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ElectricBoogaloo

S02.E13: The Word

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18 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Was that Queen he was listening to in his study?

I loved Emily's closeups both when she went from elated at stabbing Aunt Lydia to horrified, and when she was terrified almost to the point of vomiting in that backseat.

It was The Small Faces. And he was listening to the Eurythmics in the car. I'm not sure what's so strange about either.

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12 minutes ago, AnswersWanted said:

but I will still need them to be brought to justice and appropriately dealt with.

I would like something akin to the Nuremberg Trials for all those who participated in creating Gilead.

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I guess I'm also in the minority in that a) I mostly liked this episode, and b) yeah, I'm coming back for season 3.  That being said...

When the 4 handmaids were walking & chatting I swore Emily said that she "had" her first ceremony, as in past tense.  So when she went to get the knife and kneeled down, I thought she was going to slit her wrists or hari kari or something.  Then, when Lawrence called the ceremony off I realized the knife was for him.  OK, got it.  AB deserves an award for this episode.  She was amazing.

Mrs. Lawrence - I don't think she has a clue that Comm. Lawrence is part of the underground.  I think she's genuinely unhinged, and because of that he can't trust what she'll blurt out, so he continues to play the role of sadistic Commander in front of her, and doesn't let her in on what's really going on.  And I'm not sure even Cora knows.  Otherwise, why would she call for the ambulance?  She'd help deliver the final blow and then help in the cover up. 

My hope/guess for the start of Season 3 is that June will find her way back to Comm. Lawrence's house and hide out there.  (If so, it would make more sense for Cora & Mrs. L. to be in on all of this, so ignore what I said above.)  Season 3 concentrates more on the resistance, and June's on a mission to find Hannah.  Once that happens she'll get her butt to Canada.  I hope that's how Season 3 ends.  (Do you hear me show writers???)  Focusing on the resistance also keeps Nick in the picture, and they could have Serena switching sides to keep her character in play.  Otherwise, I'm not sure how the Waterfords would really figure in as regular characters. 

I also want to know if there was any blow back for Naomi or the other wives, but I think we'll never know and that plot line will be dropped along with the many others this past season.  Since they didn't read they'll have all their digits, but the husbands have to be pissed.  And scared - they never imagined so many wives coming together, so they will have to do something drastic to make sure that doesn't happen again. 

I think if I could have one wish granted by TPTB, it wouldn't be any issues with continuity or characters or world building.  It would be that they turn this into a regular fall/spring schedule.  I think they risk losing people just due to passage of time between seasons more than anything else.  Give us 20-26 episodes a year, divided into fall and spring season.  I can't think of any reason they can't do this. 

 

PS - one more wish... Aunt Lydia has to survive.  If they kill off Aunt Lydia without giving us her backstory I'll be really pissed. 

Edited by chaifan · Reason: Added the PS re: Aunt Lydia
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I HATE that June didn't let herself get rescued for "reasons," but at least with Emily escaping, she now has plausibility that Crazy Emily killed Lydia and stole her friend's baby before running away, and June somehow had nothing to do with it. June had better kill the fuck out of Fred when she goes back to the Waterford house though, otherwise, what the fuck is the point of her not-escape from the house? Serena is going to be wicked pissed at "her" baby not being with any of its mothers now though isn't she? Just hopefully not pissed enough to send someone after Emily to get her back. I think I'm ready for Season 3 to be the end of Gilead and this Tale though. There's only so much of Offred the Martyred I think we can handle. 

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7 hours ago, igotquestionstoo said:

Been lurking here a while - just a couple observations.

I think Serena's character isn't complex. It just represents human nature. If it doesn't directly affect us, we don't care (ask any black person living in the US whose ancestors have already lived Gilead).  Also, I find it very telling that everyone is cheering Lawrence as a hero - yay Lawrence! even though it is revealed that he engineered Gilead, but for Serena, who may be slowly coming around to see her error - off with her head! I can't forgive her! Let me be clear. I am not defending her - just pointing out the hypocrisy because Lawrence's wife has clearly observed some atrocious things, including the rape ceremony which at some point he probably took part in. Women are terribly unforgiving of other women and men somehow get a pass.

  Finally, as  mother, I could not actually live "free"in some country while a child of mine is left behind, so I understand June's choice. We have no evidence that Canada is doing anything except gathering info and offering asylum - which I am not downplaying.  But how many atrocities are occurring in the real world we live in that the world is silent about  or if raising awareness not actively resolving?- particularly when women are the main victims. Countries offer asylum when they get out, but movement to save people usually doesn't happen unless there is some economic benefit or economic danger to the (mostly) male leaders of these powerful nations. Sadly, the show reflects the world we live in but viewers are pissed that it is not giving them the satisfaction of resolving the issue quickly (in a year or two?). Slavery (of African people) went on for over 400 years people. The events surrounding the Holocaust - over 10.

As for June constantly escaping punishment, that is because Fred likes having her around for his sick purposes. He spares her to torment her and he has the power to do it. I agree that this one will be hard to come back from. Janine faced death for putting her baby in danger, so hiding or kidnapping a baby should draw death (unless by some plot twist Serena and Fred agree to pretend that they still have a baby).

I love your entire post. That’s all. 

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7 minutes ago, Baltimore Betty said:

I would like something akin to the Nuremberg Trials for all those who participated in creating Gilead.

 

Same here. I want the accountability part to be fully composed and shown from start to finish. I want the tone and effect to reflect the true seriousness of the matter at hand. 

I want these people exposed for who they are and all that they have done, with as many as their victims testifying as witnesses as possible. 

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I recognize thst June is the protagonist , so she had to stay to move the story forward. If she is up.in Canada it won't be much of a show. That said, from a purely objective view, once again june makes a dumb decision. I mean really, how much can she do as a handmaids running around Gilead? Clearly there is a resistance movement outside Gilead that is aiding and communicating with those on the inside. June possesses a ton of valuable information. She could do a check of a lot more good outside helping the resistance than on the inside. 

My prediction for season 3 is that things won't end well for Fred and the other commanders

 I can see the Martha's planning a simultaneous murder of Gilead s leaders. I think Lydia survives. I bet june finds bradley whittford and holes up at his place. Serena idk. Maybe she will kill fred. 

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5 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

 I can see the Martha's planning a simultaneous murder of Gilead s leaders. I think Lydia survives. I bet june finds bradley whittford and holes up at his place. Serena idk. Maybe she will kill fred. 

And the Marthas will inherit the earth.

Hey, if Gilead can rewrite the bible, so can I!  ;)

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While Canada might not be rescuing people, I bet there would be ex special forces who would be able to go in and get someone’s child out. The wives went about the reading issue the wrong way. They needed to talk to their husbands at home, not corner them together, where now they are defensive and have to prove themselves. Top from the bottom ladies. Make it about reading recipes and sewing/knitting/crochet patterns. They could even go the Amish route and educate girls up to a certain level. Let’s say a wife is going to have a big dinner, am I to believe the man is going to do all the math and figure out how much food they need and double/triple all the recipes? They already give permission for Aunt Lydia to write things in her role as midwife, so it seems they can be reasoned with. I know the show probably doesn’t want to go there, but I feel like there should be a lot more religion involved. Obviously the men aren’t doing their jobs if this 15 yo was reading the Bible. There would be church, man led bible studies, and at home there would be bible time led by the husband. 

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7 hours ago, igotquestionstoo said:

Been lurking here a while - just a couple observations.

I think Serena's character isn't complex. It just represents human nature. If it doesn't directly affect us, we don't care (ask any black person living in the US whose ancestors have already lived Gilead).  Also, I find it very telling that everyone is cheering Lawrence as a hero - yay Lawrence! even though it is revealed that he engineered Gilead, but for Serena, who may be slowly coming around to see her error - off with her head! I can't forgive her! Let me be clear. I am not defending her - just pointing out the hypocrisy because Lawrence's wife has clearly observed some atrocious things, including the rape ceremony which at some point he probably took part in. Women are terribly unforgiving of other women and men somehow get a pass.

  Finally, as  mother, I could not actually live "free"in some country while a child of mine is left behind, so I understand June's choice. We have no evidence that Canada is doing anything except gathering info and offering asylum - which I am not downplaying.  But how many atrocities are occurring in the real world we live in that the world is silent about  or if raising awareness not actively resolving?- particularly when women are the main victims. Countries offer asylum when they get out, but movement to save people usually doesn't happen unless there is some economic benefit or economic danger to the (mostly) male leaders of these powerful nations. Sadly, the show reflects the world we live in but viewers are pissed that it is not giving them the satisfaction of resolving the issue quickly (in a year or two?). Slavery (of African people) went on for over 400 years people. The events surrounding the Holocaust - over 10.

As for June constantly escaping punishment, that is because Fred likes having her around for his sick purposes. He spares her to torment her and he has the power to do it. I agree that this one will be hard to come back from. Janine faced death for putting her baby in danger, so hiding or kidnapping a baby should draw death (unless by some plot twist Serena and Fred agree to pretend that they still have a baby).

AGREE!  So well said.  Thank you for saying what I couldn’t...the whole giving Lawrence a pass but not Serena, spot on!  And why is everyone in such a hurry to see things wrapped up?   I loved both seasons but did have issue with some small things.  Also could never leave my daughter in gilead either, NEVER...also want to see something akin to the Nuremberg trials!

Edited by ClaireS
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2 hours ago, LordOfLotion said:

This is like the debate about the car seat a couple of weeks ago. This is war, not a garden party. When you have the opportunity to escape, you take it. The kid is not going to die in the back of the truck on the way to Canada. OTOH you can keep her right where she is and she can grow up to lose a body part, never learn to read, maybe get drowned in a pool, get sent to the colonies, be married off to an old man when she's still a child, or all kinds of other horrific things. If it takes longer, improvise. Get a bottle of milk. Put some honey on a pacifier. Figure something out. Or you can keep waiting for the perfect time when you have everything you need and everything is perfectly clear-- that's never going to happen. There's always a reason to stay mired in misery, but there are a million reasons to run to freedom.

Slow clap!! (Love the Gone with the Wind quote by the way!)

The baby will be fine until they get to Canada. This is not a trip to Target, this is life or death. @igotquestionstoo I also understand why June couldn’t leave. Hannah JUST asked her not a few weeks ago why June didn’t try harder to get her back. Hannah is absorbing all of Gilead’s oppressive propaganda every day. Holly Nicole is a baby who won’t have any memory  of this horrid place, but Hannah most certainly will. I’m not a mother but I can see as mother why June couldn’t live in freedom knowing Hannah was in Gilead. 

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7 hours ago, igotquestionstoo said:

I think Serena's character isn't complex. It just represents human nature. If it doesn't directly affect us, we don't care (ask any black person living in the US whose ancestors have already lived Gilead).  Also, I find it very telling that everyone is cheering Lawrence as a hero - yay Lawrence! even though it is revealed that he engineered Gilead, but for Serena, who may be slowly coming around to see her error - off with her head! I can't forgive her! Let me be clear. I am not defending her - just pointing out the hypocrisy because Lawrence's wife has clearly observed some atrocious things, including the rape ceremony which at some point he probably took part in. Women are terribly unforgiving of other women and men somehow get a pass.

 

Here's my personal take...  I'm not cheering for Lawrence because I think he should be redeemed, or I'm less harsh on him as a man than I would be on women, but because he's an interesting character.  The rest of the characters were getting a bit one-note, or as others have commented, so flip flop inconsistent it was frustrating.  Lawrence gave us something new, and also (now confirmed) a possible glimpse into the resistance that we thought we'd be getting through Nick.  As for Serena, I'm hoping for her to switch sides not because I think she deserves redemption, but because it would be an interesting plot line and show us things we haven't seen yet. 

Also, it's Bradley Whitford.  I want to give him a pass because I want him on my tv screen as much as possible! 

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20 hours ago, Hollandaise said:

Why would she say to call the baby Nicole?! Is she forgetting how much she hates Serena? 

That was entirely baffling.

20 hours ago, NoSpam said:

There was no part of that episode that didn't suck.

Emily stabbing Lydia was pretty high on my list. It was the first truly surprising moment (for me) this season, I think. I was hoping Serena, Rita, or June (or maybe all three) would do away with Fred, but no such luck.

At some point while going through the posts, it occurred to me that this show might be more interesting if each season the ensemble shifted and played different characters in different Gilead scenarios. Sort of like American Horror Story. That way they wouldn't have to come with reasons to keep June in one place - they could hang her from the wall, if they wanted. Everyone could do something fresh, and wouldn't need to get bogged down in what was good for a "ten" year arc.

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48 minutes ago, NoSpam said:

If she'd heard you, she'd have gazed out a window.

June the resistance fighter? Like I said in the Spoiler thread, two weeks ago she couldn't get out of a garage.

 

This entire episode was about getting rid of the baby. I expect to never hear about her again, other than some hand waving BS.

I said I could get on board with it.....can’t say I’m expecting it!! ;)

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21 hours ago, OptimisticCynic said:

I also noticed a blooper during the handmaid walk. There was a breeze which blew Emily’s cape open and she definitely had something underneath that wasn’t red.

It also looked like June was wearing khaki pants under her red robes at one of the scenes at the house.

21 hours ago, Hollandaise said:

Why would she say to call the baby Nicole?! Is she forgetting how much she hates Serena? 

This frustrates me more than anything else in this episode. I can only assume Emily didn't know the baby's name (either 'Nicole' or 'Holly'), but June deciding for Emily to call the kid Nicole felt so wrong.

2 hours ago, LordOfLotion said:

This is like the debate about the car seat a couple of weeks ago. This is war, not a garden party. When you have the opportunity to escape, you take it. The kid is not going to die in the back of the truck on the way to Canada. OTOH you can keep her right where she is and she can grow up to lose a body part, never learn to read, maybe get drowned in a pool, get sent to the colonies, be married off to an old man when she's still a child, or all kinds of other horrific things. If it takes longer, improvise. Get a bottle of milk. Put some honey on a pacifier. Figure something out. Or you can keep waiting for the perfect time when you have everything you need and everything is perfectly clear-- that's never going to happen. There's always a reason to stay mired in misery, but there are a million reasons to run to freedom.

I get your point (and for the most part agree with it), but FFS do NOT put honey on a pacifier. That leads to botulism (just saw a case a couple of months ago with that exact scenario - parents thought honey on the pacifier would be a good way to calm the kid down). Sugar-water will do just fine. I also have very little faith in Gilead's pasteurization industry, but even pasteurized honey should not be given to infants. It's not like honey is so plentiful/accessible that it could conceivably be the only source of sugar for the baby. There would be other options.

2 hours ago, jmnf19 said:

Thank you. I thought it was Wednesday that it was shown, not Tuesday.

It is released on Hulu at 12:01 am EST on Wed (which happens to be 9 pm PST on Tues).

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I wonder if Lawrence is supposed to be like a Schindler - someone originally aligned and working for a regime that ultimately uses his power and access to save people. 

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52 minutes ago, chaifan said:

Here's my personal take...  I'm not cheering for Lawrence because I think he should be redeemed, or I'm less harsh on him as a man than I would be on women, but because he's an interesting character.  The rest of the characters were getting a bit one-note, or as others have commented, so flip flop inconsistent it was frustrating.  Lawrence gave us something new, and also (now confirmed) a possible glimpse into the resistance that we thought we'd be getting through Nick.  As for Serena, I'm hoping for her to switch sides not because I think she deserves redemption, but because it would be an interesting plot line and show us things we haven't seen yet. 

Also, it's Bradley Whitford.  I want to give him a pass because I want him on my tv screen as much as possible! 

He’s a fun actor to watch.

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Here is a thing that was pointed out to me and is a trope that I wouldn’t expect from this show...why dis they choose to connect the change of heart to motherhood?

All the commanders’ wives feel softened when confronted by the potential futures of their daughters?

I could say that in many cases, an adoptive parent has considered and planned these futures for longer than a lot of biological parents. They’re not caught off guard by a newborn, they’ve wanted a child and imagined all they can offer a child for much longer than someone who becomes unexpectedly pregnant. 

Although the use of this “motherhood changed me!” trope isn’t unexpected in light of who is running the show and what we’ve seen this season, it’s another small disappointment to me. 

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7 minutes ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

Here is a thing that was pointed out to me and is a trope that I wouldn’t expect from this show...why dis they choose to connect the change of heart to motherhood?

All the commanders’ wives feel softened when confronted by the potential futures of their daughters?

I could say that in many cases, an adoptive parent has considered and planned these futures for longer than a lot of biological parents. They’re not caught off guard by a newborn, they’ve wanted a child and imagined all they can offer a child for much longer than someone who becomes unexpectedly pregnant. 

Although the use of this “motherhood changed me!” trope isn’t unexpected in light of who is running the show and what we’ve seen this season, it’s another small disappointment to me. 

In Serena's case, it was also watching an innocent young girl first forced to marry, and then to die horribly.  Speaking of that, the scene with Serena and the wives would have made MUCH more sense if the crowd witnessing Eden's death were much bigger, and they had been there too.  As if that wasn't bad enough, later finding her own father turned her in, and her husband praised that, AND how devoutly Eden read and tried to understand her Bible?  Well, all of that, and having one's finger chopped off for reading a Bible passage might change your mind about your current life course, and certainly about the possible future for you daughter.

Edited by Umbelina
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The powers that be really don't want me to know what's happening.  As if the whispered dialogue isnt bad enough, now my closed captioning is in Spanish (yes, I have English selected). Unless someone asks for one beer or where is the door, I'm screwed.

Edited by QQQQ
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5 hours ago, Joana said:

This is such a grotesque oversight that I cannot fathom how that scene ever got approved and made it to screen. June has absolutely NO way of knowing where they're going, how long they're going to travel and if they'll have to stop and hide somewhere along the way. What is the baby going to eat in the meantime? They're going to stop by at the local grocery store to get some formula? How could she not think about it?!

 

High stress and extreme circumstances, banking on at least the baby will be safe if anyone is caught? That’s what I tell myself, but I agree with you they should have had a line in their somewhere. Even if it was just “Emily, protect her” followed by Intense Eye Contact, we all know EM has that down to a science. June of all people knows you can get stuck for three months in an abandoned building relying on sporadic shipments of food. She was taking so damn long to make a decision I was like wtf is she doing going on a vision quest right now, she knows what’s up with Gilead escapes

Exposition, excessive or lack thereof, is one of my biggest pet peeves. This show and The Walking Dead are the biggest offenders right now. Lots of long looks and very little acknowledgement of major changes to canon. 

Edited by The Mighty Peanut
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1 hour ago, poeticlicensed said:

I recognize thst June is the protagonist , so she had to stay to move the story forward. If she is up.in Canada it won't be much of a show.

This is true, but I think a lot of people don’t think this story really *needs* more than 2 seasons. A lot of filler happened this season IMO. Unless they moved on to the stories of other Gileadeans, I don’t think June has much more to do than attempt to escape, be caught, and escape again.

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5 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Was anyone else reminded of the Underground Railroad when the train showed up as the Martha's helped June escape? I think that was the purpose of the train in the scene. Marthas as Harriet Tubman. 

I wasn’t. And if that’s what the writers were going for, they clearly don’t know about “Moses.” Ms. Tubman carried a pistol and threatened to shoot anybody who even thought of turning back. June’s ass would’ve been in that Hummer or dead under that bridge.

I just realized that the wives’ ugly teal dresses have different designs. The skittish wife had an elaborate knit thing going on with hers and Serena had both a boat neck and a v-neck. I know the wives knit a bunch, but who is making these standard issued uniforms? Mexico? The wives? The marthas? Or do they buy them at the Gilead Mall, Teal House/Drab Market?

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19 minutes ago, QQQQ said:

The powers that be really don't want me to know what's happening.  As if the whispered dialogue isnt bad enough, now my closed captioning is in Spanish (yes, I have English selected). Unless someone asks for one beer or where is the door, I'm screwed.

I fixed it by going in and switching it to Spanish. That seemed to turn the English back on. Weird, I know.

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31 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

In Serena's case, it was also watching an innocent young girl first forced to marry, and then to die horribly.  Speaking of that, the scene with Serena and the wives would have made MUCH more sense if the crowd witnessing Eden's death were much bigger, and they had been there too.  As if that wasn't bad enough, later finding her own father turned her in, and her husband praised that, AND how devoutly Eden read and tried to understand her Bible?  Well, all of that, and having one's finger chopped off for reading a Bible passage might change your mind about your current life course, and certainly about the possible future for you daughter.

Serena's finger was cut off after they advanced the plan for reading, so that didn't play into her changing her mind about women reading. 

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4 minutes ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

Serena's finger was cut off after they advanced the plan for reading, so that didn't play into her changing her mind about women reading. 

True.  I think Serena has always missed reading though, and writing.  I know about season one's statement about the Scrabble game, but honestly continuity on this show sucks.  I think it was one blow for a better world for her daughter, and probably for herself.  Many don't care about oppression until if impacts them or someone they love, at this point in history, I might even say "most" don't.

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I"m hoping Commander Lawrence is like the Galen Erso of Gilead,  he helped create it, but built it with a flaw that can be exploited and then blown up by one person like the Death Star.  I love the character and would also watch Bradley Whitford read a phone book because he's just that good.  Alexis Bledel was killing it for me this episode. You could feel every ounce of her trauma and terror without her having to say a thing. The whole scene in the car just felt extremely claustrophobic because there was one of two ways that car ride could have gone.  The only thing that would have made her take down of Aunt Lydia better would have been if Janine had been there to get some stabs in, that girl has earned it too! Serena Joy's character has been all over the place this season where she's conflicted as in this is not the life she wanted, but could give a shit less if it's the life that other women were forced into when they didn't want it either, but she's doubled down on her bad decisions and is still all in with Gilead. Then suddenly the execution of a teenager that she barely knew and getting her finger cut off (you're not immune to the repercussions of Gilead either Serena Joy) suddenly she's okay with giving up the baby which has been so much of her character motivation for the whole show. All the Martha's and Nick risked a lot to get June out of Gilead and she doesn't get in the van? WTF? June, go to Canada, regroup, get your daughter to safety (Emily would not know Luke or Moira if she ran into them on the street FFS), get resources together and then you can storm the castle and get Hannah back.  Commander Fred's "affection" will only extend so far as he's an abusive asshole, so at the end of the day, June is as expendable as the kleenex he uses to wipe himself off with after the ceremony. He's not going to go to bat for her, and now she's basically a fugitive with no plan, no resources, and an extremely short-list of allies because if I was one of the Marthas that helped out (which I wouldn't be, if Gilead ever happens I'd be sent to the colonies on the first bus) it would take a lot of convincing to get me to stick my neck out again.  

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I get June's logic in staying even though it was the dumbest decision she made yet. I highly doubt Waterford's offer still stands after she kidnapped Nichole. What if she gets pregnant again or is sent to the colonies? Staying wouldn't have helped one bit. June's escape attempts were orchestrated by other people who risked their lives for her. She cannot come up with a plan on her own so how does she intend to save Hannah and herself when she has no power? Next season, maybe Commander Lawrence will help her get into contact with Hannah without the Waterford's help.

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This show literally gives me a stomach ache. I can't even enjoy a snack when I'm watching it. 

Logic tells me June will never escape so long as Elisabeth Moss wants to stay on the show. But the relentless disappointment has me wondering if I can continue to watch more seasons.

I've hung in there with a lot of series that steadily declined. The characters and the stories kept me coming back. But on this show, I don't see how the main character's stories can ever NOT end in disappointment. That is, until the last episode of the final season.

I'm honestly hoping/wishing they'd call it a day after the 3rd. Because fucking frustrating.

1 hour ago, QQQQ said:

The powers that be really don't want me to know what's happening.  As if the whispered dialogue isnt bad enough, now my closed captioning is in Spanish (yes, I have English selected). Unless someone asks for one beer or where is the door, I'm screwed.

 

Same thing is happening to me on Roku. Hulu is apparently aware of the issue and are working on a fix according to a reddit thread.

Sometimes as @mamadrama mentioned, I can fix it by switching to Spanish, turning subtitles off, turning them back on, rinse, repeat. 

Edited by FierceCritter
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I'm sorry but June's constant need to take reflective pauses during urgent escapes makes me want to punch her right in the face. I'm constantly yelling "Just go! Just go!" Good grief, she is maddening.

I figured the nutty professor worked for the resistance (the clues were endless), but the Martha network was a nice surprise. Emily's attack on Lydia gave me a gleeful flashback of when Elizabeth gave Claudia that savage beat-down on "The Americans."

Edited by numbnut
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My first thought is that the baby will starve without June or formula.  Also, I thought she would have a better chance getting Hannah out from Canada.  I would have never changed the baby's name to Nicole.  That's just stupid.  Sure, Serena loved the kid, I guess, but that doesn't give her naming rights.   I saw no bonding between June and Serena that warranted the name change.  She saw a young girl die, got her finger chopped off, and "now" she's willing to give up that kid?  Sorry, Serena, you saw many signs of the inequality and downright brutal treatment of women before that.  Why these women think they are safe as "wives" blows me away.  I still can't see that large of a group of women just succumbing to the "inferiority" bestowed upon them by these men.  I would have died quickly. lol  I just don't know if season 3 can hold my attention at all.

Another thing, if you are hiding and car lights can shine on you, take off the bright white bonnet or whatever it is.

Edited by kelslamu
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I know this has probably been gone over, but I still cannot for the life of me understand how Serena can call Holly her own child.  Is she just that much in denial, wants to fit in with the ideology of Gilead that much, or just that selfish and evil to not care about anyone but herself.  Probably all of them.  

Edited by kelslamu
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I wonder if Commander Lawrence is hiding his wife so that no one sees her as crazy.  Would she be deemed useless and sent to The Colonies that the commander himself created?  I didn't read the book, so probably far off the mark. 

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I don't agree that June's  "Call her Nichole" is in any way some kind of remembrance or homage to Serena. June is remembering/honoring Nick, the baby's father. She is giving him the only place in his daughter's life she can give him, and giving her daughter a clue to who her father is.

Now as for what Serena's motives were in naming the baby Nichole... My opinion is that it was a none-too-subtle slap at Fred. If Gilead uses the tradition that a mother names the child, Fred would be stuck with it. Big "if" there, I admit.

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13 minutes ago, kelslamu said:

I wonder if Commander Lawrence is hiding his wife so that no one sees her as crazy.  Would she be deemed useless and sent to The Colonies that the commander himself created?  I didn't read the book, so probably far off the mark. 

I think that's an amazing insight, actually.

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On 7/10/2018 at 11:05 PM, Umbelina said:

This show must be tough to watch if you hate Serena and hate June.

Personally, I enjoy them both.  Serena is not one note, she's complicated, and no, I don't believe she EVER wanted Gilead to be like this.  It took Eden's death and considering her daughter's future to push her into action, but hopefully she stays in action from now on.  First up?  Nail Fred's ass.

It's time for Fred to go hang on the wall, just let June meet with Hannah one more time first.

I don't blame June for staying behind for Hannah.  I would do the same, I'm certain of it.  No one in Canada has done squat to rescue Hannah.  The only slight chance is a rescue from within.

I agree though, and I hope the reviewers nail the head writer for his lack of follow through, and also realize they can't just keep hitting reset.

Put June with the Commander Lawrence, he'll help her get Hannah out if anyone will.

Also, writers, pay him whatever it take to get him back next season.

YES!!

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6 hours ago, Umbelina said:

It was on at 9PM PST last night.

I googled.  About 4 hours, with traffic.

She knows she could be killed, and will be raped and possibly even lose body parts.  Her daughter getting out is more important to her.

Right, but she can't get Hannah out if she's dead. That's what I was getting at.

6 hours ago, LordOfLotion said:

You're right. There are no guarantees that they will make it that far, or anywhere. But there's a guarantee that Emily is going to have something horrible happen to her in Gilead, and it won't be much better for Nicole. Should they sit there and wait for it, or should they try to escape?

Not at all. I wanted her to get into that van and go with them.

6 hours ago, Tesla said:

So they spend the whole season driving the point home that they need June and her breastmilk to feed the baby (implying that formula is not an option) and then June just hands her baby off to someone completely unprepared with no way to feed her and no idea how long they'll be traveling? Whatever, show.  

This was also what I was thinking of. 

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1 hour ago, numbnut said:

I'm sorry but June's constant need to take reflective pauses during urgent escapes make me want to punch her right in the face. I'm constantly yelling "Just go! Just go!" 

Me too. I rarely yell at what I'm watching, but I said "MOVE!!!" loudly, as I was watching at gone 5am, with headphones on. (oops.)

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I won't bother repeating what y'all have said so eloquently already (because fuck yes to the ridiculousness of the note on the wall and the slow-mo walk to the van and everything else), but I will say this:

Congratulations, guys. I'm raising my glass for all of us that sat through all of these tedious reset episodes. We made it through 3839860982 close-ups of June's pores. We made it through the "Will she or won't she?" Serena rebellion storyline. We made it through all the stupid decisions that the characters made. As June puts it so well at the end of every episode "Fuck 'em." We did it. 

Also, I totally expect Aunt Lydia to be standing there without a scratch on her in Season Three, Episode One and she'll have some lame Nick-like story. "There was an issue. We took care of it. Pay no attention to the steak knife in my back."

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I've just seen the hashtag for this on twitter. This one just made me laugh.

 

All of the posts I've seen so far, are just like this thread. 

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On 7/11/2018 at 8:31 AM, Empress1 said:

I'd actually assume her wife remarried, or at least has emotionally moved on. I think it's been three years since they saw each other (Emily said Oliver is turning 7 and I think he was 4 when they tried to flee), and they probably haven't had any contact since, with no hope of having contact since. I would hope her son remembers her though. 

Fred looked like Mr. Burns at the council meeting. Serena stays thinking that Fred gives a fuck about her. He doesn't. He's gone. The goal of those in power is to remain in power. That's all he cares about. She's the same way except with far, far fewer options - she's not one of them and never will be. And after she showed him up in front of the council, there was no way he was letting her get away with that. When she asked "What did the others say?" I thought, "They told him he better get his wife all the way together."

Yeah. Prisoners do work out a lot. I'm into fitness, so I'd probably be doing push-ups and crunches and squats and tricep dips and yoga in my copious spare time. It's literally the only one of my hobbies I'd be able to even attempt to do in Gilead, and even that would be limited. I guess I could help with cooking?

Emily stabbing and beating Aunt Lydia's ass was everything I needed. And Lydia looked terrified, which she deserved. I also loved that when Emily realized what was happening she BOLTED for the van, like "HELL YEAH FUCK THIS LET'S GO."

I wish we could see more Lawrence.

The escape was exciting to watch, the Martha relay. I was spoiled, but I assumed June wasn't going back to the Waterford's. How could she? I don't know where she'll go. I don't think SHE knows where she'll go. The Resistance here is underground (and I LOVE that it's the Marthas, taking some of their power back. I was hoping to see the neonatologist), so she can't just be like "I AM JOINING THE RESISTANCE, WHO NEEDS ME?"

The story in which I am least invested now is June's, as she's choosing this and it's so narratively stupid. I want to see Emily on the road. Actually, I would totally watch an Emily spin-off.

 

Maybe June will be hit by a truck while she walks away and then we can focus on Emily's story. :-D I loved Emily's scenes today, as I usually do, her range of emotions after attacking Aunt Lydia were perfect. 

Edited by ferjy
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I wonder if Rita was always part of the resistance or if she joined after Eden was executed. She expressed a lot of guilt and regret at not helping her.

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On 7/11/2018 at 5:36 AM, Anela said:

I'm watching this, and just got to the part whereFred says they can try for a boy, "it could be fun". Ugh!!!

I know that Ann Dowd is amazing, but go Emily!! That was painful to watch, but after all Lydia has put them through, I don't blame her for snapping. It looked like the knife was for the commander and his wife (if she was to be involved in the ceremony). 

Really. "It could be fun." What an utter ass. I was hoping June would one-up Emily and knife Waterford then kick him around the kitchen a few times. 

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8 hours ago, NoSpam said:

If she'd heard you, she'd have gazed out a window.

With a grimace on her face. I'm so tired of those same facial expressions.

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On 7/11/2018 at 1:22 AM, mamadrama said:

My viewing party is pissed that June stayed. After all that work the Marthas went through...

I heart Com. Lawrence, though. Wouldn't have minded more of him.

They get a big name like Bradley Whitford in and that's all we get to see of him? Instead we get more of Elizabeth Moss's grimaces.

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7 hours ago, charmed1 said:

I wasn’t. And if that’s what the writers were going for, they clearly don’t know about “Moses.” Ms. Tubman carried a pistol and threatened to shoot anybody who even thought of turning back. June’s ass would’ve been in that Hummer or dead under that bridge.

I don't think they know much of anything but I do think they wanted the analogy.

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17 minutes ago, ferjy said:

They get a big name like Bradley Whitford in and that's all we get to see of him? Instead we get more of Elizabeth Moss's grimaces.

Yes, another waste of a talented actor and don't forget how they gave just a few minutes of screen time to Marisa Tomei. 

Emily hit the Trifecta! A Wife, a Commander (in a round about way) and an Aunt!

Did anyone else wonder why when June handed Emily the baby she told her to call her Nicole?  I would think in the free world she would have wanted the baby to be named Holly, after her mother.

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I think I am the only one but I am not impressed by Commander Lawrence. Yes, he helped and seems to be on the side of the resistance but the sarcasm, the one-liners, it all seemed a little forced to me. I am not a big fan of the actor, he always sounds like Josh Lyman to me, but it felt like he had more scenes and they got cut during editing. His refusal to go on with the ceremonial rape was too quick and casual. On the other hand, it emphasized Emily's reaction so maybe it was for the best. AB owned the episode. Her reaction after stabbing Aunt Lydia was perfect, all the emotions in one short scene.

Snarking now: after the car leaves with Emily and Holly, and June lifts her head and puts the hood on, I saw a Sith and fully expected the Star Wars theme to play at the end credits.

EM facial expressions: They need to stop because not only it is getting boring, it is also showing the actor's lack of repertoire. There was a moment before she decided to stay, she was walking with Holly towards the car and her face was supposed to show  hope, victory, a good feeling. But it was the same face of defeated, complacent, compliant June when she was returned to the Waterford's house after her Boston Globe/plane attempted escape. Two very different feelings, one face. Nope. It does not work. 

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23 hours ago, igotquestionstoo said:

Been lurking here a while - just a couple observations.

I think Serena's character isn't complex. It just represents human nature. If it doesn't directly affect us, we don't care (ask any black person living in the US whose ancestors have already lived Gilead).  Also, I find it very telling that everyone is cheering Lawrence as a hero - yay Lawrence! even though it is revealed that he engineered Gilead, but for Serena, who may be slowly coming around to see her error - off with her head! I can't forgive her! Let me be clear. I am not defending her - just pointing out the hypocrisy because Lawrence's wife has clearly observed some atrocious things, including the rape ceremony which at some point he probably took part in. Women are terribly unforgiving of other women and men somehow get a pass.

  Finally, as  mother, I could not actually live "free"in some country while a child of mine is left behind, so I understand June's choice. We have no evidence that Canada is doing anything except gathering info and offering asylum - which I am not downplaying.  But how many atrocities are occurring in the real world we live in that the world is silent about  or if raising awareness not actively resolving?- particularly when women are the main victims. Countries offer asylum when they get out, but movement to save people usually doesn't happen unless there is some economic benefit or economic danger to the (mostly) male leaders of these powerful nations. Sadly, the show reflects the world we live in but viewers are pissed that it is not giving them the satisfaction of resolving the issue quickly (in a year or two?). Slavery (of African people) went on for over 400 years people. The events surrounding the Holocaust - over 10.

As for June constantly escaping punishment, that is because Fred likes having her around for his sick purposes. He spares her to torment her and he has the power to do it. I agree that this one will be hard to come back from. Janine faced death for putting her baby in danger, so hiding or kidnapping a baby should draw death (unless by some plot twist Serena and Fred agree to pretend that they still have a baby).

Of course, but what can she do in her position in Gilead? She is very limited in how she can help Hannah with her current status. I would escape to Canada and if nothing can be done from there, then sneak back into Gilead, but prepared. Weapons, people to help her, a decent plan. She could accomplish more as a warrior than a helpless handmaid. Ninja June! I might even give her some slack on pulling a face now and again.

Edited by ferjy
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