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On 8/17/2019 at 3:50 PM, slf said:

Amy earned that trip to Europe with Aunt March in Little Women.

I agree.  Also, Amy burning Jo's writing was pretty bad, but I don't think it makes her completely unlikable for the rest of the book.

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2 hours ago, Billina said:

I agree.  Also, Amy burning Jo's writing was pretty bad, but I don't think it makes her completely unlikable for the rest of the book.

Burning Jo's manuscript was a shitty thing to do, but it is something a temperamental kid would do, so we can't hold it against Amy (heck, Jo didn't).

Edited by Wiendish Fitch
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2 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Burning Jo's manuscript was a shitty thing to do, but it is something a temperamental kid would do, so we can't hold it against Amy (heck, Jo didn't).

Plus she heartily regretted it. In fact, I think she and Jo were closer after that.

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And most adaptations kind of gloss over, or omit, that Jo knew the ice was thin and chose not to warn Amy in retaliation which is beyond awful. I hate that the argument always gets reduced to, "Amy burned her manuscript!" because while she does, yes, she's a young child and Jo did far worse. 

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On 7/11/2019 at 5:55 PM, Mabinogia said:

I am such an ebook reader that when my friend lent me a book I went and bought it on kindle so I could read it. 

Whenever I read a physical book, anytime there's a word I don't recognize, I press my fingers to the page and can't understand why I'm not getting the dictionary pop-up.

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I thought Sally J. Freedman was an annoying little brat, her mother was a hysteric and an idiot, and the both of them needed to be slapped.

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14 hours ago, Camille said:

Whenever I read a physical book, anytime there's a word I don't recognize, I press my fingers to the page and can't understand why I'm not getting the dictionary pop-up.

I've, unthinking, try to make the words and pictures bigger on physical paper books.

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23 hours ago, Camille said:

I thought Sally J. Freedman was an annoying little brat, her mother was a hysteric and an idiot, and the both of them needed to be slapped.

That used to be my favorite book as a kid and I haven't thought of it in years!  Off to the library to check it out and see if my opinion changes!

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42 minutes ago, LBS said:

That used to be my favorite book as a kid and I haven't thought of it in years!  Off to the library to check it out and see if my opinion changes!

That's still one of my comfort books. I even notice a lot more details as an adult.

Her mother *was* a nervous nellie, but WWII ended not too long ago and she lost relatives. Her son also had health issues which made him secretive. I don't think she was too bad except being afraid to try new things.

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RE: "Little Women"

I thought Marmee was overbearing and manipulative with her daughters.

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On 8/17/2019 at 6:50 PM, slf said:

Amy earned that trip to Europe with Aunt March in Little Women.

Yeah I never got the Amy hate that was certainly prevalent back when I was a kid and discovering Little Women for the first time.  Yes she got to marry the prize guy (not that there was a lot of competition) but only after Jo turned him down and all of them grew up a bit more and moved on with their lives.  Amy was a pretty normal kid really and turned out to be a nice woman.

On 8/20/2019 at 2:36 PM, Camille said:

I thought Sally J. Freedman was an annoying little brat, her mother was a hysteric and an idiot, and the both of them needed to be slapped.

The only Judy Blume books I liked were the Fudge books.  I couldn't stand her books aimed at tween girls - even when I was a tween girl.

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In retrospect, I find a lot of the YA books I read as a pre-teen or adolescent very preachy and much too directed at convincing girls that having sex one time would almost always result in pregnancy, saying absolutely nothing about the pros of using contraception, and implying to girls that even unplanned and unwanted pregnancies would ultimately lead them to end up in a marriage earlier than planned but a happy one. The two that come to mind are Too Bad About the Haines Girl and Mr. and Mrs. BoJo Jones. In the first one, a high school student gets pregnant, almost has an abortion (illegal at that time) but refuses because of the unsanitary conditions, and ultimately tells her parents that she's pregnant. They of course are completely supportive and understanding. In the second one, the girl gets pregnant and marries her BF, but their child dies when it is born prematurely. Everybody's parents then want them to separate and pursue their original plans of attending college, but they decide they really do love each other and end up in college housing for married students, poor but happy. 

And it's not that the books were completely unrealistic; there were arguments and hurt feelings, and concerns about money and crushed dreams. But I think about the people I knew who did get pregnant in high school and got married, and their reality was often quite different. There were parents who were horrified and threw their daughters out of the home, or forced them to go to homes for unwed mothers, or insisted on having a pro forma marriage with the father so the child wouldn't be illegitimate. There were parents who were convinced that the girl had gotten pregnant deliberately to trap their son, and harassed the girl. There were couples who got married because of an unplanned pregnancy and were divorced within a couple of years. I can think of exactly one girl from my high school whose path seemed to mirror what was in these books, and the last time I saw her she had two toddlers by age 20 and not the slightest expectation of ever having a paying job, when prior to the accidental pregnancy she'd been considered very bright and definitely planned on going to college. Who knows, maybe 5 years down the road she decided to get her GED or something and go to college, but I'll never forget the look on her face when I saw her last. She was looking at her two kids and she obviously loved them, but there was more than a hint of being resigned to a life quite different from what she'd envisioned just a few years prior to that. 

I know there are books now that give a more realistic and diverse view of sexuality in high school kids, the problems with marrying solely because of a pregnancy, emotionally abusive parents, and so forth; I also know that the books I read reflected some societal attitudes of that period. But I can't help feeling that with those books, and so many similarly themed books (don't go steady with someone because things will get too "serious;" don't be in a hurry to grow up because you should stay a child as long as possible, etc.), the intent was less to explore a character and more to be propaganda. 

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Those books also totally blamed the girl for getting pregnant. Ugh. The sperm didn't just magically get beamed into her vagina.

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Apparently very unpopular opinion -- I liked Leigh Bardugo's first Grisha trilogy but I have never been able to get into SIX OF CROWS (or subsequently, CROOKED KINGDOM). Looking on Goodreads, it's obvious that these books are sooooo beloved by so many, but... I just don't like it when all the main characters are cruel, murderous, mean, etc. 

Honestly, I do not get the love for Kaz Brekker AT ALL. He's a jerk who's mean to his supposed friends, kills without remorse, and is all angsty all the time over HIS problems, (while other people in the book have equally bad or worse pasts). I just want to kick him in the teeth, but apparently he is the new "ideal" book boyfriend. Gah!

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Putting aside the books rose-colored glasses view of slavery and Reconstruction days. . .

I don't hate Scarlett O'Hara.

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1 hour ago, Camille said:

Putting aside the books rose-colored glasses view of slavery and Reconstruction days. . .

I don't hate Scarlett O'Hara.

Neither do I. She was a product of her time and she did the best she could with the resources she had.

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2 hours ago, Camille said:

Putting aside the books rose-colored glasses view of slavery and Reconstruction days. . .

I don't hate Scarlett O'Hara.

I actually don't either.  I don't think she's a stellar human being, and she does do some supremely shitty things,  but damn if she isn't interesting!  I actually think she's one of the more fascinating characters in American Literature.

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3 hours ago, Camille said:

Putting aside the books rose-colored glasses view of slavery and Reconstruction days. . .

I don't hate Scarlett O'Hara.

I always thought that Margaret Mitchell was making fun of the whole "Lost Cause" mythos with the book.  Scarlet has no time for any of that, she was too practical and had too many mouths to feed.  Scarlet had no idea that her husband and Ashley were involved with the Klan until it was too late.  I really felt like Frank's death while necessary to the plot was also a way for Margaret to poke fun at the Klan and the backwards thinking of its members.  

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4 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

I actually don't either.  I don't think she's a stellar human being, and she does do some supremely shirtty things,  but damn if she isn't interesting!  I actually think she's one of the more fascinating characters in American Literature.

I'm pretty sure I would hate her if she were real and I had to interact with her on a daily basis, but yes, as a character, she if fascinating. For me she is possibly the greatest example of "you don't need to like the character to love the character". I loved reading her story though if she were a real person I don't think I'd like her at all. Maybe as a casual "see her once a year at the ball" kind of acquaintance, but if I had to deal with her to get my work done or something I might kill her. (metaphorically, I wouldn't do well in jail so I'm not killing anyone literally.) 

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