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Things We Hate About The Handmaid's Tale

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22 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Episode 10 did nothing for me. 

 

And I found myself rolling my eyes through a lot of it.

 

Same!

The melodrama was cringy.

I remember that episode of Married With Children... LOL

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What I hate is that every minute of the show is disturbing, bleak, sad, stressful and depressing without a second of relief. Everyone is miserable every second of the day and night.  Well, okay, maybe I'm getting warped but I did find it worth a snicker when Nick saw his Child Bride kissing... some guy... and she races up and prostates herself in front him, tearfully screaming and begging forgiveness and he's all, like, "Meh. Don't care." And when she sat in the chair and wailed, he puts his hand to his head as though thinking, "Shit. I have to get stuck with this hysterical, hormonal pubescent. Major drag."

What I also hate is that, in this totalitarian society where everyone is watched and no one may speak without being spoken to, Nick can just walk into the Waterford house - where every footstep is like thunder -  any time he likes, go up to June's room and spend some time with her.

Hated the last "unproductive" rape. HATED. Disgusting.

I'm sick of seeing June crying and crying and crying. I'm sure I'd cry too in that situation, but do we always have to watch the entire duration of her crying spells? As for her looks - she's young, has a nice figure and I think her face and eyes are quite arresting. It's nice that some stick-thin supermodel with big fake boobs wasn't chosen for this role. June is so much easier to identify with.

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On 6/19/2018 at 2:33 PM, LordOfLotion said:

Yeah I'd like them to speak up, too.

YES! I hate that too. I actually have to turn on my CC for this show.

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21 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

What I hate is that every minute of the show is disturbing, bleak, sad, stressful and depressing without a second of relief. Everyone is miserable every second of the day and night.  Well, okay, maybe I'm getting warped but I did find it worth a snicker when Nick saw his Child Bride kissing... some guy... and she races up and prostates herself in front him, tearfully screaming and begging forgiveness and he's all, like, "Meh. Don't care." And when she sat in the chair and wailed, he puts his hand to his head as though thinking, "Shit. I have to get stuck with this hysterical, hormonal pubescent. Major drag."

What I also hate is that, in this totalitarian society where everyone is watched and no one may speak without being spoken to, Nick can just walk into the Waterford house - where every footstep is like thunder -  any time he likes, go up to June's room and spend some time with her.

Hated the last "unproductive" rape. HATED. Disgusting.

I'm sick of seeing June crying and crying and crying. I'm sure I'd cry too in that situation, but do we always have to watch the entire duration of her crying spells? As for her looks - she's young, has a nice figure and I think her face and eyes are quite arresting. It's nice that some stick-thin supermodel with big fake boobs wasn't chosen for this role. June is so much easier to identify with.

All the depressing stuff reminds me of The Walking Dead and how I eventually gave up on it. Even when things seemed to be going well, nobody ever seemed happy. And I never understood why they didn't just raid a Target or something and decorate the prison cells. :-)

There DOES seem to be a lot of discrepancies in rules and how people act in THT. It's like the show writers conveniently forget previous things so that they can make the scene unfold as they wish. 

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I hate that she's called OFFred instead of OfFRED, which is how her name should be pronounced.  Maybe it's intentional (not only are Waterfords uncomfortable with a pronunciation that undoubtedly makes her Fred's property, but also she's a rebellious handmaid, so she's "off red," get it??). 

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On 6/24/2018 at 9:22 PM, mamadrama said:

This was the last episode that could be sent in for Elisabeth Moss' Emmy nomination and I felt like they literally tried to throw in as much drama as possible "for your Emmy consideration"

All that you said and in particular this.

I know the show is based on a book that is about this one handmaid but since this season is not what is in the book anymore, they could have shown us the drama of other handmaids. Janine is a rebel and yet she survives. What is going on with Emily? How about more Moira? I would imagine she would be a little more impulsive in her desire for revenge, doing more things (and we seeing those things instead of speculating what is going on inside her head, maybe never seeing it anyway because the writers would just leave her in Canada moping). Even if there is much speculation about what will happen to Emily, it feels like this whole season was aimed at Awards-For-Elisabeth-Moss.

 

I am also tired of the snow and rain and grey. 

 

In the book, the hats have wings so that the handmaids avoid eye contact, that they are not seen as real people. Now we see them waling around, chatting. The hats ARE a big part of the whole cult and the products/writers/directors are ignoring that.

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3 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I am also tired of the snow and rain and grey.

Me too! I know the perpetually gloomy weather is a symbol of the gloomy lives being led but in the last ep I wondered, "Is it always winter there? Are there never flowers, birds singing or butterflies fluttering around? Is there never a single thing that might make someone smile for a second?" Also - and maybe this is picky - the howling blizzard-wind sounds when the snow is gently falling straight down? Someone needs to look into that.

 

10 hours ago, mamadrama said:

All the depressing stuff reminds me of The Walking Dead and how I eventually gave up on it. Even when things seemed to be going well, nobody ever seemed happy.

For the last season, everything was filmed in total darkness. Even Jeffrey Dean Morgan mentioned it.  Shots and screams ring out, but you could only guess who was involved.

This show is dark too. Does no one ever turn on a damned light? Are even electric lights too festive? "Oh, we better not have them switch lights on. Someone might get the idea that this scene is not sufficiently depressing." Only the hospital has super-bright, white light, but it's not cheerful. It's bleak as an Antarctic vista.

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On 6/24/2018 at 7:48 PM, GreekGeek said:

I thought the same thing in Mad Men, when for a time it seemed as though every straight man in New York City and several lesbians were hitting on her character Peggy. I can buy it more readily here, though. Fred and Nick are sexually frustrated, so they can probably convince themselves that June is a real beauty. A lot has been written about the restrictions on the women, rightly, but one detail in the book stood out on how the guys are restricted too: They can't put their hands in their pockets, lest they be tempted to masturbate. So any woman who is halfway attractive and isn't in a position to say no will be like catnip to them. I never quite understood why Luke left his wife over June, though.

Probably because looks are not what ultimately matters in a relationship.

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36 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Probably because looks are not what ultimately matters in a relationship.

Right. People (unless they're 17) don't usually leave a spouse merely because someone else looks better. They do it because something they desperately need is missing in the relationship and people have a right to try and find happiness.

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11 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

people have a right to try and find happiness.

But I would hope they would try to work it out with the person they committed to first. The whole thing came as a shock to Luke's wife so he obviously didn't even try to work it out with her. He just had an affair with June instead to exorcise his right to find happiness.

Edited by llewis823
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My ultimate problem with Nick is that even though the show presents him as a hero (he falls in love with June, tries to protect her, tries to help her escape, etc.) he is ultimately complicit in Gilead just as much as some of the others are, yet the show never addresses this. He was there for some of those early meetings. Pryce trusted him and probably told him a lot about the things that were going on and the things that might go on. He saw at least one Handmaid kill herself at the Waterfucks' house, maybe even two. Yet he's only just now acting like things might be bad-and even then he acts like he's just learning shit and is kind of naive. (The whole "you should take Offred to the doctor" kind of thing.) 

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1 hour ago, mamadrama said:

My ultimate problem with Nick is that even though the show presents him as a hero (he falls in love with June, tries to protect her, tries to help her escape, etc.) he is ultimately complicit in Gilead just as much as some of the others are, yet the show never addresses this. He was there for some of those early meetings. Pryce trusted him and probably told him a lot about the things that were going on and the things that might go on. He saw at least one Handmaid kill herself at the Waterfucks' house, maybe even two. Yet he's only just now acting like things might be bad-and even then he acts like he's just learning shit and is kind of naive. (The whole "you should take Offred to the doctor" kind of thing.) 

I don't see Nick as complicit at all. 

He's fighting Gilead from the inside, which is extremely dangerous.

Honestly, this role should be a gold mine for any actor, he's a double agent, behind enemy lines.  He could escape easily, but he stays to fight.  The actor seems kind and sincere in real life, but he's just not up to such a layered and important role, or the writing is just that bad for him. 

Much like Holly Taylor in The Americans?  I think it's both.  Stone faced doesn't cut it when the caliber of the other actors on screen is so intensely good. 

In another actor's hands, or different writers' hands, this role would be the most interesting of any character on screen.

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The problem with Nick is that he just doesn't get any screen time. We have no idea what he may or may not be doing in Mayday at this point now that their operations have scaled back and his friend Commander Pryce got 86ed, and we have no idea what he does as an Eye. They won't show us anything. The way the writers do stuff here, he could go on in limbo like this for the rest of the show, or they could have him do stuff in these bottle type episodes that have no lasting effect on anything. Most of the time he just sits quietly and doesn't care much about anything. I wish they would show some of what he does outside of the Waterford house, even if it's just to go smoke a joint someplace and complain.

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I hate that there’s only two episodes left abd this show has barely moved or developed further at this point. 

Personally for me season two has been filled with very lazy, very uninspired writing and direction.

Even some of the performers I have felt did not really give 100% of an effort as they did in season one, and I think that was mainly due to the material or lack thereof. 

The show was handed the baton with season one, all they had to do was run with it on to the finish line with season two, instead the baton got dropped badly. 

One thwarted escape, one cut out tongue, one suicide bombing, one trip to Canada, one pregnancy rape, one lonesome birth in an empty house later, and we have...shit all, really. 

No expansion on Rita, we barely saw her, Nick is left standing around looking like he just wants a grilled cheese sandwich and a cold beer most of the time, June is just in a constant state of torture, Fred and Serena are in a constant state of being rapist fuckers, Lydia is doing whatever when she’s not emotionally and physically abusing “her girls” which is apparently not much else, we don’t really get to see any of the inner workings of the regime, we have yet to see any military members, we got a tiny snippet of life for the Econo people, and Luke and Moira might as well live in a box somewhere for how much they have mattered as Gileaed escapees. 

The pacing is just way too lackluster for me. 

 I don’t mind waiting for something to happen but this show keeps using that anticipation like a crutch, I feel, and I am tired of it. 

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1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

I don't see Nick as complicit at all. 

He's fighting Gilead from the inside, which is extremely dangerous.

Honestly, this role should be a gold mine for any actor, he's a double agent, behind enemy lines.  He could escape easily, but he stays to fight.  The actor seems kind and sincere in real life, but he's just not up to such a layered and important role, or the writing is just that bad for him. 

Much like Holly Taylor in The Americans?  I think it's both.  Stone faced doesn't cut it when the caliber of the other actors on screen is so intensely good. 

In another actor's hands, or different writers' hands, this role would be the most interesting of any character on screen.

To me, the fact that he most likely knew some of the shit that was going to go down and yet he hung around and chose to stay makes him guilty by association IMO. I find his actions worse than the regular econopeople who stayed because Nick, working with the commanders, was privy to things that the rest of the "normal" people weren't. The only way I'd change my mind is IF we learn that Nick has been working with the resistance from the beginning and chose to stay because he wanted to fight it from the inside. Even then, I need to see some hard evidence of things that he's done to help the resistance. I don't dislike Nick as a character (I find him boring but I don't hate him) but I really don't see him doing much. HOW is he fighting? Other than helping June to escape (which was really a personal thing) and delivering the letters to Canada, I've seen little to nothing on his part. As Answers said above, he mostly looks like he's just standing around, waiting for a grilled cheese. Some of that is the actor's fault, some of it isn't. 

YMMV, this is just something that I don't like about the character. 

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I  think this show was so relevant in the first season, which was a shock to the writers.  As they said, like most people, they expected a woman president during filming, so I don't think back then they intended this to have much political relevance, beyond women's rights of course.

Without getting into specific politics (at all) it's hard to remove politics, current and past, from discussion of this extremely political novel and show, especially during season two.

The writers this season, both accidentally (child forcibly taken from their mothers and fathers) and deliberately (RESIST!  Nazis!) is paralleling our present USA realities. 

While kind of an odd coincidence during the first season (mostly, other than reproductive rights, etc.) THIS season?  It's so fucking close to our daily lives.  That makes the show a double edged sword for the writers.  Yes, sure, relevant.  No, hell no, I don't need my "entertainment" to be so close to the current horrors some of us feel we are living through.  Again, some of this is not the writer's fault, but honestly?  Writing such a bleak show during these times is going to wear people down.

UNLESS they have significant forward movement, and it's an "overcoming" story, at least in part.  I have hope they will realize this, from reviews, and fan reactions, and correct it starting next season.  I know Hulu pays attention to Twitter, so if you tweet?  Make your feelings known.  I'm sure they want this show to continue and to be loved.  Tell them what they must start doing to accomplish that.

10 seasons my ass!

Yes, the materiel is there in the epilogue, and they need to get on that and soon, show the resistance, show the world, constant misery isn't going to cut it in today's world.

5 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

The only way I'd change my mind is IF we learn that Nick has been working with the resistance from the beginning and chose to stay because he wanted to fight it from the inside. Even then, I need to see some hard evidence of things that he's done to help the resistance. I don't dislike Nick as a character (I find him boring but I don't hate him) but I really don't see him doing much. HOW is he fighting?

He's been working with them though, and that's very heroic.  He has access to a car and tons of information about border control, etc.  He COULD escape, but he stays to fight the system from within.

I agree though, the writing for him sucks, flesh him out, this is another example of world building that this show desperately needs.  He's our "in" to Mayday!  Why aren't they showing that?

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3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

He's been working with them though, and that's very heroic.  He has access to a car and tons of information about border control, etc.  He COULD escape, but he stays to fight the system from within.

That frustrates me. If he's so free to come and go as he pleases - and seems to have more freedom than anyone else - including his night-time visits to June in her bedroom and leave the house with a bundle of letters, undetected, why can't he take her out of there the same way he got in, and no one the wiser, since no one sees or hears his comings and goings?

I'm not loving the last season. As is pointed out here, not much is happening. A bomb went off, killing some people and injuring our beloved Commander Fred, but we see no repercussions or even much of a reaction to such a shocking incident. The Commander is using a cane, and that's about it. Serena fiddles in her greenhouse in the middle of the endless, grey winter, June cries and Nick wants nothing to do with his child bride. What am I missing? Oh, and I guess Nick got shot at the end of the last ep. June cries.

 

6 hours ago, llewis823 said:

But I would hope they would try to work it out with the person they committed to first.

When there is no love there or when love has died, there's not much to "work out." First isn't always best, IME.

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On 6/22/2018 at 11:20 PM, cincivic said:

The darkness and the speaking voices is just annoying. Why does everything have to be so dark? 

My big pet peeve is that the men act as if June is so incredibly gorgeous. I am sorry, Moss is a good actress but IMO she is just plain looking. Even in real life, she is just average. Alexis BLedel is much prettier. Petty, I know.

 

On 6/24/2018 at 8:04 PM, Umbelina said:

Perhaps because looks alone are not what makes a woman beautiful, or desirable?

I was just going to say the same thing. I'm not as pretty as Alexis Bledel, and I used to get all kinds of attention that I didn't like. I don't mean to target the one post above, I quoted and then forgot to unquote before responding. People used to do the same thing with Sarah Jessica Parker, wondering why she was famous, because she wasn't that pretty. 

And I was going to add to this thread, that I really don't know if I can watch the show anymore, because of how horrific the storylines can be, and the news getting worse every day. I'm watching something fluffy. 

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On 6/25/2018 at 11:45 PM, AngelaHunter said:

What I hate is that every minute of the show is disturbing, bleak, sad, stressful and depressing without a second of relief. Everyone is miserable every second of the day and night. 

Right. I don't want to be flattened every single time I watch a show. 

And I wanted to add to my post above, that June is also in pretty close quarters with the commander, and Nick. She's something different for Fred, compared to his wife (although the two women do have things in common, as was shown when they worked together for a little while). It seemed like Nick was involved with at least one woman at the place that Moira was stuck in, before she got free - I'm sure I remember him turning a girl down, when he was there, because he'd developed feelings for June. 

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2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

If he's so free to come and go as he pleases - and seems to have more freedom than anyone else - including his night-time visits to June in her bedroom and leave the house with a bundle of letters, undetected, why can't he take her out of there the same way he got in, and no one the wiser, since no one sees or hears his comings and goings?

If they bothered to develop Nick as a spy and as Mayday resistance, we would know. 

For a fan wank I go with this:  He's a very valuable source for the resistance, and if he leaves, they lose a key asset.  So he stays to fight behind enemy lines.

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On 5/30/2018 at 8:30 PM, Umbelina said:

I love the actress playing Eden, she looks so unstable and menacing, as are most fanatics.

I'm frustrated that the writers aren't using the Canada scenes to show us more about the outside world reactions to both Gilead and their own birth rate issues.  As I said in the episode thread, THAT is what I was expecting from a Canada story.  Reporters interviewing the escapees, news about the U.N. sanctions, has war been discussed, or rescue, or supplying the resistance fighters? 

They are sitting up there with computers and TV's and newspapers, and knowing how the rest of the world feels about Gilead, and we aren't getting any of that.  I don't want just backstories and grieving, I want to know what's happening in the world.  After being deprived of that for so long, you'd think the characters would want that as well.  Or be petitioning other countries to help, being interviewed about what life was in Gilead.  I want to see women in Europe outraged and protesting and using their power to say both "not here!" and "help them!"

I really want to know what’s going on with Mexico and how the rest of the world reacted to their trading oranges for handmaids.

1 hour ago, Anela said:

- I'm sure I remember him turning a girl down, when he was there, because he'd developed feelings for June

Yes, that chef who made him the fettucine alfredo I think it was.

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4 hours ago, Missus Aitch said:

I really want to know what’s going on with Mexico and how the rest of the world reacted to their trading oranges for handmaids.

 

That's when the series started to lose me last year. Up till then I thought there might be some possibility of something good happening in general.  Then it turns out, they were dropping endings and plots left, right, and center.  Mexico's importance was solely to have the aide get a note to Luke.  Once that happened, end of story.

I am so cranky about this season, when it was clear things were going sideways last season, too.  But this season, it just seems to be a continuous series of dark, brooding vignettes.  Including last night's episode. I  am out after this season, life is too harsh and sad in real life, I don't need it in my "entertainment", too.  And generally I'm a fan of dystopian fiction...so it's not me, it's the show.

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3 hours ago, whoknowswho said:

Then it turns out, they were dropping endings and plots left, right, and center.  Mexico's importance was solely to have the aide get a note to Luke.  Once that happened, end of story.

 

They're dropping more plot points than LOST. (And I stubbornly held onto to that clusterfuck until the bitter end.)

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3 hours ago, mamadrama said:

They're dropping more plot points than LOST. (And I stubbornly held onto to that clusterfuck until the bitter end.)

This show rivals LOST for squandered potential and aimless storytelling after a tight first season. Both shows are good arguments for quitting while you're ahead. (See also the British version of The Office vs. the American version.)

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26 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

This show rivals LOST for squandered potential and aimless storytelling after a tight first season. Both shows are good arguments for quitting while you're ahead. (See also the British version of The Office vs. the American version.)

 

 I could not agree more with you. 

It’s actually shocking to me to see the drop in quality from last season. 

Everything from the writing to the acting to the plots to the overall direction, thanks Miller. 

I have seen recent interviews with him that have truly left me dumbfounded. 

I don’t know if they were just so surprised the show was such an explosive hit that they had very little prepared for a season two, but holy shit I never thought the drop off would be this noticeable. 

They even still have Atwood to consult with but I feel like someone wanted to get their own ideas established and tied in this season. 

They wanted to take Atwood’s Gilead and fashion other sides to it that were solely based on their own concepts and ideas.

I hink this sophomore season proves it’s never a good idea to piggyback off of someone else’s genius if you have far less of your own to rely on. 

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4 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

 

 I could not agree more with you. 

It’s actually shocking to me to see the drop in quality from last season. 

Everything from the writing to the acting to the plots to the overall direction, thanks Miller. 

I have seen recent interviews with him that have truly left me dumbfounded. 

I don’t know if they were just so surprised the show was such an explosive hit that they had very little prepared for a season two, but holy shit I never thought the drop off would be this noticeable. 

They even still have Atwood to consult with but I feel like someone wanted to get their own ideas established and tied in this season. 

They wanted to take Atwood’s Gilead and fashion other sides to it that were solely based on their own concepts and ideas.

I think this sophomore season proves it’s never a good idea to piggyback off of someone else’s genius if you have far less of your own to rely on. 

Truer words were never spoken. I think of how Game of Thrones has lost it's oomph since it no longer has the books to go off.  And I thought Westworld's season this year was the pits, too though a couple episodes were excellent.  They were the same people who did Lost, so why am I surprised regarding Westworld?

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21 hours ago, Umbelina said:

If they bothered to develop Nick as a spy and as Mayday resistance, we would know. 

Now THAT would be a fabulous addition to the show.

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On 6/27/2018 at 2:08 PM, AnswersWanted said:

I hate that there’s only two episodes left abd this show has barely moved or developed further at this point. 

Personally for me season two has been filled with very lazy, very uninspired writing and direction.

Even some of the performers I have felt did not really give 100% of an effort as they did in season one, and I think that was mainly due to the material or lack thereof. 

The show was handed the baton with season one, all they had to do was run with it on to the finish line with season two, instead the baton got dropped badly. 

One thwarted escape, one cut out tongue, one suicide bombing, one trip to Canada, one pregnancy rape, one lonesome birth in an empty house later, and we have...shit all, really. 

No expansion on Rita, we barely saw her, Nick is left standing around looking like he just wants a grilled cheese sandwich and a cold beer most of the time, June is just in a constant state of torture, Fred and Serena are in a constant state of being rapist fuckers, Lydia is doing whatever when she’s not emotionally and physically abusing “her girls” which is apparently not much else, we don’t really get to see any of the inner workings of the regime, we have yet to see any military members, we got a tiny snippet of life for the Econo people, and Luke and Moira might as well live in a box somewhere for how much they have mattered as Gileaed escapees. 

The pacing is just way too lackluster for me. 

 I don’t mind waiting for something to happen but this show keeps using that anticipation like a crutch, I feel, and I am tired of it. 

I'd love to more about Gilead, personally.  I'd especially like to know how much Gilead encompasses.  I mean we got some maps this last episode of the "blink-and-you'll-miss-them" variety, but I want to know how the fighting is going and how others are living under Gilead rule.  Are there states where there's a tug of war of domination going on?  Are there still free states besides Alaska and Hawaii?  I want more world building and less rape in the dead of Canada winter please.

Edited by bmoore4026

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21 hours ago, whoknowswho said:

Truer words were never spoken. I think of how Game of Thrones has lost it's oomph since it no longer has the books to go off.  And I thought Westworld's season this year was the pits, too though a couple episodes were excellent.  They were the same people who did Lost, so why am I surprised regarding Westworld?

 

15 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

I'd love to more about Gilead, personally.  I'd especially like to know how much Gilead encompasses.  I mean we got some maps this last episode of the "blink-and-you'll-miss-them" variety, but I want to know how the fighting is going and how others are living under Gilead rule.  Are there states where there's a tug of war of domination going on?  Are there still free states besides Alaska and Hawaii?  I want more world building and less rape in the dead of Canada winter please.

 

 

Both your points are great, and I totally agree. 

 The more I think about it the more and more frustrated I get.

I have come to the conclusion that I 100% believe it would’ve been so much better if they had never left Gilead.

 June did not need to escape, in my opinion, the show was not ready to let it get that far.

Season 1 was only 10 episodes, and Atwood’s book held material worth three seasons, at least, all on its own.

All the show had to do, in my opinion anyway, was showcase the genius she created and bring it to life in a modern retelling.

 There are plenty of things that they could’ve done more of: showing us more Commanders and their individual households, showing us more of Moira’s time spent as a handmaid, or showing us more of Jezebel's and that side of society, showing us things about the war and whatever is left of the military, or how about showing an actual meeting of the minds by those in the resistance, that’s still something we haven’t yet touched on, who exactly makes up MayDay and who’s in control? Nick supposedly is a part of it and yet we still see nothing. 

Can we really just assume that because they are anti-Gilead they could not be pro something else just as troubling? We see it all the time in real life, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. 

Why couldn’t we have seen Janine’s past life?’ Or find out in-depth details about Lydia? How exactly does a woman become a trusted aunt to serve in Gilead? We could’ve seen June’s mother navigating the colonies, her initial capture and all that came afterwards, giving us a glimpse of what really goes on there, what is the purpose of what they’re doing except to just die a slow, agonizing death? What did those particular aunts get caught doing, or were accused of, to have to serve there?

We could’ve seen more about life before the takeover concerning Fred and Serena. What job in particular did Fred have? Where did they meet? A church potluck? What is their exact religion if they even had one? How did their little group get started? Over cocktails and a bible study one night?

What happened to their families? It’s always something that I’ve thought about.

Did Fred and Serena have a total break from their maternal and paternal links? Could some of their own family members have ended up on that wall because of the ruthless regime they gave life to? Did they have mothers?  

There’s been no evidence of any of the commanders or their wives having places of honor for grandparents when a child has been born, whether grandmother or grandfather, so where are they?

Were they all rounded up and sent to the colonies for being too old and worthless according to Gilead law as they could no longer produce children?

Overall there is a total absence of family in general I feel like in Gilead: where are the siblings of the higher ups, their children have no aunts, uncles, cousins? How did they come to not exist? Were they declared inferior in some way? Forced into the Econo family role only? Or something much, much worse?

And I could just go on and on, heh, I’ve thought a lot about this, and it’s really disappointing that apparently the show developers didn’t.

 I truly feel that the show rushed itself to get here this season.

It seems they had so many ideas of what to do that things got incredibly muddled, but instead of trying to find clarity again, they just started filming.

So now we have all these dropped storylines and plot points, both from season one and in this season.

Numerous characters that we could’ve seen whole episodes made about that only got five minute cameos, the Mexico deal that never made sense, more details about the outside world and survivors, the suicide bombing and the lead up to it, the planning and development by the resistance, the trip to Canada and how it was devised, Fred never being held accountable, publically or privately, for all his major fuck ups, it’s all way too much wasted opportunity for me to ignore.

And I really hate that. 

Edited by AnswersWanted
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1 hour ago, AnswersWanted said:

 

 

Both your points are great, and I totally agree. 

 The more I think about it the more and more frustrated I get.

I have come to the conclusion that I 100% believe it would’ve been so much better if they had never left Gilead.

 June did not need to escape, in my opinion, the show was not ready to let it get that far.

Season 1 was only 10 episodes, and Atwood’s book held material worth three seasons, st least, all on its own.

All the show had to do, in my opinion anyway, was showcase the genius she created and bring it to life in a modern retelling.

 There are plenty of things that they could’ve done more of: showing us more Commanders and their individual households, showing us more of Moira’s time spent as a handmaid, or showing us more of Jezebel's and that side of society, showing us things about the war and whatever is left of the military, or how about showing an actual meeting of the minds by those in the resistance, that’s still something we haven’t yet touched on, who exactly makes up MayDay and who’s in control? Nick supposedly is a part of it and yet we still see nothing. 

Can we really just assume that because they are anti-Gilead they could not be pro something else just as troubling? We see it all the time in real life, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. 

Why couldn’t we have seen Janine’s past life?’ Or find out in-depth details about Lydia? How exactly does a woman become a trusted aunt to serve in Gilead? We could’ve seen June’s mother navigating the colonies, her initial capture and all that came afterwards, giving us a glimpse of what really goes on there, what is the purpose of what they’re doing except to just die a slow, agonizing death? What did those particular aunts get caught doing, or were accused of, to have to serve there?

We could’ve seen more about life before the takeover concerning Fred and Serena. What job in particular did Fred have? Where did they meet? A church potluck? What is their exact religion if they even had one? How did their little group get started? Over cocktails and a bible study one night?

What happened to their families? It’s always something that I’ve thought about.

Did Fred and Serena have a total break from their maternal and paternal links? Could some of their own family members have ended up on that wall because of the ruthless regime they gave life to? Did they have mothers?  

There’s been no evidence of any of the commanders or their wives having places of honor for grandparents when a child has been born, whether grandmother or grandfather, so where are they?

Were they all rounded up and sent to the colonies for being too old and worthless according to Gilead law as they could no longer produce children?

Overall there is a total absence of family in general I feel like in Gilead: where are the siblings of the higher ups, their children have no aunts, uncles, cousins? How did they come to not exist? Were they declared inferior in some way? Forced into the Econo family role only? Or something much, much worse?

And I could just go on and on, heh, I’ve thought a lot about this, and it’s really disappointing that apparently the show developers didn’t.

 I truly feel that the show rushed itself to get here this season.

It seems they had so many ideas of what to do that things got incredibly muddled, but instead of trying to find clarity again, they just started filming.

So now we have all these dropped storylines and plot points, both from season one and in this season.

Numerous characters that we could’ve seen whole episodes made about that only got five minute cameos, the Mexico deal that never made sense, more details about the outside world and survivors, the suicide bombing and the lead up to it, the planning and development by the resistance, the trip to Canada and how it was devised, Fred never being held accountable, public ally or privately, for all his major fuck ups, it’s all way too much wasted opportunity for me to ignore.

And I really hate that. 

I so wish the writers and producers would read this. You came up with such great ideas and I believe it didn't take you hours of meetings and brainstorming, did it?

The writers dropped a big ball and they don't even realize it - or maybe they do since they are praising themselves for some geniality that must be somewhere hidden in Gilead. They fail in the most basic TV writing attribute: storytelling. Which is kind of ironic since the show is about telling a story. 

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One thing that indicates to me how flat the writing is, is that spoilers kill my enjoyment of the show, or at least my need to see it. In a well-written show, knowing what is going to happen hasn’t ruined an episode for me, because it’s how the characters get there and react that makes the show worth watching. For example, I remember being  spoiled for what happens in The West Wing’s 18th and Potomac

Spoiler

Mrs Landingham’s death

but it still felt like a punch in the gut when it happened, because that show was so brilliantly written and acted.  For the Americans finale, I live-posted some factual descriptions of what was happening at the request of some West coast viewers, but I’m willing to bet it didn’t effect their enjoyment and wonder when they saw it themselves a few hours later.  The journey was what mattered because that show was also brilliantly written and acted.

With THT, once I know what’s going to happen, watching it unfold is a big “meh”.   The first season captured (for the most part - Mexico plot was stupid) the beauty of watching a story unfold (of course I was spoiled since I’d read the book), but the series of vignettes that is the second season are just leaving me cold. 

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4 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I so wish the writers and producers would read this. You came up with such great ideas and I believe it didn't take you hours of meetings and brainstorming, did it?

The writers dropped a big ball and they don't even realize it - or maybe they do since they are praising themselves for some geniality that must be somewhere hidden in Gilead. They fail in the most basic TV writing attribute: storytelling. Which is kind of ironic since the show is about telling a story. 

 

You are right on, that’s what I think too, and thanks, I actually had a strong urge to tweet that list at them and I never tweet about anything, I don’t even have a Twitter account, that’s how far the show has pushed me, heh. 

I’ve seen interviews where they claim that they would do X or explain Y but it’s called “The Handmaid’s Tale” for a reason.

But to me that’s just a huge cop out and actually insulting to the masterpiece Atwood created. 

The title was a simple representation that the story being told would come from a singular character’s viewpoint, supposedly, an unnamed woman giving details and recounting all that she knew about this place called Gilead. 

She did not merely tell us about herself though, she was describing a whole new world order for the US, a new societal ruling class, with a viciousness and cruelty that was utterly shocking and hard to fathom how or why things had gone so far. 

Expanding on the things that she described to me should’ve been natural, and I wholeheartedly believe it would have enriched the experience ten or twentyfold.

Just spend the time and effort to answer or expand on or explain some of the questions that Atwood left open ended because otherwise her book would have been a million pages long. 

That’s the one thing a TV show can do when it’s based on a book, I feel, it can explore many directions that sometimes the book cannot cover, otherwise it’d be far too long and tedious to read.

The show keeps trying to excuse their lack of depth by saying that they need to stick to June’s story, but in doing so they somehow have stopped sticking to Atwood's entire premise for the story in the first place, and to me that is definitely one of the biggest blunder of all.

Like you said, they have failed at a lot of basic storytelling tactics, such as don’t lose the plot. 

 

4 hours ago, Trillian said:

One thing that indicates to me how flat the writing is, is that spoilers kill my enjoyment of the show, or at least my need to see it. In a well-written show, knowing what is going to happen hasn’t ruined an episode for me, because it’s how the characters get there and react that makes the show worth watching. For example, I remember being  spoiled for what happens in The West Wing’s 18th and Potomac

  Reveal hidden contents

Mrs Landingham’s death

but it still felt like a punch in the gut when it happened, because that show was so brilliantly written and acted.  For the Americans finale, I live-posted some factual descriptions of what was happening at the request of some West coast viewers, but I’m willing to bet it didn’t effect their enjoyment and wonder when they saw it themselves a few hours later.  The journey was what mattered because that show was also brilliantly written and acted.

With THT, once I know what’s going to happen, watching it unfold is a big “meh”.   The first season captured (for the most part - Mexico plot was stupid) the beauty of watching a story unfold (of course I was spoiled since I’d read the book), but the series of vignettes that is the second season are just leaving me cold. 

 

I am in complete agreement.

As each episode has been spoiled for this season I felt as you do, they’ve been real killjoys. 

 Sometimes I have wanted to give an episode a chance, the descriptions for it seem interesting or intriguing, and then a promo comes out or in-depth spoilers and suddenly I feel like I have to prepare myself to be disappointed and more often than not I have been.

As you said, there have been so many “meh” moments, ones specifically that the show claimed should be so moving and important to us the viewers, but to me they have consistently all season been overselling and underdelivering.

The first season did capture a lot of what made the book so special and meaningful, and I really thought that Atwood handed them the keys afterwards to her kingdom, to let them now have a chance to take the story further, supported by the rock solid foundation she’d built for them. 

But with this season I feel like they have basically “Thelma and Louise’d” this literary vehicle right off a cliff.

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Not hate, but a nitpick

The greetings: "Blessed be the fruit" - "May the lord open"

They sound so ridiculous, that I can't help myself thinking that M. Atwood wrote this with an extra dose of her usual sarcasm. My nitpick is why aren't the handmaids rolling their eyes when they say that? They are much more defiant of the rules this season so I wanted to see some eye rolling when this is said. 

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I'd like an immediate moratorium on all of the flashbacks. It's done. It's over. I don't care.

 

And I wish the show would run separate plot threads to pick up all of the things they've dropped. Along with June's lather-rinse-repeat plot thread, they could:

Show the Mayday plotline -- give MayDay separate characters, give the plot an arc, show their struggles and successes. We'll trust that eventually these people will cross paths with June. We could have seen how Ofglen/Lizzie, who was OK with having "3 hots and a cot" at first, became militarized...how was she recruited, since she couldn't speak? We'd have felt suspense as the bombing plot was hatched...cheered when her bomb went off... and cried that she took so many handmaids with the commanders. Instead, we got a bomb and no repercussions, except Fred had a cane for 2 episodes.

Show the Canada plotline -- consistently. Each episode, show us Luke and Moira working to free their friends trapped in Gilead. Show them using the free press and other advantages they have that Gileadans don't. Give them an arc, and show it every episode. That ex-handmaiden who was mute for a time has got to be more active politically.   I'd love to see that CIA agent developed. He was a deliciously subversive character, and I wanted him to really get under Serena's skin. I'd love to see him secretly find a way to communicate with Serena. Tempt her with the possibility of life outside. Send her beautiful pictures of life in Hawaii, anonymously at first. Make us wonder if SJ is being tempted. (All we have now is SJ the shrew)

Show the Gileadean power players -- show us the pressures against and for Fred politically. Show us how they are reacting to the external and internal threats. Show us how they are responding to Mayday, or ignoring and downplaying the threat of Mayday. They could build a whole thread around what's happening politically in Gilead. Instead, Fred is becoming a cartoon villain.

I really miss all of these dropped plot lines.

And maybe it's because I'm child free and have a cold shriveled not-a-mother heart, but I didn't GAF about *either* of June's birthing sequences, nor did I need to see one more woman who's just given birth look down at the baby and whisper, "Hi." I'm sure that trite old cliché had impact the first time I saw it, but having seen it 21,452,585 times now, it's just cheesy.

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I don't know if we need another thread, it might be too close to this one in intent?  So I'm just going to put this here.

The Handmaid's Tale Rewrite!

Start following up on stories, put someone in charge who has story arcs, both long and short in mind, stop just writing episodes that seem cool to you, and ignore your own canon!  A few examples:

  1. June is so scared Fred might hurt the baby that she tells Aunt Lydia in one episode.
  2. June deliberately provokes Fred by screaming at him that it's not his child in the next. (and no, pregnancy hormones and their effects only go so far.)
  3. No follow up from the disastrous Canada trip on either the Gilead or Canada side.
  4. The bombing is never mentioned again.

You can't have it both ways, either World Build or have this story be from June's eyes as in the book!  You already left that far behind so start world building and do it now.

  1. Nick's in Mayday AND the Eyes.  We have never seen him talk to anyone about either of those, or at his job.  We had one brief and confusing glimpse of the Eye job with that commander.  Nick is the perfect character, as a double agent, to show us both of those worlds.  Fucking do it.
  2. We have the Canada people, and they are completely wasted drowning in more misery and inaction.  This is your place to show hope, action, the events of the world.  Enough with the flashbacks and darkness, you have enough of that in Gilead.  Show us the world resistance, show us the web and twitter and Facebook and plans!  Show us some joy there!
  3. CIA guy.  Bring him back, and while you are at it, show the USA (Alaska and Hawaii) or at least Alaska.  How hard could it possibly be?  You are filming in Canada already and Anchorage is the new capital of the USA.  What's happening there?  Why aren't we seeing it?  You want 10 seasons?  Then earn it by answering some book questions we've had!
  4. The Commanders.  Just WHAT do they do?  WHO is really in charge?  Does it work by consensus, or do they elect a leader?  I don't want to see a few blurry maps in a Vacation house!  I want to know EXACTLY where the wars are, and who is winning?  What ground is held by rebels?  What weapons does the USA still have?  Are they threatening the world with them?  Is it hand to hand combat in the resistance wars, or are drones and satellites being used?
  5. You showed one nuclear waste colony.  Why aren't you showing the crop colonies, or AT LEAST showing us just how many nuclear waste sites there are, and what areas they are in!  Why can't you grow more crops?  The USA used to export crops, and you can't now, so why don't you have, for example, and abundance of wheat and strawberries and all the rest?

Overall changes aside from keeping consistent canon, following up on previous episodes ect.

  1. You can't have all misery all the time and expect to keep viewers.  There has to be some hope or light to balance the darkness and despair.  Some logical and interesting ways to do that are listed above.  There are more.
  2. Viewers and reviewers will take a journey with you, even if it's a difficult one, but ONLY if you seem to know where you are going, and have an overall plan, beyond "let's keep this thing going as long as possible."  We are losing faith in that, and once it's gone, it's gone.  You have MAYBE one more season to win that back.  Get on that.  Do it quickly or you are killing not only the goose, but it's golden egg as well.
  3. Great acting will not save you, it may still get you awards, but story counts.  Stop just giving characters amazing individual stories, and start to pull them all together in a cohesive way.
Edited by Umbelina · Reason: )
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26 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I don't know if we need another thread, it might be too close to this one in intent?  So I'm just going to put this here.

The Handmaid's Tale Rewrite!

Start following up on stories, put someone in charge who has story arcs, both long and short in mind, stop just writing episodes that seem cool to you, and ignore your own canon!  A few examples:

  1. June is so scared Fred might hurt the baby that she tells Aunt Lydia in one episode.
  2. June deliberately provokes Fred by screaming at him that it's not his child in the next. (and no, pregnancy hormones and their effects only go so far.
  3. No follow up from the disastrous Canada trip on either the Gilead or Canada side.
  4. The bombing is never mentioned again.

You can't have it both ways, either World Build or have this story be from June's eyes as in the book!  You already left that far behind so start world building and do it now.

  1. Nick's in Mayday AND the Eyes.  We have never seen him talk to anyone about either of those, or at his job.  We had one brief and confusing glimpse of the Eye job with that commander.  Nick is the perfect character, as a double agent, to show us both of those worlds.  Fucking do it.
  2. We have the Canada people, and they are completely wasted drowning in more misery and inaction.  This is your place to show hope, action, the events of the world.  Enough with the flashbacks and darkness, you have enough of that in Gilead.  Show us the world resistance, show us the web and twitter and Facebook and plans!  Show us some joy there!
  3. CIA guy.  Bring him back, and while you are at it, show the USA (Alaska and Hawaii) or at least Alaska.  How hard could it possibly be?  You are filming in Canada already and Anchorage is the new capital of the USA.  What's happening there?  Why aren't we seeing it?  You want 10 seasons?  Then earn it by answering some book questions we've had!
  4. The Commanders.  Just WHAT do they do?  WHO is really in charge?  Does it work by consensus, or do they elect a leader?  I don't want to see a few blurry maps in a Vacation house!  I want to know EXACTLY where the wars are, and who is winning?  What ground is held by rebels?  What weapons does the USA still have?  Are they threatening the world with them?  Is it hand to hand combat in the resistance wars, or are drones and satellites being used?
  5. You showed one nuclear waste colony.  Why aren't you showing the crop colonies, or AT LEAST showing us just how many nuclear waste sites there are, and what areas they are in!  Why can't you grow more crops?  The USA used to export crops, and you can't now, so why don't you have, for example, and abundance of wheat and strawberries and all the rest?

Overall changes aside from keeping consistent canon, following up on previous episodes ect.

  1. You can't have all misery all the time and expect to keep viewers.  There has to be some hope or light to balance the darkness and despair.  Some logical and interesting ways to do that are listed above.  There are more.
  2. Viewers and reviewers will take a journey with you, even if it's a difficult one, but ONLY if you seem to know where you are going, and have an overall plan, beyond "let's keep this thing going as long as possible."  We are losing faith in that, and once it's gone, it's gone.  You have MAYBE one more season to win that back.  Get on that.  Do it quickly or you are killing not only the goose, but it's golden egg as well.
  3. Great acting will not save you, it may still get you awards, but story counts.  Stop just giving characters amazing individual stories, and start to pull them all together in a cohesive way.

I would love this entire comment 100 times if I could!

A little, tiny respite from misery would go such a long way. Having a birth scene and immediately knowing it's going to end sadly, isn't enough. We saw the car lights, we know what's coming. Give us a little, tiny bit of joy, and not Serena Joy.

Margaret Atwood did a stellar job of writing this book, and as you've mentioned before, there's plenty material to show more of her book. 1/2 episode of the Econopeople doesn't count.  The loss of racism and the Children of Ham, while I understand why they haven't shown it, it's a glaring miss. Sexism and racism were the cornerstones of Gilead.  I'd like to see Gilead proper, and I'd like to see the tiny rest of the US and Canada, proper. 10 seasons? Nope. People can only stand so much misery in their entertainment, I have one episode to go and I'll be free. I loved the book, and I am more and more disappointed with the show.

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2 hours ago, whoknowswho said:

I loved the book, and I am more and more disappointed with the show.

That sums it up for me too.

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Please someone tell me I am not crazy and that the show runners said they'd touch on race this season. If they did, THEN WHERE IS IT? I don't understand why they are neglecting to address race since more fundamentalist Christian groups are white. Not that I'd really expect them to handle this topic with nuance, but they could've addressed this with colorism. Are lighter skinned black people permissible in Gilead as commanders, handmaids, econowives, even Martha's because of the tone of their skin? *At least* I would've somehow understood that since colorism has its roots in white supremacy. I don't understand why this is so hard.

On a different note, there has been no real plot movement in season two. A lot of shows do suffer a sophomore slump for some reason. IMO, they need to have an end date, five seasons, for example. They need to plan out what happens each season, so they know where they are going. They have also got to build this world outside of June's perspective. I want to see more econowives. I want to see what happened to any of the commanders and their wives' families. What about their sisters, brothers, parents, cousins, etc...? There has to be more world building. I also want more backstory on Aunt Lydia thanks to Ann Dowd's magnificent acting. 

Also, please, no more snow. I just cannot even with it anymore. 

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4 hours ago, whoknowswho said:

I loved the book, and I am more and more disappointed with the show.

 

For me I just don’t understand how they could have squandered so much goodness so damn quick.

Atwood crafted and brought to life a stunning piece of literature that to this day continues to apply so well to the real world, to real life circumstances for a lot of people, both here and outside of the US.

I truly believe that “The Handmaid’s Tale” is timeless, because one way or another Atwood expertly included things that continue to have a solid presence in our concept of modern day, whether that was 1980 or 1998 or 2018.

 She put together so many well-thought-out themes, on the subjects of religion, sexism, racism, misogyny, rape culture, sexual harassment, domestic abuse, environmental issues, government, science and medical growth or lack there of, and world order. 

She gave the show the greenlight to bring her book to the screen, and during season one they seemed aware, awake, and willing to try to do justice to the subject material. 

This season has just been a hot mess overall, in my opinion, more things to note that did not work than that did. 

So many inconsistencies, so many dropped plot points that confused and bewildered to begin with and then there was never any pay off even if the nonsense was given a chance, the lack of character growth, true character growth, the lack of decent storytelling. 

I think Atwood is of a caliber greater than most writers, she’s just a good to me, so I never expected the writers for the show to be nearly as good, decent enough, but I also did not expect them to be this bad when left to their own devices.  

The basis for the show is still there, staring us all in the face, everything within Atwood's book it’s still prevalent, it can still apply, I have no idea why they seem to basically have written the book off at this point, when they barely scratched the surface of it to even get things going.

The book is like a nine course delicious meal and this bunch just lazily picked over an appetizer and then asked for the check.

To me, if you’re not willing to devote the necessary time and energy and creative efforts that such a book obviously deserves, if you really think that a mere 10 episodes arc could possibly have been enough to give credence to the genius stored in all of those pages, you have to be a monumental fool in my eyes.

But then again I have to accept that these are people who instead of giving us Gilead life decided to give us a Gilead dog wolf.

I absolutely think that a third season is going to be a make it or break it for them, if they don’t get this now wayward “tale” back on track, I don’t see myself or many others giving it another chance..

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2 hours ago, PepSinger said:

Please someone tell me I am not crazy and that the show runners said they'd touch on race this season. If they did, THEN WHERE IS IT? I don't understand why they are neglecting to address race since more fundamentalist Christian groups are white. Not that I'd really expect them to handle this topic with nuance, but they could've addressed this with colorism. Are lighter skinned black people permissible in Gilead as commanders, handmaids, econowives, even Martha's because of the tone of their skin? *At least* I would've somehow understood that since colorism has its roots in white supremacy. I don't understand why this is so hard.

 

I am probably in the minority here, but I am ok with the TV show dropping the Children of Ham and racism plot lines that were in the book.  As others have mentioned it would have made it nearly impossible, at least in the first season which stayed truer to the book, to have any non-white actors.  I'd rather have a diverse cast, especially with the incredible Moira, and have one less plot line.  I don't know if the show runners said they would touch on it.  Maybe having a black guy get promoted to Commander because he can pop out a baby with his actual wife was "touching on it"?  (If so, how lame.)  I know it was important in the book, but with any adaptations from book to screen somethings have to be cut.  With all the other plot lines they're picking up and then dropping, I don't need another one on the Children of Ham to be picked up and dropped. 

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On 6/28/2018 at 2:44 AM, whoknowswho said:

Mexico's importance was solely to have the aide get a note to Luke.  Once that happened, end of story.

And Luke didn't even try to save Hannah, after all of that. IMO Luke is the worst written and least developed character on the show. I am still mad at him for sitting at that bar getting drunk when he was with a member of June's household who just outed himself as part of the resistance movement trying to reunite her with Luke and Hannah. Since we're making comparisons to The Walking Dead I have to mention when Maggie forgot she had a sibling and the showrunners said it was because she simply loved her SO MUCH that entertaining even the possibility of her death was too anguishing to imagine. Is that what we're supposed to think Luke is doing? Focusing on June because focusing on Hannah would be too hard? 

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1 minute ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

And Luke didn't even try to save Hannah, after all of that. IMO Luke is the worst written and least developed character on the show. I am still mad at him for sitting at that bar getting drunk when he was with a member of June's household who just outed himself as part of the resistance movement trying to reunite her with Luke and Hannah. Since we're making comparisons to The Walking Dead I have to mention when Maggie forgot she had a sibling and the showrunners said it was because Maggie thought about Beth SO MUCH that entertaining even the possibility of her death was too anguishing to imagine. Is that what we're supposed to think Luke is doing? Focusing on June because focusing on Hannah would be too hard? 

Luke. I really dislike him, he's insipid and weak and childish. The acter's great--they gave him shit for a character, and shit is what he's doing (or not doing).  Why he didn't go after Waterford, why he went and got drunk instead...was just another annoying part of the show. He's a man, he should have more power in his world, but he doesn't. He's weak and insipid, period.  He could have asked Nick "why do you know her" or "how WELL do you know her?" but basically we got," OK." Same thing when she told him she wanted him to leave his wife. Ok. 

The thing I HATE about this story, is there's zero accountability.  June escapes and gets caught? In Gilead, she should have been killed. They kill people for less.  Janine, God love her--they never did execute her, did they?  Just send her to the Colonies so the writers can check the box on Atwood's book, showing the Colonies.  Emily and Janine, losing teeth and fingernails in a radioactive wasteland? Oh, just bring them back to Gilead, give them dark circles under their eyes, that's enough.  It isn't enough. 

And that was a damn wolf, not a wild dog...

Will June be executed after the birth of Holly? Doubt it, even though that was supposed to be her ending according to Aunt Lydia,  June is a "problem" handmaid.   There's so many things I have disliked about this season, I just get in a ball of anger about it. The book was so good, and it was timeless, as others have mentioned--it could be 1980, 2000, 2020, it all is still germane.  Sorry...the show just disappoints me this season.

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As someone else said, the long drawn out focuses on June's face aren't evoking as much as they think they are.  Oh and if I were the man driving the bread truck and June stood in front of me trying to stop me, I would have put it in reverse. lol  

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3 minutes ago, kelslamu said:

As someone else said, the long drawn out focuses on June's face aren't evoking as much as they think they are.  Oh and if I were the man driving the bread truck and June stood in front of me trying to stop me, I would have put it in reverse. lol  

I would have run her down ?? bye bitch ???

Edited by GraceK
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2 hours ago, whoknowswho said:

He's a man, he should have more power in his world, but he doesn't. He's weak and insipid, period.  He could have asked Nick "why do you know her" or "how WELL do you know her?" but basically we got," OK." Same thing when she told him she wanted him to leave his wife. Ok. 

Agree. Makes one wonder just what June saw in him that was so compelling. Oh, well - no accounting for taste.

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2 hours ago, whoknowswho said:

Luke. I really dislike him, he's insipid and weak and childish. The acter's great--they gave him shit for a character, and shit is what he's doing (or not doing).  Why he didn't go after Waterford, why he went and got drunk instead...was just another annoying part of the show. He's a man, he should have more power in his world, but he doesn't. He's weak and insipid, period.  He could have asked Nick "why do you know her" or "how WELL do you know her?" but basically we got," OK." Same thing when she told him she wanted him to leave his wife. Ok. 

The thing I HATE about this story, is there's zero accountability.  June escapes and gets caught? In Gilead, she should have been killed. They kill people for less.  Janine, God love her--they never did execute her, did they?  Just send her to the Colonies so the writers can check the box on Atwood's book, showing the Colonies.  Emily and Janine, losing teeth and fingernails in a radioactive wasteland? Oh, just bring them back to Gilead, give them dark circles under their eyes, that's enough.  It isn't enough. 

And that was a damn wolf, not a wild dog...

Will June be executed after the birth of Holly? Doubt it, even though that was supposed to be her ending according to Aunt Lydia,  June is a "problem" handmaid.   There's so many things I have disliked about this season, I just get in a ball of anger about it. The book was so good, and it was timeless, as others have mentioned--it could be 1980, 2000, 2020, it all is still germane.  Sorry...the show just disappoints me this season.

You've perfectly described everything wrong with the Luke character. Passionless, weak, insipid, a total follower. Getting mad at his wife for confronting his mistress because he wasn't returning her phone calls *attempting to save their marriage*. Luke would have been a more compliant handmaid than June. I can see him getting married to someone else who convinces him June is a lost cause. Or formally divorcing June because she tells him she loves Nick. Both scenarios he would exhibit the same total lack of concern. Just "Ok".

Lydia did try to mindfuck June into disassociating from her old identity and embracing Offred so that she may be redeemed and avoid execution. June was the sinner, not Offred, blah blah blah. There is that. 

Emily, though...I literally can't remember all the things she did to warrant execution. She's my favorite character but realistically she should have been hung ages ago--way before she tried to run over a bunch of guardians with a stolen car! Why did Janine's formal death sentence get lifted? Why did Janine, whose mental illness makes her a danger to herself and others, and Emily, a murderous gender traitor and confirmed rebel, of ALL people, get handpicked to leave the colonies? They are the WORST POSSIBLE CANDIDATES. Surely there was another handmaid who got sent off for not saying praise be with enough enthusiasm. 

Also the thing with Cushing is weird. That guy seemed too powerful to be taken down on Waterford's out-of-nowhere accusations.

I actually really do like this show a lot, but "Holly" was such a dud it has brought some resentment to the surface, lol.

Edited by The Mighty Peanut
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16 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

Why did Janine, whose mental illness makes her a danger to herself and others, and Emily, a murderous gender traitor and confirmed rebel, of ALL people, get handpicked to leave the colonies? They are the WORST POSSIBLE CANDIDATES. Surely there was another handmaid who got sent off for not saying praise be with enough enthusiasm. 

I don't think many handmaids were sent to the colonies, until their "tour" was up, and then, only if with 3 households they failed to produce a child.

After the bombing Gilead was desperate for fertile women, and I think they took every single possible fertile woman from the colonies, regardless of their past deeds.  It was probably a blanket order "bring back all fertile women and do it now!"

After all, the Commanders that believe in this shit need them, and the Commanders that don't?  Want to get laid at least once a month.

19 minutes ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

You've perfectly described everything wrong with the Luke character. Passionless, weak, insipid, a total follower. Getting mad at his wife for confronting his mistress because he wasn't returning her phone calls *attempting to save their marriage*. Luke would have been a more compliant handmaid than June. I can see him getting married to someone else who convinces him June is a lost cause. Or formally divorcing June because she tells him she loves Nick. Both scenarios he would exhibit the same total lack of concern. Just "Ok".

I think Atwood did that deliberately.

She didn't put innocent or perfect people in harms way on purpose, she wanted flawed people, I think in part to say, "no matter what you've done, no one deserves this."  Also, perfect people don't exist.

That said, Luke alternately annoys or bores me silly.

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52 minutes ago, AngelaHunter said:

Agree. Makes one wonder just what June saw in him that was so compelling. Oh, well - no accounting for taste.

The same thing could be said for Nick. He’s not exactly forthcoming with information, or at least not to June or Eden. Good at brooding and smoking cigarettes, I guess.

Edited by kieyra
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7 minutes ago, kieyra said:

The same thing could be said for Nick. He’s not exactly forthcoming with information, or at least not to June or Eden. Good at brooding and smoking cigarettes, I guess.

That, and honestly, what are her options?  Not just for sex, but for friendship?  She has Rita, kinda, but Nick is also Mayday, so some possible help to her.

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1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

 

I think Atwood did that deliberately.

She didn't put innocent or perfect people in harms way on purpose, she wanted flawed people, I think in part to say, "no matter what you've done, no one deserves this."  Also, perfect people don't exist.

 

Flawed characters are awesome in literature and movies/TV shows. June, however, for me veers from flawed to just flat-out annoying and mostly boring. For me to think a character is "flawed", I have to generally love them (or at least like them) yet also sometimes get annoyed by the human emotions they possess and the honest mistakes they make. We're two seasons in and I haven't yet warmed up to June as a character, and not even in a "I hate her so much that I love her" kind of way. To me, Aunt Lydia is flawed. I'm just bored by June. And by Luke. And a little bit by Nick. 

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