly suspects it was arson/suicide, by the homeowner, not an accident.   

I didn't really have a good grasp of what Jimmy was thinking in the NEFF scenes.  It would seem a lot easier for him to steal the Hummels if he took the job.  It also seems like a small time heist to risk his freedom and law license on.  Mabye he saw his father in the saps at NEFF and didn't want to work for saps and chose to go into wolf mode?  

[peeayebee]

43 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm not sure why Kim didn't hand Jimmy the check and letter. Maybe, she is waiting.  She has to know that Howard is likely to call Jimmy down the road and ask him why the check hasn't been cashed and confirm he got the letter.  Kim could read the letter and determine if it's good or bad. If bad, hide it. If not, deliver it.  She can put it into a fresh envelope and Jimmy wouldn't know the difference or just admit she read it first. So what? Jimmy trust her. He'll accept her looking out for his feelings, imo.  They know they love each other. There's no reason their relationship couldn't survive this bump in the road, unless, Jimmy is looking for a reason to cut ties. 

I think Kim respects that the letter is for Jimmy's eyes only. On the other hand, she's keeping it from him. But first, imo, she respects that this is a personal letter from one brother to another. After that, I'm sure she has debated whether or not to give it to him, and, for now, has decided not to. 

[margol29]

Good discussion of the episode!! I really don't have much to add.

I believe the doctor that was accessing Hector in the beginning of the show (in the dark) was the same Dr. in BB that was in Mexico when Gus, Mike and Jesse went down there to show the cartel lab how to make the blue crystal. Gus poisoned the bottle of tequila and need immediate medical care. I love that this show brings in the characters from BB. 

[nodorothyparker]

I'll admit Jimmy first noticing the Hummel figurines didn't really register with me initially.  So it took me a minute to understand what he was doing at the end in deciding he was going to get something for his time at the copier sellers' after all. 

I'll also admit that my first thought on watching him go off on the guys for having the temerity to offer him the job was that we were seeing some of the fallout of Chuck's death that Jimmy's so clearly not dealing with.  Weirdly inappropriate spikes of anger is a thing that happens, as I can attest being three months out from a death in my family that wasn't a quarter as fraught with the tortured dynamics of Chuck and Jimmy.  But my husband, who had a bit of a ne'er-do-well past himself when he was younger, saw something else.  Jimmy went back in and gave it his everything to make the sale, and he did.  But when he turned away to the window while they're talking, his expression changes.  He's fully aware that he's treating them like marks.  He sees how much smarter he is and how gullible they are.  That's one thing when you're pulling a con in a bar to people you never expect to see again, it's something else when it's someone you're going to be working for everyday and will have to keep up the facade for to make at least an outward show of respect.   And because he's still reeling from Chuck's death, whether he admits it or not, he likely doesn't have it in him to keep up that level of pretense. 

It's oversimplification to see any of this as Jimmy bad, Howard good.  Left to his own devices, yes, Jimmy definitely tends to let his slipperier less ethical impulses run roughshod.  We also know that if the incentive is great enough, whether it be Chuck's approval or Kim's love, that he will do his damnedest to keep those impulses in check or at least to a manageable level.   D&M doesn't count because it was fairly obvious early on that he didn't really care about being a respectable Big Law lawyer for its own sake.  Howard has always been a very surface level kind of character and this is where I'm wishing we'd gotten even a line or two at some point about who he is beyond HHM.  All we know is that he cares very much about the firm and how he presents himself.  When he unloaded his big bag o' guilt on Jimmy he was presenting as someone who wanted absolution because the one time he'd finally put his foot down with Chuck after years of being his convenient fall guy and accomplice and propping him in his delusions that no, of course living like a foil-wrapped baked potato doesn't mean maybe you're mentally ill because it kept the gravy train afloat, Chuck burned the house down with Chuck in it.  Kim wasn't wrong to blast him for doing that on the day of the funeral or pointing out that he likely hadn't similarly unburdened himself to the woman who had divorced Chuck.  But because it's dirtbag Jimmy, who should be grateful for whatever scraps he's allowed to dig through the ashes for, it's all right.   You could see Howard visibly shrinking under Rhea Seehorn laying that withering smackdown on him because he like it or not he knew she was right.

Kim has always been a very contained, keep it on a professional level no matter what, kind of character.  So to see that ferocity in her for someone she loves and knows is being treated like an afterthought was thing of beauty.  That doesn't mean I don't worry about her though in the fallout we surely know is coming as Jimmy slips further into Saul.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, Bannon said:

I will again note that D&M partners, and Howard,  are shown to be terrible managers, by not finding a simple solution for Jimmy being a poor fit for D&M's office, while being extremely talented at efficiently procuring Sandpiper claimants.

 

I would like to say that I don't think good management is changing the firm's successful brand in order to accommodate one employee.

D&M tried things. And I think we're seeing evidence that, except in narrow circumstances, Jimmy isn't one who is a  belonger.

52 minutes ago, Bannon said:

You simply are empirically wrong. Jimmy McGill was willing to engage in extreme delayed gratification, for 7 years, laboring in a job for which he was extremely intellectually overqualified, to our knowledge engaging in no shortcuts, while secretly, to all but Kim, putting himself through law school. He did this because the right incentives were in place. 

Observable reality has demonstrated that Jimmy is capable of delivering top flight work for years, without significant drawbacks, when his incentives are aligned properly. This really is the case for almost all human beings. The deterministic view of any individual's behavior is nearly always wrong. That's why managers need to earn their income.

He worked but top flight?  Anyway, we have seen that Jimmy is motivated by Chuck, Kim and autonomy.  All three of those are why he's not a great fit for a lot of places.  

And while Jimmy did out himself through law school, I think it's just as rational to think he might have been running side gigs during that time for fun.  Or for money.  

41 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Can you or someone else remind me how we know that Jimmy suspected suicide?

It was the conversation at the beginning that made me think that.

[SailorGirl]

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I wonder how much the doctor is under Fring's control.  Is she there to do everything she can for Fring's "friend" or is she there to make sure he wakes up, but to prevent him from regaining the power of speech, the ability to walk, etc.

ooh, interesting question -- I hadn't thought about that! Gus did say he decided what happened to Hector. . . . I just assume a Johns Hopkins doctor would be ethical -- as most people would -- but there's a lot of dirty doctors out there -- regardless of what institution they are affiliated with. 

[SnarkAttack]

Nice to finally see some heat between Kim and Jimmy!

[Bannon]

Unlikely that the homeowner's policy pays without a fight from the insurance company. Fires resulting in a complete loss always get a hard look anways, and tearing out the electrical service, and relying on fuel burning lamps for illumination, has a decent chance of voiding the policy. If there was a mortgage on the house, the lender likely sues Chuck's estate

That lot is likely worth 300,000 to 400,000 dollars.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Bannon

[Bryce Lynch]

40 minutes ago, margol29 said:

Good discussion of the episode!! I really don't have much to add.

I believe the doctor that was accessing Hector in the beginning of the show (in the dark) was the same Dr. in BB that was in Mexico when Gus, Mike and Jesse went down there to show the cartel lab how to make the blue crystal. Gus poisoned the bottle of tequila and need immediate medical care. I love that this show brings in the characters from BB. 

Yes, that was the same doctor who treated Gus (and Mike when he got around to it) after they wiped out the cartel.  He is also the doctor who provided Mike (alias Dave Clark) with the drugs that he used to taint the Salamanca's truck to get them busted by the border patrol.

His name is Dr. Barry Goodman.  I would love to hear how they gave him that name.  In googling it, I noticed it was the same name as a serial killer on Criminal Minds.  

[margol29]

Thank you Bryce Lynch for this info!!^^^^

[Bannon]

30 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

 

I would like to say that I don't think good management is changing the firm's successful brand in order to accommodate one employee.

D&M tried things. And I think we're seeing evidence that, except in narrow circumstances, Jimmy isn't one who is a  belonger.

He worked but top flight?  Anyway, we have seen that Jimmy is motivated by Chuck, Kim and autonomy.  All three of those are why he's not a great fit for a lot of places.  

And while Jimmy did out himself through law school, I think it's just as rational to think he might have been running side gigs during that time for fun.  Or for money.  

It was the conversation at the beginning that made me think that.

Howard thought his work in the mailroom was excellent. He did it for 7 years, and we have no knowledge of any unethical activity in this period.

You didn't need to change the firm's brand to accomodate Jimmy's skill set. You just needed to set him up in his own shop, outside D&M offices  with D&M as his only client, and doing marketing for the Sandpiper case as the only job. D&M's brand need not appear in any marketing materials, and Jimmy's shop simply funnels all the claimants to D&M. Large litigation firms use this technique all the time, so their brand doesn't get associated with television advertising.

Jimmy suspected suicide because all the electrical appliances were in the backyard, and Chuck previously had always been careful with the lamps.

47 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I'll admit Jimmy first noticing the Hummel figurines didn't really register with me initially.  So it took me a minute to understand what he was doing at the end in deciding he was going to get something for his time at the copier sellers' after all. 

I'll also admit that my first thought on watching him go off on the guys for having the temerity to offer him the job was that we were seeing some of the fallout of Chuck's death that Jimmy's so clearly not dealing with.  Weirdly inappropriate spikes of anger is a thing that happens, as I can attest being three months out from a death in my family that wasn't a quarter as fraught with the tortured dynamics of Chuck and Jimmy.  But my husband, who had a bit of a ne'er-do-well past himself when he was younger, saw something else.  Jimmy went back in and gave it his everything to make the sale, and he did.  But when he turned away to the window while they're talking, his expression changes.  He's fully aware that he's treating them like marks.  He sees how much smarter he is and how gullible they are.  That's one thing when you're pulling a con in a bar to people you never expect to see again, it's something else when it's someone you're going to be working for everyday and will have to keep up the facade for to make at least an outward show of respect.   And because he's still reeling from Chuck's death, whether he admits it or not, he likely doesn't have it in him to keep up that level of pretense. 

It's oversimplification to see any of this as Jimmy bad, Howard good.  Left to his own devices, yes, Jimmy definitely tends to let his slipperier less ethical impulses run roughshod.  We also know that if the incentive is great enough, whether it be Chuck's approval or Kim's love, that he will do his damnedest to keep those impulses in check or at least to a manageable level.   D&M doesn't count because it was fairly obvious early on that he didn't really care about being a respectable Big Law lawyer for its own sake.  Howard has always been a very surface level kind of character and this is where I'm wishing we'd gotten even a line or two at some point about who he is beyond HHM.  All we know is that he cares very much about the firm and how he presents himself.  When he unloaded his big bag o' guilt on Jimmy he was presenting as someone who wanted absolution because the one time he'd finally put his foot down with Chuck after years of being his convenient fall guy and accomplice and propping him in his delusions that no, of course living like a foil-wrapped baked potato doesn't mean maybe you're mentally ill because it kept the gravy train afloat, Chuck burned the house down with Chuck in it.  Kim wasn't wrong to blast him for doing that on the day of the funeral or pointing out that he likely hadn't similarly unburdened himself to the woman who had divorced Chuck.  But because it's dirtbag Jimmy, who should be grateful for whatever for whatever scraps he's allowed to dig through the ashes for, it's all right.   You could see Howard visibly shrinking under Rhea Seehorn laying that withering smackdown on him because he like it or not he knew she wasn't wrong.

Kim has always been a very contained, keep it on a professional level no matter what, kind of character.  So to see that ferocity in her for someone she loves and knows is being treated like an afterthought was thing of beauty.  That doesn't mean I don't worry about her though in the fallout we surely know is coming as Jimmy slips further into Saul.

Great, great, post.

[nodorothyparker]

Jimmy never voiced the word "suicide."  He commented at the fire scene that he knew something wasn't right, that Chuck had always been so careful and that he had seemed better when he last saw him five days before.  He noted all the appliances ripped out and tossed in the backyard.  But he never actually said suicide.  That was all on Howard to put that out there.

[ShadowFacts]

43 minutes ago, SailorGirl said:

ooh, interesting question -- I hadn't thought about that! Gus did say he decided what happened to Hector. . . . I just assume a Johns Hopkins doctor would be ethical -- as most people would -- but there's a lot of dirty doctors out there -- regardless of what institution they are affiliated with. 

I think she most likely is not just very competent but also ethical, she will be making sure everything possible is being done for Hector, and that is exactly what Gus wants.  He wants him alive and sentient.

31 minutes ago, SnarkAttack said:

Nice to finally see some heat between Kim and Jimmy!

Interesting that this is the first time we've seen it, and I felt it was to cement the idea that Kim is really all in.  Lamentably, as far as I'm concerned. 

[lovinbob]

I also noticed about Kim--she didn't have her little ponytail when she saw Howard. She was wearing a low ponytail that was looser and not coiled up--kind of like her demeanor.

Makes sense, because she shouldn't really be able to do her hair perfectly with her arm in a sling. But she did have it for the funeral--I guess Jimmy did help her after all. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I get that Jimmy thought that Chuck had always been so careful with the lanterns, but, really.....people make mistakes, lanterns malfunction or get knocked over. Maybe a rodent caused it....I think it's really straining to deduct that it wasn't accidental.  But, I get why they are going that way. 

[tiredofwork]

All I know is Jimmy McGill is a plague leaving death, destruction, misery and chaos in his wake.  Which always serves to remind that while we get to see why he is who he is, he is still a complete sociopath.

I especially feel angst for Kim as she was not of BB so we don't know her fate. It is sad he is one of his many victims.

I hope soon that the Chuck, HHM dealings are done and the series has that in the rearview mirror.

[Bannon]

9 minutes ago, tiredofwork said:

All I know is Jimmy McGill is a plague leaving death, destruction, misery and chaos in his wake.  Which always serves to remind that while we get to see why he is who he is, he is still a complete sociopath.

I especially feel angst for Kim as she was not of BB so we don't know her fate. It is sad he is one of his many victims.

I hope soon that the Chuck, HHM dealings are done and the series has that in the rearview mirror.

People can be guilty of the worst crimes imaginable, without being sociopaths. Jimmy is not a sociopath, as evidenced by many of his behaviors. We have seem him defer gratification for years. We have seen him exhibit feelings of guilt,  and accept negative consequences as a result of his feeling guilty. We have seen him act in defense of others, without obvious benefit to himself, and at obvious risk to himself

 

Jimmy may be an awful person, but he definitely is not a sociopath. He's a lot more interesting than that. 

[monagatuna]

33 minutes ago, lovinbob said:

I also noticed about Kim--she didn't have her little ponytail when she saw Howard. She was wearing a low ponytail that was looser and not coiled up--kind of like her demeanor.

Makes sense, because she shouldn't really be able to do her hair perfectly with her arm in a sling. But she did have it for the funeral--I guess Jimmy did help her after all. 

It's little details like this that make this show so great. We can read this in multiple ways. Yeah, her hair is looser because she's not as wound up as she usually is. But yeah, also, Jimmy wasn't there to help her curl it, because he didn't know about her visit to HHM. Some people will notice details like this, and some, like myself, will not, but they create each detail with such care anyway, as gifts for those who do.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 Maybe I'm wrong here, but I'm sure this whole thing is supposed to show the mental process he's going through, diving deeper into the rabbit hole that is Saul Goodman's mind. The answers won't be clear, but it matters little - we're in for one hell of a ride. 

I really didn't get what happened in this scene but my best guess is close to yours. Jimmy sort of snapped back to life last week when Howard took responsibility for Chuck's suicide, but essentially I think Jimmy is still broken. And I think this scene served to show that there's an inner struggle between Saul Goodman pulling one of his cons, and the more humane Jimmy who pities the people who fall for these kinds of cons. It's similar to what he did to that old woman last season, tricking her into signing off on the settlement, the feeling so bad about it he sabotaged himself to get her out of it.

I'd be interested to know what's in Chuck's letter, because obviously he couldn't have written it any time recently. It was in Howard's possession so I assume it was at the HHM offices and not in Chuck's home. That seems to indicate it was written years ago when Chuck was still mentally OK and working out of the offices. If the show is going to imply the letter was written more recently, that sort of contradicts the timeline.

Can somebody remind me how Lydia and Gus are connected? Does she move product for him through Madrigal? Do we know how they ever connected in the first place?

[LoneHaranguer]

14 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Lydia is clearly not happy that Mike is actually doing his job and sticking his nose in her businesses, but if Gus continues to back him, I guess he'll keep doing it. 

To me, it sounded like Lydia has a financial interest in seeing that security stays the way it is.

5 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I do think the letter is another screw you to Jimmy.  Chuck would have the last word, and there wouldn't be a damn thing that Jimmy could do about it.

Jimmy might get some symbolic satisfaction in burning it.

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

His name is Dr. Barry Goodman.  I would love to hear how they gave him that name.  In googling it, I noticed it was the same name as a serial killer on Criminal Minds.

You don't think it has anything to do with being Saul's last name?

[Bryce Lynch]

10 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

To me, it sounded like Lydia has a financial interest in seeing that security stays the way it is.

Jimmy might get some symbolic satisfaction in burning it.

You don't think it has anything to do with being Saul's last name?

Yes, I was wondering if Lydia might be stealing for someone other than Fring.

I have no idea.  It could have just been a gag on BB, since I don't think they ever mentioned his name on BB.  I only know his name from IMDB.  

[Bryce Lynch]

13 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I really didn't get what happened in this scene but my best guess is close to yours. Jimmy sort of snapped back to life last week when Howard took responsibility for Chuck's suicide, but essentially I think Jimmy is still broken. And I think this scene served to show that there's an inner struggle between Saul Goodman pulling one of his cons, and the more humane Jimmy who pities the people who fall for these kinds of cons. It's similar to what he did to that old woman last season, tricking her into signing off on the settlement, the feeling so bad about it he sabotaged himself to get her out of it.

I'd be interested to know what's in Chuck's letter, because obviously he couldn't have written it any time recently. It was in Howard's possession so I assume it was at the HHM offices and not in Chuck's home. That seems to indicate it was written years ago when Chuck was still mentally OK and working out of the offices. If the show is going to imply the letter was written more recently, that sort of contradicts the timeline.

Can somebody remind me how Lydia and Gus are connected? Does she move product for him through Madrigal? Do we know how they ever connected in the first place?

In Breaking Bad, Lydia supplied precursor from Madrigal's supplies for Fring's meth lab. She might have also been involved in getting him the expensive lab equipment, as Hank discovered that at least some of it came from Madrigal.  The fact that she helped Fring pick the laundry as the location, suggests this is likely.  

AFAIK, she didn't move the product, though she later told Walt that she had pitched her Czech Republic deal to Fring, and he agreed to it, but then somebody killed him.    

[SnarkyTart]

We may never learn if something triggers Jimmy into running a scam on Neff copiers, or if he actually set out to do something nefarious from the outset.  If he was triggered, it would seem to be related to the Hummel figurines, and not coincidental that the one thing he's interested in taking from Neff is the Hummel figurine. 

I'm thinking this is a call back to Season 1 episode 5, "Alpine Shepherd Boy", which was the name of one of the Hummel figurines belonging to Mrs Strauss.  In that episode, Jimmy has tried a few avenues to find his footing in the legal world.  It's when he visits elderly Mrs Strauss to assist her in estate planning that Jimmy learns he has an affinity for elder law.  Mrs Strauss collects Hummel figurines and her estate consists of bequeathing her Hummels to various friends and family members.  She's the first client that hires Jimmy.  Later in this episode, Jimmy tells Chuck about all these events and Chuck seems very pleased with Jimmy and encourages him in the pursuit of elder law.

So, maybe the Hummel figurines at Ness evoked some subconscious memory for Jimmy of when Chuck was supportive of him.  As well, it could evoke memories of a happier time when Jimmy felt like he'd found his calling in elder law and could do good things for his clients.  In any case, judging from the previews, it seems like the only thing Jimmy wants to steal from Neff is the Hummel.

[wendyg]

SnarkyTart: I was about to say the same thing, except I'd forgotten the details of the client.

[ShadowFacts]

11 minutes ago, SnarkyTart said:

So, maybe the Hummel figurines at Ness evoked some subconscious memory for Jimmy of when Chuck was supportive of him.  As well, it could evoke memories of a happier time when Jimmy felt like he'd found his calling in elder law and could do good things for his clients.  In any case, judging from the previews, it seems like the only thing Jimmy wants to steal from Neff is the Hummel.

It could be that he felt twinges of nostalgia, but if so he's going to blow that pleasant feeling to hell by plotting to steal the Hummel.  Or maybe that is the way he generates mojo, by pulling whatever he can on whoever he can.

Speaking of the Neff interview, I think it brings up the point that anyone who does even minimal questioning and background checking is going to take a hard pass on Jimmy.  He even refers to it himself when he is ranting at them about how stupid they are regarding no due diligence.  He's only going to find gainful employment if people doing the hiring are careless. 

[shapeshifter]

So some M. I. Hummels are valuable: https://www.antique-hq.com/hummel_figurine_collectible_value_chart.html

[Bryce Lynch]

The Insider Podcast for this episode is now available.  

https://audioboom.com/posts/6970328-402-better-call-saul-insider

[NYCFree]

I thought that when Kim stayed back to talk to Howard she was going to tell him they were going to contest the will. A will can be invalidated if the maker of the will is suffering from a delusion. In law school, the case that demonstrated this was an elderly man who thought his wife was running a bordello in their attic, and didn’t leave her any of his estate. I think a possible case could be made that Chuck was a bit deluded when it came to Jimmy. It may not win in court, but it would be far smarter for Rebecca to agree to give Jimmy a million or two (out of thirteen million?) than tie up the estate in litigation for years.

That execution by Fring was absolutely brutal to watch. It kind of exemplified the way Fring wants revenge: the recipient has to know what is happening and who is doing it.

[SunnyBeBe]

9 minutes ago, NYCFree said:

I thought that when Kim stayed back to talk to Howard she was going to tell him they were going to contest the will. A will can be invalidated if the maker of the will is suffering from a delusion. In law school, the case that demonstrated this was an elderly man who thought his wife was running a bordello in their attic, and didn’t leave her any of his estate. I think a possible case could be made that Chuck was a bit deluded when it came to Jimmy. It may not win in court, but it would be far smarter for Rebecca to agree to give Jimmy a million or two (out of thirteen million?) than tie up the estate in litigation for years.

That execution by Fring was absolutely brutal to watch. It kind of exemplified the way Fring wants revenge: the recipient has to know what is happening and who is doing it.

EXCELLENT POINT!  Chuck's competence was certainly a point of contention.  I'm surprised that Jimmy is not all over that. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

EXCELLENT POINT!  Chuck's competence was certainly a point of contention.  I'm surprised that Jimmy is not all over that. 

Was it mentioned when Chuck wrote the will?  Because if it was not in the last couple years, there wouldn't be any question of Chuck's mental state or competence. 

[SunnyBeBe]

4 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

Was it mentioned when Chuck wrote the will?  Because if it was not in the last couple years, there wouldn't be any question of Chuck's mental state or competence. 

Yeah, maybe, it was written before he became ill, but, who's to say when he became ill? He might have been hiding his delusions and confusion.  Who's going to testify?  Plus, all those embarrassing details to come out, after drawn out litigation.....? I could see it settling out of court. For some reason they must have decided to not have Jimmy jump on it.  Good option though.  I suppose it suits the plot development for Jimmy to remain strapped for cash. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[ShadowFacts]

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, maybe, it was written before he became ill, but, who's to say when he became ill? He might have been hiding his delusions and confusion.  Who's going to testify?  Plus, all those embarrassing details to come out, after drawn out litigation.....? I could see it settling out of court. For some reason they must have decided to not have Jimmy jump on it.  Good option though.  I suppose it suits the plot development for Jimmy to remain strapped for cash. 

I think it would be a losing battle, if the will was written some while ago.  He functioned fine at work and apparently in the community, etc.  The embarrassing details already came out at the bar hearing.  Chuck didn't leave out a spouse or a child, but a brother.  The way they are writing Jimmy right now, he wants nothing to do with anything Chuck related, and I think largely because of his guilt.  If he still retains humanity, and I think he does at least toward Kim, he might let Rebecca and the charities have whatever Chuck wanted them to have.  He wasn't even interested in going to the meeting.  But . . . that can change depending on what is in the letter Chuck wrote. 

[DangerousMinds]

8 hours ago, Bannon said:

You simply are empirically wrong. Jimmy McGill was willing to engage in extreme delayed gratification, for 7 years, laboring in a job for which he was extremely intellectually overqualified, to our knowledge engaging in no shortcuts, while secretly, to all but Kim, putting himself through law school. He did this because the right incentives were in place. What do you think being a law firm partner entails, for a largish firm? Collecting checks and acting in an authoritarian manner? No, the job demands creative problem solving, like when an employee demonstrates skill in an area which delivers large revenue streams, like Jimmy and Kim have, while also having traits which need to be minimized.

 

Observable reality has demonstrated that Jimmy is capable of delivering top flight work for years, without significant drawbacks, when his incentives are aligned properly. This really is the case for almost all human beings. The deterministic view of any individual's behavior is nearly always wrong. That's why managers need to earn their income.

Edited August 14, 2018 by DangerousMinds

[DangerousMinds]

7 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Can you or someone else remind me how we know that Jimmy suspected suicide?

 

You've made me want to rewatch this scene. I didn't take much note of Neff calling the stuff crap, and now I want to revisit Jimmy's reaction to that. I didn't see it as key to Jimmy changing his mind about the job. However, I don't know if he was sincerely enthusiastic about the job. I think he was just playing the role of selling himself for a job, any job, because he needs one. 

 

I don't think it's Howard's intention to be cruel, but it's rather unthinking to suggest that Jimmy go thru the burned down house to find any mementos (though it was originally Rebecca's idea, IIRC). I know Howard said that the garage was relatively untouched, but in hindsight I'm surprised none of them mentioned that the house doesn't exist any more. I guess there's value for Rebecca in the piece of land.

But again, I think Howard is trying to do the right thing and be good to Jimmy. As for the $5000 check, I can't imagine Jimmy contesting the will. I mean, JIMMY, no, but SAUL would.

Can someone explain about a relative "contesting" a will? Everyone has the right to do what they wish with their own money, right? If they choose not leave any money to a relative, that's their choice.

[SoMuchTV]

All I can say is, urrrrggh, poor Nacho.  It's hard to think of a scenario where things end well for him.  Maybe he meets up with Kim and they run off and start a family in some state far away...  run a little upholstery & legal aid practice...?

[Bannon]

19 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Can someone explain about a relative "contesting" a will? Everyone has the right to do what they wish with their own money, right? If they choose not leave any money to a relative, that's their choice.

Usually it involves a  claim that the deceased was not legally competent to execute a will at the time it was drawn up. It usually is a very difficult thing to establish, but I suppose it could be worth a try, given Chuck's mental illness.

11 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

All I can say is, urrrrggh, poor Nacho.  It's hard to think of a scenario where things end well for him.  Maybe he meets up with Kim and they run off and start a family in some state far away...  run a little upholstery & legal aid practice...?

Yeah, that's where the suspense lies for me now; how much of a hand will Jimmy play in whatever writes Kim and Nacho out of the looming Breaking Bad universe.

.

[NYCFree]

23 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Can someone explain about a relative "contesting" a will? Everyone has the right to do what they wish with their own money, right? If they choose not leave any money to a relative, that's their choice.

More or less that’s true (however in current US law a surviving spouse has rights to a certain percentage of the estate). However Jimmy would be the sole beneficiary if Chuck died without a will. The expectation is that people leave their estate to their relatives, if that doesn’t happen, and the relative can show a reason why that didn’t, they have a chance at contesting the will. 

Let’s say that a grandmother with a beloved children and grandchildren  becomes isolated from the family by an unscrupulous caretaker. When grandma dies, a will is discovered that leaves everything to the caretaker. The family can contest that will by proving there was undue influence on the part of the caretaker.

If Jimmy can show Chuck had irrational and delusional thoughts about Jimmy, he may tie up the estate for several years. Even if he is ultimately unsuccessful, it may just be easier and cheaper for Rebecca to basically pay Jimmy off to settle the matter quickly. 

Apart from the spouse, you can leave your money to whomever you want, provided you were sane and do so freely. Relatives challenge the “sane” and “freely” criteria all the time. The vast majority of challenges are settled before trial.

[ShadowFacts]

53 minutes ago, NYCFree said:

If Jimmy can show Chuck had irrational and delusional thoughts about Jimmy, he may tie up the estate for several years. Even if he is ultimately unsuccessful, it may just be easier and cheaper for Rebecca to basically pay Jimmy off to settle the matter quickly. 

Assuming this is a fairly recent will, after his problems with electromagnetism, I think it would still be hard to prove that Chuck was delusional about Jimmy.  Given their recent history whereby Jimmy was actually suspended from the practice of law for breaking into Chuck's place, Chuck looks pretty reasonable in not leaving him money beyond $5,000.  And $5,000 isn't nothing.  Rebecca got the house, I can't imagine Jimmy would want any part of what remains of that property.  That would pit him against the charities, presumably, and I hope Jimmy would not sink that low.  He tends to screw with people he thinks deserve it.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

Assuming this is a fairly recent will, after his problems with electromagnetism, I think it would still be hard to prove that Chuck was delusional about Jimmy.  Given their recent history whereby Jimmy was actually suspended from the practice of law for breaking into Chuck's place, Chuck looks pretty reasonable in not leaving him money beyond $5,000.  And $5,000 isn't nothing.  Rebecca got the house, I can't imagine Jimmy would want any part of what remains of that property.  That would pit him against the charities, presumably, and I hope Jimmy would not sink that low.  He tends to screw with people he thinks deserve it.

He was willing to screw with the older women so I do think he'd be willing to block the charities if he felt he deserved it more.  The problem is that there's very little benefit for him. 

Given his personal history, he would have a difficult time proving Chuck was delusional about him.  Chuck was perhaps overly rigid with Jimmy and didn't see enough of the good in him but he wasn't far off about Jimmy's negatives.  He has a criminal history, including the incident at Chuck's house.

Rebecca is only one beneficiary of the estate.  As the executor, Howard's the one who would defend the will.  So instead of going to charity, the money would likely go to executor fees and attorney fees (probably to a lawyer at HHM or another firm like them).

[tennisgurl]

Harry must be ruing the day he stuck Kim on the back burner of his practice. Kim plus riotous indignation equals a smoking crater where the person she is yelling at once stood! Good Lord, that was brutal. None of it was wrong though, and Howard knew it. 

Poor Nacho had a really shitty night. Not as shitty as his friend, but as bad of a night as you can have surviving an encounter with Gus. 

19 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Those dudes that were interviewing him did seem incredibly nice.  I get the feeling that Jimmy views "being nice" as some sort of weakness.

 

I think Jimmy has a dislike of "nice" people, because they remind him of his father, who was described as the sort of nice, trusting fellow who really would hire anyone off the street who seemed like a good fit, or had some fancy words, without bothering with a background check, and people took advantage of that. Jimmy saw people taking advantage of that, and it made him never want to be like that, and left him with some weird, complicated feelings towards his dad. 

[SlippinJimmy]

The Insider Podcast for this episode is now available.  

https://audioboom.com/posts/6970328-402-better-call-saul-insider

Somehow, Neff Copiers stuff available
https://www.redbubble.com/people/typeo/works/33260740-neff-copiers?asc=u&p=t-shirt

[SlippinJimmy]

We may never learn if something triggers Jimmy into running a scam on Neff copiers, or if he actually set out to do something nefarious from the outset.  If he was triggered, it would seem to be related to the Hummel figurines, and not coincidental that the one thing he's interested in taking from Neff is the Hummel figurine. 

I'm thinking this is a call back to Season 1 episode 5, "Alpine Shepherd Boy", which was the name of one of the Hummel figurines belonging to Mrs Strauss.  In that episode, Jimmy has tried a few avenues to find his footing in the legal world.  It's when he visits elderly Mrs Strauss to assist her in estate planning that Jimmy learns he has an affinity for elder law.  Mrs Strauss collects Hummel figurines and her estate consists of bequeathing her Hummels to various friends and family members.  She's the first client that hires Jimmy.  Later in this episode, Jimmy tells Chuck about all these events and Chuck seems very pleased with Jimmy and encourages him in the pursuit of elder law.

So, maybe the Hummel figurines at Ness evoked some subconscious memory for Jimmy of when Chuck was supportive of him.  As well, it could evoke memories of a happier time when Jimmy felt like he'd found his calling in elder law and could do good things for his clients.  In any case, judging from the previews, it seems like the only thing Jimmy wants to steal from Neff is the Hummel.

It was also mentioned that perhaps Jimmy was triggered bc Mr. Neff reminded him of his father in the way that he'd allow himself get taken advantage of. Like in the flashback at the store.

“Two kinds of people in this world, wolves and sheep."

[wendyg]

tennisgurl: Oh, no, Nacho's friend got the best of it. Nacho now gets to live with Gus's ongoing torture.

[buttercupia]

21 hours ago, GussieK said:

When have you ever met a real person named Neff?

there were Neffs in our neighborhood when I was growing up.

[Bannon]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 

Poor Nacho had a really shitty night. Not as shitty as his friend, but as bad of a night as you can have surviving an encounter with Gus. 

 

The management techniques employed by Gus in his chicken business appear a bit more employee-friendly than those used in the drug business, so if I was looking for a new job, I'd make sure my resume found it's way to the right pile.

Even if I'm not wild about the uniforms at Pollos Hermanos.

[Bryce Lynch]

17 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

The Insider Podcast for this episode is now available.  

https://audioboom.com/posts/6970328-402-better-call-saul-insider

They are spending way too much time talking about the production of the show...and colonoscopies...and not enough about what happened in the episode.