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The Conners: Speculation and Spoilers

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I’m very skeptical that The Connors will last beyond 1 season. Even at her worst, Roseanne Connor was the heart of the show for 9 seasons and eliminating her creates a major storyline gap that, like it or not, does point back to her as the central family figure that pulls everyone together. 

Had the producers moved forward back in Season 2 with the serious consideration of removing her (when they had that episode with  Jackie and Dan running the house), the void would’ve been less apparent and the show probably would’ve remained a success. But now?...not so sure.

It’s like trying to reform the Beatles but without John and George. Let it rest.

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You can't separate the art from the artist, though. Bill Cosby was a creep when he had Keisha Knight Pulliam on his knee in the eighties and Barr was an racist, bigoted asshole when she was supposedly "sticking to her guns" - and why do people reflexively believe her version of events? - and being a "blue collar feminist". People don't suddenly change.

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27 minutes ago, JacquelineAppleton said:

and Barr was an racist, bigoted asshole when she was supposedly "sticking to her guns"

Not according to people who knew her then, and are equal parts shocked and disappointed by the last few years of her (and unequivocal in their denunciation of modern-day Roseanne - no wishy-washy shit about what she's said in recent years, a full-throated condemnation of it, but alongside a bewilderment that such words erupted from the same woman they used to know) and not evidenced by her public statements then as opposed to the last several years.  I generally think one becomes emboldened to let her or his racist flag fly rather than becoming a raging racist, but this person was conscious of racism and racial stereotypes and putting a stop to them on her show in the past.  There was an entire episode about progressive folks having to confront and acknowledge their subconscious racial bias.  It's hard to get a grasp on the nature of the change in her over the years. 

But the viewpoint of the show for those original nine years was a breath of fresh air, and even Roseanne Barr can't eradicate that.  Overshadow it, unfortunately, yes.  And damn her for that, among the other things.  But it existed, wonderfully.  And it existed in part because of her.

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I believe you can separate the art from the artist, mostly but it takes time - sometimes a lifetime. There is plenty of art that was created by horrible people but outlives its creators and eventually stands on its own merits.. 

And film/tv is a collaborative art. Roseanne Barr didn't create Roseanne Conner all by herself. Writers, directors, other actors all influenced  the show.  She ruined it all on her own though.  

It remains to be seen how the writers handle things.  We'll find out in a month.  

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On 9/18/2018 at 9:48 PM, Not4Me said:

I’m very skeptical that The Connors will last beyond 1 season. Even at her worst, Roseanne Connor was the heart of the show for 9 seasons and eliminating her creates a major storyline gap that, like it or not, does point back to her as the central family figure that pulls everyone together. 

Had the producers moved forward back in Season 2 with the serious consideration of removing her (when they had that episode with  Jackie and Dan running the house), the void would’ve been less apparent and the show probably would’ve remained a success. But now?...not so sure.

It’s like trying to reform the Beatles but without John and George. Let it rest.

The actors were already contractually obligated to Season 11 and ABC would've been forced to buy out all their contracts, so this spinoff is just a way to make some of their money back as well as showing Roseanne Barr that life does go on without her.

I hope the sitcom succeeds just to knock Roseanne Barr's ego down a few notches. If Metcalf really puts her all into portraying Jackie again, she could easily slide into the matriarch role and do some fantastic work this season. If she phones it in and falls back on crazy Jackie, the show is toast.

Jackie is going to feel obligated to "take care" of Roseanne's family as well as trying to process the devastation of losing the person whom her whole life has revolved around. It's great material for an actor to work with, if the writing team can step up to the plate.

I am also curious to see if  the Bev/Jackie dynamic changes without Roseanne around.

Edited by AgentRXS
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9 minutes ago, AgentRXS said:

I hope the sitcom succeeds just to knock Roseanne Barr's ego down a few notches.

And to shut up her minions.

This is a series that has brilliantly handled dramatic events in realistic, appropriate, sensitive ways without losing the comedy (e.g. Fisher abusing Jackie, Al dying, and several lesser events).  This will be its biggest challenge yet, certainly, but I am hopeful good writers and a core cast completely in tune with each other and the characters they play can pull it off, even if it's just for one wrap-up season.  But I am nervous, too.  Season five, without Becky, was not as good as season four.  Later seasons, with Becky gone or replaced by an inferior version and Darlene having a reduced role, are not as good as earlier seasons.  This was a sitcom, yes, but one rooted more in inter-personal relationships than true situational comedy, so you remove/reduce one core character and there's an inevitable effect.  Removing the matriarch?  That inevitable effect is magnified.  But those "not as good as" seasons were still good (and, in the case of season five and six, still great). 

So it's not a choice between wonderful and disastrous; it can be a matter of degrees of good.  So I hope it's both good and well received, again, even if it's just a limited run.  Selfishly, for my enjoyment and closure on characters I've loved half my life already.  More broadly, for the cast, writers, etc. who'd like to rise above the low note Roseanne Barr could have sent them out on.  And for the larger point about holding people accountable for their actions, which will get muddled if this flops.

I agree the characters' history means Jackie's inclinations towards and acceptance in a Roseanne-less role within the family will be particularly interesting.  There's the obvious devastating loss everyone will feel - Dan of the woman he's been with since he was 16 years old, the kids of their mom, Jackie of the sister with whom she shared a bone deep but somewhat unhealthy bond, Bev of the woman she tragically defied statistics to outlive, etc. - but how they all pull together in the usual ways and transform in the wake of this unprecedented tragedy is just as compelling.  And I think where the best opportunity lies for continuing the series' tradition of weaving tragedy and comedy together.

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I’m aware Roseanne didn’t originally create the show concept but that it was inspired by her life, so yes the art is indeed collaborative. 

My point though is before her racist tweet finally got her fired, historically she created a lot of unnecessary animosity with the writers and producers of the show (and vice versa). So clearly they’re working out their personal issues with her in the character development. 

I think the way they’ll explain her death (if we can allegedly believe Barr because she’s just nuts!) seems like an out-of-character slap in the face to the original Roseanne Connor canon. I’d let her go with more dignity, even if the portrayer lacked it.

Edited by Not4Me
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Why couldn't they just go with her dying during her knee surgery she was getting in finale? All surgery has risks. I don't think they really showed enough of her drug use to go with she Od'ed. 

I want to see this, but not if it's a depressing mess and mourning of a character whose actor doesn't deserve it. 

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I've noticed it's only Roseanne Barr saying her character will die of an overdose. Are there any other sources confirming that? Why would they tell her at all now that she's not part of the show? It sounds like Roseanne Barr is trying to keep in the spotlight by continuing to talk about the show. She might be correct but I'm curious why they'd let her break the news.

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12 hours ago, MSterling said:

I've noticed it's only Roseanne Barr saying her character will die of an overdose. Are there any other sources confirming that? Why would they tell her at all now that she's not part of the show? It sounds like Roseanne Barr is trying to keep in the spotlight by continuing to talk about the show. She might be correct but I'm curious why they'd let her break the news.

I've heard that too but not from her. I heard it on the old Roseanne forum on here. I don't know if it's true but it kinda stands to reason.

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7 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I've heard that too but not from her. I heard it on the old Roseanne forum on here. I don't know if it's true but it kinda stands to reason.

John Goodman revealed that Roseanne Connor will die and Dan will be a widower, but I don't think he explicitly stated how she died.  As for Roseanne Barr breaking the news, I don't see how anyone could stop her from talking now.  Apparently the big reveal wasn't part of her settlement package contract or else there would be a news story about how ABC is suing Barr for ruining their big surprise on the spin off.  Everything she says about the show from now on will be a story.  It'll never end until "The Conners" ends, which may very well be a one-season wonder.

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On 9/17/2018 at 3:19 PM, CelticBlackCat said:

It's official.  Roseanne reveals Roseanne Conner's demise in "The Conners"

SPOILERS:

https://theblast.com/roseanne

 

On 9/18/2018 at 12:12 AM, AgentRXS said:

Gawd, she is such an asshole for spoiling it.

I would take anything Roseanne Barr says with a grain of salt. She is an angry, bitter woman who refuses to take full responsibility that her words and actions caused the demise of her show. 

On 9/18/2018 at 9:46 PM, Not4Me said:

I think that’s unfortunate how the writers chose to end Roseanne Connor because now it leaves a stain on what is now a deeply flawed character. In spite of how horrible Roseanne Barr turned out in recent years I think Roseanne Connor deserves a more respectable, but muted, ending rather than ending up as a statistic, if you can separate the art from the artist.

 

But sometimes, even the best of people are statistics; fate is arbitrary.

WTC Survivor Dies on AA Flight 587

Edited by SmithW6079
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Have to wait and see how she dies - it could even be twisty, in that she is driving while doped up on opioids and has a fatal car accident. 

As for will the Connors succeed - it could happen, mostly down to the writing in my opinion. There's was Cheers which was fun, and that spunoff Frazier, which was funny and I thought the writing was 5x better than Cheers at least. So better spinoffs are possible, albeit challenging to pull off.

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On 9/18/2018 at 7:48 PM, Not4Me said:

It’s like trying to reform the Beatles but without John and George. Let it rest.   Let it Be.

Sorry, Not4me, I couldn't resist.

Edited by TheLastKidPicked
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I’m excited for this reboot-  I generally loved last season- it wasn’t perfect but to me it’s like season 1 of a show-  sometimes it takes awhile for them to find their feet.  Of course now it’s a whole other thing so we shall see.   The teaser trailer looked good.   

 

My guess (and hope) for the unexpected pregnancy is Darlene and David.   ?

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1 hour ago, BeachDays said:

I’m excited for this reboot-  I generally loved last season- it wasn’t perfect but to me it’s like season 1 of a show-  sometimes it takes awhile for them to find their feet.  Of course now it’s a whole other thing so we shall see.   The teaser trailer looked good.   

 

My guess (and hope) for the unexpected pregnancy is Darlene and David.   ?

And with Johnny Galecki freed up for next season, he can be the Dad the older 2 never had. And resentment can ensue!

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4 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

And with Johnny Galecki freed up for next season, he can be the Dad the older 2 never had. And resentment can ensue!

It would definitely throw things for a loop!

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The character Roseanne annoyed me to no end, so I will not miss her at all.  I always watched for the rest of the characters.  I'm anxious to see them without Roseanne Barr chewing the scenery.

I was also not a fan of Harris, but maybe this show change will also change her character.  As someone said upthread, to make her more of the actor's real age instead of trying to play (and not very well) much younger.  And if she does still play younger, maybe she could play it more naturally instead of feeling forced.

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34 minutes ago, roughing it said:

The character Roseanne annoyed me to no end, so I will not miss her at all.  I always watched for the rest of the characters.  I'm anxious to see them without Roseanne Barr chewing the scenery.

I was also not a fan of Harris, but maybe this show change will also change her character.  As someone said upthread, to make her more of the actor's real age instead of trying to play (and not very well) much younger.  And if she does still play younger, maybe she could play it more naturally instead of feeling forced.

My favorite episodes were always the ones where Roseanne was not in every scene. She was so overbearing it got hard to watch the show sometimes.

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I love the actress that plays Harris and I've watched her on Showtime for years so I hope she got whatever help and rest she needed between shows to come back refreshed and ready to own being a Conner as well as she handles being a Gallegher. 

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I hate to be the downer here, but I'm getting concerned that this is turning into Darlene instead of The Conners.  Both new recurring cast members are involved in Darlene's life. I'd like to see new love interests  for Becky and Jackie as well. I guess there's no avoiding the major focus on Darlene since Sara is a producer, but I'm hoping that the screen time is balanced out between all the cast members.

Edited by AgentRXS
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It will be interesting to see if Roseanne Barr's previous revelation that Roseanne Conner dies from an opioid overdose is true.  The Show could have her die on the operating table or from complications from the knee surgery she finally got, leaving open a medical malpractice lawsuit that would IRL go on for years, but in TV Land, would give the Conners a big monetary windfall.

I too wonder if the show is going to be all about Darlene with a new love interest, ex-husband, her kids and if Darlene will be living in the house with her recently widowed father, Dan.

Unexpected pregnancy:  Whoo boy, are we going with this trope here?  It could be Darlene (is it new BF or Johnny Galecki's character from a one-night stand for the drama), Becky (from some encounter somewhere which is a surprise because she couldn't do the surrogacy thing), or Harris?  I think Jackie is too old, but it could be a late-in-life pregnancy if she hasn't gone through menopause yet.

I will tune in to see The New Show Without Roseanne just out of curiosity for beginners.

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2 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Becky (from some encounter somewhere which is a surprise because she couldn't do the surrogacy thing),

I'm annoyed they're doing the unexpected pregnancy storyline yet again, but of the possibilities, I'm leaning towards Becky.  It could be Harris, continuing the family tradition of having kids too young, but she's really young, and we haven't had enough time getting to know her yet to get properly invested in a teen pregnancy storyline.  They've positioned Darlene as the new Roseanne and Becky as the new Jackie, so a middle-aged pregnancy from a one-night stand would follow in her aunt's footsteps.  It would make sense that she wasn't on birth control, because she wasn't in an ongoing relationship and knew her odds of pregnancy were low, so she just used condoms and hit the statistical shithole -- it happened to fall into the failure percentage, at the exact moment of peak fertility, and against the odds the doctor quoted, she did indeed get pregnant.

I also lean towards Becky because they keep using unexpected, rather than unplanned, which makes me think of someone who just didn't think pregnancy was a risk in the first place.  So that's her or Jackie, but Jackie has to be well through menopause, so that's not unexpected, that's inexplicable.  (Plus, even if possible, knocking Jackie up would call a whole lot of extra attention to the fact they're not addressing the existence of Andy, and I don't think they want to do that.)

It would be nice to see whoever it is have an abortion for a change of TV pace, but even this franchise doesn't have the guts to go there, so I guess we're going to go down the same old road yet again.

Edited by Bastet
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It would be nice to see whoever it is have an abortion for a change of TV pace, but even this franchise doesn't have the guts to go there, so I guess we're going to go down the same old road yet again.

Maude did it in 1972. I wonder if this show has as much guts. It can't be Jackie because Laurie is 63 years old. I actually hope it's just a rumor, I'm not a fan of baby story lines.

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I wonder if the unexpected pregnancy is David’s girlfriend. If Darlene is getting a possible love interest that isn’t David, it could be because his girlfriend is pregnant and the family (mostly Darlene and her kids) have to deal with a blended family. 

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4 hours ago, Stacey1014 said:

I wonder if the unexpected pregnancy is David’s girlfriend. If Darlene is getting a possible love interest that isn’t David, it could be because his girlfriend is pregnant and the family (mostly Darlene and her kids) have to deal with a blended family. 

I hadn't thought of this.  Blue, who is David's girlfriend who we will soon met in the persona of Juliette Lewis.  The actress is 45 now though.  Johnny Galecki (David) is 43.  Lecy Goranson (Becky) is 44.  Since Jackie is out, does that leave Harris?  Emma Kenney is 19 playing a 15 year old.  Questions, questions...

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I hope it isn’t Becky, if only because it would be nice if she finally got her life together, rather than continuing to fall into the same path as Jackie and Roseanne. They were trying to allude to a better future for her last season with the hotel management degree Darlene was trying to motivate her towards.

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I’m stil leaning towards Darlene being pregnant with David’s child but it could be anything.   I know showing a divorced couple, and a blended family, is more “realistic” but.... Johnny and Sara’s chemistry has always been amazing and I doubt they could have other partners without most of the audience rooting for them to get back together.   

 

Having said that, it could really be anyone.   “Unexpected” means just that, haha.   If Gina was pregnant it would be cute but she is kinda the one where it wouldn’t seem quite as unexpected.   I’m really excited to see more of her and I hope we get more D.J. this season.  

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an abortion storyline - in today's poisoned, polarised atmosphere?

"Courageous" as Sir Humphrey Appleby would tell Jim Hacker in Yes, Minister...

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9 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

I hadn't thought of this.  Blue, who is David's girlfriend who we will soon met in the persona of Juliette Lewis.  The actress is 45 now though.  Johnny Galecki (David) is 43.  Lecy Goranson (Becky) is 44.  Since Jackie is out, does that leave Harris?  Emma Kenney is 19 playing a 15 year old.  Questions, questions...

What about BOTH Darlene and Blue impregnated by David or ? the new boyfriend?????

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14 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Juliette Lewis.  The actress is 45 now though

Holy crap, when did that happen???  

On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 11:37 AM, peacheslatour said:

Wouldn't it be funny if the Conner's finally all became successful and it turns out that Roseanne was holding them back all along?

I freaking LOVE this idea.

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On 10/9/2018 at 1:37 PM, peacheslatour said:

Wouldn't it be funny if the Conner's finally all became successful and it turns out that Roseanne was holding them back all along?

If they handled this well it would actually be very believable.  I've seen more than one family situation that actually improved when one of the parents died.  Sometimes that's financially but mostly it's because decisions can be made without constantly having to cater to a difficult person.  Difficult person is an understatement where Roseanne Conner was concerned and I am not even touching on the Roseanne Barr drah-ma here.  I can definitely see things getting better for people without Roseanne.

Edited by CherryAmes
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Just saw the new teaser and that reminded me of something I thought earlier-  do you guys think they will eventually put Dan and Jackie together ?

Edited by BeachDays

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16 hours ago, BeachDays said:

 

Having said that, it could really be anyone.   “Unexpected” means just that, haha.   If Gina was pregnant it would be cute but she is kinda the one where it wouldn’t seem quite as unexpected.   I’m really excited to see more of her and I hope we get more D.J. this season.  

It would be if she came home for Roseanne’s funeral and then went back overseas and then had to come home because she got pregnant while she was on leave. 

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20 minutes ago, BeachDays said:

Just saw the new teaser and that reminded me of something I thought earlier-  do you guys think they will eventually put Dan and Jackie together ?

God I hope not!

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Please, no abortions or incestuous hookups.  This is a sitcom, even if they have A Very Special Episode.  Not a fan of miscarriages either, so if and when an unexpected baby comes, I hope it's healthy and happy!

Edited by CrystalBlue
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On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 4:05 PM, Marley said:

I thought the reboot sucked so I prob won’t be watching this. Especially if the focus is on Darlene and her kids. Really disliked Harris.

 

On ‎7‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 10:38 PM, Christina said:

This is where my mother and I fall, and we were feeling like we were the only ones. We still may be in the minority, but it just wasn't enjoyable and Darlene and Harris were major fails for us. Becky was a miss, too, and Roseanne was an annoyance and no where as funny as she thought she was. I just don't think the snarkiness landed on the show.

The working-class Conners living in middle America and undergoing the challenges of your average Americans was what made the show for me. Those old episodes still hold up but I have no desire to see repeats of the current episodes. Maybe with the time to regroup they will read reviews and adjust for The Conners, but it probably won't help my issues since I seem to be an outlier.

 

On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 12:16 PM, AgentRXS said:

I hate to be the downer here, but I'm getting concerned that this is turning into Darlene instead of The Conners.  Both new recurring cast members are involved in Darlene's life. I'd like to see new love interests  for Becky and Jackie as well. I guess there's no avoiding the major focus on Darlene since Sara is a producer, but I'm hoping that the screen time is balanced out between all the cast members.

I'm sorry but I can't like Darlene, the older she got, the less I liked her and when they came back and she moved back home with her kids, I'm sorry but I don't think she's a good enough actress to carry the show. Just my opinion.

I'll come here to read enjoyable snark but I won't be watching.

 

@Christina , I've seem to have plenty of room at my table so you and your Mom are more than welcome to join me, you're not alone as an outlier, I'm right there with you when it comes to everything you said. I have plenty of popcorn and your beverage of choice so come on over :)

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14 minutes ago, tveyeonyou said:

I'm sorry but I don't think she's a good enough actress to carry the show. J

Absolutely agree.  I can't speak to how she was in the reboot because I didn't see it but in the original series I thought both she and original recipe Becky were not the best actresses once they hit their teen/young adult years.  As kids they were fine.  As part of the ensemble I don't think it matters so much that neither is ever going to give Dame Judi Dench a run for her money.  If Darlene is meant to be the lead though, whoo boy, unless she's improved a lot, I just don't see it.

That said I do plan to tune in to the reboot of the reboot out of curiosity and to thumb my nose at Roseanne Barr so am prepared to be pleasantly surprised!

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22 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

Absolutely agree.  I can't speak to how she was in the reboot because I didn't see it but in the original series I thought both she and original recipe Becky were not the best actresses once they hit their teen/young adult years.  As kids they were fine.  As part of the ensemble I don't think it matters so much that neither is ever going to give Dame Judi Dench a run for her money.  If Darlene is meant to be the lead though, whoo boy, unless she's improved a lot, I just don't see it.

That said I do plan to tune in to the reboot of the reboot out of curiosity and to thumb my nose at Roseanne Barr so am prepared to be pleasantly surprised!

Sometimes kid actors are really good and then they grow up, change, and should probably stop acting. Darlene and Becky are both perfect examples.

Also, love your name, when I was a kid my Aunt gave me her entire Cherry Ames collection, all hardcover original editions. They wound up destroyed in a damn Hurricane but I really loved those books! Thanks for the flashback! :)

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This is just my opinion but I thought Sara Gilbert and Lecy Goranson were fantastic in the reboot.   For those who haven’t watched, Darlene is a lot sweeter as a mom, probably more like Sara in real life.  Lecy was just a riot.... personally I was quite impressed.  

 

Also their scenes together were great.   A lot of good sisterly chemistry.  

Edited by BeachDays
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If Darlene and David or Becky have a kid... they are in their early forties and would be in their late fifties/early sixties when the kid is a teenager. Not a good age to be dealing with the stress and strain of raising a teen....

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So what would they name the baby?  I'm willing to wager it will be a boy, but they already have one Mark, two wouldn't work.  In many families when someone dies the next child will be named after the deceased.  If this were real life I think they would name the baby girl Roseanne.  Here, I don't see it which is why I think they'll play it safe and have it be a boy. 

Personally I think they should name the boy Leonard if it's David's child. 

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On 10/8/2018 at 10:46 PM, FairyDusted said:

I love the actress that plays Harris and I've watched her on Showtime for years so I hope she got whatever help and rest she needed between shows to come back refreshed and ready to own being a Conner as well as she handles being a Gallegher. 

 

On 10/8/2018 at 8:49 PM, JacquelineAppleton said:

Harris looks like an college-age adult not a young teenager. Total misfire.

The actress who plays her is only 19 which isn’t beyond unreasonable for actors and actresses to play teenagers.    All they need to really do is tone down Harris a little and make her a little less bitchy.  But to be honest she is playing almost the same character she is playing on Shameless.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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