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Driad

Team Asteroid Clubhouse

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It seems that quite a few of us are on Team Asteroid, whether we joined last season or recently.  Here is a place to discuss, in general, why the Earth and all the "Salvation" characters should be destroyed.  Other opinions are also welcome, for amusement at least.

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For me, there are just too many conspiracies: the Russians, Resyst, Presidential coup and I can't figure out why they aren't all working together to, you know, SAVE THE EARTH.

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Now I'm picturing Season 3: After the Asteroid, in which we see Grace, Darius, and (if he survives) Harris dressed in the garb of Fred and Wilma Flintstone. Jillian and her flock have blasted off in Darius's ship, which has been hacked! by Re/Syst. 

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2 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

For me, there are just too many conspiracies: the Russians, Resyst, Presidential coup and I can't figure out why they aren't all working together to, you know, SAVE THE EARTH.

Agreed, it makes no sense at all to focus the show on a terrorist group blackmailing the US government when there's an asteroid incoming.

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8 hours ago, AngelKitty said:

For me, there are just too many conspiracies: the Russians, Resyst, Presidential coup and I can't figure out why they aren't all working together to, you know, SAVE THE EARTH.

That's actually the bit that seems most sadly real to me - I find it only too easy to believe that, faced with an earth-shattering disaster, the governments of the world would be too paralysed by in-fighting and jockeying for position to be able to cooperate. Some would want to work together, sure, but others would seek to take advantage to further their own agendas. The history of the world is a pretty good case in point, really - so is the current political position of far too many nations. Mankind is very good at sabotaging its own best interests.

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I did like the advertisement for the post apocalyptic, multi-story shelter at the beginning of this week's episode.  So smarmy. 

I also would love to see the asteroid diverted, only for it to crash into the moon instead, thereby destroying all tidal activity in the world and the attendant consequences.

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Yes, that was another thing that made me laugh! The entire world just found out about the asteroid and someone has already built a luxury bomb shelter? 

Edited by Rachel RSL
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I believe the cost was $5 million per family.  It seemed a little pricey, but then the dollar was probably going to be worthless after the asteroid hit, so probably money well spent.

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5 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Yes, that was another thing that made me laugh! The entire world just found out about the asteroid and someone has already built a luxury bomb shelter? 

I wasn't watching too closely (and my TV is old and tiny) but I thought the commercial for the bomb shelter was supposed to be CGI'd. Or maybe it was just bad CGI and wasn't supposed to look like CGI?

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"The problem here is that the Russkies might just invest in some of these condos, and stash a few bombs in them instead of people.  Then, if the whole world isn't destroyed, they could come out and take over!  Mr. Vice-President, we must not allow a luxury underground condo gap!!!"

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I'm willing to start a crowdfunding program to bring Elizabeth Jennings back from Moscow.  There needs to be some wholesale killin' done around here.

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3 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I'm willing to start a crowdfunding program to bring Elizabeth Jennings back from Moscow.  There needs to be some wholesale killin' done around here.

If you want wholesale killin', you want Jamie from Zoo. 

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I'm concerned there are weeks and weeks left and this season has covered so little time so far that we may not know the outcome for a couple more summers, LOL.

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I'm glad you mentioned that because I'm actually confused about how much time has passed since the beginning of the series and now. Maybe someone smarter than me can remind me: How much longer until the asteroid hits?

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5 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I'm glad you mentioned that because I'm actually confused about how much time has passed since the beginning of the series and now. Maybe someone smarter than me can remind me: How much longer until the asteroid hits?

I think about 4 months? The d-day count was in the 120s at the start of this season, and I think it's been maybe a couple of weeks since then now?

They should have a d-day count at the start of each episode!

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Can anyone recommend a reasonably tolerable movie or show that has a good "asteroid destroys Earth" scene?  Then if we give up on Salvation, or if it doesn't end with a Boom, we can watch that instead.

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On 7/17/2018 at 5:59 PM, Driad said:

Can anyone recommend a reasonably tolerable movie or show that has a good "asteroid destroys Earth" scene?  Then if we give up on Salvation, or if it doesn't end with a Boom, we can watch that instead.

“Seeking a Friend for the End of the World” involves an asteroid and is pretty good.

If you’re looking for other end of the world movies, “Last Night” from 1998 is about an unexplained extinction event where people know exactly when it will happen. 

Edited by dangwoodchucks
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On July 17, 2018 at 4:59 PM, Driad said:

Can anyone recommend a reasonably tolerable movie or show that has a good "asteroid destroys Earth" scene?  Then if we give up on Salvation, or if it doesn't end with a Boom, we can watch that instead.

I vaguely recall the Stargate SG1 episode "Fail Safe" being a good one, and in it the award winning, somewhat A-list cast movie Armageddon is referenced (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0709086/ , https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120591/ ).

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Not sure if it's streaming anywhere but the 1 season series "You, Me and the Apocalypse" ** was pretty good, IMO. It was really uneven, ranging from brilliant to batshit crazy and Megan Mullally should never, ever try to do a Southern accent again but it was super fun (and sad and touching) in a way that Salvation isn't anymore.  

** Definitely not recommended for those who must always take matters of faith, prophecy and religion seriously.  

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23 minutes ago, tessaray said:

Not sure if it's streaming anywhere but the 1 season series "You, Me and the Apocalypse" ** was pretty good, IMO. It was really uneven, ranging from brilliant to batshit crazy and Megan Mullally should never, ever try to do a Southern accent again but it was super fun (and sad and touching) in a way that Salvation isn't anymore.  

** Definitely not recommended for those who must always take matters of faith, prophecy and religion seriously.  

Yeah, Salvation is pretty much turning into a political thriller, the asteroid just feels more like a distant afterthought especially with the latest episodes.

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I have an idea that will spare the Earth.  Make the asteroid sentient, so that when it looks down at the little rock in the galaxy, it will say to itself "There is no way I am crashing into that little speck down there with all that insanity.  If I get those little ants on me, I will be infected forever.  Ugh.  Shift left."

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22 hours ago, Free said:

Yeah, Salvation is pretty much turning into a political thriller, the asteroid just feels more like a distant afterthought especially with the latest episodes.

I get that the writers thought they needed subplots, because watching Tanz et al stand around thinking about what to do about the asteroid is less than exciting for TV.  And there have been several shows and movies about how the average person reacts to this kind of looming disaster.

 I’m stymied by why the VP/fake President tried the coup.  What’s the benefit, to be the president for 4 months and then boom!  I'm assuming he did the planning starting before they learned about the asteroid, but then I’d like to know why he did it.  Or maybe not, because he’s too one note to care about.

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2 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

I get that the writers thought they needed subplots, because watching Tanz et al stand around thinking about what to do about the asteroid is less than exciting for TV.  And there have been several shows and movies about how the average person reacts to this kind of looming disaster.

 I’m stymied by why the VP/fake President tried the coup.  What’s the benefit, to be the president for 4 months and then boom!  I'm assuming he did the planning starting before they learned about the asteroid, but then I’d like to know why he did it.  Or maybe not, because he’s too one note to care about.

Well, none of it has any consequences because of the asteroid so any plans coming from the 'civil war' or hacker group are void of any tension because of said looming asteroid.

As for the storylines, it kinda felt like Tanz was being pushed into being the next President role, especially after how fast he was already made VP.

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53 minutes ago, Free said:

As for the storylines, it kinda felt like Tanz was being pushed into being the next President role, especially after how fast he was already made VP.

Ha. Is it bad that I kind of want this to happen, now you've suggested it? I mean, Darius is already upset about being vice president, can you even imagine! "All I ever wanted to do was run my business and build stuff! I am terrible at politics, why do people keep promoting me?!?!?!"

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5 hours ago, Free said:

Well, none of it has any consequences because of the asteroid so any plans coming from the 'civil war' or hacker group are void of any tension because of said looming asteroid.

That's exactly why I have trouble caring about any of the political stuff. I just find myself thinking over and over "Nobody would care!"

5 hours ago, Llywela said:

Ha. Is it bad that I kind of want this to happen, now you've suggested it? I mean, Darius is already upset about being vice president, can you even imagine! "All I ever wanted to do was run my business and build stuff! I am terrible at politics, why do people keep promoting me?!?!?!"

Ha! I always think that about Melania Trump. "All I wanted to do was marry a rich guy! Why do I have to be the First Lady???"

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1 hour ago, Rachel RSL said:

That's exactly why I have trouble caring about any of the political stuff. I just find myself thinking over and over "Nobody would care!"

See, to me, that's the most believable part of the show - I mean, have you met mankind? We would totally tear ourselves to shreds over minutiae before the natural disaster had a chance to destroy us, that is absolutely how human beings operate. If there really was an asteroid on a collision course for the planet, I absolutely believe that some (many?) of our esteemed world leaders would be too busy jockeying for position to actually do anything about it (some of them even with the very best of intentions, too, because in order to save the world you have to first achieve some kind of cooperative effort, which could very easily become a very distracting rabbit hole to fall down) - and it is far too easy to believe that some people would derail the efforts of others to solve the problem, if they thought there was the slightest chance that they personally could profit from it (if only very briefly).

Also, another very human characteristic is our tendency to focus on small, immediate problems rather than bigger, more abstract ones. Like, that impending natural disaster is just too big for me to cope with, it's an abstract concept, my brain shies away from it, it's months away - but this political issue in my backyard, that's right here and now, it's a thing I understand and know how to respond to, so I'll just deal with what's in front of me and let someone else worry about that bigger problem down the line...

That's how people operate. We see it on the news every day. So the political stuff in the show feels very real to me, and I do believe that people would care - heck, if there was a civil war going on because a bunch of politicians were jockeying for position instead of getting on with the business of saving the world, I would care about that a lot, as a member of the general public without much of a voice in the situation! And if I was in the position of the characters, the heroes of the show, trying hard to save the world but being forced instead to focus on smaller yet more immediately pressing problems, I would also care about that - in fact, I would be every bit as frustrated about it as the characters were in the last episode.

That's my take on it, anyway. I think maybe some viewers are disappointed that the show isn't All Asteroid All The Time, but I also think it wouldn't be possible to sustain an ongoing show on that premise, dealing with the science of the asteroid-busting-mission in isolation. There just wouldn't be much story in that approach. I like that the show instead places the asteroid issue in its wider context of the social and political upheaval it has generated, because that's where the truly human story lies (and the eventual victory becomes all the sweeter for having been so hard-won, hopefully).

Edited by Llywela
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2 hours ago, Llywela said:

I mean, have you met mankind?

Yes, I have. Which is why I know that 99.99999999% of the population wouldn't give a damn about 2 politicians jockeying for position while an asteroid is zooming towards the Earth.

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11 hours ago, Llywela said:

Ha. Is it bad that I kind of want this to happen, now you've suggested it? I mean, Darius is already upset about being vice president, can you even imagine! "All I ever wanted to do was run my business and build stuff! I am terrible at politics, why do people keep promoting me?!?!?!"

Agreed, even the President herself is kinda pushing it, even putting herself in danger which would immediately put Darius in that position.

5 hours ago, Llywela said:

See, to me, that's the most believable part of the show - I mean, have you met mankind? We would totally tear ourselves to shreds over minutiae before the natural disaster had a chance to destroy us, that is absolutely how human beings operate. If there really was an asteroid on a collision course for the planet, I absolutely believe that some (many?) of our esteemed world leaders would be too busy jockeying for position to actually do anything about it (some of them even with the very best of intentions, too, because in order to save the world you have to first achieve some kind of cooperative effort, which could very easily become a very distracting rabbit hole to fall down) - and it is far too easy to believe that some people would derail the efforts of others to solve the problem, if they thought there was the slightest chance that they personally could profit from it (if only very briefly).

Also, another very human characteristic is our tendency to focus on small, immediate problems rather than bigger, more abstract ones. Like, that impending natural disaster is just too big for me to cope with, it's an abstract concept, my brain shies away from it, it's months away - but this political issue in my backyard, that's right here and now, it's a thing I understand and know how to respond to, so I'll just deal with what's in front of me and let someone else worry about that bigger problem down the line...

That's how people operate. We see it on the news every day. So the political stuff in the show feels very real to me, and I do believe that people would care - heck, if there was a civil war going on because a bunch of politicians were jockeying for position instead of getting on with the business of saving the world, I would care about that a lot, as a member of the general public without much of a voice in the situation! And if I was in the position of the characters, the heroes of the show, trying hard to save the world but being forced instead to focus on smaller yet more immediately pressing problems, I would also care about that - in fact, I would be every bit as frustrated about it as the characters were in the last episode.

That's my take on it, anyway. I think maybe some viewers are disappointed that the show isn't All Asteroid All The Time, but I also think it wouldn't be possible to sustain an ongoing show on that premise, dealing with the science of the asteroid-busting-mission in isolation. There just wouldn't be much story in that approach. I like that the show instead places the asteroid issue in its wider context of the social and political upheaval it has generated, because that's where the truly human story lies (and the eventual victory becomes all the sweeter for having been so hard-won, hopefully).

Most people would probably not care about the government, it would probably be chaotic with all that's going on, on top of the threat of a civil war going on.

As for the premise, many pointed out last season how limited the premise was, it's just that the show is turning to Designated Survivor 2.0 tbh.

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Exactly. I understand the need to have a couple sub-plots but now it's almost like the asteroid is an afterthought. 

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6 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

Yes, I have. Which is why I know that 99.99999999% of the population wouldn't give a damn about 2 politicians jockeying for position while an asteroid is zooming towards the Earth.

In the scenario established by the show, what 99.999999999% of the population are going to feel is completely powerless. There's an asteroid coming and there is nothing they can do about it, they are completely dependent on the tiny minority of people who are in a position of power, who do have the capacity to do something about it - so if that tiny minority of people with the power to save the world start fighting among themselves instead of getting on with the actual business of saving the world, then yes, I do believe that people would care about that. I certainly would. The general population won't care about the legalities or technicalities, no, but they will care that someone, anyone, should take control and actually save the world. The show has established that there is general chaos and panic in the streets since the news broke. People who are panicking and confused have a tendency to latch onto any loud, clear voice that's telling them what they want to hear - it's why Darius had a burst of popularity after talking down a near riot in the street, and it's also why Bennett was able to stir up mob action against McKenzie. The mob didn't care who was rightfully president. The mob just wanted someone to lead, someone to save them. They heard a loud, clear voice proclaiming "I can save you and I will save you, but there is an obstacle in my way, and you can help me by removing it" - and they responded to that. He didn't need to convince everyone in the world - or even everyone in the country. He just needed to sway enough people in the general vicinity of the White House, and I have no trouble believing that there would be plenty of panicky people in the area, people with pent-up fear and confusion in need of an outlet, who would latch onto his words and take to the streets.

I'm not saying the writing has been brilliant, it hasn't, but the concept and the logic and the human reactions all track pretty well, for me. So we'll have to agree to disagree.

3 hours ago, Free said:

As for the premise, many pointed out last season how limited the premise was, it's just that the show is turning to Designated Survivor 2.0 tbh.

The premise is limited, yes, but placing the asteroid in a wider human context instead of focusing on it in isolation expands its lifespan considerably.

Edited by Llywela
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No need to explain the plot to me. I watch the same show as you. I just happen to disagree with you.  As they say: YMMV.

Edited by Rachel RSL
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1 hour ago, Llywela said:

The premise is limited, yes, but placing the asteroid in a wider human context instead of focusing on it in isolation expands its lifespan considerably.

The storylines barely revolve around the impending asteroid itself, it's more about other characters' own motivations like Monroe trying to invoke a civil war was more of a power play for the presidency and the RESYST hack group trying to blackmail the government for their own self gain.

Even the storyline with Grace was more about a botched cover up over Claire's death.

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"This is a story of how attraction between two bodies can lead to disaster. We're not talking about gravity."

-- Grace & Harris, Grace & Tanz, Grace & Alonzo, Harris & Fiona, Liam & Jillian, Liam & Alycia, Alycia & Tanz?

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Can we add Harris & Darius to that list? It may not be happening on the show but it is most definitely happening in my mind. Proving, once again, Santiago Cabrera has chemistry with everyone.

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1 hour ago, Rachel RSL said:

Can we add Harris & Darius to that list? It may not be happening on the show but it is most definitely happening in my mind. Proving, once again, Santiago Cabrera has chemistry with everyone.

Santiago and Ian need to do a buddy cop movie.  They are great together.

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A random thought: at the very end of the season one finale, it seemed like both Liam and Darius had a similar brainwave about how to resolve the asteroid problem using magnets, yes?

Has season two mentioned this, like, at all? Because I don't remember any talk about magnets, and they certainly aren't moving forward with any magnetic solutions.

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On 7/17/2018 at 12:22 AM, Dowel Jones said:

I'm willing to start a crowdfunding program to bring Elizabeth Jennings back from Moscow.  There needs to be some wholesale killin' done around here.

I miss the Jenningses (except Paige)...

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So the rail gun works.  And could work again to stop the asteroid.  I'm feeling less confident of victory for Team Asteroid.

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11 minutes ago, Brooks said:

So the rail gun works.  And could work again to stop the asteroid.  I'm feeling less confident of victory for Team Asteroid.

Perhaps Jillian's cult is a doomsday cult, and they will convince her to derail the rail gun.

Then next season POTW (President Of The World) Darius Tanz and his frenemy Harris will use the Mars ship to rendezvous with the meteor and erect a phallic shaped solar sail on it to push it off its Earth focused course (because nobody else can do it).

The big questions: Which one will get his space suit sabotaged, and will the other save him or not? Tune in to Season 4 to find out.

Why can't I get paid to come up with this stuff?

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I don't want Darius stuffed into a helmeted space suit.  I'll lose the eye candy!  Harris' darting eyes might still be visible.

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8 minutes ago, Brooks said:

I don't want Darius stuffed into a helmeted space suit.  I'll lose the eye candy!  Harris' darting eyes might still be visible.

There would be a required bare chested shot of Harris when he suits up.

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1 hour ago, Brooks said:

So the rail gun works.  And could work again to stop the asteroid.  I'm feeling less confident of victory for Team Asteroid.

Nah.  Some previously unknown scientist will announce that he actually developed the concept of the rail gun, and bring a lawsuit to prevent its further use until he is properly compensated.

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On 8/12/2018 at 2:01 AM, Llywela said:

A random thought: at the very end of the season one finale, it seemed like both Liam and Darius had a similar brainwave about how to resolve the asteroid problem using magnets, yes?

Has season two mentioned this, like, at all? Because I don't remember any talk about magnets, and they certainly aren't moving forward with any magnetic solutions.

Yes, this was discussed earlier in this season. The idea was to alternate between using the EM drive for propulsion and using it as a magnet to pull on the asteroid. Liam thought it could work, but Darius thought switching rapidly between the two functions wouldn't be reliable enough and would ultimately give out. IIRC, this was an early factor in their increasing conflict over the course of season 2.

Ultimately though, Liam must have agreed with Darius. So he proposed the solar sail idea to attach to the EM drive unit. The sail provides the propulsion, so the EM drive can be completely re-purposed to pull on the Samson's metallic core.

As an aside, in the real world, between seasons, the EM drive that a few experimenters were claiming worked was shown by a second lab to not work--the apparent "thrust" was an interaction with the Earth's magnetic field. I doubt the original experimenters have conceded the point as of yet.

Solar sails are on firm ground, however. So, phew.

13 hours ago, Brooks said:

So the rail gun works.  And could work again to stop the asteroid.  I'm feeling less confident of victory for Team Asteroid.

Perhaps they will run out of ammo and be forced to fire a few cast members at the asteroid as a noble sacrifice. 

"Uh, Liam, I need you to go down and check the uh, rail thingies, yeah that's it. Don't forget your Neodynium alloy suit." -- Darius

Edited by Latverian Diplomat · Reason: fix typo
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2 hours ago, Latverian Diplomat said:

Yes, this was discussed earlier in this season. The idea was to alternate between using the EM drive for propulsion and using it as a magnet to pull on the asteroid. Liam thought it could work, but Darius thought switching rapidly between the two functions wouldn't be reliable enough and would ultimately give out. IIRC, this was an early factor in their increasing conflict over the course of season 2.

Ultimately though, Liam must have agreed with Darius. So he proposed the solar sail idea to attach to the EM drive unit. The sail provides the propulsion, so the EM drive can be completely re-purposed to pull on the Samson's metallic core.

Thank you! There's been so much talk about solar sails and rail guns, I didn't remember the magnet discussion at all!

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I know why we are not hearing anything from other governments - Russia, China, Great Briton, etc. They've washed their hands of this mess and moved their top people into their own underground ark like bunkers!

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7 hours ago, nx74defiant said:

I know why we are not hearing anything from other governments - Russia, China, Great Briton, etc. They've washed their hands of this mess and moved their top people into their own underground ark like bunkers!

While listening yesterday to the August 24 episode of NPR's On the Media, "Fallout," I heard one interviewee mention that a remake today of the 1980s television special, The Day After, should show global effects and reactions to nuclear bombings. I guess for this show to include international viewpoints, they'd have to ditch all the scenes of the main characters fooling around.

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Unless I've inadvertently rewritten the plot in a way that makes sense to me, Monroe Bennet, agent of Q17, was all about aiming the asteroid at Russia and China, to improve the planet with a little discreet pruning. Re/Syst took over to force concentration on a plan to save everybody. Tanz of course thought the very most important thing in the world was to do away with Re/Syst, the one body which was committed whole-heartedly to Salvation operations. Presumably he is shocked to discover that he is the Manchurian Candidate, fortuitously placed to resume Q17's plans for solving the overpopulation problem. If the plot makes any sense whatsoever, dear old Uncle Nick, in his years of anger and rivalry, has placed agents, sleepers, hacks, back doors, gotten stuff to black mail Tanz employee, as well as the work Monroe Bennett carried out using his government resources. And it doesn't much matter what Darius wants to do, he'll never clean out the company in time. Like Ozymandias in Watchmen, Nick Tanz already has taken over Tanz. Thanks to Darius' relentless commitment to being in charge, Re/Syst is no longer able to interfere. I conclude Team Asteroid aka Q17 is sitting pretty. Russia and China will take the rest of the world with their last gasp, an honor guard on the trip to Hell. 

On the other hand, if they've just rewritten the plot, the scheme to wipe out Russia and China was just Monroe Bennett, or maybe didnt'even happen. And Elon Musk did save humanity from the ultimate evil, terrorists. 

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Just two episodes left.  After last evening I'm concerned our beloved asteroid really will be blown apart.  That's based on the evangelical look on Darius' face during the last scene as he stood in front of the Ark.

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22 hours ago, Brooks said:

Just two episodes left.  After last evening I'm concerned our beloved asteroid really will be blown apart [by the Ark]

And it will miraculously keep hurtling through space with just enough functioning life support systems for Drama. No doubt Grace will stowaway with her father, Zoe, and any hunky age-appropriate men who need saving from murderous cults or political factions.

Edited by shapeshifter
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