S05.E14: Stupid Watergate, Special Counsel investigation 2018.06.10

[Victor the Crab]

10 hours ago, b2H said:

I was a junior in high school during WG and had the privilege of touring the White House the day before the resignation, so you can imagine what a pressure cooker that was, but I digress.

A couple of things we have now were missing then:

There were no Faux News channels then.  The three major networks were all that was available.  The reporters were true journalists.  The media were not profit centers.  Their owners, TV and newspapers alike, understood that news had to be ferreted out, regardless of the cost.  For a clear and pertinent example of this, get hold of a copy of the movie ‘All the President’s Men’ which tells the story of how the Watergate story broke.  The movie will give you a clear picture of why some of us older folks bemoan the current crop of talking heads that make up the media today.

Second, the WWII generation were in their 40s and 50s.  There was total and irrevocable respect for the institutions that made up the basis of our society.  None of them - NONE of them - would have tolerated the tearing down and disrespect being given all of the institutions that are being dragged through the mud and worse today.  They fought for these institutions.  No one was going to demean them on their watch.  It wasn’t skepticism; it was how in hell did his happen?

The Watergate scandal was new.  No one could imagine any President behaving like this.  Sure, there was Teapot Dome and such, but Watergate was much, much bigger.  

Today, we have Faux Noise; weakened and demeaned media; watered down institutions and 24 hour a day news cycles.  

Definitely go watch the movie.  It will open your eyes as to how today is so different.

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[peeayebee]

13 hours ago, b2H said:

I was a junior in high school during WG and had the privilege of touring the White House the day before the resignation, so you can imagine what a pressure cooker that was, but I digress.

Wow. Could you really see or feel the tension?

I was in England with my sister and mom in 1974 (I was 15), there when Nixon resigned. 

[b2H]

7 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Wow. Could you really see or feel the tension?

I was in England with my sister and mom in 1974 (I was 15), there when Nixon resigned. 

The tour took about half the time it normally did because they wanted us in and out of there.  No calm exhibition of all the history, because history was probably being made upstairs or in the West Wing.  There was definitely a hurried, get through and get out feeling to the tour.

The next night I was back at my job in a department store near the TV section when the resignation speech was made.  When I whooped over it, I got a lot of dirty looks from those standing near by.

I haven’t done the tour since that day.

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, b2H said:

The tour took about half the time it normally did because they wanted us in and out of there.  No calm exhibition of all the history, because history was probably being made upstairs or in the West Wing.  There was definitely a hurried, get through and get out feeling to the tour.

The next night I was back at my job in a department store near the TV section when the resignation speech was made.  When I whooped over it, I got a lot of dirty looks from those standing near by.

I haven’t done the tour since that day.

LOL, oh, wow. That's amazing. I'm sorry that you weren't able to be there at a time when you actually could take a proper tour of the place, though. 

Thanks for your full analysis of the difference between then and now, too, and why the response to both scandals is so different. I agree that the lack of 24 hour news channels and Fox and that certainly helped keep things more focused, and you make an excellent point about the respect for institutions that doesn't seem to exist as much nowadays, which made it easier for people to demand answers. I certainly won't disagree that our institutions are deeply flawed and have failed us in many ways in recent times, and I get the helpless feeling many are having nowadays, believe me. And I also get that in a 24-hour news media everything feels overwhelming to the point of not knowing what, if anything, to do, even if you do want to do something.

But still, I'd think there'll have to be a breaking point eventually, where the public as a whole, even perhaps including some Trump supporters, finally rises up and says, "Enough of this shit" and fights back and finally demands answers and consequences. It'll be very interesting to see what happens when Mueller's investigation finally reveals everything. 

Regarding All the President's Men, I do recall watching that in my journalism class in high school...but it's been so long, so yeah. I'll look for that movie and watch it again. Would no doubt resonate strongly in today's climate, I'm sure. 

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Regarding All the President's Men, I do recall watching that in my journalism class in high school...but it's been so long, so yeah. I'll look for that movie and watch it again. Would no doubt resonate strongly in today's climate, I'm sure. 

It's a sad sign of the times that no one suggested READING THE BOOK by Woodward and Bernstein that goes into depth about the Watergate investigation, rather than watching a fictionalized movie version.  

[Danny Franks]

18 hours ago, Annber03 said:

 Regarding All the President's Men, I do recall watching that in my journalism class in high school...but it's been so long, so yeah. I'll look for that movie and watch it again. Would no doubt resonate strongly in today's climate, I'm sure. 

Just think how future generations will read and watch the inevitable books and movies about Stupid Watergate. "Oh come on! Do they really expect me to believe that happened? That's so stupid. No one could be that stupid." And "how the hell were these people not all locked up immediately? They're so blindingly obviously guilty!"

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Just think how future generations will read and watch the inevitable books and movies about Stupid Watergate. "Oh come on! Do they really expect me to believe that happened? That's so stupid. No one could be that stupid." And "how the hell were these people not all locked up immediately? They're so blindingly obviously guilty!"

When we were talking about Nixon erasing part of the tape in my history class, one of my classmates asked my teacher, "Why didn't he just get rid of the whole thing if he really wanted to hide the evidence?" and my teacher simply said, "That's a good question. I have absolutely no idea." :p.

I have often been thinking about how the hell we'll even begin to explain this entire time period to future generations. I have no doubt they'll think we've made so much of this crazy shit up and we'll just go, "No, seriously, you really just had to be there." 

@AuntieDiane6, thanks for the mention of the book. I'll try and see if I can find that, too. 

[link417]

On 6/17/2018 at 12:12 PM, AuntieDiane6 said:

It's a sad sign of the times that no one suggested READING THE BOOK by Woodward and Bernstein that goes into depth about the Watergate investigation, rather than watching a fictionalized movie version.  

I don’t think it’s so surprising on a TV forum.

[Hanahope]

What is so annoying is that Hannity gets to say whatever far fetched conspiracy theory and lie he wants and is protected by claiming "its opinion, its entertainment, its not news" even though he's doing so on a channel called fox NEWS, and most people aren't sophisticated enough to realize this.  They see "news" in the name and assume everything is fact, when its not. 

And I see the 'whataboutism' all the time.  Its the favorite 'go to' deflect.

[ahisma]

On 6/26/2018 at 12:56 PM, Hanahope said:

What is so annoying is that Hannity gets to say whatever far fetched conspiracy theory and lie he wants and is protected by claiming "its opinion, its entertainment, its not news" even though he's doing so on a channel called fox NEWS, and most people aren't sophisticated enough to realize this. 

This is absolutely correct. Pew Research just did a study, and only a quarter of Americans can accurately distinguish fact from opinion. (Half performed as well as random guessing and a quarter got the answers absolutely wrong.) 

http://www.journalism.org/2018/06/18/distinguishing-between-factual-and-opinion-statements-in-the-news/