S02.E10: Every Potato Has a Receipt 2018.06.29

[DianeDobbler]

Quote

 Most women with any success, would have had a coping strategy, a la Debbie, and most men in positions of power within the industry, even if they weren't like that themselves, WHICH SAM HAS ALREADY SHOWED US HE WAS, would still be much more, 'Yeah, that's the dirty side of the business,' not all, 'Well, I never.' In a realistic scenario, I think the odds are they would have been way more angry that Ruth offended their boss and endangered the show. 

Where are you even getting this from? Plenty of women were upset and flailing about it every time it happened, including those who regularly worked in the industry.  The men who did it were considered scum, and the women who went along were not respected (although again - a no win situation, but still).

Sam has not already showed us he was like Ted Grant. He made exploitative movies, so the hotness of the women he cast was an issue. He liked to date younger, willing women. He thought Justine, whom he did not know was his kid, was into him, so he made a move. He did not force himself on her, nor on Rhonda. He hasn't told a girl to here, have a drink or take this pill, or "how much do you want this job?" Or been shown to capitalize on his power position as a man. As a director, he sees the women in front of him as commodities, he's seeing in his mind's eye what he wants for his show. GLOW has gone out of its way to show his disinterest in them outside making the wrestling show work, until he gets to know them and then doesn't want his friend to recruit them as strippers nor want one of his actresses to strip in front of him.

ETA - GLOW made a point from the start to show us he wasn't like that, because during the audition and sorting process a couple of the girls tried to flirt. Melrose got provocative and said "And any position with my legs over my head." and he said, "Yeah yeah, but I'm digging the "please objectify me" vibe."  He didn't take her up on the flirt, and decided to peg it as her character thing while sort of saying, "Yeah, I see your game." When Yolanda was being put on tape she goes, "do you want me to do anything else?" i.e., maybe work some of those stripper moves, and he said, "No."  

Do his movies reflect his own perv fantasies or tastes? Sure. But he's not coercing the women.  There's no "Let's have dinner, but I mean in my room, and by dinner I mean sex."  He had an elaborate story he wanted to tell via wrestling. Like a live movie. Remember? "What is this about?" One of the women: "Tits!" Sam: "STORYTELLING!"

The thing I object to the most is the idea that most men in the industry would be mad at a woman who resisted for upsetting the boss. That is just wrong. I know a guy who made exploitation films via his own production company (you would recognize the name) who would NOT take it as an unwritten law that women enable their scummy bosses in the industry. His brand of exploitation was more zombies with the occasional topless, and were comic. It was common, but also perceived as wrong. There were just no systems in place to deal with it, just as at the time it was still very difficult to deal with actual, straight up stranger rape. As with many difficult no win situations, a lot of people didn't know how to deal, men included. But no, it wasn't part of the culture to expect women to fuck the boss for fear of upsetting him. Not to mention Ruth hasn't had ANY success in the industry. It's a long reach to identify something as commonplace but then also say because it was commonplace, men in the industry expected women to be whores because that's the way it was. It was perceived as a no win situation and in some respects every man / woman for himself but I can't think of ANY guy who was not a bottom feeder who would challenge a woman's choice not to fuck the guy, not in 1980, not in decades before.

Quote

Sam has been commenting on all his actresses looks and " f-ablity" since the pilot, including Ruth's. He's demeaned and used them, including attempting to sleep with his own daughter at one point. 

He's been commenting on all his actresses looks and fuckability in the context of casting a wrestling show where these are attributes he's looking for for certain parts. In his history as a film director he made exploitation movies.  He does not get the women in there under false pretenses and then jump them. He doesn't say I'm doing a Strindberg play but I want to see you read naked.  He is hardly a role model but his comments to the actresses are all about work, and how well they understand their function in the show. How has he "used" them? Also it's disingenous to say he attempted to sleep with his own daughter when he had no idea whatsoever she was his daughter.

Edited July 7, 2018 by DianeDobbler

[SnoGirl]

Just finished, I put off the show because I didnt want to burn through all the episodes fast but once I started, I couldn’t stop.

I hope Ruth and Debbie’s story finally moves on from “you slept with my husband.” I hope they keep mending to be friends, especially after their fight bc as they shouted, neither one of them are perfect. Honestly, I want them to become a two-woman team kicking ass and taking names. Sam is redundant bc Ruth can direct. They might not even need Bash’s money after Vegas (I like Bash, he can stay as announcer). I really think if Ruth and Debbie actually continued to opened up to each other and trusted each other, I would love to see them dominate together. 

I don’t want Sam and Ruth. At least not yet. I’d be down with them playing the “will they-wont they” between the two until the end. I think it will create a power struggle with the Ladies if they go there too soon.

The Ladies of Glow were awesome. I love how brash and loud they were. I really hope more of the show focuses on them next season. My favorite episodes this season were the ones with the side stories. And I really hope, as a fellow plus-sized lady, that Carmen gets a love story. And I hope that Bash and Carmen figure things out. She looked so upset, I hope they dont drop the story. I also wish Carmen had ripped off that stupid shirt after defeating her brother. That’s a big wrestling move right? It looked like she had her bridesmaid outfit on under it.

And finally Bash. Chris Lowell really brought it this season. As much as I was frustrated that the show was focusing on him, I now want to rewatch the series to see if there were other clues dropped that I missed the first time around about Bash’s backstory. I got suckered in. The bar, the phone call, the house were crushing. Even his final shot on the bus, he looked so....lost. I’m kinda bummed he continued to lie to Britannica about being in love with her. I hope he figures life out, and I kinda hope he bonds with more of the ladies.

[kieyra]

Upon rewatch ... I think I wasn’t paying much attention during the gay bar scene the first time. I’m more onboard the “Bash is still 100% closeted” train now.

Somehow I assumed at least a few of them knew or suspected he was gay—side effect of watching a whole lot of shows set in modern day. On my first viewing of S2, I somehow thought Carmen looked disappointed when Bash proposed to Britannica because she knew he was gay. But others think she has a crush on him?

(My attention span ain’t great this year. But at least it makes rewatching enjoyable.)

[KarenX]

I am pretty sure Bash’s family suspected he is gay, and paid iff Florian to leave and never come back. That’s why Other Butler told Bash Florian left suddenly, but they gave him money, and he is traveling far away now, don’t bother to contact him, etc. 

 

MAYBE Florian knew he was sick and blackmailed/convinced Bash’s family to pay him to leave and didn’t tell Bash for some kind of romantic reasons, but they knew perfectly well what happened and were letting Bash deal with it alone, until he came home in distress about it.

[Clanstarling]

6 hours ago, KarenX said:

I am pretty sure Bash’s family suspected he is gay, and paid iff Florian to leave and never come back. That’s why Other Butler told Bash Florian left suddenly, but they gave him money, and he is traveling far away now, don’t bother to contact him, etc. 

 

MAYBE Florian knew he was sick and blackmailed/convinced Bash’s family to pay him to leave and didn’t tell Bash for some kind of romantic reasons, but they knew perfectly well what happened and were letting Bash deal with it alone, until he came home in distress about it.

The butler seems a kind soul, and would have known Florian as a child, since he and Bash were friends from childhood. If he gave him any money, I'd be more likely to believe he gave it to Florian to go to SF to get treatment.

[Kostgard]

On 7/7/2018 at 6:38 PM, kieyra said:

Upon rewatch ... I think I wasn’t paying much attention during the gay bar scene the first time. I’m more onboard the “Bash is still 100% closeted” train now.

Somehow I assumed at least a few of them knew or suspected he was gay—side effect of watching a whole lot of shows set in modern day. On my first viewing of S2, I somehow thought Carmen looked disappointed when Bash proposed to Britannica because she knew he was gay. But others think she has a crush on him?

(My attention span ain’t great this year. But at least it makes rewatching enjoyable.)

I think it could go either way with Carmen. She could have a crush on him, or it could be that she knows the truth. I lean more towards “crush” only because it seems like she’s had a somewhat sheltered life due to her overprotective dad and brothers. But I also think she will somehow be the first GLOW gal to figure it out. I think she understood Shenanigans was a gay bar (but didn’t care because it was fun), and it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to guess Florian was gay since he hung out there. I can see Carmen putting two and two together because her crush on Bash has made her pay close attention to him.

As for Bash’s family, I think they know the score about both Florian and Bash. The butler obviously being kind about it all, but I think Bash’s mom probably at least suspects her son is gay and would do anything to “stop” that. Florian read as more obviously gay, so she probably knew about him. And if Florian came to her because too many checks from Bash bounced (and maybe he knew he was sick and was going to need money for medical bills), I’m sure Bash’s mom would have been more than happy to write him a large check in exchange for the promise that he’ll leave and never contact Bash again.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Kostgard

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, Kostgard said:

I think it could go either way with Carmen. She could have a crush on him, or it could be that she knows the truth. I lean more towards “crush” only because it seems like she’s had a somewhat sheltered life due to her overprotective dad and brothers. But I also think she will somehow be the first GLOW gal to figure it out. I think she understood Shenanigans was a gay bar (but didn’t care because it was fun), and it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to guess Florian was gay since he hung out there. I can see Carmen putting two and two together because her crush on Bash has made her pay close attention to him.

I thought it was obvious Carmen had a crush on Bash. She was devastated when he said he'd marry Britannica, even though she knew it was green card marriage. But I also think she probably does have some inkling Bash is gay, and it would be great if she were the first to offer him support. Those two have a really nice relationship, and I'd hate to see it end just because there's no way they'll hook up. (I think Bash looks at Carmen in a sisterly fashion, not as any possible love interest.)

[Danny Franks]

Bash's combination of grief and disgust (because he's clearly never admitted to himself that he's gay) was powerful. And the fear and horror about AIDS felt very authentic. No one knew what it was, and most people weren't sure how you could catch it.

Marrying Rhonda to keep denying who he is? Well that just isn't going to end well. But the drama of the wedding ended up matching pretty much any wrestling wedding, so I guess that part of it worked out well.

Already we're getting drama out of Sam/Ruth. No thanks on that.  And they're already falling into the TV trap of one of the characters suddenly forgetting the messy feelings for the other, and being all lovey dovey in front of them.

I did really like his sentiment about "you make room to let someone in. Then they go... and the room's still there." Justine definitely has to come back next season. This is too rich a storyline for both her and Sam, for it to end here.

I also loved his "oh boy" when he saw Arthie devouring Yolanda with her eyes. Then teasing her over crushing on Yolanda. I also thought this was an interesting take on the 'oh, I've discovered someone I know is a stripper!' trope. Neither Sam nor Yolanda were the least bit ashamed, either of being a customer at a strip club, or of being a stripper. Usually, of course, it's the woman who's shamed for being a sexual being.

Love that Sheila has a pack of devoted fans, even if it makes her uncomfortable.

I didn't even realise this was a double length episode until they got to the battle royal part. I couldn't believe I was actually interested in seeing who would win the crown. Having Zoya come in and steal the crown was a brilliant ending. I thought the earlier scene, where Debbie looked wistfully at Ruth, Carmen and Cherry in the ring was about Debbie being envious of Ruth's close relationship with the other girls. But actually she was coming up with this plan for Ruth to get her due. 

 Debbie also made an attempt to strike up conversation with Ruth, and tease her about Russell. Progress. And the horrified realisation about having to start dating again? Understandable.

Chavo Guerrero has been an adviser and trainer for the show since the start, so it's nice to see him get some screen time, and to show us how wrestlers actually call moves in the ring. And Carlos Colon again, as Carmen's brother.

And now they're going to Vegas? Skeevy strip club owner comes up good! But Sam in Las Vegas, pining over Ruth? In his own words, "oh boy".

And they end the season with a bit of Starship. Of course.

[dubbel zout]

15 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

And they end the season with a bit of Starship. Of course.

LOL. Probably the second-worst song the band ever recorded. (The worst, by a mile, being the awesomely awful "We Built This City." One of my favorite terrible songs!)

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

LOL. Probably the second-worst song the band ever recorded. (The worst, by a mile, being the awesomely awful "We Built This City." One of my favorite terrible songs!)

Thank you! I am not alone!

[Danny Franks]

Ah, I love Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now. You can't beat a bit of cheesy, 80s power balladry.

It was a perfect song to end the season on.

[tennisgurl]

Loved this season, I want the next season now! I watched it slowly so I could savor every delicious, 80s morsel, and I liked how this season wrapped up. Next season in Vegas should be fun, even if I assume they will get back on TV at some point. Loved watched Bash telling the jellyfish producer to get the fuck out of their ring. What a shit show that station was. 

Poor Bash is so heartbroken, and so deeply in denile. Marrying Rhonda to convince himself how straight he is will inevitably end badly, but at least i think Rhonda might be understanding. She is a pretty worldly women when it comes to relationships, so I think she might understand when he either comes out, or gets outed. I wonder if maybe some of the other girls will figure it out before he even starts dealing with it? I think his mom knows, and might have even paid Florian off to go away. Or at least, she suspects, and is not alright with it at all. Carmen looked heartbroken when he married Rhonda. I think she has a crush on him, but I think its for the best he didnt fake marry her. While I think Rhoda would be pretty practical about Bash being gay, Carmen would have her heart broken, at least at first. I think she would be really supportive if she got used to the idea, and moved past her crush. 

Too bad they seem to be heading towards Ruth/Sam, because I think Ruth and the video guy. But, I do like them both as characters, so maybe it will work? I am always amazed at how Sam can be so sleazy and jerky, but also so likable and sympathetic. 

I've never liked wrestling, but damn it if this show doesn't get me caught up in the storylines and drama, and make GLOW look like a ton of fun to watch. It actually kind of makes me get why people like wrestling!

[DianeDobbler]

I think the video guy was so blatantly cast as chum, and a way to put the brakes on Sam/Ruth. I totally agree Sam/Ruth is not something they should go for full on next season. It needs to be subtextual, but if GLOW is going to continue as the wrestling troupe within a TV show it is, I don't see how anything full on would work.

Totally agree Chris Lowell brought it this season. I have a great deal of trouble thinking ANY of the women, ANY of them, would think him straight after awhile. He doesn't flirt. He wears glitter eyeshadow when he works. He's emotive, expressive, he cares about his performance. He's young, good-looking, great hair, good body, a trust fund baby - where is the girlfriend showing up for rehearsals or performances. They know. 1980s was a long time ago but is still modern day. The wrestling girls know. So does Sam, "Separate rooms, just for the record!"

I don't think Carmen is in love with him per se. I read some of what Britney Young said, and it basically read to me that they have a bond, she gets him in the way Ruth gets Sam (pretend GLOW never went there with Ruth and Sam) and vice versa, so she'd expect him to turn to her, not Brittanica. It's not necessarily romantic attachment she feels for him. If it were up to me, and based on what I've seen on the show so far, I'd say Florian and Bash had a gay relationship, but it's not gay in Bash's eyes cause it's only with each other, that Florian is more comfortable identifying as gay than Bash (Bash either won't identify or is 100% compartmentalized), and Florian has obviously strayed outside the relationship (hence, AIDs, which could also explain Bash's despair). There was something about the moment when Bash applied the red glitter eye shadow that read to me that he felt in that moment, prepping to go on, he could be gay Bash because it was show biz, and glitter eye shadow was appropriate. IOW, to borrow something Marc Maron said about his own character, I think Bash is more self-aware than we think, he's just ferociously compartmentalized, even with himself. But that's just me.

I think he married Rhonda because Florian is dead, and he doesn't want to be alone, AND he's running away from all it means to be gay.

Edited July 11, 2018 by DianeDobbler

[txhorns79]

Quote

I thought it was obvious Carmen had a crush on Bash. She was devastated when he said he'd marry Britannica, even though she knew it was green card marriage. But I also think she probably does have some inkling Bash is gay, and it would be great if she were the first to offer him support. Those two have a really nice relationship, and I'd hate to see it end just because there's no way they'll hook up. (I think Bash looks at Carmen in a sisterly fashion, not as any possible love interest.)

I agree.  I think Carmen has some form of a crush, recognizes that Bash does not like her in the same way, but also kind of thinks of Bash as being "hers."  It's like "I should be the girl you fake marry, not her!" 

[DrSpaceman]

I don't really understand the ending and what the TV network was doing. 

They own the rights to the shows and the girls characters  as it pertains to TV.  They cancel they show on their own network, but why don't they want to sell those rights to some other TV network so they can make money off those rights?  They just are going to keep it and doing nothing with it?  That doesn't really make business or logistic sense.  If you own something you aren't using and somebody else would pay you for it, why not sell it? 

I would have rather seen the storyline of Britannica marrying a fan that Bash

That last episode though was great!  Battle Royal for the bouquet. 

Did Bash not tell anyone about the death of his friend? 

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 1:56 PM, leighdear said:

Obviously Florian died of AIDS-related pneumonia, thus the "decontamination" of the house, but I thought he & Bash had a physical relationship.  Which I thought then prompted Bash to practically force Britannica to marry him, in his own brand of denial.  Marry a woman = he's not gay anymore. 

I really like Yolanda added to the crew.  

I guess that could be it

I just thought he was freaked out over someone dying in the house in general and wanted it thoroughly cleansed, physically and emotionally.  Get everything out, all memories of him so he could move on

Edited July 13, 2018 by DrSpaceman

[DrSpaceman]

On ‎7‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 2:01 AM, Zaku said:

Okay, let me get this straight. The network has the rights on the characters and the format, but they decided to cancel the show and not to sell the these rights to anyone. They are just losing money on it, because Ruth didn't sleep with the network boss.

This is beyond the realm of pettiness: it's sheer stupidity. 
 

Yes that is where I am at with the ending as well.  Makes no sense. 

[DrSpaceman]

The casting couch real stories and storyline in movies are as old as Hollywood.  They probably did them way back in the silent movie days, both in real life and in the movies.  So the #metoo thing means nothing to the larger picture of that plot. 

I don't really want Sam and Ruth to end up together.  I would much rather see them develop a Liz/Jack 30 rock or Leslie/Ron Parks and rec type relationship. 

I also don't really care much about Debbie on this show.  She is one of the least interesting characters. 

[Fukui San]

One thing about the ending: Wrestling often has issues of wrestlers leaving a federation and that federation claiming that the name belongs to it as a wrestler. Wrestlers usually go and used a changed version of the name with a similar gimmick ("Masha the Russian Smasher!"), getting a different gimmick, or on occasion legally changing a name to the previous gimmick. The Ultimate Warrior legally changed his name to "The Ultimate Warrior" in order to keep his persona outside the WWF. Sometimes companies cast other wrestlers to play the abandoned gimmicks. Occasionally successfully, but usually not.

[Loandbehold]

3 hours ago, DrSpaceman said:

They own the rights to the shows and the girls characters  as it pertains to TV.  They cancel they show on their own network, but why don't they want to sell those rights to some other TV network so they can make money off those rights?  They just are going to keep it and doing nothing with it?  That doesn't really make business or logistic sense.  If you own something you aren't using and somebody else would pay you for it, why not sell it? 

This has happened with real shows that have been canceled. Who owns the rights and not being willing to sell them (or not being offered enough money to do so) is one of (but likely not the only) the reasons Dark Matter wasn't rescued from cancellation. But, in this case, I believe the head of the network was just being a bastard out of spite. First Ruth left the hotel room so he moved the show to an early morning time slot, then canceled the show. Now he's not going to allow them on any other TV station. I would assume that this show was never considered a huge moneymaker for the station, so not selling the rights to someone else won't have too much impact on the bottom line. 

[Clanstarling]

4 hours ago, DrSpaceman said:

I just thought he was freaked out over someone dying in the house in general and wanted it thoroughly cleansed, physically and emotionally.  Get everything out, all memories of him so he could move on

His reaction could be made up of many things - and this could certainly be part of the whole.

[DrSpaceman]

I don't get where the title of the episode came from or what it refers to. 

[Fukui San]

Well...  they're wrestling terms but they don't really have an applicable plot references.

"Potato" I believe means to actually hurt someone for real. That might obviously apply to Ruth's broken leg.

"Receipt" means comeuppance or payback.

So "Every Potato Has a Receipt" means every time you aren't careful and hurt someone in the ring, it'll get back at you in the future, in kind.

But this episode wasn't about Ruth hurting Liberty Belle at all, so I have no idea how it applies.

[DianeDobbler]

Bash was emphasizing using bleach and then he told the clean up foreman his crew should wear gloves. The foreman said that he knows, they've done it before.

Setting aside that if they were cleaning with bleach, of course they'd wear gloves, I say of course Bash has heard of AIDs, the clean up crew knew it was AIDs, Bash knows Florian died of AIDs, and was channeling all of his freakout over the loss of Florian into a freakout over AIDs. If he were in the dark, he wouldn't have cut off the notification phone call so abruptly, all that stuff about "technically, it was pneumonia" and the part about having trouble finding a funeral home to take him. It's 1985 - he knew. Everybody knew about pneumocystic pneumonia and karposi's sarcoma. I think if he wasn't in love with Florian he wouldn't have pretty much had a meltdown, he'd have said "Pneumonia? How did he get pneumonia?!" But he knew how Florian got pneumonia. WHY the writers played it coy like this, I do not know. Are we supposed to be as in the dark as the girls?

Speaking of which, I withdraw my statement that the girls know. I think real life 1985 show biz, streetwise, and showbiz adjacent girls would definitely know very fast that Bash was gay, but the writing on GLOW tells us not all of them do. Some of them thought Carmen was banging Bash, and Brittanica obviously took him on face value about being in love with her. The way Debbie said, "He's your butler?" at the S1 party suggested to me she got a read on the whole thing right then, though.

[Loandbehold]

15 hours ago, Fukui San said:

Well...  they're wrestling terms but they don't really have an applicable plot references.

"Potato" I believe means to actually hurt someone for real. That might obviously apply to Ruth's broken leg.

"Receipt" means comeuppance or payback.

So "Every Potato Has a Receipt" means every time you aren't careful and hurt someone in the ring, it'll get back at you in the future, in kind.

But this episode wasn't about Ruth hurting Liberty Belle at all, so I have no idea how it applies.

I didn't know that was what "potato" in the wrestling context meant. Given that, I think the title means that instead of Liberty Belle regaining the title, it went to Zoya. 

[Fukui San]

15 minutes ago, Loandbehold said:

I didn't know that was what "potato" in the wrestling context meant. Given that, I think the title means that instead of Liberty Belle regaining the title, it went to Zoya. 

That doesn't quite fit the meaning of "receipt", though. It's more like if you punch someone for real, accidentally, that person has the right to punch you back for real, on purpose. A wrestler might say "Once I potatoed that guy/gal near the start of the match, I knew there was a receipt coming."

Here's a link to a Wikipedia glossary of wrestling terms, if you're curious.

Quote

Potato

A strike to the head which makes real contact. A wrestler who endures one or more potatoes is likely to potato the perpetrator back, which is known as a "receipt".

I'm not sure there's anything to it but a fun wrestling phrase.

[JakeyJokes]

16 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

 

Speaking of which, I withdraw my statement that the girls know. I think real life 1985 show biz, streetwise, and showbiz adjacent girls would definitely know very fast that Bash was gay, but the writing on GLOW tells us not all of them do. Some of them thought Carmen was banging Bash, and Brittanica obviously took him on face value about being in love with her. The way Debbie said, "He's your butler?" at the S1 party suggested to me she got a read on the whole thing right then, though.

Thank you for reminding me of that Debby part, because I knew there was a part in S1 where Debby and Florian had a "moment". I think it's when he got her the bucket to puke in.

 

 

16 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

 If he were in the dark, he wouldn't have cut off the notification phone call so abruptly, all that stuff about "technically, it was pneumonia" and the part about having trouble finding a funeral home to take him. It's 1985 - he knew. Everybody knew about pneumocystic pneumonia and karposi's sarcoma. I think if he wasn't in love with Florian he wouldn't have pretty much had a meltdown, he'd have said "Pneumonia? How did he get pneumonia?!" But he knew how Florian got pneumonia. WHY the writers played it coy like this, I do not know. Are we supposed to be as in the dark as the girls?

Interesting! I don't know if they're playing coy, but they're trying to present it the way we would have heard about it in 1985. I watched this season twice, with my 60-year-old father and with my 24-year-old man friend. After the phone call about Florian, my dad immediately said, "Oh. AIDS." I had to explain everything to the 24-year-old, because gay millennials are, culturally, that far removed from the AIDS crisis a generation before us.

[Clanstarling]

44 minutes ago, JakeyJokes said:

Interesting! I don't know if they're playing coy, but they're trying to present it the way we would have heard about it in 1985. I watched this season twice, with my 60-year-old father and with my 24-year-old man friend. After the phone call about Florian, my dad immediately said, "Oh. AIDS." I had to explain everything to the 24-year-old, because gay millennials are, culturally, that far removed from the AIDS crisis a generation before us.

Yep, being roughly your father's age, and having lived in the SF Bay Area at that time, I also immediately knew it was AIDS. It was a horrific period.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 7/5/2018 at 2:28 PM, Stuffy said:

Glen told them they can keep performing their live shows for their fans. They just can't sell them to another network. I took it as Tom Grant being petty. He doesn't care about them performing the characters.  He just doesn't want Ruth or the show being on tv anywhere.  If they go after him for it, he can probably say they can't do the characters at all. 

 

 

I think it was along the lines of how GLOW created the characters and owns them, but sold the tv rights to those characters to Glen. No different then if you write a successful novel, a studio might buy the movie rights to that novel, but unless it is explicit in the contract, they can't stop you from writing more stories with the same characters. It just wasn't really explained well, the same way it wasn't explained how a small time California cable channel is part of a network and is also producing their own police dramas.

On 7/10/2018 at 11:08 AM, Danny Franks said:

Chavo Guerrero has been an adviser and trainer for the show since the start, so it's nice to see him get some screen time, and to show us how wrestlers actually call moves in the ring. And Carlos Colon again, as Carmen's brother.

I really liked how the brothers were willing to lose to the women as long as they looked good on camera and got a bunch of exposure. Because really i pro-wrestling winning or losing doesn't necessarily matter as much compared to getting a big boost in your fans. Also in wrestling doing the job for someone else, when in the best interest of the storyline is alsp considered very important.

On 7/10/2018 at 8:49 PM, DianeDobbler said:

Totally agree Chris Lowell brought it this season.

 

I still can't believe that Veronica Mars's annoying college boyfriend ks actually a pretty talented actor.

On 7/9/2018 at 10:35 PM, Kostgard said:

As for Bash’s family, I think they know the score about both Florian and Bash. The butler obviously being kind about it all, 

 

The family butler knows. Keep in mind that he eventually comes out himself, changes his name to one sounding like a famous actor and moves to New York to marry an NYPD detective.

Edited July 18, 2018 by Kel Varnsen

[ketose]

One note on the live show. I think there must be a real difference between performing on stage and being on TV. I was just re-reading "The War for Late Night" and there was something similar. When NBC let Conan O'Brien out of his contract in 2010, he was barred from being on television for 9 months, but he did a series of live shows to drum up interest for his TBS show. I'm assuming it would cost a network more money to secure the live performance rights to something that's also broadcast, money that they don't want to spend.

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

I still can't believe that Veronica Mars's annoying college boyfriend ks actually a pretty talented actor.

Took me forever to realize he was a Veronica Mars cast member - that and an IMDB search.

10 hours ago, ketose said:

One note on the live show. I think there must be a real difference between performing on stage and being on TV. I was just re-reading "The War for Late Night" and there was something similar. When NBC let Conan O'Brien out of his contract in 2010, he was barred from being on television for 9 months, but he did a series of live shows to drum up interest for his TBS show. I'm assuming it would cost a network more money to secure the live performance rights to something that's also broadcast, money that they don't want to spend.

I think it all boils down to - contracts can be wierd and often don't make sense to the general public. But are always written in favor of the big money.

[dubbel zout]

14 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The family butler knows. Keep in mind that he eventually comes out himself, changes his name to one sounding like a famous actor and moves to New York to marry an NYPD detective.

Punch line for this befuddled reader, please?

[Loandbehold]

14 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The family butler knows. Keep in mind that he eventually comes out himself, changes his name to one sounding like a famous actor and moves to New York to marry an NYPD detective.

 

34 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Punch line for this befuddled reader, please?

The actor also plays Captain Holt's husband on Brooklyn Nine-Nine.

[DianeDobbler]

I admit I do find Debbie pretty uninteresting, but I think Betty Gilpin's acting is often extraordinary. I don't know why those two feelings are able to co-exist! My favorite parts of Debbie are comic. The drama stuff I have trouble caring about - every molehill is a mountain with her, or she creates additional drama to fuel some sort of free-floating anger she's got going. There's her anger at Ruth for sleeping with Mark, but then this Vesuvian anger over everything else (like Ruth doing Mark only fueled what was already there and hidden) that I don't much care about. Not specific enough, or maybe the anger just dominated too much.

[dubbel zout]

3 minutes ago, Loandbehold said:

39 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Punch line for this befuddled reader, please?

The actor also plays Captain Holt's husband on Brooklyn Nine-Nine.

Shame on me, I watch Brooklyn Nine-Nine! I was thinking of police procedurals, not comedies.

[DianeDobbler]

I don't think I want Debbie and Ruth to make progress on their friendship. I'm not sure Ruth wants the friendship back so much as she wants to expiate her guilt and if she gets Debbie's forgiveness and restores the friendship, that will help. Ruth won't have to carry that, because Debbie will be past it. But I don't especially like them as friends. I'd like to see Ruth become friends with other women in the cast, the way Debbie is becoming friends with Tammae.

[ketose]

The other problem is that Debbie and Ruth became friends by having similar experiences. Then Debbie got acting parts and Ruth didn't and it made things awkward. My guess is that Debbie might have been looking for an excuse to stop hanging out with Ruth. The affair would certainly do it, but now they're stuck together in GLOW. So instead, Debbie just takes out her frustrations on Ruth and sometimes breaks her ankle.

[Danny Franks]

On 19/07/2018 at 2:02 AM, ketose said:

The other problem is that Debbie and Ruth became friends by having similar experiences. Then Debbie got acting parts and Ruth didn't and it made things awkward. My guess is that Debbie might have been looking for an excuse to stop hanging out with Ruth. The affair would certainly do it, but now they're stuck together in GLOW. So instead, Debbie just takes out her frustrations on Ruth and sometimes breaks her ankle.

But Debbie had quit her job to become a full time mother, so I don't think she would be trying to cut ties with Ruth because of career awkwardness. I think she genuinely cared about Ruth, and was happy to continue their friendship, but that she did enjoy the power imbalance (at least sub-consciously) between them.

[ketose]

13 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

But Debbie had quit her job to become a full time mother, so I don't think she would be trying to cut ties with Ruth because of career awkwardness. I think she genuinely cared about Ruth, and was happy to continue their friendship, but that she did enjoy the power imbalance (at least sub-consciously) between them.

That almost made it worse because Debbie then tried to make her termination into a choice to be a wife and mother, something Ruth wasn't close to doing, either.

[Danny Franks]

8 hours ago, ketose said:

That almost made it worse because Debbie then tried to make her termination into a choice to be a wife and mother, something Ruth wasn't close to doing, either.

From Ruth's point of view, maybe. But I can't see that Debbie was trying to end their friendship, or that she felt Ruth was a drag on her lifestyle. As Ruth suggested, Debbie may have actually liked that her friend was struggling, so she could feel superior and impart wisdom.

[Snewtsie]

On 7/1/2018 at 11:01 PM, Zaku said:

Okay, let me get this straight. The network has the rights on the characters and the format, but they decided to cancel the show and not to sell the these rights to anyone. They are just losing money on it, because Ruth didn't sleep with the network boss.

This is beyond the realm of pettiness: it's sheer stupidity. 
 

Hollywood is the land of Ego.  Studios are known for making punitive decisions to show they control a situation.  This show was never going to be a big money maker- it's a campy vaudeville act with a niche audience.  Keep it, sell it, or discontinue it = dollars too small to quibble over from the network's POV.  It doesn't need to make sense to anyone ...but it happens all the time in Hollywood.

[Miles]

On 30.6.2018 at 3:36 PM, Landlord said:

The look on Carmen's face when Bash interrupts Rhonda and Cupcake's wedding, just broke my heart. Poor girl :( I was hoping so much for them, despite the heavy subtext that maybe Bash and Florian were actually a couple? I never would have gotten that subtext from last season, it actually dawned on me after watching season 2 and reading posts on here.)

It was basically confirmed this episode that Bash is gay. The way he jumped at the chance to get himself a beard was pretty telling.

I just hope he didn't catch the god damn Loch Ness monster.

He was probably too deep in denial to actually start anything with Florian. Which is deeply sad on one hand, but might have safed his life on the other.

 

On 5.7.2018 at 4:00 PM, STOPSHOUTING said:

Loathe the idea of Sam and Ruth getting together. I mean, Ruth is a terrible person, which I think the show has tried to backtrack on, but sleeping with your best friend's husband, twice, just because, right after she had a baby is next left awful. Debbie breaking Ruth's leg while high on coke doesn't make them "even," which I think is the show's perspective. I don't think Debbie is all that great either, nor in the right to resort to physical violence, and wasn't cheering that she did, but the whole "get over it" mentality the show seems to have for "poor Ruth's" transgression doesn't work for me. At all. 

YMMV, I thought that made them more than even.

 

On 5.7.2018 at 4:00 PM, STOPSHOUTING said:

Also I hate, hate, HATE the angry women burns all her husband's stuff or sells all her worldly goods for no money or some other completely bat-crap crazy overreaction to a divorce. In the real world, money IS important. Sure, sell the bed. Fine. But the wholesale fire sale of everything, at a time when they're struggling financially, strains not just the bonds of credulity, but also practicality. Like, most people know they need dishes and chairs and if you sell all of these, you'll have to just get new ones you can't afford. And what was supposed to be the big reveal that she kept the baby's room intact was incredibly, blindly obvious in a way that disappointed me in the show. Unless that was Debbie's way of telling us she was suicidal—and I didn't get that AT ALL—the entire thing was both dumb and then completely ignored by the show moving forward.

I don't think Debbie has any financlial problems. She was a soap star for a long time and her husband makes good money. She is in GLOW because she needs to work, not because she needs the money.

 

On 6.7.2018 at 6:12 PM, STOPSHOUTING said:

I didn't like this season as much as the first and I read a Vanity Fair article yesterday that really clarified why for me ... This season this show that is nominally about a group of women, focused mainly on ... the men. Bash and Sam got the big storylines, Debbie's storyline was almost entirely about her ex and Ruth, our main protagonist, was relegated mostly to dodging grope-y execs or doing will-she, won't-she with others. 

Ah come on, that's bullshit. Bash got barely any screentime this whole season. His storyline was mainly in three episodes. People just think it was more, since two of these three episodes were the last two. The women had a lot more story than he did.

The triangle of Sam, Ruth and Debbie has always been a major focus of the show. That's two of the three leads being women. When is it enough women before the constant complaining stops? When there are only women on a show? Or will the complaining just shift to that these women act too much like men (a complaint I've actually heard before)?

 

On 14.7.2018 at 9:07 PM, JakeyJokes said:

I had to explain everything to the 24-year-old, because gay millennials are, culturally, that far removed from the AIDS crisis a generation before us.

I'm a gay millenial and I got that one immediatly. I may be 33 but it's not like I consciously lived through the AIDS crisis. Tell your friend to watch some documenteries or just gay themed movies once in a while.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Miles

[The Crazed Spruce]

Just a reminder to keep the conversation civil. We can have a great discussion of this show without having to call out other posters, or their friends.

[The Companion]

Ruth ziplining in was incredibly satisfying. I loved this season and thought this episode was a great ending. 

Dash and his impulsive decision to acquire a beard was completely unexpected for me, and I suspect it will end in a complicated manner, but I am looking forward to seeing where it goes. I agree that he is in deep denial. It breaks my heart. 

This show works because the ensemble is so incredible. I loved the final battle royale and the way everyone got a moment to shine

[Armchair Critic]

I don't know if it's because she is older than the character she plays and is trying to look younger or if she has bad skin, but Brittanica has her foundation (makeup) caked on.

[SnarkEnthusiast]

Main takeaways from GLOW thus far after binging over four days:

I was apparently in the minority who didn't pick up on the "Bash is gay" subtext at all until the death notification. I don't think Florian is the right character to catalyze his identity crisis because even though we've been told they're childhood best friends, we hardly ever saw them interact one-on-one. The narrative abruptness of his disappearance and death combined with the intensity of Bash's feelings of grief makes me wonder if they had originally planned some sort of flashback or romantic development between Bash and Florian that had to hastily be scrapped and written around when Florian got cast as Picasso on Genius. Maybe I'm just gullible, but I had thought he would eventually end up with Carmen because I love their relationship. It's also hard to be emotionally invested in an offscreen love affair or a character we hardly ever saw, much less process after-the-fact that a background character primarily used for comic relief was supposedly the love of a main character's life. I'm not liking the direction of Rhonda as the beard and especially Carmen being jealous because it feels unnecessarily humiliating for both of them. Anyone else watch My Mad Fat Diary? I was hoping Carmen/Bash were the next Rae/Finn, but they're apparently following Rae/Archie's arc instead. And I get the gay panic behind Bash's shotgun wedding, but even if he is in denial and trying to repress his sexuality, why dig yourself deeper into the hole by claiming to be in love with Rhonda if it's a green card marriage to begin with? That should have been perfect for him because he would have the appearance of being straight to the outside world without actually having to act on it and she even told him flat out she doesn't see him romantically so you'd think that he would be relieved, not doubling down on the love lie. He could've just admitted that he didn't see her that way either without having to out himself. His spiraling and inevitably trying to force himself into a sexual relationship with Rhonda is only going to end horribly and embarrassingly for them and Carmen.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, Yolanda and Arthie fell in love through one silent dance scene with zero sexual introspection from Arthie and are a couple by the end of the next episode despite having exchanged maybe three lines all season? Far be it from me to complain about gratuitous lesbianism, but build up your romantic subplots for fuck's sake! You can't just tell us people are in love now without showing them interacting or growing attraction at all.

I don't want Sam and Ruth to bang because their vibe reads too father/daughter, although I guess last season ended with his actual daughter recoiling from his kiss in disgust, so it's both an upgrade and fitting that this season ended with his spiritual daughter doing the same thing. It's a little weird to me that shows introduce older male characters as paternal mentor figures that always conveniently involve into sexual interests for the younger female character. As someone who grew up with lots of older male family friends and role models, the idea that they're all just subtly biding their time to see if they can get into your pants is a little creepy to me. I know that Ruth's relationship with the camera guy probably won't survive the move to Vegas, but still, especially after everything that happened with Mark, it's nice to see her in a functional relationship for once and I'd imagine a romance with Sam would basically consist of nagging him and mothering him through his benders, a savior role that I don't think Ruth is looking to play and one that I'd think would hinder her directorial ambitions. You can already tell that his self-destructive tendencies are going to clash with her vision of her professional future, whether or not their relationship  becomes sexual.

Speaking of clashing, Debbie/Ruth is great and the actresses have wonderful chemistry but if their arc is going to continue, I'm going to need Debbie to drop the "you slept with my husband" whinefest that either starts or escalates every conflict the two of them seem to have. I get that it's obviously a big bone of contention, but at some point Ruth can only be so contrite and there's nothing else she could do. She stopped the affair and has done nothing but kiss Debbie's ass and be her lapdog since Debbie found out. If she wanted to hold a lifelong grudge, she should've never agreed to work with her. But like Ruth said, she loves the drama and subconsciously couldn't stand the thought of Ruth getting her own source of attention since Debbie considers herself to be the better actress and bigger star. Besides, Debbie totally ceded all moral high ground when she broke Ruth's ankle in a cocaine-fueled rage that wasn't even directed at her. I can't believe Debbie using cocaine right before a match was never brought up again and she was never punished for it because that was a huge breach of protocol. Ruth may be grating and naive, but Debbie is a narcissistic control freak who "thinks the sun rises and sets in her own asshole," as Sam would say. The writers need to stop assuming that our sympathies are with Debbie because of the affair - that well ran dry long ago. Plus, she never really seemed that upset about losing Mark and moreso incredulous and indignant that a loser like Ruth could seduce him away from her, which just makes her look like an even bigger asshole, especially because Ruth is supposedly one of her closest friends.

If I could change anything, particularly about the second season, I wish we could have spent more time with the supporting ladies as opposed to focusing on yet another Debbie breakdown every episode. I also wonder if they're going to delve deeper into Debbie's feelings about Randy, because in the episode with the impromptu yard sale, Debbie acted distressed that he was starting to look more like Mark and we only ever see her passing Randy off to other people, which seems to imply there's some kind of emotional detachment going on with her because the baby reminds her of Mark and their failed marriage.

Overall, absolutely wonderful season and even better than the first! Can't wait for next year.

Edited August 12, 2018 by SnarkEnthusiast

[Marley]

Then putting Ruth and Sam as this will they won’t  they couple is the worst. It might ruin the show for me. I have no major issues with Sam but they should not be put together.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

In S1 when we initially met Florian at Bash's party, I thought Bash and Florian were friends with benefits or possibly a couple who weren't open about being gay (which was not surprising since Bash came from a rich judgmental family). I was hoping we would see more of their relationship in S2 so I was disappointed after Florian disappeared (I only remember seeing him in one episode this season). Seeing some of Bash's reactions this season made me question my S1 assumptions though. He seemed so clueless and then uncomfortable when they went to the bar looking for Florian that I'm willing to buy that he didn't fully realize he was gay yet. Regardless of whether or not he was having sex with Florian, they've been friends since they were kids so I can see why his death was so shocking and upsetting even if they were just friends. His sudden proposal to Britannica made me think he's realized he might be gay and doesn't want to be so marrying her seemed like a solution to him.

I just wish he hadn't lied and said that he's been in love with her because that is not going to end well. From a practical point of view, I think it's better for Britannica to marry Bash instead of some random fan because if they get investigated by immigration, they can play up their history together ("we met while working on the show and became friends and then realized we were in love with each other!") which sounds a lot less suspicious than "I married some fan who kept bringing baked goods to the motel lobby."

As much as I would have loved Carmen winning the crown, I thought it was really sweet that everyone knew about the plan to let Zoya swoop in and win the crown after Ruth being unable to wrestle for two months. And the cheesy Starship song at the end! It seemed even more apropos since it was originally used in Mannequin (RIP Thomas!).

[iMonrey]

Quote

I think it was along the lines of how GLOW created the characters and owns them, but sold the tv rights to those characters to Glen. No different then if you write a successful novel, a studio might buy the movie rights to that novel, but unless it is explicit in the contract, they can't stop you from writing more stories with the same characters. It just wasn't really explained well, the same way it wasn't explained how a small time California cable channel is part of a network and is also producing their own police dramas.

Thanks for explaining that. I think the reason I had a hard time understanding the legalities and such is because this show has fictionalized the real story of Glow, and this isn't what happened in real life. I could understand why the TV station refused to sell the rights because that's something that happens in showbiz (spite, ego - whatever) but I had a hard time wrapping my head around how they could move the show to another venue like a live Vegas show if the TV station owned the characters.

[snarktini]

On 8/28/2018 at 2:02 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I just wish he hadn't lied and said that he's been in love with her because that is not going to end well. From a practical point of view, I think it's better for Britannica to marry Bash instead of some random fan because if they get investigated by immigration, they can play up their history together ("we met while working on the show and became friends and then realized we were in love with each other!") which sounds a lot less suspicious than "I married some fan who kept bringing baked goods to the motel lobby."

 

100%. I so wish he'd backtracked on that when she confessed she didn't love him -- he could have just said that part was for the camera. A platonic green-card marriage might work out okay for them if they were both on the same page. But in his panic, he's set up a no-win situation. 

I've never watched an actual wrestling show in my life, but I love this show. <3

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, snarktini said:

I've never watched an actual wrestling show in my life, but I love this show. <3

Same here. I never had any interest in wrestling, still don't. But on this show, I love every minute of it.