Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search
Celebrating 1,000 NCIS-franchise episodes

S06.E13: Breathe

Athena

By Athena
in Elementary [V]

Recommended Posts

shapeshifter

shapeshifter

7 hours ago, Vermicious Knid said:

Canon Watson got married but ACD killed off both his wives and moved him back to Baker Street, so nothing really changed

Killing off a child wouldn't make sense for the show, so if the writers need to get rid of him or her, perhaps private school, or they could just go with the trope of the child being off camera 90% of the time. 

Link to comment
iMonrey

iMonrey

(edited)
Quote

Joan could go this route, if she knows of someone offering this service and approves of them.  She would have to have a pretty good relationship with the home daycare provider, or pay a lot, in order to drop off a child at strange hours.

The point is this is something the writers never expected to have to deal with. They most likely planned for her to get a baby/child in the final episode, then BOOM. Show's over. Now they're going to have to deal with it. It could be as simple as an extra line every episode where Joan shows up at a crime scene saying "Sorry I'm late I had to drop Baby off at the sitter's." But it's going to get annoying. And then of course there's the inevitability of people complaining she's a bad mother because she dumps her kid off somewhere every day. 

So yeah, there's a number of ways the writers can handle this, but a baby or a child was never going to be part of the story, it was just meant as a sort of closure thing for a series finale.

Edited by iMonrey
  • Love 2
Link to comment
johntfs

johntfs

10 hours ago, basil said:

Now, why he chose cyanide, which is, as Watson said, an unpleasant death?

Presumably because a "pleasant" or painless death wouldn't fit the narrative he was constructing.

Link to comment
MisterGlass

MisterGlass

It was going to be the last season, but they got a surprise extension.

12 hours ago, basil said:

I'd have to watch again,  but didn't the hitman know his days (at least as a free man) were over? That the hammer was about to come down?

Yes, the FBI agent was investigating the financial records of two companies that hired him, and reached out to him for information.  That told him she was closing in.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
possibilities

possibilities

I hated Kitty at first but grew to love her. I still hate Morland, and Moriarty (though I like the impact Moriarty has on Sherlock). I also hated Sherlock's brother. I say all this because I was and still am strongly against the sudden and totally out of character and unearned idea of making Joan want a child, but I am willing at this point to at least hope the writers are decent enough to do something with it that won't kill the show.

I did not expect to feel this way. It really is about how so far they've used it to further the relationship between Joan and Sherlock-- not to destroy it. They've made clear they're not using it to drive a wedge between them, or to create conflict.

I figure Joan will hire a staff of live in nannies, maybe a weekday nanny and a weekend nanny, and a substitute nanny for odd days off and other emergencies. And they will become home based characters like their workplace counterparts in  Gregson and Bell. Or maybe they will be quirky diversions like Sherlock's irregulars. The show is very good at creating characters. I still remember the geologist who showed up for one case in I think the first season. I vote for Ms Hudson but suspect the actress is too busy and/or too expensive, or they've have had her back already.

So, basically, I think the plot is stupid and annoying but it might work out because of the characters. And honestly, this show's plotting is OK but it's really the characters that make it good. So I'm trying to let go of my annoyance and see how it turns out.

If they change Joan's character or she stops being a detective, I won't like that. Honestly, so far it's done more to Sherlock's character than hers, though, and that's making me more optimistic.

  • Love 9
Link to comment
tennisgurl

tennisgurl

I dont really like the baby plot, as it seems super random and annoying (why does every damn character on TV lately have baby fever out of nowhere?) but it has lead to some really touching Joan and Sherlock stuff, so I can let it go, more or less. 

The King of Bohemia finally makes an appearance! Kind of weird place to put him, but a fun shout out to the original stories. And his feast looked really tasty! 

  • Love 8
Link to comment
Clanstarling

Clanstarling

On 7/31/2018 at 3:09 PM, seacliffsal said:

I'm right there with you on both of these points.  However, I don't think a baby would take over the show.  Maybe Ms Hudson could come back and be housekeeper AND nanny (I loved that character).  On the other hand, maybe Joan would adopt an older child who needed a family.  It would be fun to watch an older child/teen start learning the skills of the trade.

I like the idea of Mrs. Hudson.

On 7/31/2018 at 11:13 PM, biakbiak said:

Two with both their skill sets and the great need for older adoptions I wish the entire focus wouldn’t a baby rather than even a slightly older child. I think it might end up there given her age, living circumstances and occupation but it just seems weird that babies are the only thing currently on the table.

Agreed.

On 8/2/2018 at 5:19 PM, Moxie Cat said:

I also think an older kid who's smart but maybe neglected by the system would be the ideal situation. A kid whom Sherlock could feel it was worth to mentor. As long as they cast a likable and not annoying little actor.

That said, I have a bad feeling this season may end up with a baby and the writers will have to work around it. Maybe after the show was renewed, they had a chance to rewrite the original season ending - not impossible.

I was surprised there hasn't been any talk of that. Babies get adopted fairly easily, older kids not so much. If I understand it, there's only one more season to go? Did they film the last episode prior to the renewal? If so, they could simply shift it to the series finale.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Moxie Cat

Moxie Cat

(edited)
2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I was surprised there hasn't been any talk of that. Babies get adopted fairly easily, older kids not so much.

I completely agree. Watson and Sherlock's lifestyle is far more suited to handling an older kid who probably wouldn't be dependent on them 24/7 (school, you know) and for whom baby-proofing a complex house isn't as important, so it's surprising Watson isn't considering that option. But it's probably hard to let go of the idea of having a baby when you're looking into adoption - I'm sure it would be for me. But who knows, maybe this is an evolving storyline. Maybe at some point, getting a baby won't work out, and Joan will come to the realization that there are a lot of older children out there and that might be a better solution all around.

AFAIK, this season was in the can before they got the renewal for next year. 

Edited by Moxie Cat
  • Love 2
Link to comment
paigow

paigow

10 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Babies get adopted fairly easily, older kids not so much. 

In the Law & Order universe, adopting babies legally is so difficult [high demand] that black market deals are pervasive.....

Link to comment
Vermicious Knid

Vermicious Knid

White babies are in very high demand. We saw Joan hosting a pregnant Chinese woman, so it looks like her first preference is for a Chinese/Asian baby. Adoption statistics.

CBS originally ordered only a 13 episode season, which pretty much everyone assumed meant that was it. Then they ordered the rest of the back end, and announced the renewal for a 7th season after only airing a few episodes. An 8th season may well be possible if the network is happy with it, and this is produced in-house so it makes them more of a profit. Having it run over the summer with less competition may turn out to be the best thing to happen.
 

Link to comment
marina707

marina707

On 7/31/2018 at 1:13 PM, Jesus Garcia said:

Now, watching this episode last night, I think that Elementary's writers might have decided to avoid the "hookup as the series’ fan payoff" altogether and move straight through to Joan and Sherlock having a life together as more than business partners -- which is what I would really consider as “the payoff” after watching the show for 6 seasons. I have watched Sherlock and Joan change because and for each other.

Sherlock is already on the record as stating that Joan is one of his loved ones; he’s admitted making special concessions / adaptations for Joan, he was devastated when Joan left the brownstone … and last night he comes right out to say that he would “lay down his life for her and for her child”: did everyone miss that Sherlock just made the supreme declaration of his love to Joan?

I'm all for that. Their relationship obviously isn't a typical romantic one (although I feel like there are definitely some slightly romantic elements to it), but there's a level of commitment there that isn't usually present in most platonic friendships. It's totally different than any other relationship on TV (at least on any show that I've seen) and I just find it completely fascinating to watch. It's definitely one of my favorite parts of the show.

On 7/31/2018 at 8:15 PM, Athena said:

I have been at best indifferent to the baby plotline, but I am really starting to warm up to it. Sherlock and Joan really care about each other. Even though Sherlock is the one being more verbal lately about how much Joan's happiness means to him, Joan considers Sherlock and the brownstone home. I love the support they have for each other and it's one of the best platonic love stories on television. I love the unconventionality of them living together with a child, but that child would be loved, amazing and would have Sherlock as a father figure. He may not be a parent, but Sherlock will be important to that lucky child's development.

I'm not a baby/kid person at all but I'm actually fine with the baby storyline, especially given the Sherlock/Joan scenes we've gotten so far because of it. On every show/movie I've ever seen, when the idea of raising a kid with a friend has been brought up, the character(s) in question were told it wasn't a good idea and they should wait until they found a spouse/conventional romantic partner to have a kid with instead. It's always slightly frustrated me because I've always been drawn to the idea of non-traditional/unconventional relationships/families, so the idea of them going in that direction here is really intriguing to me (even though, like you said, Sherlock may not officially be the kid's parent, he's still going to be a huge part of their life and development).

  • Love 4
Link to comment
jhlipton

jhlipton

On 7/31/2018 at 10:13 AM, Jesus Garcia said:

And heck, they can still hookup in a mid-credits scene!!! Why not???

Because it destroys the beautiful platonic relationship; that's why not!

On 7/31/2018 at 12:35 PM, AnimeMania said:

You can keep only ONE!!!!!!!!!!!    Tortoise vs. Baby THUNDERDOME!!!!!!!!!

"There can be only one!" thinks Clyde as he trips the guillotine!  #TortiseVsBabyHighlander

 

On 7/31/2018 at 6:46 PM, MisterGlass said:

Two things struck me during the hitman plot, one random, and one morbid.  First, it would be odd to have that many weapons hidden in a cabinet that had a pickable lock.

It was pickable by Sherlock.  That doesn't mean that ev en an average locksmith could open it.

3 hours ago, marina707 said:

there's a level of commitment there that isn't usually present in most platonic friendships.

There's a level of commitment not usually present in romantic relationships (cue my plug for Jake and Amy on Brooklyn 99)!

  • Love 3
Link to comment
fauntleroy

fauntleroy

I lost track of how they found the 2nd hitman - the insight was if the first one kept records to prevent blackmail, probably the second one did too. Cut to scene of 2nd hitman in interrogation room - whut? That was darn quick.

I am in the no baby camp, but an example worth looking at is the Miss Fisher mysteries, where Phryne who is about Watson's age adopts a street urchin or two with a refreshing lack of handwringing/angst, and they are integrated into the plots pretty seamlessly. Good model maybe. That's an Australian show though, a bit friskier than stodgy CBS.

  • Love 3
Link to comment
johntfs

johntfs

27 minutes ago, fauntleroy said:

I lost track of how they found the 2nd hitman - the insight was if the first one kept records to prevent blackmail, probably the second one did too. Cut to scene of 2nd hitman in interrogation room - whut? That was darn quick.

The hit-people kept records to keep their clients from turning them in and would reasonably keep tabs on their former clients just in case.  With that insight, the police and FBI leaked to various information that Cal Medina was going to cut a deal which would out the hit-man he used to kill the scientist.  So that hitman came to  New York to kill him before that happened.  The police were waiting for that to occur and arrested the guy once they saw him surveying Medina.

  • Love 3
Link to comment
quinni224

quinni224

(edited)
On 8/1/2018 at 3:06 AM, iMonrey said:

I too found the personal scenes between Joan and Sherlock much more engaging than the case of the week. One of the things you take for granted on this show is that everyone should know Joan and Sherlock are - well, Joan and Sherlock.  So when something like what happened with Joan's lawyer happens, you think "Doesn't he know who he's dealing with? You can't just dismiss Joan that way." We know it, Joan and Sherlock know it. Doesn't everyone else? I liked when she explained the situation to Sherlock, she said "We're us. It would be simple to break into his office and find the notes." It's kind of like they are super heroes and have secret identities the general public doesn't know about.

The case of the week was just too convoluted for me, and I've been having difficulty following them more and more this season. I also found that "incubus" weapon that sucks all the air out of your lungs and kills you especially disturbing and sick.

What do you mean by "finally?" Is this a character that's been mentioned before, or has he served some function in the books?

Has everyone else already noticed the crystal ball motif that runs though this show? I see so many of them sitting on the various desks of all the characters, from Gregson himself to the latest murder victim. What's up with that?

YES! Thank you iMonrey. I had noticed the crystal ball motif and then came across this forum while scouring the web to see what it was about. I am so glad I am not alone!

Amongst my research, I found this...http://www.studentsocculthistory.com/sphere-of-destiny.html...maybe this is the sneaky reference? 

On 8/3/2018 at 9:28 AM, basil said:

The big white thing is a paper lamp, made by NY artist Christopher Reiter.

Also, thank you Basil for allaying my curiosities about the paper lamp prop too. :)

Edited by quinni224
  • Love 1
Link to comment
basil

basil

Quote

Also, thank you Basil for allaying my curiosities about the paper lamp prop too. :)

You're welcome, quinni224, and thanks in return for the article on the Sphere of Destiny. I think you might be right regarding the crystal ball being a deliberate reference to Arthur Conan Doyle. It's one of the things I love about this show, the way they integrate canon references in the episodes. Also the way way they drop in odd little facts (the "Dutch reach", for example). I also really love their set design. Few people realise how much thought goes into such things. Reiter's paper lamp, for example, was supposedly originally rented, but had to be re-rented (or more likely, bought) when Elementary's pilot episode sold.

  • Love 2
Link to comment
Calvada

Calvada

I finally was able to watch this episode.  If this originally was to be the final episode (with the first order for this season of only 13 episodes), I thought this would have been a very moving ending to the series, with Sherlock declaring he would lay down his life for Watson and her future child in such a matter of fact way, which demonstrated how the show really has been a love story.  From where he was in episode 1 to Sherlock realizing and acknowledging his love for Watson was truly beautiful, and as several have said, not the type of love story we usually see on shows.  

  • Love 2
Link to comment
Sile

Sile

On 8/7/2018 at 8:56 PM, MisterGlass said:

I can accept that with a handwave.  But actually, I meant I'm surprised it wasn't a combination or keypad safe.

He (the decedent, whose name I've already forgotten) needed it to be discovered and opened as soon as possible.  Putting his framing plan into motion relied upon both the investigators learning that he was a hit man and them finding the incubus.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
quinni224

quinni224

On 8/12/2018 at 1:33 AM, basil said:

You're welcome, quinni224, and thanks in return for the article on the Sphere of Destiny. I think you might be right regarding the crystal ball being a deliberate reference to Arthur Conan Doyle. It's one of the things I love about this show, the way they integrate canon references in the episodes. Also the way way they drop in odd little facts (the "Dutch reach", for example). I also really love their set design. Few people realise how much thought goes into such things. Reiter's paper lamp, for example, was supposedly originally rented, but had to be re-rented (or more likely, bought) when Elementary's pilot episode sold.

No worries at all. Thank you for agreeing with me about the Sphere of Destiny. :)

I too love the way they integrate canon references in the episodes and the fun facts. I always come away from watching an episode feeling smarter. ;)

Your knowledge on the set design is impressive. Where did you learn it all?

Link to comment
quinni224

quinni224

On 8/12/2018 at 7:59 AM, MisterGlass said:

That is a fascinating artifact.  I wonder if it could also have been an inspiration for the palantir in Lord of the Rings.

Thank you. It is indeed.

I haven't read/watched LOTR but comparing the Sphere of Destiny's purpose "staring into the dark depths of the crystal was supposed to reveal images of both the past and future" and my quick google search of the concept behind Palantír "used for both communication and as a means of seeing events in other parts of the world or in the distant past", I'd say you're probably on the right track too. This is so fascinating. :)

  • Love 1
Link to comment
basil

basil

Quote

Your knowledge on the set design is impressive. Where did you learn it all?

I was a day worker on Elementary a few years ago, quinni224, and I have worked with Andrew Bernard on other projects.

  • Love 5
Link to comment
NYCFree

NYCFree

On 8/20/2018 at 10:16 PM, basil said:

I was a day worker on Elementary a few years ago, quinni224, and I have worked with Andrew Bernard on other projects.

How very cool! Also, thanks for sharing.

I desperately want to list my single family home in Riverdale as a location site. It seems like every week Elementary and Law and Order SVU have someone live in either my neighborhood, or a neighborhood like mine. Do you happen to know where would be a good place to list?

Link to comment
basil

basil

Quote

I desperately want to list my single family home in Riverdale as a location site. It seems like every week Elementary and Law and Order SVU have someone live in either my neighborhood, or a neighborhood like mine. Do you happen to know where would be a good place to list?

I do not know of how to list, but I'll ask around. I do know that they like to film places that are not crowded (Rockaway and Far Rockaway, Queens are common on Elementary, even if it says it's elsewhere). They can be picky, though. Unless your house is huge indoors, or you have an unique exterior/garden, TV/film crews may not want it. If they do, though, it can be quite lucrative. Good luck.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
roundtheworld

roundtheworld

Quote

I'm right there with you on both of these points.  However, I don't think a baby would take over the show.  Maybe Ms Hudson could come back and be housekeeper AND nanny (I loved that character).  On the other hand, maybe Joan would adopt an older child who needed a family.  It would be fun to watch an older child/teen start learning the skills of the trade.

I haven't been able to find a Joan thread, but this baby thing is really bothering me. There are SO many older children who need homes and many of those would really benefit from her background as a physician and sober companion. I wish that maybe instead of things ending up with a baby they came across a kid or teenager during a case who attached to Joan and took them in. 

  • Love 2
Link to comment
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...