S02.E08: Kiksuya

[tennisgurl]

All of the labyrinth/maze imagery that this show has going on (especially this episode) makes me wonder if this also has a Minotaur metaphor thing going on. Ake and/or Maeve is Theseus, who is trying to find the center of the maze to save their people, who have been murdered in the maze for generations, and the Minotaur is...William? Ford? Some other monster at the center of the maze? The actual park control center?

Or am I grasping? 

[LoveLeigh]

What was the line? "Sometimes intentions are misunderstood?" Wow, Maeve thought Akecheta was there for a bad purpose (because he looked scary) and he was there to help them. The line was delivered so well. 

[Dame sans merci]

2 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

What was the line? "Sometimes intentions are misunderstood?" Wow, Maeve thought Akecheta was there for a bad purpose (because he looked scary) and he was there to help them. The line was delivered so well. 

I mean, he did leave her child a blood covered-rock. I can see why his intentions weren't exactly clear to her.

This episode was so beautiful and lyrical and poignant. It felt like a entirely different show. It certainly moved me in a way Westworld hasn't managed before.

(And by moved me, I mean I ugly cried for the back half).

Edited June 13, 2018 by Dame sans merci

[Uncle JUICE]

7 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

What was the line? "Sometimes intentions are misunderstood?" Wow, Maeve thought Akecheta was there for a bad purpose (because he looked scary) and he was there to help them. The line was delivered so well. 

Maybe show up sans warpaint, Aketcheta. Just an idea. Maybe not creeping around on her porch, maybe like wait until they're out in the open, show up in regular clothes, and yell from a distance with a welcoming countenance. I mean I'm no expert. 

[teddysmom]

 I gave up on Lost but I'm all in for seeing how this is going to unfold.

Spoiler

Was that Sela Ward in the preview? MIB's wife?

[shockermolar]

28 minutes ago, teddysmom said:

 I gave up on Lost but I'm all in for seeing how this is going to unfold.

  Reveal hidden contents

Was that Sela Ward in the preview? MIB's wife?

I don't think that needs to be hidden - they've already announced her casting and the role.

[piequinn35]

Well that was a good episode, I knew GN wasn't bad, they didn't kill Emily or Stubbs before.

That was a good point that when Ake was talking in Lakota, he was talking to Maeve, & English with the kid.

Also, someone pointed out that if Arnold wanted to kill all the hosts so the park wouldn't open, did he forget to kill the Natives? 

OR the natives were killed except Ake? coz he always wander around.

And William still alive huh, couldn't kill him because his game (narrative?) is not over yet.

[The Companion]

36 minutes ago, piequinn35 said:

Also, someone pointed out that if Arnold wanted to kill all the hosts so the park wouldn't open, did he forget to kill the Natives? 

 

I found this odd during the episode. Given how tight most of the show is, I sort of expected some confirmation that Arnold didn't know about them. After all, when we saw Arnold working with the hosts prior to that point, he was still trying to get them to behave naturally. The Natives we saw seemed to be much more natural/closer to the final product. I wondered if they were secreted away by Ford (though it does seem less likely given that Aketcheta was definitely present for the presentation, and therefore would have likely interacted with Arnold). I can't imagine Arnold not wondering what happened to that host. Ford did say:"I built you to be curious," which could imply that he built the native tribe (as he created himself without anyone's knowledge and later Bernard), but that is definitely not a confirmation. 

 

I supposed the other explanation is that he never intended Dolores kill every host. Instead, she just had to do enough damage to destroy the funding, and therefore any chance that the park would open. Did they actually say she was killing all the hosts, or did we just assume that? I honestly don't remember. 

[jeansheridan]

I won't lie. Initially meeting these new characters right now annoyed me a lot. It was a slow ep. But the power of Maeve and her single minded love and purpose hit me hard. Thandie Newton should win an Emmy for laying quietly on a table. All of her work this season created that final moment. Charlotte Hale better watch your back. 

[MadameKillerB]

I have been bored silly by this season. But this episode was so so beautiful in terms of cinematography and acting and the way the story unfolded...Westworld got me hooked again!

[jeansheridan]

It is a hard show to love. It is more about ideas than emotion but Thandie and Arnold and poor damaged Teddy have hooked me this season. And Tessa Thompson makes such a great villain. 

[Nashville]

Quite possibly my favorite episode of the series to date.

 

Quote

Also, why did lady-who-was-in-charge-before-Bernard tell them to return him to the park unchanged?  Updated software but the same hardware apparently.  Whimsy or some diabolical scheme?  It's also difficult to believe that an Alpha-2 model mechanical host never needed maintenance in 9+ years.

From a tech point of view?  Pure curiosity, quite possibly - if Aketcheta has lasted this long, how long might he go?

Second possibility: Tech Lady is wondering if (a) Aketcheta is a special prototype/project of Ford’s or some other superior, and (b) how deep in shit she might be if she interferes in some heavy hitter’s pet project.

 

On 6/11/2018 at 2:26 AM, grawlix said:

Akecheta's journey into the sub-basement did occur relatively early in the life of Westworld and the repair tech mentioned that they were understaffed.  So one could make a leap to think that there were not many security protocols in place and when the employees went to lunch, there wasn't anyone around during that time.   

Lest we forget, throughout the vast majority of S1 the “Cold Storage” sub-basement was little more than a fancy name for Delos’ garbage pile - hell, Park Maintenance couldn’t even be bothered to fix the busted water pipes down there.  The lobotomized hosts were not treated as valuable assets; they were trash - offal - scrap to be shoved off in an unused corner until somebody came up with a reason to expend the time and resources to recover what they could salvage, and junk the rest.  And outside of the U. S. Military, who spends money on men with guns to guard waste?

[piequinn35]

4 hours ago, The Companion said:

I found this odd during the episode. Given how tight most of the show is, I sort of expected some confirmation that Arnold didn't know about them. After all, when we saw Arnold working with the hosts prior to that point, he was still trying to get them to behave naturally. The Natives we saw seemed to be much more natural/closer to the final product. I wondered if they were secreted away by Ford (though it does seem less likely given that Aketcheta was definitely present for the presentation, and therefore would have likely interacted with Arnold). I can't imagine Arnold not wondering what happened to that host. Ford did say:"I built you to be curious," which could imply that he built the native tribe (as he created himself without anyone's knowledge and later Bernard), but that is definitely not a confirmation. 

 

I supposed the other explanation is that he never intended Dolores kill every host. Instead, she just had to do enough damage to destroy the funding, and therefore any chance that the park would open. Did they actually say she was killing all the hosts, or did we just assume that? I honestly don't remember. 

I guess it's the second, he just wanted to show them that the hosts malfuctioned and killed a human, one less great Scientist and funding deterrent. 

[jeansheridan]

I think the reason the Ghost Nation survived the first slaughter could be twofold. Dolores couldn't kill everyone and perhaps the GNs were a pet project for Ford, like his replication of his family and pet dog. He did seem very precise in his language. "I made you curious. " Not the usual "we". 

I am so happy Hopkins came back even for just a few scenes. He adds a lot. Poor Ed Harris is the one who got short changed this season. And maybe Jeffrey Wright but I have hopes for the last two eps.

[DarkRaichu]

Finally I was able to watch the whole episode from start to finish.  I found Aketcheta's language (maybe the tone?) to be very soothing and I dozed off a couple of times when he spoke :P

- MiB is better be revealed to be half bot (aka 1 million dollars man) or 100% bot.  How the heck was he able to crawl to the river after being shot 3 times?

- I like the reveal at the end: when Ake talked in Kohana he was speaking to Maeve  through her daughter (via mesh network).  Also Maeve's response after she understood his intention to protect her daughter, she entrusted her heart to Ake.

- Just a little timeline review.  Ake was part of beta test and his peaceful origin showed that. As Logan mentioned, in the beginning Westworld only had peaceful stories then they changed.  I assumed part of that change was to make some natives mean and tough warriors (ghost nation).  And the male tech was so overworked he only changed behavior parameters instead of rewriting Ake's story structures, per female tech's suggestion.  This was before they had an actual Behavior team.

- Ake then found dead Arnold (flashback in season 1) and 3-4 years later he also found naked!Logan.  So Ake is the older mechanical version of the bots.  Somebody in the show mentioned that the mechanical bots were more durable than organic but organic was cheaper to reproduce.   This was most likely why Ake could last 10 years without maintenance.

- After he found Logan, Ake saw the Valley Beyond being built, presumably what slightly older William showed Delores in ep1.   Presumably a few years had passed when Ake woke his wife, at which point the facility was done and covered/camuflaged to look like an actual valley.

- Apparently in 10 years, the female tech above was promoted to Behavior team lead. She definitely did not want to do paperwork / or explain to higher ups how an older model host still walk around without any upgrades in 10 years. :P  Again, overworked staffs = sloppiness & oversights.
This kind of explained how in season 1 Bernard or Elsie said there were still 1000 older model bots in the park.

- Even though Ake gained some awareness, it was obvious Ghost Nation was still following the same loop, at least before Ake visited the Mesa.  They killed the same group of white bots and they came back to native village to trade the boar for a basket of vegetables

Edited June 14, 2018 by DarkRaichu

[Isazouzi]

This was mesmerizing and poetic. It was all worth it, just for this episode. Hearing other languages is always a plus for me, and this one was so soothing. I think it was also the first time I acutally cried watching Westworld. I can already tell this episode will haunt me. So many beautiful metaphors...

The mention of "people down below" reminded me of the Morlocks in The Time Machine...

[margol29]

I could listen to ZM talk Lakota to me all day long. It was truly beautiful!!

[Haleth]

I finally got to see this. I love that Ake was speaking in is own language to Maeve and reassuring her daughter in the language she understood. I bawled when Maeve told him to take her heart with him.  And I bawled when Ake left his love and returned the braid to the young man's mother. 

Dolores is the deathbringer.  It looks like we're in for a showdown between Doloros and her army and Maeve and hers. 

I'm really curious about what is beyond the door. 

[Abernathy]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet...editing error or on purpose????

 

WESTWORLD FANS CAN’T TELL IF THIS IS A BLOOPER OR A GENIUS CLUE

 

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a21515902/westworld-blooper-easter-egg/

[lightninggirl]

On 6/11/2018 at 12:40 AM, WaltersHair said:

I really connected with Ake's story, but didn't with Shogun people.

If we never have to go back to Shogun world, life will be good. I absolutely love subtitles and subtitled films, but pair them with a story that has *maybe* two highlights and I'm smashing the FF button (which fortunately just makes the subtitles speed by faster). Through this entire episode, I kept thinking "please let us stay here with Ake and the Ghost People and don't ever make us return to flipping Shogunland."

[Nashville]

On 6/17/2018 at 5:51 AM, Abernathy said:

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet...editing error or on purpose????

 

WESTWORLD FANS CAN’T TELL IF THIS IS A BLOOPER OR A GENIUS CLUE

 

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a21515902/westworld-blooper-easter-egg/

Oooooo, now I’m all goosebumpy.  :D

[jeansheridan]

How the heck do people even notice these things. I vote for filming error, honestly. It happens, especially on a television shoot.

[crookedjackson44]

Rewatching this tonight in advance of Season 2's closing, I am reminded again of how beautiful this episode was.  This is television at its finest!

[AudienceofOne]

On 11/06/2018 at 12:34 PM, DakotaLavender said:

I think the main problem with this season is the editing. Maybe it would be so much better if the timelines were presented in a logical linear way. 

The non-linear storytelling really added to the resonance of the first season. Now it just seems like it's there because it's Westworld so it should be. It was like the reveal that the first scene was Dolores controlling Bernard and then the reveal that it was in the far past. Is that really such a huge reveal that we needed to shroud it in layers of chronological takeouts?

On 11/06/2018 at 12:40 PM, thuganomics85 said:

A few minor issues: it seems insane that it took the park that long to realize that the Akecheta "host" never died to the point that he was still an old model by a good bit.  Is no one actually tracking the hosts and seeing that he manages to never die? 

See, I loved this. It was my favourite thing about this episode because it was pure racism. They programmed their American Indian hosts to be nothing more than chaotic vectors in the the coloniser's narrative and then were so indifferent to them that one wandered around displaying aberrant behaviour for years and they didn't even notice. 

On 11/06/2018 at 12:56 PM, ShadowHunter said:

I enjoyed Lee when he was at Maeve's side crying telling her he was sorry. He has had some growth since last season. It would be nice to see more of it.

I have no idea when this growth happened. I found it random. Welcome, but not exactly earned.

On 11/06/2018 at 1:32 PM, AEMom said:

The episode was very well done and acted, but these tangential episodes (Shogun world is another example) just seem to be dragging out the main plot of the show.

 

They have very little plot. That's part of the problem. I mean, if this was a show made in Korea then they'd have 16 or 20 episodes to tell their story and then they'd be done. As it is, they need to drag this out for as long as people will watch it - at least five seasons if it doesn't get cancelled. That's why people are struggling with Dolores because if they tell us what Dolores is doing and why then they won't have anything for season 3. So the few small plot points for this season have to dragged out over 10 episodes. I was bored with Shogun world but I found this beautiful. Tonally weird in the context of the show so far. But beautiful.

On 11/06/2018 at 1:58 PM, LittleIggy said:

I loved the dialogue being mostly in Lakota (as the Samurai episode was mostly in Japanese). I watch a lot of foreign movies and tv shows (mostly Mandarin and Korean) and love hearing the languages spoken. I don’t understand why people get bothered by subtitles.

People whinging about subtitles is a huge pet peeve of mine. Just ignoring that it doesn't actually take that much cognitive work to read them, by refusing to watch subtitled shows they're missing out on a good 80% of the world's greatest cultural product. I mean, nobody needs to know a Thai lakorn exists but if you didn't get to watch My Ahjussi this year then you don't even know what your life is lacking. 

[Scout Finch]

On 7/14/2018 at 7:26 PM, AudienceofOne said:

I mean, nobody needs to know a Thai lakorn exists but if you didn't get to watch My Ahjussi this year then you don't even know what your life is lacking. 

Great...more shows I don't have to time to watch! I must have at least 75 hours of unwatched shows on my TiVo but still detoured off to watch Fargo om Amazon Prime because I adore Allison Tolman. THAT had to be put on hold over the weekend due to the free HBO preview on Comcast which ends tonight, so I'd better get back to watching the last two Westworld Season 2 episodes! 

[PotterOtherP]

On 6/12/2018 at 9:49 AM, Dobian said:

Dances with Robots

I was watching Dances With Wolves recently and when Graham Greene is trying to get Mary McDonnell to remember her English so she can translate, he says "Kiksuya yo!" which instantly reminded me of this, the best episode of Westworld.