S04.E03: The Harsh Light of Day

[Joe Hellandback]

The Good; Spike's back and the series is better off with him in it. Our first sign that Harmony survived graduation and is now a vamp. Great fight and some excellent comedy, especially love Spike's workers groaning when Harmony starts bleating on about France again. Also like Parker's complaining about guys who are so 'Dark and brooding, give me love'. Nice reveal of Spike

The Bad; None, good ep, best of season 4 so far

Best line; Buffy; 'Spike, with Harmony. What you lose a bet?' but I also like Willow (on Harmony being a vamp) 'She must be dying without a reflection'

Character death; nope, the guy Spike and Harmony bite at the party survives and we see

Spoiler

Asian Joe again in 'Pangs'

so the Scoobs obviously rescue him.

Tied up; Asian Joe chained to the wall.

Knocked out; Xander in the fight with Spike

Women good/men bad; The final scene with a broken hearted Buffy, Anya and Harmony all miserable having been dumped. Xander remarks that he's 'Actually turning into a woman as he's saying this' when hesitating before the offer of casual sex with a beautiful girl. But as he says 'Still more romantic than Faith'. Spike and Harmony have an abusive relationship but in fairness to Spike she seems just as bad as he is and even more manipulative.

Jeez!; Spike's 'trash-talk' with Buffy whilst fighting her (he should know better!)

Kinky dinky; Harmony may be dumb but she knows how to get what she wants. She hints that she and Spike have bondage, S&M and exhibitionist sex. Anya does a striptease for Xander (cue juice gag!) and brings black condoms for their coitus. Parker and Buffy have sex but he dumps her afterwards. Harmony seems to have a thing for Antonio Banderas. Spike comments that he loves syphilis more than he does Harmony. Xander dreams of being naked at the Walmart. Willow seems to want to know the details of Buffy and Parker's night of passion, not graphically but as a 'blurry watercolour' (reminiscent of Lily in HIMYM wanting to know about Robin's first night with Barney).

Calling Captain Subtext; Harmony wants to bite Willow. Maybe there was an underlying attraction between the 2 all these years? Parker suggests Buffy and Spike used to go out and she laughs.

Guantanamo Bay; The gang threaten Harmony to try and find Spike.

Scoobies to the ER; Xander is hurt in the final fight but not too badly. Willow needs a band-aid.

Questions and observations; Where season 4 kicks into gear really, quite marvellous. Willow becomes the 3rd Scooby to be bitten by a vampire (Buffy twice by Angel and the Master, Angel and Joyce by Darla although the latter is not a Scooby). Buffy still has the scar from where she was bitten but is that from The Master or Angel? Personally I never know what to make of Parker, Buffy seems to think their sex is the beginning of a relationship whilst it's casual to him. I don't think he's a bad guy really. Giles never locks his door and owns a TV which disappoints Oz who nevertheless seems to appreciate his vinyl albums just as Joyce did in Band Candy. Good music, especially like 'Lucky' (for the Buffy/Parker sex scene) and the interestingly titled 'Faith in love'. Asian Joe, the guy who is chained to Spike's wall is a recurring extra as a Sunnydale High School student (Harmony comments she used to have a class with him), you can see him in many eps but most prominently in Earshot where Buffy hears him thinking about being a 'software gillionaire'. Unfortunately the last appearance of Devon in the series although he's mentioned in Something Blue

Marks out of 10; 8/10, very good

[Spartan Girl]

Parker is a jerk. That is all.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎27‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 2:28 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Parker is a jerk. That is all.

Okay, I'm going to stick my head above the parapet and say, no he's not. He and Buffy have sex and she sees it as the start of their relationship. He doesn't, he sees her as a one night stand. She doesn't like that but it doesn't make him the villain, he's not Barney Stinson he's Charlie Harper (and Buffy's Rose?). 

[wendyg]

You may need to rewatch. Parker has a very specific schtick: he tells the girl (both Buffy and her successor) that he's been damaged, and it's hard for him to open up. Then, he appears to open up, the girl is flattered into thinking she's special to him, and *that's* why she goes to bed with him. He then tries this tack with Willow, who just laughs at him. This is most charitably described as deception. If he had said to Buffy, "We both like apples, wanna fuck?" and then Buffy took it as the beginning of a relationship, *then* you could say she was mistaken. In this case, however, he deliberately deceived her into thinking they were becoming intimate emotionally as a ploy.

[Joe Hellandback]

22 hours ago, wendyg said:

You may need to rewatch. Parker has a very specific schtick: he tells the girl (both Buffy and her successor) that he's been damaged, and it's hard for him to open up. Then, he appears to open up, the girl is flattered into thinking she's special to him, and *that's* why she goes to bed with him. He then tries this tack with Willow, who just laughs at him. This is most charitably described as deception. If he had said to Buffy, "We both like apples, wanna fuck?" and then Buffy took it as the beginning of a relationship, *then* you could say she was mistaken. In this case, however, he deliberately deceived her into thinking they were becoming intimate emotionally as a ploy.

Is it a ploy or is it real? We never actually know, Parker has become such a controversial hate figure over the years some of the myths surrounding him have become taken as facts.  He may be a 'player' but he doesn't necessarily deceive anyone. Maybe he just decided Buffy wasn't the one for him? I always think it's interesting the different take male and female fans have on the question, females wanting to burn Parker at the stake, males thinking they wouldn't trust Buffy with their bunny and a cooking pot.  

[wendyg]

I don't fall into either camp; but the deception of his approach is quite clear to me. I'd also point out that at no time did he say to Buffy, "You aren't the one for me." Instead he said he would call her later, and then left her hanging.

[Joe Hellandback]

29 minutes ago, wendyg said:

I don't fall into either camp; but the deception of his approach is quite clear to me. I'd also point out that at no time did he say to Buffy, "You aren't the one for me." Instead he said he would call her later, and then left her hanging.

I don't think it' clear, it's one way to interpret it. He hadn't called her yet, we don't know if he was going to or not. Maybe he didn't know how to let her down?

[Pallas]

As @wendyg has said above. Parker's mating imago was a type -- call it The Laurie, in honor of the sincere original. A faun; a beautiful, animated yet soulful boy of sorrow, acquainted with grief, who (because he was almost too brave and too sensitive) found it hard to speak his heart to anyone...yet now, with you...

He works this ploy along with his charrns in order to break down his mark's resistance to just getting laid. It trades on her desire to not only bed the desirable but protect the vulnerable, and to be appreciated in the whole. On her need to be seen as both good and exceptional, by others and herself. 

Parker wasn't the first to work a version of this ploy on Buffy. Not simply, "Go to bed with an angel and wake up with a demon," but playing on the fears and drives arising from her own sense of being set apart. 

"And you fall for it, every time!" 
 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Pallas

[wendyg]

My last word on this, because life is too short. I think we should trust WILLOW on this:

WILLOW
No it wasn't. He said that so you'd take
a chance and sleep with him. He's a
poop-head.

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎29‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 3:24 PM, Pallas said:

As @wendyg has said above. Parker's mating imago was a type -- call it The Laurie, in honor of the sincere original. A faun; a beautiful, animated yet soulful boy of sorrow, acquainted with grief, who (because he was almost too brave and too sensitive) found it hard to speak his heart to anyone...yet now, with you...

He works this ploy along with his charrns in order to break down his mark's resistance to just getting laid. It trades on her desire to not only bed the desirable but protect the vulnerable, and to be appreciated in the whole. On her need to be seen as both good and exceptional, by others and herself. 

Parker wasn't the first to work a version of this ploy on Buffy. Not simply, "Go to bed with an angel and wake up with a demon," but playing on the fears and drives arising from her own sense of being set apart. 

"And you fall for it, every time!" 
 

 

Forgive me who is the original 'Laurie'? Yes, it was a line straight out of The Playbook in order to get Buffy to sleep with him but hardly the worst thing in the world? (And Buffy does fall for it like an out of town co-ed who blunders into MacClarens) Beyond that, no harm no foul, this was just a casual thing for him but obviously meant more to her. But then he lacks her tragic backstory with the opposite sex which probably makes her a little more needy than he is.

I always say we should ask ourselves what if the gender roles were reversed, what if Buffy had a one night stand and the guy then starts mooning after her? Would you trust this woman with your pet rabbit? Especially after she was so jealous with Angel and Dru/Darla/Faith? 

On ‎29‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 6:00 PM, wendyg said:

My last word on this, because life is too short. I think we should trust WILLOW on this:

WILLOW
No it wasn't. He said that so you'd take
a chance and sleep with him. He's a
poop-head.

Yes to the former, no to the latter. Given how controversial this has been I wonder what we'll do when we get to a certain event in s6? And should we really take the word of Willow who cheated on Oz with Xander and offered her virginity to Oz to make Xander jealous? Not to mention what she eventually ends up 

Spoiler

doing to Tara?

Edited July 31, 2018 by Joe Hellandback

[Vanessa1214]

This whole thread reminds me of the episode of Friends where Monica goes on a date with "Paul the wine guy" and he tells her that since his wife left him, he hadn't been able to "perform" with anyone, but Monica miraculously brings it out of him! Then she finds out the next day from a co-worker that he used the same line on her. Monica thinks he was a jerk, but she's over it by the next episode. Difference between a sitcom and a drama, I guess.  

[Joe Hellandback]

21 hours ago, Vanessa1214 said:

This whole thread reminds me of the episode of Friends where Monica goes on a date with "Paul the wine guy" and he tells her that since his wife left him, he hadn't been able to "perform" with anyone, but Monica miraculously brings it out of him! Then she finds out the next day from a co-worker that he used the same line on her. Monica thinks he was a jerk, but she's over it by the next episode. Difference between a sitcom and a drama, I guess.  

Yes but Paul the wine guy was blatantly lying whilst we don't know that about Parker. If I recall Monica does break Paul's watch whilst Buffy smacks Parker unconscious. 

[Vanessa1214]

Yes, she breaks his watch and that's the end of it. I'm not saying either guy is "bad," I just thought it was interesting that it seemed like a very similar situation. I wonder how often it happens in real life.

Personally, I did meet a guy my first week at college after breaking up with a long term boyfriend (like Buffy) and I did have a (cough, cough... one night stand). In my case, it was a reaction to being away from home for the first time, sadness about my boyfriend, and wanting to fit in. I think Buffy may have been having some of those feelings, too.

I do believe that there are upperclassmen who look for vulnerable freshman girls. Absolutely. Parker falls into that category as far as I'm concerned. 

[Joe Hellandback]

21 hours ago, Vanessa1214 said:

Yes, she breaks his watch and that's the end of it. I'm not saying either guy is "bad," I just thought it was interesting that it seemed like a very similar situation. I wonder how often it happens in real life.

Personally, I did meet a guy my first week at college after breaking up with a long term boyfriend (like Buffy) and I did have a (cough, cough... one night stand). In my case, it was a reaction to being away from home for the first time, sadness about my boyfriend, and wanting to fit in. I think Buffy may have been having some of those feelings, too.

I do believe that there are upperclassmen who look for vulnerable freshman girls. Absolutely. Parker falls into that category as far as I'm concerned. 

Yeah but Paul the Wine Guy had blatantly lied to Monica and Ellen's friend Audrey (the irony of course that Clea Lewis had replaced Maggie Wheeler on Ellen freeing her up to be the incomparable Janice on Friends). You also have to look at it from the other way around, with the exception of RJ Buffy always has sex with guys who are older than her? Perhaps the vulnerable freshmen girls are looking for the Parkers of the world, at my school the hottest girls were always after the older men as CC explains in Reptile Boy.  

[Joe Hellandback]

20 minutes ago, nosleepforme said:

I think it's very clear that Parker manipulates Buffy into sleeping with him, and he's playing similar tricks with other girls -  in this episode with the girl that is sitting on the bench when Buffy confronts him and later in Beer Bad as well. What makes Parker such a tool is also that he just invests so much time into getting a girl to like him rather than just open up at the beginning about how his intentions are purely sexual and that he only wants to hook up. He invests quite a lot of time in Buffy actually - without any indication that he is only interested in sex - that it's no wonder that she is interpreting it as the beginning of a potential relationship. I mean, they started hanging out in the episode prior and I think probably spent an entire week together, in which Parker plays this vulnerable, soft puppy who is trying to establish an emotional connection with her.

 

Part of that is of course also that in the WB 90's Culture they didn't really allow for their storylines to represent any kind of hook-up culture, I wonder how sex would be treated in a new version of the show in 2018. Because back in the late 90s/early 2000s, it was definitely more portrayed as a sacred thing that should only be between two people who really love each other. I think casual sex has only become more accepted in mainstream television within the last decade or so.

Well, doesn't Buffy do the same with him? I suspect if Parker just said to Buffy 'Wanna be my one night stand?' she'd have probably shot him down, I think it's pretty clear he does like Buffy but doesn't see her as girlfriend material. She may resent it but that's how the game is played, he promises her nothing.  

It will be interesting to see the new series in the age of tinder, grinder, transgender controversy, safe spaces and hookup culture.   

[Pallas]

4 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Well, doesn't Buffy do the same with him?

No. 

And let's move on.

[lembergwatcher]

Years pass by and I still burn with desire to rewrite one pesky scene:
 

Quote

Xander : Ah, right. It's just we hardly know each other. I mean I vlike you. And you have a certain directness that I admire. But sexual interc-- What you're talking about, well--and I'm actually turning into a woman as I say this--but it's about expressing something. And accepting consequences.

Anya : Oh, I have condoms. Some are black.

Xander says nothing. He's got nothing to say.

Anya : I like you. You're funny, and you're nicely shaped. And frankly, it's ludicrous to have these interlocking bodies and not... interlock. Please remove your clothing now.
 

Xander says nothing, then hits Anya in the head with something hard (I still can't decide what it could be). Then drags the body away.

"Still more romantic than Faith" (c) - doesn't look even remotely romantic more than a decade later...

[Halting Hex]

Faith's a low bar to clear.  I mean, that wasn't rape, but it could have been. If Xander doesn't want Faith to steer him around the curves, what's he going to do about it?  Here at least it's Xander's choice whether or not he's "face to face for the actual event".

But yeah, it would be nice if Xander resisted having his bones jumped here.  Outside of BB&B, he's not so good with the "just say no".  Or maybe he just respects Buffy and Willow more than he does Cordelia, Faith, and Anya.

No homicide, though, please.  Xander's better than that.  Even if it is Anya.

[lembergwatcher]

No, no homicide, of course. She would survive. 1000-year old demons can't be killed like that.

21 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

Here at least it's Xander's choice.

And that's the worst part IMO.  

[Halting Hex]

2 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

1000-year old demons can't be killed like that.

She's human and "far more breakable" these days.

Edited August 19, 2018 by Halting Hex

[Joe Hellandback]

On ‎19‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 12:48 PM, lembergwatcher said:

Years pass by and I still burn with desire to rewrite one pesky scene:
 

"Still more romantic than Faith" (c) - doesn't look even remotely romantic more than a decade later...

Yeah, that is just SOOOOOO disturbing!

[Halting Hex]

In addition to everything I already hated about this steaming pile (as I once wrote on TWoP: "The Harsh Light of Day asks a very important question…'what if Innocence had been a piece of shit?'"), this pathetic rehash falls even more when Liam Duke points out in his review that Spike actually shows Buffy his invincible weapon, which of course makes it even easier for Buffy to promptly disarm him.

Then, once Spike is helpless and easily slain, Buffy instead stands around staring at the Ring of McGuffin, letting Spike make an easy escape.  You know…Spike!  The guy who tortured your precious Angel.  The guy who nearly killed your mom!  (Twice, actually.) The guy who took Willow and Xander hostage and was going to kill them…that Spike.  You'd think Buffy might have an interest in disposing of him (she did once pause in rescuing Angel to make sure Spike couldn't get away and congratulated herself on [she thought] killing him, so there's some precedent for Buffy trying to stop Spike), but I guess not.

Of course, as I tend to note, there's precisely ZERO evidence that Buffy has EVER cared about Spike nearly murdering Willow.  She left Willow to rot in that closet in School Hard, never once "think[ing] of others in a crisis" even when Joyce's words should have rung the "where's Willow [and Cordelia]?" bell.  She "punishes" Spike for assaulting and kidnapping and terrorizing W/X in Lovers Walk by…letting Spike stroll off because he gave her and Angel some soppy melodramatic bullshit relationship "advice".  And here she's too busy giggling at the idea of Harmony living without a reflection to show the slightest concern* about Harmony nearly draining Willow's blood, or anything so mundane.  Gah!

Spoiler

And the less said about the upcoming "Spike nearly rapes/vampirizes/murders Willow, and Buffy adopts him into the gang in the very next episode!" , the better.  But that's for later, of course.

*-to be fair, the script does let Willow call Buffy out on this:

Quote

WILLOW:  I felt [Harmony] was adjusting [to being a vampire], though.  You know, when the fang went in.

BUFFY:  Oh, Willow, I'm sorry.   It's not funny.  That must have been terrible.

But those lines were cut.  And I'm still pissed off. 

I'm also pissed off about that damned "wrap-up" scene at Giles's pad, where Hacky Jane Espenson makes Xander look stupid (he's the only one who hasn't figured out that Buffy is passing the SuperRing on to Angel) and then has Willow pre-empt what would be an eminently logical objection on Xander's part with that disgustingly patronizing "she's giving the Ring to Angel.  Don't make a fuss."  

Yeah, why on Earth should Xander "make a fuss" on Buffy deciding to possibly make fucking ANGELUS invincible?  Hell, maybe getting the Ring makes Angel "perfectly happy" (no more depriving himself because of vampiric weaknesses) and so she's killing two birds (and lots of people) in one stone, huh?

Quote

XANDER:  Great idea! Leave tons of firepower with the Scary Guy! —Revelations

But no, Angel's good now, "don't make a fuss".  Isn't this the same sort of myopic idiocy that got Kendra killed?  Just wondering.

"Don't make a fuss."  Oh, fuss off, Jane.  You lousy hack.

ETA: Hey, how come Xander is only now "discovering" that Giles has a TV?  Hasn't he been visiting Giles's pad for years?  (In Passion, he knew which weapons Giles kept at home, as opposed to at school.)  Giles didn't rescue his TV from the Library on Graduation Day, after all.

And, even within the episode, Jane establishes that Xander has been in the apartment regularly, helping Giles to re-shelve the books.  What, he never noticed the TV before?

But of course, Jane doesn't think about how the "re-shelving" sequence invalidates the "ooh, look a tv!" joke.  She's not interested in the re-shelving as establishing a dynamic between Giles and Xander or accounting for Xander's time or anything such as that…it's just set up for her "HA-HA, Xander is SO STUPID!" joke about the alphabet.  File Jane under "H" for "hack".

(Why is it a shock that Xander was trying to figure out if the books were organized thematically or by Dewey Decimal System or by era of publication instead of presuming Giles is simply filing everything alphabetically?  [Is that alphabetical by Author or by Title, G-Man?] 
"Alphabetical" seems to be a lazy way to file, actually.)

Edited May 6, 2019 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

Don't know what I hate the most about this ep:

• Buffy letting Spike escape (once again);
• Buffy not caring about Willow's weel-being (but why should she? Willow is not her boyfriend, after all. An it seems like Will is OK with this);
• Xanya, Xanya, Xanya (why couldn't Anya just walk into the night and never return after the events of said episode?? Is it so much to ask??).

38 minutes ago, Halting Hex said:

there's precisely ZERO evidence that Buffy has EVER cared about Spike nearly murdering Willow

Yeah. Just like Buffy has never cared about Giles and his feelings when it came to her precious Angel. Forehead killed your girlfriend and then tortured you for hours for pleasure? Screw it, he's a good boy now and you have to take my word for it! Just like Buffy didn't give a hoot about Deadboy nearly getting Xander killed in Enemies. If everyone (including Giles) turned a blind eye on Jenny's death and everything else, and accepted Angel back in the "family" and considered him a friend (like Willow did), why should Buffy care about what Harmony or Spike can do to her supposed best friend Willow? 

Spoiler

It's like Buffy knew all along about Spike becoming a "champion" or whatever several seasons later and the sun literally shining from his vampiric ass in the series finale.

[Halting Hex]

I really had forgotten how easily Spike escapes here.  I remembered G/W/X being caught unaware as Harmony makes her getaway, but none of them is a Slayer so they'd merely been warding Harmony off with crosses and the hole Harm vanishes down is (conveniently) right at her feet, and thus outside of their perimeter.

But Buffy has no fear of getting physically close to Spike (they'd just been fighting, after all) and she actually has him in an armlock, which is how she takes the Ring off of him.  But then Buffy goes straight into "oooh, Shiny!" mode, staring at the McGuffin while Spike sprints for ten feet or so, completely unimpeded, and toddles off, free to kill more people.

Quote

BUFFY:  Okay, remember vampires?  They walk by night…am I ringing a bell here?

—Nightmares

GILES:  But vampires hunt and kill.  It's what they do.

XANDER:  Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly.

—Angel

BUFFY:  Vampires are creeps.

GILES:  Yes, that's why one slays them.

—Ted

Hell, take it from the man himself.  (Buffy wasn't there, but Angel was; he might have told her later.)

Quote

SPIKE:  Now, I know you haven't been in the game for a while, mate, but we still do kill people. Sort of our raison d'être, you know.

—The Harsh Light of Day.  (Or maybe Innocence. One of the two…it's so hard to tell them apart!)

Spike's a killer.  He's killed a significant number of people, and he'll kill more.  Because Buffy lets him go while she's distracted by thoughts of Angel being safe and warm and…forgiving her?

Is that what this is all about?  Is Buffy still feeling that everything that happened "to" Angel is somehow her fault?  No matter how much Giles told her she needed to forgive Hissy-Fit James/herself in IOHEFY?  That if she gets Angel the magic McGuffin he'll forgive her for driving away his soul (after all, he kept saying they shouldn't…practically even as they were hitting the sheets) and getting all stabby with the sword and sending him to hell…and "making" him leave town (everyone said he had to go, for her sake…if she'd only been a better girlfriend, he'd still be here, right?) and he can come back and forgive her and everything will be okay, right?  And…fuck, this is probably about Hank on some level, too, isn't it?  Why did he leave her, what did she do wrong, why won't he come back, what can she to do help him forgive her?

God, she's really seriously fucked up.  And yet, this stupid episode, despite scene after scene after scene of Buffy blaming herself for Parker's lack of interest in anything beyond that one night (and maybe that threesome with her and Katie Loomis that he'd like to score if he wasn't such a wimp and could actually ask Buffy to do…for him, you know?  He's been hurt, after all…) and despite a fight scene that specifically turns on Spike taunting Buffy with the idea that she drove Angel away, won't actually look at Buffy's trauma (because if you shit on Buffy and Forehead's "perfect love", then you'll damage the spinoff, don't you know?), and just treats her as another Silly Girl (directly compared to Anya and Harmony, ffs!) who can't figure out why the boys treat her badly.  I guess men are just evil or something.

To be fair to Jane, the script does almost make an effort at pointing out the true issues:

Quote

WILLOW:  You've just had some really bad luck.

BUFFY: I don't know, Will. Bad luck just happens. I made this happen…the whole time, I kept thinking, hey, look at me with someone who isn't Angel. Look how much I'm not hung up on Angel anymore. Look how this is not all about Angel. God, how come I didn't see it?

But again, those lines were cut.  And so we're left with Buffy handing over the magic dingus to Angel as if it's his due ("He should have it"…maybe the Ring can protect Angel from low ratings?), rather than the desperate attempt to gain Angel's forgiveness that this might well be.  Sigh.

Spoiler

Which, of course, makes Angel's disposing of Buffy's gift almost instantly not merely rude as anything, but actually rather funny.

Quote

BUFFY (excited):  Angel!  Look what I got for you!  A magic Ring so you can be happy and safe and we can be together forever!  You'll forgive me now, right? Come home? I LOVE YOU SO MUCH!!! 

ANGEL (bored):  Ah, it'll probably just mess up my sleeping schedule  (Crushes the Ring)  Fuck off, already, would you?

Buffy pouts.

Heh.

(Fic idea that will NEVER happen:  Parker does convince Buffy to do the threesome…and now Buffy's freaking out because she liked going down on Katie a bit too much.  And she can't tell Willow, because Will will [heh, "Will will'] think Buffy's gay or something, and it will make rooming together awkward.  And of course Willow is so in love with Oz that she could never understand about Buffy's liking girls…)

Edited May 6, 2019 by Halting Hex

[lembergwatcher]

On 5/6/2019 at 9:59 AM, Halting Hex said:

it's just set up for her "HA-HA, Xander is SO STUPID!" joke about the alphabet

Well, oddly enough, no one is supposed to laugh at "ha-ha, Giles is so stupid" jokes after G-Man fails to identify an Aurelian symbol on a ring he and Buffy found in the cemetery (Never Kill a Boy on a First Date), or when he can't recognize some strange Nigerian mask on a bedroom wall in Casa Summers (Dead Man's Party). Even though Giles happens to be an experienced demon hunter with 20+ something years of experience... And we don't have to laugh at Buffy although she doesn't know who Emily Dickinson was/tries to kill a zombie with the stake...

[Halting Hex]

4 hours ago, lembergwatcher said:

[Giles] can't recognize some strange Nigerian mask on a bedroom wall in Casa Summers (Dead Man's Party)

But he can mock Joyce for not immediately identifying it, and somehow that's supposed to be funny.  

Quote

GILES (as Joyce): 'Do you like my mask? Isn't it pretty? It raises the dead!' Americans…

Way to blame the victim, clod.  It takes a lot make me defend Joyce, but honestly.

Back to this episode, the Watcher might have done a better job of spotting that (ridiculously convenient) hole that Harmony escapes down, and driving her away from it with his cross.  Willow and Xander, I can excuse getting caught flat-footed (although they should really know better as well), but Giles is the one who used to get paid for this gig.  Sloppy, Rupert…just sloppy.

Spoiler

Poor Xander, being around Harmony really destroys his brainpower, as we'll see with that goddamned slapfight four episodes from now.  You'd think he could at least track to her lair for later slayage, wouldn't you?

I mean, Xander's been able to fight alongside Angel (Prophecy Girl), help fight off Angel (Killed by Death), intimidate Angel (again, KbD), and track Angel to his house (Revelations).  (I grant you that Xander already knew where the Crawford St. Mansion was, from Becoming Part 2, but it's not as if he let Angel go and met him there later;  the way it's filmed, Xander was the stealthy stalker of the pair, for once.)  And Angel is supposed to be kind of a big deal.  

So for Xander to be spun by "Harm" is a little odd, IMO.  Perhaps Mercedes McNab's agent needs to call the WB and see why she doesn't have a show of her own, too?

Edited July 1, 2019 by Halting Hex

[Loandbehold]

3 hours ago, Halting Hex said:

But he can mock Joyce for not immediately identifying it, and somehow that's supposed to be funny.  

Quote

GILES (as Joyce): 'Do you like my mask? Isn't it pretty? It raises the dead!' Americans…

Way to blame the victim, clod.  It takes a lot make me defend Joyce, but honestly.

Now, now. To defend G-Man, he didn't mock Joyce to her face, and, really, he wasn't mocking her, but all Americans.*

And, lest we forget, he soon after chastises himself for leaving the keys in his car when he left to check on "the victim" lying in the road.

*OK, maybe not the best defense as those things go.

[catherinejane]

just watched this ep (on UK re-run) and isn;t it both Buffys' and xanders only second time of having sex? (as far as well know, Angel and buffy did it one night and Xander/Faith once, though both couples could have done if a few times within that session)

strange co-incidence.

Parker is just your typical sleasy guy picking up freshman, the sad thing is that buffy doesn't get the message quickly and acts quite pathetic about it.

 

I like Harmony here, glad to see her return, she is much better as a Vamp - and we need some Cordi style bickering (strange no one has mentioned her  at all, i know she is in LA but a brief "got a letter/postcard" may be good.

(its also amusing how a town with only one side of the tracks (early season 1?) has a school and suddenly a whole University. )

 

[Halting Hex]

Interesting point.  So Buffy and Xander got past "really, I thought you were a pro" and "That was great.  I gotta shower" on the same night, is that it?

Mmmmmm…convenient.  (Or hack writing, one of the two.)

I mean, it doesn't seem as if Jane's trying to draw parallels between Parker and Anya (is Anya a Detroit Red Wings fan, too?  Is Parker 1120 years old?), so…

[Joe Hellandback]

On 9/6/2020 at 2:20 PM, catherinejane said:

just watched this ep (on UK re-run) and isn;t it both Buffys' and xanders only second time of having sex? (as far as well know, Angel and buffy did it one night and Xander/Faith once, though both couples could have done if a few times within that session)

strange co-incidence.

Parker is just your typical sleasy guy picking up freshman, the sad thing is that buffy doesn't get the message quickly and acts quite pathetic about it.

 

I like Harmony here, glad to see her return, she is much better as a Vamp - and we need some Cordi style bickering (strange no one has mentioned her  at all, i know she is in LA but a brief "got a letter/postcard" may be good.

(its also amusing how a town with only one side of the tracks (early season 1?) has a school and suddenly a whole University. )

 

I still say we never know about Parker, to a degree he just thought this was a one night thing whilst Buffy goes all play misty for me.