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On 11/19/2020 at 7:06 PM, Joe Hellandback said:

what bitchiness

From throwing a fit and almost running away (again) in Dead Man's Party until literally EVERY episode of the final season we have plenty of evidence regarding this particular Buffy's character trait throughout seasons 3 - 7.

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"A stuck-up tight-ass with no sense of fun", to quote Fuffy.  Just because a girl's psychotic, that doesn't mean she can't be right, too.

"I could do anything I want, but instead I choose to whine and pout and feel the Burden of Slayerness."  And this is BEFORE Dawn, I'm just saying.

Anyway, new topic:  Britain's back under quarantine, so let's dig out this article from March about The 50 Most Binge-Worthy Shows, Ever

Guess who's #1??  🤩

A certain amount of excusing the inexcusable, but I did appreciate their pointing out that this show is hardly the only one to make stupid later-season romantic pairing choices.  I mean, Rachel/Joey was based on nothing more than Joey's being jealous of Chandler (!) for having an across-the-hall booty call, FFS.   And I didn't know that Penn Badgeley was playing the much-hailed "Joe from You"; I must accelerate my plans to get around to that series.

OTOH, claiming that LOST was once "a tightly-wound mystery series starring a small band of compelling characters" (did you even watch S1?  I did, which is why I never watched after that) and only later started "treading water" and then got really silly is the scariest thing I've read since finding out that the two seasons of How I Met Your Mother that I'd left unseen got even worse.  Eep!

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On 11/18/2020 at 8:00 AM, lembergwatcher said:

"Xander Was Oblivious To Willow's Feelings"

Given that by I Robot, You Jane, Buffy is not merely telling Xander about Willow's feelings (which The Pack pretty heavily implies he's already aware of), but claiming that he's comfortable deriving pleasure from them ("Yeah, but you got used to being the belle of the ball."), I should think "oblivious" would be a rather difficult sell.  He's emotionally reticent, not brain-damaged.

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Joss in the news again;

Joss Whedon departs from his upcoming sci-fi series The Nevers as HBO still plans a 2021 debut | Daily Mail Online

I always rather hope if things go wrong for him he might be tempted to come back to the Buffyverse?

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45 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

I always rather hope if things go wrong for him he might be tempted to come back to the Buffyverse?

No, no, please no... Fanfiction writers would've done a better job than Joss & his team of "professional" writers.

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I was watching 'We Watch Whedon' the other night and they were talking about rumours of a Buffy sequel series being planned, I haven't heard anything, anyone else confirm?

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1 hour ago, illdoc said:

Yes, but only in reference to the original 2018 reports.  It hasn't been 2018 for a while.  (Actually or metaphorically, IMO.)

Also, as noted, the January 19th birthdate, while on solider ground astrologically, just doesn't line up with Surprise/Innocence.  The episodes cover four consecutive schooldays  (Buffy had a dream; Buffy has a wiggins over Joyce breaking the plate, has a party, gets wet, makes a big mistake;  Buffy finds Angel gone [in every sense] and cries herself to sleep;  Buffy kicks Judge ass and Angel's…) and her birthday is on the second of the four.  Thus either, for that week in 1998, Tuesday (the 20th) or (IMO less-likely) Wednesday the 21st.  Later specifics about astrology allowed to be slightly fuzzy, IMO.

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Well, at least I can now say that I started disliking Whedon long before it became trendy. 🙂

Edited by Jack Shaftoe
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6 minutes ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

Well, at least I can now say that I started disliking Whedon long before it became trendy. 🙂

Same. I even mentioned on Twitter a bunch of times that those of us who were fans of Angel knew something was wrong during S4. 

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Wasn't this all known already? I feel like I knew about this Charisma Carpenter stuff forever.

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I think it's important in these conversations to point out the specific allegations being made:

1) ongoing passive aggressive threats to fire her

2) called her fat had gained weight because of her pregnancy (she was 4 months pregnant and weighed 126 pounds)

3) was mean, biting and disparaging to people, affecting their self-esteem

4) played favorites and pitted people against each other

5) berated her about a rosary tattoo she got to make herself feel more spiritually grounded

6) didn't return calls to her agent so her agent could tell him CC was pregnant

7) When apprised she was pregnant, they had a private  meeting where he

            a) asked if she was going to keep the baby

           b) "manipulatively used my womanhood and faith against me"

           c) mocked her religious beliefs

           d) attacked her character

           e) accused her of trying to sabotage the show

8  )  he called her in for late-night shoots (1 AM) after her doctor recommended shortening her work hours

9 ) caused her Brexton Hicks contractions because of the mental and physical stress of working with him

10)  fired her the season after she gave birth and was th primary breadwinner for her new family

I'm not sure how I feel about this. It's clear that JW was an asshole. But CC did fuck with the show. It was an action adventure show where she's a primary character, and her decision to become pregnant had repercussions. It meant arcs had to be rewritten and revised, it meant schedules had to be restructured. If Cordy hadt been part of the season's plans -- and I don't know -- her becoming pregnant and limited screwed things up. It might explain the Cordy/Conner stuff because they didn't want to constantly hide her behind a desk. Even by CC's own statement, she wasn't able to work as much or as long -- or she didn't want to be available for late-night callbacks. Is a show runner allowed to be pissed if their show is being disrupted because of a cast member's personal decisions? And if they are pissed, are they allowed to let the cast member know that?

After all, a major change in a character's appearance or availability aren't things that just affect the showrunner. They affect writers, and directors, and wardrobers and key grips and everyone on the set. His frustration over the larger picture may have been swelling up. Or he might just be a giant dick. Probably both.

Edited by whiporee

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Any proper HR department would be horrified if one of their managers acted the way Joss Whedon did towards Charisma.  

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3 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

Same. I even mentioned on Twitter a bunch of times that those of us who were fans of Angel knew something was wrong during S4. 

And Joss has been more or less open about his assholeishness. The way he thought Amber Benson was too "fat" to play Tara always stayed with me, and affected how I viewed Joss's character. I get the man has a strong vision, and wants things just-so, but he seems to think that gives him carte blanche to treat actors in his works like disposable trash.

Plus, it always bothered me he had so few people of color in his shows until AoS.

Don't get me started on the whole fake Chinese-influenced civilization that supposedly existed in Firefly.

Edited by steelyis
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2 hours ago, whiporee said:

I think it's important in these conversations to point out the specific allegations being made:

1) ongoing passive aggressive threats to fire her

2) called her fat had gained weight because of her pregnancy (she was 4 months pregnant and weighed 126 pounds)

3) was mean, biting and disparaging to people, affecting their self-esteem

4) played favorites and pitted people against each other

5) berated her about a rosary tattoo she got to make herself feel more spiritually grounded

6) didn't return calls to her agent so her agent could tell him CC was pregnant

7) When apprised she was pregnant, they had a private  meeting where he

            a) asked if she was going to keep the baby

           b) "manipulatively used my womanhood and faith against me"

           c) mocked her religious beliefs

           d) attacked her character

           e) accused her of trying to sabotage the show

8  )  he called her in for late-night shoots (1 AM) after her doctor recommended shortening her work hours

9 ) caused her Brexton Hicks contractions because of the mental and physical stress of working with him

10)  fired her the season after she gave birth and was th primary breadwinner for her new family

Makes you wonder how he dealt with Scarlett Johanssen's pregnancy during AoU.

2 hours ago, whiporee said:

I'm not sure how I feel about this. It's clear that JW was an asshole. But CC did fuck with the show. It was an action adventure show where she's a primary character, and her decision to become pregnant had repercussions. It meant arcs had to be rewritten and revised, it meant schedules had to be restructured. If Cordy hadt been part of the season's plans -- and I don't know -- her becoming pregnant and limited screwed things up. It might explain the Cordy/Conner stuff because they didn't want to constantly hide her behind a desk. Even by CC's own statement, she wasn't able to work as much or as long -- or she didn't want to be available for late-night callbacks. Is a show runner allowed to be pissed if their show is being disrupted because of a cast member's personal decisions? And if they are pissed, are they allowed to let the cast member know that?

After all, a major change in a character's appearance or availability aren't things that just affect the showrunner. They affect writers, and directors, and wardrobers and key grips and everyone on the set. His frustration over the larger picture may have been swelling up. Or he might just be a giant dick. Probably both.

Joss could have handled the situation better. He's a good writer, despite all his many flaws, and he could have worked around CC's situation with minimum drama if he really wanted to. Instead, he chose to act like a petty tyrant.

Edited by steelyis · Reason: spelling
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Writing around a pregnancy is a pretty normal part of being a showrunner, not some once-in-a-lifetime type of emergency that makes it understandable to be extremely pissed at the actress in question. I have seen on another forum Tim Minear denying the rumours that Charisma took her sweet time telling Joss, I guess Joss just had to have Evil Cordelia fight Angel in the finale because he has some weird fetish for Face-Heel-Turns and every seasonal arc had to have somebody betraying the team. When this "genius" plan was thwarted he lashed out.

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1 hour ago, steelyis said:

And Joss has been more or less open about his assholeishness. The way he thought Amber Benson was too "fat" to play Tara always stayed with me, and affected how I viewed Joss's character. I get the man has a strong vision, and wants things just-so, but he seems to think that gives him carte blanche to treat actors in his works like disposable trash.

Plus, it always bothered me he had so few people of color in his shows until AoS.

Don't get me started on the whole fake Chinese-influenced civilization that supposedly existed in Firefly.

Amber Benson mentioned how toxic working on the show was. Shame. 

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1 hour ago, steelyis said:

Makes you wonder how he dealt with Scarlett Johanssen's pregnancy during AoU.

I've always thought that had something to do with the "issues" with the movie. 

Yes, pregnancy is going to throw a monkey wrench into a production schedule, yes, he even had a right to be not pleased about it, but there were better ways of handling it than the assassination of Cordelia's character, which IMO is exactly what he did.

I don't remember where, but I heard that her absence from three episodes in S3, when she went on vacation with Groo, was because she had a miscarriage. So it's not like Joss didn't know that her getting pregnant was a possibility. 

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I am actually old enough to have watched both Buffy and Angel during their first run on TV and it was well known through the grapevine at the time that JW was a nasty controlling bastard (especially with the female cast) and that he was furious with CC  for getting pregnant.  I always thought that whole evil Cordy boinks Connor story line was his way to take it out on CC.  He could have put CC behind a potted plant or a desk to hide her belly instead of destroying the Cordy character.  My two cents from my memory of the whole mess.

 

Edited by magdalene
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52 minutes ago, magdalene said:

I am actually old enough to have watched both Buffy and Angel during their first run on TV and it was well known through the grapevine at the time that JW was a nasty controlling bastard (especially with the female cast) and that he was furious with CC  for getting pregnant.  I always thought that whole evil Cordy boinks Connor story line was his way to take it out on CC. 

So am I and this was widely discussed at the time.  Whedon was punishing her for not acting like a chessboard piece.  CC has alluded to this in the past and good for her for putting it out there.

I enjoyed Buffy to a point and Angel up until Cordy's character gets trashed and Firefly all the way through.  It's too bad that Whedon is an asshole but there it is.

 

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1 hour ago, magdalene said:

I am actually old enough to have watched both Buffy and Angel during their first run on TV and it was well known through the grapevine at the time that JW was a nasty controlling bastard (especially with the female cast) and that he was furious with CC  for getting pregnant.  I always thought that whole evil Cordy boinks Connor story line was his way to take it out on CC.  He could have put CC behind a potted plant or a desk to hide her belly instead of destroying the Cordy character.  My two cents from my memory of the whole mess.

 

 

12 minutes ago, raven said:

So am I and this was widely discussed at the time.  Whedon was punishing her for not acting like a chessboard piece.  CC has alluded to this in the past and good for her for putting it out there.

I enjoyed Buffy to a point and Angel up until Cordy's character gets trashed and Firefly all the way through.  It's too bad that Whedon is an asshole but there it is.

 

I remember all the BTS talk back then, too.

We old! 😁😂😭

At the time I didn't understand why Joss was doing what he doing to Cordy. I've said before Joss is a good writer, and not only that, he's an aware writer. He had to know how he was making Cordelia look. He had to know how disrespectful the story line was to her character. Yet, he kept whittling Cordy down until she became an incubator, then had her fall into in a coma like some soap opera character, and then, finally, killed her off. It was like he hated the character.

It didn't make any sense.

Then when CC spilled the tea about how Joss was angry with her for getting pregnant, all the bad writing suddenly made sense. Joss was just having a big ol' temper tantrum because he didn't get to play with his toys the way he wanted too, and ruined a really good show in the process. Pathetic.

 

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Well, at least I can now say that I started disliking Whedon long before it became trendy. 🙂

Can I join you at that table? 🙂

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I don't know about all this, people keep using words like abuse and unprofessional behaviour but what EXACTLY so they mean? That he shouted at people? Well I guess we can give up any hopes of a Buffy reunion featuring Joss?

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"Trachtenberg, who played Buffy Summers’ young sister Dawn on the show, re-posted Gellar’s statement to her own Instagram feed, and commented that Whedon’s behavior with her “as a teenager” was “not appropriate.”

“Thank you @sarahmgellar for saying this,” Trachtenberg wrote. “I am brave enough now as a 35 year old woman…. To repost this. Because. This must. Be known. As a teenager. With his not appropriate behavior……” Later, Trachtenberg added, “What he did was very bad. But we win. By surviving!”

A rep for Trachtenberg said she has no further comment" (c)
https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/sarah-michelle-gellar-joss-whedon-allegations-1234905160/

 

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13 hours ago, steelyis said:

Plus, it always bothered me he had so few people of color in his shows until AoS.

And outside of the pilot, I don't know how much he had to do with SHIELD.  That was the only episode that he wrote and directed, his brother was the top guy on that show.

I'm thankful for Joss creating Buffy, Angel, and Firefly, and directing 2 Avengers movies.  But, him being a shithead isn't a shock, it's been out there for awhile.  It's why when the Buffy sequel/reboot news broke, I was hoping he would have nothing to do with it.

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A VERY unpopular opinion, but I'll express it anyway.

Three things:

  1. Innocent until proven guilty;
  2. Accusations alone are barely enough to have Whedon's career ruined or put him behind bars;
  3. JW is probably a grade A large asshole even though I don't know the man personally.

JW controversy reminds me of Harvey Weinstein. Like everybody knew he was a creep and yet continued to look the other way for many years... And, yes, Hollywood is rotten to the core.

P.S.: I wonder what Alyson Hannigan has to say about this since she and Alexis Denisof are godparents to Whedon's son Arden?

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Innocent until proven guilty;

I get wanting to give someone the benefit of the doubt, but when so many people (besides Charisma Carpenter, you also have Ray Fisher, Amber Benson, Jason Momoa, and now Sarah Michelle Gellar and Michelle Trachtenberg) are publicly in agreement, there has be some truth to what they are saying, no?

 

Edited by Hiyo
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18 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

I get wanting to give someone the benefit of the doubt, but when so many people (besides Charisma Carpenter, you also have Ray Fisher, Amber Benson, Jason Momoa, and now Sarah Michelle Gellar and Michelle Trachtenberg) are publicly in agreement, there has be some truth to what they are saying, no?

 

And there have been rumblings of this for years.

There's been a lot of smoke around Whedon for quite a bit of time.

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4 hours ago, Jediknight said:

And outside of the pilot, I don't know how much he had to do with SHIELD.  That was the only episode that he wrote and directed, his brother was the top guy on that show.

I'm thankful for Joss creating Buffy, Angel, and Firefly, and directing 2 Avengers movies.  But, him being a shithead isn't a shock, it's been out there for awhile.  It's why when the Buffy sequel/reboot news broke, I was hoping he would have nothing to do with it.

I didn't realize that! Well, that's a little disappointing. I thought Joss had expanded his vision when it came to PoC.

4 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

A VERY unpopular opinion, but I'll express it anyway.

Three things:

  1. Innocent until proven guilty;
  2. Accusations alone are barely enough to have Whedon's career ruined or put him behind bars;
  3. JW is probably a grade A large asshole even though I don't know the man personally.

JW controversy reminds me of Harvey Weinstein. Like everybody knew he was a creep and yet continued to look the other way for many years... And, yes, Hollywood is rotten to the core.

P.S.: I wonder what Alyson Hannigan has to say about this since she and Alexis Denisof are godparents to Whedon's son Arden?

I've witnessed enough of Joss's shenanigans personally, that is to say I've read and listened to enough of his interviews and commentaries, to know he's up his own ass when it comes to his work. The man has never been shy about his actions when it comes to putting his vision on the screen, regardless of how bad an idea that vision might be. Yes, that was a pun meant to reference Joss fighting to show Vision's penis in AoU.

Unlike Harvey Weinstein, nothing Joss has done is something I would want him jailed or cancelled for. What I would like is for Joss to apologize and admit he was wrong to treat CC, and possibly Ray Fisher, the way he did. Then, I think he should try to make real strides towards changing his behavior going forward so it doesn't happen again.

Edited by steelyis

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4 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

Since CC has a tattoo of rosary on her left wrist, I assume she was born & raised Catholic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosary). But isn't anti-Catholicism totally acceptable in Hollywood? If that was the case, Joss probably didn't think he was doing something wrong.. 

 

See, that’s where it gets complicated. The character Cordelia could not/ would not get a wrist tattoo of the Rosary because any time Angel touched it it would burn him, wouldn’t it? Just like a cross, it’s a symbol of faith. So CC’s decision to get one was either a fuck you to JW, or the show, or to the people who would have to adjust to cover the tattoo. And that would be frustrating and angering if you were a showrunner. 

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Plenty of women (including Alyson Hannigan) have gotten pregnant while starring on tv shows. The writers always find a way around it, whether it's big coats or going on vacation or just shooting a lot of closeups for front view shots. Just because you have a contract for a show doesn't mean you have to put your personal life on hold for the duration. If you get pregnant, you shouldn't have to choose between your job and having a child. Punishing an actress for having the gall to get pregnant is not only appalling but also extremely unprofessional.

Part of being a writer/showrunner is being flexible and rolling with the punches. Joss originally wanted SMG to appear in Thank You, but she had a scheduling conflict so they ended up asking Charisma to come back for one more episode instead. See? That's flexibility. How about when Alexis Denisof was stricken with Bell's palsy? They managed to work around that by only shooting him from one side. Accommodations are made for actors all the time.

21 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Wasn't this all known already? I feel like I knew about this Charisma Carpenter stuff forever.

She has talked about it publicly multiple times. There's definitely a video of her at a convention panel where she bluntly said that S4's weird "Cordelia sleeps with Conner" storyline was because Joss was mad at her for getting pregnant. I know she talked about it on a podcast too. It was not a secret that Joss was shady as shit with her, especially at the end of things (he lured her back for one last episode and her condition was that he not kill Cordelia off, so he waited until she signed the contract and then had one of the producers tell her that they were killing off Cordelia).

4 hours ago, Hiyo said:

I get wanting to give someone the benefit of the doubt, but when so many people (besides Charisma Carpenter, you also have Ray Fisher, Amber Benson, Jason Momoa, and now Sarah Michelle Gellar and Michelle Trachtenberg) are publicly in agreement, there has be some truth to what they are saying, no?

The main stunt coordinator Jeff Pruitt and Sophia Crawford (Buffy's stunt double for S1-S4) did an interview last year where they said Joss called Sophia into his office and said she could come back for S5 if she dumped her boyfriend (who happened to be Jeff, the stunt coordinator).

James Leary (Clem) and Christopher Golden (who wrote a lot of the Buffy books) have also posted their support. ASH did an interview this morning where he said he had no idea any of this was going on and that he feels terrible for not knowing.

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8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Plenty of women (including Alyson Hannigan) have gotten pregnant while starring on tv shows. The writers always find a way around it, whether it's big coats or going on vacation or just shooting a lot of closeups for front view shots. Just because you have a contract for a show doesn't mean you have to put your personal life on hold for the duration. If you get pregnant, you shouldn't have to choose between your job and having a child. Punishing an actress for having the gall to get pregnant is not only appalling but also extremely unprofessional.

Couldn't you make the case Whedon did the same? He didn't fire her; he didn't write her off. He created a storyline she didn't like to explain a situation he didn't like. It may have been a dick move -- and no one is suggesting he wasn't a dick -- but he did make adjustments for her pregnancy. She just didn't like the ones he made. 

That creates an interesting question -- is it abusive to take a character you created and make them behave badly? If you flip a character into the bad guy three years in -- changing them from a protagonist to an antagonist -- is that fair to do to the actor who had invested their time and energy into building the character in question? Doing that -- making a beloved character a villain -- does damage an actor's public image (if they re mostly identified with the character). I'm thinking a lot about Danarys here -- beloved, people naming their babies after her and such -- and then having her be a mass murderer. Was that fair to do to Emilia Clarke? 

Edited by whiporee

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11 minutes ago, whiporee said:

He didn't fire her; he didn't write her off.

But he did fire her. He waited until the end of S4 and then fired her. He just didn't tell her that he had fired her. She found out when someone in the press called her to ask about how Cordelia wouldn't be in S5.

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Yeah,  innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply to me when the accused has twenty years of random people saying stuff.   I didn't know how badly affected charisma,  amber and Michelle were but I'm proud of them for speaking up.   It's no secret about the Angel drama with CC it's been spoken about for years in many formats so I wasn't the least bit surprised when Fischer came out against him.  Whenever an actor comes out against Joss, i just sigh at this point,  I idolized him as a writer in my youth,  but honestly as an adult,  him and mutant enemy as a whole are a bunch of shock value writers pretending to be feminists. 

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5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Plenty of women (including Alyson Hannigan) have gotten pregnant while starring on tv shows. The writers always find a way around it, whether it's big coats or going on vacation or just shooting a lot of closeups for front view shots. Just because you have a contract for a show doesn't mean you have to put your personal life on hold for the duration. If you get pregnant, you shouldn't have to choose between your job and having a child. Punishing an actress for having the gall to get pregnant is not only appalling but also extremely unprofessional.

Part of being a writer/showrunner is being flexible and rolling with the punches. Joss originally wanted SMG to appear in Thank You, but she had a scheduling conflict so they ended up asking Charisma to come back for one more episode instead. See? That's flexibility. How about when Alexis Denisof was stricken with Bell's palsy? They managed to work around that by only shooting him from one side. Accommodations are made for actors all the time.

She has talked about it publicly multiple times. There's definitely a video of her at a convention panel where she bluntly said that S4's weird "Cordelia sleeps with Conner" storyline was because Joss was mad at her for getting pregnant. I know she talked about it on a podcast too. It was not a secret that Joss was shady as shit with her, especially at the end of things (he lured her back for one last episode and her condition was that he not kill Cordelia off, so he waited until she signed the contract and then had one of the producers tell her that they were killing off Cordelia).

The main stunt coordinator Jeff Pruitt and Sophia Crawford (Buffy's stunt double for S1-S4) did an interview last year where they said Joss called Sophia into his office and said she could come back for S5 if she dumped her boyfriend (who happened to be Jeff, the stunt coordinator).

James Leary (Clem) and Christopher Golden (who wrote a lot of the Buffy books) have also posted their support. ASH did an interview this morning where he said he had no idea any of this was going on and that he feels terrible for not knowing.

The man was out of control.

Completely up his own ass.

4 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

 

It's likely Joss respected ASH enough to stay professional when they interacted.

Besides, it seems like Joss did people dirty in closed door meetings, or through proxies, so no one else could see him holding a shovel.

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So many actors/actresses come up again and again on Joss' shows. It makes me wonder why.

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24 minutes ago, secnarf said:

So many actors/actresses come up again and again on Joss' shows. It makes me wonder why.

Because he has his favorites? I think he was an asshole to some but not all for whatever reasons. And some of these actors are not A list, they were probably happy to get a job. 

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Michelle Trachtenberg added to her statement on Instagram (i.e. her comment on SMG's post), that there was a rule that Joss was not allowed to be alone with her (MT). The media hasn't seemed to pick up on her story to the extent I think it should have. The problem with Joss and Ray Fisher and Joss and CC seems to be more along the lines of bullying, being mean, i.e. emotional abuse.

Given her tender age when she was on BtVS, Michelle seems to be pointing toward something more sinister.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLH9ce-ByTV/

 

 

Michelle Trachtenberg re Joss.jpg

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20 hours ago, Jediknight said:

And outside of the pilot, I don't know how much he had to do with SHIELD.  That was the only episode that he wrote and directed, his brother was the top guy on that show.

I'm thankful for Joss creating Buffy, Angel, and Firefly, and directing 2 Avengers movies.  But, him being a shithead isn't a shock, it's been out there for awhile.  It's why when the Buffy sequel/reboot news broke, I was hoping he would have nothing to do with it.

I don't buy the people of colour schtick, partly because that accurately reflects Santa Barba and he also had Gunn?

20 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

A VERY unpopular opinion, but I'll express it anyway.

Three things:

  1. Innocent until proven guilty;
  2. Accusations alone are barely enough to have Whedon's career ruined or put him behind bars;
  3. JW is probably a grade A large asshole even though I don't know the man personally.

JW controversy reminds me of Harvey Weinstein. Like everybody knew he was a creep and yet continued to look the other way for many years... And, yes, Hollywood is rotten to the core.

P.S.: I wonder what Alyson Hannigan has to say about this since she and Alexis Denisof are godparents to Whedon's son Arden?

Agreed, not going to judge. 

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15 hours ago, whiporee said:

See, that’s where it gets complicated. The character Cordelia could not/ would not get a wrist tattoo of the Rosary because any time Angel touched it it would burn him, wouldn’t it? Just like a cross, it’s a symbol of faith. So CC’s decision to get one was either a fuck you to JW, or the show, or to the people who would have to adjust to cover the tattoo. And that would be frustrating and angering if you were a showrunner. 

If you read Slayers and Vampires it explains why CC was fired and it does stand to reason, her pregnancy really screwed everything up, the tatt was an incredibly stupid thing to do in a show about vampires and they needed to cut costs if they were going to bring Spike over as a regular and keep the show going.  

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8 hours ago, steelyis said:

The man was out of control.

Completely up his own ass.

 

It's likely Joss respected ASH enough to stay professional when they interacted.

Besides, it seems like Joss did people dirty in closed door meetings, or through proxies, so no one else could see him holding a shovel.

I have sympathy with him, he was running 3 tv shows at once, sleep deprived and with a multitude of problems, the captain of his ship, the general of his army, I'm sure he couldn't be nice to everyone all the time. 

56 minutes ago, General Days said:

Michelle Trachtenberg added to her statement on Instagram (i.e. her comment on SMG's post), that there was a rule that Joss was not allowed to be alone with her (MT). The media hasn't seemed to pick up on her story to the extent I think it should have. The problem with Joss and Ray Fisher and Joss and CC seems to be more along the lines of bullying, being mean, i.e. emotional abuse.

Given her tender age when she was on BtVS, Michelle seems to be pointing toward something more sinister.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLH9ce-ByTV/

 

 

Michelle Trachtenberg re Joss.jpg

Okay, THAT is a lot more disturbing than to say Joss shouted at the cast. 

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Charisma Carpenter's tattoo was not a big deal. Professional makeup artists who work on tv shows and movies cover up actors' tattoos all the time. You just slap some dermablend on and you're good to go. They could have also had her wear long sleeves or bracelets. One of my friends has a job where she isn't supposed to have visible tattoos but she wears a bunch of bracelets on that arm. It's been years and not a single person she has worked with in that time has ever realized she has a tattoo. She likes her tattoo but, like Charisma, she wasn't going to avoid doing something she wanted to do in her personal life just because of her job.

As for ASH not knowing, that's not surprising. Some predators are smart enough not to abuse their victims in front of the kind of people who would intervene. ASH seemed visibly shaken and guilty that he hadn't noticed what was going on.

J. August Richards and Eliza Dushku have also publicly supported Charisma today.

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