S02.E06: Season 2, Episode 6

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Trapped inside Golden Square, Charlotte’s future looks bleak – unless she can convince Lydia of her loyalty. Meanwhile Lucy makes a terrible mistake and Margaret must risk everything to save both her daughters.

Original airdate: 8/8/18

[Avaleigh]

Is there any way Margaret can be saved?

I want to shake Lucy for being so blind about Lord Fallon. That being said, I feel like Fallon's days are numbered anyway so I'm not too worried about her.

Poor Amelia. I'm guessing that she'll pull through since she didn't die in this episode.

For the posters who said last episode that Emily was lying about being pregnant, good call. I think she's trying to get pregnant and that's why she was going out of her way to try in this episode.

The marquess really is mad, bad, and dangerous to know. What a sicko. Very disturbing and chilling that he feels the need to "break in" a virgin every few months. I wonder how Lady Fitz hid her pregnancy from her family. It was a little harder for an unmarried woman to hide one, but it did happen from time to time. It was easier once empire waistlines became fashionable.

It was nice to sort of see Charlotte find freedom in this episode.

Only two episode left! I wish that the seasons were longer.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I spent most of this episode yelling, "Molly, girl, you in danger!" to various characters. What are the chances that Isabella's super creepy brother walks in on her making out with Charlotte and then he starts getting violent and they end up killing him? Margaret went out of her way to make sure that Charlotte didn't kill Lydia so the irony of her accidentally killing Blayne would be, I don't know, delicious? Sad? Especially considering that she just confessed to George Howard's murder which was essentially the same thing (Lucy defending herself).

This is one of those occasions when I am not happy that I called the twist. Blayne's Flowers in the Attic obsession with his sister is SO GROSS. I'm guessing that the reason no one but Lydia knows about their child is because Isabella was ensconced in a room at Lydia's house for the duration of her pregnancy (probably with the usual cover story of being off traveling). Since the kid is in boarding school, she isn't too old. I want more details though. Did someone else adopt her (and maybe that's how Lydia knows because she arranged finding a family for the kid)? Or maybe Isabella arranged for Lydia to be the middleman paying for the kid's school fees so that nothing can be traced back to Isabella?

Oh, Lucy, you are SO DUMB. This is definitely one of those situations where a naive girl who has never been in a relationship before falls for the first guy and is totally blinded by her infatuation with him. Not only did she not believe her mother's accusations and let Fallon throw her out, but she ran right back to him the second everyone's backs were turned.

Thank goodness Emily finally figured out that Cherry was spying for Lydia, but knowing that, how can she trust Cherry to be a reliable double agent? How can she believe anything that Cherry says or does now?

Poor Amelia. She's always getting screwed by other people's choices.

I'm glad that when Hunt said she was blameless, Margaret pointed out that all of the girls were blameless regardless of the status of their vaginas.

[UNOSEZ]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

Oh, Lucy, you are SO DUMB. This is definitely one of those situations where a naive girl who has never been in a relationship before falls for the first guy and is totally blinded by her infatuation with him. Not only did she not believe her mother's accusations and let Fallon throw her out, but she ran right back to him the second everyone's backs were turned.

Agree.. But I will add its also a chance ( at least in her eyes)  to outshine Charlotte.. She wanted fallow to pay more than Charlotte got.. And Fallon makes her feel like he'd choose her over Charlotte ( who she feels is everyone else's fav)  so when everyone is telling her that Fallon us bad and not good and is using her.. She's hearing that she's not good enough to outshine Charlotte and there is an extenuating circumstance to her "win over Charlotte "....  

Stupid and naive.. Sure... But also kinda standard little sibling behavior... Just amped up to 1000

[HeySandyStrange]

Wow, lots of crazy shit went down this episode. I also figured the twist of of Blayne raping/impregnating his sister coming, but it still was hard to stomach. I'm sure Lady Fitz is scared that, amount other things, her brother would likely try to rape their daughter if he knew. He seriously needs to gtfo. 

I hope Margaret isn't killed off, but I have a bad feeling about this turn of events. I'm not sure if, or how, she could possibly get out of this one. I'm glad she made amends with Charlotte, though.

Lady Fitz and Charlotte, huh...they would be an intriguing, and they certainly have chemistry.

Lucy is still damn naive and not bright, but she acting like a typical jealous, petty teenager. 

Poor Amelia. I was afraid Margaret was going to finish the job and I'd have to hate her. The moment between Scanwell and Margaret was touching.

[dmc]

I called Lady Fitz's secret

Lucy doesn't act all there sometimes.  I fear sometimes she is a psychotic.

What the name of the guy that is gay that almost got stabbed?  I love him, he better not leave.

Amelia is probably okay.

Someone told me the actress that played Margaret is now on the Walking Dead...I hope that doesn't mean they are killing her off

[Avaleigh]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

This is one of those occasions when I am not happy that I called the twist. Blayne's Flowers in the Attic obsession with his sister is SO GROSS. I'm guessing that the reason no one but Lydia knows about their child is because Isabella was ensconced in a room at Lydia's house for the duration of her pregnancy (probably with the usual cover story of being off traveling). Since the kid is in boarding school, she isn't too old. I want more details though. Did someone else adopt her (and maybe that's how Lydia knows because she arranged finding a family for the kid)? Or maybe Isabella arranged for Lydia to be the middleman paying for the kid's school fees so that nothing can be traced back to Isabella?

The confession raised more questions for me than answers. Lady Fitz says that she was very young when her brother raped her. Let's say she was 16. Her daughter is young enough to still be in school so I'm thinking 15 at the oldest. Is Lady Fitz really only supposed to be about 30 years old or so?

How would she even have met Lydia? This is a sheltered daughter of a marquess. Why didn't she actually go abroad they way most women of her class would have done? Why stay in London where anyone could find out? Also, does Lydia know the details of this being an incest baby or is she under the impression that Lady Fitz just broke the rules with some random guy?

Was the marquess sent away for "years" by his parents? Where do they factor into this story? Were they not around? Why did he have to go away for years? By the way he said it I'm guessing it wasn't his choice. If the parents knew and were trying to get him away from his sister why didn't they give her money? If she'd married she could have been given a large dowry. 

I understand that Lady Fitz is permanently traumatized but I feel like she'd prefer to get married rather than having to live under her rapist's control day after day, year after year. She has to beg him for money. She has to eat with him daily. She has to hear about him raping other girls. He gets to walk in on her while she's getting dressed. How is any of this preferable to starting a life of her own?

When Lydia talks about how she thanks the man who taught her that love and cruelty go hand in hand--was she talking about her father? It's still unclear to me if she too is a victim of incest. I wonder if she was inclined in the beginning to be more sympathetic to Lady Fitz because of this. After all, it seems that she never bothered Lady Fitz until she got thrown in jail. She reached out to her with the blackmail once she felt she had no other options as opposed to milking her from day one. 

[Pachengala]

1 hour ago, dmc said:

What the name of the guy that is gay that almost got stabbed?  I love him, he better not leave.

His name is Rasselas, but he’ll always be Pyp to me [/GOT]

i loved this episode; it’s probably my favorite of the season so far. Margaret is such a good character. I wonder, if they kill her off, how the show will function without her; she’s the yin to Quigley’s yang and that moral balance is the heart of the show.

[dmc]

12 minutes ago, Pachengala said:

His name is Rasselas, but he’ll always be Pyp to me [/GOT]

i loved this episode; it’s probably my favorite of the season so far. Margaret is such a good character. I wonder, if they kill her off, how the show will function without her; she’s the yin to Quigley’s yang and that moral balance is the heart of the show.

Thanks! Agreed she's great on this show. 

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, Pachengala said:

His name is Rasselas, but he’ll always be Pyp to me [/GOT]

i loved this episode; it’s probably my favorite of the season so far. Margaret is such a good character. I wonder, if they kill her off, how the show will function without her; she’s the yin to Quigley’s yang and that moral balance is the heart of the show.

My guess is that Charlotte is going to step into her mother's role with running Greek Street. She got her lessons on how to be a bawd from Quigley and will take over as nemisis to Quigley for the new season. Next season can be about whether or not Charlotte is going to be more of a Wells woman or a Quigley woman. I thought it was notable that Quigley thinks that she's left a mark on Charlotte and that Charlotte is going to take some of those lessons to heart. 

I also won't be surprised if the new girl at Quigley's ends up being a long term thorn in Charlotte's side. 

I'm not sure how Lucy fits into next season. I'm still mad at her for not believing her mother. She doesn't pause for a moment and consider that it doesn't make sense for her mother to make something like that up. 

[Elivesta29]

Lucy not being "all there" might not too far off. Last season she was traumatized and it manifested in a lot of rage. That wouldn't just go away, but it seems she's channeled it in a different way now. I am not convinced she doesn't believe Margaret deep down, which is in some ways more concerning. There's still two episodes left though, so maybe she'll come to her senses. 

 

My guess is the Marquess and Lady Fitz's parents were alive when they were teens and they sent her away to Lydia's(yeah a pretty strange choice but maybe daddy was a patron there) the rapist of Blayne was probably away travelling or at school. The parents must've died years ago now though or else I think Isabella may have been married, I can't see her brother arranging a marriage for her because then he'd lose his control over her. 

 

I didn't see Margaret confessing to the murder, but it really does make sense she'd do it. Fallon didn't see that sort of self sacrifice coming. It's an honest conclusion for Margaret, along with her making amends with Charlotte and regretting her past actions. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Elivesta29

[nodorothyparker]

If this show titled episodes, this one would have been called The One Where Every Single One of the Wells Women Go Off Half Cocked and Do Something Stupid.

Growing up in the shadow of the celebrated Charlotte Wells, it's not really that much of a surprise that Lucy would want to be parading about the big fish she thinks she's caught, but she's being ridiculously careless.  And smug.  And putting aside the idiocy of Margaret marching around accusing to his face a very well connected man she believes has killed at least one person and stabbed another, does Lucy not know her mother at all?  Does she really believe Margaret would make that kind of accusation against someone who could buy and sell them all twenty times over without some kind of basis?  To be fair, Margaret is a fairly reactionary kind of character who does have a habit of immediately jumping in with both feet without considering the long game, but she wasn't willing to even give it a night and see whether Amelia survived first before rushing off to confess?  Lucy was back in the house at the time and out of immediate danger.  That might have been the time to at least discuss the whole thing with her.  But now Lucy's slipped back out to go back to Fallon and she's still in danger and won't even have Margaret to look out for her next time. 

I'm liking a lot of what they're doing with Charlotte and Quigley in reminding just ugly the ugly side of this business is and where the line for complicity is, but Charlotte's been ridiculously careless all along about not even trying to be stealthy and practically shouting her super secret plotting to any random person within earshot.  And choking Quigley in the drawing room in front of witnesses who work for her, really?  Continuing the thread they started a couple of episodes ago that maybe Quigley's father molested her and started her down this path, we learn that she believes whatever happened there is what made her strong.  It actually explains a lot about her and how she can be so cavalier in auctioning off innocence, whether it be Margaret's or this girl's.

I think we all knew the big Lannister style reveal with Isabella and the Marquess was coming, but it was effectively done just the same and actually makes sense to me if I can fanwank the timeline a bit.  Nobility typically didn't marry as young as people think, so Isabella saying it happened when she was young could be anything from her later teens to even early twenties.  I think we're supposed to assume the Marquess is a little older than she is, which would have put him at about the age he would have been finishing university and likely before he would have gone off a European tour as young noblemen typically did.  He even questions Isabella here if whatever Quigley is blackmailing her for happened "when I went away."  Since young noblewomen generally didn't dress or bathe themselves, it's likely a servant would have noticed a pregnancy at some point and from there her parents probably would have found out and wanted to keep it quiet to avoid a family scandal or ruin any future marriage prospects.  Where Quigley comes in gets a little thornier to suss out, but we can probably guess that at some point she must have been paid well to become the mother/guardian of record in arranging for the baby to be raised and then sent to a proper boarding school so she couldn't be traced back to the family.  

Since we get confirmation that the Marquess doesn't know about any of this, we can deduce that this all happened before their father died and left him Isabella's financial guardian.  As such, he would have had veto power on any marriage she tried to make to get out of that house, which he basically points out this episode when she threatens, probably not for the first time, to leave him.  This also isn't the first time he's mentioned her "incapacity" and how it grows worse every day, which is nice way of saying that people think she's crazy.  Which would also likely scare off any would-be suitors, fortune or no.  He can't have her, but he can keep anyone else from having her either.

[abbyzenn]

I wasn't expecting Margaret to confess which was stupid to do especially if Amelia lives.  Margaret thinks with her heart rather being logical.   She isn't cold and calculating like Quigley.

I think Charlotte trying to choke Quigley was just a gut reaction.  She's much like her mother.

I can't stand Lucy and I don't really care what happens to her.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 minutes ago, abbyzenn said:

can't stand Lucy and I don't really care what happens to her.

The main reason I care about what happens to Lucy is because it will affect Charlotte, Margaret (if she survives), North, Nancy, and the rest of their little family. I don’t want them blaming themselves and wallowing in guilt because of her stupid choices. 

[kieyra]

Is there anything official about a third season?

I’m not sure what to think without this info, but right now I don’t think Margaret is really going to hang.

On the other hand, how many more seasons can we watch Lydia and Margaret go at each other? And the constant threat of bringing this or that murder or rape/kidnapping to the law has no fangs, not when we know the men in power are untouchable, and Quigley is untouchable because of her association with them. So “getting the law involved”, trying to find evidence or witnesses for the rapes/murders ... it all seems pointless.

(Of course, someone like Margaret confesses and it’s instant death sentence, apparently.)

[Avaleigh]

3 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I think we all knew the big Lannister style reveal with Isabella and the Marquess was coming, but it was effectively done just the same and actually makes sense to me if I can fanwank the timeline a bit.  Nobility typically didn't marry as young as people think, so Isabella saying it happened when she was young could be anything from her later teens to even early twenties.  I think we're supposed to assume the Marquess is a little older than she is, which would have put him at about the age he would have been finishing university and likely before he would have gone off a European tour as young noblemen typically did.  He even questions Isabella here if whatever Quigley is blackmailing her for happened "when I went away."  Since young noblewomen generally didn't dress or bathe themselves, it's likely a servant would have noticed a pregnancy at some point and from there her parents probably would have found out and wanted to keep it quiet to avoid a family scandal or ruin any future marriage prospects.  Where Quigley comes in gets a little thornier to suss out, but we can probably guess that at some point she must have been paid well to become the mother/guardian of record in arranging for the baby to be raised and then sent to a proper boarding school so she couldn't be traced back to the family.  

Since we get confirmation that the Marquess doesn't know about any of this, we can deduce that this all happened before their father died and left him Isabella's financial guardian.  As such, he would have had veto power on any marriage she tried to make to get out of that house, which he basically points out this episode when she threatens, probably not for the first time, to leave him.  This also isn't the first time he's mentioned her "incapacity" and how it grows worse every day, which is nice way of saying that people think she's crazy.  Which would also likely scare off any would-be suitors, fortune or no.  He can't have her, but he can keep anyone else from having her either.

It seems like 18th century women still married pretty young by modern standards. I'm thinking of Georgiana the Duchess of Devonshire and her aristocratic contemporaries like the Countess of Bessborough, the Countess Spencer, the Duchess of Portland, Viscountess Melbourne, the Countess of Jersey, the Duchess of Gordon, Lady Elizabeth Foster, Queen Charlotte, etc. All of these women married in their teens and it wasn't considered to be unusual. When Lady Fitz says that she was very young, I think it's likely that she was in her early to mid teens.

I agree with you though that the Marquess was probably away touring the Continent. (Raping more girls no doubt.)

One of the creepiest things we learned about her brother in this episode is that his preference for virgins is all about trying to recreate that first attack on his sister. Jaime Lannister comes off like Prince Charming in comparison to this guy.

The saddest thing is that Lady Fitz clearly didn't think it would help to tell anyone what happened. She's the only one who has to suffer consequences for what her brother did to her. He just gets to enjoy life, has the respect of his peers, enjoys money, power and control and can basically do whatever he wants. I wonder why he hasn't brought in a wife to torment?

This makes his comment about his sister being "lucky in love" even worse than I originally thought. I stupidly gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought for sure that he wouldn't be twisted enough to be referring to himself but apparently he thinks that his feelings for her can somehow indicate love. Gross isn't a strong enough word for it.

It wouldn't have been impossible for her to marry without a dowry or her brother's support but based on her conversation with Charlotte, it seems like she's felt that marriage hasn't been in the cards for her ever since the rape and pregnancy. Unfortunately, it seems like she can't get past the idea that she's ruined. Very sad that she's lived with this for so long and has been unable to confide in anyone who will be sympathetic and understanding. No wonder she values Charlotte's friendship. This is probably the first person she's been able to truly be honest with without fear of being harshly judged.

It also makes her desire to do what she can to help Charlotte save that girl all the more understandable.

[chaifan]

Because this show is only 8 episodes a year, I suppose it would be possible for the actress who plays Margaret to be on this show and another (if the rumors re: Walking Dead are true).  But let's assume Margaret is hung at the end of this season.  I'm actually ok with that.  I think the show needs a little of a reset - too many big bads running around, and it takes the focus off the fun of the show - Quigley vs. Wells.  So, have the Marquess "fall" down a flight of stairs, Lady Fitz gets her fortune.  Kill off Lord Fallon, return Lucy to Greek Street.  Put Charlotte in charge, and continue the rivalry with Lydia.  Keep Emily and her house of exotics around, just 'cause they're fun.  Let Amelia pull through and marry Hunt, or not, either is ok with me. 

[ferjy]

Well we all saw that coming about Lady Fitz's child being the brother's. I was hoping they'd go for something more interesting instead of that overused plot device.

And honestly, when oh WHEN will they learn not to spew sensitive material in earshot of everyone and anyone?!

[ferjy]

13 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Agree.. But I will add its also a chance ( at least in her eyes)  to outshine Charlotte.. She wanted fallow to pay more than Charlotte got.. And Fallon makes her feel like he'd choose her over Charlotte ( who she feels is everyone else's fav)  so when everyone is telling her that Fallon us bad and not good and is using her.. She's hearing that she's not good enough to outshine Charlotte and there is an extenuating circumstance to her "win over Charlotte "....  

Stupid and naive.. Sure... But also kinda standard little sibling behavior... Just amped up to 1000

I agree about Lucy. I don't understand people saying they hate her (unless they're young themselves maybe). Not to condone the path she's choosing but after being traumatized last season then trying to fit in but coming nowhere near (in her eyes) to Charlotte's standards, she's grasping at the only thing that is making her feel competent. Fallon, unfortunately. It will be a learning experience, let's just hope she survives it!

Edited August 9, 2018 by ferjy

[rubinia]

10 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I understand that Lady Fitz is permanently traumatized but I feel like she'd prefer to get married rather than having to live under her rapist's control day after day, year after year. She has to beg him for money. She has to eat with him daily. She has to hear about him raping other girls. He gets to walk in on her while she's getting dressed. How is any of this preferable to starting a life of her own?

Maybe the brother wouldn’t allow her to marry and he prefers to have total control over her. I’d guess (unless I’m just forgetting something) that he went off to school or the Grand Tour or something of the like (those years he was away). I’m mostly confused by the timeline and Lady Fitz’s age. Liv Tyler looks great but she doesn’t look early 30s.

 

Lydia might have some connection to the boarding school, which is how she discovered the secret about the child?

Edited August 9, 2018 by rubinia

[tennisgurl]

I figured what the backstory with Lady Fitzs was, but it was still so very gross and awful. Her brother is one sick puppy. There is just a whole list of people on this show that need to die, very painfully, and he is on top of that list. She and Charlotte have a ton of chemistry. 

I didnt expect Margaret to confess, but I guess I should have seen it coming. She might not make the best choices for her daughters, what with getting them into a life of prostitution that neither of them are very found of, but she really does love her kids more than anything. The last scene with her and Scanwell was really sweet between them. I dont think Margaret will really die though. 

Charles just wants everyone to get along damn it! If his mom and his girlfriend would stop trying to kill each other, his life would be so much less complicated. 

[ferjy]

7 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I figured what the backstory with Lady Fitzs was, but it was still so very gross and awful. Her brother is one sick puppy. There is just a whole list of people on this show that need to die, very painfully, and he is on top of that list. She and Charlotte have a ton of chemistry. 

I didnt expect Margaret to confess, but I guess I should have seen it coming. She might not make the best choices for her daughters, what with getting them into a life of prostitution that neither of them are very found of, but she really does love her kids more than anything. The last scene with her and Scanwell was really sweet between them. I dont think Margaret will really die though. 

Charles just wants everyone to get along damn it! If his mom and his girlfriend would stop trying to kill each other, his life would be so much less complicated. 

So true. Seeing him admit to it, so proudly no less, was sickening. 

[ElizaD]

What a shame I missed season 1! This show is full of interesting female characters and relationships.

I was never such a big Lady Sybil fan on Downton Abbey since I felt that she was pretty much 100% sweet and perfect in the most nonchallenging go girl! ways (I loved Lady Mary despite all her flaws and even though Lady Edith often made me rage she was still interesting, so the older sisters got the complexity and drive that was missing from Sybil). But JBF is getting so much more to do on Harlots; Charlotte is basically a good person, but she screws up, she doesn't always get it right, and yet JBF gives her so much heart and vulnerability that I'm far more emotionally invested in Charlotte than I ever was in Sybil.

I think that Margaret is being set up to be the big death that shakes things up, along with the likely deaths/exiles of Fallon and the marquess that will end the creepy club plot. That would clear the way for next season to be about Charlotte vs. Lydia. I'm far more interested in the everyday, practical matters of running a brothel and getting customers than the depressing rich murder dudes that the prostitutes can't ever really expose as the scumbags they are. In season 3, Lydia could be out to prove that her way is not just the best but the only way to be a bawd, while Charlotte has to grow up and destroy Lydia both practically, by becoming a success as she takes Margaret's place as a bawd, and philosophically, by trying to show that she can run her business without using and abusing girls the way Lydia does.

I like the cast of the house of exotics, but maybe Emily is doomed since there was a hint that Harriet could take over as the bawd.

Logically, I can understand how Lucy has ended up acting as she does in this episode. But it's still very, very frustrating to watch.

[nodorothyparker]

9 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

It seems like 18th century women still married pretty young by modern standards. I'm thinking of Georgiana the Duchess of Devonshire and her aristocratic contemporaries like the Countess of Bessborough, the Countess Spencer, the Duchess of Portland, Viscountess Melbourne, the Countess of Jersey, the Duchess of Gordon, Lady Elizabeth Foster, Queen Charlotte, etc. All of these women married in their teens and it wasn't considered to be unusual. When Lady Fitz says that she was very young, I think it's likely that she was in her early to mid teens.

Some did, sure.  Many didn't though and "young" could mean either of those things or something in between.  My point in bringing it up was in trying to suss out the timeline with the actors' ages.  Both are in their 40s and look it, and unless a show specifically tells me to disregard that because they're playing much younger or older I tend to assume a character is more or less the same age as the actor portraying them.

 

9 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

It wouldn't have been impossible for her to marry without a dowry or her brother's support but based on her conversation with Charlotte, it seems like she's felt that marriage hasn't been in the cards for her ever since the rape and pregnancy. Unfortunately, it seems like she can't get past the idea that she's ruined. Very sad that she's lived with this for so long and has been unable to confide in anyone who will be sympathetic and understanding. No wonder she values Charlotte's friendship. This is probably the first person she's been able to truly be honest with without fear of being harshly judged.

You're right that it wouldn't have been impossible but it still feels unlikely.  In thinking some more about it, I'm now wondering how far the Marquess's control goes.  Typically, a woman's property legally became her husband's upon marriage and that would have been the end of it.  But if I'm correct in my earlier assumption that the parents knew and covered up that she'd had an out of wedlock child, might her father also not have put additional stipulations on her brother's eventual guardianship of her because of her "incapacity?"  Combine that with his clear sense of ownership and near jealousy of her with what we've just had confirmed, and it starts to paint a very ugly picture.   The Marquess clearly gets off on his control over her.  I know I'm way overthinking this at this point, but I've really been struck how many times he's thrown it in her face how she can't do much of anything without his signing off on it or implying that she's less than 100 percent.  Noble marriages were primarily about consolidating wealth and connections.  If it's commonly known that she's somehow deficient with an extremely controlling brother you're going to have to go through to get to her money, a lot of people may find her entertaining enough at social functions but are probably going to look elsewhere unless they're a really determined fortune hunter.  And as we saw last season with the example of the Howards, marriage really isn't freeing for women either.

There's probably a combination of things going on in her admitting that no one has touched her since while her brother makes a great point of flaunting all the other women he's either having or forcing himself on.  Because he's not just her brother or her rapist, he's both that as you say she has to dine and live with, beg money from, she's probably been left with a very warped idea of what normal healthy contact even looks like.  She certainly can't talk about any of this with anyone in her circle without risking social ruin.  

[OtterMommy]

6 hours ago, ElizaD said:

What a shame I missed season 1! This show is full of interesting female characters and relationships.

 

The first season is still available on Hulu!

I was impressed with this episode--I mean, I've always been impressed with this show, but this particular episode seemed to shine brighter than the rest.  

Yes, the Wells women made some really stupid decisions, but I actually understand why they made these decisions.  I can completely buy Margaret confessing and accepting her own execution to get her daughter out of the grips of Fallon.  When things like this happen in shows, I'm usually pretty confident that something will happen to save the doomed person.  Here...I'm not so sure.  Unless Hunt somehow goes back on his principles, I''m not sure how Margaret can escape her fate.

I was pretty skeptical of how Liv Tyler would do in this show.  I've never been exactly a fan and this seemed way out of her depth, but she has proven me wrong.  Now that we know her secret, I can see how nuanced her performance is and has been.  Where Isabella is going with Charlotte will be interesting to watch--I'm not sure how the show will merger their two worlds, but I'm here to find out.

[IndyMischa]

20 hours ago, chaifan said:

 I think the show needs a little of a reset - too many big bads running around, and it takes the focus off the fun of the show - Quigley vs. Wells.  So, have the Marquess "fall" down a flight of stairs, Lady Fitz gets her fortune.  Kill off Lord Fallon, return Lucy to Greek Street.  Put Charlotte in charge, and continue the rivalry with Lydia.  Keep Emily and her house of exotics around, just 'cause they're fun.  Let Amelia pull through and marry Hunt, or not, either is ok with me. 

I'm in for all of that, except for Fallon and Lucy. I love the direction they seem to be going with that "relationship" this season, where the (almost comically literal) angelic girl gets gradually lured to the dark side. 

5 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

 I was pretty skeptical of how Liv Tyler would do in this show.  I've never been exactly a fan and this seemed way out of her depth, but she has proven me wrong.  Now that we know her secret, I can see how nuanced her performance is and has been.  

Same! The animal cracker foreplay with Affleck scarred me pretty badly, but she's officially redeemed herself for me here. 

[Riplet68]

Fallon had some nasty scratches on his back from Lucy (seen in last episode when they’re in bed).  He might really beginning to start to like her.  He was planning on fleeing London with her instead of throwing her to her fate.  We still haven’t seen the scene where he is getting blindfolded. He looks happy in it, so I don’t think he’s being punished by the psycho Spartans.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Isabella's brother met with Fallon and kept saying "Spartans do this" and "Spartans do that" he sounded like such a delusional fanboy who thinks he'll be supercool if he copies the cool kids.

[snowwhyte]

Lucy really showed her age in this episode. She's a teenage girl being led astray by her bad boy boyfriend, refusing to accept the warnings of her friends and family because they don't know him like she does and they're jealous. I do still feel bad for Lucy. She doesn't have the emotional maturity for the life she is living. Most of us gain maturity and a bit of wisdom through our life's lessons but I'm worried the lessons she's already had and those still to come will break her. 

Speaking of gaining maturity, Hunt might end up being one of the good guys after all. When he arrived he obviously had strong views on morality and the law and could have been a typical self-righteous hypocrite but the fact that he is willing to go after the rich men and is starting to consider people's motivations and show compassion lead me to have hope for him.

[aradia22]

Damn it. The beginning of the episode was rough. Why can't they ever just send in the cavalry?

"The law's as useless as paps on a man!"

Well, at least Lucy can throw around Fallon's name with Quigley. She's not a complete idiot.

FOR FUCK'S SAKE. How are Quigley's spies always overhearing things but Lucy's apparently in a carriage with soundproof glass next to Fallon and Lydia?

What kind of stupid plan is Fallon running around in broad daylight chasing Rasselas? Like no one's going to notice that?

Blayne is MONSTROUS. Why doesn't she hire people to kill him when he's out? Or poison his food? Or stab him in his sleep? He seems complacent. The way he's torturing her, she might as well just do it and have it done with.

UGH, I do not need Harriet running her own house. I'd rather have Nell.

To borrow a phrase from Daniel, what kind of demented thinking is this? Why the hell is Charlotte bargaining over her punishment with this random girl? She doesn't have to do anything she says. 

"That's absurd"!?! Lucy, you idiot, all you two have been doing is fetishizing knives and death and you think it's absurd that this guy could have stabbed someone? We're getting into too stupid to live territory.

Why is Fallon bothering to threaten Lucy with hanging? He could just kill her himself. She lives in his house.

Ooh, I hated Cherry when she ratted out Charlotte. I know why she's doing what she's doing but she picked the wrong team. Maybe she can find redemption working for Emily.

WOO! God bless! Charlotte has the bravado and recklessness to just start strangling Lydia. At the end of the day, she's just a small old woman. I'm reminded of what Nancy said about shadows. They're all just humans. She can be killed as easily as anyone else.

When a woman knows what she has to do, she does it. See Margaret not talking to anyone letting them dissuade her. She just went off to protect her family. 

I'm somehow not surprised but also completely shocked that Lucy is actually this much of a moron. They've somehow made the character from season 1 WORSE. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?

EW, no. Incest child. Why? Where is this going?

WOO! It's happening! Charlotte and Isabella!

Samantha Morton should have submitted this episode for Emmy consideration. 

[aradia22]

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The confession raised more questions for me than answers.

I think we're supposed to believe Isabella is younger than Liv Tyler but I agree the casting is off for this backstory. For her brother, too who seems even older. I would believe it if we were told they had different mothers and Isabella's mother was a second, younger wife.

I have no idea how she met Lydia. But maybe Lydia ferreted out the secret without meeting her. Like Lydia knew the midwife or something. And then she just popped up and started extorting her. I assume Lydia doesn't know it's an incest baby because she hasn't dropped hints around Blayne and she practically shouted about the baby in that very public gaming room so I don't think she'd be shy.

I feel like it would help to know when the parents died. If he was even more dastardly, I'd say he probably killed them so he could be in charge of the fortune and his sister.

I agree about marriage. But even though she's old enough to not need a guardian, I wonder how much control her brother has. The way he talks about her incapacity, he might have argued that she couldn't marry anyone. Or, if she pushed it, he might have married her to one of his cronies. I also don't know how much of her fortune he could hold back if she did marry. Is her inheritance laid out in legal terms? In books, women usually ask to be sent to convents or something but there are fates worse than staying with her brother. Again, with the way he was talking, he could have sent her to an insane asylum or something. In those days, it would have been horrifying. 

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 And choking Quigley in the drawing room in front of witnesses who work for her, really? 

I loved that. And notice that no one... not Anne or any of the other girls or the footmen stepped in to help or pull Charlotte off her. XD

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Jaime Lannister comes off like Prince Charming in comparison to this guy.

lol

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 When things like this happen in shows, I'm usually pretty confident that something will happen to save the doomed person.  Here...I'm not so sure.  

Same. Knowing an actor has another job or a show is getting cancelled or outside info like definitely keeps things exciting.

[Scarlett45]

On 8/8/2018 at 3:38 PM, Elivesta29 said:

My guess is the Marquess and Lady Fitz's parents were alive when they were teens and they sent her away to Lydia's(yeah a pretty strange choice but maybe daddy was a patron there) the rapist of Blayne was probably away travelling or at school. The parents must've died years ago now though or else I think Isabella may have been married, I can't see her brother arranging a marriage for her because then he'd lose his control over her. 

That’s what I’m thinking too. It’s possible the parents believed Lady Fitz about the rape, and thus sent their son away to keep him away from her. There were decent parents in this world but were constrained by social expectations.

Lady Fitz probably went to Lydia’s to have the baby (or Lydia arranged for the baby to be fostered/provided for). The trauma of the rape may have made her depressed or “nervous” as they called it back then. The parents may have urged Lady Fitz to marry but she’s wasnt inclined, and her parents died before they could make a match for her and hence her brother came back into their social circle and now has control over her money as her legal guardian.