S02.E02: Part II

[Door County Cherry]

Airs 8/8/2018

Quote

Ambrose and Heather begin to unravel where Julian is from; Julian is thrust into a new world.

[WaltersHair]

Gah but Bill Pullman is an under rated actor. I'm still intrigued and the show doesn't seem to be messing with us too much..

Still in

[Irlandesa]

I'm really enjoying this season so far.  Granted, we're only two episodes in but I think this feels less trippy even with the commune story.  That might have fit the first season given that there were drugs involved but I prefer this more straight forward/somewhat toned down approach. 

I agree Pullman is terrific.  I like Natalie Paul and she and Pullman have developed a terrific rapport as partners. Carrie Coon has such gravitas even though she hasn't had many dramatic scenes yet.  And I'm really surprised by how good the kid who plays Julian is--although I guess he's 14 so he's not as young as I thought he was. 

I think what is the most impressive is that the personal stories (Ambrose's childhood and Heather's commune-loving girlfriend) actually add to the plot for me instead of detract. 

[WaltersHair]

They need to DNA test Julian. Mothers are a a recurring theme and I'd bet Julian's biological mother is not the Great Carrie.

[AnimeMania]

I liked when Julian turned the light off on Bill Pullman when he decided he was done talking to him.

[ferjy]

17 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I liked when Julian turned the light off on Bill Pullman when he decided he was done talking to him.

And Ambrose (Bill) left sitting in the dark with a “Well, he told me!” expression on his face. lol

Edited August 9, 2018 by ferjy

[ferjy]

Regardless of the “mother’s” excuse, it’s a glaring oddity that Julian is the only child there. I can’t wait to see that truth to unfold. 

[patty1h]

Do they pray to that giant rock?  It looked like Heather saw blood on it, which makes it look like sacrifices are involved.  That may make me roll my eyes.

[AnnieHeights]

This is the first thing I have seen Carrie Coons in....... I think she is very pretty and plays menacing quite well.  I adore Bill Pullman in this, he is a fantastic actor.  The kid playing Julian is doing a great job, this is random but the scenes where his lips are chapped seemed like a very realistic touch and I liked when he was the one asking the questions to Ambrose.  Two episodes in and still fully invested!          

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, patty1h said:

Do they pray to that giant rock?  It looked like Heather saw blood on it, which makes it look like sacrifices are involved.  That may make me roll my eyes.

That would tie in with my first impression that Julian was intended as a sacrifice. Along with the way he is constantly being told he is special, to allay his fears. And now the dream with the hooded figure (death) coming after him. So they’re sacrificing children (hence no children in the compound)? The “mother” said “There are no other children. We focus our energy into the work.” Maybe the work, the purpose of that particular group, is to prepare a chosen child as the sacrifice.
 

[Jextella]

21 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

Gah but Bill Pullman is an under rated actor. I'm still intrigued and the show doesn't seem to be messing with us too much..

Still in

I read an article quoting some director a long time ago.  Can't remember who, but whoever it was said Bill Pullman can pull off just about anything.   He's got a way about him such that he can play slimy (Malice), authoritative and strong (Independence Day),  neurotic (Sleepless in Seattle), charming and handsome (While You Were Sleeping is one of my favorite light romance movies of all time thanks to Bill Pullman; Sleepless in Seattle is up there too in large part to him as well).

He's a great pick for this series because his character is maybe a little of all of the above. 

I have always had a mad crush on Bill P and it is still as strong as ever!

Edited August 10, 2018 by Jextella
typo

[LoveLeigh]

Hmmmm why does Marin look so much like Vera? I am really running with some wild theory that involves speculation. Does this show have a speculation thread? 

Edited August 10, 2018 by DakotaLavender

[AnimeMania]

The Salvation thread is nothing but speculation. As long as you didn't read some spoilers I think it is ok to let your imagination run wild.

[jrlr]

8 hours ago, Jextella said:

I read an article quoting some director a long time ago.  Can't remember who, but whoever it was said Bill Pullman can pull off just about anything.   He's got a way about him such that he can play creepy and evil (Malice), authoritative and strong (Independence Day),  neurotic (Sleepless in Seattle), charming and handsome (While You Were Sleeping is one of my favorite light romance movies of all time thanks to Bill Pullman; Sleepless in Seattle is up there two in large part to him as well).

He's a great pick for this series because his character is maybe a little of all of the above. 

I have always had a mad crush on Bill P and it is still as strong as ever!

How was Pullman creepy and evil in Malice?  He was the duped pawn in a big-money insurance scam dreamed up by Alec Baldwin and Nicole Kidman - Pullman was the protagonist.

So far this is better than the first season, but I'm getting really sick (here and in other shows) of the "we didn't know electricity was invented" relentless darkness.  We get it, it's a dark story.  But when you can't even see half of what's going on,  it wears very thin.  If I'm going to have to work at understanding what is going on, it should be because the story is complex, not because it was shot in the dark.

[TattleTeeny]

I may be remembering things out of order (so feel free to let me know) but I feel like it took the cops too long to come up with the idea that the couple was fleeing the compound. Heather mentioned (I believe after learning that the “real” mom or the kid or the dead couple) lives just off of Whatever Street) that the only thing there was the compound, which was 20 minutes away. Which would make one think why would they need to get a hotel if your car  broke down so close to home (especially when said car had no vacation bag for the kid)?

Edited August 10, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[Simba122504]

Looks like this season isn't as popular as last season. Disappointing because this season so far is really good. Now, it still has a chance of going left before the season is over. *I enjoyed S1* But as of right now it has my attention. It's impossible for no other kids to not exist in the community. We even seen the flashback that Novack's girlfriend was attracted to that guy. Unless everyone is asexual, sex will happen. What's really going on?

Edited August 11, 2018 by Simba122504
Adding more thoughts

[LoveLeigh]

6 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

The Salvation thread is nothing but speculation. As long as you didn't read some spoilers I think it is ok to let your imagination run wild.

What is the Salvation thread?

[Xeliou66]

Very interesting so far, not too complicated to follow. I had a feeling from the start the 2 victims weren’t coming back, I just wonder if they were escaping or if they were planning some kind of suicide mission/terror attack. It’s very odd that there are no other children at the commune, that will definitely be a key plot point IMO. I’m not sure what exactly the mother is hiding but she definitely influenced Julian to change his story. 

[AnimeMania]

1 hour ago, DakotaLavender said:

What is the Salvation thread?

The forum talk for the TV show Salvation.

http://forums.previously.tv/forum/3251-salvation/

A show about an asteroid about to collide with earth, but every TV cliche every made has been thrown into the show, so debate and speculation is running rampant. Not a great show, but the people discussing it are heavily invested in the outcome. The show is in the middle of it's second season.

[ferjy]

I just caught up with the end which I’d missed before. So it looks like Adam and Bess were escaping and trying to save Julian. Vera had said that Bess and Julian were close, which seemed to be the case. I wonder if Bess is his real mother. That could be why she said the trip was so important to her. Poor Julian must be so brainwashed to have poisoned them when they were trying to help him. 

Edited August 10, 2018 by ferjy

[LoveLeigh]

hidden for possible truth in my speculation: 

Spoiler

Vera and Marin side by side. 

Spoiler

Look at them together..... they look like the same person to me: their pics

Plus Marin told Heather that they can make you forget who you are. I think Vera does not remember she was Marin (who disappeared)

 

Edited August 10, 2018 by DakotaLavender

[Jextella]

4 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

hidden for possible truth in my speculation: 

  Hide contents

Vera and Marin side by side. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Look at them together..... they look like the same person to me: their pics

Plus Marin told Heather that they can make you forget who you are. I think Vera does not remember she was Marin (who disappeared)

 

 

Would love a speculation thread here to read all the great thoughts.    This is a good one, and I think you may be on to something!  Or, maybe this?

Spoiler

The boy is Marin's child and Vera took him as her own?  Although I think Vera and Marin being the same person makes more sense given what the commune looked like when Marin entered and what it looks like today (campfire burnings vs. organized "work"), i.e. someone from the outside propped up as some sort of leader to take charge?   When the young man took Marin into the shed, he said "There's someone I'd like you to meet."  Could be a man who impregnated Marin?

I also like the idea that Marin and Vera are the same person because Vera has moments where she is sort of clueless about certain things that a normal adult would have known - which she would have picked up on before joining the cult.  For example, not know about registering a child for school.  These things wouldn't be on a teenager's radar but most adults know about them or have a sense of the "rules", etc.

I also wonder if Heather's father is involved in this in some way.   There isn't anything to suggest that this is the case other than he appears to know about Heather and Marin going in at Heather's suggestion and Marin never coming back.  Revenge in some way, perhaps.  He seems a little skeevy.

I also think we'll hear more about the company Vera used to work for - Interlogix.

2

2

 

 

Is anyone paying attention to the timing such as ages?  For example, how old were Marin and Heather when they went in and how old Heather is now?  Can't recall but Vera refers to the boy as being 12 or 13... can't recall which. 

Edited August 10, 2018 by Jextella

[izabella]

Vera showed an Oregon Driver's License that was expired.  Did the cops then let her get back into her car without a valid drivers license?

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

Vera showed an Oregon Driver's License that was expired.  Did the cops then let her get back into her car without a valid drivers license?

Heather didn't actually say it was expired, just that it obviously wasn't her current address. It was probably still valid. I forget exactly how long it is, but you have about three months after moving to have the license changed over.  Although, they made it sound like she was at the commune for several years not just a few months. Didn't she say that Julian was born at the Osborne commune and lived there all his life? Being his "mother" she would obviously have been there too. So all of Julian's 13 years at least. All I can think of (besides its being a plot hole) is that at that time Heather didn't know that Vera had been there for that length of time. But then wouldn't the license say when it expired. Ha ha, I'm shooting down my own theories! I think you're right and it was expired. And a long time ago too! Good catch.

[ferjy]

5 hours ago, Jextella said:

Would love a speculation thread here to read all the great thoughts.    This is a good one, and I think you may be on to something!  Or, maybe this?

  Reveal hidden contents

The boy is Marin's child and Vera took him as her own?  Although I think Vera and Marin being the same person makes more sense given what the commune looked like when Marin entered and what it looks like today (campfire burnings vs. organized "work"), i.e. someone from the outside propped up as some sort of leader to take charge?   When the young man took Marin into the shed, he said "There's someone I'd like you to meet."  Could be a man who impregnated Marin?

I also like the idea that Marin and Vera are the same person because Vera has moments where she is sort of clueless about certain things that a normal adult would have known - which she would have picked up on before joining the cult.  For example, not know about registering a child for school.  These things wouldn't be on a teenager's radar but most adults know about them or have a sense of the "rules", etc.

I also wonder if Heather's father is involved in this in some way.   There isn't anything to suggest that this is the case other than he appears to know about Heather and Marin going in at Heather's suggestion and Marin never coming back.  Revenge in some way, perhaps.  He seems a little skeevy.

I also think we'll hear more about the company Vera used to work for - Interlogix.

2

2

 

 

Is anyone paying attention to the timing such as ages?  For example, how old were Marin and Heather when they went in and how old Heather is now?  Can't recall but Vera refers to the boy as being 12 or 13... can't recall which. 

 

I don't see the resemblance myself, but that could be me. And it doesn't mean much in TV shows anyways, so it could work. Interesting theories. Good point about the "they can make you forget who you are". I wouldn't put much stock in his not being registered at school though. People in communes live by their own standards and mostly ignore conventional rules. But the timelines probably work. Julian is 13. Heather's dad had mentioned that the quarterback that disappeared was in high school, so the girls were probably in high school as well (he mentioned Heather's "classmate" (Marin), so they were maybe 16 or 17 which would make Vera (and Heather) around 30. Vera looks it, but isn't Heather meant to be younger? They mentioned a few times how Heather was young to be a newly appointed Detective. But I'm not sure what age is young to be a detective. Is 30 young for a detective?

I don't think you really need a speculation thread. Everyone speculates in episode threads, as long as you're not revealing any spoilers you might have read. If it's your own deductions, it's usually fine. But if you really wanted a speculation thread, I believe you can start one yourself (I read it somewhere on here). If you go to the main The Sinner page, there's a "Start New Topic" button.

Edited August 10, 2018 by ferjy

[meep.meep]

On 8/9/2018 at 4:36 PM, jrlr said:

So far this is better than the first season, but I'm getting really sick (here and in other shows) of the "we didn't know electricity was invented" relentless darkness.  We get it, it's a dark story.  But when you can't even see half of what's going on,  it wears very thin.  If I'm going to have to work at understanding what is going on, it should be because the story is complex, not because it was shot in the dark.

I'm hoping it's better than the first season.  At least they seem to have gotten over their fascination with wallpaper patterns.

So the couple took the kid, drove around for a long time, and ended up 20 minutes away from where they started?  Not such great voyaging there.

[Jextella]

I don't think either of the two seasons are masterfully crafted why-dunnits, but the stories are entertaining and mysterious enough to have made me binge all of Season 1 and lock me in for Season 2.  I like the number of episodes too.  Not too many - not too few.

Ok, so I have another thought.  

Spoiler

Heather is black.  The dad is white.  There is a tall, slender black woman in the commune who whispered something in Vera's ear when Ambrose and Heather were there.  She could be about the age of the dad.  Major stretch, but I wonder if there is a connection there....maybe Vera is the voice/face of the commune but Heather's parents are really in charge - and for reasons having to do with Interlogics. It could also explain how the older guy with the ponytail made it to the motel at the same time as Ambrose and Heather.  Heather's dad clued him in. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by Jextella

[Xeliou66]

I wondered if I was the only one who was suspicious of Heather’s dad, his presence seems rather pointless, just a plot tool for Ambrose to enter the storyline, I have to think he will be more essential to the plot somehow, I’ve wondered if he could be involved in the case somehow. 

[IDreamofJoaquin]

9 hours ago, meep.meep said:

So the couple took the kid, drove around for a long time, and ended up 20 minutes away from where they started?  Not such great voyaging there.

I know right?

 

It is either a plot hole (since Season 1 just didn't give a fuck about them this one may not either) or will lead to something.

[tennisgurl]

Carrie Coons as a cult leader? Sign me the hell up! She really adds a gravitas to the situation, and she has a certainty to her, but also something creepy and threatening, that really makes me buy her as someone people would follow. 

Its definitely questionable that there are no kids at the commune other than Julian, and "the work" sounds creepier every time they say it. Maybe kids are sacrificed, or sent out into the world to recruit new people? Or they think Julian is some kind of chosen one or anti Christ? Do cult hippies have an anti Christ? There is definitely something up. I originally thought that the couple was kidnapping Julian to kill him, or do some kind of terrorist act, but maybe Julian killed them because they were trying to save him, and he is too brainwashed to know it?

I like the flashbacks so far, and how they are tying into the plot. Very interested in seeing more of the connection between Julian and Ambrose. I am also wondering more about Heather's dad. he seems like an alright guy, but there are beats with him that are kind of...off. Some of it can be written off as just awkwardness (his randomly telling Ambrose that Amber is a lesbian, him constantly trying to get closer to Ambrose) or having some weird small town values (being seemingly more upset about the kid killing himself being an awesome quarterback than killing himself), but all together, it makes me suspicious. 

[msrachelj]

On 8/9/2018 at 12:39 AM, WaltersHair said:

They need to DNA test Julian. Mothers are a a recurring theme and I'd bet Julian's biological mother is not the Great Carrie.

they sure as hell do not look even remotely related. 

[Broderbits]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Its definitely questionable that there are no kids at the commune other than Julian, and "the work" sounds creepier every time they say it. Maybe kids are sacrificed, or sent out into the world to recruit new people? Or they think Julian is some kind of chosen one or anti Christ?

This season's plot seems to have been influenced by "Midnight Special", although I doubt Julian has 1/100th the abilities of the boy wonder in that movie. 

I'm liking season 2 much more than 1; they really did a terrible job adapting that book last year.

[TomGirl]

Who was the woman with short hair who was wearing Bess's necklace?  I thought she looked like (and might be) Marin.

Edited August 14, 2018 by TomGirl

[SoSueMe]

I am in the minority on my opinion of Bill Pullman. He almost always creeps me out, so furtive and underhanded looking. That said, it works on this show given his, shall we say, issues. Including last season's issues. The child portraying Julian is outstanding.

I am waiting for someone in the cult to recognize Heather as the companion of the other girl.

Edited August 16, 2018 by SoSueMe

[Rickster]

Have been just catching up on the last two episodes. One thing I thought a bit mysterious was A) how did “mom” know her son was being held by the police? And B) why didn’t we see the police ask her that question when she showed up? I could surmise that the ponytailed guy and maybe others scoured the area and relayed the info back to her, but the police had no idea about that when she arrived at the station.

[Jextella]

No father: Julian
No mother: Heather
No children: the Commune (other than Julian)

I wonder if the kid cast as Julian was chosen because his ethnicity could go in a few different directions.   Could be nothing, but it could also be a bit of a clue.
 

[zillabreeze]

I have nothing to add to y'alls excellent comments.  I am loving the start of this story.  Very intrigued.

I almost didn't start it because #1 was so bloody awful on so many levels.

Glad I hit record.  

[CrazyDog]

On 8/11/2018 at 9:44 AM, tennisgurl said:

I like the flashbacks so far, and how they are tying into the plot. Very interested in seeing more of the connection between Julian and Ambrose. I am also wondering more about Heather's dad. he seems like an alright guy, but there are beats with him that are kind of...off. Some of it can be written off as just awkwardness (his randomly telling Ambrose that Amber is a lesbian, him constantly trying to get closer to Ambrose) or having some weird small town values (being seemingly more upset about the kid killing himself being an awesome quarterback than killing himself), but all together, it makes me suspicious. 

I agree with something subtle being off with Heather's dad - it could be just a red herring, but there were times I didn't trust him. It could also be how Ambrose reacts to him too, just kind of hesitant, like there is some history there we don't know yet.

Bill Pullman is just fantastic, and I love watching his wheels turn, and his little reactions to everything.

The commune is so creepy.

I wasn't sure about watching this season, but I'm hooked again. 

[AnimeMania]

Speculation:

Spoiler

 

What if Heather was originally taken from that cult. The police chief said they raided the cult a couple of years ago and everything went horribly wrong.

I don't think any of the people you mentioned is Marin. Heather and Marin were lovers, I think Heather would recognize Marin regardless of the time that has passed.

 

[Irlandesa]

On 8/12/2018 at 9:16 AM, TomGirl said:

Who was the woman with short hair who was wearing Bess's necklace?  I thought she looked like (and might be) Marin.

Yeah, I thought the woman with the almost shaved head resembled Marin more than Vera. 

On 8/14/2018 at 2:40 PM, AnimeMania said:

I don't think any of the people you mentioned is Marin. Heather and Marin were lovers, I think Heather would recognize Marin regardless of the time that has passed.

 

She would but I don't think she saw the woman with the necklace. 

[WaltersHair]

Not to get too OT, but Bill Pullman as "stupidest person on the face of the earth" is a must see in Ruthless People. He was creepy in Lost Highway and The Last Seduction.  Here, he's perfect with more than a touch of oddness.

I find Tracy Lett's character a little sinister too. I'm hoping it's not because in real life he's married to Carrie Coons, whose character is overtly sinister. This is just the kind of show that would turn our opinion about her on its head.

[Jextella]

On 8/16/2018 at 1:23 AM, WaltersHair said:

Not to get too OT, but Bill Pullman as "stupidest person on the face of the earth" is a must see in Ruthless People. He was creepy in Lost Highway and The Last Seduction.  Here, he's perfect with more than a touch of oddness.

I find Tracy Lett's character a little sinister too. I'm hoping it's not because in real life he's married to Carrie Coons, whose character is overtly sinister. This is just the kind of show that would turn our opinion about her on its head.

1

Did not know!  Thanks for sharing.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Jextella
posted same info twice in error.

[Anela]

On 8/9/2018 at 11:19 AM, Jextella said:

I read an article quoting some director a long time ago.  Can't remember who, but whoever it was said Bill Pullman can pull off just about anything.   He's got a way about him such that he can play slimy (Malice), authoritative and strong (Independence Day),  neurotic (Sleepless in Seattle), charming and handsome (While You Were Sleeping is one of my favorite light romance movies of all time thanks to Bill Pullman; Sleepless in Seattle is up there too in large part to him as well).

He's a great pick for this series because his character is maybe a little of all of the above. 

I have always had a mad crush on Bill P and it is still as strong as ever!

I loved While You Were Sleeping, and had a crush on Bill Pullman for years, because of it.