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S03.E02: In The Red


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J struggles to keep the family business afloat after Smurf enlists him to make sure all the bills get paid. Deran makes his own moves independent of the family. Pope learns the ins and outs of parenting as he cares for Lena, and Craig makes enemies in Mexico.

 

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(edited)

I find myself smiling during every Deran/Adrian conversation.  I love them together.

Not sure if I like Mia any more than Nicky - they both annoy me.  

Edited by patty1h
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Most important thing: Thank God Jake Weary got rid of that damn wig!

I really feel for J. He was just thrust into all this, and now he's having to handle all Smurf's accounts by himself. And Nikki is NOT helping just buying crap all willy-nilly. They need to stop giving away stuff in the promos. I had forgotten all about his former neighbor, but when they showed her I realized that would be where J would be getting his much needed cash from.  Although Mia's motives are questionable as hell, she does have a point about the truck. Sell it and get something smaller. 

Poor Lena. That little actress must have everyone on set wrapped around her little fingers. She is too cute! "Parenting is expensive." Okay Papa Pope.

The less said about Craigs little sojourn past the border the better. It's like he doesn't realize he's not a "Pope" down there, he's just some guy.  Although that kid was a little shit, you never know who's connected to who.

Deran, jesus. What kind of half-ass crew are you hanging out with? Him giving Adrian the 50K was sweet though. As was Adrian coming to check on him.

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Does J care about anyone?  He cheated on Nicky for the second time with no remorse.  Hell, just a few minutes earlier, he was staring Mia down in the living room.
It's too bad he was forced to dip into his stash.  He really just needs to take his diploma and leave that family.

I really want to know what Nicky plans on bringing to the table.  She just casually said "our money" to J, but I don't think she has a job.  She just seems to party, do drugs, and sleep.

I kind of feel bad for Craig.  He was just living the life, partying with his girlfriend in Mexico.  I don't quite understand his neighbors though.  They mentioned businesses closing and it being a family neighborhood, but they just happened to have a kilo?

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Was it me or did this episode seem really disjointed?  Maybe I need to pay attention better but it seemed like a bunch of unrelated scenes just thrown together.

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The theme: stupidity has no boundaries.

* Craig, man you're a dumbo. Good luck!

* Lmao! J is effed. A boatload of work.. And he gets shitted on by the family. Is it worth saving this FAM?

* Deran is an idiot, Pope is right...  "TRUST" is huge when pulling heists and he has dimwits for partners.

* Mia definitely is playing J. I can tell or maybe she's using him for bigger bait. Either way, shes an upgrade to nikki. Haha!

All in all, it was okay. They really don't need Leary, a ton of possible plots that might screw over the Cody's.

2 hours ago, peridot said:

Does J care about anyone?  He cheated on Nicky for the second time with no remorse.  Hell, just a few minutes earlier, he was staring Mia down in the living room.
It's too bad he was forced to dip into his stash.  He really just needs to take his diploma and leave that family.

 

Yup. J could just walk away and turn on the Cody's, blood free. He has all the evidence and can play victim. Smurf treats him like crap BC she's desperate and you just know J wants out.

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7 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

Was it me or did this episode seem really disjointed?  Maybe I need to pay attention better but it seemed like a bunch of unrelated scenes just thrown together.

It did just kind of bounce all over the place. Seems like it was one of those "table setter" episodes where they needed to move people around -- eg get Craig back from Mexico, the poor dumbass -- and set up some situations so they can manipulate us for the next 11, or however many, episodes :)

I wonder when Leary will appear. They keep saying he's on and then he's not. lol

Was Craig being literal? Did he really make it back with just the shirt on his back? That would sound about right for him.

J and Pope have one thing in common, that thousand-yard vacant stare. Though Pope's TYVS is much scarier. J's is more like "sh**, I can't remember my next line."

Mia is smarter than Nicky and seems to have that grifter's sense that there is more money to be made from this mark.

Wonder if Ellen Barkin will be in jail all season. I've never seen the movie so I have no idea what some viewers might already know who have.

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9 hours ago, peridot said:

 

I kind of feel bad for Craig.  He was just living the life, partying with his girlfriend in Mexico.  I don't quite understand his neighbors though.  They mentioned businesses closing and it being a family neighborhood, but they just happened to have a kilo?

I think they were just signalling that this was their territory and they could frame him as a narco trafficker at any time. With Craig saying the wrong thing about the little brother they just decided to beat Craig down and take it all right then and there

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(edited)

Did I read the Craig beatdown scene right?   I thought that they were mad at Craig being a dick to that kid, so they came with the bullshit story about neighbors and noise.  Then they dropped that pack of coke down with the implied message "we want you out, but if you plan to stay, we're gonna set you up to look like a coke dealer.  You're gonna be getting flak from Mexican authorities and maybe the US gov will catch wind of this".  Craig is dumb but smart enough to know that the situation will only go downhill.  

Or was it that they were telling Craig that now he's gonna be selling that coke for them and Craig had no intention of being a drug mule for these guys, so he booked it out of Mexico?   Or did I miss the signs completely?

Edited by patty1h
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(edited)

This episode did jump around from character to character, but I think this is necessary owing to the fact that the two who are now the principal characters basically do not talk to each other, and, in order to find out what either one is thinking, other characters need to be imported.    Given Pope's personality and the fact that J has no one in the family he can really trust, the writers have to bring in other people to provide us with dialog to move events forward.  Also, action is great, both Pope and J do a great job of conveying emotion through facial expressions, body stance, etc.,but I do like dialogue!

I like the fact that we are getting a little more development of Deran's character.  He has wanted to get free of the family for a long time.  Interesting  that his first job outside the family both brings out his ability to be threatening and his poor judgment in choice of a crew.  It appears his bar is doing a booming business; it offers him a means of laundering stolen money, and he really does not need the family, especially since he seems to have little interest in the ownership of the buildings, and unlike Pope and J saw everything as Smurf's rather than the family's. But now that Craig is back, he will be sucked back whether he likes it or not.

I wonder how Lucy would have been able to get a copy of the police report.  I think she and Marco must have killed Baz...if what she says about Javi's crew is true.  The only other possibility to my mind is Trujillo...it does seem Smurf's protection is awfully pricey.  Maybe J did it...but would he have done it without knowing where Baz hid everything?  What nerve, though, for Lucy to keep showing up.  Maybe she will need Pope's help to fence all those things in the suitcases, and she would need to focus suspicion on someone else if she is going to admit having the stuff.  But if she has connections enough to get an American police report, I expect she knows fences.

I would assume Pope  could pull money out of the bank to pay for Lena's private school...but maybe he won't want to.  It seemed he had put everything in Lena's account last season, so I wonder what he is using for money to live on.  Maybe J has contrived to pay his "building manager" salary for a couple of months.  Which also explains his concern to hold onto the buildings.

So now the stage is set for the boys to get back together to pull some jobs.  Maybe the whole issue of who killed Baz and what happened to the suitcases is about to join the issue of who is J's father in the background of unknowns of the show. Oh, and we see that the DA has little interest in investigating Javi's murder....they are working on a case against the whole family.  

I am confused about Craig...he says he was cleaned out.  So after the beat down, did they ransack the house and rob him? Or what?

Edited by lazylou
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4 hours ago, JFParnell said:

It did just kind of bounce all over the place. Seems like it was one of those "table setter" episodes where they needed to move people around -- eg get Craig back from Mexico, the poor dumbass -- and set up some situations so they can manipulate us for the next 11, or however many, episodes :)

 

This is where I am on it. It felt more like a set up for where everyone is post-Baz but before they do their next family job. Setting up the players, their mindsets, and the benefits/costs as for each that could happen during the season. 

I was happy to see Adrian again. He and Deran have come a long way from when we first saw them together and their scenes made me smile. Deran has really come a long way from S1 in terms of dealing with his sexuality and feelings. I like where they are now and that they're not rushing to title their friendship/relationship. It's obvious there's love between them but they need to go at their own pace. I appreciated Deran wanting Adrian to not give up on his dreams so he wouldn't have regrets. Good insight in to Deran too.  I look forward to seeing more of them together in S3. 

Pope and Lena would be even cuter if I didn't keep recalling that he killed her mother. Shawn Hatosy sells his scenes well but that's just not something I can get past in Pope scenes with Lena. Still, aside from Smurf, he seems to be the only one to put forth any effort in being there for Lena.

J cheating on Nicki. I should care on principle and I kind of do for that sole reason, but Nicki is such a waste of space to me that anything that hastens her [hopeful] exit I will accept gladly. Mia is a grifter and shouldn't be trusted at this time but I find her much more interesting as a character already than I do Nicki after 2 seasons.

J is still a tough nut to crack. On some level, his quiet calculating ways remind me of Baz. (I know Smurf said what she did to J about Baz being his father to throw J off his game but I wouldn't be surprised at all that it is the truth cause J in some moments since S1 has reminded me of Baz, mostly in the way he can go cold on someone so quickly). 

Craig is... Craig.

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2 hours ago, lazylou said:

I think she and Marco must have killed Baz...if what she says about Javi's crew is true.  The only other possibility to my mind is Trujillo...it does seem Smurf's protection is awfully pricey.  Maybe J did it...but would he have done it without knowing where Baz hid everything?  What nerve, though, for Lucy to keep showing up.  Maybe she will need Pope's help to fence all those things in the suitcases, and she would need to focus suspicion on someone else if she is going to admit having the stuff.  But if she has connections enough to get an American police report, I expect she knows fences.

 

Marco!! That's who I think did it with Lucy's full knowledge.  Probably doesn't matter now but I called him Javi in the opener thread and it didn't sound right.  I think Lucy is ruthless enough to set Baz up.

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(edited)

For a minute there at the beginning I thought I was watching one of those fast and furious movies.

When does Deran's dad (Dennis Leary) show up?

Poor Lena. Pope is trying but he's kind of out of his depth, I think.

Looks like the Codys are all around backed up against a wall. Power rangers unite!

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I think she and Marco must have killed Baz.

Me too and I'm wondering why she thinks hiding in Pope's plain sight is safe.

Edited by Joimiaroxeu
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So last week was kind of like the epilogue for last season, and this was the actual place setting episode for this season. I liked seeing everyone again, and seeing more of what everyone has been up to. 

J has such a quiet nature, its so hard to get a read on him. Thats not a bad thing, he just plays everything so close to the chest, its hard to figure out what he is actually thinking. I do think he wants to bail the family out of their financial problems, and that his uncles should trust him, but its hard to tell where his actual loyalties lie. I dont think he would turn them over to the cops (if he wanted to do that, he would have done it several robberies ago) but he might still break out on his own. 

Love Derans new haircut! He and Adrian are really cute, they've come a long way from when they had quickies on bathroom stalls followed by Deran making a break for it. Now he stays over for breakfast and everything! It was also nice of him to sponsor Adrian so that he can pursue his dreams, and it was a nice insight into Deran as well. He still regrets his surfing career going downhill, and thats probably something of why his bar is so important to him now. Business seems good (they even have house made sauces!) so maybe he can stop running with his cut rate crew and just stick with the bar? Unlikely, but possible. 

Poor dumb Craig. He was just minding his own business, chilling in Mexico, and now he got kicked back home. He and his girlfriend have great chemistry though. 

I already like Mia more than Nikki, even if I do have a bit of a soft spot for Nikki, mainly because she actually does stuff other than party, spend Js money, and sleep. 

Lena is just the cutest kid ever, and I feel so bad for her. How sad are things when the only real parental figure she has around her is Pope, the guy who killed her mother!

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I have to say after two episodes the season is off to a rather slow start, even with a two-month time jump. But I do get that there's a lot of table-setting to be done.

I thought it was a huge mistake for J to take Mia to that former neighbor's apartment then hand over the cash. Now she knows where he kept it and there's nothing to prevent her from breaking in later and ransacking the place. I'm not sure how he could have avoided that since she insisted on sticking to him like glue until he paid her the money he owed but that seemed like a huge miscalculation on his part. 

Good grief Deran is handsome with his hair cut short.

I'm not sure what went on with Craig either, but I assume the whole point of him trying to make it on his own was to show he would fail and have to come running back to his family. But Renn is no great shakes either if she can't help keep him out of trouble.

I want someone to find out Lucy and Marco stole Baz's stash. I'm honestly not sure whether they killed him but if Pope finds out they have all the stuff he's going to assume they did and then they'll be goners. 

Lena remains the saddest child in the world. Now she's getting bullied as if she hasn't been through enough. I have a feeling that kid's going to grow up to be a psychopath. How long before she's running jobs herself?

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27 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I thought it was a huge mistake for J to take Mia to that former neighbor's apartment then hand over the cash. Now she knows where he kept it and there's nothing to prevent her from breaking in later and ransacking the place. I'm not sure how he could have avoided that since she insisted on sticking to him like glue until he paid her the money he owed but that seemed like a huge miscalculation on his part. 

I am guessing he took all the money from the apartment. There wasn't that much there and Mia was handed I think 4 strapped bundles. Whatever is left after the other payout he I think he will hide in a new place. Growing up with a drug addict mother, J is likely pretty good on knowing when and where to stash a rainy day fund. 

Also, should be interesting when / if Nicki & Mia ever meet. 

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Poor Lena.   Foster care might honestly be the best option for her. I’m surprised that CPS isn’t involved at least based on the fact that both her bio parents are deceased, maternal grandparents deceased, and paternal grandmother incarcerated.  

Deran’s haircut makes him look like Pacey (Dawson’s Creek) to me!   I like it tho!

Doesn’t Lucy have a son she left behind in Mexico?   

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4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Good grief Deran is handsome with his hair cut short.

 

So handsome! I always thought Deran was hot, but he looks great with short hair. Adrian is a very lucky man. And, it lets him and Craig finally look really different! I also kind of laughed when Deran called Craig a "kid" when he was talking to Adrian. Its pretty easy, even for the characters, to forget that Craig is actually older than Deran.

Edited by tennisgurl
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I am guessing he took all the money from the apartment. There wasn't that much there and Mia was handed I think 4 strapped bundles. 

But Mia doesn't know that. J put that poor woman in danger. 

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Deran’s haircut makes him look like Pacey (Dawson’s Creek) to me! 

Crap. Now I can't unsee it!

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The Pope & Lena scenes were so sweet - he's been more of a father to her than Baz ever was.   I do understand the creepy factor since he killed Cath - but I don't blame him for that - he was basically conned into it by Smurf - she manipulated him into doing it & he's been tortured by it ever since.

Not sure what I think about Mia - not sure she's any better than Nicky

Deran definitely looks better with the short hair & he & Adrian are adorable.

The family dinner at the end was good - some of my favorite scenes are when the Cody boys are all together - I did kind of love Lena asking J if she could watch tv then looking at Pope to make sure it's okay she left the table.

I do wonder how long it will be before the boys realize that Lucy & Marco stole the money - they have to stumble on it at some point - I just can't imagine them not finding out (especially if Lucy continues to hang around - none of the boys really like her)

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Smurf may think that Pope killed Baz, as she had planned, but must be wondering where the stash is.  Maybe she will realize it has to be Lucy who knew where it was and took it.

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18 hours ago, iMonrey said:

But Mia doesn't know that. J put that poor woman in danger. 

Crap. Now I can't unsee it!

I was on edge the entire time they were in that woman’s apartment from the moment they pulled up.  I just don’t think it will end well for her now that Mia knows the money was hidden there and the leverage they could use if needed over J (his relationship to that woman as a somewhat mother figure).

Sorry about the Pacey thing ?.  I honestly thought when I saw the previews for this episode they had cast Joshua Jackson in a role.  I had to imdb it!

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The Pope & Lena scenes were so sweet - he's been more of a father to her than Baz ever was.   I do understand the creepy factor since he killed Cath - but I don't blame him for that - he was basically conned into it by Smurf - she manipulated him into doing it & he's been tortured by it ever since.

It's a testament to Shawn Hatosy and the depth and sympathy he manages to bring to this character. How on earth are we feeling sorry for someone who not only killed Lena's mother but had sex with her first? He's not totally blameless here even if Smurf manipulated him. 

That detective trying to get Smurf to take a deal was right. Without her and Baz to keep him stable, Pope is going to unravel fast.

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I am probably completely wrong, but I think J killed Baz and that Smurf manipulated him into doing just like she manipulated Pope to kill Cath. 

 

AND when she told J, “of course Baz was your father”, it was a mind game. She was proving to J how much power she has, like, “see, I can even get you to kill your OWN father.”

In the replay of the murder, I thought the killer looked slim/small, maybe even female? Ok so maybe it wasn’t J. Lol

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(edited)

Of course J may have killed Baz.  I don't want it to be J, but who knows?  

Earlier on this site, someone pointed out that Smurf tried to set up Pope to kill Baz.  (Guess she was confident that Pope was more likely to shoot Baz than vice versa.)  Who knows?  maybe she also tried to manipulate J ... in case, I guess, Baz survived the shootout she had planned between him and Pope.  Maybe she hired yet another shooter...who knows. Smurf may even think Pope killed Baz, as she had planned, if Marco, the cop, Vince, ? is the actual killer.

Supposedly Smurf hired someone to follow Baz to learn where he had hidden her things.  We did not see this scene,  but somehow Smurf had to find out where Baz had hidden the stuff since she sent Trujillo there.  She trusted Trujillo more to recover her stuff than she did J?  

Smurf must suspect Lucy, even though Smurf has not said anything.  I think the writers may want to put all this in the past and move forward...more jobs to pull, more suspicion between the brothers, ...things fall apart.  The next episode is entitled, "the center holds"  ... But the line in the poem is "the center cannot hold."

  I wonder if any of these mysteries will ever be solved

Edited by lazylou
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On 6/6/2018 at 3:50 PM, geauxaway said:

Poor Lena.   Foster care might honestly be the best option for her. I’m surprised that CPS isn’t involved at least based on the fact that both her bio parents are deceased, maternal grandparents deceased, and paternal grandmother incarcerated.  

I struggle with my feelings on Pope.  He's done some hair raisingly terrible things including, yes, offing poor Catherine.  He has some serious conflicting feelings about Smurf.  His dead-eye stare is off the charts and it scares the isht out of me just to look at him.  But...there's something very pure and sweet (laugh if you will!) about his relationship with Lena.  (though it is still creepy that he killed her mom)

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I am probably completely wrong, but I think J killed Baz and that Smurf manipulated him into doing just like she manipulated Pope to kill Cath. 

AND when she told J, “of course Baz was your father”, it was a mind game. She was proving to J how much power she has, like, “see, I can even get you to kill your OWN father.”

I don't know, these two sentences seem to contradict one another. If Smurf manipulated J into shooting Baz, I don't think she would then turn around and try to make him believe Baz was his father. She'd be revealing her own hand at a time when she desperately needs J working on her side while she's stuck in prison. That's exactly the kind of thing that would turn J against her and she's smart enough to know that.

I do think we're supposed to suspect J shot Baz but I also think it's a red herring. Unless they plan on writing J off the show or ending the series after this season, I can't see J remaining a sympathetic character once he's committed murder. 

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5 hours ago, Pink-n-Green said:

I struggle with my feelings on Pope.  He's done some hair raisingly terrible things including, yes, offing poor Catherine.  He has some serious conflicting feelings about Smurf.  His dead-eye stare is off the charts and it scares the isht out of me just to look at him.  But...there's something very pure and sweet (laugh if you will!) about his relationship with Lena.  (though it is still creepy that he killed her mom)

I think this is due to Shawn Hatosy being such a good actor, and also that, now that Smurf is in jail, he is the only one of the family who actually cares about Lena and is trying to be a real guardian to her. The others would ship her off to foster care in a heartbeat.

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29 minutes ago, KaleyFirefly said:

I think this is due to Shawn Hatosy being such a good actor, and also that, now that Smurf is in jail, he is the only one of the family who actually cares about Lena and is trying to be a real guardian to her. The others would ship her off to foster care in a heartbeat.

He really is an excellent actor, isn't he?  I understand he was really good in the cop show "Southland" and I would love to see that series but I'm not aware of it streaming anywhere so I'll have to content myself with watching him play a hoodlum with a heart of gold (kinda).

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10 hours ago, mochamajesty said:

Southland is streaming on Hulu.

Thank you, mochamajesty!  I found the whole series on DVD on Amazon for $95 which was way too steep for my budget but I think I'll probably be able to manage a Hulu subscription.  I can't wait; thanks again!

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5 hours ago, Pink-n-Green said:

Thank you, mochamajesty!  I found the whole series on DVD on Amazon for $95 which was way too steep for my budget but I think I'll probably be able to manage a Hulu subscription.  I can't wait; thanks again!

Southland reminds me of Hunter and The Wire. One of those shows I wish they hadn't made the last season.

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I'm a little late to the comments about this episode.  Just starting to watch the backlog tonight.

But, some summary points:

1.  I agree that this episode was a bit disjointed but can give it some slack for table-setting.

2.  Deran is HOT with short hair.  And, his scenes with Adrian are both sexy and sweet.  Moar, please.

3.  Pope continues to be a hard read:  scary stares, tender to Lena, yet killed her mom.  Opening shower scene with great backside shot.  Sneaks into J's room, clamps a hand on his mouth, then tells the threat/plan for finding Baz's killer.  Talk about an enigma wrapped up in a riddle hidden in a mystery.  I don't know whether to get to know him OR to run quietly and quickly away.

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12 minutes ago, MajorMarket said:

I'm a little late to the comments about this episode.  Just starting to watch the backlog tonight.

But, some summary points:

1.  I agree that this episode was a bit disjointed but can give it some slack for table-setting.

2.  Deran is HOT with short hair.  And, his scenes with Adrian are both sexy and sweet.  Moar, please.

3.  Pope continues to be a hard read:  scary stares, tender to Lena, yet killed her mom.  Opening shower scene with great backside shot.  Sneaks into J's room, clamps a hand on his mouth, then tells the threat/plan for finding Baz's killer.  Talk about an enigma wrapped up in a riddle hidden in a mystery.  I don't know whether to get to know him OR to run quietly and quickly away.

I know back away slowly showing no threat to the family  and hope he never noticed you 

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I'm just catching up with this. Got into it last Summer, and then my DVR didn't pick it up this year (I also haven't paid that much attention to cable for a few months). 

I also like Pope and the little girl, but can't get past the fact that he killed her mum. 

I don't feel bad for Nicki, because she was sleeping with Craig for a while. She went back to Jay later on. 

 

Also, they're all essentially freeloaders. Their work is theft, and occasionally murder. I find Nicki no more annoying than the rest of them. 

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