The Duggars and Their World: Fashion, Food, Finance, Schoolin’ and Child Rearin'

[Churchhoney]

Seeing Jinger's over the top Smokey Eyes last night had me thinking. In the Gothard manual, is there a section on how ladies should wear makeup? Along the lines of less is more or is it left up to the discretion of how the headship likes it? Ewww....just typing "headship" makes me skivvy.

 

This web post critical of ATI has a whole list of things allegedly from a Gothard manual (I expect they are, but I can't swear to it -- they have page numbers) and there's this on makeup -- dunno what else is in the passage that's briefly quoted.

 

p.279  "Cosmetics should be used to enhance your facial appearance..."     And there's also this --- pp.276ff  This section tells us how we are to dress.  Some of the information about modesty is very good, but too much emphasis is placed on appearances; e.g., "Wear special accents near your face." Then he says, "Men should note that facial hair tends to obscure the countenance."

 

The whole post is quite an interesting read.      http://watchmansbagpipes.blogspot.com/2011/08/bill-gothards-ati-textbook-examined.html

[Barb23]

I'm on chapter 3 of this book and I spend half the time with my mouth  wide open and the other half fighting tears. Thank y'all for recommending it.

I'm about halfway thru the book & am having same reactions. It does explain some of the reasons why the Duggars are the way they are & why the older kids just won't up & leave.

I thought it interesting there was still some of the usual cliquey things going on while Jocelyn (author) went to Christian schools & college. Like the "cool girls" wore the long khaki skirts & polo shirts. Don't think that outfit would be considered cool in a public school but it meant something to them. I still laugh at the part where her sister was caught masturbating with the hymnal during church services. A girls got to do.......

[sometimesy]

So how did we get out? Well, we couldn’t just leave. It seems so easy, right? Just walk out of the door.

But if we moved out of the house, God would allow Satan to attack us, destroying our physical health, mental health, finances, future career, and future relationships and marriage....

I can’t even begin to explore what would have happened if I had stayed in my parents’ house instead of leaving with my siblings during the intervention. I think it would have been an incredibly dark experience. I do know that once I started living on my own, I began to experience happiness. I did forget the horrors of the cult. I think I can honestly say that I was happy on my own. Especially when I was geographically far away from my family....

And then it hit. I was 33 and a half. The PTSD knocked me blindside, and everything fell apart. My health fell apart, even though I struggled for a year to keep myself together. I had to eventually give up my teaching career. Well, I put in for a year’s leave of absence, but my health wouldn’t allow me to go back after that year was up. I had to give up my apartment, my boyfriend left me, acquaintances disappeared, and I didn’t really have friends… the only thing I had left was my family. I had literally forgotten how strange and cruel they were....

I went back into the cult.

It's the perfect setup. The prediction that awful things will happen if they leave. Awful things happen to everyone. No one needs to be a psychic to know that just by virtue of being alive there will be suffering. "Life is suffering" Buddha

[Churchhoney]

It's the perfect setup. The prediction that awful things will happen if they leave. Awful things happen to everyone. No one needs to be a psychic to know that just by virtue of being alive there will be suffering. "Life is suffering" Buddha

 

Which I guess is why the people who actually join a group like this (such as JB), and who then involve their children through brainwashing, tend to be people who are insecure and fearful and also unrealistic enough to think that they can magically get some "umbrella of protection" against those facts. Gothard repeatedly promises that following his silly rules will actually protect you from the thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to and even bring you tangible boons you wouldn't get otherwise (up to and including getting upgraded to first class on airlines without even asking, as another ex-Gothardite wrote at Homeschoolers Anonymous a while ago).  It's a very infantile form of "religion," so it's not surprising that you can convince children of it, especially in households where the parents likely radiate fear of the unknown and so on all through the household so the kids are scared into thinking that they'll never be safe without these magical protections.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Micks Picks]

An upgrade to first class?  Hey if they can promise me it will happen Every Single Time, I'm in.

[Churchhoney]

An upgrade to first class?  Hey if they can promise me it will happen Every Single Time, I'm in.

 

Well, you're in luck because I don't think he said it'd happen every single time. Just that, if you followed all his rules, people would be so impressed with you that first-class upgrades would happen -- sort of when you least expected it. ... So you don't have to join. Thank your lucky stars!

[GeeGolly]

It's the perfect setup. The prediction that awful things will happen if they leave. Awful things happen to everyone. No one needs to be a psychic to know that just by virtue of being alive there will be suffering. "Life is suffering" Buddha

Isn't it scary that the IFB beliefs are so strong?

 

The woman who blogged about her experience of being raised IFB, then leaving, and then returning reminded me a little of Jill, in the 'look-at-me, I'm a believer mommy & daddy' kind of way. I also think the Duggar 19 interact with secular people much like she did when in college; with blinders and self-righteousness.

 

Life has to suck when one lives with an undercurrent of fear all the time.

[Churchhoney]

Isn't it scary that the IFB beliefs are so strong?

 

 

Yeah, really scary. Terrifying, really, to think that things so contrary to all reason and fact and even to people's own self interest can have such a strong hold and prompt so many actions.

[kokapetl]

Michelle is dressed to kick in some heads.

[GeeGolly]

Are my eyes deceiving me? Is Michelle's helmet, I mean hair moving?

[Mollie]

Are my eyes deceiving me? Is Michelle's helmet, I mean hair moving?

Who knows what might be crawling around inside that mop.  Michelle needs to buy a hairbrush instead of a sack full of used baby clothes.  

[Barb23]

Which Lost Girl is that? I guess she is turning into a Jslave now - she's wearing flip flops, the official shoe of the J'slaves.

Looks like MEchelle is using her readers as a fashion statement. I noticed she was wearing them like that on one of the new episodes.

[Marigold]

Michelle's shoes are always so odd.

[louannems]

Which Lost Girl is that? I guess she is turning into a Jslave now - she's wearing flip flops, the official shoe of the J'slaves. Looks like MEchelle is using her readers as a fashion statement. I noticed she was wearing them like that on one of the new episodes.

mo

That is Jenni. Why is she wearing flip-flops (and the CHEAPEST type) in winter? Michelle is wearing her wooden clogs and dam, but she is so stuck in the 80's with that horrid hair!

[riverblue22]

I do think Michelle should do her part for the new show.  Jessa has to laugh and adopt an entertaining personality that is not her at all.  Jana has to sit and answer embarrassing questions about her future and her lack of a husband.  JD has to pretend to have a personality.  Michelle should undergo a makeover and get new hair and new clothes.  Now that would be entertaining to see Michelle update herself!  And she would look so much better.

 

ETA:  I don't mean a onetime makeover like she has already done.  I mean a new hairstyle that she keeps.  She can go shopping with Jinger to a real department store and find some nice dresses or at least up to date tops.

Edited March 23, 2016 by riverblue22

[redlaces]

You hardly ever see the girls wearing sensible shoes. Like ever. Are tennis shoes for boys only? I am not as up on these people as some of you, so I'm honestly wondering. In the pics I see, it's always barefoot or flip flops. I guess I don't pick my feet up high enough when I walk because whenever I wore flip flops I was always tripping by the tops getting caught on the floor. Damn even some 80's jelly's or something. Noticing the glasses on Michelle's shirt. Have we ever seen her wearing glasses? I don't recall. 

[BitterApple]

Those girls are going to have all kinds of problems if they don't start wearing shoes with better support. Flip flops in the summer are one thing, but wearing them your entire life? Not to mention, Jenni's flip flops looks two sizes too big.

[StaceyNotStacie]

The older girls should invest in some Skechers or Clarks shoes. There are some cute designs and they could still wear comfortable sandals if that is what they prefer.

[egilsdottir]

 

p.279  "Cosmetics should be used to enhance your facial appearance..."     And there's also this --- pp.276ff  This section tells us how we are to dress.  Some of the information about modesty is very good, but too much emphasis is placed on appearances; e.g., "Wear special accents near your face." Then he says, "Men should note that facial hair tends to obscure the countenance."

 

The "wear special accents near your face" part reminds me of that douchelord Pick Up Artist guy (he had a show on VH1 around 2007/2008). He used to tell guys to wear guyliner and accents like hats and necklaces (I think he called it "peacocking") to attract the attention of women. So Gothard is like a fundy pick up artist, I suppose. The whole courting thing is basically one elaborate mating ritual.

[sometimesy]

The "wear special accents near your face" part reminds me of that douchelord Pick Up Artist guy (he had a show on VH1 around 2007/2008). He used to tell guys to wear guyliner and accents like hats and necklaces (I think he called it "peacocking") to attract the attention of women. So Gothard is like a fundy pick up artist, I suppose. The whole courting thing is basically one elaborate mating ritual.

It's all about breeding, and not creating a home, or raising children in a loving nurturing environment. 

[LilyoftheValley]

Fundies are slaves to the baser instincts of humans.  They're all just monkeys in shoes (or flip flops as the case may be). 

[NewDigs]

The older girls should invest in some Skechers or Clarks shoes. There are some cute designs and they could still wear comfortable sandals if that is what they prefer.

Why aren't flips consided Nike? They make exceptions for cheap? Back and foot problems can be quite pricey.

And there are companies that make cute wood clogs but the prices might give Mechelle agita. Wonder where she gets hers? Those suckers ain't cheap.

Orthodontia isn't cheap either. These freaks have a very fluid relationship with budgeting.

[Ocean Chick]

Flip flops are the approved footwear, according to Gothard.  The better to get his foot fetish thrill on.  If females wore sensible shoes, how would he get his rocks off, after all?

[NewDigs]

Flip flops are the approved footwear, according to Gothard.  The better to get his foot fetish thrill on.  If females wore sensible shoes, how would he get his rocks off, after all?

Oh. I forgot. Ew.

How sad.

[poopchute]

Do any of the children vote? They can't watch tv right, and do they read a newspaper? I was just wondering how informed they might be about the upcoming election and if any of them vote.

[Aja]

Do any of the children vote? They can't watch tv right, and do they read a newspaper? I was just wondering how informed they might be about the upcoming election and if any of them vote.

Plenty of them are of age, and politics is a big obsession with their cult. I have no doubt they'll vote for whomever Boob tells them to vote for. Trump despises women, they're probably alright with him.

[GeeGolly]

Do any of the children vote? They can't watch tv right, and do they read a newspaper? I was just wondering how informed they might be about the upcoming election and if any of them vote.

I believe I saw a picture of Spurgeon with an I voted sticker.

[BitterApple]

Early on in Josh and Anna's marriage there was a scene of them voting. So yes, they do vote...for Daddy-approved candidates.

[Micks Picks]

Cruz would currently be their man, certainly not Trump.  Cruz is the anti-abortion preacher like candidate/

[frenchtoast]

A reminder: no politics talk. It's fine right now, because it's about the Duggar's and speculation about who'd they pick. But it can easily slide into discussing the actual candidates. We've all seen how vitriolic that can be out in the internet and real world; let's avoid that here. Please? Thanks!

[BrianJ62]

I remember some of the J kids using campaign signs from Jim Bob's failed political campaign as slides in the yard.

[CofCinci]

I remember some of the J kids using campaign signs from Jim Bob's failed political campaign as slides in the yard.

Probably better for the cats too.

[NewDigs]

I remember some of the J kids using campaign signs from Jim Bob's failed political campaign as slides in the yard.

Good use, I'd say.

Not sure I wouldn't mind rubbing ass with one.

[MarysWetBar]

A reminder: no politics talk. It's fine right now, because it's about the Duggar's and speculation about who'd they pick. But it can easily slide into discussing the actual candidates. We've all seen how vitriolic that can be out in the internet and real world; let's avoid that here. Please? Thanks!

You are, quite honestly, the nicest mod on PTV. Always respectful, never school-marmy..just nice. I respond so well to nice :)

[Albanyguy]

I still can't get over how nice all the mods are here. Quite a change from TWoP.

[louannems]

https://m.facebook.com/duggarfamilyofficial#!/duggarfamilyofficial/photos/a.516618088471845.1073741827.510067475793573/800823870051264/?type=3&source=48&__tn__=E

I know the Duggar's claim they don't really watch TV, but isn't this what a big family looks like all watching a show or movie together? They must be rewatching Lawrence Welk!

[Mollie]

https://m.facebook.com/duggarfamilyofficial#!/duggarfamilyofficial/photos/a.516618088471845.1073741827.510067475793573/800823870051264/?type=3&source=48&__tn__=E

I know the Duggar's claim they don't really watch TV, but isn't this what a big family looks like all watching a show or movie together? They must be rewatching Lawrence Welk!

They supposedly watch their reality show on DVDs.  

[NewDigs]

They supposedly watch their reality show on DVDs.

Oh to be a fly on the wall...

[kokapetl]

https://m.facebook.com/duggarfamilyofficial#!/duggarfamilyofficial/photos/a.516618088471845.1073741827.510067475793573/800823870051264/?type=3&source=48&__tn__=E

I know the Duggar's claim they don't really watch TV, but isn't this what a big family looks like all watching a show or movie together? They must be rewatching Lawrence Welk!

Maybe they should take Jackson to an endocrinologist. He looks tiny.

[JoanArc]

They supposedly watch their reality show on DVDs.  

and Andy Griffith. Presumably not Matlock.

[BitterApple]

Gosh, Jackson doesn't look that much bigger than Mikey, who's what, four or five? I know some kids are naturally on the small side, but jeez louise, he's tiny.

[GeeGolly]

Maybe they should take Jackson to an endocrinologist. He looks tiny.

Looks like that couch is very near the kitchen island and angled toward the front door/church pew and playroom. What could they be doing? Do they have a sheet hanging up and are projecting a show/movie on it? Such a strange place to plop a couch. Maybe they're having a four square tournament.

[riverblue22]

I wonder if Jackson ever gets to the doctor for a check-up?  If he did they would know if he is having developmental issues.  I'm thinking they never take the older children to the doctor unless they get really sick.  Keeping him with the little ones sure isn't doing him any good.  He's one of the truly lost ones.

[Barb23]

Maybe they should take Jackson to an endocrinologist. He looks tiny.

Is this a recent picture? I thought one of the Jeb Jer twins had his head shaved (?Alert). I took a quick look at first & thought that was Spurge instead of Mer. Someone posted earlier that Spurge resembled Joshley in another picture. I can definitely see a family resemblance with them. Too bad they resemble Joshley, maybe they'll grow out of it.

Regarding the couches. It seems like in this house they are used as toys and forts & get pushed around & left willy nilly. I wonder if the original couches have survived this family. I guess they can always use the Jerick furniture from the McMansion. I don't think I've ever seen a recliner in the TTH. You would think Boob would have one as a throne. You know, the Dad type of Lazy Boy that only his highness can sit in.

[egilsdottir]

The Duggars posted: "He must increase, but I must decrease," - John 3:30 KJV on their FB. What the hell does that mean? The Duggars certainly don't believe the "decrease" part relates to population control. Or using disposable plates, cups, etc.

[ginger90]

The Duggars posted: "He must increase, but I must decrease," - John 3:30 KJV on their FB. What the hell does that mean? The Duggars certainly don't believe the "decrease" part relates to population control. Or using disposable plates, cups, etc.

I'm thinking it means Jesus, God whatever is to always be in control. Or perhaps the "He" is husband? Guess idk, lol.

[Jynnan tonnix]

I'm thinking it means Jesus, God whatever is to always be in control. Or perhaps the "He" is husband? Guess idk, lol.

Haha! Your second thought made me laugh...it certainly seems to be true that the "headship" has a tendency to bloat up while the "helpmeet" strives to remain svelte!

[egilsdottir]

Haha! Your second thought made me laugh...it certainly seems to be true that the "headship" has a tendency to bloat up while the "helpmeet" strives to remain svelte!

 

I'll bet the Duggars have no idea what that passage means, either. Or maybe it DOES mean that the "headship" can let himself go (increase), while his "joyfully available" wife should walk on the treadmill for at least an hour a day while wearing a long denim skirt in order to remain svelte (decrease).

 

Maybe we should invite eminent theologian BIN out for a frappucino at Starbucks, where he can explain what the passage means.

Edited April 4, 2016 by egilsdottir

[Missy Vixen]

 

Maybe we should invite eminent theologian BIN out for a frappucino at Starbucks, where he can explain what the passage means.

IMHO and it's just a hunch. That verse was not posted by accident.

 

There may be more trouble in Tontitown. Again, IMHO.

[GeeGolly]

The Duggars posted: "He must increase, but I must decrease," - John 3:30 KJV on their FB. What the hell does that mean? The Duggars certainly don't believe the "decrease" part relates to population control. Or using disposable plates, cups, etc.

Don't judge me ... but the first thing that came to mind was this silly rhyme we laughingly recited when younger. I'll just share the beginning - We, must, we must, we must increase our ...