The Duggars and Their World: Fashion, Food, Finance, Schoolin’ and Child Rearin'

[Barb23]

6 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

3 hours ago, OpieTaylor said:

Can anyone read anything on the diplomas besides Duggar Academy and their names?

 

3 hours ago, OpieTaylor said:

Can anyone read anything on the diplomas besides Duggar Academy and their names?

In the Duggar world, that's the 2 most important things.

[FakeJoshDuggar]

So this weekend I took a road trip and by hour three I was sick to death of music on the radio. I was scanning stations and I came upon a conservative Christian station discussing home schooling;  and since I'm a glutton for punishment, I had to listen. These are sentences that were seemingly yelled into a microphone:

• It doesn't matter if you didn't graduate high school, the Lord will provide a way for you to teach your children at home.
• Sending your children to public schools is the same as sending them to their death.
• Public schools are "institutions of death."
• Public schools will teach your children science.
• All children need to be taken away from their peers and put into a one on one relationship with their parents (Steve Maxwell, is that you?)  
• You don't love your child if you send him/her to public school.
• "Real" parents don't send their children away to be taught.
• All of the presidents on Mt. Rushmore were homeschooled. Thus, Mt. Rushmore should be renamed Mt. Homeschool.
• Public school is a "new" concept that's only been around since the 1800's. 

[Vaysh]

Quote

Public school is a "new" concept that's only been around since the 1800's. 

The Ancient Greeks may have some issue with this statement.

[Rabbittron]

I thought that the picture was taken at the city dump.

[RazzleberryPie]

15 minutes ago, Vaysh said:

The Ancient Greeks may have some issue with this statement.

Didn't Jesus go to learn at the temple?

[TaxNerd]

2 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

I thought that the picture was taken at the city dump.

That's what I thought!  It looks like they are in their front yard facing the other direction and you can actually see the walls of the dump.  Not sure how close they are in real life, but that has to be the dump in the background.

[JoanArc]

4 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Didn't Jesus go to learn at the temple?

I doubt the Duggars care much for what Jewish intellectuals do to their kids.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Didn't Jesus go to learn at the temple?

Stop confusing me with facts.

1 hour ago, TaxNerd said:

That's what I thought!  It looks like they are in their front yard facing the other direction and you can actually see the walls of the dump.  Not sure how close they are in real life, but that has to be the dump in the background.

Sounds sensible. That makes it easy for the kids to toss those certificates right where they belong

[lookeyloo]

Every once in a while I catch a minute or two of that awful Dr Laura and she is a big home school proponent. Doesn't push the Jesus thing. Any kind of out of home schooling or child care is abandoning your children to strangers and very rarely if ever has a good outcome and if you weren't willing to stay home with them why did you have them. I know they would never listen to her but similar theme. 

[JoanArc]

Quote

Every once in a while I catch a minute or two of that awful Dr Laura and she is a big home school proponent

Her, um, homeschooled son posted rants online about how he is a completely psychopathic and amoral killer in the military. She should know when to shut up.

 

She also converted to Judaism, but then wasn't as into it once it started conflicting with her Saturday plans..

[RazzleberryPie]

2 hours ago, JoanArc said:

I doubt the Duggars care much for what Jewish intellectuals do to their kids.

Unless it is banning pork and rallying for Israel.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Dr. Laura has the luxury of working and broadcasting from home, so she could stay home with her kid. She used to give somewhat common sense advice and then turned into a shrieky shrew.

[lookeyloo]

21 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Dr. Laura has the luxury of working and broadcasting from home, so she could stay home with her kid. She used to give somewhat common sense advice and then turned into a shrieky shrew.

That is so true. I can't imagine anyone calling in for advice. She is definitely a mean shrew. Probably off topic. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

Announce the engagement and set the date already! You know the Holy Goalie has loins that are full of desires he needs to righteously fulfil.

[Natalie68]

44 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Dr. Laura has the luxury of working and broadcasting from home, so she could stay home with her kid. She used to give somewhat common sense advice and then turned into a shrieky shrew.

I was at Lady Foot Locker about 15 years ago picking out some workout pants and someone behind me was asking me questions about what I was purchasing.  I turned around to see a teeny tiny woman who looked and sounded familiar but couldn't place it.  It was her!  She was nice but I was never her audience.  I did think some of her ideas were wacky at the time but have no recollection what they were.

[JoanArc]

Quote

Announce the engagement and set the date already! You know the Holy Goalie has loins that are full of desires he needs to righteously fulfil.

October, so it can air during sweeps.

[Arwen Evenstar]

21 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

October, so it can air during sweeps.

Bet they will wed before then.  We just won't get to see the wedding until sweeps. Muffy was married off before her wedding aired.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar
Auto correct thinks it's smarter than me

[Sew Sumi]

The Spurge birth special aired 6 weeks after he was born. An early October wedding could definitely be done in time for November Sweeps. However, I'm sure they will milk the courtship out for this upcomzing season and air the wedding during February Sweeps.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Sew Sumi
New phone kinks

[maraleia]

So how do all these conservative religious freaks/homeschool proponents think the people who own these radio stations got where they are? They went to private and/or public school you dolts. Only a tiny fraction of people homeschool their kids.

BTW that's why you get satellite radio so you don''t have to listen to the majority conservative radio stations across the country LOL.

[Darknight]

On Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 9:50 PM, Sew Sumi said:

From the media thread: 

Are we to believe that they all earned GEDs? What ARE the requirements to graduate from "Duggar Academy?"
 

It's recommended not to use your last name on your homeschool diploma. 

[Sew Sumi]

Do you mean as the name of your homeschool or the student? I can see the former, but the latter would be hilarious.

[Vaysh]

Forgive an ignorant foreigner but would those of you who live in the US say that these proponents of homeschooling as the only acceptable way of educating kids actually mean it? As in everyone should homeschool and all public schools should be shut down because they are evil and wrong. Or is it just a schtick to gain an audience of not-too-deep-thinkers? Because if they actually mean it, how do they explain how this setup would work in reality?

I suppose if every family had at least one stay at home parent, pre-school and the first few grades could be managed (and lets just ignore those families who actually need two working parents or those with a single parent) but what happens when the kids starts in on the advanced math and the physics and chemistry part of their education? Should everyone just build a lab in their cupboard and hope there won't be any explosions? High school teachers spend years in college/uni learning about just a few subjects and then spend their entire careers focusing on those subjects, yet all parents, no matter their own education or intelligence level are somehow supposed to know ALL the things a whole set of teachers spent years learning? Doesn't the homeschooling-only crowd find this scenario just a tad unrealistic?

Edited June 27, 2016 by Vaysh

[sometimesy]

15 minutes ago, Vaysh said:

Forgive an ignorant foreigner but would those of you who live in the US say that these proponents of homeschooling as the only acceptable way of educating kids actually mean it? As in everyone should homeschool and all public schools should be shut down because they are evil and wrong. Or is it just a schtick to gain an audience of not-too-deep-thinkers? Because if they actually mean it, how do they explain how this setup would work in reality?

I suppose if every family had at least one stay at home parent, pre-school and the first few grades could be managed (and lets just ignore those families who actually need two working parents or those with a single parent) but what happens when the kids starts in on the advanced math and the physics and chemistry part of their education? Should everyone just build a lab in their cupboard and hope there won't be any explosions? High school teachers spend years in college/uni learning about just a few subjects and then spend their entire careers focusing on those subjects, yet all parents, no matter their own education or intelligence level are somehow supposed to know ALL the things a whole set of teachers spent years learning? Doesn't the homeschooling-only crowd find this scenario just a tad unrealistic?

Not American, but check out unschooling. It's unbelievable, but legal in at least some parts of the US. As for science, remember, they do not believe in anything but the bible. Dinosaurs and humans roamed the earth at the same time less than 10,000 years ago, according to them. Science schmience. 

Edited June 27, 2016 by sometimesy

[Arwen Evenstar]

Vaysh, you are using excellent logic and critical thinking skills to demonstrate how impractical this choice is. Some homeschool their kids because their child has learning challenges to give them extra attention or enroll them in a private school. Most homeschool advocates in the US do it for religious reasons ..they believe the government is evil and corrupt and don't put a high premium on education since they don't want their kids going off to university and getting "ideas" that would cause them to question their religious upbringing. 

I don't want to tar all homeschool families with the same brush, since posters like Marigold and 3girls have done a great job with their kids. I'm speaking mostly of the Duggars and their ilk who practice isolation.

i don't see the Duggars and their ilk with chemistry sets, or any other sophisticated learning tools.They don't like science.  In the US, each individual state sets the minimum requirements for home school. However, some homeschool parents allow their kids to attend art school or one or two public or private school classes for lab or studio access.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar

[MargeGunderson]

38 minutes ago, Vaysh said:

Forgive an ignorant foreigner but would those of you who live in the US say that these proponents of homeschooling as the only acceptable way of educating kids actually mean it? As in everyone should homeschool and all public schools should be shut down because they are evil and wrong. Or is it just a schtick to gain an audience of not-too-deep-thinkers? Because if they actually mean it, how do they explain how this setup would work in reality?

I suppose if every family had at least one stay at home parent, pre-school and the first few grades could be managed (and lets just ignore those families who actually need two working parents or those with a single parent) but what happens when the kids starts in on the advanced math and the physics and chemistry part of their education? Should everyone just build a lab in their cupboard and hope there won't be any explosions? High school teachers spend years in college/uni learning about just a few subjects and then spend their entire careers focusing on those subjects, yet all parents, no matter their own education or intelligence level are somehow supposed to know ALL the things a whole set of teachers spent years learning? Doesn't the homeschooling-only crowd find this scenario just a tad unrealistic?

Vaysh, specifically the mother would stay home to educate the children, because she has no business working outside the home after being married and having children. There is no need to worry about science (let alone advanced science), because everything can be explained by the Bible (hint - it's all because of God). Theories and experimentation are for heathens. The mother's educational level is totally irrelevant because any good woman is able to teach her children out of Christian homeschooling books and computer lessons. That's all there is to it! Plus, it would never do for children to be intellectually curious; that should be beaten out of them at a young age (not literally, unless you follow the Pearl's blanket training). Also, children should never be smarter or more educated than their parents because that is a sure way for them to develop independence and critical thinking skills. 

(I wish I were kidding.)

Edited June 27, 2016 by MargeGunderson

[Arwen Evenstar]

Marge, we all wish you were kidding.  The level of ignorance of the Duggars and their ilk just does not seem believable..it's like a bad train wreck; no matter how you try, you just can't look away.

[Sew Sumi]

UP showed Kelly Bates teaching Carlin chemistry. IIRC, Kelly met Gil because she was his chemistry tutor in college. 

With higher subjects, smart homeschoolers co-op. Hell, even the Seewalds used the co-op method. The Duggars only seem to use outside sources to check computer scores and give music lessons. But this only works if you have someone who is strong in each subject. For instance, the Seewalds do not have higher education; I wonder what part of the co-op they host? 

When I was in college, I was in a math class with a 16 year old homeschooler. Her father was an engineer, but he also brought home the bacon, and neither  her mother nor anyone else in the co-op had higher math skills, so off to the community college she went. And she was the best student in the class! I bet she got into a top school when she eventually went off to college. 

[RazzleberryPie]

Although the Duggars are idiots, not all homeschoolers are homefoolers. I personally do know quite a few who are college educated, and for religious or political reasons, usually both, don't want their kids to be exposed to 'bad things' - drugs, sexual activity, bad language, alcohol, etc. They see prevention programs - like telling kids how to avoid AIDS or not get pregnant - as bad influences. They think that if the kids are never exposed to these things, they won't try them. Usually doesn't work that way. I think the parents grossly underestimate a child's ability to actually think. 

Anyway.....most of the kids I know learn. A lot. Very detailed study plans, science, math, literature, government, foreign languages, etc. They usually involve co-ops where a mom or dad who has a degree in whatever teaches that subject for a few hours each week. They do a lot more indepth studies and hands on learning than public school. Now how these co-ops, which often have 30 or 40 kids, aren't considered non-public schools, I have no idea. 

The Duggars - they homefool. I don't buy the 'learning disability' excuse as much as that 1) Michelle is too lazy and uncoordinated to get 19 kids ready for school, and she needs some daytime sitters, so she said screw it, let's 'homeschool' and 2) most of them are below average intelligence. They're not book smart, vocational smart or people smart. They're gong to gravitate toward a culture that does not value education, because most of them are not very intelligent. 

[queenanne]

22 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Although the Duggars are idiots, not all homeschoolers are homefoolers. I personally do know quite a few who are college educated, and for religious or political reasons, usually both, don't want their kids to be exposed to 'bad things' - drugs, sexual activity, bad language, alcohol, etc. They see prevention programs - like telling kids how to avoid AIDS or not get pregnant - as bad influences. They think that if the kids are never exposed to these things, they won't try them. Usually doesn't work that way. I think the parents grossly underestimate a child's ability to actually think. 

Anyway.....most of the kids I know learn. A lot. Very detailed study plans, science, math, literature, government, foreign languages, etc. They usually involve co-ops where a mom or dad who has a degree in whatever teaches that subject for a few hours each week. They do a lot more indepth studies and hands on learning than public school. Now how these co-ops, which often have 30 or 40 kids, aren't considered non-public schools, I have no idea. 

The Duggars - they homefool. I don't buy the 'learning disability' excuse as much as that 1) Michelle is too lazy and uncoordinated to get 19 kids ready for school, and she needs some daytime sitters, so she said screw it, let's 'homeschool' and 2) most of them are below average intelligence. They're not book smart, vocational smart or people smart. They're gong to gravitate toward a culture that does not value education, because most of them are not very intelligent. 

Yeah, I figure the Duggs (grownup varietal) probably chose the curriculum they felt wouldn't dwarf their tiny minds.  

I've also been given to understand that the principle is if you butt up against something the parent isn't qualified to teach; to hire outside help who are expert in whatever state requirements the homeschool is required to hew to (which, yes, sometimes is even - science!).

Edited June 27, 2016 by queenanne

[Joe Jitsu913]

58 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Although the Duggars are idiots, not all homeschoolers are homefoolers. I personally do know quite a few who are college educated, and for religious or political reasons, usually both, don't want their kids to be exposed to 'bad things' - drugs, sexual activity, bad language, alcohol, etc. They see prevention programs - like telling kids how to avoid AIDS or not get pregnant - as bad influences. They think that if the kids are never exposed to these things, they won't try them. Usually doesn't work that way. I think the parents grossly underestimate a child's ability to actually think. 

Anyway.....most of the kids I know learn. A lot. Very detailed study plans, science, math, literature, government, foreign languages, etc. They usually involve co-ops where a mom or dad who has a degree in whatever teaches that subject for a few hours each week. They do a lot more indepth studies and hands on learning than public school. Now how these co-ops, which often have 30 or 40 kids, aren't considered non-public schools, I have no idea. 

The Duggars - they homefool. I don't buy the 'learning disability' excuse as much as that 1) Michelle is too lazy and uncoordinated to get 19 kids ready for school, and she needs some daytime sitters, so she said screw it, let's 'homeschool' and 2) most of them are below average intelligence. They're not book smart, vocational smart or people smart. They're gong to gravitate toward a culture that does not value education, because most of them are not very intelligent. 

My cousin and her husband were educated at very prestigious universities ( one of at Harvard) and they chose to homeschool their kids for political reasons.  They're both hippie, dippy types so they don't trust the evil Government to educate their kids so they homeschool. Their kids get a very a hands on education and are involved in community theatre etc. Their eldest child even takes college level courses (she's only 10!) and they do homes school Co ops. 

The Duggs are just lazy people who take advantage of already lax homeschooling requirements. 

[MargeGunderson]

Sorry if my snark got the best of me earlier. There a certainly other people who homeschool and do it well. The Duggars and their ilk give homeschooling a bad name.

[TomServo]

11 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

Didn't Jesus go to learn at the temple?

No, the temple was not where people went for 3R type learning.  When Jesus was 12, his parents accidentally left him in Jerusalem on their way home from a feast day.  They found him in the temple (would have been in one of the courtyards; not the temple itself).

9 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Her, um, homeschooled son posted rants online about how he is a completely psychopathic and amoral killer in the military. She should know when to shut up.

 

She also converted to Judaism, but then wasn't as into it once it started conflicting with her Saturday plans..

 

As far as I know, her son was not homeschooled.  He might have gone to a Jewish private school?  I listened to her show back in the 90's and she would talk about xyz thing her kid had dealt with at school.

[TomServo]

11 hours ago, Vaysh said:

The Ancient Greeks may have some issue with this statement.

The Ancient Greeks would not recognize American-style public schools.  Their schools were only for the boys, usually not for the poor (you had to pay), not for children of slaves, and they weeded students out along the way.  Most probably did not get the full Trivium and Quadrivium.

Edited June 28, 2016 by TomServo
Spell check

[RazzleberryPie]

You can't deny that most civilizations have had some kind of organized, collective facility for learning - whereas he Duggars etc try to make it seem as if the whole world exclusively homeschooled until the mid 1800s. The world is more than the United States.

[Churchhoney]

7 hours ago, Vaysh said:

Forgive an ignorant foreigner but would those of you who live in the US say that these proponents of homeschooling as the only acceptable way of educating kids actually mean it? As in everyone should homeschool and all public schools should be shut down because they are evil and wrong. Or is it just a schtick to gain an audience of not-too-deep-thinkers? Because if they actually mean it, how do they explain how this setup would work in reality?

 

The people who say this about homeschooling are primarily fundamentalist, Dominionist Christians who firmly believe -- or follow somebody who firmly believes -- that all public functions must be turned into Christian functions so that Christ can come and claim his kingdom. And the only way to turn schooling into true Christian schooling is for the relatively limited number of families who believe this to educate their kids themselves. They aspire to spread that belief among the whole population, but they're also quite happy right now to be the special small group that knows this truth and lives it. The home schooling not only wrests education away from the evil secularized government we now have but puts it firmly in the hands of the patriarch and his helpmeet of each clan, in line with another of these folks' principles.

These people are educating to create an army of sorts to take over the world for their version of Christ, not to produce kids who do any of the worthless secular things you mention, such as higher math. (not joking) IN addition, of course, Jim Bob and Michelle are not just zealots but ignorant idiots. So they take this version of homeschooling to stupid limits that even most of their co-religionists spurn.

People who think this way make up the largest segment of U.S. homeschoolers and absolutely are the loudest and most philosophically unified group of homeschoolers. But lots of other people homeschool, for lots of reasons, and they're mostly perfectly sane people who don't have any designs on destroying the public schools for everyone. People in cults like the Duggar cult do.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Happyfatchick]

9 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Bet they will wed before then.  We just won't get to see the wedding until sweeps. Muffy was married off before her wedding aired.

Jill was PREGNANT before her wedding aired.

[Arwen Evenstar]

30 minutes ago, Happyfatchick said:

Jill was PREGNANT before her wedding aired.

Correct. She announced her pregnancy about 6 weeks after her wedding.  We still hadn't seen them get engaged. 

[Sew Sumi]

Yup, I thought that's what I remembered. However, since we were just talking about weddings, I went the conservative route. :D

[FakeJoshDuggar]

There are different degrees of homeschooling. Obviously not all home schoolers are bad. The Duggars are part of a fundamentalist Christian group who teaches 8+3=God. And that's no education.

[Barb23]

It seems the Duggar Homefoolin wraps up or ends around the 8th grade or entering high school level.  Or that may just be when their maturity level stops.

[lulu69]

2 hours ago, Barb23 said:

It seems the Duggar Homefoolin wraps up or ends around the 8th grade or entering high school level.  Or that may just be when their maturity level stops.

Or...that's when the coursework typically gets difficult & the Duggars don't do difficult

[Sew Sumi]

Crap. We can't make fun of Clown College any longer. It appears that they got real accreditation in August 2014. 

http://www.chea.org/search/actionInst.asp?accredID=128;Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools

This same body also accredits Bob Jones, PCC, and Patrick Henry. 

Not as if any more Duggars will ever darken the doors of any of these schools, but there you go. I guess Ben's college (name I can't remember) is under a different accrediting body, since I didn't see it (I'd know it if I saw it) on the list. 

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

Crap. We can't make fun of Clown College any longer. It appears that they got real accreditation in August 2014. 

http://www.chea.org/search/actionInst.asp?accredID=128;Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools

This same body also accredits Bob Jones, PCC, and Patrick Henry. 

Not as if any more Duggars will ever darken the doors of any of these schools, but there you go. I guess Ben's college (name I can't remember) is under a different accrediting body, since I didn't see it (I'd know it if I saw it) on the list. 

Wow, the book "I Fired God" made Fundy higher ed sound like a joke. Under educated professors, unearned titles, lack of diverse classes, etc

Edited July 1, 2016 by GeeGolly

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Wow, the book "I Fired God" made Fundy higher ed sound like a joke. Under educated professors, unearned titles, lack of diverse classes, etc

... Well... if you have to have your own accrediting body because no one else will accredit you -- and that' s not because there are no other church-affiliated schools; there are many -- there are definitely some questionable things involved. That said, all of these colleges are fairly new by the academic-world's standards, and they've been trying to improve their general reputations and their ability to attract better faculty to attract more students. Ten years ago at Patrick Henry, for example, there was a revolt of faculty, with many leaving all at once, over what they complained were curriculum decisions wholly driven by an extremely restrictive ideology. Seems you hear less of that today.

[Sew Sumi]

I recall reading that Crown's last hurdle was the interracial dating ban. A student handbook c.2010 is floating around the interwebs, which describes all dating do's and dont's. That said, PCC is sooo racially divided. I never saw pictures of Jenni Hartono with white students; she was always with other Asian kids, and most of the time it was casual, not clubs. I was always sad to see the implied segregation. 

As for the accreditation, it is completely legit by national standards. However, Erin's degree won't stand muster, as she graduated in May 2014. Tori? Possibly a legit degree. 

Ben's college is also legit, but is it for only some degrees? With the Christian colleges, and if you are studying solely online, do standards differ? eta: Carlin Bates' Crown College in MN is also accredited. Maybe the same body as Ben's? I'm surprised to see Patrick Henry here. They seemed to be ahead of the curve with the debating. They also must have been accredited for a while, since one of the Harris twins got into Harvard Law (and I think is done now) after graduating from there. I do remember reading about that PH revolt. Good for them! 

When I went down this rabbit hole, I saw an interesting tab about diploma mills. I didn't have time to pursue it, but I think it was on the CHEA site. 

Edited July 2, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[Churchhoney]

Sidenote to the discussion of the TTH as a "sick system" going on over in the Other Duggar thread, there's a lengthy Homeschoolers Anonymous post (draft of lengthy footnoted paper, about ATI-type homeschooling as a kind of totalitarian system -- well, "totalist," in Robert Jay Lifton's term. Anyway, some interesting descriptions of such a system, vis a vis the goings on in The Academy of Duggardom.    https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/06/21/homeschooling-as-a-totalistic-tool/

The characteristics are these: Milieu Control, (2) Mystical Manipulation, (3) Demand for Purity, (4) Cult of Confession, (5) Sacred Science, (6), Loaded Language, (7) Doctrine Over Person, and (8) Dispensing of Existence.

And as you can tell by the mere names, how redolent they are of Duggar Daily Life. Here are two notable ones, but the discussions of all eight are worth a look, while meditating on the sad fate of Duggar children. (Descriptions of the eight characteristics are up fairly high in the paper, and bullet-pointed, so you don't have to wade through the whole thing to get to them.):

'(3) Demand for Purity

'The demand for purity is a demand to divide the world into what is “pure” and “impure” and avoid and reject everything considered the latter. Lifton describes totalist purity as “those ideas, feelings, and actions which are consistent with the totalist ideology and policy; anything else is apt to be relegated to the bad and the impure.” Dividing the world in this way creates both guilt and shame in individuals when they fail to perfectly avoid and reject what is considered “impure.” That guilt and shame then become tools of control that the totalist administration uses to manipulate people to do what the administration desires.[xviii]

'(4) Cult of Confession

'The cult of confession is connected to the demand for purity. The inevitable result of the demand for purity is that people will fail, hence the resulting feelings of guilt and shame. And when people do fail, they must confess those failings. A totalist administration will take advantage of this and manipulate people into all sorts of confessions both to enhance the feelings of guilt and shame as well as to gather information about individuals that can be used against them or to exploit them in the future. Lifton describes the cult of confession as confession that is “carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal, and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself. There is the demand that one confess to crimes one has not committed, to sinfulness that is artificially induced, in the name of a cure that is arbitrarily imposed.” In a totalist environment, “confession becomes a means of exploiting, rather than offering solace for, these vulnerabilities.” It also becomes “a means of maintaining an ethos of total exposure – a policy of making public (or at least known to the Organization) everything possible about the life experiences, thoughts, and passions of each individual, and especially those elements which might be regarded as derogatory.” This total exposure adds a dire sense of gravity to “the environment’s claim to total ownership of each individual self within it. Private ownership of the mind and its products – of imagination or of memory – becomes highly immoral.”[xix]'

Nice description of how these eight characteristics could work together to trap somebody in a cult homeschool environment:

'To help us better understanding how homeschooling can be a totalist tool, let us explore an example connection between homeschooling and certain instances of human trafficking. If a child grows up in a new religious movement that has effectively mastered thought reform techniques like milieu control via homeschooling, that child will have no understanding of how the outside world differs from his or her experience of the totalist world. If that child also grows up memorizing nothing but the loaded language of that new religious movement, then he or she will not even know how to develop a different language by which to question the movement — and if the child ever did learn to question, he or she would feel immense guilt and shame from thinking “impure” thoughts. And if the pressure from the child’s parent(s) to stop thinking such thoughts was not enough, the child’s very own peers would step up to the task, thinking that they were saving their friend from being not “truly human.”

'A nearly perfect system of control, then, would be in place. All it would take is for the leader of the movement to declare a new vision from the movement’s deity came to him or her — say, a vision of young girls being married at the age of 12 to much older men. This leader’s vision would likely be couched in religious justifications — that we are living in apocalyptic times and must fill the earth with as many followers of the movement’s deity as possible. And if young girls are not married early, they might be led astray by the world’s wickedness.'

[louannems]

Now we know why the Duggars, including the kids, speak only in Gothard-Speak.  They know no other language!

[Churchhoney]

3 minutes ago, louannems said:

Now we know why the Duggars, including the kids, speak only in Gothard-Speak.  They know no other language!

I suppose that unconsciously plays into the "schooling" and "hobby" decisions made by the Dugg 'rents, too. If they encouraged reading at all, for example, the doors would open to more words -- and new dangerous-to-Duggar-continued- concepts.

[Sew Sumi]

21 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Wow, the book "I Fired God" made Fundy higher ed sound like a joke. Under educated professors, unearned titles, lack of diverse classes, etc

Realize that these designations are fairly recent. For instance, Erin Bates' degree isn't really worth more than it was written on. Many instructors at the time didn't even have Masters degrees. Yes, I went there. Hopefully, now all of their instructors have at least that level of education. As a grad school dropout, I could have taught English  there, although I imagine my reading list would have been rejected. Especially my favorite Austen: Persuasion. ?

Edited July 2, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[NewDigs]

18 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I recall reading that Crown's last hurdle was the interracial dating ban. A student handbook c.2010 is floating around the interwebs, which describes all dating do's and dont's. That said, PCC is sooo racially divided. I never saw pictures of Jenni Hartono with white students; she was always with other Asian kids, and most of the time it was casual, not clubs. I was always sad to see the implied segregation. 

As for the accreditation, it is completely legit by national standards. However, Erin's degree won't stand muster, as she graduated in May 2014. Tori? Possibly a legit degree. 

Ben's college is also legit, but is it for only some degrees? With the Christian colleges, and if you are studying solely online, do standards differ? eta: Carlin Bates' Crown College in MN is also accredited. Maybe the same body as Ben's? I'm surprised to see Patrick Henry here. They seemed to be ahead of the curve with the debating. They also must have been accredited for a while, since one of the Harris twins got into Harvard Law (and I think is done now) after graduating from there. I do remember reading about that PH revolt. Good for them! 

When I went down this rabbit hole, I saw an interesting tab about diploma mills. I didn't have time to pursue it, but I think it was on the CHEA site. 

That's not just a rabbit hole, it's rabbit warren! With itty bitty print.

This page seems to have the most recent info about checking a school's accreditation.

 Apparently there are also "accreditation mills". 

If these people spent half the time actually learning it would probably take less time and energy than building these false fronts. But, then the purpose would usually be defeated.