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The Duggars and Their World: Fashion, Food, Finance, Schoolin’ and Child Rearin'

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7 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

I seems to recall during the TTH building episode(s) that the kits they bought are super storm resistant.  JB was bragging about it.  I can't recall if he mentioned tornadoes specifically however.

No matter how storm resistant, no house can withstand a direct hit from a tornado which is probably the most common natural disaster in NW Arkansas.   The Duggars are exactly the sort of fools who would build a house without a storm cellar. And, of course, JD and Abbie live in a trailer, Jessa's house is tiny and Joe's place doesn't look too substantial, either.  While they all could conceivable go to the TTH when the weather is threatening, we are in the midst of a pandemic and they shouldn't.  Anyone who lives in a place where tornadoes are common also knows that you often get just a few minutes to get to safety when the tornado is heading your way.  We also get dozens of tornado watches and warnings every spring and it isn't practical to bug out to the parents' place every time/

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1 hour ago, BigBingerBro said:

I seems to recall during the TTH building episode(s) that the kits they bought are super storm resistant.  JB was bragging about it.  I can't recall if he mentioned tornadoes specifically however.

  You mean the kids that were assembled by 12-year-olds?

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Bringing together the multiple fashion conversations from the other threads.

With exception of maybe Jinger (& Jill?), none of the Duggar daughters or female in-laws have lost their Fundy fashion completely (or at all). On any given day, we could pick them out of a line up depending on their outfit.

Joy and Jessa still scream Fundy on most days. Jana, Lauren, Abbie and Kendra come in a close second. 

Jill and her pants are a bit confusing, so maybe she doesn't scream Fundy, but she doesn't scream fashion either.

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1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

Bringing together the multiple fashion conversations from the other threads.

With exception of maybe Jinger (& Jill?), none of the Duggar daughters or female in-laws have lost their Fundy fashion completely (or at all). On any given day, we could pick them out of a line up depending on their outfit.

Joy and Jessa still scream Fundy on most days. Jana, Lauren, Abbie and Kendra come in a close second. 

Jill and her pants are a bit confusing, so maybe she doesn't scream Fundy, but she doesn't scream fashion either.

I think Jill just doesn't have a great knack or eye for fashion. Some people do, and some don't. Maybe she'll develop a sense of what works for her, as time goes by. At least it's been awhile since she was wearing whatever she could scrounge from the communal Duggar closet, and living under the headship thumb of a Gothard adherent. She's emerging from all that and is bound to get some things right and other things wrong. 

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9 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I think Jill just doesn't have a great knack or eye for fashion. Some people do, and some don't. Maybe she'll develop a sense of what works for her, as time goes by. At least it's been awhile since she was wearing whatever she could scrounge from the communal Duggar closet, and living under the headship thumb of a Gothard adherent. She's emerging from all that and is bound to get some things right and other things wrong. 

I do feel bad for Jill.  She missed experimenting with fashion during her high school and undergraduate years like so many of us.  She broke free later and is now playing catch up.  She also feels the need to document everything because of her upbringing.  I made some fashion choices when I was younger and I am glad that happened well before everyone had a camera permanently attached to their hand and the ability to share instantly.  

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Don't forget though, while the girls were sharing the communal closet, they were bragging as if they were the stylish gurus of "modern modest". 

I'm a low key trend follower, if and when I actually follow a trend, but I would never act as if I could offer any sound advice on fashion. I could tell you if an outfit complimented your figure, but not if you were on trend.

The Duggars are their own worst enemies. They need to stop acting like they have any advice to give. What ever they offer is either known by the masses or has been on Pinterest for 5 or more years.

And unbeknownst to the Duggar women, I would say better than 70% of the female population dress modestly. At least in my tiny circle of the world.

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To be a little fair to the Duggar women, this modern modest business popped up right after they made the great leap forward from ankle length denim and polos to things that you could, in theory, buy in a mainline store. I mean, we all hate the mustard cardigan, but that open front drapey knit isn't completely out to lunch fashion-wise. 

I also have a pet theory that the Duggars ministry has always been less about recruiting we the modest pants-wearers and more about "encouraging" any "sweet friends" who are wavering. Your willful daughter is refusing to wear ankle-length denim from 1992? Well that's ok! She can wear knee-length denim and still be a proverbs whatever woman! 

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The Duggars are their own version of an MLM.  They fit right in with the whole "Hey Hun" culture too.  They need a name though.  How about Duggs Fuggs?

ETA--I blame this post on the 'Rona. We're in day eleventy twelve of social distancing with no end in sight.  Good grief.

Edited by sixlets · Reason: I've lost my damn mind back in February.
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Not entirely sure what thread to put this in, but the NWA metro area had had its first covid-19 related deaths. (Before this, as far as I know, all other confirmed deaths were in other parts of the state.) There were 2 in springdale. 

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30 minutes ago, Zella said:

Not entirely sure what thread to put this in, but the NWA metro area had had its first covid-19 related deaths. (Before this, as far as I know, all other confirmed deaths were in other parts of the state.) There were 2 in springdale. 

Oh goodness.

And I believe AR is scheduled to reopen hair salons and places of worship the first week in May.

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12 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Oh goodness.

And I believe AR is scheduled to reopen hair salons and places of worship the first week in May.

Well, not scheduled. It has been announced as "a goal" but there will be no actual decisions made on that until next week. They are actually not even announcing decisions on salons or churches until early May, which is later than an announcement for restaurants and gyms. It's all also predicated on a 2 week downward trajectory of cases. And in phase 1 businesses that reopen would still have to be able to maintain social distancing. 

https://www.thv11.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/gov-hutchinson-hopes-to-ease-covid-19-restrictions-in-early-may/91-c30e620e-d926-46fb-86be-6cb36b81c1f6

Edited to add: I don't think hair salons have ever been considered part of a phase 1 reopening, probably because of the fact you can't social distance and cut hair:

https://katv.com/news/coronavirus/barbers-and-hair-salons-excluded-from-may-4-soft-reopening-of-arkansas-businesses

Edited by Zella
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On 4/23/2020 at 11:47 AM, Zella said:

I don't think hair salons have ever been considered part of a phase 1 reopening, probably because of the fact you can't social distance and cut hair

Someone would beg to differ 😂
(source)

umbrella-hair-30.jpg

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Anna's girls have worn dresses pretty much from birth. Lissy wears pants frequently. We've seen Ivy in a lot of pajamas and rompers that aren't dresses. I wonder if when Ivy is wearing street clothes all the time, she'll wear dresses only.

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2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Anna's girls have worn dresses pretty much from birth. Lissy wears pants frequently. We've seen Ivy in a lot of pajamas and rompers that aren't dresses. I wonder if when Ivy is wearing street clothes all the time, she'll wear dresses only.

Jessa doesn't seem to be doing dresses only herself anymore; we can only hope that Ivy is allowed to wear pants when she's playing rather than being encumbered with a dress and leggings 24/7.

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2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Jessa doesn't seem to be doing dresses only herself anymore; we can only hope that Ivy is allowed to wear pants when she's playing rather than being encumbered with a dress and leggings 24/7.

I could see the same thing with Gracie and even Bella. 

Whereas I think Addison will go down the same path as the M girls. 

And who knows with Baby Girl Forsyth.

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2 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

I could see the same thing with Gracie and even Bella. 

Whereas I think Addison will go down the same path as the M girls. 

And who knows with Baby Girl Forsyth.

We've seen Bella wear jeans. 

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14 minutes ago, Temperance said:

We've seen Bella wear jeans. 

That's my point. Abbie has worn pants, so I can see Gracie wearing pants. Bella has been allowed to wear jeans (and, IIRC, that was selected by Josiah).

I think the main hard-core dress proponents will be Kendra and Anna and so their daughters will be strictly dresses and skirts. 

Joy's a wild card and I think it will depend on what Austin says. 

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I'm guessing Ivy and Jessa will always be in dresses/skirts when out and about, and occasionally wear pants at home.

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3 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

I think the main hard-core dress proponents will be Kendra and Anna and so their daughters will be strictly dresses and skirts. 

Anna will never give an inch on any of their insane rules. She's a True Believer who finds security in a rigid set of do's and don'ts to follow. More importantly, she is hell-bent on presenting herself to the world as the perfect Fundie wife and mother to prove that her marriage is a success and that she was right to stand by her monstrous husband. 

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A Walmart in Fayetteville, AR is piloting the store as a self-check-out only. @Zella, would this be the Walmart the Duggars shop at?

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5 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

First the article should come with a trigger warning before Josh's pic assaults you.

Second, I feel bad for the Duggar girls. No one should be able to tell a story of sexual assault without the permission of the assaulted.

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4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

 

Second, I feel bad for the Duggar girls. No one should be able to tell a story of sexual assault without the permission of the assaulted.

I agree. Personally I don't think the police report should've ever been released. I don't think anything involving minors should be made public like that, redacted or not. 

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Has the FOIA been changed to reflect the outing of minors? Because Joy was still a minor (I think) when In Touch released the report. 

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44 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

First the article should come with a trigger warning before Josh's pic assaults you.

Second, I feel bad for the Duggar girls. No one should be able to tell a story of sexual assault without the permission of the assaulted.

Josh is such a wanker.

And yes, the story should have been theirs to tell. I don't feel at all bad for Josh--he should have been outed--but re-victimizing the girls was terrible collateral damage.

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32 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Has the FOIA been changed to reflect the outing of minors? Because Joy was still a minor (I think) when In Touch released the report. 

She was.  I don't think the FOIA has changed at all.  As I recall, the police report that got redacted so poorly would've normally gone over to the juvenile court where it would've been inaccessible.  But, because the statute of limitations had run before JB and M reported Josh' molestation of his sisters; there was nothing that could be prosecuted and the report just sat at the police station or somewhere in a dead case file until In Touch asked for it.  Also, had JB and M, as Joy's parents, requested the report be destroyed at anytime during the years between the report being made and In Touch requesting it, it also would not have been there to be found.  But, JB and M were apparently too busy protecting Josh and raking in money from the TV show to ask.  I would think most parents in their situation would've tried to make sure that their children were protected from publicity, especially since they didn't do much to protect them from their brother.

Looking at the article, it doesn't look like the civil suit made any claims about violating the privacy of a minor specifically, since all 4 of the girls were plaintiffs.  And, it looks like the court wasn't asked to rule on anything involving that, either.  They simply said that the 3 employees named in the suit couldn't be sued for damages, that they had qualified immunity.

It doesn't look to me like the ruling had anything to do with the rightness or wrongness of the Duggar daughters' claims; it was only an opinion that the defendants in the suit could not be made to pay damages to them.  Since attorneys in civil suits usually only get paid if money is won, I expect this is the end of it.  No attorney is going to spend the hundreds of hours to pursue the case in court if there's no money to be won.

Edited by doodlebug
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29 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Has the FOIA been changed to reflect the outing of minors? Because Joy was still a minor (I think) when In Touch released the report. 

I think there was talk about it but I can't remember if anything came out of it. 

FOIA laws need reform everywhere. Everyone involved in this was in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation due to way the laws were written. InTouch knew what they were doing when they requested the records. That seems to be about it. 

I wonder how much the lawsuit ended up costing JB overall. I remember they hired one of the bigwig firms that represents Disney.

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16 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

I think there was talk about it but I can't remember if anything came out of it. 

FOIA laws need reform everywhere. Everyone involved in this was in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation due to way the laws were written. InTouch knew what they were doing when they requested the records. That seems to be about it. 

I wonder how much the lawsuit ended up costing JB overall. I remember they hired one of the bigwig firms that represents Disney.

Many civil suits are filed on contingency if the lawyers think the case is decent.  It could be that JB didn't have to spend a dime on it.

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2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

A Walmart in Fayetteville, AR is piloting the store as a self-check-out only. @Zella, would this be the Walmart the Duggars shop at?

My guess is the Duggars either shop at that one or the one in Springdale. It's about the same distance either way. I've never been to the Springdale one, but this one in north Fayetteville that's doing the self-checkout only is in the middle of a large shopping center, so it would be a convenient location if they were doing any shopping in general. 

There's a second Wal-Mart in south Fayetteville that I shopped at more regularly when I lived there because it was closer to where I lived, though it's a lot grungier. Fayetteville itself is a rather nice college town, and that WM just seems so out of place. (But it is west of the interstate and south of MLK Blvd., which is local code for "nasty part of town." Since Jessa lives fairly close to where I was, I wonder which store she goes to.

The one in south Fayetteville is sort of infamous for being where a local author, um, committed suicide by slitting his own throat when he was caught shoplifting. His book was about the marijuana-growing business he ran with Ralph Baker, the sheriff of Madison County back in the 80s and 90s. Madison County is where Austin is from, btw. 

https://www.4029tv.com/article/local-author-commits-suicide-in-wal-mart/4933124

Anyway, any time I was there, all I could think was, "God, I hope nobody decides to stab themselves in here today." 

Edited by Zella
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37 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

She was.  I don't think the FOIA has changed at all.  As I recall, the police report that got redacted so poorly would've normally gone over to the juvenile court where it would've been inaccessible.  But, because the statute of limitations had run before JB and M reported Josh' molestation of his sisters; there was nothing that could be prosecuted and the report just sat at the police station or somewhere in a dead case file until In Touch asked for it.  Also, had JB and M, as Joy's parents, requested the report be destroyed at anytime during the years between the report being made and In Touch requesting it, it also would not have been there to be found.  But, JB and M were apparently too busy protecting Josh and raking in money from the TV show to ask.  I would think most parents in their situation would've tried to make sure that their children were protected from publicity, especially since they didn't do much to protect them from their brother.

Looking at the article, it doesn't look like the civil suit made any claims about violating the privacy of a minor specifically, since all 4 of the girls were plaintiffs.  And, it looks like the court wasn't asked to rule on anything involving that, either.  They simply said that the 3 employees named in the suit couldn't be sued for damages, that they had qualified immunity.

It doesn't look to me like the ruling had anything to do with the rightness or wrongness of the Duggar daughters' claims; it was only an opinion that the defendants in the suit could not be made to pay damages to them.  Since attorneys in civil suits usually only get paid if money is won, I expect this is the end of it.  No attorney is going to spend the hundreds of hours to pursue the case in court if there's no money to be won.

That's right. They didn't bother to get the records destroyed until about a month before Joy's 18th birthday.  

I feel for the victims, but Boobchelle did them no favors in their frenzy to protect Smuggar. 

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How would anyone know to request records be destroyed?

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5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

How would anyone know to request records be destroyed?

Had Boobchelle dealt with real professionals when this all went down, I imagine that they would have known. That's why I am dubious that the girls got real counseling. 

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14 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

How would anyone know to request records be destroyed?

Hire a real lawyer!  Or talk to a trained social worker!  

Or ... stop protecting the abuser and seek help for the victims. 

Considering the timing, the victims should be more angry at TLC!  Than barely trained county employees who responded by the book. 

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8 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Had Boobchelle dealt with real professionals when this all went down, I imagine that they would have known. That's why I am dubious that the girls got real counseling. 

8 hours ago, fonfereksglen said:

Hire a real lawyer!  Or talk to a trained social worker!  

Or ... stop protecting the abuser and seek help for the victims. 

Considering the timing, the victims should be more angry at TLC!  Than barely trained county employees who responded by the book. 

Cops are real professionals. I'm a "real" therapist, I have a Master's degree in social work and I'm individually licensed. For over 10 years I have worked with folks with varying degrees of involvement with cops, POs, courts (federal, state, juvenile, housing), DCF, jails, etc. My co-workers, colleagues and I do not advise clients on police report retention.

 

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As much as I feel for the Duggar girls in this case, this ruling is correct.  The employees were just doing their job, and no amount of redacting would have kept their identities secret.  Back when the story first broke, my first thought was Josh molested his sisters.  I knew enough of the family from their TV show to know they kept themselves isolated.  

The blame for this lies solely on the shoulders of JB and Michelle who were adults and made bad decision after bad decision after bad decision.  They welcomed a TV crew into their home to highlight their lives knowing what Josh had done to his sisters.  Then they used their platform to push their hate-filled agenda while pretending Josh's actions weren't the worst kept secret in the area.  Their arrogance knows no bounds.  The release of this information was always going to happen.  

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I wonder what Josh “confessed” to in front of the church congregation. I assume it was pretty generic, along the lines of his infamous “Satan built a fortress in my heart” message, which didn’t really say what he did (we only knew the basic details of that because it was reported in the media). I find it hard to believe that he truly confessed to what he had done, or that Anna knew the whole truth about it before they were married. 

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1 hour ago, MargeGunderson said:

I wonder what Josh “confessed” to in front of the church congregation. I assume it was pretty generic, along the lines of his infamous “Satan built a fortress in my heart” message, which didn’t really say what he did (we only knew the basic details of that because it was reported in the media). I find it hard to believe that he truly confessed to what he had done, or that Anna knew the whole truth about it before they were married. 

The media found out about the police report because a gay couple told them about it after Michelle started campaigning against transgender people using the restroom corresponding to their gender identity.  As I recall, the woman who spilled the beans was quite specific with them and knew that Josh had molested his sisters.  If a random gay woman in their town knew exactly what Josh had done, I doubt that anything was glossed over for the congregation.

Recall these people are Gothard followers and the first question to ask a child who has been molested is what is it that they did that caused the molester to attack them.  The sin is as much on the victim as the violator.   We've seen posts where similar young men claimed they molested their sisters because they saw them naked in the tub or getting their diapers changed as babies.  JB and M undoubtedly sought to cast Josh as the victim of Satan and his sisters in this situation.

I do agree that Anna probably didn't know the specifics, but, even if she had, she's a Gothardite, too, and would've felt that Josh had been tempted into it and it was not all his fault.

Edited by doodlebug
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