Season One Talk: The Umbrella Academy

[steelyis]

31 minutes ago, Ruby Gillis said:

I also don't know what to think of Pogo in all this.  Is he like an adult human?  Because he seems to have a high level of intelligence.  Would he have been able to walk out and get a job as a mutant chimp?  Or was he a slave of Sir Reginald's who could never have left?  Did Reginald control his medical care?  There were so many points after the funeral when it would have been helpful for Pogo to speak up with what he knew.

Slaves can be intelligent; and Pogo was a slave. If he wasn't a slave then he was an indentured servant, which arguably isn't much better than a slave.

31 minutes ago, Ruby Gillis said:

In family tradition, Pogo also likes having no plan.  He told the children to run while he dealt with Vanya but then went in there without a weapon?

I think his plan was to make a last ditch effort to talk Vanya down and give the others time to flee, or die trying.

And considering he barely looked surprised when Vanya killed him, I think Pogo was prepared to die for his silence a long time ago.

31 minutes ago, Ruby Gillis said:

but then went in there without a weapon?  Reginald really should have installed a glass case in every room of the mansion with a tranquilizer gun labelled "Break In Case Vanya Goes Nuts" during her childhood. 

I don't believe Pogo would raise a hand against those kids under any circumstances.

[Anela]

On 2/21/2019 at 7:19 AM, Chaos Theory said:

Asking why didn’t Vanya take a step back and think things through logically is like asking someone why they didn’t act logically after their siblings put tnem in their worst PTSD nightmare and not give them a chance to explain or defend themselves.  

I am not saying what Vanya did was right.  But she wanted out of that room and unless you are saying she would have let her sibling keep her locked up forever then I can understand her wanting out whatever the cost.  

The problem is once she blew the prison every slight and lie against her came rushing back.  Every time she was excluded and demeaned.  By that point she was running on pure rage.

There is no stepping back from that.

Right. When Luther was hugging her, I actually said, "don't hurt her!" I was afraid that he was going to try to kill her, but then I realized he wanted to make her pass out. 

On 2/22/2019 at 10:13 PM, Ruby Gillis said:

This drove me crazy.  I was confused about the timeline as well.  Five came back 8 days before the apocalypse?  She seemed to start getting powers after missing one pill.  Great job Reginald, counting on a professional musician to be able to afford health insurance for the rest of her life.  There is a middle point between allowing someone to continue to be in the same situation in which they assaulted their nannies (down to the same tea kettle) and locking them in solitary confinement.   

I don't blame Vanya because she had a total mental breakdown.  She was not in her right mind.  It was full-blown insanity, although I don't think Ellen Page's acting was quite there.  Luther should have brought out a tranquilizer dart and her pills instead of choking her unconscious.  I enjoyed the series but think it might have benefitted from airing weekly.  I don't know how much time the writers had to sit with these ideas and see how they worked on screen.  

Like others here, I wish they had spent less time with ChaCha and Hazel.  Poor Ben didn't get a storyline at all.  Also agree on the shifts in tone.  They seemed to be going for very stylized comedy in a few scenes, like when they were all dancing separately in the 1st episode or Kate Walsh looking over the bathroom stall, but the rest of the time it felt like a standard superhero show.  

I found Allison's storyline really well done.  When she's driving in the car and all her "I heard a rumor..." moments flash through her head, you see how messed up she really is.  "I heard a rumor that you were in love with me."

The scenes with the doughnut shop woman, reminded me of Pushing Daisies. 

I agree with the tranquilizer dart bit, that was why I quoted this. And the fact that I missed a few bits, like Allison's memories. I need to watch it again.

On 2/23/2019 at 6:21 PM, steelyis said:

The worst part is Luther clearly made the decision with zero planning.

How did he plan to feed Vanya without opening the cell? Was she supposed to sleep on the floor for however long he decided to keep her locked up in there? How was she supposed to use the bathroom, because I didn't even see a bucket for her to use!

Luther's a fucking moron! None of them are all that smart, but Luther is almost too stupid to live.

I was lukewarm on Vanya, mostly because I'm not a big fan of Ellen Page's acting so it's hard for me to connect with the characters she plays, but by the time Vanya went BSoD I was cheering as she tore the academy down to its foundations. I was less thrilled about her killing Pogo, and causing Mom's death, but I understood Vanya giving zero fucks at that point.

I understood, too. I wondered how she was supposed to get food and drink, go to the bathroom, etc. I was hoping that seeing her siblings fighting Luther, would help in some way, but not by the time she blew out of there. So was she a split personality? She was talking to a little girl, and saying, "You aren't real". 

I must admit, I'd like to be able to flip someone, if they called me a stupid bitch. Damn. 

On 2/25/2019 at 10:42 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

Episode 10: 
  The team's plan to just jump at Vanya from different directions seemed ... dumb. 

So, Apocalypse #2 was different than the first: Number 5 was present, the siblings did not die at the school. Not sure if the moon destruction was different, but those waves of fireballs would not have left behind any nicely posed corpses like Apocalypse # 1.  I guess it is easier to accept that a chunk of the moon would fall directly down like an apple from a tree than get bothered with things like astronomy and physics. 

Will the series always be centered around stopping the apocalypse? 

I would like to have some sympathy for Vanya, but when she killed Leonard and Pogo, it was pretty deliberate and gruesome - and she had those murderous, dead-inside eyes of a psycho killer. (Leonard/Harold had a crappy childhood, too. Just saying..)

Overall, the entire premise of Umbrella Academy felt small. It seemed as if the characters' lives -  and the apocalypse - were limited to one city. And the cause of the world-wide apocalypse was just a member of the family. If Number 5 had bothered to compare notes with Pogo the chimp and robo-Mom, they could have saved a lot of time. 

Leonard was an abusive douchebag, who was only nice to her, as long as she did what he wanted her to do - just like her father. He wanted her to murder her entire family, so I was fine with what she did to him. It was just when she got home, and realized she couldn't trust them either, that she flipped entirely. 

If there's another season, that means that Eudora and Pogo will be alive again? I don't mind the idea so much, with this show, but it usually bugs me when they do that. Like Vampire Diaries, with this revolving door to the afterlife, so that they never really had to get rid of someone. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Anela

[Ruby Gillis]

22 hours ago, steelyis said:

Slaves can be intelligent; and Pogo was a slave. If he wasn't a slave then he was an indentured servant, which arguably isn't much better than a slave.

Sorry, I phrased that badly.  I meant specifically in how we should judge Pogo's responsibility in what happened to Vanya and the others as children.  I was thinking more of how he might think more like a chimp in terms of social hierarchy and might defer to Reginald for that reason.  

22 hours ago, steelyis said:

I don't believe Pogo would raise a hand against those kids under any circumstances.

But he definitely knew that the world would end and she would also die if she wasn't stopped, right?  From Reginald?  I'm not sure if it was implied or stated.  And he was willing to help Reginald and possibly Luther lock her in the room?  I'm wondering if the CGI was too expensive to have Pogo in more scenes.  If that's the case, I wish they had gone with a guy in a costume so we could see how/if he changed after Reginald's death.  

[peachmangosteen]

Quote

So was she a split personality? She was talking to a little girl, and saying, "You aren't real". 

Weren't the two girls the two younger versions of herself?

[blueray]

On 2/16/2019 at 11:58 AM, NeenerNeener said:

Robert Sheehan seems to have developed a type-casting problem, but I guess as long as it pays the bills....

I'm only halfway through the first episode. But as soon as he came on the scene I was like is that Nathan? Of course it was. But then it got to the point where he literally is playing the same character down to the powers. Nathan could talk to dead people too. I did stop halfway through but it seems to be going that way.

[treasaigh]

I watched this over a few days.  I enjoyed it, though some points bugged me, like many here.  Luther is my least favorite because he's an idiot.  I was going to point out other things, but honestly it still comes down to him being an idiot.

While I liked Allison for the most part, I am not in favor of the Allison/Luther pairing.  Nope.  Not here for the incest.  I think they aren't showing us much of the children as small children because we'd have to acknowledge how creepy that relationship is.  By only showing them together after they become horny teenagers it's easier to forget they were raised, clearly, as siblings.

After the connection between Five and Vanya in the beginning, I'm really sorry they didn't explore that relationship more.  Maybe if both Five and Allison tried reaching out to Vanya, she might not have snapped.  

I guess in the end the one thing that bothered me the most about the show is just how realistic they tried to be with how everyone interacted with regard to the abuse.  Clearly they were abused, and I don't blame them for repeating patterns.  Abused children often grow up to be abusers.  People are still traumatized for decades after the abuse.  Most people need some outside help to deal with the abuse. 

So I don't blame the children for not being able to break the pattern/cycle.  It's realistic that they made bad choices, lots of bad choices.  I'm just not interested in seeing nothing but bad choices being made over and over, in a piece of fiction.  They don't talk to each other.  They don't include everyone.  They don't listen to each other.  They aren't terribly helpful.  Allison seemed to be the only one who was *trying* to be better.

Vanya was at the bottom of the abuse ladder, and I don't blame her for latching on to Leonard or even not listening to Allison.  She just recently learned she has power, and a sister, who she resents, just dropped huge bombshells on her.  Of course she needed time to process, and she wasn't getting it.  Instead of trying to help her come to terms with everything, Allison is just pushing Vanya to leave when clearly Vanya is freaking out.  But I get Allison not feeling like they had time to wait.  So I get it.  It makes sense to me with these characters.  I just don't need this show to be *that* realistic when it comes to the cycle of abuse and PTSD.

Lastly, how stupid was Harold/Leonard?  He pushes her at the end, what did he think she was going to do???  She's a loaded gun with no safety, and he's not pointing her anywhere but directly at *HIMSELF*.  Of course she was going to kill him.  He betrayed her, lied to her, manipulated her.  And she just killed her sister, that he knew she loved.  I assume he was trying to break her so he could totally control her, but at that moment he was stupid.  He'd actually been pretty good up to that point at knowing when to push and when to hold back to get her to attach to him.  That's why it's even more stupid that he would make such a mistake at the end. 

[peachmangosteen]

28 minutes ago, treasaigh said:

By only showing them together after they become horny teenagers it's easier to forget they were raised, clearly, as siblings.

I'm not sure it's clear that they were raised like siblings tbh. Someone said that it seems like they were raised more like fellow soldiers or something and I think that's a possibility. In general, I don't think we really got a good enough idea of how they were raised in terms of how they interacted with/were taught to feel about each other. 

I still think Luther/Allison is kinda icky though.

Edited March 1, 2019 by peachmangosteen

[treasaigh]

11 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm not sure it's clear that they were raised like siblings tbh. Someone said that it seems like they were raised more like fellow soldiers or something and I think that's a possibility. In general, I don't think we really got a good enough idea of how they were raised in terms of how they interacted with/were taught to feel about each other. 

I still think Luther/Allison is kinda icky though.

I get what you're saying, but I think we can take them at their words if nothing else, and that is the fact they call themselves brother and sister.  There's no ambiguity there.  They are a *family*.  Yes, there is dysfunction. Yes, there is abuse and trauma and just plain old messed-upness.  But still... a family.  And a relationship between the two is icky.

Who knows, maybe it's realistic too.  How much could/did those children interact with others their age?  Maybe there was a forced closeness that resulted in even more dysfunction?

[Sakura12]

I can't imagine Reginald let them have outside friends, he wanted them to train. Plus their other schooling came from a robot and a talking monkey. They call each other brother and sister but they were raised more like student soliders. Their home is called the Umbrella Academy. 

However I wonder if Reginald is really their father since he appears to be an alien and all those women had spontaneous pregnancies. 

[SparklyBubbles]

On 2/21/2019 at 6:11 AM, AngelKitty said:

And then, did anyone notice a little girl on the bus when Vanya was going to the concert hall? I thought she looked like Hargreaves' wife from the beginning scene and she looked at the violin and smiled.

I saw that too! They showed her looking pointedly at the violin and Vanya, and I wondered if I was supposed to know who she was. 

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

However I wonder if Reginald is really their father since he appears to be an alien and all those women had spontaneous pregnancies. 

I really hope they don't go there because that would make Luther/Allison just full on gross with no ambiguity.

1 hour ago, SparklyBubbles said:

I saw that too! They showed her looking pointedly at the violin and Vanya, and I wondered if I was supposed to know who she was. 

I wondered about this, too. I can't tell if we were supposed to know what was going on there/see it as some kind of clue or if it was just nothing.

[Anela]

On 2/28/2019 at 9:32 AM, peachmangosteen said:

Weren't the two girls the two younger versions of herself?

I don't know. I wasn't sure if it was a visual of her talking to herself in her head, deciding that she was the worst, so she was just going to be evil, or if she saw someone else, like a twin. 

[Infie]

She started off talking to her younger self, which she saw as a reflection.  Then, as she resolved her internal conflicts and decided to become her fullest self, she was left facing her own mature reflection - it was HER in the driver's seat, not her younger selves. 

[festivus]

This is one of those shows that I wish we could have had episode threads for. Just so much going on that I won't remember all I want to say and I couldn't read the thread because I didn't want to be spoiled.

Loved all the actors in this with Klaus and Diego being my favorites. Klaus's story of him in Vietnam really kinda broke my heart. Robert Sheehan is a really good actor. Luther was my least favorite and made some dumb decisions but I figured that out of them all (and I include dead Ben in that), that he might be One but he was the most emotionally stunted of all of them. He stayed when they all left and then he was sent to the moon for four years. He seemed like a child to me. Whereas the actual youngest looking was a 58 year old man. The actor was awesome.

What more can be said about Dad than he caused all of this but yet he knew it would happen. Never got an answer for that or what was up with that glowing jar of stuff that he released. Seemed like Dad isolated Vanya and Luther the most and they were the ones that caused the apocalypse. Why?

Hazel and Agnes were sweet. Loved the show, I already want to watch it again. I want to get the comic and I hope the bowling alley scene is in there. And now I can't remember any of the other things I wanted to say. So yeah. Back to finish reading the thread.

[pootlus]

On 3/2/2019 at 10:52 AM, peachmangosteen said:

I really hope they don't go there because that would make Luther/Allison just full on gross with no ambiguity.

Same - I'm okay with Luthor/Allison but not if they're actually biological (half-) siblings.  I don't need to see Flowers in the Academy.

[Blue Plastic]

Only getting up to episode 4 so far but I don't mind being spoiled.  Anyway, I mostly wanted to pop in and register my EXTREME HATE for Hazel and Cha-Cha.  Maybe they change later, but as of episode 4 I absolutely DESPISE them.  They are SO annoying.  All they do is go around torturing people and shooting their automatic weapons while wearing those ridiculous masks.  The masks make what they do even more annoying.  Dancing around with their masks on in a burning building while consuming marijuana edibles?  And then they didn't die when the building exploded?  Plus they were awfully physically strong against the Umbrella people.  Luther should have been able to take them down with one good whack.

I also kind of hate Five since he's so smug.

[AngelKitty]

5 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

All they do is go around torturing people and shooting their automatic weapons while wearing those ridiculous masks.  The masks make what they do even more annoying.

When things like that bug me, I tell myself it's a comic book and that calms me down

[hoopznyo]

Just finished this and so many questions, especially not having read the comics. Did Reginald know what powers they had when they were born and he specifically wanted those seven? If he knew, wouldn't he be prepared for Vanya's powers? Did he give them their powers?

What about the other kids he didn't "buy"?

Kenny's mom? at the bowling alley, was also on the bus in an earlier scene, and was running out the bank when they were kids. Does stuff like this happen all the time around her and it no longer shocks her?

I also thought that Cha-Cha's donut with the sprinkles looked like the moon too. But, maybe that's a stretch.

Five reminds me of Jerry Orbach 

Edited March 3, 2019 by hoopznyo

[theatremouse]

1 hour ago, hoopznyo said:

Five reminds me of Jerry Orbach 

I love this observation. If the director had told that actor "play 58-year Five as Jerry Orbach" and we got the performance we got, I'd say that were flipping fantastic.

[Blue Plastic]

On 2/18/2019 at 9:53 PM, saoirse said:

I was inclined to dislike Allison, again, having read the source material, and Emmy Raver-Lampman really was able to make her a character that I could like (even though the concept of The Rumor was not very well developed as an adult here). I wish we'd seen a little bit more of her daughter - it felt like that storyline was only used when it would push the story forward, and ignored when it was convenient.

Allison didn't seem to be doing anything about even scheduling the therapy she was supposed to get in order to be allowed visitation with her daughter.  She was always all, "I'm a PARENT!"  and "I have to get back to my DAUGHTER!" but not actually doing anything to improve that situation.

On 2/19/2019 at 10:03 AM, theatremouse said:

So unless Reginald had methods for knowing what their powers were before they could walk or talk, the numbers couldn't really be reflective of their power and importance. I thought the numbers reflected the order in which he obtained the babies, but because he always called them by number, they, as children, sort of manifested the hierarchy. Other than with Luther and in sending him on the mission that got him half-dead, the concept of being "my number 1" and just being named number 1 didn't seem to be throughline. It seemed like something they leaned into as they got older.

The kids wouldn't necessarily know that they had been numbered from the beginning.  I think Vanya being labeled #7 and being billed by Reginald as "completely ordinary" would impress upon them the idea that Luther is best and then the worthiness descends from there to no powers/not included/worthless.  It was another form the emotional abuse took.  Maybe the "middle children" 2-6 didn't take the numbering system as hard as #1 and #7, but it was abusive and I think Luther and Vanya did assume that the ranking meant something about their worthiness to their father.

On 2/21/2019 at 4:07 AM, moonshine71 said:

Such a weird vibe overall that's never mentioned, placing it in a fictional 2019 where computers and cell phones don't exist. I see the comic was set in 1977, so they had to choose either setting it in that era(probably increasing the budget to make many things period accurate), setting it in this alternate universe 2019, or making some big story changes to accommodate for technology.

Personally I would have preferred the setting to be in the 1970s or even 1980s or early 1990s.  It's too bad if they didn't want to do the work to present a past decade accurately because having it set in an alternate 2019 makes it much less believable to me.  This is just my opinion and I know others don't mind, but I just can't get with the idea that all other technology development proceeded as it did in real life but then just kind of stopped.  Nobody developed computers and communications technology, really?  Of course it's supposed to be a fantasy setting so you can do whatever you want, fine, but I just can't believe there wouldn't at least be some computer technology going on AND that Reginald had advanced tech such as robots and English-speaking, clothes-wearing chimps but neither he nor anybody else developed a computer language or anything.  Just can't do it.  ESPECIALLY because the only reason there's an alternate computerless 2019 is because the writers didn't want to deal with adjusting the plot for cell phones and were too cheap to try a realistic 1970s/1980s setting.

On 2/21/2019 at 7:54 AM, Sakura12 said:

To me it didn't look like Reginald put any effort into helping Vanya control her darker impulses. All he wanted was perfect soliders/super heroes and Vanya didn't fit his agenda so he gave up.

Yes.  There were so many options Reginald could have gone with to control her without depowering her completely AND isolating her and telling her she was nothing.  Of course the plot wouldn't get to The White Violin without all that, but it's sad.  He could have suppressed her powers until she was old enough to be taught that killing people because you dislike them is wrong and that she can have social interactions that are beneficial to her, not just others, if she treats others as she would want to be treated.  She could have learned to use her powers responsibly even if she did have some kind of sociopathy, if only she had been raised by someone who understood that.

On 2/21/2019 at 4:51 PM, SnoGirl said:

Also-I dont want to repeat the discussion on Reginald, but why didnt he use Allison to dampen Vanya’s powers or even say somethings like “I heard a rumor you never want to kill someone OR you want to learn how to use your power OR you are a happy person.”

Yes!  He could have gotten Allison to make Vanya think her powers were weak, and then she could have been trained more easily.  Or had Allison plant the idea in Vanya's mind that hurting people is unpleasant and to be avoided.  Something, anything!

Still despising Hazel and Cha-Cha!  There is nothing that would or could make me not hate them!  I mean, it's not keeping me from watching but there's a lot of FF when they come on screen.  There's been way too much screen time spent on them and WAY too much time at the stupid donut shop.  Maybe if the Commission had been revealed a little sooner I wouldn't have been as annoyed by Cha-Cha/Hazel.  But having so much time spent on them acting so stupid and just shooting up everything for some Mysterious! reason just grated on me.

I thought I would hate Kate Walsh in this (because of Grey's Anatomy and Private Practice), but then I remembered what an excellent job (IMO) she did in "13 Reasons Why" and she didn't bug me as much.  It was an interesting character but still not fleshed out enough.  Why do they go around killing people to prevent other historical events from happening but the apocalypse is a-okay?

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, Blue Plastic said:

\Why do they go around killing people to prevent other historical events from happening but the apocalypse is a-okay?

I don't think they were doing it to prevent historical events from happening; I believe it was actually to ensure they did happen, so trying to make sure the apocalypse happens made sense.

I liked Hazel and Cha-Cha a lot at first, but I grew tired of how much screen time they ate up. The Hazel and Agnes relationship was lovely though and I did like it.

Edited March 3, 2019 by peachmangosteen

[theatremouse]

Right, they were trying to ensure the things that "were supposed to happen" always happen. Apparently they had some sort of master list of stuff that can vary and stuff that should not.So the time police would go around saving or killing whomever, depending on what they were trying to force to always happen.

[Zanne]

What I've been left wondering about is all the children that Reginald did not adopt. Are there 30+ super-powered people out there with no training in their gifts? Are they secretly heroes or villains? Did they have no powers and he knew that which is why he never sought them out? I want to know about them!

[blueray]

1 hour ago, Zanne said:

What I've been left wondering about is all the children that Reginald did not adopt. Are there 30+ super-powered people out there with no training in their gifts? Are they secretly heroes or villains? Did they have no powers and he knew that which is why he never sought them out? I want to know about them!

I was thinking that too. Possible storyline for season 2, assuming it gets one.

I just finished it. I ended up mostly binge watching it. I agree with those who have said the whole thing with Venya could have been stopped if they just treated her better. He could have helped her realize why killing the maids was bad and with some assistance with the medicine help her mature enough to learn how to control it properly. As well as just simply included her in everything (he could have done this regardless if she was on the meds or not). Of course he honestly abused all of them.

Kuis was probably my favorite however this maybe because he's still Nathan to me lol. I liked most of the other siblings as well. I also found the agents really annoying. They took up way to much screen time as well as the tone not really fitting with the rest of the show. I also wish they spent more time dealing with the time company thing as that was more interesting.

Lastly, I was very confused on when this is supposed to be taking place. At first I thought the early 90's because nobody had cellphones but there was computers. Alison uses one in the library but doesn't own one herself? However, there is also references to 2019. I think they should have just suck with early 90's to eliminate cellphones. Because if they existed the cop friend would have lived as she would have reached him instantly.

Anyhow, great show. I hope for a second season.

[Blue Plastic]

1 hour ago, blueray said:

Lastly, I was very confused on when this is supposed to be taking place. At first I thought the early 90's because nobody had cellphones but there was computers. Alison uses one in the library but doesn't own one herself? However, there is also references to 2019.

I thought that was just a microfiche viewer, not a computer.

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't think they were doing it to prevent historical events from happening; I believe it was actually to ensure they did happen, so trying to make sure the apocalypse happens made sense.

Okay, that makes more sense.  But then what was Old! Five going to do when he was watching JFK's motorcade?  I thought maybe he was there to kill Lee Harvey Oswald.  Maybe The Commission thought JFK would do something that would lead to the apocalypse so they wanted him to survive his assassination attempt.  I might have to go back and look at that scene.  Maybe I misunderstood what historical event it was supposed to be - I wasn't completely paying attention to every second TBH.  But it did look like he was there to shoot someone just as the event was taking place.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Blue Plastic

[theatremouse]

I thought that scene was implying Oswald didn't do it; Five did. Wink wink conspiracy theory, etc.

2 hours ago, blueray said:

I was very confused on when this is supposed to be taking place. At first I thought the early 90's because nobody had cellphones but there was computers. Alison uses one in the library but doesn't own one herself? However, there is also references to 2019.

I think they were trying to make a stylistic choice, very similar to Riverdale and Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, where it's implied it takes place in the present, and has some elements of the present, but all the styling (and vehicles) looks decades old. Different here since it looked mostly like late 80s early 90s, not the 50s-ish 60s-ish vibe of those two other shows. But it's a similar choice by the production.

The difference is (as far as I recall) those other shows that do that go out of their way not to mention the "current" year in show, and this one explicitly mentioned now being 2019 and the children being born in 1989 multiple times. I think the general premise lands on: this is an alternate universe/alternate timeline in which that styling happens in 2019 instead of 1989. I think it's easier as an audience to intuitively accept that if there are not specific years mentioned because then you don't need to deal with the cognitive dissonance of what you associate with the specific years, but I also understand why, for a story involving time-travel, there were good reasons to mention explicit dates throughout the story.

[Yookeroo]

2 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

I thought that was just a microfiche viewer, not a computer.

Okay, that makes more sense.  But then what was Old! Five going to do when he was watching JFK's motorcade?  I thought maybe he was there to kill Lee Harvey Oswald. 

I thought he was there to make sure JFK was killed.

[tennisgurl]

11 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I think the general premise lands on: this is an alternate universe/alternate timeline in which that styling happens in 2019 instead of 1989.

Thats what I assumed right away, this is an alternative universe, where technology and style went in a different direction than it did in the real world. Possibly 1989 was the point of divergence from "our" timeline, when the babies were born, which is apparently common knowledge. So we have private space stations on the moon and lifelike robots (even if just the Hargraves had those) and a 90s where a group of super-powered kids were celebrities, but also with computers from the 80s in the library, and no cell phones, like technology just diverged at some point. Its also, as others have said, probably just to create a retro vibe to give the show more of a unique feeling to it, both for the style of dress of the characters, which is sometimes rather anachronistic, and using lots of cool or funny old technology, without actually having to write a period piece.

I too want to know what happened to the other kids who didnt sell their babies to some creepy old guy. Are they superheroes? Super villains? Normal people? It might be fun if a bunch of them came together to become a super villain team, except they're all super great at everything and work together perfectly and all totally have their powers nailed down.

Edited March 4, 2019 by tennisgurl

[peachmangosteen]

9 hours ago, Yookeroo said:

I thought he was there to make sure JFK was killed.

Same.

11 hours ago, Blue Plastic said:

I thought that was just a microfiche viewer, not a computer.

That's what I thought as well.

For anyone who has read the comics: do the other babies that were born that day ever come into play?

[Stardancer Supreme]

I loved this show. Being the comic geek that I am, I will probably get the source material as well.

I also wondered about the other babies born that day.  Reginald knew of 43 suspicious births but only got 7 of them?  I fully expected Harold/Leonard to be one of other 36! But he just had the misfortune of his mother dying in childbirth and his father becoming abusive.

Nitpicks:

I didn't like the way that Klaus just dropped into someone's barracks dressed oddly clutching a briefcase and they just waved him in. "Get dressed! Shoot Somebody!"

Speaking of the briefcase, wouldn't the Commission know when one of them are destroyed? They knew about the unauthorized trip...

Klaus could have told his siblings about Ben much earlier. You have a brother who speaks to the dead; drugs or no drugs, you should have taken him more seriously.

Allison giving Luther the side eye after Klaus dropped the sex with the Rave girl tidbit.  Honey, you have a whole husband and child! Why be scandalized at your brother/crush?

Speaking of Luther, I would have bought the ape-like appearance more if the hair was less wild.  He could have shaved.

Can't wait for Season 2!

[festivus]

4 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Klaus could have told his siblings about Ben much earlier. You have a brother who speaks to the dead; drugs or no drugs, you should have taken him more seriously.

Yeah he probably should have but his whole thing is avoidance; hence the drugs. Also I guess it's been a while since these guys have seen each other. That being said, them not believing him was the only thing I really side-eyed in the whole show. Like, you people have powers, there's a talking ape and a robot in the mix, your brother came back from the future 17 years later still looking like a 13 year old and you just don't believe Klaus is talking to Ben and that maybe he can do things? I don't care if Klaus is a junkie. Just no. o_O 

I don't mind the lack of computers or cell-phones even though it's 2019. May be because I'm old and so many things I've read and watched over my life don't have them. I'm also fine with going for alternate universe just so the writers don't have to deal with the problems they would cause for the story. While it would have been cool if this was set in the 80s, I can see why they didn't do it. It's going to eat up more of the budget to get it right and it looks like they wanted to use that for the music. I'm fully on board with that because the music just made this show even better. Setting it in the past would also limit your music choices although they did use a lot of old stuff. I would have preferred the originals on some of the stuff like INXS but they did get Fitz and The Tantrums in there so that's another point for being set in 2019. Maybe next season we can get The Struts.

[iMonrey]

I just finished this yesterday. I'm not usually into the whole comic book genre but I found this more accessible than a lot of comic book fare and pretty easy to follow. That said, there were some things I had to look up on the internet to understand, so the show didn't do a great job of explaining things to viewers who weren't familiar with the comic books. 

I'm not sure how I feel about the ending. I love all things time-travel and didn't mind the "reset" in the middle of the season. But the ending left me moaning. It didn't feel like a finished story.

I have to wonder about the logistics of the moon exploding like that. Would it really vaporize earth the way it was depicted here? I can understand large chunks of it perhaps knocking the earth out of its orbit and doing widespread damage but why was the surface of the earth being incinerated like that? 

[blueray]

Quote

Klaus could have told his siblings about Ben much earlier. You have a brother who speaks to the dead; drugs or no drugs, you should have taken him more seriously.

I never got the impress that he hadn't told them that he had seen Ben. They already knew he can talk to dead people, so this wouldn't have been surprising. The shock was that Klaus was able to let Ben actively move something and Ben's ability still worked. Klaus tried to explain this but they didn't believe him, mainly because they were preoccupied about something else, and I'm not sure they were really listening to him.

Edited March 4, 2019 by blueray

[meep.meep]

So was the serum they gave to Luther to save his life, how Pogo ended up the way he was?  

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

Allison giving Luther the side eye after Klaus dropped the sex with the Rave girl tidbit.  Honey, you have a whole husband and child! Why be scandalized at your brother/crush?

That drove me nuts! It was just so nonsensical.

28 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

So was the serum they gave to Luther to save his life, how Pogo ended up the way he was?  

I kept wondering that, too.

[Blue Plastic]

20 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I thought that scene was implying Oswald didn't do it; Five did. Wink wink conspiracy theory, etc.

Some may enjoy that nod to the conspiracy theories surrounding JFK's assassination but I just roll my eyes.

1 hour ago, meep.meep said:

So was the serum they gave to Luther to save his life, how Pogo ended up the way he was?  

So maybe Pogo used to be fully human?  That's a horrible thought.  That would make Reginald even more of a monster than he already seemed.

I couldn't understand why injecting Luther (or anyone) with chimp serum would rescue him from the brink of death.  A blood transfusion or Rapunzel's magic tears?  Sure.  Chimp serum?  Not so much.  Well, okay, chimps are supposed to be a lot stronger than a human so maybe that's why.

[theatremouse]

I thought they injected him with whatever so his body could take what they were about to do to him, which was something very close to an...everything but his head/brain transplant? Like extra fancy alien anti-rejection drugs. Not that they injected him with stuff and he then turned more ape-ey as a result of the injection. Now I'm not sure.

[meep.meep]

Hence my question.  Pogo seemed to have tears in his eyes when he was handing over the syringe of serum.  And Luther was definitely non-apey before, and decidedly apey afterwords.

I would love to share a moonlit rooftop dance with Tom Hopper.  If they need me to step in sometime that is.  I've seen him in a lot of things, and that was the rare time that he actually got to smile.

[Blue Plastic]

59 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

I thought they injected him with whatever so his body could take what they were about to do to him, which was something very close to an...everything but his head/brain transplant? Like extra fancy alien anti-rejection drugs. Not that they injected him with stuff and he then turned more ape-ey as a result of the injection. Now I'm not sure.

Well, when Allison needed a blood transfusion, Luther offered to donate but Pogo said it wouldn't work as Luther's blood was closer to his (Pogo's) than Allison's.  I took that to mean that the serum itself turned Luther's upper body into a chimp/human hybrid.  And it must be a change on a cellular level, not just a cosmetic appearance, if it altered his blood composition.

[Stardancer Supreme]

3 hours ago, meep.meep said:

So was the serum they gave to Luther to save his life, how Pogo ended up the way he was?  

I would say that the serum was made from Pogo's plasma. 

[ShellsandCheese]

I really enjoyed the series but I thought Ellen Page was the weakest link in the cast. I'm sorry but the actress playing Vanya needed a little more oomph and Page was just doing her usual emo hipster schtick. She was my least favorite character, and I was hoping by the third episode that she would just go away, lol. They had a really jacked up childhood; they had a robot for a "mom" for goodness sakes and a talking chimp as a butler. Their dad purchased them and turned Number One / Luther into a partial ape. And Vanya was all woe is me, dad always told me I was so normal and I wasn't special. Truth is Vanya was simply someone who couldn't hack it in real life. And Ellen Page was probably the worst possible actress to play the character. 

[LadyPenelope]

I’ve just finished watching - loved the whole thing and can’t wait for season 2, but I too couldn’t bear Vanya. She was just so dull throughout, which makes sense for somebody whose defining characteristic is ‘ordinary’, but wasn’t hugely fun to watch. 

However, I might be the odd one out here because I loved Luther - I thought he was utterly adorable and all the little moments of him trying to fit into small spaces made me very happy. I liked all of the others - I wasn’t sure about Diego to start but the stuttering and his relationship with his mother won me over - actually, I was on board with all of the relationships - loved Luther and Allison, loved Hazel and the donut lady, loved Five and Dolores (I was impressed by how expressive that mannequin was in their final scene!). I think I just loved the show. Except Vanya. Oh, and douchebag Leonard.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S1.E7 quotes

Quote

Reginald: Chasing something unattainable is a recipe for a lifetime of disappointment and resentment.

Allison: Do you have any idea how insane this sounds? 
Five: You know what else is insane? I look like a 13-year-old boy, Klaus talks to the dead, and Luther thinks he's fooling everybody with that overcoat. Everything about us is insane. It always has been. We didn't choose this life. We're just living it.

Allison: Be careful, okay? We don't know what Peabody's capable of.
Diego: Yeah, he didn't seem dangerous when I first saw him. Looked kinda scrawny.
Allison: Yeah, well, so are most serial killers and mass murderers. I mean, look at [Five].
Five: Thanks.
Diego: Good point.

Diego: So what's this guy want with Vanya?
Allison: I don't know. How about we ask him after we kill him?

Diego: Spread out. Yell if you, uh you know, you're in trouble.
Five: Ah, inspiring leadership.

Allison: Guys, you need to see this. All our faces are burned off.
Diego: Well, that's not creepy.

Leonard: You spend your whole life trying to forget about the crap you went through as a kid and then the second you step back in, you feel just as insignificant.

Allison: We should have taken him to the hospital.
Five: A kid with a shrapnel wound might raise some questions.
Allison: Yeah, well, so does the murder shrine in Harold Jenkins' attic.

Diego: They're here for me. They think I did something.
Allison: What do they think you did?
Diego: Murder. 
Allison: Did you? 
Diego: No, no, no, of course not, okay? Why would you ask that about me, anyway?
Allison: I mean, you do carry knives with you everywhere.

Reginald: You children like to blame everything on me.
Klaus: Well, you were a sadistic prick - not to mention the world's worst father.

Cha Cha: Be sensible here. We have a great job, the best job. We get to visit exotic places, meet new people, and then kill them.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Wow, Leonard/Harold's lifelong obsession with the Umbrella Academy is seriously creepy. Did he pay those guys outside the restaurant to provoke Vanya or was that just a happy coincidence? I have a feeling that this is going to more guilt than she can bear. It's one thing to have powers but it's another to hurt or kill people without meaning to (there was way too much blood on the wall for that one guy to still be alive).

Awww, I loved that seeing drunken Luther was enough to get Klaus a little sobered up. Loved Ben staying with Klaus and encouraging him to help Luther. I wish the others could see Ben too.

But damn, Reginald killed himself just to get the band back together? And how did he know the exact date that the apocalypse was coming?

So now we know that the apocalyptic eyeball belongs to Leonard/Harold! But what is his end game? In trying to harness Vanya's powers does he think that he can get her to destroy the rest of the Umbrella Academy as his revenge for not being allowed to be part of the group?

Edited March 5, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1.8 quotes

Quote

Agnes: And over here is just two miles from a vegan doughnut shop.
Hazel: Why would anyone do that to a perfectly good doughnut?

Five: Our whole lives, he's been telling us we'd save the world from an impending apocalypse.
Klaus: Yeah, but I always thought he just said that to scare us into doing the dishes.
Five: Me too.

Five: Where have you been?
Diego: Jail.

Klaus: Maybe [Diego and Luther]'ll brood each other to death.

Diego: A little hard to trust anyone who wears corduroy.

Hazel: If you only had two days left to live, where would you go?
Agnes: Well, that's a tough one. Can I re-materialize there instantly? Or am I limited by the constraints of modern-day air travel schedules and earthly physics? 
Hazel: That's a valid point.

Luther: Can you go any faster?
Five: Ask me again and I'll burn you with the cigarette lighter.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Holy crap, did Vanya really just kill Allison? Leonard/Harold's gleeful look told me all I need to know about his crazy ass. Apparently he wants Vanya to kill all of her siblings so he can get revenge for Reginald rejecting him (as if it's somehow their fault that their dad was a dick to him).

I'm still not clear on what Vanya's actual power is.

And once again we learn what a horrible father Reginald was. First he yells are her for being insolent aka not immediately obeying his orders then he locks her up and makes her sister use her powers to tell her that she's ordinary. Great parenting there, Reggie.

Poor Agnes. I hope she doesn't end up being murdered by Cha Cha. It's not her fault that Hazel fell in love with her. Burning down the donut place was unnecessary. Look at all those donuts going to waste, Cha Cha!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S1.E9 quotes

Quote

Ben: I'm tired of watching you wallow in self defeat.
Klaus: Then avert your gaze.

Klaus: You just Patrick Swayzeed me!

Hazel: Hey, old timer.
Five: Do you have my sister? And if not, would you like a margarita? You're here to kill me?
Hazel: Oh. Shit. Sorry. Old habits. Well, I can understand why you might feel that way, you know.
Five: Well, you attacked our house, tried to kill my family, and kidnapped my brother.

Hazel: If you never time traveled, you never got caught up with the Handler, what would have happened?
Five: I guess I would have grown up to be an emotionally stunted man-child like everybody else around here.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Leonard/Harold was making my skin crawl with that stereotypical abusive and manipulative behavior: "I'm the only one on your side who understands just how special you truly are. I'm the only one who ever accepted you for who you really are." UGH. So disgusting. I can't say I'm sorry that Vanya killed him. After stalking her and lying to her about everything and then trying to turn her against her family so that she would only need him, he couldn't get off my screen fast enough.

When Luther hugged Vanya, I knew it was all a ploy. There's no way he would let anyone get away with harming his precious Allison. Locking Vanya up was stone cold. And he somehow made it even worse when Allison told him to let Vanya out because it was her own fault and then Luther refused to let her by. Why does he get to make the decisions? Just because he's larger? Klaus, Diego, and Allison were all saying that Vanya should be let out. That's three to one, but somehow Luther gets his way? Fuck that.

I'm looking forward to Klaus embracing his gift and learning to Swayze with Ben some more!

Looks like the shit is really going to hit the fan now that the Handler is back!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

S1.E10 quotes

Quote

The Handler: Look at the two of you. Given a one-day assignment to eliminate Number Five and instead, you kill a tow truck driver, a cleaning lady, and a cop, burn down two buildings, and bring unwanted attention on yourselves and the Commission. What's worse is Five is still alive, on the loose, and trying to stop the apocalypse. Makes us look like a gang that can't shoot straight. Now, maybe I'm not seeing the whole picture, but I think and this, it's just a suggestion but I do think an explanation of sorts is owing.
Cha Cha: Five is not working alone. He has backup.
The Handler: His family? You're saying that you both are no match for a litter of emotionally stunted siblings?

Luther: The concert starts in 30 minutes. 
Diego: All right, so what's the plan? 
Luther: Well, I think that, uh, we go to the Icarus Theater.
Diego: That's a location, not a plan.

Diego: What's the worst thing that can happen?
Five: You're looking at it - a 58 year old man inside a child's body.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I laughed so hard when the siblings were being attacked at the bowling alley and Klaus grabbed that kid's birthday cake. But poor Klaus - what is it going to take for anyone to ever take him seriously? Luther is always so dismissive of him. Then again, he was across the street getting a burrito when he was supposed to be the lookout so there's that.

I know we are not dealing with the real world at all here, but if someone just stood in the middle of the aisle while I was at the theater, I would be super annoyed. You're blocking my view, Allison - so rude!

And in other real world complaints - when was the last time that you saw an ad or poster for the symphony with a photo of the first chair violin?

Gawd, Luther's constant need to do what he thinks is best for Allison grosses me out. When he agreed to her plan to go into the theater by herself only so Allison could distract Vanya, I was having flashbacks to The Vampire Diaries where Damon would lie, manipulate, or kill anyone to protect his precious Elena even when she explicitly told him not to. In other words, I love you soooooooo much that I'm willing to do anything but listen to you and respect your choices. Why bother trying to appeal to Vanya's humanity and talk her down when you could just sneak up on her and attack her?

Reginald was a terrible parent and teacher. The way he dealt with a 4 year old child who did not know how to control her powers was so irresponsible. One of the major issues is that kids don't have great impulse control at that age, so exploring her powers when she was still so young was not a very good idea. Kids have temper tantrums. Kids lose control. Kids scream and break things. Kids get tired of practicing anything, no matter how much they like it.

I'm not excusing what 4 year old Vanya did, but the fault lies with Reginald. When kids do something wrong, you tell them it's wrong, you explain why, and you tell them what they can do better the next time. You don't just say their name exasperatedly and then get a new nanny. Instead of teaching her what she should do or how to control her powers, he did nothing constructive or useful to help her learn from her mistakes.

Side note: on Legacies, the premise of the show is that a school was started to help supernatural kids (witches, vampires, werewolves) learn how to control their powers so that they aren't stuck trying to figure it out in secret on their own. Two of the main characters are sisters who began showing signs of their powers when they were very little so their parents told them they had to be very careful about how they used their powers. Reginald was kind of doing the same thing but in a much more totalitarian way.