kokapetl February 17, 2016 Share February 17, 2016 Upon JimBob's death, the family will be buried alive in his tomb. I'm only half joking. 13 Link to comment
Mollie February 17, 2016 Share February 17, 2016 Upon JimBob's death, the family will be buried alive in his tomb. I'm only half joking. If Michelle dies first, Jim Bob will marry a younger woman and have more kids. 6 Link to comment
GeeGolly February 17, 2016 Share February 17, 2016 Upon JimBob's death, the family will be buried alive in his tomb. I'm only half joking. If Michelle dies first, Jim Bob will marry a younger woman and have more kids. I'm not sure which of these is worse. 4 Link to comment
Barb23 February 17, 2016 Share February 17, 2016 If Michelle dies first, Jim Bob will marry a younger woman and have more kids. And the wrath of MEchelle will reign from Heaven. 4 Link to comment
Churchhoney February 17, 2016 Share February 17, 2016 I've wondered the same thing as far as retirement. A spouse can collect their spouses Social Security, as can minor children collect a parent's SSI, if the parent dies. The TLC money, unless invested well, will dry up in ten years or so supporting all the stay-at-home Duggar children. You need to pay into the system to take out. If none of the Duggars are tax paying adults how will they survive in their 'retirement' years? "Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." "Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?" I have a feeling this is what they're clinging to. And why would the parents of these families really care? They're all complete narcissists and they'll be dead. 2 Link to comment
Sew Sumi February 17, 2016 Share February 17, 2016 They have a trust, so they have certainly thought about the division of assets. Probably to all the boys, with a recent amendment to remove Josh as a beneficiary. 2 Link to comment
BitterApple February 17, 2016 Share February 17, 2016 They have a trust, so they have certainly thought about the division of assets. Probably to all the boys, with a recent amendment to remove Josh as a beneficiary. I'd always worried that Josh was listed as executor of the estate. I had no doubts that he would've screwed his siblings out of their fair share of the inheritance if given a chance. Thanks to Danica, I don't think that will happen. 4 Link to comment
Churchhoney February 17, 2016 Share February 17, 2016 They have a trust, so they have certainly thought about the division of assets. Probably to all the boys, with a recent amendment to remove Josh as a beneficiary. There's no way they have enough money to last that many people into retirement, though. So, yeah, greedy rotten Jim Bob would do something to make sure that whatever is left when he rots for real goes to his spawn and not elsewhere, and according to his ideas. But that's not in the least the same as thinking about your kids' long-term future. He clearly doesn't think about that at all, if you ask me, since he strongly encourages them to get no education or training and hold no jobs that would qualify them for Social Security or any other long-term funds that come from something other than his (paltry-when-you-have-19-kids-cum-dependents) trust. Jim Bob's trust is to keep Jim Bob's money from escaping in ways he wouldn't want. It's for him, in my opinion, not for the kids. 8 Link to comment
questionfear February 19, 2016 Share February 19, 2016 I'd always worried that Josh was listed as executor of the estate. I had no doubts that he would've screwed his siblings out of their fair share of the inheritance if given a chance. Thanks to Danica, I don't think that will happen. No doubt he would have tried, but I would assume if JB were gone the other kids wouldn't be kowtowing to Josh...so if he pulled any funny business he'd just end up with everything tied up in court. Link to comment
Sew Sumi February 19, 2016 Share February 19, 2016 Agreed. JB probably made a lot of changes to the trust after Joshgate II. I imagine that since he's so paranoid of being ripped off (not to mention paying lawyer fees), that Josh was likely named the executor. I imagine that Boob slashed Josh's share of the estate and named JD as the new executor. I still maintain that any married daughters will be SOL in this trust, since they are supposed to be dependent on their husbands. Who knows? This may actually come to pass one day; we know it certainly isn't the case now. JB can only find so many jobs for 10 sons and lord knows how many dependent sons-in-law to come. 2 Link to comment
Barb23 February 19, 2016 Share February 19, 2016 Agreed. JB probably made a lot of changes to the trust after Joshgate II. I imagine that since he's so paranoid of being ripped off (not to mention paying lawyer fees), that Josh was likely named the executor. I imagine that Boob slashed Josh's share of the estate and named JD as the new executor. I still maintain that any married daughters will be SOL in this trust, since they are supposed to be dependent on their husbands. Who knows? This may actually come to pass one day; we know it certainly isn't the case now. JB can only find so many jobs for 10 sons and lord knows how many dependent sons-in-law to come. It is so weird with the Duggars - in their world, the married daughters haven't left the family (like Anna did). They just bring their husbands on board the train. Is it because of TV? Or enticement of a house & job? (I don't consider working for Boob an enticement.) I know the Dullards are living out of the country now, but before there missioncation, they were living in the probably free Stoneybrook house. 5 Link to comment
Churchhoney February 22, 2016 Share February 22, 2016 (edited) Woman says that her family participated in ATI at the very fringes, with minimal contact with Gothard and the organization, but that her parents nevertheless heard enough through the rumor mill to begin putting two and two together about BG's particular creepazoidness long before any of the women's stories were made public. .... So if these people knew what he was, there's no way that people like the Bateses and Duggars, who were very plugged in and active, had not heard the same rumors. For decades. http://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/02/22/bill-gothards-abuse-is-not-a-surprise/ 'In middle school: 'Me: “Why does this say we have to curl our hair?”'Dad (beginning to connect the dots): “Gothard is attracted to women with wavy, though not too curly, hair. *He* likes women that way. That’s why he says this.”... 'I can still remember the conversation my parents had about the daughter Hope at the dinner table that day. Hope was “his type.” Hope had “long, thick wavy hair and perfect complexion.” Hope had little education, and would wait on his every beck and call, because she wouldn’t know better. Dad just kept saying, “Gothard is creepy; I know he is. He spent his whole life [indirectly] telling us that our daughters with very straight hair had inferior hair because it isn’t wavy. Too bad the girls didn’t get my hair, haha.” 'I want to be clear; this conversation occurred long before the testimonies of Gothard’s “type” surfaced the internet through the website Recovering Grace. In fact, my family did not have internet at this time that I remember, other than email via dial-up. My parents had this conversations without any personal verification; they obviously had heard gossip about his “pets” and “types,” but they never heard that he was actually touching young girls.' Edited February 22, 2016 by Churchhoney 4 Link to comment
GeeGolly February 23, 2016 Share February 23, 2016 Woman says that her family participated in ATI at the very fringes, with minimal contact with Gothard and the organization, but that her parents nevertheless heard enough through the rumor mill to begin putting two and two together about BG's particular creepazoidness long before any of the women's stories were made public. .... So if these people knew what he was, there's no way that people like the Bateses and Duggars, who were very plugged in and active, had not heard the same rumors. For decades. http://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/02/22/bill-gothards-abuse-is-not-a-surprise/ 'In middle school: 'Me: “Why does this say we have to curl our hair?” 'Dad (beginning to connect the dots): “Gothard is attracted to women with wavy, though not too curly, hair. *He* likes women that way. That’s why he says this.”... 'I can still remember the conversation my parents had about the daughter Hope at the dinner table that day. Hope was “his type.” Hope had “long, thick wavy hair and perfect complexion.” Hope had little education, and would wait on his every beck and call, because she wouldn’t know better. Dad just kept saying, “Gothard is creepy; I know he is. He spent his whole life [indirectly] telling us that our daughters with very straight hair had inferior hair because it isn’t wavy. Too bad the girls didn’t get my hair, haha.” 'I want to be clear; this conversation occurred long before the testimonies of Gothard’s “type” surfaced the internet through the website Recovering Grace. In fact, my family did not have internet at this time that I remember, other than email via dial-up. My parents had this conversations without any personal verification; they obviously had heard gossip about his “pets” and “types,” but they never heard that he was actually touching young girls.' I totally believe this. Not to offend anyone, but look at all the priests in the Catholic church. They weren't just hiding and covering for one man, but many men. It is so scary what some folks will do in the name of, or the fear of, religious leaders. 8 Link to comment
Barb23 February 23, 2016 Share February 23, 2016 I was thinking about the Duggar's SOTDRT. I'm sure it was hard for the J'slaves to get interested or concentrate on a lesson because of the interruptions. "Jana get Jackson a drink" or "Jill, Josie needs to be changed." Not to mention what we have already seen by the little ones being underfoot. My favorite was the picture of one of the little girls on a bike squeezing behind an occupied chair in the dining area. I commented that it must have been recess or gym class for the bike rider, while others were working at the table. If I were one of the kids, I would have loved to put on earphones & do a lesson on the computer just to get away from the nonsense. It's a miracle the older kids got as far as they did. 3 Link to comment
Muffyn February 23, 2016 Share February 23, 2016 Holy crap! I read some of the blog posts of that guy, and he says among other things that girls "did not exist" and that they actually had a 40-second time limit when speaking to females...anything over 40 seconds was considered "fraternizing with the enemy." So essentially, Josh diddled his sisters and the babysitter and then was sent to military-style camp where he was more or less trained to think of women as...LITERALLY...the enemy. Awesome. I think we learn from this that it takes Gothard just over 40 seconds to get an erection. So at 40 seconds he assumes boys are safe from springing forth toward the evil women. No surprise Joshie was accused of choking a woman he was paying for sex. He wouldn't see her as fully human and deserving respect, so why not choke her? After all, she is the enemy. 2 Link to comment
Marigold February 24, 2016 Share February 24, 2016 I was thinking about the Duggar's SOTDRT. I'm sure it was hard for the J'slaves to get interested or concentrate on a lesson because of the interruptions. "Jana get Jackson a drink" or "Jill, Josie needs to be changed." Not to mention what we have already seen by the little ones being underfoot. My favorite was the picture of one of the little girls on a bike squeezing behind an occupied chair in the dining area. I commented that it must have been recess or gym class for the bike rider, while others were working at the table. If I were one of the kids, I would have loved to put on earphones & do a lesson on the computer just to get away from the nonsense. It's a miracle the older kids got as far as they did. As a homeschooler, i totally agree. We have only seen snipets of their homeschooling but it does seem that there is little regard for "people working quietly." 2 Link to comment
Arwen Evenstar February 28, 2016 Share February 28, 2016 I was thinking about the Duggar's SOTDRT. I'm sure it was hard for the J'slaves to get interested or concentrate on a lesson because of the interruptions. "Jana get Jackson a drink" or "Jill, Josie needs to be changed." Not to mention what we have already seen by the little ones being underfoot. My favorite was the picture of one of the little girls on a bike squeezing behind an occupied chair in the dining area. I commented that it must have been recess or gym class for the bike rider, while others were working at the table. If I were one of the kids, I would have loved to put on earphones & do a lesson on the computer just to get away from the nonsense. It's a miracle the older kids got as far as they did. Sounds like it has now become apparent that the inmates are running the asylum! Upon JimBob's death, the family will be buried alive in his tomb. I'm only half joking. Sadly that's probably the only way they'll ever be free! Ding Dong! Link to comment
louannems February 28, 2016 Share February 28, 2016 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/samantha-field-stay-at-home-daughters&ved=0ahUKEwivxdfR9ZrLAhUBx2MKHXUxBd4QFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNFjcDCDb8No-jNkrrI4ZIp5pnC-vQ&sig2=3Tv1lc-KpuOwRWT9NAwD5Q I've been so intrigued by the adult Duggar girls not leaving the nest. And I've read Sarah Maxwell's blog about doing housework and waiting for her godly husband to appear on her doorstep. Since the boards are so quiet, I googled stay at home daughters and this is the first link that appeared. I hope you all enjoy this article as much as I did! 6 Link to comment
NewDigs February 28, 2016 Share February 28, 2016 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/samantha-field-stay-at-home-daughters&ved=0ahUKEwivxdfR9ZrLAhUBx2MKHXUxBd4QFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNFjcDCDb8No-jNkrrI4ZIp5pnC-vQ&sig2=3Tv1lc-KpuOwRWT9NAwD5Q I've been so intrigued by the adult Duggar girls not leaving the nest. And I've read Sarah Maxwell's blog about doing housework and waiting for her godly husband to appear on her doorstep. Since the boards are so quiet, I googled stay at home daughters and this is the first link that appeared. I hope you all enjoy this article as much as I did! Gah! Titus again. This crew can find a bible verse to justify just about anything. 1 Link to comment
louannems February 28, 2016 Share February 28, 2016 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2014/12/31/when-a-stay-at-home-daughter-rebels-reumahs-story-part-one/&ved=0ahUKEwji1uvv-prLAhUP8GMKHY1PBEMQFghJMAs&usg=AFQjCNHSmh2Ye0ZUscVNjGtmYYR-VT140Q&sig2=FdOML0Jv5fhKpOoYeKq51w Another SAHD link 2 Link to comment
riverblue22 February 28, 2016 Share February 28, 2016 Well, the SAHDs aren't adding to God's army. There's that. 7 Link to comment
Churchhoney February 28, 2016 Share February 28, 2016 Sounds like it has now become apparent that the inmates are running the asylum! Could you enlighten me about who the TTH's non-inmates would be? Not JB and M, certainly. So... uh... Grandma and Jana? Link to comment
GeeGolly February 28, 2016 Share February 28, 2016 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/samantha-field-stay-at-home-daughters&ved=0ahUKEwivxdfR9ZrLAhUBx2MKHXUxBd4QFggbMAA&usg=AFQjCNFjcDCDb8No-jNkrrI4ZIp5pnC-vQ&sig2=3Tv1lc-KpuOwRWT9NAwD5Q I've been so intrigued by the adult Duggar girls not leaving the nest. And I've read Sarah Maxwell's blog about doing housework and waiting for her godly husband to appear on her doorstep. Since the boards are so quiet, I googled stay at home daughters and this is the first link that appeared. I hope you all enjoy this article as much as I did! The second to last paragraph really stood out to me: "For most of my life I was utterly convinced that staying at home was what I wanted, a personal conviction that I had. It took me six years and two degrees in order for me to fully realize that it wasn’t something I ever would have chosen for myself if I’d been truly allowed to consider any other option." 4 Link to comment
Micks Picks February 28, 2016 Share February 28, 2016 The author of one of these articles described her early life as dad having an upper echelon job, a nice 3 bedroom brick home, and her mother puttering around at home all day. Puttering? What disrespect. 3 Link to comment
Arwen Evenstar February 29, 2016 Share February 29, 2016 Could you enlighten me about who the TTH's non-inmates would be? Not JB and M, certainly. So... uh... Grandma and Jana? Churchie, I was referring to a post that was describing what utter chaos the Duggars "home fooling" environment looks like with the Howlers and Lost Girls riding bicycles and scooters in the house instead of learning. It seems that any sort of education they might have actually received is now pretty much forsaken, particularly with two fewer J slaves to rein in the feral children.. You did make an excellent point by wondering who the non inmates are. It's all a circus no matter how you want to look at it! Boob and Googly Eyes are living proof that just because they can demonstrate that just because one mathematically CAN have 19 kids and they actually did do that and so did the Bates Family....doesn't mean they really should have. Even all that might lurk beneath in the Bates Family, they seem to be much better parents than the Duggars could ever dream of being, Their kids seem to have had a far more normal experience growing up and adjusting to reality...for growing up Fundy strict , that's saying a lot. 1 Link to comment
Churchhoney February 29, 2016 Share February 29, 2016 Churchie, I was referring to a post that was describing what utter chaos the Duggars "home fooling" environment looks like with the Howlers and Lost Girls riding bicycles and scooters in the house instead of learning. It seems that any sort of education they might have actually received is now pretty much forsaken, particularly with two fewer J slaves to rein in the feral children.. You did make an excellent point by wondering who the non inmates are. It's all a circus no matter how you want to look at it! Boob and Googly Eyes are living proof that just because they can demonstrate that just because one mathematically CAN have 19 kids and they actually did do that and so did the Bates Family....doesn't mean they really should have. Even all that might lurk beneath in the Bates Family, they seem to be much better parents than the Duggars could ever dream of being, Their kids seem to have had a far more normal experience growing up and adjusting to reality...for growing up Fundy strict , that's saying a lot. Sorry -- I got what you were saying, and I strongly agree! ISomehow I came across as disagreeing and/or snippy. Not my intent! I was trying to make a joke about JB and M being immature and therefore members of the "inmate" class.... They remind me of Josie and Jackson, only without the excuse of being kids and with some malice aforethought! 1 Link to comment
Arwen Evenstar February 29, 2016 Share February 29, 2016 Sorry -- I got what you were saying, and I strongly agree! ISomehow I came across as disagreeing and/or snippy. Not my intent! I was trying to make a joke about JB and M being immature and therefore members of the "inmate" class.... They remind me of Josie and Jackson, only without the excuse of being kids and with some malice aforethought! No offense taken, my dear Churchie girl. Your posts always are enlightening and spot on....and often hilarious. I figured you were joking, but just in case my post had been unclear I was merely clarifying myself. 2 Link to comment
GeeGolly March 6, 2016 Share March 6, 2016 Has anyone posted this before? I wasn't sure where to post it because different parts of the article scream different Duggar's names. Interesting short read though. http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1320-5-insane-lessons-from-my-christian-fundamentalist-childhood.html 5 Link to comment
louannems March 6, 2016 Share March 6, 2016 Has anyone posted this before? I wasn't sure where to post it because different parts of the article scream different Duggar's names. Interesting short read though. http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1320-5-insane-lessons-from-my-christian-fundamentalist-childhood.html I just read it. Thanks for posting. It appears there are lots of different cults even within the Fundamental Baptist churches. Some quiver and some don't. In Girl At The End Of The World, by Elizabeth Esther, she was an only child. Her parents were still crazy Fundamentalists. The whole quiverfulls of building an army to outnumber the worldly is assuming all of your quivers will follow your arrow. Which I guess most do. Sadly! 1 Link to comment
Albanyguy March 6, 2016 Share March 6, 2016 (edited) The whole quiverfulls of building an army to outnumber the worldly is assuming all of your quivers will follow your arrow. Which I guess most do. Sadly! I could be wrong, but I thought that the statistics showed a fairly large drop-off in the current generation of Quiverful/Fundie raised children. Which would explain why they're so desperate to bring in new converts and why their rhetoric is so strident. ("We're the wave of the future! No, really! Because I said so, that's why!!!") Edited March 6, 2016 by Albanyguy 1 Link to comment
Jynnan tonnix March 6, 2016 Share March 6, 2016 I could be wrong, but I thought that the statistics showed a fairly large drop-off in the current generation of Quiverful/Fundie raised children. Which would explain why they're so desperate to bring in new converts and why their rhetoric is so strident. ("We're the wave of the future! No, really! Because I said so, that's why!!!") But what's the "current generation"? Given that these people want to reproduce throughout their child-bearing years, the ones who have closed up shop are probably Michelle's age. Anyone younger is probably still working on it. Or does this mean they are actively trying to limit the size of their family? Link to comment
Churchhoney March 6, 2016 Share March 6, 2016 (edited) I could be wrong, but I thought that the statistics showed a fairly large drop-off in the current generation of Quiverful/Fundie raised children. Which would explain why they're so desperate to bring in new converts and why their rhetoric is so strident. ("We're the wave of the future! No, really! Because I said so, that's why!!!") Yeah, I've seen statistics stating this, too. Pretty clear they're following the traditional new-church/cult/sect demographic trajectory of a pretty steep dropoff as the second, then third, then fourth generations come along. I think the trouble for them -- and the lucky part for the rest of us -- is that for most such groups indoctrinating your dependent children with their malleable baby brains is a much much more effective way of bringing new members in than conversion attempts on adults or even teenagers. And that's especially true after the original charismatic leaders have died or aged significantly, along with the very first wave of super-committed converts who were brought in by those people. I think religion scholars consider the few 19th century American religions that managed to avoid this particular curse, including LDS, Christian Science and Seventh Day Adventists, to be very surprising exceptions to this general rule that afflicts most sects 30-to-50 years in and beyond. (And even they may not be doing as well as they say, considering that these churches' reported membership numbers seem to be flatly contradicted by census data in many of the countries that report religious affiliation.) Some people seem to want this sort of thing, though, so I suppose some new cults will come along to replace the waning Quiverfuls/Christian-patriarch-types, since the insecurities I believe they're largely built on certainly haven't vanished from the population. But what's the "current generation"? Given that these people want to reproduce throughout their child-bearing years, the ones who have closed up shop are probably Michelle's age. Anyone younger is probably still working on it. Or does this mean they are actively trying to limit the size of their family? A lot of even the second-generation young people are leaving these groups, it appears. So that clearly crimps the expansion process. The Kellers' rate of attrition is a lot more common than the iron grip the Duggars, Bates?, Maxwells, Wallers and Botkins seem to exert. That's what I've read, anyway. Among other reasons, the later generations grew up in the poverty and intellectual/emotional deprivation that these particular cults tend to produce in their members. So they're almost certainly more jaded about the ideas than are their parents, who joined on purpose and considered the Quiv/Patri lifestyle a better thing than the more average lives they had as kids. Down under "Why the Second Generation Drops the Ball," you can see a video illustrating how the crazy Botkin family is lamenting this "weakness" in the second generation. .... They're clearly seeing the dropoff. And if the second generation is loosening strings or leaving, that doesn't bode well for a strong third generation. http://westernconservatory.com/store/free Edited March 6, 2016 by Churchhoney 4 Link to comment
JoanArc March 6, 2016 Share March 6, 2016 But what's the "current generation"? Anyone without a TV contract propping up family income. 5 Link to comment
GeeGolly March 6, 2016 Share March 6, 2016 Yeah, I've seen statistics stating this, too. Pretty clear they're following the traditional new-church/cult/sect demographic trajectory of a pretty steep dropoff as the second, then third, then fourth generations come along. I think the trouble for them -- and the lucky part for the rest of us -- is that for most such groups indoctrinating your dependent children with their malleable baby brains is a much much more effective way of bringing new members in than conversion attempts on adults or even teenagers. And that's especially true after the original charismatic leaders have died or aged significantly, along with the very first wave of super-committed converts who were brought in by those people. I think religion scholars consider the few 19th century American religions that managed to avoid this particular curse, including LDS, Christian Science and Seventh Day Adventists, to be very surprising exceptions to this general rule that afflicts most sects 30-to-50 years in and beyond. (And even they may not be doing as well as they say, considering that these churches' reported membership numbers seem to be flatly contradicted by census data in many of the countries that report religious affiliation.) Some people seem to want this sort of thing, though, so I suppose some new cults will come along to replace the waning Quiverfuls/Christian-patriarch-types, since the insecurities I believe they're largely built on certainly haven't vanished from the population. A lot of even the second-generation young people are leaving these groups, it appears. So that clearly crimps the expansion process. The Kellers' rate of attrition is a lot more common than the iron grip the Duggars, Bates?, Maxwells, Wallers and Botkins seem to exert. That's what I've read, anyway. Among other reasons, the later generations grew up in the poverty and intellectual/emotional deprivation that these particular cults tend to produce in their members. So they're almost certainly more jaded about the ideas than are their parents, who joined on purpose and considered the Quiv/Patri lifestyle a better thing than the more average lives they had as kids. Down under "Why the Second Generation Drops the Ball," you can see a video illustrating how the crazy Botkin family is lamenting this "weakness" in the second generation. .... They're clearly seeing the dropoff. And if the second generation is loosening strings or leaving, that doesn't bode well for a strong third generation. http://westernconservatory.com/store/free They really call their ministry the Western Conservatory of the Arts and Sciences?!!? Link to comment
Churchhoney March 6, 2016 Share March 6, 2016 They really call their ministry the Western Conservatory of the Arts and Sciences?!!? Don't know the man, but just looking at the stuff of his that I've seen on the internet, Geoff Botkin's ego appears to be approximatley the size of one of the larger galaxies. 4 Link to comment
Jynnan tonnix March 6, 2016 Share March 6, 2016 Ah, so we are talking a drop off through attrition - the younger generations in any give family being more prone to venture from beneath the umbrella. But presumably within the families who somehow manage to keep a firm enough grip on their offspring, they will likely toe the party line, and we can only hope that some of their progeny manage to wake up and smell the coffee. Or the garbage. Gotcha...I was misunderstanding a bit. But I suppose it's all part of the same concept. Link to comment
Churchhoney March 6, 2016 Share March 6, 2016 (edited) Ah, so we are talking a drop off through attrition - the younger generations in any give family being more prone to venture from beneath the umbrella. But presumably within the families who somehow manage to keep a firm enough grip on their offspring, they will likely toe the party line, and we can only hope that some of their progeny manage to wake up and smell the coffee. Or the garbage. Gotcha...I was misunderstanding a bit. But I suppose it's all part of the same concept. Well, attrition as in leaving, but also, according to the Botkin stuff, from young people staying in in name but not following the principles with nearly the fervor of their parents. And I'm pretty sure that lack of fervor refers to everything, including a lack of mad devotion to producing millions of children. The Botkin stuff doesn't really explicitly address children actually leaving, as I recall. It chiefly addresses children not living up fully to the ideas that they were taught. And one of those ideas is clearly -- Have a whole bunch of kids and bring them up entirely within our group. Edited March 6, 2016 by Churchhoney 1 Link to comment
GeeGolly March 6, 2016 Share March 6, 2016 Huh, I tried to go back to the Western Conservatory of the Arts and Sciences page, but the link no longer works. Uh, oh, they're onto me. ;) 1 Link to comment
NewDigs March 7, 2016 Share March 7, 2016 Huh, I tried to go back to the Western Conservatory of the Arts and Sciences page, but the link no longer works. Uh, oh, they're onto me. ;) This might work.I don't know if I have it in me to dig into that steaming pile tonight. Looks almost too freaky for snark. Almost. 2 Link to comment
satrunrose March 7, 2016 Share March 7, 2016 I wonder how much of the second generation attrition comes down to economics. A lot of these families can't support their 12 - 19 kids with their "home-based business" now - The Bates couldn't (crap house, loans from Lawson and ER for healthcare, that we know about); the J-Rods certainly can't. Add a second generation of wives who aren't allowed to contribute financially and a heap of babies and there's no way even the Boob's car and real-estate empire can support them all. I suppose the sons can start their own home-based businesses, but how many towing businesses and used car lots can one small town support - not to mention the complication that the Quiverfulls actively discourage their kids from college or university education. How on earth is JD etc. supposed to afford 19? 7 Link to comment
Sew Sumi March 7, 2016 Share March 7, 2016 (edited) Don't know the man, but just looking at the stuff of his that I've seen on the internet, Geoff Botkin's ego appears to be approximatley the size of one of the larger galaxies.And his two 30-something daughters (one might still be 29; I've lost track over the years) are writing books, blogging, and were featured in the wretched film, Return of the Daughters, which lauded the SAHD. Doug Phillips' sexual abuse victim, Lourdes Torres, is also featured. I think her case is back in court sometime this month.eta: I can't recall if Return...was a Botkin or Phillips production (leaning Botkin, as one of the sons fancies himself a filmmaker, and is older than the Phillips boy who claims the same credentials). At any rate, the tie here is that Geoff and Dougie were besties for many years before the Botkins bolted to TN. Edited March 7, 2016 by Sew Sumi 1 Link to comment
Aja March 7, 2016 Share March 7, 2016 (edited) I'm a little more than halfway through I Fired God, the book several posters here have recommended, and I strongly second the recommendation for anyone struggling to understand these people, and particularly Anna. It is downright horrifying and casts disturbingly bright light on the whole "no big deal, it happens in a lot of families." At the time, I remember a lot of us thinking (and posting) "man, what kind of f'ed up families do you know?" Well, as it turns out...Quiverfull families. It will also totally extinguish any faint ember of hope you may have had that Anna will get herself out of this mess. She won't. At least not this time. ETA: Some of our speculation has been eerily accurate. Like gee, it seems like they want seven year-olds to feel like irredeemable sinners. Yes they do. Gee, it seems like this cult attracts sociopathic and narcissistic men. Yes it does. Gee, it seems a little weird that they're so obsessed with modesty and purity and yet dry hump each other in front of their kids. This, too, is a Quiverfull "thing". And the author does a disturbingly good job of explaining where it all comes from. Edited March 7, 2016 by Aja 7 Link to comment
satrunrose March 8, 2016 Share March 8, 2016 Wishing a heathen, liberated, empowered International Woman's Day to all the Duggar girls and women. 15 Link to comment
GeeGolly March 10, 2016 Share March 10, 2016 Wishing a heathen, liberated, empowered International Woman's Day to all the Duggar girls and women. And they thank you from the bottom of their uteruses. (or uteri) 6 Link to comment
BrianJ62 March 12, 2016 Share March 12, 2016 (edited) I wonder what type of bra(s) the Duggar women wear? Do they have hand me down bra's? Edited March 12, 2016 by BrianJ62 Link to comment
Barb23 March 12, 2016 Share March 12, 2016 I wonder what type of bra(s) the Duggar women wear? Do they have hand me down bra's? Wal-Mart specials? 2 Link to comment
BitterApple March 12, 2016 Share March 12, 2016 I wonder what type of bra(s) the Duggar women wear? Do they have hand me down bra's? Don't ask me how I know this, but I believe they wear sports bras, and yes, they do share them. 1 Link to comment
allonsyalice March 12, 2016 Share March 12, 2016 Don't ask me how I know this, but I believe they wear sports bras, and yes, they do share them. Yikes. 2 Link to comment
kokapetl March 12, 2016 Share March 12, 2016 Jill's are sagging to a level even Michelle haven't sunk to 2 Link to comment
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