S08.E29: Trouble in Paradise

[LBS]

52 minutes ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

And god damn it, Javi for making me appreciate Briana. JFC.

Co-sign!  I hate, hate, hate being on her side but he was being SUCH an ass.  She doesn't owe him anything.   My respect for Javi nose-dived.

 

Watching Leah really enjoy and savor the Hawai'i trip was nice.  I'm glad she got to experience it. 

[IDreamofJoaquin]

12 hours ago, monagatuna said:

How much do you think she weighs? I am terrible at guessing weight but I'd say between 160 and 170? I guarantee those guys have taken much bigger. I see them at the DZ every weekend. There are upper weight limits, sure, and everyone would prefer to take a Leah than a Kail, but most weight limits for DZs are between 225 and 240. This is based on the tandem rig manufacturer's requirements, and if you exceed those upper limits, they'll strip your certification and you'll have no tandem rigs to use. 

I was just jokin' around.  I think she looks like she weighs 220.  But she is very tall too so that adds to it.  

[ReadMeLattice]

This show is so effing bleak. 

 

Re: the bullying- My husband is a wheelchair user, which I’ve mentioned before- he doesn’t get “bullied” in the conventional sense much, though it does happen. But he’s a college professor and extremely eloquent and an active dad, so I don’t think Ali will necessarily have the same experience if she isn’t taught to be fully independent (i.e., if she’s read as having a cognitive disability rather than a purely physical one for various reasons, or if Leah and Corey don’t teach her to be unashamed of her disability). The condescension/ pity and lack of appropriate public accommodations/accessibility as you become an adult are 10x worse than the bullying. You have to really fight for parking spots, to get on flights, to get in restaurants, to get in the workplace, to get your education. The world is not accessible yet. You have to really be a self starter. I fear that with Corey’s prayers for a miracle (he’s definitely just as bad if not worse with this) and Leah’s rampant laziness, she might not get there. 

I’m not sure why people still doubt Kail is bi. Seems Kail has always dated women and is into butch women, which many bi girls are. I get major bisexual vibes from her as a fellow queer lady, though I wish she wasn’t on our team because she’s a heinous obnoxious racist. And I don’t mean to be body shaming but damn, get some clothes that fit!!! Why can’t she just buy clothes that fit her? Does she not want to admit her size? I get it, I’ve been big before, but at some point, please just buy clothes that fit your actual body. Dear Lord. 

Javi is really trash. He’s as slutty and flighty as anybody on the show. Even though she’s foolish I feel so bad for his fiancée... how embarrassing to know you were a second choice, and after Briana!!! And why would he share that on the air? He’s really quite the manipulative snake. 

I get Barb’s attempt to get someone in her corner, but Nathan doesn’t give a shit about his son and never has. He’s all about himself and the latest girlfriend... he’s not going to make for an effective ally. Remember that he’s choked out at least 2 women that we know of and possibly 3, had no custody of his daughter because of substance abuse, and has now moved to a different state while believing his child is actively being abused so he can have sex with the latest future abuse victim. This is not a safe person. 

I feel for Barb though. Always. 

[Scarlett45]

16 hours ago, DudeLeaveMeAlone said:

I'm going to guess she's close to 200 pounds, if not more. I'm 5'11 (she's 5'9?) and after two kids, I'm around 190 and look nowhere near as hulkish as she does. Granted, I've not artificially inflated my ass, and my natural 36DD boobs are kept under control in a well fitting bra. I just don't see her being under 200 lbs based on her pictures and videos.

I would guess about 200lbs well. 

I don’t think Kailyn is actually “hulkish” or anything like that, she just dresses so damn badly in clothes that are 5 sizes too small it’s so unflattering. Her outfit for skydiving was actually one of the better ones for the activity. Wear a bra Kailyn, wear a bra.

Anyone is going to look large next to Leah. I have a friend that’s 5’1 and a size 0, I’m 5’7 and a 16/18- she says she hates taking photos with me because I make her look ghostly pale. Honey child please. ?

34 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

I’m not sure why people still doubt Kail is bi. Seems Kail has always dated women and is into butch women, which many bi girls are. I get major bisexual vibes from her as a fellow queer lady, though I wish she wasn’t on our team because she’s a heinous obnoxious racist. And I don’t mean to be body shaming but damn, get some clothes that fit!!! Why can’t she just buy clothes that fit her? Does she not want to admit her size? I get it, I’ve been big before, but at some point, please just buy clothes that fit your actual body. Dear Lord. 

Yes Kailyn has always been bi. 

This I don’t understand. Maybe because I’ve ALWAYS been big (since I was 2yrs old I’ve been either overweight (at my smallest) or obese (at my biggest)) why make yourself uncomfortable with clothes that are too small. Wear clothes that fit! You’ll feel and look so much better!!!!! I don’t understand women wearing too small clothes- doesn’t that hurt?

Additionally Kailyn probably still wears straight sizes, so it’s not as if this is Po Dunk Ville 1972 and there are no youthful plus size stores. I’m jealous of teens now with torrid, I made it work with the options I had as a teen in the early 2000s (although it helps I am a straight size up top). 

Edited July 21, 2018 by Scarlett45

[charmed1]

1 hour ago, Lm2162 said:

get Barb’s attempt to get someone in her corner, but Nathan doesn’t give a shit about his son and never has. He’s all about himself and the latest girlfriend..

His reaction was very “Meh” for someone who was just told his child had been beaten. Even if I give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he’d already been told, Nathan’s “Being Nathan” special told me all I needed to know about his love for Kaiser. 

[StatisticalOutlier]

3 hours ago, charmed1 said:

His reaction was very “Meh” for someone who was just told his child had been beaten.

I don't think Barb ever said "beaten."  She said "spanked," and if you're a spanker yourself, you'll have to do some cogitating.  Maybe that's what Nathan looks like when he's thinking.

[SnarkEnthusiast]

On 7/18/2018 at 6:20 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Really you think so? (Not being snarky or anything) Adults poke, make fun, and bully people all the time for things they cannot change (race, sex, disability etc), much less older kids. I have a classmate who uses a wheelchair, and the comments she gets when she’s out with her husband “you’re a saint!.... how do you do it??!!......” Kids have pointed and laughed at my sister her entire life (adults as well), of course she doesn’t know what they are saying, so I’m not so concerned. The idea that older people/kids don’t make fun of people with disabilities hasn’t been my life experience nor the experience of the people I have met associated with disability community. 

IMO I think Leah and Corey need to explain to Ali that the teasing will happen but she needs to be secure in who she is, and not let it effect herself esteem. 

As an adult and wheelchair user with a pretty severe disability (cerebral palsy), I second this. I'm mid-20s now and while I was never bullied in school, the shit I hear from adults and sometimes even people I know is terrible. "Who would date you?" " It will take a special person to date you" "You work! Wow!" "Is cerebral palsy genetic? [It's not.] You probably shouldn't have kids." "That's incredible that X person does Y basic human interaction with you! You must be grateful!" "You have a degree? Amazing!" "I bet so-and-so would be willing to have sex with you." (My friends have literally volunteered their exes to take my virginity as an act of kindness, it's weird.) And the classic "What happens when your family dies?"

Adulthood is much harder. Adults are, if anything, more ignorant, less compassionate, and more motivated by self-gratification than kids. The social disparity grows wider with each passing year. You're basically trapped into the lifestyle of a 13-year-old against your will. Everyone dates and you don't. Everyone drives and you don't. Everyone parties and you don't (although some of us try lol). The older everyone gets, the more infantilizing and patronizing they become. Social interactions as an adult feel less valuable to me because everyone still reacts to me as a precocious 16-year-old on a good day, so personal, let alone professional, networking is futile. It's tremendously lonely and horribly isolating.

Ali has a very long road ahead, but teen and young adult years hit like a ton of bricks. 

[ReadMeLattice]

@SnarkEnthusiast, the surprise that someone works is soooo gross and condescending. I hate that so much. 

[charmed1]

1 hour ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I don't think Barb ever said "beaten."  She said "spanked," and if you're a spanker yourself, you'll have to do some cogitating.  Maybe that's what Nathan looks like when he's thinking.

Eh. “Spanking” was not even a word that was used where I grew up. It was either “whipping” or “beating,” which I later learned were words synonymous with “spanking.” Regardless, clearly, the use of physical discipline by a non-related adult to punish a very young Kaiser for wetting himself was enough to concern his eight-year-old brother.

Good for Jace for speaking up on behalf of Kaiser and recognizing when something isn’t right. He’s most likely Kaiser’s only advocate in that home. God only knows what goes on when he isn’t there. I hope he continues to sound the alarm and doesn’t come to normalize the behaviors of David and Jenelle. They truly are both “pieces of shit.”

[rhofmovalley]

But is Ali even going to make it to teen or adult years?  My understanding is that the possibility is small she will live beyond her preteen years.

And that's just so sad.  I get wanting her to experience life while she still can, but is sacrificing a potential future worth her having a chance to cheer or play softball?

I also wonder if those activities are physically painful for her.  I really hope they're not.

[SnarkEnthusiast]

4 minutes ago, rhofmovalley said:

But is Ali even going to make it to teen or adult years?  My understanding is that the possibility is small she will live beyond her preteen years.

And that's just so sad.  I get wanting her to experience life while she still can, but is sacrificing a potential future worth her having a chance to cheer or play softball?

I also wonder if those activities are physically painful for her.  I really hope they're not.

I'm not sure. People with MD usually pass away in their late teens or early 20s, but isn't her type exceedingly rare? So that could help or hurt her in terms of life expectancy because no one really knows its specific progression. Preteen feels early though. We know someone in his 30s with MD who has a wife and a young child. It depends on the individual and their diagnosis I think.

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

As an adult and wheelchair user with a pretty severe disability (cerebral palsy), I second this. I'm mid-20s now and while I was never bullied in school, the shit I hear from adults and sometimes even people I know is terrible. "Who would date you?" " It will take a special person to date you" "You work! Wow!" "Is cerebral palsy genetic? [It's not.] You probably shouldn't have kids." "That's incredible that X person does Y basic human interaction with you! You must be grateful!" "You have a degree? Amazing!" "I bet so-and-so would be willing to have sex with you." (My friends have literally volunteered their exes to take my virginity as an act of kindness, it's weird.) And the classic "What happens when your family dies?"

Adulthood is much harder. Adults are, if anything, more ignorant, less compassionate, and more motivated by self-gratification than kids. The social disparity grows wider with each passing year. You're basically trapped into the lifestyle of a 13-year-old against your will. Everyone dates and you don't. Everyone drives and you don't. Everyone parties and you don't (although some of us try lol). The older everyone gets, the more infantilizing and patronizing they become. Social interactions as an adult feel less valuable to me because everyone still reacts to me as a precocious 16-year-old on a good day, so personal, let alone professional, networking is futile. It's tremendously lonely and horribly isolating.

Ali has a very long road ahead, but teen and young adult years hit like a ton of bricks. 

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences with us. 

I am not surprised by anything you’ve said. 

Also people are assholes. 

[WhosThatGirl]

2 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

As an adult and wheelchair user with a pretty severe disability (cerebral palsy), I second this. I'm mid-20s now and while I was never bullied in school, the shit I hear from adults and sometimes even people I know is terrible. "Who would date you?" " It will take a special person to date you" "You work! Wow!" "Is cerebral palsy genetic? [It's not.] You probably shouldn't have kids." "That's incredible that X person does Y basic human interaction with you! You must be grateful!" "You have a degree? Amazing!" "I bet so-and-so would be willing to have sex with you." (My friends have literally volunteered their exes to take my virginity as an act of kindness, it's weird.) And the classic "What happens when your family dies?"

Adulthood is much harder. Adults are, if anything, more ignorant, less compassionate, and more motivated by self-gratification than kids. The social disparity grows wider with each passing year. You're basically trapped into the lifestyle of a 13-year-old against your will. Everyone dates and you don't. Everyone drives and you don't. Everyone parties and you don't (although some of us try lol). The older everyone gets, the more infantilizing and patronizing they become. Social interactions as an adult feel less valuable to me because everyone still reacts to me as a precocious 16-year-old on a good day, so personal, let alone professional, networking is futile. It's tremendously lonely and horribly isolating.

Ali has a very long road ahead, but teen and young adult years hit like a ton of bricks. 

Also a person who uses a wheelchair sometimes, most of the time on a daily basis I use a walker. And yeah it is really tough. Believe me.. my bouts with depression come and go but here I am. It is hard because I do think people look at me a certain way and even I’m guilty of their preconceived notions on myself. And yes.. unfortunately it is like being a child stuck in an adult body. I’m an adult but there are things my body cannot do without help and I struggle to find that independence on a daily basis. Other adults don’t help much in terms of finding self confidence. 

Edited July 21, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[CaliforniaLove]

As far as Kail being bi, I completely buy (see what I did there?) that she's attracted to both guys & girls & enjoys fooling around with both...what I don't really believe is that she'd end up with a girl in a meaningful, long term relationship...well that's questionable with ANYONE & Kail at this point, but I don't know how much I buy her thinking a girl will actually be endgame.

I'm sorry for what everyone here has gone through as far as wheelchairs are concerned. I'm not disabled, but work on the 2nd floor of an office that is not handicap accessible...and I work somewhere I think it would be a requirement. That's another thing with Ali using her chair...they need to use it where they're actually able to! Don't tire the kid out, then end up somewhere with no ramps or elevator. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, CaliforniaLove said:

 

As far as Kail being bi, I completely buy (see what I did there?) that she's attracted to both guys & girls & enjoys fooling around with both...what I don't really believe is that she'd end up with a girl in a meaningful, long term relationship...well that's questionable with ANYONE & Kail at this point, but I don't know how much I buy her thinking a girl will actually be endgame.

 

This I agree with. Among my bi/lesbian/queer female friends/aquantiances they tend to have more emotional nuance to their relationships (again this is just my circle). Kailyn has the emotional depth of a teaspoon, I don’t think she could hold onto any woman, even if they enjoyed her money and the sex they would leave because it would just be too shallow....men on the other hand are more likely to be hypnotized by such things. 

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, CaliforniaLove said:

As far as Kail being bi, I completely buy (see what I did there?) that she's attracted to both guys & girls & enjoys fooling around with both...what I don't really believe is that she'd end up with a girl in a meaningful, long term relationship...well that's questionable with ANYONE & Kail at this point, but I don't know how much I buy her thinking a girl will actually be endgame.

I'm sorry for what everyone here has gone through as far as wheelchairs are concerned. I'm not disabled, but work on the 2nd floor of an office that is not handicap accessible...and I work somewhere I think it would be a requirement. That's another thing with Ali using her chair...they need to use it where they're actually able to! Don't tire the kid out, then end up somewhere with no ramps or elevator. 

Yeah, not to make this about disabled issues and all that but the world still isn’t that great at accessibility. So Ali and Corey and Leah will have to deal with that. Like for example a few episodes back when Leah said she and Gracie had to adjust the birthday party venue so Ali could have fun too(which side note still unsure if they did, but whatever) this may happen quite a few more times in the twins lives. There might be events or things Gracie wants to do and Ali might want to do that the parents might not be able to do because it’s not accessible for Ali. It’s hard. 

[mscav]

13 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

I get Barb’s attempt to get someone in her corner, but Nathan doesn’t give a shit about his son and never has. He’s all about himself and the latest girlfriend... he’s not going to make for an effective ally. Remember that he’s choked out at least 2 women that we know of and possibly 3, had no custody of his daughter because of substance abuse, and has now moved to a different state while believing his child is actively being abused so he can have sex with the latest future abuse victim. This is not a safe person. 

I feel for Barb though. Always. 

I agree.  While I think Nathan is a better option then Jenelle, a bar so low it's underground,  Babs would be better off working exclusively with Doris when it comes to Kaiser. Nathan is a liability. He doesn't really want to get involved and he is likely to run his mouth or do something stupid which results in more time with the swampthings for poor Kaiser. I truly fear for that little boy. Especially since they keep getting away with their shitty treatment of him.  You know that everytime they are investigated, the level of abuse is most likely rising against that poor baby.

[FlowerofCarnage]

Long read but  great insight from a CPS worker about Kai's situation.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/teenmom/comments/8vkojy/thoughts_on_kaisers_current_situation_from_a/

[SnarkEnthusiast]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Thank you very much for sharing your experiences with us. 

I am not surprised by anything you’ve said. 

Also people are assholes. 

Thanks! You're a Sib, right? (sibling of someone with a disability) Reading your posts and watching the stress on Gracie makes me worry that I was an asshole as a child lol or that I made things difficult.

4 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

 it is like being a child stuck in an adult body. I’m an adult but there are things my body cannot do without help and I struggle to find that independence on a daily basis. Other adults don’t help much in terms of finding self confidence. 

Yes! Although socially I'd argue it's the reverse. Everyone 15 and older talks to me like I'm 11. It's horrible when actual kids treat you, an adult, like a young child. My peers are now starting to act as if they're my parents. It's creepy.

2 hours ago, CaliforniaLove said:

As far as Kail being bi, I completely buy (see what I did there?) that she's attracted to both guys & girls & enjoys fooling around with both...what I don't really believe is that she'd end up with a girl in a meaningful, long term relationship...well that's questionable with ANYONE & Kail at this point, but I don't know how much I buy her thinking a girl will actually be endgame.

(just musing, please don't read this as confrontational or critical!)

I'm reluctant to say that anyone has the authority to decide the legitimacy of someone's sexuality based on whether or not they'd settle down with someone of the same gender. Plenty of bisexual women are only sexually attracted to women with no desire to date them, which is very frustrating to me personally as a bisexual woman looking for a serious girlfriend lol. But it doesn't make them less bi. Socially, I think, there are just too many incentives and rewards for ending up with men, whereas many bi women themselves view being attracted to women as a kinky way to rebel and explore your sexuality. Plus, in my experience, TONS of men will chat you up and be open to meeting up. In contrast, you have to exhaustively pursue women and finding someone who is 1) actually into dating women 2) your type and 3) into you is beyond impossible. Plus, many lesbians refuse to date bi women out of fear they'll cheat with a dude, a tired stereotype which glorious Kail wasted no time perpetuating.

 In my mind, for Kail, it's not about wanting a girlfriend as much as getting off on the realization that she can sexually manipulate anyone, not just men, while getting bragging rights for defying social convention. Sure, she might date women, but that's not her intent necessarily - it's all about finding the next ego boost and the next person she can dominate into doing whatever she wants. It's just another means of control.

[Scarlett45]

18 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Thanks! You're a Sib, right? (sibling of someone with a disability) Reading your posts and watching the stress on Gracie makes me worry that I was an asshole as a child lol or that I made things difficult.

5 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yes I am a Sib! 

Im 32 and my sister is 30(#TallToddlers). Most of my Sib Group consists of people who have siblings with cognitive disabilities (ranging from high functioning persons on the ASD spectrum to low functioning persons)- but there are a few of us who’s siblings have physical disabilities with no cognitive impairments. It’s different but similar.

Even among the intellectual disability community my sister is rare, it’s very very rare to have such low cognitive functioning but have no physical health problems, no chromosomal abnormalities or syndromes. Gracie is going to have a far different emotional reaction that I did growing up (well 1. She’s not me, 2. My sister was never my peer, she’s always been a toddler since she actually was a toddler, in a lot of ways I’m an only child emotionally).

But I swear when Gracie said “is it my fault” I wanted to ball my eyes out, as I know a woman who thought the same thing about her twin. No sweetie it’s not your fault omg (I’m going to tear up again). 

 

Anyone can be an asshole at any time, I’m sure you were a great sister! When my sister is being an asshole (usually to our Mom, who’s spoiled her incessantly out of mother’s guilt), I tell her “leave Mommy alone! You’re being an asshole!”......generally she just sits down. My mom comments “she never listens to me like she does you and her caregiver.”(that’s cause she knows she was being an asshole) If my sister who has the mental functioning of a 2yrs old (granted she’s been 2 for 28years) knows how to manipulate her Mom, I believe Ali does it sometimes as well. I don’t believe Ali is faking her symptoms at all but I understand why Gracie thinks that she may be manipulating the parents to get her way.(taking it back to the episode)

19 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Socially, I think, there are just too many incentives and rewards for ending up with men, whereas many bi women themselves view being attracted to women as a kinky way to rebel and explore your sexuality. Plus, in my experience, TONS of men will chat you up and be open to meeting up. In contrast, you have to exhaustively pursue women and finding someone who is 1) actually into dating women 2) your type and 3) into you is beyond impossible. Plus, many lesbians refuse to date bi women out of fear they'll cheat with a dude, a tired stereotype which glorious Kail wasted no time perpetuating.

 In my mind, for Kail, it's not about wanting a girlfriend as much as getting off on the realization that she can sexually manipulate anyone, not just men, while getting bragging rights for defying social convention. Sure, she might date women, but that's not her intent necessarily - it's all about finding the next ego boost and the next person she can dominate into doing whatever she wants. It's just another means of control.

Basically yes to everything you’ve said. 

Kailyn would benefit greatly from therapy ASAP. She doesn’t seem to have normal emotional connections with people- I don’t mean romantically just with anyone! Of course her family of origin isn’t her fault, but maybe not getting that unconditional nurturing as a child made her believe that other people were only to be USED for her benefit. She’s got a natural maternal interest in her sons, but they are all pretty young still- how will she be able to bond with them when meeting their basic physical needs won’t be enough to earn their love? When they have opinions and emotional needs that don’t line up with her own? I wonder. 

Edited July 22, 2018 by Scarlett45

[WhosThatGirl]

43 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Thanks! You're a Sib, right? (sibling of someone with a disability) Reading your posts and watching the stress on Gracie makes me worry that I was an asshole as a child lol or that I made things difficult.

Yes! Although socially I'd argue it's the reverse. Everyone 15 and older talks to me like I'm 11. It's horrible when actual kids treat you, an adult, like a young child. My peers are now starting to act as if they're my parents. It's creepy.

(just musing, please don't read this as confrontational or critical!)

I'm reluctant to say that anyone has the authority to decide the legitimacy of someone's sexuality based on whether or not they'd settle down with someone of the same gender. Plenty of bisexual women are only sexually attracted to women with no desire to date them, which is very frustrating to me personally as a bisexual woman looking for a serious girlfriend lol. But it doesn't make them less bi. Socially, I think, there are just too many incentives and rewards for ending up with men, whereas many bi women themselves view being attracted to women as a kinky way to rebel and explore your sexuality. Plus, in my experience, TONS of men will chat you up and be open to meeting up. In contrast, you have to exhaustively pursue women and finding someone who is 1) actually into dating women 2) your type and 3) into you is beyond impossible. Plus, many lesbians refuse to date bi women out of fear they'll cheat with a dude, a tired stereotype which glorious Kail wasted no time perpetuating.

 In my mind, for Kail, it's not about wanting a girlfriend as much as getting off on the realization that she can sexually manipulate anyone, not just men, while getting bragging rights for defying social convention. Sure, she might date women, but that's not her intent necessarily - it's all about finding the next ego boost and the next person she can dominate into doing whatever she wants. It's just another means of control.

I wanted to just quote the part about your peers treating you like a child because yeah.. same. And the funny thing is when I was Alis age this wasn’t the case. It got bad when I was in middle school and teenage years, it was bad and not because I was bullied but there was a new found isolation aspect and the same age as me teenagers talking to me as if I was a child. And as an adult, this is for sure something that sadly I can’t shake. I also think being a disabled adult is harder as well, because it’s so hard for me to find many things to just meet people and do things and I then always have to talk about my disability and explain certain things and it’s kind of rough at times.

It was also hard because I didn’t fully understand my condition (and at times I still don’t, it’s very rare) and so I don’t know how my life is going to look in five years from now, so for Leah and Corey, I hope they can prepare Ali for her life and what she needs to know. That’s important. I want them to encourage her to do things that she likes and can do. 

Edited July 22, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[CaliforniaLove]

1 hour ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Thanks! You're a Sib, right? (sibling of someone with a disability) Reading your posts and watching the stress on Gracie makes me worry that I was an asshole as a child lol or that I made things difficult.

Yes! Although socially I'd argue it's the reverse. Everyone 15 and older talks to me like I'm 11. It's horrible when actual kids treat you, an adult, like a young child. My peers are now starting to act as if they're my parents. It's creepy.

(just musing, please don't read this as confrontational or critical!)

I'm reluctant to say that anyone has the authority to decide the legitimacy of someone's sexuality based on whether or not they'd settle down with someone of the same gender. Plenty of bisexual women are only sexually attracted to women with no desire to date them, which is very frustrating to me personally as a bisexual woman looking for a serious girlfriend lol. But it doesn't make them less bi. Socially, I think, there are just too many incentives and rewards for ending up with men, whereas many bi women themselves view being attracted to women as a kinky way to rebel and explore your sexuality. Plus, in my experience, TONS of men will chat you up and be open to meeting up. In contrast, you have to exhaustively pursue women and finding someone who is 1) actually into dating women 2) your type and 3) into you is beyond impossible. Plus, many lesbians refuse to date bi women out of fear they'll cheat with a dude, a tired stereotype which glorious Kail wasted no time perpetuating.

 In my mind, for Kail, it's not about wanting a girlfriend as much as getting off on the realization that she can sexually manipulate anyone, not just men, while getting bragging rights for defying social convention. Sure, she might date women, but that's not her intent necessarily - it's all about finding the next ego boost and the next person she can dominate into doing whatever she wants. It's just another means of control.

I completely agree with what you're saying, and I hope you didn't take what I said as not accepting the legitimacy of Kail's (or anybody's) sexuality. I was just trying to share a perspective of not "disbelieving", but seeing her not having the same intentions towards both genders in the grand scheme of things, which I think CAN make other people look at her with disbelief. 

[SnarkEnthusiast]

1 minute ago, CaliforniaLove said:

I completely agree with what you're saying, and I hope you didn't take what I said as not accepting the legitimacy of Kail's (or anybody's) sexuality. I was just trying to share a perspective of not "disbelieving", but seeing her not having the same intentions towards both genders in the grand scheme of things, which I think CAN make other people look at her with disbelief. 

 Right! Kail is all about mind games and I don't think it goes much further than "who can I seduce into babysitting my kids this month?"

She herself only seems to mention that she likes women as a throwaway comment or when she wants to fit in with her lesbian friends, so I was surprised to hear she's been with women what sounded like years earlier. Her vibe with Dom screamed "first girlfriend" imo. I think she meant she'd had sex with women before Dom, to clarify to her friend it wasn't an experiment. But then she fucked Javi like two weeks later so...way to perpetuate the promiscuous bisexual stereotype, Kail.

That said, she'd NEVER marry a woman, unless she was ultra masc and in the military aka a lesbian Javi redux lmao.   

[guilfoyleatpp]

wow, this has been SUCH a great discussion! you know, I haven't recently thought about the incentives involved in women dating men. It's completely accurate and I am going to spend some time thinking more about the tangible and intangible incentives that our society offers women who date and settle down with men. THIS is why I love it here!

Dom is totally the kind of chick that A LOT of women would appreciate. Once it got into it, I think Kailyn could only see that Dom was more human and less "super desirable girlfriend." I  might be projecting here because I've totally done that with some guys. 

 

I think in her heart, Kailyn desperately wants to be accepted, and she wants to be seen as desirable (don't we all, though). So if people don't instantly recognize and consistently verbally affirm that she is desirable and valuable, she melts down. Maybe the reason her podcast works so well with Lindsie Chrisley is that she doesn't have that expectation of Lindisie because LC is a special kind of clueless and Kailyn has no expectations of her. I've known girls like that.

[SnarkEnthusiast]

13 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I wanted to just quote the part about your peers treating you like a child because yeah.. same. And the funny thing is when I was Alis age this wasn’t the case. It got bad when I was in middle school and teenage years, it was bad and not because I was bullied but there was a new found isolation aspect and the same age as me teenagers talking to me as if I was a child. And as an adult, this is for sure something that sadly I can’t shake. I also think being a disabled adult is harder as well, because it’s so hard for me to find many things to just meet people and do things and I then always have to talk about my disability and explain certain things and it’s kind of rough at times.

 

Hugs! (Awkward disabled hugs lol) Yeah actually young childhood was the best time in my life because everyone views disability as the epitome of childlike and kids haven't recognized disability as social stigma yet. Everyone thought my chair was cool and adults spoiled me rotten. Around fifth grade is when everything shifted and people started to treat me like their younger sibling. They were nice, but it was out of politeness rather than a desire to hang out with me. I was that kid that your parents made you invite over to your house and to your birthday party to teach you a lesson about acceptance. And honestly, nothing changed even in college. Everyone was kind and protective of me, but could care less about me in terms of seeing me as an actual peer to befriend or date. For everyone else, imagine being perceived as an asexual 12-year-old forever and trying to make friends with your adult peers, who think it's adorable that you're trying to have friendships with them as an equal! While existing with a disability! So inspiring!

2 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

wow, this has been SUCH a great discussion! you know, I haven't recently thought about the incentives involved in women dating men. It's completely accurate and I am going to spend some time thinking more about the tangible and intangible incentives that our society offers women who date and settle down with men. THIS is why I love it here!

Dom is totally the kind of chick that A LOT of women would appreciate. Once it got into it, I think Kailyn could only see that Dom was more human and less "super desirable girlfriend." I  might be projecting here because I've totally done that with some guys. 

Yeah there are tons of ways bisexual women in particular and also closeted lesbians are taught to value relationships with men as more legitimate, easier, and therefore preferable. Traditional gender roles and how women are conditioned to seek and savor male validation as the strongest reflection of self-worth, in some cases pleasing homophobic parents, following social expectations, passing as straight to society (although that's a bone of contention to some so I wouldn't bring it up as discussion lol), avoiding lifelong homophobic stigma with your partner, usually being able to have kids naturally and without spending money on adoption/insemination, the ability to compartmentalize your attraction to women as a phase because you married a man and therefore distance yourself from queerness, winning society's approval because you have a husband meaning you ultimately "chose" heterosexuality and reaffirm the belief that bisexuality is fake or that attraction to men always wins out (Larry King once insisted to a very bewildered Anna Paquin in a very awkward interview that she was no longer a "practicing bisexual" because she married a man). Plus, even if you end up with a woman, you'll always face homophobia from straight people and biphobia/suspicion from lesbians who think you're not really in their community and will eventually go running back to social privilege and the siren song of dick (of course, women can have penises too, but that's another topic). Signing up for a life of discrimination isn't exactly appealing, especially if you have another option. And believe me, the ratio of available men to available women on any dating app is about 20:1 lol.

tl;dr women are compelled to subconsciously ignore or devalue their attraction to and romantic relationships with women in order to reap the social benefits of being in a heterosexual relationship. Consequently, even if you would have a long-term relationship with a woman, the factors above make the dating pool so shallow that you're much more likely statistically to date and end up with a man. 

Eh, Dom doesn't do it for me lmao. I like both masculine and feminine women, but she's the painfully average lovechild of Justin Bieber and Ruby Rose lol. I HATE when masc of center women think the best way to get female attention is by acting like an obnoxious, aloof frat boy, and then that behavior is reinforced by girls drooling all over them and mothering them in relationships. Stop channeling straight dudes!

Her social media presence is very embarrassing. She whined about how "in love" she was with Kail after someone tweeted her about the Javi cheating and always posts Instagram photos with vague, passive aggressive captions talking about haters and drama. She thinks she and her life are WAY cooler and more intense than they actually are.

Off topic but holy shit, @CaliforniaLove, I just noticed your icon and it's amazing!

Edited July 22, 2018 by SnarkEnthusiast

[ReadMeLattice]

22 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I'm not sure. People with MD usually pass away in their late teens or early 20s, but isn't her type exceedingly rare? So that could help or hurt her in terms of life expectancy because no one really knows its specific progression. Preteen feels early though. We know someone in his 30s with MD who has a wife and a young child. It depends on the individual and their diagnosis I think.

I do know several adults in their 60s with MD (my husband works with a theatre company that includes many actors and directors with disabilities), so I think it's like cerebral palsy in that it can mean a number of different things in terms of lifespan. But I think her lifespan is said to be shorter than average? I thought I remembered that from the show.

[SnarkEnthusiast]

2 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

I do know several adults in their 60s with MD (my husband works with a theatre company that includes many actors and directors with disabilities), so I think it's like cerebral palsy in that it can mean a number of different things in terms of lifespan. But I think her lifespan is said to be shorter than average? I thought I remembered that from the show.

60s? That's awesome! I've never heard of people with MD living that long.

[ReadMeLattice]

17 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

This I agree with. Among my bi/lesbian/queer female friends/aquantiances they tend to have more emotional nuance to their relationships (again this is just my circle). Kailyn has the emotional depth of a teaspoon, I don’t think she could hold onto any woman, even if they enjoyed her money and the sex they would leave because it would just be too shallow....men on the other hand are more likely to be hypnotized by such things. 

I agree, but like you said, I don't know if she could hold onto anybody.

I mean, can we really imagine Kailyn having an emotionally decent relationship with a man forever and staying married? I guess anyone can change, but I truly don't think it's possible for her from what we see at this point. She seems very unable to connect with anybody.

I agree with what folks have said about why bisexual women do statistically tend to end up with men (although after divorce or being widowed, many women also have late in life female partners, so I guess it's complicated). I'm one of them--I'm about a 5 on the Kinsey scale (and dated a lot of masculine women, like Dom, except less douchey) and ended up with a man. I don't think it was social norms that led to the decision, but just the person happening to be *my* person, but I think it certainly happens. I also think it's just a numbers game to an extent. The queer community is fairly small; many of them in my (lefty, academic) circles are deliberately polyamorous for political reasons, and others are still closeted, so it was narrowed down even more as I'm only interested in monogamy and a public commitment. Then you cut it down to the people you're actually attracted to and interested in, then all the normal dating issues, and there's really not a ton of choice. But men willing to date women, that's quite a large pool--so I think it just often ends up that way.

5 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

60s? That's awesome! I've never heard of people with MD living that long.

There's also later-onset muscular dystrophy, so now that I think about it, that might be a skewed data point. I think sadly that Ali's disorder is likely to result in a drastically shortened lifespan. :(

[BitterApple]

16 hours ago, FlowerofCarnage said:

Long read but  great insight from a CPS worker about Kai's situation.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/teenmom/comments/8vkojy/thoughts_on_kaisers_current_situation_from_a/

Thank you for posting that. It's great to get insight from someone who worked in the system. 

[ghoulina]

On 7/21/2018 at 11:43 AM, StatisticalOutlier said:

I don't think Barb ever said "beaten."  She said "spanked," and if you're a spanker yourself, you'll have to do some cogitating.  Maybe that's what Nathan looks like when he's thinking.

I've considered this. But I still think he'd have issues. The main issue for me isn't the spanking itself (I don't spank and I don't particularly like it as a form of punishment, but I'm not ready to make it a black and white issue and rake anyone who has ever spanked over the coals). The issue is the why - Kaiser was expressing that he had to go potty. David told him no. Then spanked him when he peed. That's some fucked up shit right there. 

Also, again, I'm not defending spanking - but I can understand why some custody agreements forbid anyone but the actual parents from disciplining this way. 

So, to me, it's more complicated than just...Kaiser got a spanking. I just can't imagine my husband getting a call like that and continuing to mini golf. 

[mscav]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

The issue is the why - Kaiser was expressing that he had to go potty. David told him no. Then spanked him when he peed. That's some fucked up shit right there. 

This exactly! This shows that he's not just a routine spanker but a true abuser. He set him up for failure and then hit him.  From what they've shown on the show this seems to be a regular occurrence. 

[jacksgirl]

Late to the party, love the comments. As part of my job, I have to check drivers licenses as part of enrolling elementary students in public school. Usually it's the mom who brings in the child and our state still includes the weight on driver's licenses. So I consider myself an expert on the subject :-). Kail is tall and has a big build. She's hovering around 200. Other thing I noticed, kudos to Nathan for wearing his shirt with sleeves when lunching with Barb. I dislike men in tank tops in restaurants so Nathan was, I think 1 for 3, he had on tanks several other times,  but glad he was in sleeves with Barb. 

 

ETA- plus I also always know when Dr. Now's patients have gained weight instead of lost it so I am an expert.

Edited July 23, 2018 by jacksgirl

[StatisticalOutlier]

8 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Kaiser was expressing that he had to go potty. David told him no. Then spanked him when he peed. That's some fucked up shit right there.

I agree, when you put it that way.

But I remember a scene a few episodes back, in the kitchen of a vacation house (in the snow? for Jenelle's birthday?) where everything was hectic and they were sitting down to eat and Kaiser said he had to go to the bathroom and David said no, and said something that made me think he said no because Kaiser has a habit of doing this as a stalling tactic, and he wasn't buying it and wanted him to sit down and eat.  Like when the Supernanny would be trying to teach people how to make their kids go to bed, and the kid would say he was thirsty, and the Supernanny would say he's just doing everything he can think of to buy time.

And I don't think that incident in the vacation house is the same as the one that Jace said led to the peeing and spanking, since there weren't cameras present for the one Jace talked about.  So I do wonder if it isn't a case of David denying Kaiser permission to use the bathroom, but instead addressing a pattern of behavior, and Kaiser called his bluff, so to speak. 

I think there's a difference between a kid saying he has to go to the bathroom and being told no and then being punished for peeing uncontrollably (although who's to say he wasn't actually aiming--I know I would have been tempted) and a kid who uses "I have to go to the bathroom" as a stalling tactic and it becomes a contest, and I don't know what actually happened.  As usual. 

But what I do know is that none of this would be such a big issue if people didn't hit other people.

 

3 hours ago, jacksgirl said:

Other thing I noticed, kudos to Nathan for wearing his shirt with sleeves when lunching with Barb. I dislike men in tank tops in restaurants so Nathan was, I think 1 for 3, he had on tanks several other times,  but glad he was in sleeves with Barb. 

I drop by here only occasionally, but your post made me notice that I don't think he's being called Nipples anywhere near as much as he used to be.

[geauxaway]

7 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I agree, when you put it that way.

But I remember a scene a few episodes back, in the kitchen of a vacation house (in the snow? for Jenelle's birthday?) where everything was hectic and they were sitting down to eat and Kaiser said he had to go to the bathroom and David said no, and said something that made me think he said no because Kaiser has a habit of doing this as a stalling tactic, and he wasn't buying it and wanted him to sit down and eat.  Like when the Supernanny would be trying to teach people how to make their kids go to bed, and the kid would say he was thirsty, and the Supernanny would say he's just doing everything he can think of to buy time.

And I don't think that incident in the vacation house is the same as the one that Jace said led to the peeing and spanking, since there weren't cameras present for the one Jace talked about.  So I do wonder if it isn't a case of David denying Kaiser permission to use the bathroom, but instead addressing a pattern of behavior, and Kaiser called his bluff, so to speak. 

I think there's a difference between a kid saying he has to go to the bathroom and being told no and then being punished for peeing uncontrollably (although who's to say he wasn't actually aiming--I know I would have been tempted) and a kid who uses "I have to go to the bathroom" as a stalling tactic and it becomes a contest, and I don't know what actually happened.  As usual. 

But what I do know is that none of this would be such a big issue if people didn't hit other people.

 

I drop by here only occasionally, but your post made me notice that I don't think he's being called Nipples anywhere near as much as he used to be.

Who knows what stage of potty training Kaiser is in at this stage, he could very well be delayed due to neglect.  Wetting ones self is also a common trait in abused children.  My 10 year old foster son has subsided but not totally stopped bed wetting (I realize different that Kai asking to got potty, but still).  And at the end of the day what can you do?  It’s a matter of cleaning the bedding, but I can’t be mad.  He (my son) gets all scared still after 2 years in my home when he wets the bed. I’m like it’s fine!  I would just rather know in the morning off the bat so I can get the sheets started in the wash. 

I’m off track.  Bottom line, Kaiser is headed on a sad road.  His bathroom habits are an indicator of his abuse (IMO). 

[NannyBails]

On 7/21/2018 at 8:45 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah, not to make this about disabled issues and all that but the world still isn’t that great at accessibility. So Ali and Corey and Leah will have to deal with that. Like for example a few episodes back when Leah said she and Gracie had to adjust the birthday party venue so Ali could have fun too(which side note still unsure if they did, but whatever) this may happen quite a few more times in the twins lives. There might be events or things Gracie wants to do and Ali might want to do that the parents might not be able to do because it’s not accessible for Ali. It’s hard. 

This post made me think ... why do Ali and Gracie have to share a birthday party?    Is anyone posting/reading here a twin?   Just wondering if twins are always expected to have one party for their birthdays?  I get that it's cheaper for the family and that they'd have to figure out how to do two parties (when to hold each party, for example), but it just makes more sense at some point to allow the twins to be individuals.  In this case, especially,  Gracie should get to have a party she enjoys and Ali should get a party she enjoys. 

Just like they both shouldn't HAVE to have the same activities.  It's been talked about on here before, but Leah could help Ali explore interests that don't involve running, jumping, etc.   There's plenty of family in that area, right, so it's not like there's trouble transporting each twin to their respective activities.   

[monagatuna]

Thank you guys for all the perspective on Kail's weight--I told you I'm bad at guessing weight! I forgot how tall she is, and I have an extremely skewed view of weight and body so I wasn't able to do the mental math needed to realize how much she must actually weigh.

[ghoulina]

16 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I agree, when you put it that way.

But I remember a scene a few episodes back, in the kitchen of a vacation house (in the snow? for Jenelle's birthday?) where everything was hectic and they were sitting down to eat and Kaiser said he had to go to the bathroom and David said no, and said something that made me think he said no because Kaiser has a habit of doing this as a stalling tactic, and he wasn't buying it and wanted him to sit down and eat.  Like when the Supernanny would be trying to teach people how to make their kids go to bed, and the kid would say he was thirsty, and the Supernanny would say he's just doing everything he can think of to buy time.

And I don't think that incident in the vacation house is the same as the one that Jace said led to the peeing and spanking, since there weren't cameras present for the one Jace talked about.  So I do wonder if it isn't a case of David denying Kaiser permission to use the bathroom, but instead addressing a pattern of behavior, and Kaiser called his bluff, so to speak. 

I think there's a difference between a kid saying he has to go to the bathroom and being told no and then being punished for peeing uncontrollably (although who's to say he wasn't actually aiming--I know I would have been tempted) and a kid who uses "I have to go to the bathroom" as a stalling tactic and it becomes a contest, and I don't know what actually happened.  As usual. 

But what I do know is that none of this would be such a big issue if people didn't hit other people.

I was very disturbed by that vacation home scene. I get kids using the potty as a stalling tactic. But if my kids  did that (my middle son tends to need to go #2 any time I ask them to start cleaning up), I'd let them go. I'm not going to deny them the bathroom. Especially at Kaiser's age. It just becomes a huge battle, and potty training is hard enough. 

But given what we know about all people involved, David just strikes me as the type of person who knows everything all the time. And he is going to know when Kaiser has to go to the bathroom and when doesn't - regardless of what is actually the case. He wants control. And he gets annoyed by the slightest inconvenience. Kaiser, OTOH, is probably struggling for a tiny bit of control himself. Look at how chaotic that home is. If the potty is the only way he can get it, I can't fault him. 

Say David wasn't a spanker. I would still be appalled if he had taken away Kaiser's favorite toy or sent him to his room for peeing himself. My husband once got the shit kicked out of him by a step-dad because he peed the bed at age 8 or 9. So maybe I'm overly sensitive about the issue. But I say just let kids go to the bathroom. 

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

Say David wasn't a spanker. I would still be appalled if he had taken away Kaiser's favorite toy or sent him to his room for peeing himself. My husband once got the shit kicked out of him by a step-dad because he peed the bed at age 8 or 9. So maybe I'm overly sensitive about the issue. But I say just let kids go to the bathroom. 

I agree. I think it’s cruel to deny a child water, toilet facilities, a bath or an actual meal (not dessert or a snack) as punishment. No they are a living being with basic dignity and should be allowed access to these things. 

I don’t understand the anger at bodily functions. Granted I grew up with a Tall Toddler who at 30 isn’t and probably will never been completely toilet trained. She wets the bed EVERY night. Chaos is when our washing machine goes out. When she was little my mom asked in a support group if she should wake her up and take her to the restroom, she was told “You have a child that sleeps straight though the night?!! I say take yourself to jcpenny during their sheet sale.”

David is such a nasty human being I bet he would find any excuse to hit Kaiser because he can. 

[Phoebe70]

I don't buy Nathan's friendliness and cheerfulness for a second.  He used to butt heads with Barb all the time, but now that Jenelle has David he's all of a sudden going out to lunch with Barb?  He's a con artist.  On camera he tries to downplay his criminal history.  He talks in a softer tone, even has the meek girlfriend who cries on cue when she hears Kaiser is being abused.  I don't buy Nathan's act at all.  I think he's almost (not quite) as scary as Jenelle and David.    Sure, he might be a better parent than those two yahoos, but that still doesn't mean he's a good parent, or person.  He's just the lesser of the two evils.  

[Court]

On 7/17/2018 at 6:45 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Maybe Paislee doesn’t know the phrase “step dad”....she’s 5? She may have meant step dad. Like how some children cannot tell the difference between step/half sibling for a while. 

Yes. My half brother honestly thought my mom was his mom too as far as he was concerned. It's confusing to a kid. He was all well she's my mom too so I'm going to visit too. He just thought we all had two moms. 

[monicageller]

On 7/21/2018 at 7:31 AM, LBS said:

Co-sign!  I hate, hate, hate being on her side but he was being SUCH an ass.  She doesn't owe him anything.   My respect for Javi nose-dived.

 

Watching Leah really enjoy and savor the Hawai'i trip was nice.  I'm glad she got to experience it. 

Would you say your feelings for him dropped?

[Bridget]

On 7/23/2018 at 6:35 AM, NannyBails said:

This post made me think ... why do Ali and Gracie have to share a birthday party?    Is anyone posting/reading here a twin?   Just wondering if twins are always expected to have one party for their birthdays?  I get that it's cheaper for the family and that they'd have to figure out how to do two parties (when to hold each party, for example), but it just makes more sense at some point to allow the twins to be individuals.  In this case, especially,  Gracie should get to have a party she enjoys and Ali should get a party she enjoys. 

Just like they both shouldn't HAVE to have the same activities.  It's been talked about on here before, but Leah could help Ali explore interests that don't involve running, jumping, etc.   There's plenty of family in that area, right, so it's not like there's trouble transporting each twin to their respective activities.   

Just read your post and I want to high five you!

Before I forget, I’m thankful the girlses aren’t identical. If they were, I believe Leah & Corey would be struggling even more with Ali’s MD for the simple reason that they wouldn’t be able to comprehend that a carbon copy of their “healthy child” needs a wheelchair every day. 

I’m a twin, but we are boy/girl twins. My mom was in an actual club called the “Mothers of Twins Club”,  so I grew up around many sets of twins who were the same gender and/or identical.

My brother and I had joint birthday parties until we were 5. I remember hating it. Absolutely hated it. It’s bad enough you have to share your birthday, but then to share the party? Sucked! When the clown showed up, I didn’t get to be the special helper. I had to share that with my brother. (I’m lucky my parents were able to afford a clown, I know.) 

Once we were in first grade and made our own friends, we celebrated the big “6” with separate parties. My mom is Scottish (which is also code for being thrifty with $ at times!), so she managed to throw us parties and it didn’t break the bank. My brother had his party at a bowling alley one year and I had a sleepover. This was also back during the glory days of proper goodie bags! We had one or two parties again once we were in middle school, but honestly, it was because we had an actual reason for having a co-ed party, which no one else had. 

With the other twins I knew, regardless of gender or identical/fraternal status, we all knew it was “special” to be a twin, but we were still separate people. None of us were ever in the same class as our twin either. It’s the worst thing a parent can do to their twins, yet it’s still done. Ahhh!

I remember being in high school and there were idiots who’d walk up to my (twin) friends and ask them outright: “Are you Keith or Kyle?” or “Are you Kevin or Scott?” Those guys did happen to play the same sport as their their brother, but they were the exception to the rule. Every other set of twins are night & day. We just happen to share a date of birth and were in the womb at the same time. 

I could be wrong, but isn’t Addie’s birthday really close to the girlses’ birthday? Is hers in January? I only bring this up because planning a separate party for the twinses isn’t a big deal if Leah has to plan Addie’s party the following month. 

If Ali and Gracie are in different classes (which I believe they finally are), they will/should have different friends, just like they’d have different friends if they were a few years apart. However, there is a part of me that wonders if Ali struggles to make friends due to a myriad of reasons, including the fact that she’s “different.” Looking at Leah’s priorities for the girlses, the idea of two separate parties could scare her as it might further highlight that Ali is different. WE know that’s not bad, but Leah is in denial. 

Something tells me that Gracie has tons of friends and Ali is the quiet girl at school who might not be the most outgoing person for a variety of reasons. Most kiddos don’t know how to initiate things with a peer who might be different than them because different = not like me =  no thanks. 

For example, if Ali had her own celebration, but only invited 1 or 2 friends for lunch and a movie, which we all know is a perfectly acceptable celebration, it won’t be the same as Gracie’s guest list or party. That glaring difference is going to remind Leah of Ali being different & needing different things. As others have posted, twins or not, Ali needs to have different options for activities and/or told “Sorry, Dr. Tsao, along with mom and dad all say that you cannot play softball because your muscles aren’t strong enough.” As we all have agreed, Leah does not come off as being well versed in how to meet the needs of a child who isn’t 100% heathy.

Aren’t there books for kiddos with MD that Ali should read/have read to her so she understands what’s going on with her?  Her parents needed to read some books and join support groups 5 years ago, but when I stop and think about Ali, I wonder if she even has any idea about her appts with Dr. Tsao, her 1:1 aide or why XYZ happens (in age appropriate language, of course)? Does anyone here have kiddos who have an IEP or who have special needs? Do you talk to them about medical/health issues or do they ever ask questions? I cannot help but think Ali wonders why she has a wheelchair but doesn’t use it. Or, she uses it more with dad and mom “doesn’t want her to use it.” Something along those lines.

She is falling down a lot, so does she know her parents are in denial and might be afraid to ask to use it? If so, that’s so sad. 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Bridget