S01.E01 Pilot

[Cotypubby]

On 6/4/2018 at 9:59 PM, hatchetgirl said:

 

I was trying to figure out the lack of queens in a show about... queens.  What the hell? "Let's find some ready manish looking women and call it a day!" Shade! A plethora of amazing queens in the industry now and not a single one cast? Not a single male cast for this? Argh.

 

I’m confused. I just looked up the cast for this show and from what I could see, all (or at least all the main named roles) of the trans characters are played by trans actresses. 

[EtheltoTillie]

Paris Is Burning is a very sad movie, and this seems too happy, not showing enough of the sadness underneath. I came here also to comment on that awful dancing and the bad acting of mother Abundance. Glad to see others agree. I will stick with this for a while and see what happens. There's also a more recent documentary on the current ball scene on Netflix. Definitely worth watching. The houses have in some ways evolved into a more explicit support system for the throwaway kids who seek refuge. 

[Kaiju Ballet]

I was happy to see (or hallucinate) Jennie Livingston's name among the producers, as she's the filmmaker behind "Paris is Burning."

The dance audition was cringeworthy, but there were many scenes throughout the pilot that seemed to be references to other iconic 80s movie scenes, so I'm hoping it was that. Definitely the school was made up, as was the museum. The actual New School in the 80s was in less sparkly digs and went by "The New School for Social Research" --the dance schools that were in existence then probably didn't want to have their names attached. I handwaved the ability to get an audition called just for this one person who Aunt Viv had never heard of before, along with the display of historic costumes out in the open.

I missed any of the promotions for Pose, I came upon it accidentally and after that amazing opening (which I made sure to see!) Angel is already my favorite character, alongside Pray Tell. I did wonder at Blanca's source of income and what it takes to start/run a house, which I'm sure will be revealed in more details like their acceptance of the kid who offered to get food for the house from his bodega job. I like the fact that it didn't start as a result of a windfall, but more out of an urgent need to create a legacy.

[lyric]

Just curious - were "read for filth" and "giving me / you _____ realness" already in the vernacular in '87?  It took me out of the show as too modern, but I might just be slow on the uptake.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I know this goes without saying, but Damon's parents suuuuuuck. His mother just found her husband beating her son and her reaction is to say, "How could you do this to me?" Yes, it's all about YOU, lady.

The pilot was like a mishmash of a million different 80s movies and I loved it! 

I also love that James Van Der Beek clearly enjoys playing douchebag characters. His endless bragging was hilarious (mostly because he was on my tv screen and not in my actual house).

Although Damon's dance audition was not impressive (to say the least), not everyone who gets into a dance school comes in as an advanced dancer with perfect technique. Sometimes the school selects people with potential. Besides, it's the New School, not ABT.

Fun fact: Gene Anthony Ray, who played Leroy Johnson on Fame (both the movie and the tv series) was a street dancer with almost no training, but he showed up to the Fame auditions and was cast based on his potential and talent. When I saw Billy Elliott (the movie), I was pretty unimpressed with the kid's dance skills  but as was shown at the end, sometimes you just need the opportunity to learn and train.

2 minutes ago, lyric said:

Just curious - were "read for filth" and "giving me / you _____ realness" already in the vernacular in '87?  It took me out of the show as too modern, but I might just be slow on the uptake.

The one that really caught my ear was "the shade of it all" which I always hear in Latrice Royale's voice.

[lyric]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The one that really caught my ear was "the shade of it all" which I always hear in Latrice Royale's voice.

Oh wow, I missed hearing that one.  Yeah, I know so many great catchphrases originate in the drag scene, but 20-25 years later?  That seems a bit of stretch.

Edited June 7, 2018 by lyric

[For Cereals]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I know this goes without saying, but Damon's parents suuuuuuck. His mother just found her husband beating her son and her reaction is to say, "How could you do this to me?" Yes, it's all about YOU, lady.

The pilot was like a mishmash of a million different 80s movies and I loved it! 

Fun fact: Gene Anthony Ray, who played Leroy Johnson on Fame (both the movie and the tv series) was a street dancer with almost no training, but he showed up to the Fame auditions and was cast based on his potential and talent. When I saw Billy Elliott (the movie), I was pretty unimpressed with the kid's dance skills  but as was shown at the end, sometimes you just need the opportunity to learn and train.

This is why I liked it too and didn’t mind the acting.  I liked the amateurish Fame feel.  I used to watch every week in my electric blue leg warmers.  I played cello because of Lori Singer (and my teacher said my mitts were too big for violin).

I’m in!

[TiffanyNichelle]

14 hours ago, lyric said:

Just curious - were "read for filth" and "giving me / you _____ realness" already in the vernacular in '87?  It took me out of the show as too modern, but I might just be slow on the uptake.

Watch Paris is Burning on Netflix. Practically everything that is said on RuPaul's Drag Race was said there first. I didn't even realize Bob the Drag Queen's Purse First song quoted it until I rewatched the movie about a week ago.

[mtlchick]

14 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

His mother just found her husband beating her son and her reaction is to say, "How could you do this to me?" Yes, it's all about YOU, lady.

I would have to rewatch it, but I thought it implied that his mom was "ok" (as well as she could be) with her son being gay, but dancing and magazines were forbidden because she knew what would happen if her husband found out.  Damon's dad had to hear it from others. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 6/7/2018 at 1:13 PM, mtlchick said:

I would have to rewatch it, but I thought it implied that his mom was "ok" (as well as she could be) with her son being gay, but dancing and magazines were forbidden because she knew what would happen if her husband found out.  Damon's dad had to hear it from others. 

I thought she was ok with him being "artistic" and taking ballet (which they were hiding from the dad), but not with any overt signs of homosexuality, such as the magazine, which was ultimately why the father threw him out, as that was proof positive that he was living a gay lifestyle.

Edited June 10, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I thought she was ok with him being "artistic" and taking ballet (which they were hiding from the dad), but not with any overt signs of homosexuality, such as the magazine, which was ultimately why the father threw him out, as that was proof positive that he was living a gay lifestyle..

Yes I think his Mother was okay “defending” him (dance class and art) so long as there was no definitive proof he was “engaging in foul behavior” or overtly disobeying his father (leaving a ballet studio where his buddies could see). 

The magazine wasn’t “proof” of him actually having sex (I assume that’s what you meant), but like a lot of teen boys he wanted to look at pornography. Not saying he’s not having sex (at first I didn’t realize he was still a minor); but yes it was evidence to his Dad that he was a “you know what”. The mom was a type of parent that would’ve supported a son who was a “confirmed bachelor”.....assumed to be gay but so long as it was never discussed she would pretend it didn’t exist. That poor boy. 

1 hour ago, mtlchick said:

I would have to rewatch it, but I thought it implied that his mom was "ok" (as well as she could be) with her son being gay, but dancing and magazines were forbidden because she knew what would happen if her husband found out.  Damon's dad had to hear it from others. 

The Dad was most likely always an overbearing asshole, and Damon had a bond with his Mom because his Dad was not there for either of them emotionally. I wanted Damon to hit him back when the beating began. 

[Sile]

21 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

The one that really caught my ear was "the shade of it all" which I always hear in Latrice Royale's voice.

Yep that's the one that got me, too.  The others seemed authentic and I'm sure that somebody's said it before (I'd lay money that Dorian Corey probably did), but saying it with the Latrice intonation (or was that just my ears?) took me right out of it.

I liked the show but I don't know if I can handle it emotionally.  It seems obvious that Angel is based on Venus Xtravaganza and every time she's seen so hopeful I find it difficult to separate the character from the tragic reality of Venus' life.

[AgentRXS]

On 6/6/2018 at 10:20 PM, lyric said:

Just curious - were "read for filth" and "giving me / you _____ realness" already in the vernacular in '87?  It took me out of the show as too modern, but I might just be slow on the uptake.

I just watched Paris is Burning tonight on Netflix and was floored that that "read", "realness", "shade" was all being said back then.  I knew that all that slang was borrowed from the LGBT circles, but I had no idea it was 30 year old slang (other than "realness"). So you are not alone in being slow on the uptake.

[LittleIggy]

Angel is so beautiful. Does she model? Pray Tell is awesome. “Do I go to your place of business and slap dicks out of mouths?” ?

[NowVoyager]

I didn't mind the acting, but I think the dancing & choreography need a lot of work. The audition was bad, but the voguing in the dance-off was downright lazy. The clear references to "Paris Is Burning" made me feel emotionally connected to this show from the start. Almost as if I get to find out what happened to the people featured in the documentary after the cameras stopped rolling.

[hoodooznoodooz]

13 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Angel is so beautiful. Does she model? Pray Tell is awesome. “Do I go to your place of business and slap dicks out of mouths?” ?

Pray Tell’s delivery was perfect, and it is a funny line, but I had heard it before. I can’t remember where, maybe on Kids in the Hall?

[Cotypubby]

3 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Pray Tell’s delivery was perfect, and it is a funny line, but I had heard it before. I can’t remember where, maybe on Kids in the Hall?

I've heard in it terms of something a stand up comic would say to a heckler. I don't remember who it was I was watching though.

[ClareWalks]

Unpopular opinion: I liked the dance audition. I don't think the dean was thrilled about the dancing itself, but she saw star quality with how he warmed up and became more confident and interacted with the panel. She probably thought "if this kid got some training he'd be a dynamo." 

[hoodooznoodooz]

18 hours ago, Cotypubby said:

I've heard in it terms of something a stand up comic would say to a heckler. I don't remember who it was I was watching though.

Yes, you are correct! That’s where I heard it before.

[DearEvette]

On 6/6/2018 at 10:29 PM, lyric said:

Oh wow, I missed hearing that one.  Yeah, I know so many great catchphrases originate in the drag scene, but 20-25 years later?  That seems a bit of stretch.

 

Nah.  When a subculture gets discovered by the mainstream, their vernacular is quickly incorporated.  Some idioms get used to death and die out and some endure.  For instance the term '24/7' is widely used, but it actually started out as black street slang in the 80s. I always thought it was a sort of nod to the 7/11 store name, just expanded out.

When disco went back underground in the 80s only to emerge again as house music, I used to go to the Paradise Garage, a dance club in the Village that mostly was mostly a gay club, but a lot of us college kids went just to dance our asses off he great music because during our college parties all of our DJs would play house music,  and I remember hearing the term 'shade' but had zero clue about what it meant -- no context given in random overheard conversation.  It wasn't till I saw Paris is Burning a few years later that I finally got it!

Edited June 10, 2018 by DearEvette

[heckkitty]

On 6/5/2018 at 4:16 PM, Dandesun said:

The first episode felt so lifted from Paris is Burning that I am legit in fear for Angel's life.

 

 

On 6/5/2018 at 6:07 AM, DearEvette said:

Also Angel's character (with her 'what I want' speech) was giving me big Venus Xtravaganza vibes

I know, I had the same thought. Her story is so much like Venus that I was terrified of what would happen when he made her take her panties off. I loved her & Pray the best. More Ball scenes, less boring straight white people, please.  It bugs that the top billed are all white straight (I think) famous people. Blanca should at least be the star; she’s the main character. 

[qtpye]

On 6/8/2018 at 12:41 AM, LittleIggy said:

Angel is so beautiful. Does she model? Pray Tell is awesome. “Do I go to your place of business and slap dicks out of mouths?” ?

At the end when she was dancing and The Running up that Hill song was playing, she looked so ethereally beautiful that it was haunting.

Edited June 12, 2018 by qtpye

[Dee]

Billy Porter is certified scene stealer. Hopefully Pray Tell will serve as the star turn he needs to finally win a long overdue Emmy.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

So much to love, so little actuality to care about.

I usually have great difficulty suspending disbelief.  Not so much on this show.  I am too into the souls laid bare.

Damon;s audition was ridiculous.  Yet I took it as a bit of realism.  A kid like that would not be polished.  Not one bit.  His fluidity and athleticism were enough for me to believe he would get a shot, or is it slot?

I want to be a jidge (tm Cat D.) on a Pray Tell production!  

Blanca is heroic and Elektra simply rules.  I so loved the whole sequence of mopping the museum and showing out the booty at the Ball.  The handcuff accessorizing at the end of that was absolutely delicious.  

[aradia22]

Things I loved...

1) The costumes are TO DIE FOR

2) The two most compelling characters (to me) were the two transwomen

3) That dance audition. I don't know why but I knew what song was going to play as soon as he put the cassette tape in the machine. It was very Flashdance but more joyful. 

4) The white characters are made to own their whiteness. It's not just allowed to be neutral or default. It is also presented as an identity. 

Things I did not love

1) Not enough Billy Porter

2) Some notably weak acting moments

Questions for the future... I can guess where things are going with most of the characters but the businessman from NJ is still a bit of a mystery to me. I can't tell if he just doesn't love his wife and would have searched out any prostitute. Or is he denying his sexuality? Does he see Angel as a woman or is he specifically attracted to her because she is a pre-op transwoman? Also, I'm SO glad he didn't American Psycho her. I got serious Patrick Bateman vibes from him. But maybe that's because I watched ACS: Versace not too long ago.

[aradia22]

Quote

I like this show so far. I didn’t think that Damon’s dance audition would have been good enough for him to get in. Maybe the lady just liked his life story, and didn’t want to him to experience more grief.

It was not well choreographed. I mean, there were moments he just felt awkward and stopped. But I think we were supposed to think they were a little interested in all the moves he had picked up from the ball scene and all the vogueing. It felt slightly appropriative since he had basically just learned it in less than a week if I've got the timeline right. BUT, I think the major thing that won them over was his joy and lack of boundaries. Blanca promised that he had a truth in him and that he would surprise them. There was technical skill in his dancing but there was also joy and exuberance and a willingness to challenge the audience instead of being intimidated by the judges deciding his future. He gave them everything. He didn't hold anything back. Maybe that wouldn't work in the real world but in visual storytelling we're supposed to understand that what could otherwise be deemed messiness or lack of discipline is really what makes him special.

[rollacoaster]

1 hour ago, aradia22 said:

4) The white characters are made to own their whiteness. It's not just allowed to be neutral or default. It is also presented as an identity. 

^^^^THIS^^^^

I appreciated so much that their story was just one of many stories, and not the focal/central story. 

[Scarlett45]

12 hours ago, aradia22 said:

I can't tell if he just doesn't love his wife and would have searched out any prostitute. Or is he denying his sexuality? Does he see Angel as a woman or is he specifically attracted to her because she is a pre-op transwoman? Also, I'm SO glad he didn't American Psycho her. I got serious Patrick Bateman vibes from him. But maybe that's because I watched ACS: Versace not too long ago.

I think he does love his wife, and chose to marry her for the “typical” reasons, but has probably always thought about or been curious about being with a trans woman and now he has the financial means to “test out” some of his fantasies. He’s a “success” at the heteronormative lifestyle so he feels safe. 

He wasn’t just look for a single cis woman in a bar or any old sex worker. He knew where he was going when he went to the area he met Angel. 

[DrSparkles]

I finally found this on netflix!! The 80s...

such great music (alternative, not pop, imo). Such greedy assholes tho. Fuck Reagan. I have so many friends that got the dx & died during this time 😓

[kieyra]

Just checking checked it out and skimmed the thread. I don’t have a lot original to add—for example I’m already worried that Angel is Venus Xtravaganza, which means I will be worried anytime she’s alone with a John. Or her boyfriend, even. 

I’ve watched Paris is Burning enough times, and watched RPDR (from S2, WAY before it became a phenom), to know exactly how many of those catchphrases people don’t realize are 30 years old. Doesn’t bug, because Pray Tell is convincing me.

I don’t know much about dancing, but yes, Damon seemed unpolished—but I don’t think the show was trying to tell us otherwise. 

I do watch a lot of television, but I wasn’t catching the bad acting people have mentioned. For example, I think someone said the actress playing Elektra was bad. I don’t think the actress was bad at all. She was playing a person with no formal acting skills who is, in her every moment, putting on an elaborate act. She was just in her show character’s “character” all the time. I actually found it impressive. 

Aside from the Angel might be Venus thing, am I missing any other obvious parallels? I heard them mention House of Pendavis, I think, but I think the rest of the houses are made up? 

I assume we *must* get some Willi Ninja equivalent.

Edited to add: I’m sure someone has pointed out by now, if not in this thread then later threads, but I think there’s a chance that the character of Elektra is informed by Crystal LaBeija?

Edited June 15, 2019 by kieyra

[rollacoaster]

17 hours ago, kieyra said:

Edited to add: I’m sure someone has pointed out by now, if not in this thread then later threads, but I think there’s a chance that the character of Elektra is informed by Crystal LaBeija?

Some people have pointed that out on here, and I agree. Elektra is living that persona to the hilt. Harsh and cruel as she can be, her flawless style, flair for drama, and flashes of vulnerability throughout the series made me love her. If you can, look up interviews of the actress playing her, her life is amazing. 

Edited June 15, 2019 by rollacoaster
edited for clarity

[Blakeston]

On 6/14/2019 at 9:45 PM, kieyra said:

Just checking checked it out and skimmed the thread. I don’t have a lot original to add—for example I’m already worried that Angel is Venus Xtravaganza, which means I will be worried anytime she’s alone with a John. Or her boyfriend, even. 

I’ve watched Paris is Burning enough times, and watched RPDR (from S2, WAY before it became a phenom), to know exactly how many of those catchphrases people don’t realize are 30 years old. Doesn’t bug, because Pray Tell is convincing me.

I don’t know much about dancing, but yes, Damon seemed unpolished—but I don’t think the show was trying to tell us otherwise. 

I do watch a lot of television, but I wasn’t catching the bad acting people have mentioned. For example, I think someone said the actress playing Elektra was bad. I don’t think the actress was bad at all. She was playing a person with no formal acting skills who is, in her every moment, putting on an elaborate act. She was just in her show character’s “character” all the time. I actually found it impressive. 

Aside from the Angel might be Venus thing, am I missing any other obvious parallels? I heard them mention House of Pendavis, I think, but I think the rest of the houses are made up? 

I assume we *must* get some Willi Ninja equivalent.

Edited to add: I’m sure someone has pointed out by now, if not in this thread then later threads, but I think there’s a chance that the character of Elektra is informed by Crystal LaBeija?

Wow, having watched this, there's no question in my mind that Elektra's way of speaking is based on Crystal Labeija. 

That said, it also drives home for me just how wooden and "off" Elektra's line readings are. This is how you speak in that affected style while still sounding like a human being and not a poorly-programmed robot.

[kieyra]

11 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Wow, having watched this, there's no question in my mind that Elektra's way of speaking is based on Crystal Labeija. 

That said, it also drives home for me just how wooden and "off" Elektra's line readings are. This is how you speak in that affected style while still sounding like a human being and not a poorly-programmed robot.

I’m just now on episode four and starting to see what people have been complaining about, but only because Elektra was alone with her boyfriend/sugar daddy and I expected to see the facade drop.