S03.E11: Fallen World

[raven]

Quote

Drummer and Ashford find themselves trapped with few options for survival. Anna tends to the wounded masses as Melba continues to hunt down her prey. The Rocinante crew struggles to survive as Naomi reunites with her true family.

[johntfs]

Pure speculation, but I suspect that this is where the twist comes that Ashford really is a good guy who is/was trying to do right by the Belters and Drummer.

[raven]

Spin the drum!

Very happy to have Naomi back on the Roci to fix up the guys except she almost gets killed by Melba.  I did love how defiant Naomi was to her.  Speaking of, go AWAY, Melba and nice timing, Anna.

Drummer nooooooooo.  Nothing like being squished together and unable to move to be able to have a real talk.

Next week is the 2 hour finale!

[marinw]

I loved the interior of the Behemoth and cheered when Ashford ordered the spinning of the drum.

Was that Monica who rescued Naomi ?

[raven]

2 minutes ago, marinw said:

Was that Monica who rescued Naomi ?

It was Anna; she followed Melba to the Roci.

[marinw]

12 minutes ago, raven said:

15 minutes ago, marinw said:

Was that Monica who rescued Naomi ?

It was Anna; she followed Melba to the Roci.

Ok Anna. You can stay. (not that there's much of a choice)

[WatchrTina]

THE GOOD:  Pastor Anna is a BAMF!  I had hoped that Bobbie would kick Melba's ass but Pastor Anna for the win!  

THE BAD:  Melba's single-minded pursuit of Holden in the midst of a catastrophe of downright biblical proportions is a little hard to swallow.

THE UGLY:  Impaled on rebar is a pretty horrible way to go. RIP Tilly.

Drummer's self-sacrifice to free Ashford was also a BAMF move and I refuse to accept the idea that she is dead as a result.  Nope, my interpretation is that Ashford spun up the ship specifically to provide an environment wherein Drummer could recover from her crush injury AND that when she recovers he will voluntary hand command of the ship back over to her out of gratitude for what she did to save him.  (Okay a small part of me suspects that Ashford also spun up the ship because he knew he had internal injuries that were likely to kill him in prolonged weightlessness.)

Edited June 21, 2018 by WatchrTina

[CheetaraThunder]

The best part of the episode was finally getting thTNaomi/Amos scene....made me tear up. Absence makes the heart grow founder

[ferjy]

4 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

THE GOOD:  Pastor Anna is a BAMF!  I had hoped that Bobbie would kick Melba's ass but Pastor Anna for the win!  

THE BAD:  Melba's single-minded pursuit of Holden in the midst of a catastrophe of downright biblical proportions is a little hard to swallow.

THE UGLY:  Impaled on rebar is a pretty horrible way to go. RIP Tilly.

Drummer's self-sacrifice to free Ashford was also a BAMF move and I refuse to accept the idea that she is dead as a result.  Nope, my interpretation is that Ashford spun up the ship specifically to provide an environment wherein Drummer could recover from her crush injury AND that when she recovers he will voluntary hand command of the ship back over to her out of gratitude for what she did to save him.  (Okay a small part of me suspects that Ashford also spun up the ship because he knew he had internal injuries that were likely to kill him in prolonged weightlessness.)

More likely the latter. What a weenie Ashford is. He’s the one who should have let himself be crushed to save Drummer. I was so hoping this episode would be the end of him. Lol, sorry, I really dislike the actor! I cringe at his every scene. That pathetic accent. We need Dawes to return. Now that Jared Harris is done with The Terror maybe he’ll be back.

[marinw]

What's with Drummer's eye makeup? She dosn't seem the type to spend a lot of time on makeup.

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, ferjy said:

More likely the latter. What a weenie Ashford is. He’s the one who should have let himself be crushed to save Drummer. I was so hoping this episode would be the end of him. Lol, sorry, I really dislike the actor! I cringe at his every scene. That pathetic accent. We need Dawes to return. Now that Jared Harris is done with The Terror maybe he’ll be back.

I think if he'd had the option, he'd have sacrificed himself.  It's just that that particular ball landed in Drummer's court.  I like the way this show defies expectations.  On 90% of other shows, the "twist" would have been that the clearly untrustworthy first officer was actually *gasp* untrustworthy.  Here, it's that he's actually a decent person who cares for the Belt, the Belters and their place in the universe.

Spinning the Behemoth and then inviting the other ships to send their wounded (along with medical supplies) was a pretty genius move that will likely redound in the Belt's favor.

And Melba gets Tased by an Angel (or at least by somebody who theoretically believes in angels).

Amos continues to be awesome.  "You changed your hair."

[mjc570]

49 minutes ago, marinw said:

What's with Drummer's eye makeup? She dosn't seem the type to spend a lot of time on makeup.

I think it's less makeup than war paint.

[MissLucas]

Geez, this show makes a gazillion of good points to stay in our cozy gravity well!!! To me that was more horrific than any of the protomolecule body-horror - that was sci-fi, this is physics *shudders*

Great character work all around. I like to think that Anna's feelings of guilt were a factor in helping her getting out there after Melba. Even Naomi, a Belter with space-walking experience, didn't look too keen entering that eerie space-mist. Ashford remains an intriguing character - doing and saying all the right things yet keeping an aura of  non trustworthiness.

Ashford and Drummer's conversation about the uniforms was terrific - great insight into the problems Belters are facing now that they're closer than ever to getting a place at the adult table.

[marinw]

21 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Ashford and Drummer's conversation about the uniforms was terrific - great insight into the problems Belters are facing now that they're closer than ever to getting a place at the adult table.

I find this part fascinating. So many Space Operas or fantasies are focused on the underdogs achieving power and respect. What happens after the Revolution or the achievement of statehood? To what extent does a new nation have to become like the people they were resisting? I always appreciate it when this is explored.

[Holmbo]

Great episode! I marvel at the zero-G effects. So fascinating and horrifying with all that injury, the blood pooling everywhere, the tears not leaving Tillys eyes.

Drummer and Asford felt like the MVPs of the episode. I'm so confused about Asford though! It seemed to me that he caused the hand terminal to be crushed on purpose. Anyone else got that feeling? Maybe he was planning to let Drummer die but when she sacrificed herself for the good of the ship he changed his mind?

On 2018-06-21 at 4:50 AM, WatchrTina said:

Drummer's self-sacrifice to free Ashford was also a BAMF move and I refuse to accept the idea that she is dead as a result.  Nope, my interpretation is that Ashford spun up the ship specifically to provide an environment wherein Drummer could recover from her crush injury AND that when she recovers he will voluntary hand command of the ship back over to her out of gratitude for what she did to save him.  (Okay a small part of me suspects that Ashford also spun up the ship because he knew he had internal injuries that were likely to kill him in prolonged weightlessness.)

 

No way she's dead. I also felt like Ashford cared about Drummer recovering, I'm not so sure about handing the controls back to her though. He didn't correct the guy calling him captain and he said "my ship" when sending the message to the inners. Drummer should still watch her back, which is difficult while being unconscious. I don't think that Ashford will openly hurt her, but if he gets another opportunity to let her die he might. BTW how did they even get stuck like that, on different sides  of the truck? I don't remember what positions they were in when we saw them last episode. Weren't they standing next to each other?

The different interpretations of the PM actions are interesting. Bobbie interprets that the freeze was a defensive maneuver while the other martian sees it as hostile because it killed so many people. I don't know what I think. It felt kinda automatic or instinctive.

Is Holden Bran Stark now? I hope not.

I was never scared for Naomi, but I was very curious on how she was going to get out of it. Did not at all expect Anna to have followed her.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Holmbo

[marinw]

7 minutes ago, Holmbo said:

Is Holden Bran Star now?

I'm comparing him to Anders on Battlestar Galactica who ended up in a cosmic bathtub. 

[Clanstarling]

14 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Drummer's self-sacrifice to free Ashford was also a BAMF move and I refuse to accept the idea that she is dead as a result.  Nope, my interpretation is that Ashford spun up the ship specifically to provide an environment wherein Drummer could recover from her crush injury AND that when she recovers he will voluntary hand command of the ship back over to her out of gratitude for what she did to save him.  (Okay a small part of me suspects that Ashford also spun up the ship because he knew he had internal injuries that were likely to kill him in prolonged weightlessness.)

I think Ashford, for all of his probable scheming, is a pretty good leader. Spinning the drum was good for him - but it was also good for Drummer and their crew (I was somewhat disappointed to see Diogo unharmed). I think he does respect Drummer, and they did get to know each other a bit better. But his "Captain of the OPA Behemoth" statement to the ships in the area was a bit worrisome. Not "Acting Captain" and, I'm not sure, but I don't think the Behemoth is officially OPA? Belter, yes.

10 hours ago, ferjy said:

More likely the latter. What a weenie Ashford is. He’s the one who should have let himself be crushed to save Drummer. I was so hoping this episode would be the end of him. Lol, sorry, I really dislike the actor! I cringe at his every scene. That pathetic accent. We need Dawes to return. Now that Jared Harris is done with The Terror maybe he’ll be back.

It is interesting how we can react differently. I am very much enjoying Ashford, though I'm not a particular fan of the actor. On the other hand, I love Jared Harris, but hated Dawes and wanted him off of my screen.

5 hours ago, johntfs said:

I think if he'd had the option, he'd have sacrificed himself.  It's just that that particular ball landed in Drummer's court.  I like the way this show defies expectations.  On 90% of other shows, the "twist" would have been that the clearly untrustworthy first officer was actually *gasp* untrustworthy.  Here, it's that he's actually a decent person who cares for the Belt, the Belters and their place in the universe.

Spinning the Behemoth and then inviting the other ships to send their wounded (along with medical supplies) was a pretty genius move that will likely redound in the Belt's favor.

Decency, or pragmatic politics. Not sure which one I'd say was Ashford's motive. Despite his background, I've never doubted he cared for the Belt and the Belters - he just had a different view of how to get Belters to the playing field.

35 minutes ago, Holmbo said:

Drummer and Asford felt like the MVPs of the episode. I'm so confused about Asford though! It seemed to me that he caused the hand terminal to be crushed on purpose. Anyone else got that feeling? Maybe he was planning to let Drummer die but when she sacrificed herself for the good of the ship he changed his mind?

No way she's dead. I also felt like Ashford cared about Drummer recovering, I'm not so sure about handing the controls back to her though. He didn't correct the guy calling him captain and he said "my ship" when sending the message to the inners. Drummer should still watch her back, which is difficult while being unconscious. I don't think that Ashford will openly hurt her, but if he gets another opportunity to let her die he might. BTW how did they even get stuck like that, on different sides  of the truck? I don't remember what positions they were in when we saw them last episode. Weren't they standing next to each other?

I didn't get the feeling he did it deliberately - especially since the terminal was, until Drummer's sacrifice, their only hope of getting help. On the other hand, I think Drummer still needs to watch her back if they don't kill her off.

So, I guess everyone's going to converge on the Behemoth. Surely Bobbie and Holden will get there - but I worry about those two with her. It was a fascinating look how three people looking at the same events could see them so very differently. Bobbie's the ranking member, but I wonder if they'll try to overthrow her.

[thuganomics85]

Well, this episode sure had a shit ton of brutal, but beautiful looking shots when showing all of the aftermath carnage.  The way this show is able to show all of this is just amazing to me.

It is always great to me when it is a scene involving just guest actors/characters that end up stealing the show, and I thought the Drummer/Ashford scenes were by far the best of this episode.  Their relationship really did not go the way I predicted.  I still suspect that Ashford is self-serving and prideful in the end (he seemed to clearly enjoy referring to himself as captain at the end), but I do think he truly does what he thinks is right for Belters, and I even think he is sincere about his respect for Drummer, and his panic reactions when he knew what she was planning to do (potentially sacrifice herself), were genuine.  As for Drummer, I'm pretty sure she was seen twitching briefly, so I definitely don't think she is dead, but I have to imagine if she does survive all of this, she will be changed.  Either way, spectacular scenes.  David Strathairn and, as always, Cara Gee killed it.

Glad Naomi is now back at the Roci, and even though I deep down knew everyone would be OK, it was still intense when she found both Alex and Amos' unconscious bodies. I did love that Alex likely just confused her even more if his remarks about Holden going off with Miller.  And Amos' reaction at the end to her return was totally Amos!

Bobbie so better keep an eye on her fellow Martians, because they totally could be bad news.  Especially the guy.

Did not predict that it would be Anna taking out Melba.  Curious to see how Anna will interact with the Roci crew now (especially her and Amos.)  As for Melba, I really don't know what is going on with her.  Her need to revenge has just driven her to the point that she's become unlikable and one-dimensional now.  The moments where she was showing regret about her first kill seem to have just disappeared.  Meanwhile, poor Anna knows that she accidentally sent Tilly to her death, so I can only imagine what is going to happened to her.

I hope they find some way to work in Chrisjen in the finale, since her absence has been noticeable these past few episodes.

Edited June 22, 2018 by thuganomics85

[anamika]

Didn't Miller say that it was 1G down at the ring station? Bobbie easily lifting up Holden and carrying him like he weighed nothing was impressive.

Those Martian marines continue to be as dumb as a box of rocks especially Trepp who wanted Bobbie to murder their unarmed, unconscious prisoner. 7 months to get back to the ring? Damn.

Tilly told Anna that it was all her fault, lol! Poor Tilly, she did not deserve that. Props to Anna for finally taking down Melba.

Seeing the effects of zero G - the blood, the tears, the fire etc. was beautiful. Ashford spinning the drum for spin gravity and offering medical support for the inners was nice. The Behemoth is massive, damn.

Ashford has some complexity to him right now. Like Sadavir in the earlier seasons. People tend to forget that Sadavir was the one who prohibited Chrisjen from torturing prisoners in season one. Hopefully Ashford does not turn into a complete mass murdering villain like Errinwright did in season 3.

Naomi reunites with Amos and Alex. And immediately gets attacked. Will be interesting to see Anna on the Roci with the crew.

Was that a fork sticking into Alex? And his Mariner valley lasagna floating around, lol? It was good that Noami got there before Melba. Those guys would have been toast otherwise.

Next week looks exciting!

Edited June 22, 2018 by anamika

[Haleth]

26 minutes ago, anamika said:

Didn't Miller say that it was 1G down at the ring station? Bobbie easily lifting up Holden and carrying him like he weighed nothing was impressive.

It was her power suit that allowed her to pick him up. 

I was thinking that the Drummer/Ashford scenes were going on too long but they certainly paid off.  I'm hoping she is still alive and I was glad to see he took action to help heal all the wounded from all the ships. 

The reveal of Melba's identity and her take down was surprising with two hours left. Thank goodness Anna followed her and thank goodness Naomi is back on the Roci. I have to admit to getting a little misty when she called the crew her family. 

[Netfoot]

22 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Drummer's self-sacrifice to free Ashford was also a BAMF move and I refuse to accept the idea that she is dead as a result.

I agree 100%.  She better not be dead!

22 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I had hoped that Bobbie would kick Melba's ass but

I was hoping Amos would catch her thottling Naomi.

8 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Not "Acting Captain" and, I'm not sure, but I don't think the Behemoth is officially OPA? Belter, yes.

His whole reason for being there was to co-opt the ship for the OPA.  And now, he has succeeded by default.

[anamika]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

It was her power suit that allowed her to pick him up.

Right. I forgot these marines have their power suits.  I assumed they were wearing the same Martian vac suits that Holden had on to get inside the ring station.

Edited June 22, 2018 by anamika

[ferjy]

15 hours ago, johntfs said:

I think if he'd had the option, he'd have sacrificed himself.  It's just that that particular ball landed in Drummer's court.  I like the way this show defies expectations.  On 90% of other shows, the "twist" would have been that the clearly untrustworthy first officer was actually *gasp* untrustworthy.  Here, it's that he's actually a decent person who cares for the Belt, the Belters and their place in the universe.

Spinning the Behemoth and then inviting the other ships to send their wounded (along with medical supplies) was a pretty genius move that will likely redound in the Belt's favor.

And Melba gets Tased by an Angel (or at least by somebody who theoretically believes in angels).

Amos continues to be awesome.  "You changed your hair."

Thanks, I misunderstood then. I thought that either of them could move it, but I guess only Drummer was near the controls.

[ferjy]

9 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

It is interesting how we can react differently. I am very much enjoying Ashford, though I'm not a particular fan of the actor. On the other hand, I love Jared Harris, but hated Dawes and wanted him off of my screen.

I guess he's a bit of a thorn in my side. I've seen a few series he was in recently, and every time his accent was so bad and acting not much better that for me it ruined the character he played. So it's hard for me to get into Ashford. And though Dawes was a villain, he was one I loved to hate. Mostly because of Jared Harris who I too love. He's been good in everything I've seen him in. Following in his father's footsteps (and those were big shoes to fill!).

[Holmbo]

Technical question. When the characters were having floaty arms but otherwise "sitting", do you think the actors had to just hold their arms in those positions or did they get wires? I'm thinking about the shots of Naomi being unconscious, and there was another shot too but I forgot which one. Imagine the burn after those shoots! 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Holmbo

[Captanne]

Well, this show just keeps getting better and better.  I have to say (I do) that I prefer binging it because I'm either "over" whatever Holden is going through or I will love it and am going to sit through a whole week of annoyance.  Because, as the "messiah" of the story, he's pretty boring right now.  Also, he kind of blew it for me with one word, 'end'.  If his revelation had been "everything" and left it there (rather than, when he repeats the statement, adding "the end of") I would have been happier.

I'm a comparative religion nerd and am a third of the way through my dissertation in humanities.  I have a good grasp of the God concept.  

That said, the rest of the episode was brilliant.

I don't quite understand that now, when it's standing squarely on its "brilliant" legs, SyFy decided to cancel it.  Thank goodness for fans and Bezos.  I hope it pays off.

Also, more Anderson Dawes, please.  I mean it.  We need him on set.

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, ferjy said:

I guess he's a bit of a thorn in my side. I've seen a few series he was in recently, and every time his accent was so bad and acting not much better that for me it ruined the character he played. So it's hard for me to get into Ashford. And though Dawes was a villain, he was one I loved to hate. Mostly because of Jared Harris who I too love. He's been good in everything I've seen him in. Following in his father's footsteps (and those were big shoes to fill!).

Wait...footsteps? Just looked it up - OMG he's Richard Harris' son?! I never knew that.

I do think Jared's Dawes is brilliant acting - so much so that I cannot stand his sight. I haven't seen Straithorn that often, but his accent has never bothered me. We all have different hot buttons. :)

[Captanne]

You need to see him as Crozier in "The Terror".  He's fucking phenomenal.  (And he looks just like his father.  But he's a much better actor.)

 

ETA:  I really like Anderson Dawes and it was his speech to Miller about Dawes' sister that tuned me into The Expanse in the first place.  I saw the two minute video of his performance on the PTV Terror forum.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Captanne

[WildPlum]

 I'd never though about wounds in zero g, that was an interesting aside. As was the stark assessment of the new "speed limit" and how badly they were all screwed by it.

Still don't trust Ashford - yes, we heard some of his other motivations (the bit where they discuss how to get Dawes to accept something was good), but he wants the Behemoth and he'll find a way to get it away from Drummer permanently. He'd have called himself "Acting Captain" otherwise.

 

Two hour episode next? Whoppee! I read somewhere that the producers said that if the entire series ended here it would feel complete, so I look forward to some closure with plots. We'll see what comes down the road with Amazon, but I can see how this story arc can be wrapped in two hours (I don't know where it is going, built it has certainly built to something that can be resolved).

Edited June 22, 2018 by WildPlum

[ferjy]

4 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Wait...footsteps? Just looked it up - OMG he's Richard Harris' son?! I never knew that.

I do think Jared's Dawes is brilliant acting - so much so that I cannot stand his sight. I haven't seen Straithorn that often, but his accent has never bothered me. We all have different hot buttons. :)

To be honest, I found out about the family connection only recently myself. Of course as soon as you know, you can see the resemblance. I first saw him in Mad Men, another great performance. 

Strathrain is always lapsing back to his American accent. He does it in every role where he uses a foreign accent. It’s even more apparent because the actors around him are very good at the accent in question, so his incapability stands out even more. Make a point of really listening, you’re sure to hear it. (Now you’ll be hearing accents even when he’s not using one! :-D )

Edited June 22, 2018 by ferjy

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, WildPlum said:

 I'd never though about wounds in zero g, that was an interesting aside. As was the stark assessment of the new "speed limit" and how badly they were all screwed by it.

Still don't trust Ashford - yes, we heard some of his other motivations (the bit where they discuss how to get Dawes to accept something was good), but he wants the Behemoth and he'll find a way to get it away from Drummer permanently. He'd have called himself "Acting Captain" otherwise.

 

Two hour episode next? Whoppee! I read somewhere that the producers said that if the entire series ended here it would feel complete, so I look forward to some closure with plots. We'll see what comes down the road with Amazon, but I can see how this story arc can be wrapped in two hours (I don't know where it is going, built it has certainly built to something that can be resolved).

It won't be wrapped up in 2 hours, though there will be a "stopping point."  It'll be wrapped up 5-6 episode into the next season just like all the other arcs.

Ashford might want the Behemoth, but figure part of the reason he referred to himself as "Captain" was to avoid showing weakness/division to the Inners that they might try to exploit. 

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

Ashford might want the Behemoth, but figure part of the reason he referred to himself as "Captain" was to avoid showing weakness/division to the Inners that they might try to exploit. 

That's plausible, and certainly part of it, but he says "Captain of the OPA Behemoth" - which is claiming the ship for the OPA. So he's got a lot of mixed motives in this episode, which made him tons more interesting to me.

4 hours ago, Captanne said:

You need to see him as Crozier in "The Terror".  He's fucking phenomenal.  (And he looks just like his father.  But he's a much better actor.)

 

Now that I know the relationship - I certainly see it. I've seen ads for The Terror. What's it on? We recently cut TV cable, so there a lot of shows we won't get anymore (despite the content rich streaming sites we now use.)

2 hours ago, ferjy said:

To be honest, I found out about the family connection only recently myself. Of course as soon as you know, you can see the resemblance. I first saw him in Mad Men, another great performance. 

Strathrain is always lapsing back to his American accent. He does it in every role where he uses a foreign accent. It’s even more apparent because the actors around him are very good at the accent in question, so his incapability stands out even more. Make a point of really listening, you’re sure to hear it. (Now you’ll be hearing accents even when he’s not using one! :-D )

 

Mad Men was my first introduction to him as well. And I loved him in The Crown (which is where, for me, his resemblance is really noticiable.)

I have been listening, since there have been a number of complaints.  But since Belter isn't real, and it is conceivable, given the nature of dialects, that they have multiple dialects with certain commonalities, I haven't heard anything that bothered me. Could be that, like Strathairn (just looked him up) I come from a family with widely divergent language backgrounds and accents, so it has to be a really botched accent I am familiar with for it to stand out for me. Because there are plenty of accents I hear actors use that make me cringe. Unfortunately, we're not going to hear ear to ear. (too much? probably. I apologize ahead of time.)

Edited June 22, 2018 by Clanstarling

[lidarose9]

I have no problem with David Straithairn's accent, and I agree about Belter dialects being different. It's part of what makes the Belters who they are: they are not one people. They've always been individuals and now they have to find unity, a common identity. I noticed Naomi had lapsed back into a broader Belter accent after having spent some months on the Behemoth. Earthers and Martians have different accents. Look at Bobbie. Look at Avasarala. The only way you get a uniform accent is by regimented schooling in a class system like the British used to have. 

Also I think he called himself Captain to give the impression of strength and unity. Right now the Behemoth is in a position to save the day for a ton of those people. That ship will have to become a kind of DS-9 space station for all the others, since it's the only one that was originally created for lengthy space travel. The Belters can be the heroes in this situation and he instinctively knows to play up their strengths. Also I think he has been addressed as Captain and referred to himself as Captain for so many years, it's probably second nature. Plus he's got a lot on his mind like his fucking punctured lung that just somehow stopped killing him. I do like him as an actor very much. I was having trouble with the swashbuckling pirate thing (expected to see an eye patch and wooden leg), but I can forgive that now. 

The pacing of this show always throws me off. Each season seems to reach a turning point around episode 4 or 5, so that the season feels like it has a first half and a second half. This season is no different.

The events of the last two episodes could easily have taken up four episodes. It kinda kills me how they all go barreling in there and nobody really stops and takes a look around, tries to understand it. Nobody investigates and describes or records or measures. They are in a different reality. They are experiencing a new set of rules for what they can and can't do. They should be tip-toeing, but instead they (with the hubris of humans) dash along with their own myopic dramas.

Silly Clarisse is a great example of this. She's in the middle of a new reality where the laws of physics don't apply. Some people feel it's miraculous, a life-changing religious experience. She's also just survived a major disaster, had to wade through dead and injured hip deep. She's committed murder not once now but twice. The enormity of ALL that is completely lost on her. She just blindly pursues her stupid (and mistaken) vendetta against Holden, as if any of that matters. Only a person who is obsessed to the point of insanity would do that. 

Edited June 26, 2018 by lidarose9
typos

[johntfs]

23 minutes ago, lidarose9 said:

Silly Clarisse is a great example of this. She's in the middle of a new reality where the laws of physics don't apply. Some people feel it's miraculous, a life-changing religious experience. She's also just survived a major disaster, had to wade through dead and injured hip deep. She's committed murder not once now but twice. The enormity of ALL that is completely lost on her. She just blindly pursues her stupid (and mistaken) vendetta against Holden, as if any of that matters. Only a person who is obsessed to the point of insanity would do that. 

That's kind of the point.  Clarisse is obsessed to the point of insanity.  Beyond all that, given her circumstances and actions, I think if she stopped to think about or process all that, she'd just curl up in the fetal position, weeping and begging for mercy.  So she doesn't stop.  Except that now she'd been stopped, so she'll have to deal with it anyway.

Meanwhile, figure Pastor Anna will have to get through to her to get her to undo what she had done to the Rocinante and otherwise help them save the solar system. 

Figure there's a good chance that, through no goal of her own, Clarissa Mao will help save humanity from the proto-molecule - something her dad utterly failed to do (once he started to try).

Edited June 22, 2018 by johntfs

[lidarose9]

5 minutes ago, johntfs said:

That's kind of the point.  Clarisse is obsessed to the point of insanity. 

That is what I meant. In this regard, Clarisse is representing all humanity. Self-obsessed? and ultimately insane? Or capable of seeing what's really happening? We'll see. Survival depends on it. 

[raven]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

Now that I know the relationship - I certainly see it. I've seen ads for The Terror. What's it on?

It was on AMC but the first season is over; hopefully you can watch it somewhere, it was good!  And yes, Jared Harris is fantastic in it.

46 minutes ago, lidarose9 said:

It kinda kills me how they all go barreling in there and nobody really stops and takes a look around, tries to understand it. Nobody investigates and describes or records or measures.

Well, everything did happen pretty fast; Melba blew up the ship, framed Holden, the Roci ran into the Ring and everyone followed.  Since then everyone's playing catch up to the various emergencies.  There is a fleet of ships though so I'm sure some are specifically for study and we're just not seeing the scientists, etc.

48 minutes ago, lidarose9 said:

I have no problem with David Straithairn's accent, and I agree about Belter dialects being different. It's part of what makes the Belters who they are: they are not one people.

I don't either but usually I don't hear what others do when they complain about accents, so I figured I just didn't notice them.  Ashford's is kind of harsh and brash, which I think fits the character.

[marinw]

15 hours ago, johntfs said:

Ashford might want the Behemoth, but figure part of the reason he referred to himself as "Captain" was to avoid showing weakness/division to the Inners that they might try to exploit. 

Thats an excellent point. At first I didn’t know what to make of Ashford but he is growing on me. He is an ambitious SOB who wants command of Drummer's ship. AND he is an inspired leader who cares deeply for his people and truly wants peace. A person can be more than one thing.

His invitation to the rest of the ships to bring in their wounded is an example of “Acting with greatness.”

Edited June 23, 2018 by marinw

[jhlipton]

AMC's The Terror is available on their website.     

[Holmbo]

@Captanne I share your trepidation about Holden as "the chosen one". I actually have hard time coming up with any scenario where they could take it that I'd like. If he knows "everything" then there's really not any mystery left.

On another topic. Did anyone else feel like Amos was giving Naomi the cold shoulder when she told him she was back to stay? It will be interesting to see their interactions in the next two episodes. If they have time for any for it while having to deal with "the chosen one" being captured by the Martians, and how to escape from the orbit of the nucleus. I wonder if Alex and Amos injuries are serious enough that they have to go to the Behemoth.

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, jhlipton said:

AMC's The Terror is available on their website.     

Sadly, like Syfy, when you register you have to specify your cable provider, and since we no longer have one... AMC does claim that you don't have to have one on the cable provider selection box, but then doesn't have an option to say "no provider." It's a Catch-22. If someone knows the special option for non-tv cable audiences, let me know.

6 hours ago, Holmbo said:

@Captanne I share your trepidation about Holden as "the chosen one". I actually have hard time coming up with any scenario where they could take it that I'd like. If he knows "everything" then there's really not any mystery left.

On another topic. Did anyone else feel like Amos was giving Naomi the cold shoulder when she told him she was back to stay? It will be interesting to see their interactions in the next two episodes. If they have time for any for it while having to deal with "the chosen one" being captured by the Martians, and how to escape from the orbit of the nucleus. I wonder if Alex and Amos injuries are serious enough that they have to go to the Behemoth.

Yes, I thought Amos was stand-offish. But then, he was kind of out of it. The thing that worries me is that Alex clearly hit his head hard, and he may have internal bleeding on the brain.

[edhopper]

On 6/21/2018 at 12:42 PM, Holmbo said:

Drummer and Asford felt like the MVPs of the episode. I'm so confused about Asford though! It seemed to me that he caused the hand terminal to be crushed on purpose. Anyone else got that feeling? Maybe he was planning to let Drummer die but when she sacrificed herself for the good of the ship he changed his mind?

 

I rewound that bit and watched it again. Because I thought so too. But it was just bad editing. They showed Ashford's reaction to the controls shorting out before it blew and the mech crushed the terminal.

[Haleth]

Yeah, it was easy to misinterpret that scene but I think crushing the terminal was an accident.  It looked like the console shorted out and Ashford's hand jumped.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Haleth

[WatchrTina]

9 hours ago, Holmbo said:

Did anyone else feel like Amos was giving Naomi the cold shoulder when she told him she was back to stay?

No, I just thought Amos was being Amos.  Note the following is pure speculation from what I've seen on the show -- nothing from the books.   It was hinted long ago that Amos' brain does not function the way most people's brains function.  It was hinted at first when Amos was so interested in hearing about how the scientists working on the protomolecule had had their empathy turned off.  I interpreted that as being a clue that something similar had happened to him.  It was hinted at a second time just last episode when Amos said that he hasn't been afraid since he was five years old.  I think Amos suffered something catastrophic at age five that altered his brain at the place that processes emotion.  I don't know if it was a physical injury or a psychological trauma but Amos is a bit broken.  The good news is that he knows it and he attaches himself to someone he admires and trusts to serve as his moral compass in situations where his lack of emotional connection to others might interfere with his making good, ethical decisions.  That's why he was so attached to Naomi and why it was so devastating to him when she did something he viewed a s betrayal.  (I've kind of forgotten what that was . . . was it her giving the protomolecule to Fred Johnson?)  Anyway, Amos' reaction to seeing Naomi again ("You changed your hair") was, for me, just classic Amos (though it's entirely possible that he's also got some post-concussion confusion going on.)  Amos' reaction to Naomi's declaration that she was back to stay WAS subdued -- he's not really the hugging type -- but I think he's really glad to see her.  He latched on to Prax as his substitute moral compass for a while there but Prax is gone and Amos knows he's better off with Naomi back in his life than he is without her.  Also she's really good at fixing stuff that he and Alex are clueless about.  So there's that.

Edited June 23, 2018 by WatchrTina

[Captanne]

I did think Amos was standoffish but we kind of know what makes him tick.  He is so literal.  His response may have been "I can't be glad you're back because I'm not glad you will leave again and that is your track record now."  Therefore, he acknowledges her presence but now he has no ability to rely on her permanence.

That's how I took it.  

But, I did notice.

[ferjy]

On 6/22/2018 at 5:49 PM, Clanstarling said:

That's plausible, and certainly part of it, but he says "Captain of the OPA Behemoth" - which is claiming the ship for the OPA. So he's got a lot of mixed motives in this episode, which made him tons more interesting to me.

Now that I know the relationship - I certainly see it. I've seen ads for The Terror. What's it on? We recently cut TV cable, so there a lot of shows we won't get anymore (despite the content rich streaming sites we now use.)

Mad Men was my first introduction to him as well. And I loved him in The Crown (which is where, for me, his resemblance is really noticiable.)

I have been listening, since there have been a number of complaints.  But since Belter isn't real, and it is conceivable, given the nature of dialects, that they have multiple dialects with certain commonalities, I haven't heard anything that bothered me. Could be that, like Strathairn (just looked him up) I come from a family with widely divergent language backgrounds and accents, so it has to be a really botched accent I am familiar with for it to stand out for me. Because there are plenty of accents I hear actors use that make me cringe. Unfortunately, we're not going to hear ear to ear. (too much? probably. I apologize ahead of time.)

lol  To clarify about the accent, it's not that he isn't doing a good Belter accent per se, it's that he keeps slipping back to his American accent. He does the same with other accents. I know it's not easy, I couldn't do a good accent, let alone maintain it, to save my life, but I don't get why they keep casting the actor doing accents if he's so bad at it. Someone must owe him some big favours.  ;-D

[Holmbo]

I'm very curious what sort of climax we will see in the coming double ep finale. In the last two seasons it's been very clear what they've been building towards but here I've very little sense of where they're going. Maybe Holden will have been given some sort of solution to getting out of the ring and it will be about executing that. 

I'm dubious that it will live up to the mid season climax. 

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, Holmbo said:

I'm very curious what sort of climax we will see in the coming double ep finale. In the last two seasons it's been very clear what they've been building towards but here I've very little sense of where they're going. Maybe Holden will have been given some sort of solution to getting out of the ring and it will be about executing that. 

I'm dubious that it will live up to the mid season climax. 

If you're talking about "Immolation," that was really more the "second season" climax than the "mid-season" climax.  This show has tended to have less episodes per season than it needs to tell its story.  The first season needed 15 episodes and should have ended with the second season episode, "Home."  The second season needed 14 episode and should have ended with "Immolation."  Figure while this season will certainly end on a point of tension, the real climax of this story arc won't come until 5-6 episodes into Season 4.

[Holmbo]

@johntfs I think both season one and two had good climaxes. To me the focus of the first season was the mystery of Eros and everything related to it. The last episode showed the experiment as a climax of the conspiracy. The second season showed  the fallout from the experiment, both with the results on Eros and what it meant personally for different characters. 

With season three I'm not so sure. But we'll see next week ?

Edited June 24, 2018 by Holmbo

[jhlipton]

On 6/23/2018 at 12:01 AM, Holmbo said:

Did anyone else feel like Amos was giving Naomi the cold shoulder when she told him she was back to stay?

On 6/23/2018 at 9:06 AM, WatchrTina said:

No, I just thought Amos was being Amos.

Amos doesn't do "standoffish".  He will like you, hate you or ignore you.    Since that was a more positive statement than not, that's very welcoming for Amos.

[Captanne]

"Standoffish" may not be a term that works for some but I'm not sure I would reduce his responses to just three.  

My impression from that scene was that he reacted badly to her return but it was most certainly neither hatred nor an ignoring of her.  

Edited June 25, 2018 by Captanne