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S02.E07: Les Ecorches

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I wonder if MiB brought his own cowboy outfit with him and had it lined with the future equivalent of Kevlar.

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15 hours ago, jbrecken said:

I wonder if MiB brought his own cowboy outfit with him and had it lined with the future equivalent of Kevlar.

I LOVE this idea but, alas, it would not make sense since the guns in Westworld aren't supposed to be able to hurt humans.  The fact that they now can surprised and (initially) delighted the MiB (the sick MoFo).  But since all they are supposed to do is sting (like MiB's daughter did to her "red-shirt" human suitor) it would make no sense for him to have had a kevlar-lined costume made in advance.

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On 6/4/2018 at 11:32 PM, grawlix said:

I think the lights are suppose to provide a visual indication to your team mates of where the danger is coming from.  This allows the other members to react quicker than with verbal communication.   The question I have is why didn't the vest detect the hosts wearing the dead response team's vests.  Couldn't Goldberg tell the team the location of the people/hosts wearing the vests?

It’s quite possible (probable even) the vests’ detection system incorporates some kind of IFF (Identify Friend/Foe) technology, so team members aren’t triggering each other’s vests every time they move - in which case, any host wearing such a vest would be effectively cloaked from detection.  Only way to pick them up would be if they were accompanied by hosts who weren’t wearing vests.

On 6/5/2018 at 3:33 PM, Ellaria Sand said:

Off topic now, Bernard's clothes changed when he went into that house with Ford in the simulated reality. He went from grayish tweedy suit +white shirt to dark suit + blue shirt. I have no idea what any of that means but it is noticeable.

I’ve always kind of assumed in this respect, Westworld was taking a page from the original Matrix; when a mind (host or human) is projected  into a VR construct, that mind’s VR construct of itself as a physical image conforms by default into whatever self-image the human/host has of itself.  If I were the projectee, for example, I expect my VR appearance would be about 20 years younger, about 40 pounds lighter, and have a helluva lot more - and longer - hair.  ;)

On 6/6/2018 at 4:37 AM, Dame sans merci said:

Well, let's take Angela as an example. Her body was destroyed in the explosion. Previously, they could have used the back-up stored in the cradle to imprint her 'mind' into a new pearl and print her a new body. But the back-up is gone, so she's permanently gone too.

No, it doesn't mean automatic permanent death in cases where the brain might be intact (so presumably Clementine and Lawrence could be brought back with the right patching up, and somebody with a tablet). But it does mean that the 'killed' host needs somebody to bring them back. And most of them aren't engaging with the humans left alive who could do so, or have their stats adjusted to lower their mortality response. In fact, lots of the hosts aren't even awake enough to consider that their mortality stats could be changed.

 

Thing I don’t understand is why Delos Corp. would be restoring from backups anyway.  Seems like it would be simpler, cheaper and a WHOLE lot less problematic to maintain virgin “Gold” installs for every host personality, untainted by previous memories and experiences - which I thought were supposed to be purged anyway, at the conclusion of each story loop.  

If Delos Corp. had employed a wipe-and-virgin-reinstall methodology, in fact, none of the recent unpleasantness would have ever happened - which would also mean there’d be no point to the TV series, but there ya go.  ;>

On 6/4/2018 at 8:17 PM, The Companion said:

Meh. The allure of eternal life might be worth the risk, particularly if you were sick or dying or otherwise limited. You have a bot who says: "It's me! They took me into a room and hooked me up to a machine and the next thing I remembered, I was walking up in my own body, but younger and healthier." Their loved ones also assure you that the bot is the same person. Same personality, same memories, same outlook. They tell you the mcguffin transfers you to another place, which is a special database perfectly tailored to you. How do you prove otherwise?

 

It really goes back to the question of what makes us us. What are we? Is there a soul, or are we just a collection of memories and thought patterns and electrical impulses? Personally, I think we are more, and it sounds like you do too. There is something more. However, I don't think everyone sees it that way. And if one was dying or sick or vain enough, perhaps the allure of a healthy, possibly custom designed body is enough. It's better than nothing. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the recap is also absolutely correct. A surviving loved one is going to have a huge temptation to move heaven and earth to bring back their loved one, and they are going to be likely to be willing to accept a substitute if it is good enough. 

 

The other, more sinister use, would be to replace someone without anyone's knowledge. It's not what they are selling, but it wouldn't be, would it? How much money could you make by controlling rich and powerful people for a few years and then having them meet with an accident before failure to age becomes noticeable?

Some interesting points in here - but I’ll carry my comments to another thread, so they won’t get marooned in this episode.  :)

 

On 6/5/2018 at 9:25 AM, DarkRaichu said:

IIRC the original plan was to dump the data to Abernathy's core and he was supposed to walk out via the train unassumingly. 

My memory is apparently failing me - when was such a plan ever revealed in the show?

Quote

My question is how the heck did Theresa/Charlotte dump the data into Abernathy to begin with?  The body was in cold storage and the body needed to be hooked up to the system for a long period of time since the data was so large.  

Here’s my Abernathy crab:

  1. Abernathy’s initial mental spazzing-out issues had absolutely zero to do with any corporate espionage downloads or other such dreck; they were due to his seeing a photograph of the outside-WestWorld real world which had been inadvertently dropped by a guest.  For some reason (the show appeared to allude to an association with Ford’s newest “reverie” update) Abernathy’s perception of the photo image bypassed the normal “ignore that which causes internal conflict and distress” filters built into the hosts and sent him on the path of becoming possibly the first fully-woke host in WW - were it not for a detour down a dark well leading to insanity, and his eventual lobotomization.  BTW - interesting to note Dolores’ “ignore” filters were still in full operation at this times Abernathy showed Dolores the photo asking what she saw, and her response was “nothing special”.
  2. As was noted before - we never saw Abernathy being reclaimed from cold storage and/or repurposed into a walking super duper thumb drive.  When?  Who?  How?  Inquiring minds want to know.

Personally, I’m wondering if Charlotte (and by extension us) is mistaken or has been misled into thinking Abernathy is her Holy Grail data receptacle - a loud, distracting red herring designed by Ford to protect his true treasure trove of data.  

Which introduces another confounding conundrum: Where - or who - is Ford’s true receptacle?

  • Bernard?  An excellent possibility - if one overlooks the fact Ford himself tried to engineer Bernard’s permanent demise.  Doubtful Ford would endanger his precious IP in such a manner.
  • Dolores?  Again doubtful; by Ford’s use of Dolores to engineer his own demise and the subsequent guest massacre, Ford has guaranteed Dolores is the primary target for human retribution.  All his work could be erased by a pissed-off Security staffer with an RPG.
  • Angela?  Hope not.  If so - whoops!
  • Charlotte?  Hmmmm....
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5 minutes ago, Nashville said:
  1. As was noted before - we never saw Abernathy being reclaimed from cold storage and/or repurposed into a walking super duper thumb drive.  When?  Who?  How?  Inquiring minds want to know.
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"Trace Decay" S01E08

Charlotte Hale brings Lee Sizemore to Cold Storage. They find the host that played Peter Abernathy and was lobotomized. Charlotte tells Sizemore that she is uploading 35 years of data to the host. Hale tells Sizemore to give Abernathy just enough of a personality to enable him to get on the train with the guests at the MonorailTerminal in the Westworld Mesa Hub and leave Westworld. (How Hale plans to remove the explosive in the C6 vertebra is not discussed.)

 

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@piequinn35 - thank you very VERY much.  That’s been bugging the hell outta me.

Gotta wonder, though; what are the odds Charlotte would pick at random that one particular host as her walking Bernoulli drive...?  ;)

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10 hours ago, Nashville said:

Personally, I’m wondering if Charlotte (and by extension us) is mistaken or has been misled into thinking Abernathy is her Holy Grail data receptacle - a loud, distracting red herring designed by Ford to protect his true treasure trove of data.  

Which introduces another confounding conundrum: Where - or who - is Ford’s true receptacle?

  • Bernard?  An excellent possibility - if one overlooks the fact Ford himself tried to engineer Bernard’s permanent demise.  Doubtful Ford would endanger his precious IP in such a manner.
  • Dolores?  Again doubtful; by Ford’s use of Dolores to engineer his own demise and the subsequent guest massacre, Ford has guaranteed Dolores is the primary target for human retribution.  All his work could be erased by a pissed-off Security staffer with an RPG.
  • Angela?  Hope not.  If so - whoops!
  • Charlotte?  Hmmmm....

My suggestion here would be Maeve, who we know was re-programmed to reach the mainland...

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13 hours ago, Nashville said:

what are the odds Charlotte would pick at random that one particular host as her walking Bernoulli drive...?  ;)

Yeah, that's one of those things that you can't look at too closely or the whole story falls apart.  There was a whole room full of decommissioned 'bots and she just happens to pick the unit that used to play the father of Dolores -- one of the key 'bots (if not THE key 'bot) in the robot insurrection that arises only a few hours later -- as the mobile thumb drive for the data she's stealing.

But, then again, if implausible coincidences were good enough for Shakespeare and Charles Dickens then I guess they're good enough for Westworld.

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Remember when Hale told Security#2 Strand? + Bernard (ep03) "Where's Abernathy?" so we thought she found Peter (at the Fort) then she lost him again? lol

so she was talking about Dolores not Peter because that time (ep07) Dolores has already taken the drive out of Peter.

 

PS: I always look at this timeline coz this show always confuses me

 

Edited by piequinn35
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1 hour ago, piequinn35 said:

Remember when Hale told Security#2 Strand? + Bernard (ep03) "Where's Abernathy?" so we thought she found Peter (at the Fort) then she lost him again? lol

so she was talking about Dolores not Peter because that time (ep07) Dolores has already taken the drive out of Peter.

 

PS: I always look at this timeline coz this show always confuses me

 

What’s disturbing to me isn’t how much I had wrong in the show’s timeline, but how much I had right.  How much of my total mental capacity is being taken up by a damn tv show…!?!?

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Fun note about the scene where Stubbs tries to deck Teddy. Poor Luke Hemsworth hadn't had shoulder surgery yet and that was as high as he could lift his arm to throw the punch.  He apologized on Twitter for the poor attempt, LOL.

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"When the great library burned, the first ten thousand years of stories were reduced to ash. But those stories never really perished; they became a new story. The story of the fire itself." Ford is standing against one shining red wall as Bernard looks mad and listens. "A man's urge to take things of beauty and strike the match." 

I mean, I just find this pretentious. It's not that he's wrong, it's just that it's so over-written. I remember the same sentiment in a movie I watched a long time ago. I don't even remember the movie's name or who was in it or what it was about. But there was infidelity in an established marriage and the wife said something like, "I watch our kids. They'll spend all day with their lego building a giant castle. They'll spend hours building something amazing. And then at the end of the day, they knock it all down like it's nothing". 

And that always stayed with me. Whenever I see us gut great institutions we've built up over many decades like kids knocking down their lego castle, I'm reminded of that quote because it's so damn true.

It's possible the history of mankind is of working together to build something great, only to burn it all to the fucking ground. I find it depressing that at the moment we're only driven to tell the latter part of that story. It says something about our general disillusionment with the world.

Re robots and consciousness - if you wouldn't sign up for a robot to go around after your death that behaved exactly like you but wasn't you, would you teleport if the technology was available? Because it's the same thing.

Edited by AudienceofOne

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